Merged: Big changes for Qantas cadets
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: utopia
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So whats the problem with gaining 500 hours PIC to apply to QF as a DE? What maybe 10-12months in GA.
Coke..... Mate some of us Gen Ys do have a work ethic and dont mind getting our hands dirty to gain invaluable experience and pay is increasing. For your information first year graduates leaving uni only earn round $40000, whereas a grade 3 instructor can be earning now up to $45000. The cadet seniority issue will always be contentious under the current plan. However to say cadets "deserve it" .....is absolute dribble. Example a cadet gets employed 01 JAN 09 and gets placed in industry placement flying for Qlink. A DE FO for Qlink after working in the qantas group for 5 years decides to make a change and starts 02 JAN 09 flying as an SO for mainline. After 2 years the cadet is taken into mainline. Who has the greater seniority the cadet whose been working for Qlink for 2 years or the DE SO whose being working for the qantas group for 7 years??????
Is this fair and whose more deserving????
For all those
ing out there about the cadetship MAN UP and grow some balls and get some experience. Hopefully, in the future the cadetship program will be a more equitable system and provide for a more level playing field in regards to seniority. And if it doesnt I hope it will die a quick death.
Tsalta.....my thoughts exactly.
Coke..... Mate some of us Gen Ys do have a work ethic and dont mind getting our hands dirty to gain invaluable experience and pay is increasing. For your information first year graduates leaving uni only earn round $40000, whereas a grade 3 instructor can be earning now up to $45000. The cadet seniority issue will always be contentious under the current plan. However to say cadets "deserve it" .....is absolute dribble. Example a cadet gets employed 01 JAN 09 and gets placed in industry placement flying for Qlink. A DE FO for Qlink after working in the qantas group for 5 years decides to make a change and starts 02 JAN 09 flying as an SO for mainline. After 2 years the cadet is taken into mainline. Who has the greater seniority the cadet whose been working for Qlink for 2 years or the DE SO whose being working for the qantas group for 7 years??????
Is this fair and whose more deserving????For all those
ing out there about the cadetship MAN UP and grow some balls and get some experience. Hopefully, in the future the cadetship program will be a more equitable system and provide for a more level playing field in regards to seniority. And if it doesnt I hope it will die a quick death.Tsalta.....my thoughts exactly.
sherlock, thanks for stating the blinking obvious. By the way the EBA isnt dependent on the cadetship programs existence.
I meant the seniority system is the one thats staying. Im sure in the next EBA, there will be no provision for cadet seniority.
Who said anything about the EBA being dependant on the cadetship
Geez Bobo....getting a little emotional arent we??
Who said anything about the EBA being dependant on the cadetship
Geez Bobo....getting a little emotional arent we??
Join Date: Aug 2008
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The quicker this form of QF Captain nepotism gets shelved the safer for us all.
Who requires another arrogant muppet who will expect to be called Captain in 20 years in this industry. Haven't we got enough w***kers already.
Wasn't it another nepotism Cadet FO who nearly drove a 737 into the hills near Canberra a few years ago?
Who requires another arrogant muppet who will expect to be called Captain in 20 years in this industry. Haven't we got enough w***kers already.
Wasn't it another nepotism Cadet FO who nearly drove a 737 into the hills near Canberra a few years ago?
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Chesley Sullenberger was a US Airforce pilot prior to joining the airlines.
I dont think Chesley needed some time in Australian GA to get some good aviation experience.
I dont think Chesley needed some time in Australian GA to get some good aviation experience.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Definitions:
Suitability:The quality of having the properties that are right for a specific purpose.
Experience:The accumulation of knowledge or skill that results from direct participation in events or activities.
Hmmmm, maybe both????????
That's it Nunc..................Suitably Experienced
Suitability:The quality of having the properties that are right for a specific purpose.
Experience:The accumulation of knowledge or skill that results from direct participation in events or activities.
Hmmmm, maybe both????????
That's it Nunc..................Suitably Experienced
Last edited by Bo777; 19th Jan 2009 at 10:38.
Join Date: Jul 2005
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gday krusty,
I guess at this stage its still the seniority...how that is changed under the new EBA (if we ever get one) is anyone's guess. The general consesus though, is that it will be abolished.
Cheers
I guess at this stage its still the seniority...how that is changed under the new EBA (if we ever get one) is anyone's guess. The general consesus though, is that it will be abolished.
Cheers
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industry employers?
Why would operators employ cadets who they know are not going to stay long. It costs money to introduce a new pilot into the system, and operators need to plan for the long term. Temporary pilots are an added expense and degrade the operation. Experience levels are important.
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"The general consesus though, is that it will be abolished."
What Rot ! It may be the consensus amongst those SO's who have only been in the company a short time and want it all now ! But company wide there is strong support for seniority. Seniority will change a little to make it fairer but it will always be here.
What Rot ! It may be the consensus amongst those SO's who have only been in the company a short time and want it all now ! But company wide there is strong support for seniority. Seniority will change a little to make it fairer but it will always be here.
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Anyone see the Full Back Page advertisement from Qantas about the Qantas Cadetship, in the back page of the Learning to Fly magazine currently selling at newsagents?
It reads,
It reads as if Qantas trains you. This is not the case, General Flying Service/Swinburne train you and you have to pay for it. Also the 09 commitment to the future has the ab initio program/commercial programs cancelled.
It reads,
The Qantas Cadet Pilot Program.
Our commitment to the future.
The Qantas Cadet Pilot Program is a unique opportunity to embark on the career of a lifetime. Successful applicants will be trained to become qualified commercial pilots by the airline whose pilots are respected worldwide. So prepare your career for take-off. For more information visit qantas.com
Our commitment to the future.
The Qantas Cadet Pilot Program is a unique opportunity to embark on the career of a lifetime. Successful applicants will be trained to become qualified commercial pilots by the airline whose pilots are respected worldwide. So prepare your career for take-off. For more information visit qantas.com
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Let them have one thing.....
I feel it is unfair that cadets cop so much heat.
How many of you can honestly say the cadetship was a terrible option when you started out? Did you not apply, or where you not accepted?
Bitterness towards cadets is clearly never going away, but I would like to quash a few common misconceptions.....
- There is only 1 cadet in the remaining group of 32 cadets who has a relative currently employed by Qantas. It is by no means a guaranteed position if you have family in the airline.
I know of a 747 captain's son who was not successful.
- Cadets do NOT get a free ride. After getting through Qantas' skills test, psychometric assessment, medical, reference checks and panel interview, then once accepted there are many hoops to jump through.
You are subject to harsh evaluations after every phase of testing, and without any guarantee of a job in Qantas, nor in CIPP, it is like walking a tightrope for the whole course.
If finally eligible for CIPP, you are likely to be waitlisted for that too. Then you may receive a phone call advising you that your industry placement is to fly in Darwin for a minimum of 2 years.
This is still subject to criticism from Qantas Pilot Recruitment and the industry partner also.
If the time is right, and you have been successful, you may be offered a position in Qantas. .... AGAIN, STILL NO GUARANTEE...
If none of this is comparable to 'doing the hard yards'. I don't know what is.
Cadet seniority is the one privilege that a cadet works for. That is the motivation to push them through a grueling course packed into the shortest possible timeframe.
Let them have one thing....
(NO, I am not a cadet, I am 'doing the hard yards' as such in GA, I have met many great cadets and believe that if you were given the opportunity why wouldn't you take it)
How many of you can honestly say the cadetship was a terrible option when you started out? Did you not apply, or where you not accepted?
Bitterness towards cadets is clearly never going away, but I would like to quash a few common misconceptions.....
- There is only 1 cadet in the remaining group of 32 cadets who has a relative currently employed by Qantas. It is by no means a guaranteed position if you have family in the airline.
I know of a 747 captain's son who was not successful.
- Cadets do NOT get a free ride. After getting through Qantas' skills test, psychometric assessment, medical, reference checks and panel interview, then once accepted there are many hoops to jump through.
You are subject to harsh evaluations after every phase of testing, and without any guarantee of a job in Qantas, nor in CIPP, it is like walking a tightrope for the whole course.
If finally eligible for CIPP, you are likely to be waitlisted for that too. Then you may receive a phone call advising you that your industry placement is to fly in Darwin for a minimum of 2 years.
This is still subject to criticism from Qantas Pilot Recruitment and the industry partner also.
If the time is right, and you have been successful, you may be offered a position in Qantas. .... AGAIN, STILL NO GUARANTEE...
If none of this is comparable to 'doing the hard yards'. I don't know what is.
Cadet seniority is the one privilege that a cadet works for. That is the motivation to push them through a grueling course packed into the shortest possible timeframe.
Let them have one thing....
(NO, I am not a cadet, I am 'doing the hard yards' as such in GA, I have met many great cadets and believe that if you were given the opportunity why wouldn't you take it)
I've got a question for you cleared. What do the majority of Cadets do whilst waiting for the Call up? Do they sit around by the phone, do they occupy their time, and supplement their income (whatever that may be) by working at at Maccas', or do they go out and do the hard yards while they wait? It's a genuine question for you seem to have a handle on what these young people go through.
The reason I ask, is that if most choose to get out amongst it (as they should if they are remotely interested in the profession), then has the QF Cadetship merely become a vehicle in which a candidate can "Reserve" a spot in the group for a later date!
If that little perk is taken away, then what's the point!?
The reason I ask, is that if most choose to get out amongst it (as they should if they are remotely interested in the profession), then has the QF Cadetship merely become a vehicle in which a candidate can "Reserve" a spot in the group for a later date!
If that little perk is taken away, then what's the point!?
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cleared,
your a dreamer mate, it must be real hard waiting around for your job at qf....
walking the tightrope, don't you mean ticking boxes....
please, no more cadet hard luck stories.....your breaking my heart!
your a dreamer mate, it must be real hard waiting around for your job at qf....
walking the tightrope, don't you mean ticking boxes....
please, no more cadet hard luck stories.....your breaking my heart!
"(NO, I am not a cadet, I am 'doing the hard yards' as such in GA, I have met many great cadets and believe that if you were given the opportunity why wouldn't you take it)"
...so did you fail then?
...so did you fail then?
