Merged: ASA Staff Shortage
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Planet Plazbot
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just checked the Notams and it appears that the routes in from Singas, Bangkok, Indonesia, Middle east etc etc etc are TIBA from 1 am till about 3:30. That is peak hour. This really has got to stop. Airservices MUST acknowledge that they have screwed the pooch and start enticing their staff to want to come to work at all times. When I first started, I would have been embarrassed to see a TIBA Notam. Now I just could not give a sh!t.
I actually work on that group but do not hold those ratings and I can assure you that it is not through any covert industrial action that this has occured. Tops has a wealth of guys falling over themselves wanting to work OTs. When Tops goes TIBA, it is due to nothing more than the rubber band breaking.
I actually work on that group but do not hold those ratings and I can assure you that it is not through any covert industrial action that this has occured. Tops has a wealth of guys falling over themselves wanting to work OTs. When Tops goes TIBA, it is due to nothing more than the rubber band breaking.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hypothetically (for now), how competitive would it be for a certain military controller with joint user experience to get a job at Brisbane Tower? (Ie - I know it's fairly easy to make the switch, the question is how easy it is to go to tower and not en route, and to even select which tower).
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Here
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I actually work on that group but do not hold those ratings and I can assure you
Even though it shouldn't happen, you will be counted as one of the controllers who did not make himself available and the email sent to the airlines by way of explanation will include you in it.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dubai
Age: 44
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
baileys, not saying it is true and has happened. Just that we don't believe it won't happen as our trust in management is below zero. So why take the chance? Especially when us doing constant overtime is the only way the system will stay close to afloat for the next few years.
Geez they are useless.
tobzalp said
Now this is really stupid. Mind you not having a suitable contact detail listed with the employer is just as silly. If we could have an adult-adult relationship, trouble is both parties want to all the toys in the sand-pit (perhaps not the best analogy during a staffing crisis with staff going to the UAE).
At the end of the day it appears that ASA continue to treat staff with contempt, when will they ever learn...
They opened the phone book as my number is not listed and called all of the same surname until they found a relative that would give them my number. I wish this was made up but it is unfortunately true. Happened 2 weeks ago. NOT cool.
At the end of the day it appears that ASA continue to treat staff with contempt, when will they ever learn...
Join Date: May 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Come December21 (expiration of the EBA) ASA are going to be in even more trouble staffing wise. Controllers have been working rosters outside of Principles of Rostering (PORs) under Facilitative Arrangements (FAs).
These FAs have allowed ASA to cover rosters with less staff and controllers to work longer shifts to get more time off. Personally, I don't see the benefits. We have access to more days off, but longer term we are more fatigued. ASA (TFN) have become dependent on them in their drive for cost cutting, and it has masked the lack of workforce planning.
On December 21, these FAs expire. ASA have struggled to adequately staff with these FAs and have no idea how to fill the rosters without them. My concern is that ASA will allow the situation to develop where they will have to roster airspace closures with all the angst that will engender.
All the unfulfillable promises that the bureaucrats have promised the industry will now be blamed on the controllers. They will bundle up all the problems that mismanagement has caused, SDE, lack of workforce planning, ageing demographic, non delivery of RNPs, UPRs etc etc, and lay them at the feet of the controllers.
I am led to understand that TFN has some in principle agreement to take a new ATS system that Thales is building for the Singaporeans, and build a single 'super' centre somewhere? Canberra?2012?
The result being that the turmoil that will envelope Australia come Dec21 will be blamed not on the lack of long-term planning, and short term bonus driven management but on the controllers who have been carrying the system for years.
TFN and co. will then be able to leap into the fray and declare that, yet again, "That we have a plan".This to appease the minister and industry, and it is , yet again, someone elses (controllers)fault.
This is the type of spin and politicking that TFN and co. get paid the big bucks to pull. The provision of a properly resourced Air Navigation Service Provider with long term planning should be somewhere on the list. Unfortunately it seems to be behind bonuses and personal corporate survival.
Time will tell.
These FAs have allowed ASA to cover rosters with less staff and controllers to work longer shifts to get more time off. Personally, I don't see the benefits. We have access to more days off, but longer term we are more fatigued. ASA (TFN) have become dependent on them in their drive for cost cutting, and it has masked the lack of workforce planning.
On December 21, these FAs expire. ASA have struggled to adequately staff with these FAs and have no idea how to fill the rosters without them. My concern is that ASA will allow the situation to develop where they will have to roster airspace closures with all the angst that will engender.
All the unfulfillable promises that the bureaucrats have promised the industry will now be blamed on the controllers. They will bundle up all the problems that mismanagement has caused, SDE, lack of workforce planning, ageing demographic, non delivery of RNPs, UPRs etc etc, and lay them at the feet of the controllers.
I am led to understand that TFN has some in principle agreement to take a new ATS system that Thales is building for the Singaporeans, and build a single 'super' centre somewhere? Canberra?2012?
The result being that the turmoil that will envelope Australia come Dec21 will be blamed not on the lack of long-term planning, and short term bonus driven management but on the controllers who have been carrying the system for years.
TFN and co. will then be able to leap into the fray and declare that, yet again, "That we have a plan".This to appease the minister and industry, and it is , yet again, someone elses (controllers)fault.
This is the type of spin and politicking that TFN and co. get paid the big bucks to pull. The provision of a properly resourced Air Navigation Service Provider with long term planning should be somewhere on the list. Unfortunately it seems to be behind bonuses and personal corporate survival.
Time will tell.
Last edited by max1; 23rd Sep 2008 at 02:10.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Columbia
Posts: 67
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would be interesting to see who staffs a super centre in CB, those in the NOC shop perhaps.
No disrespect to those that live in CB, but I don't think so!
They don't have the staff to even implement the concept let alone ghost a third centre.
Great rumour though
No disrespect to those that live in CB, but I don't think so!
They don't have the staff to even implement the concept let alone ghost a third centre.
Great rumour though
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: On a different Island
Age: 52
Posts: 311
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Who says the supa centre will be in Canberra?
The NOC is not the front end it's ops central; the eventual plan is for it to have fingers on every pulse; but never 'talking' to pilots. There are no comms facilities available or planned. The displays they have a rudimentary at best and certainly not fit for moving tin; even the ones on order won't change that. Think Eurocontrol's central flow unit... Strategic planning hub, not tactical.
More interesting are the rumours of 'contracts' signed for new ATC systems that may accompany a single location; RAAF and TCUs all into a single unit; with growth potential for 'global/regional domination' (picture Dr Evil sucking little finger). I know you can do it hempy..?
The NOC is not the front end it's ops central; the eventual plan is for it to have fingers on every pulse; but never 'talking' to pilots. There are no comms facilities available or planned. The displays they have a rudimentary at best and certainly not fit for moving tin; even the ones on order won't change that. Think Eurocontrol's central flow unit... Strategic planning hub, not tactical.
More interesting are the rumours of 'contracts' signed for new ATC systems that may accompany a single location; RAAF and TCUs all into a single unit; with growth potential for 'global/regional domination' (picture Dr Evil sucking little finger). I know you can do it hempy..?
Blocka said
Signing a contract and paying a hefty deposit could explain why the ASA finanical report will indicate a dip in the profit.
But seriously, I don't think any Government Department, GBE, or whatever quasi-corporate entity ASA are disguised as at the moment (pending a name change) would be able to sign a contract for such a huge expense ($120m.) Or has the Tower Technology Project forged ahead in leaps and bounds and there is clear acknowledgement that the Towers are really the centre of the universe!!
More interesting are the rumours of 'contracts' signed for new ATC systems
But seriously, I don't think any Government Department, GBE, or whatever quasi-corporate entity ASA are disguised as at the moment (pending a name change) would be able to sign a contract for such a huge expense ($120m.) Or has the Tower Technology Project forged ahead in leaps and bounds and there is clear acknowledgement that the Towers are really the centre of the universe!!
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NSW- 3rd world state
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One centre, maybe but not likely.
I am led to understand that TFN has some in principle agreement to take a new ATS system that Thales is building for the Singaporeans, and build a single 'super' centre somewhere? Canberra?2012?
Who says Australia Centre has to be in Australia
Eventually a compromise was reached and we have what we have. Only an opinion but would be very surprised if Gov. allows one centre after all that has happened but you never know.
Again, please don't rip my headoff.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and build a single 'super' centre somewhere? Canberra?2012?
------------------------------------------------------------------
How about Hermannsburg? Can't get much more "central" than there!
------------------------------------------------------------------
How about Hermannsburg? Can't get much more "central" than there!
I know my prevous post may seem like "twaddle" , but the more I think about it ...
If our staffing problems really do look to be long term .... could ATC Aus be done remotely? Our gear, via satelite links.
I know the Kiwis are always casting entreprenurial eyes this way. We do Honiara remotely, don't we? Couldn't someone else do the reverse?
Maybe enroute only? Keep the Towers staffed by Aussies.
Political and Security issues aside, could it be that desperate that we have to consider this option?
If our staffing problems really do look to be long term .... could ATC Aus be done remotely? Our gear, via satelite links.
I know the Kiwis are always casting entreprenurial eyes this way. We do Honiara remotely, don't we? Couldn't someone else do the reverse?
Maybe enroute only? Keep the Towers staffed by Aussies.
Political and Security issues aside, could it be that desperate that we have to consider this option?
Join Date: May 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 606
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The idea is to build a new 'super' centre, not put it in 'BS' castle.
If you check, you will find you signed something agreeing to be moved anywhere in Australia. Look at all the tower newbies that got moved to fill holes under the 'career progression' model.
I agree with Direct No Speed, if this crowd reckon they can do it by 2012, I would add 10+ years to this number.Remember SDE was invented in late 2005 and in November 2006, an implementation date of Nov 2007 was decided upon. Here we are nearly 2 years down the track of a 1 year project and no end in sight.
TAAATS upgrades used to be numbered 5.2 etc. This was supposed to mean the second update of 2005. When these were then running 2 years behind schedule they started renaming them Version 12/13 etc to save embarrasment.
I didn't say the idea would work, just that they have a concept of Plan F ready to be rolled out to a gullible Board and the Media.
He's not the Messiah, he's just a very naughty boy.
If you check, you will find you signed something agreeing to be moved anywhere in Australia. Look at all the tower newbies that got moved to fill holes under the 'career progression' model.
I agree with Direct No Speed, if this crowd reckon they can do it by 2012, I would add 10+ years to this number.Remember SDE was invented in late 2005 and in November 2006, an implementation date of Nov 2007 was decided upon. Here we are nearly 2 years down the track of a 1 year project and no end in sight.
TAAATS upgrades used to be numbered 5.2 etc. This was supposed to mean the second update of 2005. When these were then running 2 years behind schedule they started renaming them Version 12/13 etc to save embarrasment.
I didn't say the idea would work, just that they have a concept of Plan F ready to be rolled out to a gullible Board and the Media.
He's not the Messiah, he's just a very naughty boy.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Sydney
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They don't like spending money at the best of times! Can you see them paying to relocate 600 staff!
And don't forget, they may say that you signed something promising to move anywhere in the country, but if theyu said I had to move, I would just leave... So would most I imagine.
And don't forget, they may say that you signed something promising to move anywhere in the country, but if theyu said I had to move, I would just leave... So would most I imagine.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
but if theyu said I had to move, I would just leave... So would most I imagine.
Last edited by nafai; 24th Sep 2008 at 11:55. Reason: blue orchids sense of humour