Merged: ASA Staff Shortage
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I would live to give a huge 'ahahaha' etc to that but you know what? This whole thing is just beyond a joke now.
TIBA tonight from 1345-1945 north of Brisbane to Rocky.
TIBA tonight from 1345-1945 north of Brisbane to Rocky.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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TIBA tonight from 1345-1945 north of Brisbane to Rocky.
for christsakes, the airlines overstaff to cover unexpected absences, but not AsA - they 'promote' 107 controllers away from moving traffic, and then try make the remaining ATC's work even harder and never have two days off in a row.
and now AsA put out TIBA notams citing "staff non-avialability" - I notice they don't NOTAM when airspace was kept open by someone agreeing further fatigue themselves on yet another overtime shift.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Can you say..."I wasn't available because it was my day off"?
What would be the repercussions if you did?
What would be the repercussions if you did?
1.There is an obligation on air traffic controllers to perform reasonable overtime where operational requirements make it necessary.
2.That obligation entails an expectation that ATCs will be contactable by telephone and if calls are missed, to call back promptly after the call from Airservices has been received. An ATC should only remain uncontactable or unable to respond promptly where there are special reasons for this being so.
3.Subject to paragraphs 4 and 5, ATCs will agree to work an additional shift or hours when requested to do so.
4.If the ATC has already worked an average of one or more additional hours shift per fortnight in the 30 day period preceding the request or no less than an average of 7 additional hours per fortnight in the 30 day period preceding the request, they shall be entitled to decline the request.
5.Further, Airservices will not require an ATC to perform an additional shift or additional hours if Airservices is satisfied that there are substantial and compelling reasons which make it reasonable for them not to be required to do so.
6.If an ATC does not agree to a request to work an additional shift and neither of the conditions mentioned in paragraphs 4 or 5 exist, Airservices shall be entitled to take appropriate disciplinary action in relation to their conduct.
2.That obligation entails an expectation that ATCs will be contactable by telephone and if calls are missed, to call back promptly after the call from Airservices has been received. An ATC should only remain uncontactable or unable to respond promptly where there are special reasons for this being so.
3.Subject to paragraphs 4 and 5, ATCs will agree to work an additional shift or hours when requested to do so.
4.If the ATC has already worked an average of one or more additional hours shift per fortnight in the 30 day period preceding the request or no less than an average of 7 additional hours per fortnight in the 30 day period preceding the request, they shall be entitled to decline the request.
5.Further, Airservices will not require an ATC to perform an additional shift or additional hours if Airservices is satisfied that there are substantial and compelling reasons which make it reasonable for them not to be required to do so.
6.If an ATC does not agree to a request to work an additional shift and neither of the conditions mentioned in paragraphs 4 or 5 exist, Airservices shall be entitled to take appropriate disciplinary action in relation to their conduct.
so in September AsA "softened" the overtime proposal to:
4.3 ADDITIONAL HOURS
4.3.1 Under this agreement each employee has an obligation to work a reasonable amount of additional hours if Airservices considers that the working of additional hours is necessary to meet operational and/or business requirements.
4.3.2 In relation to requests to work additional hours generally, your manager will give consideration to the impact of additional hours and endeavour to accommodate your preferences. In relation to particular requests to work additional hours it will be relevant to take into account the following factors:
(a) any risk to your health and safety from working the additional hours requested;
(b) your personal circumstances, including compelling family responsibilities;
(c) the needs of the workplace;
(d) the nature of your role and your level of responsibility;
(e) the notice given by Airservices of the requirement to work the additional hours and any notice you have given about your availability or unavailability to perform additional hours work in a particular period;
(f) if you express an unwillingness to perform the additional hours requested, the reason(s) you give for that unwillingness; and
(g) any other relevant matter, including the amount of additional hours you have performed during the operation of this agreement.
4.3.1 Under this agreement each employee has an obligation to work a reasonable amount of additional hours if Airservices considers that the working of additional hours is necessary to meet operational and/or business requirements.
4.3.2 In relation to requests to work additional hours generally, your manager will give consideration to the impact of additional hours and endeavour to accommodate your preferences. In relation to particular requests to work additional hours it will be relevant to take into account the following factors:
(a) any risk to your health and safety from working the additional hours requested;
(b) your personal circumstances, including compelling family responsibilities;
(c) the needs of the workplace;
(d) the nature of your role and your level of responsibility;
(e) the notice given by Airservices of the requirement to work the additional hours and any notice you have given about your availability or unavailability to perform additional hours work in a particular period;
(f) if you express an unwillingness to perform the additional hours requested, the reason(s) you give for that unwillingness; and
(g) any other relevant matter, including the amount of additional hours you have performed during the operation of this agreement.
Unfortunately, this place has been so reliant on overtime for the last 3-4 years, when they promoted 107 controllers away from the console - WITH NO REPLACEMENTS - the wheels fell off.
So now AsA is trying to argue that we HAVE to do overtime, just because we're an employee.
Does anyone besides desperate managers think it is a good idea for ATC'ers to be even more fatigued???
Join Date: Aug 2007
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If not why is anyone even answering these questions about non-availability?
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Don't have to make excuses if you don't answer the phone
Honestly, I think Asa would lock us in the building if they could.
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Am becoming increasingly glad that my home phone number is not anywhere to be found in ASA databases.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NSW- 3rd world state
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Doesn't this sort of searching for people on days off constitute harassment ?
When they do interview you, make sure your at the back of the line.
I'm pretty sure they won't buy enough rounds to shoot you individually, not when they realise the cost benefits of mulitple shootings with a single round.
When they do interview you, make sure your at the back of the line.
I'm pretty sure they won't buy enough rounds to shoot you individually, not when they realise the cost benefits of mulitple shootings with a single round.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Now that's desperation!
Did they offer to send TFN's own limo around to deliver you to your place of incarceration, err employment?
great job, pity about the house management!
Did they offer to send TFN's own limo around to deliver you to your place of incarceration, err employment?
great job, pity about the
house management!
Last edited by BeGoneTFN; 21st Sep 2008 at 12:36. Reason: spelling is terrribble
They opened the phone book as my number is not listed and called all of the same surname until they found a relative that would give them my number.
Hope you gave the relo who passed on your number a bollocking.
Keep reminding me why I left the joint years ago guys.
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I'm not holding my breath, but am wondering how long these bureaucrats will take to work out that the 'stick' isn't working and maybe its time to hold out the olive branch and try the 'carrot'.
TFN admitted that they hadn't done any workforce planning, and then went on to streamline (gut) the College, not knowing whether it was prudent to do so or not. The controllers and our Association warned him three years ago that staffing was dire and would become critical in the near future. From other posts on his incentive scheme it is not hard to work out for what personal gain this was done.
His sychophants have been telling him that technology will replace the controllers, if the history of ASA tells us anything then it is that the over-promise and under-deliver culture is ingrained in the Alan Woods Building.
When things are not delivered it is always someone elses fault. For the industry types, the promise of User Preferred Routing will NOT be available as promised by the middle of 2009, it was achievable but was never going to be delivered as they won't put the money towards the software. $106 million profit from the industry but you wont be getting UPRs or much in the way of RNPs. The manager who promised it at Waypoint 2008 is ' all tip and no iceberg'. Controllers on the ground have a far better idea of what can actually be achieved as we can see where the money is going, and where the staff are to implement projects.
SDE due Nov 2007, Flight Plan Conflict Probe pick any date in the last 4 years, Full staffing pick any date in the last 6 years. All of these are anyones guess.
Due to the creation of the ALM AWA positions and corresponding reduction in real numbers of controllers, there are no staff to assist with these projects as it is left to the remaining active controllers to struggle to keep airspace open.
A large proportion of sector simulator exercises at the centres, to train the new recruits, are out of date and not usable due to lack of staff to update them. The place is slowly and inexorably grinding to a halt.
One AWA ALM, who still has the moral compass intact, wrote on an Aviation site of what is wrong. We will soon see him back at the console. Lipservices are still shooting the messenger and ignoring the message.
To try and fix this ASA are attempting to take away our Principles of Rostering ( we have no CAR 48 Duty times protection), sick leave, and obligate us to attend on our days off.
The numbers of new hires PROMISED is NOT ACHIEVABLE, significant numbers of controllers are working, or have worked, out their exit strategies.
Those approaching retirement are bringing their retirement dates forward, and still these bureaucrats are saying there is no crisis.
Wait for the excuses and blame game to start as things get worse not better, we already have instituitionalised overtime and they want more. Refresher training is computer based Q&A, no simulator, there is no staff development
As the place crumbles even more, the blame will be put on the controllers, as the 50 odd people in the corporate spin doctors bunker continue to manipulate the media to protect a short-sighted, and incentive driven, management? team that have failed to plan and therefore plan to fail.
Now , more than anytime in the last twenty five plus years I have been around, ASA need to get controllers onside. Its not happening. In the past if we were rung up to come in our days off and had something on, the answer would be " I have a kids, wifes birthday, have family outing planned etc, etc, but if you can't find anyone else ring me back ". This would be told to the next person and eventually find someone to fill the hole or you would cancel your activity to attend. We got paid for this but rarely thanked. That style of supervisor is almost extinct these days, or that disillusioned with ASA that they have just gone back to controlling and left managing to the new breed. The new breed who have left us with this a staffing crisis, lack of training capability, and a disillusioned and disengaged workforce. But we do have a lot more managers.
Anyway, got to polish up the CV now.
TFN admitted that they hadn't done any workforce planning, and then went on to streamline (gut) the College, not knowing whether it was prudent to do so or not. The controllers and our Association warned him three years ago that staffing was dire and would become critical in the near future. From other posts on his incentive scheme it is not hard to work out for what personal gain this was done.
His sychophants have been telling him that technology will replace the controllers, if the history of ASA tells us anything then it is that the over-promise and under-deliver culture is ingrained in the Alan Woods Building.
When things are not delivered it is always someone elses fault. For the industry types, the promise of User Preferred Routing will NOT be available as promised by the middle of 2009, it was achievable but was never going to be delivered as they won't put the money towards the software. $106 million profit from the industry but you wont be getting UPRs or much in the way of RNPs. The manager who promised it at Waypoint 2008 is ' all tip and no iceberg'. Controllers on the ground have a far better idea of what can actually be achieved as we can see where the money is going, and where the staff are to implement projects.
SDE due Nov 2007, Flight Plan Conflict Probe pick any date in the last 4 years, Full staffing pick any date in the last 6 years. All of these are anyones guess.
Due to the creation of the ALM AWA positions and corresponding reduction in real numbers of controllers, there are no staff to assist with these projects as it is left to the remaining active controllers to struggle to keep airspace open.
A large proportion of sector simulator exercises at the centres, to train the new recruits, are out of date and not usable due to lack of staff to update them. The place is slowly and inexorably grinding to a halt.
One AWA ALM, who still has the moral compass intact, wrote on an Aviation site of what is wrong. We will soon see him back at the console. Lipservices are still shooting the messenger and ignoring the message.
To try and fix this ASA are attempting to take away our Principles of Rostering ( we have no CAR 48 Duty times protection), sick leave, and obligate us to attend on our days off.
The numbers of new hires PROMISED is NOT ACHIEVABLE, significant numbers of controllers are working, or have worked, out their exit strategies.
Those approaching retirement are bringing their retirement dates forward, and still these bureaucrats are saying there is no crisis.
Wait for the excuses and blame game to start as things get worse not better, we already have instituitionalised overtime and they want more. Refresher training is computer based Q&A, no simulator, there is no staff development
As the place crumbles even more, the blame will be put on the controllers, as the 50 odd people in the corporate spin doctors bunker continue to manipulate the media to protect a short-sighted, and incentive driven, management? team that have failed to plan and therefore plan to fail.
Now , more than anytime in the last twenty five plus years I have been around, ASA need to get controllers onside. Its not happening. In the past if we were rung up to come in our days off and had something on, the answer would be " I have a kids, wifes birthday, have family outing planned etc, etc, but if you can't find anyone else ring me back ". This would be told to the next person and eventually find someone to fill the hole or you would cancel your activity to attend. We got paid for this but rarely thanked. That style of supervisor is almost extinct these days, or that disillusioned with ASA that they have just gone back to controlling and left managing to the new breed. The new breed who have left us with this a staffing crisis, lack of training capability, and a disillusioned and disengaged workforce. But we do have a lot more managers.
Anyway, got to polish up the CV now.
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west atc,
easy to say that when you are headed for much greener pastures very soon!
not quite so easy when you need that same manager to sign off an increment advancement each year. 
easy to say that when you are headed for much greener pastures very soon!
not quite so easy when you need that same manager to sign off an increment advancement each year.
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So if you don't do overtime and have a legitimate reason such as.....my wife and kids need me to be a father/husband because that is a more important aspect of life that working.....then you won't get an annual increment advancement?
Is that what you are saying????
Is this true??
Is that what you are saying????
Is this true??
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west atc,
easy to say that when you are headed for much greener pastures very soon! not quite so easy when you need that same manager to sign off an increment advancement each year.
easy to say that when you are headed for much greener pastures very soon! not quite so easy when you need that same manager to sign off an increment advancement each year.
http://www.vateir.com/Charts/EIDW/Aerodrome.pdf