Merged: ASA Staff Shortage
Thought you chap/chapette ATCO's would be interested to know that ASA has informed our bosses (who have just communicated this to us), that the ASA Collective Agreement will be signed on 21 Dec and no more TIBA. (Wonder what they will call it next??????? 
) Cheers from the sandpit.!!!
) Cheers from the sandpit.!!!
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I hear that the new College boss has produced a breathtaking display of 'tough love' at the College. The new course has seen ASAs 'making it a great place to work' mantra in action.
No use cotton wooling them from what they can expect from their new employer.
No use cotton wooling them from what they can expect from their new employer.
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I guess the atmosphere theives in CBR beleive all the current TIBA is due to the lack of progress in the EBA. Yeah right! We don`t have the fricken staff and it`s not gettin any better i can tell youse. Just wait till we really get angry and turn the phone orf. Bulls#!t castle would have us believe that the trainees are coming thick and fast. Trouble is they start at the bottom and assuming they pass it`s takes a couple of years in the field to replace the experienced guys & gals that have gone os. No amount of spin will hide the fact the sh!t we`re in and it won`t magically get better if & when the EBA is finalised. Wonder how that retention bonus is coming along?
Todays date? August the 43rd eh. Greg?
Todays date? August the 43rd eh. Greg?
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Bulls#!t castle would have us believe that the trainees are coming thick and fast.
Surely aircraft operators must be fed-up with all the TIBA/delays due staff shortages. Yet, things remain eerily quiet
Thought you chap/chapette ATCO's would be interested to know that ASA has informed our bosses (who have just communicated this to us), that the ASA Collective Agreement will be signed on 21 Dec and no more TIBA. (Wonder what they will call it next??????? )
)
As for the academy incident, I believe the consensus was that the term "fascists" summed up the person(s) involved succintly.
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Thought you chap/chapette ATCO's would be interested to know that ASA has informed our bosses (who have just communicated this to us), that the ASA Collective Agreement will be signed on 21 Dec and no more TIBA.
Last edited by hoboe; 12th Sep 2008 at 23:28.
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I onky heard about this college incident third hand but to share what I heard....
Trainees started. Trainees have no instructors. Trainees told they have a 6 month delay of sitting around doing support roles to the other courses. Trainees say 'Homey don't think so'. College manager calls a meeting and shows up with a Security guard and tells all assembled that if they don't like it(delay), the security guard will escort them from the building and they no longer have a 'job'.
What a friggn awesome employer.
I could not believe this when I heard it.
(This is a third hand rumour)
Trainees started. Trainees have no instructors. Trainees told they have a 6 month delay of sitting around doing support roles to the other courses. Trainees say 'Homey don't think so'. College manager calls a meeting and shows up with a Security guard and tells all assembled that if they don't like it(delay), the security guard will escort them from the building and they no longer have a 'job'.
What a friggn awesome employer.
I could not believe this when I heard it. (This is a third hand rumour)
one of the new trainees was posting on Pprune before he started his course - suggested some current controllers were over-reacting if I recall!
He might like to tell us the story.
He might like to tell us the story.
I'm so saddened and ashamed to be part of this organisation. Having been part of a wonderful group of professionals for over 30 years, I'm afraid the loyalty and professionalism engendered by past senior staff has been totally eroded by the callous mismanagement, disdain and shortsitedness of the present. I'm truly saddened that the young controllers who are following will not have the comaradery, fun and sense of pride in their profession that I've had amongst a great bunch of dedicated professionals. Rex- I've finally taken your advice- "Mate- don't take it so seriously. It's only a game" When's the next pay cheque?
Last edited by yarrayarra; 14th Sep 2008 at 05:51.
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Tobzalp,
Further to what I have heard from sources quite close to the action.
What our ' great place to work' managers fail to realise that the people they have employed as trainees have lives.
Those moving from interstate would have signed rental agreements based on the length, they were told, the course would run.
From discussions with people who have been through the College lately, some left their other halves interstate as they had committments that didn't justify uprooting families, leaving jobs, etc for the period of time they were told they would be at the College.
Thumb Twiddling Course 27, were not told in advance that they would be extended due to lack of instructors. ASA are desperate to say they are putting trainess through the College. As a face saving exercise they decided to start the course knowing full well that they couldn't accomodate them. But if asked, could say we have started a course. Pure spin.
These poor people have been learning to be blip drivers (simulator support officers) on a trainees wage. They have now been told that they will be further extended. One RD , head spin doctor from Canberra, came to give them a Corporate indoctrination. Some quite pointed questions were asked from people who were hired because of their assertive personalities, among other things.
The new head of the College, recruited from the NAB with no aviation background, decided to play the heavy and arrived with security guard in tow.
She told these people, who have had to re-arrange leases, placate loved ones, left other jobs, etc, etc, that if they didn't like it, that they could be escorted right now off the premises by the security guard.
I am sure pushing people to make this decision in a matter of seconds was the reason she decided to play this game of brinkmanship. It is called bullying. I am also led to believe that some trainees made notes of the meeting, but on returning from lunch these had been gathered up and taken.
I suppose it saves time later, if you get your employees lied to and bullied early, that way nothing comes a surprise later on.
Further to what I have heard from sources quite close to the action.
What our ' great place to work' managers fail to realise that the people they have employed as trainees have lives.
Those moving from interstate would have signed rental agreements based on the length, they were told, the course would run.
From discussions with people who have been through the College lately, some left their other halves interstate as they had committments that didn't justify uprooting families, leaving jobs, etc for the period of time they were told they would be at the College.
Thumb Twiddling Course 27, were not told in advance that they would be extended due to lack of instructors. ASA are desperate to say they are putting trainess through the College. As a face saving exercise they decided to start the course knowing full well that they couldn't accomodate them. But if asked, could say we have started a course. Pure spin.
These poor people have been learning to be blip drivers (simulator support officers) on a trainees wage. They have now been told that they will be further extended. One RD , head spin doctor from Canberra, came to give them a Corporate indoctrination. Some quite pointed questions were asked from people who were hired because of their assertive personalities, among other things.
The new head of the College, recruited from the NAB with no aviation background, decided to play the heavy and arrived with security guard in tow.
She told these people, who have had to re-arrange leases, placate loved ones, left other jobs, etc, etc, that if they didn't like it, that they could be escorted right now off the premises by the security guard.
I am sure pushing people to make this decision in a matter of seconds was the reason she decided to play this game of brinkmanship. It is called bullying. I am also led to believe that some trainees made notes of the meeting, but on returning from lunch these had been gathered up and taken.
I suppose it saves time later, if you get your employees lied to and bullied early, that way nothing comes a surprise later on.
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This is totally bizzare. Are you telling me that trainees are being treated that way? I have a feeling that I know who RD may be - lot's of time controling - a dead set expert.
Now, all you dead-heads need to to do is make the "service delivery environment" work. Sheesh, I went to a RAPAC and listened to the spiel about SDE. I could not believe the rubbish I heard out of a young suit - forget his name - as to how this was to revolutionise ATC.
I seriously wonder how these guys manage to hold onto their jobs.
Now, all you dead-heads need to to do is make the "service delivery environment" work. Sheesh, I went to a RAPAC and listened to the spiel about SDE. I could not believe the rubbish I heard out of a young suit - forget his name - as to how this was to revolutionise ATC.
I seriously wonder how these guys manage to hold onto their jobs.
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I'm dying to know who RD is?
If thats the way the recruits are being treated I take back what I stated previously, ASA wont have any problems at all achieving the turnover they desire!
We as an organisation and service provider are seriously in the ****!
Won't someone please help, I'm looking for some political or media assistance here! anyone, anyone please.
The silence is deafening......... watch them all run if the unthinkable should occur. 200 TIBA in a month!
To all those interested this is the only avenue for concerned ASA staff, we can't convey our thoughts and fears in any other way, please heed our calls.
BgTFN
If thats the way the recruits are being treated I take back what I stated previously, ASA wont have any problems at all achieving the turnover they desire!
We as an organisation and service provider are seriously in the ****!
Won't someone please help, I'm looking for some political or media assistance here! anyone, anyone please.
The silence is deafening......... watch them all run if the unthinkable should occur. 200 TIBA in a month!
To all those interested this is the only avenue for concerned ASA staff, we can't convey our thoughts and fears in any other way, please heed our calls.
BgTFN
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BGTFN
The king of spin, he who speaks to the media about those nasty ATC's, kind of rhymes with fudley.
Corporate governance, I wonder if anyone in AWB has actually done it. I would have to guess no.
The king of spin, he who speaks to the media about those nasty ATC's, kind of rhymes with fudley.
Corporate governance, I wonder if anyone in AWB has actually done it. I would have to guess no.
What seems to be missing in this whole debate is the years of experience walking out the door. It seems that OS ANSPs are prepared to pay for this experience.
ASA will spin numbers, that is, controller numbers but it takes years to train from first in the door at the college to being a FPC controller able to work all shifts and all positions.
I understand that the numbers of ATC resigning will continue. The number of FPCs is diminishing by week by week, certainly much faster than they can be replaced. The sand pit continues to lure Tower controllers.
What was once a great profession has been completely done-over by bureaucrats who little or no understanding of what it is like to be an air traffic controller. I fail to see how this whole mess can be sorted.
ASA will spin numbers, that is, controller numbers but it takes years to train from first in the door at the college to being a FPC controller able to work all shifts and all positions.
I understand that the numbers of ATC resigning will continue. The number of FPCs is diminishing by week by week, certainly much faster than they can be replaced. The sand pit continues to lure Tower controllers.
What was once a great profession has been completely done-over by bureaucrats who little or no understanding of what it is like to be an air traffic controller. I fail to see how this whole mess can be sorted.
Last edited by missy; 15th Sep 2008 at 14:17.
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I couldn't believe it myself when I first heard, so did some digging.
The people now in charge of ASA have no empathy for other human beings.
These trainees will be six months behind where they were told they would be financially. Makes a difference at the end of your career.
They are not being forced to be on $35k for an extra six months, but really being denied six months pay on whatever they are on at the end of their career.
The bureaucrats running this place simply don't give a stuff about these people.
The people now in charge of ASA have no empathy for other human beings.
These trainees will be six months behind where they were told they would be financially. Makes a difference at the end of your career.
They are not being forced to be on $35k for an extra six months, but really being denied six months pay on whatever they are on at the end of their career.
The bureaucrats running this place simply don't give a stuff about these people.
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YarraYarra, you know who I am and I know who you are, and it is a great pity that a person with your experience, skill and respect is so burned by AsA. Make the most of these last years and don't let the ba@#ards get you down! Make sure you pop in on the way to Euorpe.
Cheers,
NFR.
Cheers,
NFR.
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Thanks Albizia,
How could I miss that, he's another hack goodness its hard to keep up with them all.
I wonder if that clown will be doing a victory tour with TFN and JH when the place goes under, I'm betting they'll remain bunkered down in the NOC shop. No doubt brain storming more excuses!
Think I would have to go Non-op if any of them bothered to turned up at my work place! It would be an interesting reception given the way he as the CEO has displayed a compelete lack of respect for and blatantly defamed his entire ATC workforce.
Mutual respect = a somewhat better place to work
TFN you have failed, every part of ASA struggles on a daily basis to simply operate.
I believe a significant event occured when all staff development training was cancelled about two years ago, that was the writing on the wall your attitude towards staff then became evident.
You want the factory sterile environment to drive people out, to drive them nuts (just how long can someone stand doing the one sector). Its all about cost and your personal remuneration, you don't care about our organsiation you killed Hazo's now you crap on about a government mandate regarding pay rises and bleet about our sick leave entitlements (have you ever worked at night you gnat!) to further erode our conditions.
I personally hope that before you extricate your head from your a*se, you and your managers get a rocket from QF, VOZ and the government because airports are closing, yes closing due to your arrogance and incompetence that led to a large proportion of your workforce to seek alternative employment.
Geez, I need a drink now, you sh*t me so much!
BgTFN
How could I miss that, he's another hack goodness its hard to keep up with them all.
I wonder if that clown will be doing a victory tour with TFN and JH when the place goes under, I'm betting they'll remain bunkered down in the NOC shop. No doubt brain storming more excuses!
Think I would have to go Non-op if any of them bothered to turned up at my work place! It would be an interesting reception given the way he as the CEO has displayed a compelete lack of respect for and blatantly defamed his entire ATC workforce.
Mutual respect = a somewhat better place to work
TFN you have failed, every part of ASA struggles on a daily basis to simply operate.
I believe a significant event occured when all staff development training was cancelled about two years ago, that was the writing on the wall your attitude towards staff then became evident.
You want the factory sterile environment to drive people out, to drive them nuts (just how long can someone stand doing the one sector). Its all about cost and your personal remuneration, you don't care about our organsiation you killed Hazo's now you crap on about a government mandate regarding pay rises and bleet about our sick leave entitlements (have you ever worked at night you gnat!) to further erode our conditions.
I personally hope that before you extricate your head from your a*se, you and your managers get a rocket from QF, VOZ and the government because airports are closing, yes closing due to your arrogance and incompetence that led to a large proportion of your workforce to seek alternative employment.
Geez, I need a drink now, you sh*t me so much!
BgTFN
Last edited by BeGoneTFN; 14th Sep 2008 at 13:30.
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The Australian cricket squad to tour India lacking a good spinner - they could do a lot worse that the person who thought up the lastest TLI about the composition of TIBA NOTAMs.
How about this for a fizzing legbreak?
The wording is not to include the phrase "...due staff shortage" if there were staff available for callout, but who declined the invitation to attend, ie in the case of a short notice absence.
The correct phrase is mandated as "...due staff unavailability".
The first phrase may only be used if there was originally a vacant spot on the roster that was not able to be filled.
Warney would have been proud of that jaffa!!
How about this for a fizzing legbreak?
The wording is not to include the phrase "...due staff shortage" if there were staff available for callout, but who declined the invitation to attend, ie in the case of a short notice absence.
The correct phrase is mandated as "...due staff unavailability".
The first phrase may only be used if there was originally a vacant spot on the roster that was not able to be filled.
Warney would have been proud of that jaffa!!
Its good to see your the ASA PR section is responsible for NOTAMs!!!!
No doubt they had a large meeting and then a lunch after that consultation was done.
One point I would disagree with however is I'm sure your boss does work late at night....
1. Just not very often.
2. Never all night
3. Get paids a CEO salary to do it!
Maybe that American bunch who do the Commonwealth Bank Adds also advise ASA HQ.....maybe they actually run ASA!
No doubt they had a large meeting and then a lunch after that consultation was done.
One point I would disagree with however is I'm sure your boss does work late at night....
1. Just not very often.
2. Never all night
3. Get paids a CEO salary to do it!
Maybe that American bunch who do the Commonwealth Bank Adds also advise ASA HQ.....maybe they actually run ASA!
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More like a fizzing googly!
Of course, "staff unavailability" suggests that there's sufficient staff, they're just "'unavailable". Ergo, it's all your fault.
Neither Blackadder, nor the fox appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University, ever came up with such a cunning plan.
Of course, "staff unavailability" suggests that there's sufficient staff, they're just "'unavailable". Ergo, it's all your fault.
Neither Blackadder, nor the fox appointed Professor of Cunning at Oxford University, ever came up with such a cunning plan.
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If they put half the effort into fixing the problems that they do into playing their highly suspect blame game, the poor old customers might be getting to their destinations on time!!! 