Merged: ASA Staff Shortage
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Many of us are in the same (leaky) boat Owen but are suffering extreme fatigue, even if FAID says we`re good to go. Time to take my fatigue into me own hands from the 22nd! Ah, the serenity of a mobile on 'silent'....
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Boree,
My mobile has been on silent for a while now.
Most have simply had enough, there's only so much you can take from an employer with an attitude as displayed by ASA to its most important resource, its people!
The expectation for overtime is now way to great. Its not all one way! I have a life!
Lets begin the end game!
My mobile has been on silent for a while now.
Most have simply had enough, there's only so much you can take from an employer with an attitude as displayed by ASA to its most important resource, its people!
The expectation for overtime is now way to great. Its not all one way! I have a life!
Lets begin the end game!
The Meeting..
If this meeting with the Minister is scheduled for 'this' Wed. is that for Wed 17.12.08?
i.e Tomorrow??
Then you / your Union, hasn't much time to prepare a factual statement to repudiate the 'expected arguments'.
'Owen' has the best idea to commence with I would say.
Numerous copies of worked ROSTERS / Day Sheets, Projected Rosters showing ALL blanks etc would certainly go a long way to making your Initial point.
This is your BIG chance I reckon to set the record straight and get a commitment FROM the Minister as to what is going to happen from here....
i.e. Serve it up, as it is, a 'straight serve' and let your 'CEO' explain himself.
Obvious I know, but this is meant as a comment of support - I do not wish to be / sound patronising in any way.
GOOD LUCK!!!
i.e Tomorrow??
Then you / your Union, hasn't much time to prepare a factual statement to repudiate the 'expected arguments'.
'Owen' has the best idea to commence with I would say.
Numerous copies of worked ROSTERS / Day Sheets, Projected Rosters showing ALL blanks etc would certainly go a long way to making your Initial point.
This is your BIG chance I reckon to set the record straight and get a commitment FROM the Minister as to what is going to happen from here....
i.e. Serve it up, as it is, a 'straight serve' and let your 'CEO' explain himself.
Obvious I know, but this is meant as a comment of support - I do not wish to be / sound patronising in any way.
GOOD LUCK!!!
Join Date: Mar 2007
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You are all members of the Aust. Public and are entilted to speak to the elected representatives of Gov. anytime you wish. We don't have red stars on the buildings yet.
Ask him would he like to here the corporate spin version or the version from the shop floor.
Remember the impression Terry the plumber left on Obama !
Good luck to you all.
Ask him would he like to here the corporate spin version or the version from the shop floor.
Remember the impression Terry the plumber left on Obama !
Good luck to you all.
At this supposed meeting, if it occurs, ferchrissake take notes.
TFN will have "briefed" the Minister and his staff to the eyeballs, and he isn't going to believe your representatives at all, because he isn't the sharpest knife in the set, and, being a Minister, he has to make decisions on the basis of the advice given to him by his Department, and they are going to tow the AsA line for sure.
In my opinion. your only hope is to repeat over and over again your mantra about staff numbers being critical due to fatigue and excessive overtime, and that even if your pay is doubled, it ain't going to make a difference.
My guess is that you are going to come away empty handed or worse, and that the accident that is inevitably going to occur will claim the Ministers scalp as well.
TFN will have "briefed" the Minister and his staff to the eyeballs, and he isn't going to believe your representatives at all, because he isn't the sharpest knife in the set, and, being a Minister, he has to make decisions on the basis of the advice given to him by his Department, and they are going to tow the AsA line for sure.
In my opinion. your only hope is to repeat over and over again your mantra about staff numbers being critical due to fatigue and excessive overtime, and that even if your pay is doubled, it ain't going to make a difference.
My guess is that you are going to come away empty handed or worse, and that the accident that is inevitably going to occur will claim the Ministers scalp as well.
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Crikey hits the nail on the head
...And they just might have got the theory correct...
Crikey...
The tip about a meeting between Minister Albanese, Airservices Australia & the Air Traffic Controllers Association Civil Air had many scratching their heads today in the perpetually understaffed ATC Centres. Why would the government and a government body want to antagonise a workforce that is holding the ATC system together only through massive amounts of overtime, at a time when the holiday season is approaching, no serious new contract has been offered and its workforce are leaving for overseas positions with double the salary on offer?
There is only one logical answer -- Airservices and the government don't want agreement on a new contract because it would show that the whole false campaign about renegade controllers taking sickies was a complete fabrication. A signed contract would not see a stop to the airspace closures, because they have in fact been caused by reckless mismanagement by Airservices Australia and an intentional running down of staff numbers in the interests of profits and management bonuses.
It is a cynical ploy from an executive that doesn't understand its own core business, or the consequences of its actions upon the air safety of Australia. It is going to take another three to five years minimum to recover from the destruction of intellectual resources that have occurred recently. By manufacturing a dispute where none exists, the incompetents who reside in the Alan Woods building can deflect the eventual hard questions and media criticism a little longer -- on the very people they need to keep the remnants of a broken system together.
Crikey...
The tip about a meeting between Minister Albanese, Airservices Australia & the Air Traffic Controllers Association Civil Air had many scratching their heads today in the perpetually understaffed ATC Centres. Why would the government and a government body want to antagonise a workforce that is holding the ATC system together only through massive amounts of overtime, at a time when the holiday season is approaching, no serious new contract has been offered and its workforce are leaving for overseas positions with double the salary on offer?
There is only one logical answer -- Airservices and the government don't want agreement on a new contract because it would show that the whole false campaign about renegade controllers taking sickies was a complete fabrication. A signed contract would not see a stop to the airspace closures, because they have in fact been caused by reckless mismanagement by Airservices Australia and an intentional running down of staff numbers in the interests of profits and management bonuses.
It is a cynical ploy from an executive that doesn't understand its own core business, or the consequences of its actions upon the air safety of Australia. It is going to take another three to five years minimum to recover from the destruction of intellectual resources that have occurred recently. By manufacturing a dispute where none exists, the incompetents who reside in the Alan Woods building can deflect the eventual hard questions and media criticism a little longer -- on the very people they need to keep the remnants of a broken system together.
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I wouldn't hold my breath wating for the aviation "specialists" from The Australian or other mainstream press to do anything resembling 'investigative reporting", including asking hard, pointed questions.
Sandilands appears to be the only scribe around who's willing to dig a bit. As for the rest, I think "public interest" and "truth" are foreign concepts.
I think there's a story here that would unearth some embarrassing facts, if what I've read is correct - and I don't doubt it is; particularly the longstanding predictions by the union regarding shortages. My take is that this is Tricky Dicky stuff. Unfortunately, we don't have a mainstream reporter that could find the aviation equivalent of his ass with both hands.
Sandilands appears to be the only scribe around who's willing to dig a bit. As for the rest, I think "public interest" and "truth" are foreign concepts.
I think there's a story here that would unearth some embarrassing facts, if what I've read is correct - and I don't doubt it is; particularly the longstanding predictions by the union regarding shortages. My take is that this is Tricky Dicky stuff. Unfortunately, we don't have a mainstream reporter that could find the aviation equivalent of his ass with both hands.
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Okay, to make it easy for the journalists to investigate this claim of "Sick-outs" by controllers that keeps getting used as an excuse for service interruptions:
What follows is excerpts from a publicly available document from the government website on senate estimates committees:
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committ...aa04attach.pdf
(obviously the colouring for emphasis is my own)
Okay, so controller numbers decreased but there was a slight increase in sick leave on average. perhaps there is some basis for these accusations?
Let's look a little harder before we jump to any conclusions:
Again, an increase. wow, maybe there is a trend.
But Wait!!!
4 (d) Total sick leave days taken by air traffic controllers by duration
What's this? Single day absences - what Senator McGuaran alluded to as "sickies" in a senate hearing - ACTUALLY DECREASED BY 865.
And there was an increase of more than 800 cases of sick leave lasting 10 days or more. But guess what? That kind of sick leave gets looked at VERY CLOSELY by the employer, and needs doctors certificates to support it. (in fact, 2 or more days needs a doctors certificate) It also suggests that some people were seriously sick for extended periods - WHICH is another reason why the actual number of available controllers is in dispute. You cannot count people on long term sick leave as available staff.
What we have is an decreasing number of aging staff.
There is no "sick-out"
What follows is excerpts from a publicly available document from the government website on senate estimates committees:
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committ...aa04attach.pdf
(obviously the colouring for emphasis is my own)
4 (f) Average sick leave days per controller
....................................2005/06 ............2006/07 ............2007/08
No. of controllers .............981 .....................983..................... 971
Total sick leave days... 12,123 ...............13,401 .................13,509
Average per controller. 12.36 ..............13.63.................. 13.91....................................2005/06 ............2006/07 ............2007/08
No. of controllers .............981 .....................983..................... 971
Total sick leave days... 12,123 ...............13,401 .................13,509
Okay, so controller numbers decreased but there was a slight increase in sick leave on average. perhaps there is some basis for these accusations?
Let's look a little harder before we jump to any conclusions:
4 (a) Total unplanned absence days - all air traffic controllers
.....................................2005/06........... 2006/07.............. 2007/08
Sick leave....................... 12,123 ...............13,401 ..............13,509
Personal Leave............. 1,525 .................1,500 ..................1,629
........................................13,648.............. 14,902 ................15,138.....................................2005/06........... 2006/07.............. 2007/08
Sick leave....................... 12,123 ...............13,401 ..............13,509
Personal Leave............. 1,525 .................1,500 ..................1,629
Again, an increase. wow, maybe there is a trend.
But Wait!!!
4 (d) Total sick leave days taken by air traffic controllers by duration
..............................................2005/06 ...............2006/07 ..............2007/08
Single day .................................6,119 .....................6,548 .................5,683
Between 2 & 10 days ..............4,845................... 5,004................... 5,130
Greater than 10 days ..............1,159................... 1,848 ...................2,697
...................................................12,123 .................13,401 .................13,509Single day .................................6,119 .....................6,548 .................5,683
Between 2 & 10 days ..............4,845................... 5,004................... 5,130
Greater than 10 days ..............1,159................... 1,848 ...................2,697
What's this? Single day absences - what Senator McGuaran alluded to as "sickies" in a senate hearing - ACTUALLY DECREASED BY 865.
And there was an increase of more than 800 cases of sick leave lasting 10 days or more. But guess what? That kind of sick leave gets looked at VERY CLOSELY by the employer, and needs doctors certificates to support it. (in fact, 2 or more days needs a doctors certificate) It also suggests that some people were seriously sick for extended periods - WHICH is another reason why the actual number of available controllers is in dispute. You cannot count people on long term sick leave as available staff.
What we have is an decreasing number of aging staff.
There is no "sick-out"
Join Date: Dec 2001
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But...
Isn't there a huge difference between the number of Air Traffic Controllers claimed by both sides?
Isn't it true that AsA management count ATC numbers as including project staff, training staff and other so-called ATC's that do not actually 'plug in' and do ATC?
What are the real numbers. You guys have to follow this through. Make the truth known. It is possible to expose this huge lie but you have to get the details out to the right people. You should make it your mission to expose this lie and never give up until those that created it are exposed and removed.
Keep up the work you UndervaluedATC.
Isn't there a huge difference between the number of Air Traffic Controllers claimed by both sides?
Isn't it true that AsA management count ATC numbers as including project staff, training staff and other so-called ATC's that do not actually 'plug in' and do ATC?
What are the real numbers. You guys have to follow this through. Make the truth known. It is possible to expose this huge lie but you have to get the details out to the right people. You should make it your mission to expose this lie and never give up until those that created it are exposed and removed.
Keep up the work you UndervaluedATC.
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Is it also true that legally required regular training has not been completed for many ATC's - all because of lack of staff.
Airservices has become a world wide laughing stock. Surely all those 'managers' in Canberra don't mind a little accountability for all their big dollars.
Expose all the lies before you all get shafted again.
Airservices has become a world wide laughing stock. Surely all those 'managers' in Canberra don't mind a little accountability for all their big dollars.
Expose all the lies before you all get shafted again.
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Originally Posted by Baileys
Is it also true that legally required regular training has not been completed for many ATC's - all because of lack of staff.
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I hope that the controllers get some joy soon.
I just hope it is not the organization setting you up for another situation like the pilot strike under the hawke era. Destroying your collective to formulate your eba. Just starting to smell a bit like that situation.
I once applied for an air services Australia trainee ATC Job. I was put on a 12 months eligibilty list. Was prepared to go anywhere in aus. In some ways glad i didn't get offered the guernsey would have been tough to make the decision between the job i was working at the time back to a wage that was a quarter of what i was earning at the time. To hear all this going on just makes me thankful. However it does sound very similar to stuff at my current workplace. 2 concurrent enquiries from the government into this organisation still hasn't achieved any real change in the problems.
Thank you for doing a good job and I appreciate the help and the professional manner that collectively i have recieved as I have been flying around.
I just hope it is not the organization setting you up for another situation like the pilot strike under the hawke era. Destroying your collective to formulate your eba. Just starting to smell a bit like that situation.
I once applied for an air services Australia trainee ATC Job. I was put on a 12 months eligibilty list. Was prepared to go anywhere in aus. In some ways glad i didn't get offered the guernsey would have been tough to make the decision between the job i was working at the time back to a wage that was a quarter of what i was earning at the time. To hear all this going on just makes me thankful. However it does sound very similar to stuff at my current workplace. 2 concurrent enquiries from the government into this organisation still hasn't achieved any real change in the problems.
Thank you for doing a good job and I appreciate the help and the professional manner that collectively i have recieved as I have been flying around.
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Ex FSO Griffo,
Direct from someone who was there,
Little to report except that the Minister encouraged us to reach an agreement without having to wait around. Was all very high level. CEO indicated to the Minister that he thought we were close to an agreement.
The part about the CEO's indication is a direct reflection on the spinelessness of said individual...
Also, BAILEYS, Civil Air have indeed carried out an analysis of the staffing levels - the actual number (at the time of the survey approx. 2-3 months ago) was around 750 FTE (full-time equivalent)! That is actual people hands-on at a console. Compare this with the spin-merchant's quote to the Gov't of 971!!!
LESSON - Don't buy a house/car from TFN
Direct from someone who was there,
Little to report except that the Minister encouraged us to reach an agreement without having to wait around. Was all very high level. CEO indicated to the Minister that he thought we were close to an agreement.
The part about the CEO's indication is a direct reflection on the spinelessness of said individual...
Also, BAILEYS, Civil Air have indeed carried out an analysis of the staffing levels - the actual number (at the time of the survey approx. 2-3 months ago) was around 750 FTE (full-time equivalent)! That is actual people hands-on at a console. Compare this with the spin-merchant's quote to the Gov't of 971!!!
LESSON - Don't buy a house/car from TFN
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close to an agreement
I`d say we`re about as far apart, at a negotiating and general relationship level, as we`ve ever been. It`s just more of the same from TFN. He preaches to a larger audience that everything is fine yet his actions, especially from those beneath him charged with actually implementing things, are not even close to the 'spin' put out.
Either TFN is so far removed from real people he believes what he says is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth or he has a cunning plan. How stupid could the head of BS castle be? Is BS castle inhabited purely by maggots intent on crawling their way as high up the building as possible?
ARGGGHHHHHH......Days off after today. Maybe i`ll get maggoted and tell `em what i really think when the inevitable phone call arrives.
p.s. it must be time for time for a Darth Vader Christmas special.
I tend to agree with Mr Baileys ...
If the Press wont write a story ... why don't you do it yourselves?
Compile the FACTS and prepare a report on the last couple of years ... then either publish it yourselves or offer it around.
If the Press wont write a story ... why don't you do it yourselves?
Compile the FACTS and prepare a report on the last couple of years ... then either publish it yourselves or offer it around.