HyperMerged: Q Engineering LAME EBA VIII/Industrial Strategies

[MENDAERO]

It's been brought to my attention that QANTAS management has put up some people to register on this site and make some comments ( like LAMEA380) to stir up the members of the ALAEA.
This thread is not the only one either, so DON'T fall for it.
For confirmation, just check our the number of posts and join date.
My source also advises that there are a couple of longer term forum users also "acting for QF"
This is just another shoddy strategy used by this company in an attempt to de-stabilise LAMES.
So steady on guys......... save the hostile words for a better time.

They don't really think their going to have any sway over the guys do they, their tactics are childish and transparent. If they think they can run a campaign against the LAME's like Sir Peter Abeles did against the Pilot's, they really are as incompetent as they seem.

QE do you think your going to get the ACTU onside and get the support of Rudd like Hawke was? You're living in LA LA Land Next you'll think your going to be able to tap our phones

So you've got strikebreakers

[yamaha]

Most Important

The one single action that will get results is SOLIDARITY

By all means discuss all avenues of action but.........................
never,never publicly spilt or show dissent to union recommendations.

Those guys have to negotiate on your behalf. Management will be trying to gauge the strength of feeling and your will to strike. If you split it weakens the bargaining position of the union.

This is not a right or wrong of the tactics mentioned here but this is suggesting you put your ideas to your executive. You must now become one single unit with one voice whatever the chosen path of action. Keep it to yourselves. Do not publicly give management any ideas at all to work with other than the unions official statements.

If you are unhappy with your unions official statements, tell them but do not tell the world. Anything else will weaken your position and potentially cost you your victory.

I wish you all the very best.

[The cougar]

Be smart men and hang in there. The pilots of 89 panicked and resigned enmasse effectively removing industrial action and shooting themselves in the foot. Also dont lose sight of the big picture 5% would be nice but the XPT clause, definition of an employee and unlimited part timers have to be addressed to.

[Deck Zone]

Carefull MENDAERO. Find out what constitutes 6 months use of your licence in the last 2 years before making threats. We can't afford rash statements.
I think what you're referring to is the new system that is still to be introduced into CASA and talked about for a long time.

[Millet Fanger]

GJ has never been a LAME.

All employees at Syd Tech Training have had leave cancelled, instructors, admin staff, the works. They have been recalled to train up scabs (Not strikebreakers, no strike planned by LAME's). A couple of instructors objected and were threatened with secondary boycott action against individuals.

Looks like Management are still using the skills that has got them into the predicament that they are in at present.

[NMDhold]

Lets start another front.

When Nazi Germany was confronted with 5 seperate fronts, they collapsed.

If we have a political front with the ALAEA and a grassroots front like the "Industrial action is for losers" suggestion,

Qantas may bend with the strain,

or it may break, with a management cleanout and more reasonable managers put in place.

Understand this... we cannot expect to win a frontal assault.

Qantas has a massive fighting fund.

Effectively they have next years profit as a war chest...said to be around 1.5 billion dollars!!!!!

realistically, they may manufacture a condition where they also have sovereign support.

If they get the public on their side....it will be 1700 engineers against 21,000,000 Australian taxpayers

We on the otherhand have at the very most one or 2 mortgage repayments as our fighting fund!!!!!

Guess who will win that round????

We should pick our fights, never attack head on, never join battle on the enemies home turf...i.e. out and out hostility

we need to be the Vietcong to the Americans!!!!!

Victory favours the bold.

[AEROMEDIC]

stooges.........

Yep......... you're right. My info is pretty good on this point though. Apologies to those new forum members who are not in this category.

The point is not to be taken in by clumsy efforts to stir up the troops.

The next attempt I'm sure will be more subtle.

Note references to "breaking the strike" "strikebreakers".......when there is no strike,...... only perfectly legal and approved by the Industrial Relations Commision as protected industrial action !!!!

[ata 38 32]

That may be the case for the majority (long term QF LAME's) but don't forget the lower grade LAME's. Some of these people have been with the other Airline and are starting again up the long ladder. Most of these LAME's do need the 3 or 5% and they've been in the industry for 30 to 40 years.

how about getting day shift loadings for post 97 starters, this will help the lower grades

[Angle of Attack]

NMD,

Great post I respect you! That is the way to do it,
however when you said,

"Who will join us?"

I believe not all will, especially QF pilots their spine is fragile as a fishbone unfortunately.(of course not all but there is a certain percentage like that!) and there is other engineers who will scab, if everyone was together using SOLIDARITY as yamaha said! we would achieve, the only detriment is these SCABS!

You go boy!(or girl) I for one will behind you all the way!
Its time companies realised that we control the finances not some idiot manager in an air conditioned office!


BRING IT ON!!

Its time we realised we control the situation as workers not idiotic managment!

[Big Enis Burdett]

I'm with NMD,

I think any kind of strike will play right into there hands. There are some
similarities here with the mechanics strike of 2005 at Northwest airlines.

- A management team that wanted and provoked a strike
- A management team that had a scab work force waiting in the wings
- A management team that had the government and regulator onside

Google the Northwest strike. We can learn from there errors.

We are better tying them up with their own red tape and they know this.
As other users have posted use the AMM/PPM/LAP etc. There are our tools.
If that tyre looks worn take a trip to the hangar and get a depth mic and
keep an eye out for U/S tooling.

Don’t forget the form 2000 either. Remember it when you get that scratch, nick, cut,
abrasion, dizzy spell etc. If need be take the matter up with your doctor. He/she
may need to elevate it to an LTI.

Remember guys, safety before schedule.

Stick together and we'll get there.

Great web site by the way, a great communication tool, pass the word/address around.

Cheers,

Big Enis,

[MENDAERO]

we cannot expect to win a frontal assault.

Agreed.

Use other tactics, hit them from many fronts, cause a lot of overtime and never refuse overtime, just don't be available for O/T, tell them you'd love to if wasn't for the.......... and don't answer that private number.

[bzztOw!bzztOw!]

Yes its a first post but I am ex HM SYD who has had the phone call.
I just realised management may have been smarter than I thought.

Imagine some time ago as a cunning plan is hatched; "Where do we get a qualified bunch of strikebreakers to cover us while we shaft the LAMES? I know, lets make a bunch redundant, give em a while to realise they might need a few more bucks before retirement then make them an attractive offer."

Will the 100 be enough to cover cancelled friends, stress, harrassment, future career limitations, etc and also paying for your car maybe getting trashed in the carpark? Good luck and tread carefully, sure to be some traps set!

[troppo]

To play the devil's advocate and at the risk of being flamed...isn't the displayed attitude your own worst enemy? Is labour not now a global market and history not shown this? I for one support the cause but wish to add for argument's sake. Are we confident we will prevail or will it end up in more business units being outsourced and jobs going off shore where lower terms and conditions go straight to the bottom line and thus increasing ROI for investors?
Remember this is for argument's sake only!

[MENDAERO]

We Are Not Striking!

Qantas are attempting to recruit strikebreakers, however it's Engineering Staff are not striking. The Industrial Relations Commission has approved Protected Industrial Action, which does not include strike.

The Qantas Engineers are not seeking to strike and will continue to negotiate in good faith.

WE ARE NOT STRIKING

[reflux]

devil's advocate

you may well be right in that we are our own worst enemy, in many ways, but we are now sick of putting up with the patronising, condescending attitude of current management. I'm not confident we will prevail, however other mob are certainly nervous about which way we will go on this. They know we've been getting shafted for a long time now and have shown their hand by being prepared to play dirty pool. It's time to bring this to a head. In a month's time it will be either working for qf with a better wage deal or it's back to 1989/90 for qf eng (not pilot's dispute) where they could not get an aircraft out on time to save themselves and ended up recruiting worldwide. Very expensive just to deny us an extra 2%

[yamaha]

@nmdhold

Please cease to cause unrest. Discuss your views in the appropriate place and in the appropriate manner. Looking at the result of the ballot you appear to be an island.

If you are genuinely concerned about what the future could bring talk to the right people in private. You are undermining the workforce's chance of success by posting here in a very public manner.

If you are genuine you will talk to the right people in Private.
If you are management you will continue causing unrest here.

[Bumpfoh]

Bring it on!

All leave other than previously approved Long Service cancelled from the 14th Jan onwards.

Now it starts to get interesting.

Eagerly awaitng the next tactical move from Bexley.

[NMDhold]

Yamaha, thanks for the heads up....

I can't guarantee I won't post here again though

If you read my post on this thread properly, I think you will find that I don't disapprove of STRIKE action, just that we could consider simultaneous action in other fields that would put pressure on the bastards in another way.

And Yamaha....will YOU join us????

remember not less than 20 defects per transit!!!!!

cheers

NMDhold

[N.E.R.D.]

Asymmetric warfare

Sorry gents, borrowing from Wikipedia:
Originally referred to war between two or more actors or groups whose relative military power differs significantly. Contemporary military thinkers tend to broaden this to include asymmetry of strategy or tactics; today "asymmetric warfare" can describe a conflict in which the resources of two belligerents differ in essence and in the struggle, interact and attempt to exploit each other's characteristic weaknesses. Such struggles often involve strategies and tactics of unconventional warfare, the "weaker" combatants attempting to use strategy to offset deficiencies in quantity or quality.

Terrain can be used as a force multiplier by the smaller force and as a force inhibitor against the larger force. Such terrain is called difficult terrain.

The contour of the land is an aid to the army; sizing up opponents to determine victory, assessing dangers and distances… those who do battle without knowing these will lose. ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Tactics usually attributed to guerrilla warfare are often used in asymmetrical warfare by the smaller side. In both cases, the forces may rely on a friendly population to provide supplies and intelligence and difficult terrain for cover and escape. The population and terrain are often well-known to native forces, who can use both to escape reprisal from conventional armies and supply themselves to continue their operations. The use of asymmetrical tactics by outside forces often requires extensive reconnaissance to make use of terrain characteristics.

The use of terrain in asymmetric warfare

Minority forces often operate in regions providing plenty of cover and concealment, especially heavily forested and mountainous areas. This tactic takes advantage of the relative immobility of a larger army in such terrain. In urban areas they will blend into the population and are often dependent on a support base among the people to hide their whereabouts.

The point is. Use the PPM, use the MM,SRM,FIM use the SAFE PM,APSM, tech log, DR&R ,CROSS reports, ASIR and all other company and regulatory documentation to do your job in a PROFESSIONAL and DILLIGENT manner.

You are professionals! act like it! Your licence and experience are your shield.
Remember that SAFETY and AIRWORTHINESS are paramount and just do your jobs.

Qantas management are showing how grubby and dirty their tactics can be!

For far too long we have been lied to and now is the time to return some integrity and pride to our profession.

Fight smart, stand together!

[yamaha]

An excellent post but both missing one vital point,

Never tell the enemy what you are about to do.
That is my sentiment here.

Get off the web with this what we are or are not going to do. That belongs in private (underground).

To misquote a miltary phrase:
CARELESS TALK COSTS JOBS!