Pilot Suspensions / Mt Cook Airlines
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When you have been through a dispute and had your former colleagues go behind your back and usurp any kind of collective influence you 'might have had' resulting in job loss leading to relocation of the entire family come back and talk to me; until then you have no idea what you are talking about.
An S word was mentioned a while ago so I have a question for you: Once crossed that line, how long will one carry that moniker?... For EVER
An S word was mentioned a while ago so I have a question for you: Once crossed that line, how long will one carry that moniker?... For EVER
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: NZ
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have... not in this country, but I have. In my case, it all ended up in court.
In such a situation, you can either act with dignity, or you can become a thug. Your choice.
The only place that the "S" word exists forever, is in the bitter and twisted minds of those who choose to remember it. People who can't move on, and who are doomed to a lifetime of bitterness and regret.
Before, I just thought you were an over-agressive union goon, but now I just feel sorry for you.
Perhaps you should try educating the over-zealous youngsters on here about what actually happens when you start something you can't finish.
In such a situation, you can either act with dignity, or you can become a thug. Your choice.
The only place that the "S" word exists forever, is in the bitter and twisted minds of those who choose to remember it. People who can't move on, and who are doomed to a lifetime of bitterness and regret.
Before, I just thought you were an over-agressive union goon, but now I just feel sorry for you.
Perhaps you should try educating the over-zealous youngsters on here about what actually happens when you start something you can't finish.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In none of my posts did I refer to violence or intimidation. That was was your little seed. However I think you are a loser; one who quite clearly sympathises with those people I never will. This is my last post on this subject.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: with the porangi,s in Pohara
Age: 66
Posts: 983
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RD.. whilst Ive agreed with most of of your points,I also would also make the point that when it comes to negotiation etc etc,things do get a little heated...things get said,tempers run high....be wary of the fact that not all digest these situations as you do,and to paste or paint everybody with the same brush because their rhetoric is a little "agro" is 
.....I have to work with blokes that left a good airline job to go down to OZ to replace Ansett Airline crews(who have families )so that they might have a good time at their expense,knowing they would come back to the states,no penalties,but for a good time ,while a job action was going on......and to hear their excuses as to why they went is pitiful.....you talk of thuggery...it is not hard to feel that way when someone who doesn,t give a ****e about your well-being comes in from overseas and takes your job, then leaves 3 months later and doesnt give a crap.....America West Pilots,I have the list (as part of Ansett) did this and did it knowingly...I have had feelings like MT,S on sevearl occasions...
Over a few tinnies,I,m sure we could have a great chinwaggle,but mate,....there are some very ****ty people out there who have no scruples...and MT DOES HAVE A GOOD POINT...call them what you want,..the bottom line is they have no respect for themselves or for the industry
.....I have to work with blokes that left a good airline job to go down to OZ to replace Ansett Airline crews(who have families )so that they might have a good time at their expense,knowing they would come back to the states,no penalties,but for a good time ,while a job action was going on......and to hear their excuses as to why they went is pitiful.....you talk of thuggery...it is not hard to feel that way when someone who doesn,t give a ****e about your well-being comes in from overseas and takes your job, then leaves 3 months later and doesnt give a crap.....America West Pilots,I have the list (as part of Ansett) did this and did it knowingly...I have had feelings like MT,S on sevearl occasions... Over a few tinnies,I,m sure we could have a great chinwaggle,but mate,....there are some very ****ty people out there who have no scruples...and MT DOES HAVE A GOOD POINT...call them what you want,..the bottom line is they have no respect for themselves or for the industry
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: NZ
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
there are some very ****ty people out there who have no scruples...and MT DOES HAVE A GOOD POINT...call them what you want,..the bottom line is they have no respect for themselves or for the industry
Having been through a couple of industrial actions, I understand the issues, but I believe it is imperative to maintain some level of dignity, and not jump to conclusions. It is not always obvious what is going on. Not everybody crosses a picket line without being compelled to do so, as we saw during the '89 dispute.
Over a few tinnies,I,m sure we could have a great chinwaggle
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: with the porangi,s in Pohara
Age: 66
Posts: 983
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RD....point taken ,and will admit to being on both sides of the fence...and have learned the error in my ways...."young fella V,S ol fella"....I,m not without skeletons....an honest admission
Back to Mt Chook.....in the current sagarso,where do the these blokes stand?...is thuggery prevalent or do we have a well versed negotiating group at the helm able to control the lower ranking members to say....um err...stop them from burning mgts house,s down.
To err is human,to blame somebody,everybody else shows true mgt potential.
Back to Mt Chook.....in the current sagarso,where do the these blokes stand?...is thuggery prevalent or do we have a well versed negotiating group at the helm able to control the lower ranking members to say....um err...stop them from burning mgts house,s down.
To err is human,to blame somebody,everybody else shows true mgt potential.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: That's for me to know
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Love the banter chaps!
Anyway, Thurs 10th Aug is the Employment Relations Authority facilitation. We shall see..............
I hear you MT but PB-
your balanced and sensible posts enhance this thread markebly.
Anyway, Thurs 10th Aug is the Employment Relations Authority facilitation. We shall see..............
I hear you MT but PB-
your balanced and sensible posts enhance this thread markebly.
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Raw Data
People who act like that have no place in professional aviation/ you really don't have the moral character to be in charge of an aircraft... 
Interesting .... I have witnessed some of the most un-proffessional behaviour from non-Union types (High speed crz when not required, allowance claims when not entitled, extending duties based soley on additional payments, industrial discussions at inappropriate times, shocking conduct with the Flight attendants) ........... and so on.
And I'm not sure why!..... they certainly "talk the company talk" but they often dont "walk the talk" (not that managment would ever witness this) maybe they are attempting to re-empower themselves, what-ever .... there seems to be a culture of " getting one over" the company and their collegues buy not being seen to "make waves" or "standout".... does this make them ideal employees??
The frustrating thing is they garner grace and favor for this (in my opinion) un-proffesional conduct, and worst of all benefit from Union negotiations they havent contributed to and often tried to undermine ...........
Maybe we need to talk to their Mother's !!!!!!
On the other hand, Union members seem more inclined to "play by the rules"
As for the "S" word......... "Sycophant"............
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: NZ
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You seem to suggest un-professionalism is a Union based phenomenon.
The REALLY unprofessional ones are the pilots that take advantage of industrial disputes to feather their own nests. They effectively undermine the unions, and can remove the element of negotiation from the dispute. Ansett NZ were very, very keen to break the strike by importing pilots from overseas - I think it is to the credit of the pilots they contacted that few, if any, took up employment.
You'll get unprofessional behaviour from both union and non-union people, when it comes to line flying. I don't believe that the conduct of pilots on the line has anything to do with union membership. People are people are people... some have a reasonable moral framework, others are entirely self-centred. In the airline I worked for in the UK, union membership was very high, and I'm sure that the reason was that the union was seen as measured and responsible. They certainly helped me out a few times, so I will always support them, and by implication their brother unions, of which NZALPA is one.
What I will never support is the idea that people who do not agree with the union line should be subjected to abuse, intimidation, violence or any combination thereof. It never changes anything, and it has the potential to wreck lives... but mostly, it is just thuggery. Not something that professional pilot should ever indulge in, regardless of what they may have been through.
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Was it the Ansett rep's applying the Borax or others ??
I think you may find things have changed a little at NZALPA. Some may say they are a bit soft now !!!... but I agree negotiation is preferable to war.
At the end of the day, in NZ one has the right to withdraw (or not) ones labour if required (never an enjoyable experience, which may explain the high emotions/threats at such times)
However if you belong to a union, ultimately you must be prepared to stand up for youself on the picket line or face the concessionary slide (see the current Oz situation) that will inevitably come.
The Company has the gold, you have the labour, both have what the other wants.... a balance will be found or all concerned will lose. Airline managment understand this better than anyone
I tend to think a "work to rule" is a waste of time as it can become messy.... induviduals can be targeted, and I'm not sure its a legal form of industrial action.
I think you may find things have changed a little at NZALPA. Some may say they are a bit soft now !!!... but I agree negotiation is preferable to war.
At the end of the day, in NZ one has the right to withdraw (or not) ones labour if required (never an enjoyable experience, which may explain the high emotions/threats at such times)
However if you belong to a union, ultimately you must be prepared to stand up for youself on the picket line or face the concessionary slide (see the current Oz situation) that will inevitably come.
The Company has the gold, you have the labour, both have what the other wants.... a balance will be found or all concerned will lose. Airline managment understand this better than anyone
I tend to think a "work to rule" is a waste of time as it can become messy.... induviduals can be targeted, and I'm not sure its a legal form of industrial action.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: NZ
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys,
I was one of the locked out Ansett NZ pilots, and it is an admirable thing that you did by declining a lucrative contract offered by an increasingly desperate company. From my colleagues and I....thank-you. I know many who did likewise, and some of their situations were such that the offered job would have been extremely tempting.
To the "dirty dozen" who did accept jobs during that period, the actions of those who chose not to, makes your actions even more despicable. I guess it emphasises the selfishness of those who epitimise the "s" word, in one of the only recent disputes where the term can be accurately used.
Whilst I am the first to admit fault on behalf of both the pilots and the company, outsiders should have stayed outside!
I am extremely disappointed that members or staff of "my" union acted in an unprofessional manner towards those who had the courtesy to enquire as to the situation when offered contracts. Hopefully we have progressed beyond such actions and as one of the pilots represented at the time, I apologise if my representatives caused offence.
I make no apology, however, for any actions towards the "dirty dozen". Their actions are indefenceable and I would like to think they are made to regret it for the rest of their carreers. Yes, I guess that sounds bitter and twisted, but I don't let it affect my life. Am I "over it".?...yeah, I've moved on and am happy with my position, and more importantly, I have no regrets....but I will NEVER have a beer and talk about the old times with one of those S...s
I was one of the locked out Ansett NZ pilots, and it is an admirable thing that you did by declining a lucrative contract offered by an increasingly desperate company. From my colleagues and I....thank-you. I know many who did likewise, and some of their situations were such that the offered job would have been extremely tempting.
To the "dirty dozen" who did accept jobs during that period, the actions of those who chose not to, makes your actions even more despicable. I guess it emphasises the selfishness of those who epitimise the "s" word, in one of the only recent disputes where the term can be accurately used.
Whilst I am the first to admit fault on behalf of both the pilots and the company, outsiders should have stayed outside!
I am extremely disappointed that members or staff of "my" union acted in an unprofessional manner towards those who had the courtesy to enquire as to the situation when offered contracts. Hopefully we have progressed beyond such actions and as one of the pilots represented at the time, I apologise if my representatives caused offence.
I make no apology, however, for any actions towards the "dirty dozen". Their actions are indefenceable and I would like to think they are made to regret it for the rest of their carreers. Yes, I guess that sounds bitter and twisted, but I don't let it affect my life. Am I "over it".?...yeah, I've moved on and am happy with my position, and more importantly, I have no regrets....but I will NEVER have a beer and talk about the old times with one of those S...s
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: NZ
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pilots Union
How well is the pilots union acting for the Mount Cook pilots during this present industrial action? Presume they are acting for most of the pilots. Didn't know there was so much history and so many bitter and twisted people out there. Gosh the managers in airlines must be a real bunch of wallies.. They must be from another planet..
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: NZ
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
slamer.
I'm not really sure... it was just the guy I got put through to when I called NZALPA. Young and male.
Just out of interest, what happened to the website that had a list of those who crossed the line? It seems to have disappeared... anybody know?
Was it the Ansett rep's applying the Borax or others ??
Just out of interest, what happened to the website that had a list of those who crossed the line? It seems to have disappeared... anybody know?
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bonner Bylsma
Wally Pendray\Barry Miles
Gordon Flynn
Brian Whelan
Ray Pilbrow
Steve Ackalnd
steve ewan
dave palmer\
paul wright\gavin lee
these used to be oneof us. Many ore to be added, Hard as these were scabs but the rest were super scabs that came for our jobs.
Wally Pendray\Barry Miles
Gordon Flynn
Brian Whelan
Ray Pilbrow
Steve Ackalnd
steve ewan
dave palmer\
paul wright\gavin lee
these used to be oneof us. Many ore to be added, Hard as these were scabs but the rest were super scabs that came for our jobs.
Last edited by grumpy_bugger; 7th Aug 2006 at 18:49.
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: The Orion Arm
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now that the thread has well and truly drifted off, and names have been mentioned - Barry Miles' only "crime" was that he ended up being wrong. At least he stood up in a meeting and basically told everyone where he believed we were wrong and why he was walking away. In other words, he had the guts to reveal his convictions.
On the other hand that snake Bonne Bylsma was in the pocket of a corrupt and bankrupt (morally and otherwise) management, organising training for the super-scabs at the same time he was applauding the union negotiators for a job well done! Good work Bonne, you really sold everyone, even the other scabs, a dummy there. If he has ended up at Air National then somehow, that seems fitting, though I can't quite think why.
No prizes for working out what "Acts bent as" is an anagram of.
However, I still believe that the main reason the wheels fell off the union wagon was that the quite uncontrollable "Wild" Wes was at the controls. Somebody should have tied him down, because "thinking smarter" was definitely not his modus operandi.
But the last laugh must surely rest with former CEO Kevin Dodderell who, fresh from his fraud conviction, was last heard from selling fertiliser.
Ya gotta love that.
On the other hand that
snake Bonne Bylsma was in the pocket of a corrupt and bankrupt (morally and otherwise) management, organising training for the super-scabs at the same time he was applauding the union negotiators for a job well done! Good work Bonne, you really sold everyone, even the other scabs, a dummy there. If he has ended up at Air National then somehow, that seems fitting, though I can't quite think why.No prizes for working out what "Acts bent as" is an anagram of.
However, I still believe that the main reason the wheels fell off the union wagon was that the quite uncontrollable "Wild" Wes was at the controls. Somebody should have tied him down, because "thinking smarter" was definitely not his modus operandi.
But the last laugh must surely rest with former CEO Kevin Dodderell who, fresh from his fraud conviction, was last heard from selling fertiliser.
Ya gotta love that.
Last edited by deadhead; 8th Aug 2006 at 01:49.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Super scab
Mr Bylsma doesn't work at Air Nat anymore. Didn't quite fit in with the company culture. F#@king idjit. Should feel quite at home at emrats though.
Now where's my asprin gone?!!??
Now where's my asprin gone?!!??