Spanish ATC
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Barcelona, SPAIN
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First a reminder of how ATCFM works but please keep reading for the interesting part below.
It’s not the tower controller the one to set CTOTs for aircraft on the ground. It’s the CFMU in Brussels, using all of the information gathered for sector capacity and weather enroute for the whole of Europe. The job of the tower controller is to relay this information and make sure the CTOT is met to insure there are no overloads on any sector in the route.
If there are several CTOTs coinciding in time, then blame CFMU, but at any rate that is exactly the reason there is a -5+10 buffer time, to organise a departure sequence. Notice that this buffer is to be used for this reason only, as the system works best when the CTOT is met exactly.
I think you should be a lot more interested in what the actual causes for the delays are, and those are no other than ATC staff shortages since we are falling prey to stress related illnesses in an snowballing fashion due to increased pressure. Let me give you some examples:
Last Friday a tower controller at LEVC that had been alone on duty had asked for got a denial for a reduction in incoming traffic. He finally fainted and was evacuated in an ambulance.
Eight of us were on sick leave last Thursday evening at LECB. Traffic flow regulations were not initially set on place, which meant that rather than the 33 aircraft per hour which is the mandated limit for a collapsed sector, there were 52. At least two of the controllers on duty that evening had anxiety attacks and went on sick leave the next day.
I was one of the initial eight missing. I assure you it’s not easy to accept. I am generally known to be a most serene person, I was selected among thousands in a psychological test as frustration resistant, and I actually enjoy having a decent amount of traffic on the frequency to test my skills. And yet on Thursday morning there I was crying like a little baby waiting to be attended of an acute anxiety attack.
But of course we have been trained to deal with aircraft, not soulless beancounters (and save yourselves any comments about low standards in Spain, I may actually agree with many of those). Its been months now that the pendulum has gone full swing. We may have been possibly overpayed, but at least rest periods were reasonable and staffing levels assured that we went close to maximum capacity only for short periods of time. All that is long gone. Anybody older that 57 has been retired from the frequency by decree, no matter what their health status was. And now everybody is working longer hours, many more days a month, in dreadful conditions and under the constant scrutiny of management, which is quick to take disciplinary action.
Even with all those measures, because they have not enrolled any new controllers since 2006 and actually sent home too many, and as they are already maxing us out with 200 hours per month, sometimes with only ONE day free in the month, they are actually planning on introducing monocontroller radar positions everywhere. You may have heard of those: Lake Constanza.
It’s in this environment, where after months of company mobbing traffic picks up in summer and people are simply breaking up.
But then, I ask you. Are you really feeling safe knowing that when you are flying to Girona, only one out of the four controllers that should have been there is present at the tower? The tower had to close for two hours just to give him his mandatory resting period, but of course he was maxed out the rest of the day.
Do you think that there has been any safety studies involved when management has decided that the same 80 movements per hour can be allowed at LEBL when they are up to four people short than if there is full staff?
Do you really believe that it is conducting to safe operations than when more and more people are breaking apart due to stress levels, AENA assigns mandatory shifts for the very few that actually have a day off, or altogether cancels holidays?
I started my aviation days in the UK. And it was there that I learned that when things get rough that is precisely when you have to stick the most to procedure, because that is what they are there for. The calculations for sector loads work when everybody departs at the calculated time, they fly their expected routes and maintain their reported flight level. Or would you rather have been the one in the pack of the 50% overloaded sector?
Rest assured all of this is now been reported to EASA directly, after months of disregard from our own national safety agency.
We have also grown used to the press regurgitating AENA’s press releases verbatim accusing us of simply not showing up for work, even though all of us on sick leave are so by doctor prescription. But I have to say that I am most depressed by watching the response of many pilots on this thread. My life may be miserable nowadays, but yours are the ones at stake. Don’t you forget that.
I am sorry about the hours of delay you are enduring. If it is any consolation I had been looking forward to a holiday in France next week already paid for that I won’t enjoy now since I’m on sick leave. We are trying our best to maintain a safe operation in an environment fast degrading. And I think that should be first in all of our minds. Specially yours.
Kind regards.
Juan.
It’s not the tower controller the one to set CTOTs for aircraft on the ground. It’s the CFMU in Brussels, using all of the information gathered for sector capacity and weather enroute for the whole of Europe. The job of the tower controller is to relay this information and make sure the CTOT is met to insure there are no overloads on any sector in the route.
If there are several CTOTs coinciding in time, then blame CFMU, but at any rate that is exactly the reason there is a -5+10 buffer time, to organise a departure sequence. Notice that this buffer is to be used for this reason only, as the system works best when the CTOT is met exactly.
I think you should be a lot more interested in what the actual causes for the delays are, and those are no other than ATC staff shortages since we are falling prey to stress related illnesses in an snowballing fashion due to increased pressure. Let me give you some examples:
Last Friday a tower controller at LEVC that had been alone on duty had asked for got a denial for a reduction in incoming traffic. He finally fainted and was evacuated in an ambulance.
Eight of us were on sick leave last Thursday evening at LECB. Traffic flow regulations were not initially set on place, which meant that rather than the 33 aircraft per hour which is the mandated limit for a collapsed sector, there were 52. At least two of the controllers on duty that evening had anxiety attacks and went on sick leave the next day.
I was one of the initial eight missing. I assure you it’s not easy to accept. I am generally known to be a most serene person, I was selected among thousands in a psychological test as frustration resistant, and I actually enjoy having a decent amount of traffic on the frequency to test my skills. And yet on Thursday morning there I was crying like a little baby waiting to be attended of an acute anxiety attack.
But of course we have been trained to deal with aircraft, not soulless beancounters (and save yourselves any comments about low standards in Spain, I may actually agree with many of those). Its been months now that the pendulum has gone full swing. We may have been possibly overpayed, but at least rest periods were reasonable and staffing levels assured that we went close to maximum capacity only for short periods of time. All that is long gone. Anybody older that 57 has been retired from the frequency by decree, no matter what their health status was. And now everybody is working longer hours, many more days a month, in dreadful conditions and under the constant scrutiny of management, which is quick to take disciplinary action.
Even with all those measures, because they have not enrolled any new controllers since 2006 and actually sent home too many, and as they are already maxing us out with 200 hours per month, sometimes with only ONE day free in the month, they are actually planning on introducing monocontroller radar positions everywhere. You may have heard of those: Lake Constanza.
It’s in this environment, where after months of company mobbing traffic picks up in summer and people are simply breaking up.
But then, I ask you. Are you really feeling safe knowing that when you are flying to Girona, only one out of the four controllers that should have been there is present at the tower? The tower had to close for two hours just to give him his mandatory resting period, but of course he was maxed out the rest of the day.
Do you think that there has been any safety studies involved when management has decided that the same 80 movements per hour can be allowed at LEBL when they are up to four people short than if there is full staff?
Do you really believe that it is conducting to safe operations than when more and more people are breaking apart due to stress levels, AENA assigns mandatory shifts for the very few that actually have a day off, or altogether cancels holidays?
I started my aviation days in the UK. And it was there that I learned that when things get rough that is precisely when you have to stick the most to procedure, because that is what they are there for. The calculations for sector loads work when everybody departs at the calculated time, they fly their expected routes and maintain their reported flight level. Or would you rather have been the one in the pack of the 50% overloaded sector?
Rest assured all of this is now been reported to EASA directly, after months of disregard from our own national safety agency.
We have also grown used to the press regurgitating AENA’s press releases verbatim accusing us of simply not showing up for work, even though all of us on sick leave are so by doctor prescription. But I have to say that I am most depressed by watching the response of many pilots on this thread. My life may be miserable nowadays, but yours are the ones at stake. Don’t you forget that.
I am sorry about the hours of delay you are enduring. If it is any consolation I had been looking forward to a holiday in France next week already paid for that I won’t enjoy now since I’m on sick leave. We are trying our best to maintain a safe operation in an environment fast degrading. And I think that should be first in all of our minds. Specially yours.
Kind regards.
Juan.
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Thank you Juan for an open letter.
We in the aviation business should work together for all safety matters. I don't believe that the way you and your colleagues are going about this is correct. As I see it, it is you vs the government, so what you do is take it out on airlines.
Stress is something we all have to deal with on a daily basis. I have had my pay reduced, my pension reduced by half, I'm working 90+ hours every 28 days. My shifts are totally random, days nights earlies ... This I cope with by having an active life outside aviation. What really makes by blood pressure rise is sitting ( yet again) at a Spanish airport for hours, being talk at by rude ignorant controller, trying to lecture me about what a slot time means ( and getting it wrong).
By all means work to rule, just try and do that bit well.
We in the aviation business should work together for all safety matters. I don't believe that the way you and your colleagues are going about this is correct. As I see it, it is you vs the government, so what you do is take it out on airlines.
Stress is something we all have to deal with on a daily basis. I have had my pay reduced, my pension reduced by half, I'm working 90+ hours every 28 days. My shifts are totally random, days nights earlies ... This I cope with by having an active life outside aviation. What really makes by blood pressure rise is sitting ( yet again) at a Spanish airport for hours, being talk at by rude ignorant controller, trying to lecture me about what a slot time means ( and getting it wrong).
By all means work to rule, just try and do that bit well.
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Spanish ATC
Kick the tires said: "and in Madrid, I have witnessed some of the worst ATC in Europe, from some of the most highly paid"
You can't win them all.
Some countries are good at ATC and bad at Football
Spain is the opposite.
France is bad at both.
You can't win them all.
Some countries are good at ATC and bad at Football
Spain is the opposite.
France is bad at both.
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Heres my situation when I was flying to Ibiza from the UK
Gerona, This G-$%LG
G-LG Pass your message
G-LG PA-28 out of Poitiers bound for Sabadell routing Perpignan, Girona currently 30nm north of yourselves FL 75 request a zone transit.
G-LG cleared for a zone transit direct Girona VOR. Report overhead.
......Some minutes later after reporting several positions from the VOR.
G-LG please descend to 2,500 feet and turn onto a heading of 270, you are blocking inbound Ryanair traffic
Can Not Comply, you are requesting I descend into a mountain to the west. G-LG
G-LG, I am having to route the IFR traffic around you.
Your the one who cleared me in the first place to this route. G-LG.
The other situation.....Barcelona giving me 4 incorrect frequencies for Ibiza approach/Palma control.....having to ask Mr Thomson 757 inbound at FL180 for correct one, after no answer on frequencies off chart.
Maybe wed be better off without them
Gerona, This G-$%LG
G-LG Pass your message
G-LG PA-28 out of Poitiers bound for Sabadell routing Perpignan, Girona currently 30nm north of yourselves FL 75 request a zone transit.
G-LG cleared for a zone transit direct Girona VOR. Report overhead.
......Some minutes later after reporting several positions from the VOR.
G-LG please descend to 2,500 feet and turn onto a heading of 270, you are blocking inbound Ryanair traffic
Can Not Comply, you are requesting I descend into a mountain to the west. G-LG
G-LG, I am having to route the IFR traffic around you.
Your the one who cleared me in the first place to this route. G-LG.
The other situation.....Barcelona giving me 4 incorrect frequencies for Ibiza approach/Palma control.....having to ask Mr Thomson 757 inbound at FL180 for correct one, after no answer on frequencies off chart.
Maybe wed be better off without them
Yes, but surely trains stayed on the tracks, rather than asking for direct cross-country routes and then bleating when they were denied?
PS We didn't give trains level changes instructions too often.
This thread makes most of you look like children!
Last edited by fireflybob; 18th Jul 2010 at 13:39.
By all means work to rule, just try and do that bit well.
As I see it, it is you vs the government, so what you do is take it out on airlines.
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Quote from Chesty Morgan:
They are simply working to the limit of their capacity
And why has that capacity suddenly reduced so significantly?!
How about because the ministry of transportation, in their infinite wisdom, when releasing the royal decree decided to retire form any operational post all and any person over 57y.o.
Just like that, no mitigating measures, just all out from one day to the next. It should be obvious to anybody that if you just do that, you're gonna end up with less staff than you need (especially if you haven't hired in 4 years...you know, people die and stuff). So since February staff has effectively been reduced by approximately 25% (don't know the hard number, but this what I've gathered, so treat it with the appropriate caution).
Matter of fact, the whole thing is soooooo bad that some controllers are doing over 200 hours a month. Compulsory. And that IS shift work (sometimes the only day off they get is after a night shift...which where I work is called a sleeping day. Sometimes not even that and they have to work also the very same afternoon).
Anyway I digress: it's soooo bad because also this royal decree states that controllers will not exceed 1670 hours per year (they can opt for 80 overtime so total 1750h but they are desperate for time off...you know people have families and things called hobbies and such). Let me do the math: 200x12=2400h. If you think summer is bad wait for it. This is just a warm up (pun intended).
But hey people, keep ranting, don't let me disturb you or your conscience.
A.
They are simply working to the limit of their capacity
And why has that capacity suddenly reduced so significantly?!
How about because the ministry of transportation, in their infinite wisdom, when releasing the royal decree decided to retire form any operational post all and any person over 57y.o.
Just like that, no mitigating measures, just all out from one day to the next. It should be obvious to anybody that if you just do that, you're gonna end up with less staff than you need (especially if you haven't hired in 4 years...you know, people die and stuff). So since February staff has effectively been reduced by approximately 25% (don't know the hard number, but this what I've gathered, so treat it with the appropriate caution).
Matter of fact, the whole thing is soooooo bad that some controllers are doing over 200 hours a month. Compulsory. And that IS shift work (sometimes the only day off they get is after a night shift...which where I work is called a sleeping day. Sometimes not even that and they have to work also the very same afternoon).
Anyway I digress: it's soooo bad because also this royal decree states that controllers will not exceed 1670 hours per year (they can opt for 80 overtime so total 1750h but they are desperate for time off...you know people have families and things called hobbies and such). Let me do the math: 200x12=2400h. If you think summer is bad wait for it. This is just a warm up (pun intended).
But hey people, keep ranting, don't let me disturb you or your conscience.
A.
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Juan,
Nice post , dont expect most here to understand ,, good at moaning about their own terms and conditions being eroded and jealous of anybody with better ones . Much easier for most to regurgitate the AENA / management bullet points and see only one side of the coin or just plain not inform themselves.
You make a very good point that the underlying issues effect the safety of the very people who are decrying you. Many european people have a very stereotypical view of the Spanish sadly also which doesnt help things. The fact is if the same cuts were made to say the NHS there would be sick and injured people stacked up outside accident and emergency quickly followed by a civil coup.
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Criss, I understand why you think a/c having the same slot is implausable but it happened. Im not the only one reporting this. If you work in atc then take a look at what is actually happening on a daily basis rather than trying to pretend the spanish are no worse than any other atc.
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ATC work to rule
First of all state that the french ATC is also currently carrying out the work to rule method to claim what they think they deserve. I have suffered it the last weeks on the Paris and Reims sectors with the same results as you describe above (no better levels, no shortcuts) And for those that feel treated unequally just go to CDG and you'll get tired of giving way to AF flights, both airborne and on the ground, even towed!! (This is for Alpinepilot, no hard feelings s.v.p.)
It's the means they have to put preasure on their administrators, maybe if we pilots were less coward and did the same we'd be enjoying much better T's & C's or at least not seeing them worsening by the minute while managers' bonuses don't seem to be affected by the recession. If any, they're the enemy, not ATC or ourselves as one can extract from reading most of the posts here.
Another issue here is mixing the matter of their work-to-rule (like it or not) right and the good or bad they are, the same applies for their salary. As far as I'm concerned there are no more accidents or incidents than elsewhere in EU (please no comments on Tenerife, that's long away enough...). Regarding the salary I'd gladly start a thread on politians' salaries or even on aviation managers' salaries and its relation to their succes on their duties. Join me?
The point I am trying to make here is that we should take care of our own business and let them (ATC) deal with theirs. Of course it afects us but this is life, we have to be mature enough to put ourselves into the other's skin and do not be so selfish. Just take a flight as a passenger and have any tech or weather issue and listen to your travel mates' comments, then you'll realise how much they hate us when things don't go as they wished (don't say you're a pilot then!
), you'll hear how much we earn, how many days off we have, all the affairs we have with the cabin crew and the rest of the legends... Not to mention if it's a strike or something related to duty time and rest periods!
I hope this serves to some of you to rethink about this; for the rest: I'm ready to be eaten!
It's the means they have to put preasure on their administrators, maybe if we pilots were less coward and did the same we'd be enjoying much better T's & C's or at least not seeing them worsening by the minute while managers' bonuses don't seem to be affected by the recession. If any, they're the enemy, not ATC or ourselves as one can extract from reading most of the posts here.
Another issue here is mixing the matter of their work-to-rule (like it or not) right and the good or bad they are, the same applies for their salary. As far as I'm concerned there are no more accidents or incidents than elsewhere in EU (please no comments on Tenerife, that's long away enough...). Regarding the salary I'd gladly start a thread on politians' salaries or even on aviation managers' salaries and its relation to their succes on their duties. Join me?
The point I am trying to make here is that we should take care of our own business and let them (ATC) deal with theirs. Of course it afects us but this is life, we have to be mature enough to put ourselves into the other's skin and do not be so selfish. Just take a flight as a passenger and have any tech or weather issue and listen to your travel mates' comments, then you'll realise how much they hate us when things don't go as they wished (don't say you're a pilot then!
), you'll hear how much we earn, how many days off we have, all the affairs we have with the cabin crew and the rest of the legends... Not to mention if it's a strike or something related to duty time and rest periods!I hope this serves to some of you to rethink about this; for the rest: I'm ready to be eaten!
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Why is it that after you pass big mountains although the wages go up, the ATC just becomes a noisy hinderance that just adds to endless confusion.
"the runway in Murcia is....." Yeah, sure it is, i just spoke to them too
Pisa, Ibiza and today Malaga with Seville radar just making things worse.
You know it's bad when people just start organising descent speeds etc between themselves on guard with each other!!!!
Split on the other hand seems to be run by people who seem to know something about what we as operators need
"the runway in Murcia is....." Yeah, sure it is, i just spoke to them too
Pisa, Ibiza and today Malaga with Seville radar just making things worse.
You know it's bad when people just start organising descent speeds etc between themselves on guard with each other!!!!
Split on the other hand seems to be run by people who seem to know something about what we as operators need
Mmmmm PPruuune!
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While I can empathise to some degree about the situation what I do not accept is the peripheral pettiness displayed specifically at Agp, Alc, Pmi, Bcn where there is a complete lack of cooperation and flexibility which has nothing to do flow control and everything to do with willful obstruction. In the past 2 weeks I have personally experienced and been witness to at least a dozen episodes and 3 airborne arguments over the RT; in over 15 years I have never known such a I am now ASRing any such event but I feel the frustrations will build and become a serious flight safety issue unless something is done soon.
Meanwhile it is the passengers that suffer.
Meanwhile it is the passengers that suffer.
I feel the frustrations will build and become a serious flight safety issue unless something is done soon.
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Glad to announce to Spanish and French ATCO's that my company has officially asked us to report any operational incidents within their airspace, even those we would normally accept as spurious harmless mistakes.
This means that we will be monitoring every operational step from R/T's to radar to on-ground services and officially report anything done in a non-standard way or that may have even the smallest negative impact on the operation of our aircraft.
This means that we will be monitoring every operational step from R/T's to radar to on-ground services and officially report anything done in a non-standard way or that may have even the smallest negative impact on the operation of our aircraft.
Retaliation at MAD...
MAD ATC:
"Can you make a long push to allow a pushback from Stand Tx?"
Pilot:
"Negative".
MAD ATC:
"Can you please move forward over the holding point 15A (or 15B) to allow a widebody on taxiway A to pass behind?"
Pilot:
"Negative".
"Can you make a long push to allow a pushback from Stand Tx?"
Pilot:
"Negative".
MAD ATC:
"Can you please move forward over the holding point 15A (or 15B) to allow a widebody on taxiway A to pass behind?"
Pilot:
"Negative".
Studi, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN SPANISH ATC !!!
Actually you are another of many ignorant pilots who post rubbish because you just don't understand what's at stake here. If the Spanish government gets away with what it did it could affect all of us in the long run. This is NOT just about money. You need to understand the problem before you start spouting off.
I'm off on my hols now.
Actually you are another of many ignorant pilots who post rubbish because you just don't understand what's at stake here. If the Spanish government gets away with what it did it could affect all of us in the long run. This is NOT just about money. You need to understand the problem before you start spouting off.
I'm off on my hols now.
Gender Faculty Specialist
Avman et al, you honestly expect us to believe your selfless actions are for the greater good of all of us? Well thanks but no thanks.
If the situation in Spanish ATC is not just about money and it's about you doing 200 hours a month with only one day off and you feel that you can't safely do your job then file an ASR (you do know what they are don't you?) and call in sick. Don't come to work and screw things up for every other person that has to use your "service".
Don't we all but your selfish, ignorant actions are preventing other people from seeing their families and getting on with their lives. You don't realise or care about that do you.
You call yourselves professionals but you couldn't be further from the truth. If you are at work you do your job to the best of your ability. If you can't or wont then just stay at home and stop trying to hold the rest of the world to ransom. What little sympathy you may have had for your situation is slowly being eroded by your very own actions.
Man up or get out.
If the situation in Spanish ATC is not just about money and it's about you doing 200 hours a month with only one day off and you feel that you can't safely do your job then file an ASR (you do know what they are don't you?) and call in sick. Don't come to work and screw things up for every other person that has to use your "service".
...some controllers are doing over 200 hours a month. Compulsory...(sometimes the only day off they get is after a night shift...Sometimes not even that and they have to work also the very same afternoon)...it's soooo bad because also this royal decree states that controllers will not exceed 1670 hours per year (they can opt for 80 overtime so total 1750h but they are desperate for time off...you know people have families and things called hobbies and such). Let me do the math: 200x12=2400h...
You call yourselves professionals but you couldn't be further from the truth. If you are at work you do your job to the best of your ability. If you can't or wont then just stay at home and stop trying to hold the rest of the world to ransom. What little sympathy you may have had for your situation is slowly being eroded by your very own actions.
Man up or get out.
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You guys still don't know a sh*t about the problem, and there are a couple of very enlightening posts, like that of Juan.
You simply don't know.
After what the government did, the natural consequence would have been a total strike. And that is exactly what the government was waiting for.
It didn't occur, so now they are making a carpet bombing media campaing to make the ignorant people (including many of you, I'm afraid) believe that there is an undercover strike.
The ATCOs are just trying to survive all the carpet bombings and torpedos under the float line they have been thrown.
I am not a spanish ATCO myself. I am only a pilot who understands that there is some reason when the ATCOs go to strike, when the Madrid undergroud workers go to strike, when the french ATCOs or whatever workers go to strike.
You prefer the theory that they are evil, in their very nature, which is quite a childish way of thinking, isn't it?
I understand a bit more about the problem than the vast majority of you. It is quite complex, believe me, and the ATCOs didn't start it, nor know how to stop it. The situation is very critical, they don't even have a path to retreat. At any time a serious incident, or something much worse (god forbid) can happen. Watch out.
Don`t rely on the media, they are just a part of the problem. Today, all media agree regarding the ATCOs. Agreement from the far left to the far right. Amazing. Only because the big companys behind the media groups agree that AENA and the spanish airports should be privatized. After they succeed, there will be agreement no more, and a battle will begin when who will get the golden eggs chicken is to be decided.
If you guys don't know that AENA and the airports are the golden eggs chicken, then guys... You don't know a sh*t, and pardon me. It is. If they privatize I will invest all my savings to buy shares (if there is any left).
You are suffering massive delays and cancelations, only because there are people who want to STEAL a lot of money from all the spaniards. that's it.
So watch out, because the situation is completely out of control of the ATCos. It is not in their hands to solve the problem. If they just work as they are demanded, they will collapse. They are collapsing, now. if they don't, then you will have faulty ATCOs controlling you.
But don't worry. Almost unnoticed has gone the fact that ATC services are being liberalized, and in about 10 years you will be controlled by Pay to Control ATCOs. How about that???
And all thanks to EUROPE, that stupid word they have used to steal us more efficently and expeditiously.
You simply don't know.
After what the government did, the natural consequence would have been a total strike. And that is exactly what the government was waiting for.
It didn't occur, so now they are making a carpet bombing media campaing to make the ignorant people (including many of you, I'm afraid) believe that there is an undercover strike.
The ATCOs are just trying to survive all the carpet bombings and torpedos under the float line they have been thrown.
I am not a spanish ATCO myself. I am only a pilot who understands that there is some reason when the ATCOs go to strike, when the Madrid undergroud workers go to strike, when the french ATCOs or whatever workers go to strike.
You prefer the theory that they are evil, in their very nature, which is quite a childish way of thinking, isn't it?
I understand a bit more about the problem than the vast majority of you. It is quite complex, believe me, and the ATCOs didn't start it, nor know how to stop it. The situation is very critical, they don't even have a path to retreat. At any time a serious incident, or something much worse (god forbid) can happen. Watch out.
Don`t rely on the media, they are just a part of the problem. Today, all media agree regarding the ATCOs. Agreement from the far left to the far right. Amazing. Only because the big companys behind the media groups agree that AENA and the spanish airports should be privatized. After they succeed, there will be agreement no more, and a battle will begin when who will get the golden eggs chicken is to be decided.
If you guys don't know that AENA and the airports are the golden eggs chicken, then guys... You don't know a sh*t, and pardon me. It is. If they privatize I will invest all my savings to buy shares (if there is any left).
You are suffering massive delays and cancelations, only because there are people who want to STEAL a lot of money from all the spaniards. that's it.
So watch out, because the situation is completely out of control of the ATCos. It is not in their hands to solve the problem. If they just work as they are demanded, they will collapse. They are collapsing, now. if they don't, then you will have faulty ATCOs controlling you.
But don't worry. Almost unnoticed has gone the fact that ATC services are being liberalized, and in about 10 years you will be controlled by Pay to Control ATCOs. How about that???
And all thanks to EUROPE, that stupid word they have used to steal us more efficently and expeditiously.
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Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan
If the situation in Spanish ATC is not just about money and it's about you doing 200 hours a month with only one day off and you feel that you can't safely do your job then file an ASR (you do know what they are don't you?) and call in sick.
They've done just that, some of them have gone sick because they're breaking down, and now the ministry of infrastructure is demanding an investigation into why they're sick (seriously). But they're only gonna investigate if the doctors are allowing them off duty when they shouldn't (so I'm guessing that now they are gonna put it on the doctors to NOT give them time off for medical reasons). Put yourselves in their shoes here, imagine 28 duties in a month. Sometimes working all night and then an afternoon afterwards, then next morning. Sometimes you have to take your kids to work (!!). You do not get rest and even get sh!t when you've got some precious time off (news, uninformed people, informed people willing to screw'em up more). Tell me if you'd feel fit for duty after 6 months of this.
This past week Spanish union presented a proposal for new T&C's covering over 55% of the whole. AENA, so far, has only presented 12.5%. The company doesn't wanna negotiate.
I do not work in Spain but do try to keep myself well informed. This is not about money, this is about safety. The ministry and AENA (almost the same thing, when it shouldn't be) just want cheap overworked labour. Unfortunately in this business that is paired with something else. And the controllers are trying not to get there. I support them. If you do care any about it instead of just ranting try and do your part too. And by that I mean really look into it and complain about what you must, but not only about the controllers, it just shows you have no idea of the extent of what's going on.
Please note that I haven't mentioned a single time how good or bad they may be at their work. I do not know, and I've always said this. I do not work there, I do not fly there. But I do care about safety and I can tell you it is jeopardized here.
Politicians are running the show. You should be scared, very scared. (that's not a menace, just think about it, a person that has no idea of the aviation sector and only an agenda in mind calling the shots?) If you were reading the news you'll see a pattern, they only do things reactively, they never plan things in advance. When was it the last time that you saw an SOP were stated "if you run out of fuel in mid-air, just land and refuel"? That's how good them politicians are doing down there. That'd be unthinkable in this day and age, you plan before hand, you do NOT run out on mid air without another (severe) reason than lack of planning.
But as somebody already mentioned, it's your bottocks up there in the sky, not the controllers. They're not fighting for their T&C's with the work to rule. They're working to rule because that's what little they have been left to do. They're between you pilots and a hard place (mis-management, all the way up to the ministry). Spanish pilots have already understood this. Therefore the common task force that was set up last week. That task force, BTW, includes controllers, showing they also care about improving. Maybe you guys should also start caring and trying to do something about improving the service. Airmanship, anybody?
PD: a little note, an Air Safety Report may be available to you. We have something similar were I work, but it is not called ASR (do you know what it is called? it is pedantic of me to ask but since I should know yours...). Also tell me one thing. Do ASR's in the UK, or wherever it is your company is registered, go directly to CAA or EASA? I know in Spain those very reports (whatever they're called there) were not making it as far as they should. Now controllers are aware of it and sending copies directly to the European Air Safety Agency (not to be confused with AESA, the Spanish one, which does Jack about them).
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And how does making me wait until the very end of my slot help any of that?
It doesn't. It's just petty.
I don't know where you work so I wont know what your equivalent of an ASR is. We can request that any ASRs go to the CAA. There are certain reports that will automatically go to the CAA anyway.
I always do and I always have. Particularly in Spain. Seriously.
It doesn't. It's just petty.
I don't know where you work so I wont know what your equivalent of an ASR is. We can request that any ASRs go to the CAA. There are certain reports that will automatically go to the CAA anyway.
At any time a serious incident, or something much worse (god forbid) can happen. Watch out.