UK - NATS Pay negotiations - latest rumours

[jonny B good]

Here we go again. The Unions getting cosy with management and agreeing to something when they have not bothered to take any "informal" soundings from the shopfloor.
Going straight to ballot with both the Unions and management wanting a yes vote is a done deal.

Who do you think is producing the information on the Pensions situation, writing the letter to the Board, producing the Newsletters to inform staff and generally telling it as it is rather than what some corporate machine wants you to think?.. Oh, it's the Unions.

There is definately no cosy relationship. As for how a pay offer works, read the Q&A on ATCOs.co.uk . Whilst the Executives of each Union recommend the deal, it is for the individual members to decide for themselves. Each member of the Exec team has one vote, the same as every other member. The unions are attempting to provide as much information through the newsletters and websites etc as possible so members can make as informed a decision as possible. This is far from a done deal, but it will be the members who decide and not the Execs. Just weigh up the options and the implications of a yes or a no vote and make the choice you think correct. We'll all know the outcome soon enough.

ps. If any member doesn't recieve a ballot paper, ploease get straight in touch with your union office who can send a replacement asap.

[anotherthing]

To add to what Jonny has just said, make sure you bl00dy well vote, whatever box you want to tick.

30% non turn-out on the last ballot was pathetic... why be a member of the union if you can't even be bothered to post a pre paid addressed envelope?

Not voting in large numbers only tells management that the union membership (not the union exec) is weak and potentially a push over.

[kats-I]

eglnyt.

.If there is money available before August, why wouldn't the same amount still be available after August.? Does it suddenly disappear in a black whole or something. Surely it will still be based on Aug08 RPI
How can management suddenly say the money they had set aside has lessened? Surely they can't allot it to some other project. Still say we should take the gamble and vote NO.
Only You can decide what to do with your vote..you have obviously made your choice..hope its a good one.!

[kats-I]

Have the ballot papers been sent out???
WHY isn't it a ballot box in work areas..who decides on it being a postal vote????

Does anyone live near the postal address and could collect everyones vote and deliver it by hand to ensure they get there....yeah I know thats a long shot.

[Hial Flyer]

WHY isn't it a ballot box in work areas..who decides on it being a postal vote????

It is a postal vote so that the union and management can get their YES vote. Always is a Yes when it is a postal vote. Turnout is always a lot lower as well.

[jonny B good]

Postal Ballot

I think people need to move away from suggesting there is something sinister in a postal ballot.

I can only speak for the ATCO Branch below:

For local ballots, the normal procedure is to have it 'on unit' in a ballot box and the results will be counted by the local rep, with or without an observer.
For national ballots the procedure is to use a postal vote, which is scrutinised by Prospect centrally. The ballots are sent to the address Prospect hold for the member on their records (hence the importance of keeping your details up to date). Once the ballots are returned, they are counted by full-time prospect staff who work for Prospect centrally. They do not work for the ATCO Branch, nor are any of the lay reps (BEC/Execs) involved. NATS do not have any input into our processes at any stage.
The full-time Prospect staff counting the ballots have a professional reputation and conduct to abide by. It is wrong to question their integrity as any sign of them not adhering to laid down rules of conduct for ballots would result in action by Prospect. The Prospect staff sit outside the ATCO reps and will not seek to sway the result in any way.

Rather than insinuating any potential fraudulent behaviour, energy would be better spent in ensuring a strong turn out in the ballot to show NATS Management that we have a strong, engaged membership that is willing to make its voice heard. A high turnout, whatever the result, gives the Unions the confidence to face NATS down, when required, confident in the support of the members.

On a slightly different note, when we stand united, there is very little anyone can force us into. It is when we appear divided that splits and weaknesses can be exploited. Sometimes, what happens within this site does nothing to inform but simply gives the impression of a split workforce that is weak. Surely that is not the impression, even if true (which I would strongly reject), that we should be giving to management. If people wish to change things within the unions, please do so, but do it without weakening them. There are processes in place to make changes. We are going to need the Unions, and need them as strong as possible, in the future. The fight on many issues, in my humble opinion, is far from over!

(end of rant )

[eglnyt]

WHY isn't it a ballot box in work areas..who decides on it being a postal vote????

If it were a ballot box in the work area you'd have a number of problems to address. First how to ensure that every union member entitled to vote got a ballot form and anybody not entitled to vote didn't (remember the union may not have a complete list of where in NATS you work). Second what to do about the sizeable number of people in NATS with no fixed workplace. Third how to ensure that there was no intimidation in the area of the ballot box. Fourth how to make sure the ballot box was secure for a prolonged period, shift patterns may mean it's some time before everybody attends their place of work. Finally deciding who should count them and how to get them from the place of work to where they are counted.

Of course it would be better if we went back to the traditional method of mass show of hands or better still standing on a box one at a time and declaring our vote, that would obviously result in a much fairer vote

[kats-I]

eglnyt.

Everyone entitled to vote should have to sign for their ballot paper.

There never seems to be a security/intimidation problem around the ballot box when it is a "local"vote. So why can't all papers be collected and counted on a unit level.
I have no real objection to ballot papers being posted to home addresses...I do have a problem with returning it via outside postal service!!

[kats-I]

jonny B good

show NATS Management that we have a strong, engaged membership
that is willing to make its voice heard.

If we are to make our voice heard will the unions be recommending a "NO" vote.

[ToweringCu]

'I do have a problem with returning it via outside postal service!!'


Why?

[Standard Noise]

Probably because it is the weak link in the chain due to the fact that it's not always reliable.

[Ivor_Novello]

An electronic vote via secure internet/intranet connection to go with the individual login number.
You can set up one on a forum like this (or any free internet messaging boards) in less than a minute.

Goes straight to the count, so there's no even need for a "human" counter, and you can see the results in real time as soon as you clicked !

[anotherthing]

Other ANSPs (that haven't given £46M away in dividends)

HIAL pay award for 2009:

From another thread running on ATC Issues

Hial 1.99% a year for two years plus an anual (sic) bonus of 1.6%

So, still think NATS are giving us a good deal???

[kats-I]

anotherthing

I too saw that yesterday.. its a darn sight better than what we are expected to accept.
NATS are trying to make fools of us over this paydeal and anyone who says we have an OK deal proves it!!!


Ivor Novello.

Great Idea..soooo simple to set up too.

[mr.777]

I bet HIAL aren't represented by Prospect though are they?

[Radarspod]

So, still think NATS are giving us a good deal???

Maybe, maybe not, but I don't think HIAL is a fair comparison. I doubt that HIAL has the overheads that NATS does and I also doubt the staff costs are as high, so maybe they can squeeze a it more out in a pay deal.

[anotherthing]

Maybe, maybe not, but I don't think HIAL is a fair comparison.

Maybe... but it's a much more relevant comparison than the comparisons some people are trying to make on this thread between NATS, a successful company and some less frugal companies that have made redundancies.

Just because your neighbour has lost their job from Acme construction or whatever does not mean that we should think ourselves lucky we are being offered 2%

[PeltonLevel]

I bet HIAL aren't represented by Prospect though are they?

Is mr777 offering decent odds?
(I sometimes despair of the lack of industry knowledge displayed on this site!)

[mr.777]

So HIAL are representd by Prospect then are they? That just shows our payrise up for what it is then...doesn't it?

[kats-I]

Goose, Gander and Sauce comes to mind

Also double standards!!!