ATC VOLUNTARY OVERTIME BAN: Dublin Flights Delayed 25th January
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Quote from breaking news.ie
"The union says a resolution is still a long way off, but it agreed to suspend the action at the request of the chairman of the Labour Court"
"The union says a resolution is still a long way off, but it agreed to suspend the action at the request of the chairman of the Labour Court"
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Did I miss something?
Go to the iaa homepage, click on corporate & financial, click on press releases and go to page 2, this should bring you there:
http://www.iaa.ie/corp_fin/news.asp?intPage=2
try and call up 1st item
Why has this press release been withdrawn from the website or has someone answered this on this thread already?
http://www.iaa.ie/corp_fin/news.asp?intPage=2
try and call up 1st item
Why has this press release been withdrawn from the website or has someone answered this on this thread already?
Last edited by thorisgod; 25th Feb 2008 at 15:23. Reason: particulars
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I wouldn't read too much into that THORISGOD, the inability to set the website up properly is just another example of how generally slow they are.... LC probably just playing with her dolls at the moment... it will be fixed soon.... when 'dora the explorer' is over !
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To Quote the IAA
"There is no shortage of Air Traffic Controllers in the Irish Aviation Authority."
"The Irish Air Traffic Control System is not dependent on overtime."
"Overtime is voluntary."
So why are they in the Labour Court? There obviously isn't any problem.
No matter what happens next remember these words from the IAA the next time you are asked to work on your day off.
Don't ''fog'' the issue and ''orchestrate" "wildcat action".
Look deep into your scarred heart and remember how much the IAA appreciates your valuable contribution to the company.
"The Irish Air Traffic Control System is not dependent on overtime."
"Overtime is voluntary."
So why are they in the Labour Court? There obviously isn't any problem.
No matter what happens next remember these words from the IAA the next time you are asked to work on your day off.
Don't ''fog'' the issue and ''orchestrate" "wildcat action".
Look deep into your scarred heart and remember how much the IAA appreciates your valuable contribution to the company.
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Norby maybe you should buy a subscription to phoenix magazine....haven't read it myself for a while but a friend of mine does and he says that apparently they regularly comment on the IAA and the 'jobs for the boys'- culture that seems to prevail . So someone is keeping an eye on the whole situation........
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Phoenix
Thanks always movin, I might just do that!!
Im beginning to lose track of the IAA's train of logic.
If we refuse to do overtime to highlight the staffing crisis thereby reducing our income the IAA say its an attempt to extort a lucrative overtime payment scheme.
If we say that we need more staff so that we never have to do overtime and we can take all our leave the IAA say its an attempt to extort a lucrative overtime payment scheme.
The IAA call on the union to stop Fogging the issue as they need help understanding the bleeding obvious.
Maybe if we all handed back our expert assignments and take the pay cut for that we could prove to management that its not about money. Then, with all the staff off projects we wouldn't need OT and we could get our leave. Of course the IAA would have to find other ways to train new recruits and so on but that would be their problem wouldn't it? I mean with ALL that money they'd have saved on expert allowances they could find somebody to to the job as well as we could.
Im beginning to lose track of the IAA's train of logic.
If we refuse to do overtime to highlight the staffing crisis thereby reducing our income the IAA say its an attempt to extort a lucrative overtime payment scheme.
If we say that we need more staff so that we never have to do overtime and we can take all our leave the IAA say its an attempt to extort a lucrative overtime payment scheme.
The IAA call on the union to stop Fogging the issue as they need help understanding the bleeding obvious.
Maybe if we all handed back our expert assignments and take the pay cut for that we could prove to management that its not about money. Then, with all the staff off projects we wouldn't need OT and we could get our leave. Of course the IAA would have to find other ways to train new recruits and so on but that would be their problem wouldn't it? I mean with ALL that money they'd have saved on expert allowances they could find somebody to to the job as well as we could.
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Just read the aertel piece on the proceedings today... We have truely lost the media battle. WHAT THE HELL ARE OUR UNION DOING ABOUT THIS ???
Sorry guys and gals, but I think the war is over. We are willing but our union are not able for this level of coverage in the media. I must stress I am not directing my frustration and anger at our local teams... but completely at the higher ranks within IMPACT !
Ye have let us down from the start. If you expect members to stand with you, then protect them when the **** starts to fly. Ye have remained silent, and when ye did speak, it was over the heads of the average joe public who really believes this is about money... and were never really convinced otherwise.
I would be totally in favour now of just returning to work, before we as a group of unique professionals are slandered any more.
I have a lot of pride in my job, and especially with those i work with, and to hear whats being said and written about us is WRONG.
Maybe when the dust settles, a new union should be formed amongst pilots and ATC members, by pilots and ATC members... I can't imagine for one minute these people staying quiet as those they work with are getting torn apart in the media.
I must reiterate, our local branch did what they could with what they had to work with... but my friends, ye were fighting a battle without a proper leading command, and for that reason I honestly think we walk away now, until someone upon high grows some balls, defends us, and makes us proud to be controllers once more.
Sorry guys and gals, but I think the war is over. We are willing but our union are not able for this level of coverage in the media. I must stress I am not directing my frustration and anger at our local teams... but completely at the higher ranks within IMPACT !
Ye have let us down from the start. If you expect members to stand with you, then protect them when the **** starts to fly. Ye have remained silent, and when ye did speak, it was over the heads of the average joe public who really believes this is about money... and were never really convinced otherwise.
I would be totally in favour now of just returning to work, before we as a group of unique professionals are slandered any more.
I have a lot of pride in my job, and especially with those i work with, and to hear whats being said and written about us is WRONG.
Maybe when the dust settles, a new union should be formed amongst pilots and ATC members, by pilots and ATC members... I can't imagine for one minute these people staying quiet as those they work with are getting torn apart in the media.
I must reiterate, our local branch did what they could with what they had to work with
... but my friends, ye were fighting a battle without a proper leading command, and for that reason I honestly think we walk away now, until someone upon high grows some balls, defends us, and makes us proud to be controllers once more.
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how do you figure that out
EINN 2 ATCOS H24
Quote:
egcc tower 2 atcos, 2atsa,twr/gmc/gmp,2200-0700
egcc 4 staff h24
einn 2 staff h24
not seeing how 4 is less than 2
EINN 2 ATCOS H24
Quote:
egcc tower 2 atcos, 2atsa,twr/gmc/gmp,2200-0700
egcc 4 staff h24
einn 2 staff h24
not seeing how 4 is less than 2
I beleieve that the EGCC figure refers to total number available. Thjat would be 2 - one working and one to give a break.
The oft quoted "company rules" for Shannon require 2 ATCO's "working" - Ground and Air H24. Thus there must be another to give breaks without breaching company rules regarding the two positions.
As for the ACCs, you simply have to see the number of sectors banboxed onto one position and the number of movements handled by the controller plugged in.
As has been said elsewhere, the South Sectors may only have 3 rostered.
Please remember that 20 rostered is not the same as even 10 plugged in and working.
Why don't you do a liaision visit to Swanwick and check it out?
You might then realise why despite the poor use made of the ATCO resources available the IAA bean counters come up with numbers which say they have enought controllers.
Serious looks at productivity required.
How many Shannon high sectors? How on earth does Scottish ever survive when the flow is NIBOG and north of?
Regards,
DFC
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Whats this I'm hearing on RTE about the Proposals? Missed most of them.
"
The Labour Court has issued a recommendation in the air traffic controllers dispute which it is hoped will resolve the row over staffing levels, rosters and overtime.
The court has also recommended further negotiations between the two sides on scheduling of annual leave, family friendly policies and the future manpower needs of the service." RTE website
"
The Labour Court has issued a recommendation in the air traffic controllers dispute which it is hoped will resolve the row over staffing levels, rosters and overtime.
The court has also recommended further negotiations between the two sides on scheduling of annual leave, family friendly policies and the future manpower needs of the service." RTE website
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In other words we got squat. Nothing about recruiting direct entries, nothing about future SCP classes (they recommend that we talk a bit more about that as if we have'nt done that already). No apology from management for all the crap they've said about us. I mean, what the hell did we go to them in the first place for. From what I've seen so far it was a complete waste of time.
I'll be rejecting this proposal when this goes to ballot. I want more staff now, not more money
I'll be rejecting this proposal when this goes to ballot. I want more staff now, not more money
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Watched 9 news again.
Still voluntary O/T.
If you sign up you get €4000.
12 duties of which you will be called for max 8 over one year.
15 hr standbys at double time minimum call in of 5 hr's.
Ad hoc overtime rate up to a max of €95 per hour.
IAA have to talk to IMPACT on staffing/roster and family friendly policies.
E&OE.
Still voluntary O/T.
If you sign up you get €4000.
12 duties of which you will be called for max 8 over one year.
15 hr standbys at double time minimum call in of 5 hr's.
Ad hoc overtime rate up to a max of €95 per hour.
IAA have to talk to IMPACT on staffing/roster and family friendly policies.
E&OE.
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I beleieve that the EGCC figure refers to total number available. Thjat would be 2 - one working and one to give a break.
Who does what at Unit A [in Country A]...has NOTHING at all to do with what Unit B [in Country B] does.
A may aspire to B...or vice-versa. I just happen to sympathise with these people. Been there. Done it. Got the Tee Shirt. I've been on the Picket Line when "others" are going into work.....I note that they didn't refuse the Payrise that then ensued....
To the Irish ATCOs....Good Luck...and for Gods sake...Stick together
watp.iktch
Last edited by chiglet; 25th Feb 2008 at 21:47. Reason: syntax
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On first impressions there is no change. However i will defer my final decision until tomorrow and after the briefing .
I am only going on Ingrid mileys report on RTE but if its true then the following applies.
The Lcourts decree that its not up to him to decide staffing levels in the IAA smacks of pontius pilot washing his hands.
But no increase in staff means no agreement in my book.
I understand that there is another meeting between union and management on staffing levels tomorrow. That had better be a fruitful meeting.
I dont want the money- i want breaks ,leave, proper sector capacities etc.
On a purely financial side note if they think 32 euro a week after tax (my calculations) will encourage me to give up 12 days a year then they are gravely mistaken. Despite being a greedy ,money grabbing ,orchestrating wildcat that just doesnt interest me.
So on the face of it dont think this is solved at all.
NO increase in staff- no agreement
But i will wait and see what tomorrow brings but time and my patience is running out.
Yours as ever
OCK1F
I am only going on Ingrid mileys report on RTE but if its true then the following applies.
The Lcourts decree that its not up to him to decide staffing levels in the IAA smacks of pontius pilot washing his hands.
But no increase in staff means no agreement in my book.
I understand that there is another meeting between union and management on staffing levels tomorrow. That had better be a fruitful meeting.
I dont want the money- i want breaks ,leave, proper sector capacities etc.
On a purely financial side note if they think 32 euro a week after tax (my calculations) will encourage me to give up 12 days a year then they are gravely mistaken. Despite being a greedy ,money grabbing ,orchestrating wildcat that just doesnt interest me.
So on the face of it dont think this is solved at all.
NO increase in staff- no agreement
But i will wait and see what tomorrow brings but time and my patience is running out.
Yours as ever
OCK1F
Last edited by ock1f; 25th Feb 2008 at 22:00.
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Agree with Norby, i think a no vote to this.
The cancelling of the strike notice and the overtime ban is a bit premature for what we have received. I dont think that there will be many voluntering for callins in the interem, i for one wont be.
Very disiapointed but not surprised at the result. IMPACT have again failed in its duty to members to get something meaningful from this dispute, and again i feel that we have lost the PR battle with the public.
Meetings will be interesting, however it would be nice to get the details from today from our reps, even if just a text, or email, and not have to be reliant in the national airwaves as has become the norm.
If we have to again go and give strike notice following a no vote, we will not be looked to favourably upon by the flying public. If there are not enough people to sign up to this new scheme then we are back to square one, and are in for a rough 18 months, and that is being overly optimistic that the school can get 36 cadetes through the school and OJT in that time frame.
As we have seen from previous encounters with the IAA, sending us back for more talks about talks is a pointless exercise, as we don't have anywhere near the staff to implement some of the courts wishes re rostering and family friendly policies.
I will wait and see what they say tomorrow, but i am not holding my breath.
The cancelling of the strike notice and the overtime ban is a bit premature for what we have received. I dont think that there will be many voluntering for callins in the interem, i for one wont be.
Very disiapointed but not surprised at the result. IMPACT have again failed in its duty to members to get something meaningful from this dispute, and again i feel that we have lost the PR battle with the public.
Meetings will be interesting, however it would be nice to get the details from today from our reps, even if just a text, or email, and not have to be reliant in the national airwaves as has become the norm.
If we have to again go and give strike notice following a no vote, we will not be looked to favourably upon by the flying public. If there are not enough people to sign up to this new scheme then we are back to square one, and are in for a rough 18 months, and that is being overly optimistic that the school can get 36 cadetes through the school and OJT in that time frame.
As we have seen from previous encounters with the IAA, sending us back for more talks about talks is a pointless exercise, as we don't have anywhere near the staff to implement some of the courts wishes re rostering and family friendly policies.
I will wait and see what they say tomorrow, but i am not holding my breath.
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From what I gather from the RTE news the labour court recommended a system of VOLUNTARY OVERTIME......exactly what you have now......SO THEY CAN'T MAKE YOU DO IT ...
Everybody in the country has now been informed that
IT IS VOLUNTARY and
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT .......
I look forward to the IAA press releases in the following months when there is nobody to cover sick leave (because we all know everybody gets sick occasionally) and they have to close airports or restrict traffic....because they don't have enough staff........ Will be difficult for them now to convince people they are not short staffed after that....
Everybody in the country has now been informed that
IT IS VOLUNTARY and
YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO IT .......
I look forward to the IAA press releases in the following months when there is nobody to cover sick leave (because we all know everybody gets sick occasionally) and they have to close airports or restrict traffic....because they don't have enough staff........ Will be difficult for them now to convince people they are not short staffed after that....
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I sincerely think that we should call IAA's bluff from here on in.
They state that 1) we are not short of staff- in fact we have loads
2)the service is not reliant on overtime.
3)all the controllers are after is more money
Well its say fine to all that- actions speak louder than words so....
1) Impact's line is now to say we dont want a single penny for overtime and since the company is not relient on overtime then having a ban on it wont cause any problems. So we dont want a penny -saves the company loads and there is no overtime as its not needed. And every single one of has the free will to say no to overtime anyway.
2) We work our exact hours , with fatigue breaks etc ansd see what happens. It is a fact that the april roster just does not have enough peopl to run it. So the staff that are available do work and we sit back and watch whats happens. By the way - any consequences will have nothing to do with us as we are working to the letter of our contracts.
3) by not looking for a penny in overtime then we dispel the image that all we are is money grabbing yobs like O leary.
The upshot- closures , delays , flow control , cutting of NAT tracks ,manadatory NERS, no direct routeings , level cappings etc.
Who is responsible- NOT US
Yours as ever
Ock1F
They state that 1) we are not short of staff- in fact we have loads
2)the service is not reliant on overtime.
3)all the controllers are after is more money
Well its say fine to all that- actions speak louder than words so....
1) Impact's line is now to say we dont want a single penny for overtime and since the company is not relient on overtime then having a ban on it wont cause any problems. So we dont want a penny -saves the company loads and there is no overtime as its not needed. And every single one of has the free will to say no to overtime anyway.
2) We work our exact hours , with fatigue breaks etc ansd see what happens. It is a fact that the april roster just does not have enough peopl to run it. So the staff that are available do work and we sit back and watch whats happens. By the way - any consequences will have nothing to do with us as we are working to the letter of our contracts.
3) by not looking for a penny in overtime then we dispel the image that all we are is money grabbing yobs like O leary.
The upshot- closures , delays , flow control , cutting of NAT tracks ,manadatory NERS, no direct routeings , level cappings etc.
Who is responsible- NOT US
Yours as ever
Ock1F