ATC VOLUNTARY OVERTIME BAN: Dublin Flights Delayed 25th January
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dublin delays today
http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0224/airtraffic.html
http://www.iaa.ie/corp_fin/show_news.asp?ID=455
so, no staffing issues then. no shortages then - course not.
http://www.iaa.ie/corp_fin/show_news.asp?ID=455
so, no staffing issues then. no shortages then - course not.
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Will they ever learn?
http://www.iaa.ie/corp_fin/show_news.asp?ID=455
News & Press Releases
Date: February 24 2008
Headline: Delays at Dublin Airport
24 February 2008: due to unusually high levels of illness among air traffic controllers, and the unwillingness of other controllers to cover those absences, the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA), in the interest of safety, has had to restrict services operating into and out of Dublin Airport today. Delays can be expected throughout the day as a result.
The IAA regrets the inconvenience to passengers and airlines. Intending passengers are requested to contact their airline for further information.
ENDS
For further information contact;
So the IAA think that just because they have blocked PPrune access from all computers at work that we won't find out that they are slandering us again?
I thought they had copped on to themselves with regards their stupid ,pointless and inflammatory press releases. Obviously not.
If all they want is to increase the hostility towards them and make us stronger as a group its working brilliantly.
If they want to show proffessional courtesy and to play it smart especially on the eve of the last chance saloon so to set the ground for a settlement then they are failing spectaculary.
I cannot comprehend their motives -if they have any?-i can only assume they are intent on causing a strike, antagonising their staff even more and in fact it is the IAA who dont give a fiddlers about the travelling public on thursday and they dont give a fiddlers for their staff,colleagues and indeed the company called the IAA.
Shame.
Yours as ever
OCK1F
http://www.iaa.ie/corp_fin/show_news.asp?ID=455
News & Press Releases
Date: February 24 2008
Headline: Delays at Dublin Airport
24 February 2008: due to unusually high levels of illness among air traffic controllers, and the unwillingness of other controllers to cover those absences, the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA), in the interest of safety, has had to restrict services operating into and out of Dublin Airport today. Delays can be expected throughout the day as a result.
The IAA regrets the inconvenience to passengers and airlines. Intending passengers are requested to contact their airline for further information.
ENDS
For further information contact;
So the IAA think that just because they have blocked PPrune access from all computers at work that we won't find out that they are slandering us again?
I thought they had copped on to themselves with regards their stupid ,pointless and inflammatory press releases. Obviously not.
If all they want is to increase the hostility towards them and make us stronger as a group its working brilliantly.
If they want to show proffessional courtesy and to play it smart especially on the eve of the last chance saloon so to set the ground for a settlement then they are failing spectaculary.
I cannot comprehend their motives -if they have any?-i can only assume they are intent on causing a strike, antagonising their staff even more and in fact it is the IAA who dont give a fiddlers about the travelling public on thursday and they dont give a fiddlers for their staff,colleagues and indeed the company called the IAA.
Shame.
Yours as ever
OCK1F
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Irishatco,
I can't honesly remember but I will ask tomorrow when back in work
Good Luck to you ALL
watpiktch
I can't honesly remember but I will ask tomorrow when back in work
Good Luck to you ALL
watpiktch
Last edited by chiglet; 24th Feb 2008 at 16:00. Reason: comma key kaput
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With refernce to my post above it makes it even more unbelievable when you consider that the measures needed to PROBABLY call off this strike are very small.
PAY ATTENTION IAA:
I reckon if the IAA came out with a cast iron gaurantee that they would recruit scp's for the next 5 years and actively sought to recruit a fair number of direct entries and were seen to do so-that in MY OWN PERSONAL opinion would be enought to call off the strike action. It would address our grave concerns about staffing and all the associated issues i.e. protecting controllers/airlplanes/public, fatigue, break periods, leave, maternity/paternity leave etc.
If the IAA then want to talk to us about overtime then we can talk. But until the staffing is sorted no way. That wasnt that hard was it?
Of course if the IAA still maintain overtime is not required then thats fine too. We dont have to do it-we get our rest days as rest days-and we watch the system crumble again under delays and closures as we do now.
Q E D
Come on IAA - how hard is that?
I dont even want an apology from those who are seeking to put my career and peoples lives at risk. I wouldnt believe it was sincere anyway-so i don't want an apology from those who have slandered , libelled and abused in me in public.
But i do want this solved. I want a resolution to this-for me it revolves around staff levels. Everything else is secondary.
I must stress that its my opinion only and my views only and i speak for no one else.
Yours as ever
OCK1F
PAY ATTENTION IAA:
I reckon if the IAA came out with a cast iron gaurantee that they would recruit scp's for the next 5 years and actively sought to recruit a fair number of direct entries and were seen to do so-that in MY OWN PERSONAL opinion would be enought to call off the strike action. It would address our grave concerns about staffing and all the associated issues i.e. protecting controllers/airlplanes/public, fatigue, break periods, leave, maternity/paternity leave etc.
If the IAA then want to talk to us about overtime then we can talk. But until the staffing is sorted no way. That wasnt that hard was it?
Of course if the IAA still maintain overtime is not required then thats fine too. We dont have to do it-we get our rest days as rest days-and we watch the system crumble again under delays and closures as we do now.
Q E D
Come on IAA - how hard is that?
I dont even want an apology from those who are seeking to put my career and peoples lives at risk. I wouldnt believe it was sincere anyway-so i don't want an apology from those who have slandered , libelled and abused in me in public.
But i do want this solved. I want a resolution to this-for me it revolves around staff levels. Everything else is secondary.
I must stress that its my opinion only and my views only and i speak for no one else.
Yours as ever
OCK1F
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You speak for me too Ock1f
By the way we are in the Sunday Business Post too:
http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/st...729-qqqx=1.asp
They don't include the whole article on the website so let me give you a few choice quotes.
"There were cases of people working 8am to 4pm and being released early because the Air Traffic wasn't there"
What shift is that, it's not on my roster. And if the IAA don't wish to use flow control how are we to be blamed for the quiet periods as well as the busy ones when they set the staff levels.
"Air Traffic Controllers work over 24Hrs, on shifts of 6 or 8 hours.."
I have a shift of 9.5 Hrs, a 12.5 hr break, a shift of 8 Hrs, followed by a 14.5 Hr break, a shift of 5 Hrs, followed by an 11 Hr break, a shift of 9.5 Hrs followed by 11.5 Hrs break and finally a shift of 11 Hrs.
"We have surveyed the 50% of controllers who work overtime and this averaged out at one hour extra a week."
I wasn't surveyed. Were you? They are counting 50% of Operations staff controllers and dividing the total hours into 100% Operations staff plus the projects and training school staff. And they don't mention that 10% of the Operations staff do 40% of the total overtime.
"We have recruited 36 trainees to begin their ATC course next month. They will be in place by next July - And a further 36 start studies next year"
They will struggle to train 36 at a time. Averages for the last couple of classes would suggest 7 or 8 of the 36 won't make it. If they can have them operational by July next year (I thought they were saying November last week) that raises another safety issue. They haven't even advertised for 36 more.
"In the meantime, some overtime is a requirement"
Is this an admission of understaffing?
Thorisgod's patience is running thin
http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/st...729-qqqx=1.asp
They don't include the whole article on the website so let me give you a few choice quotes.
"There were cases of people working 8am to 4pm and being released early because the Air Traffic wasn't there"
What shift is that, it's not on my roster. And if the IAA don't wish to use flow control how are we to be blamed for the quiet periods as well as the busy ones when they set the staff levels.
"Air Traffic Controllers work over 24Hrs, on shifts of 6 or 8 hours.."
I have a shift of 9.5 Hrs, a 12.5 hr break, a shift of 8 Hrs, followed by a 14.5 Hr break, a shift of 5 Hrs, followed by an 11 Hr break, a shift of 9.5 Hrs followed by 11.5 Hrs break and finally a shift of 11 Hrs.
"We have surveyed the 50% of controllers who work overtime and this averaged out at one hour extra a week."
I wasn't surveyed. Were you? They are counting 50% of Operations staff controllers and dividing the total hours into 100% Operations staff plus the projects and training school staff. And they don't mention that 10% of the Operations staff do 40% of the total overtime.
"We have recruited 36 trainees to begin their ATC course next month. They will be in place by next July - And a further 36 start studies next year"
They will struggle to train 36 at a time. Averages for the last couple of classes would suggest 7 or 8 of the 36 won't make it. If they can have them operational by July next year (I thought they were saying November last week) that raises another safety issue. They haven't even advertised for 36 more.
"In the meantime, some overtime is a requirement"
Is this an admission of understaffing?
Thorisgod's patience is running thin
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Thank you STU/LND
My good friends on 132.95, 123.975, 133.6, and 135.255
Thanks BAW 676, 123.975 should read 129.375
Thanks BAW 676, 123.975 should read 129.375
Last edited by thorisgod; 24th Feb 2008 at 18:28. Reason: numerology
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36 trainees to begin in March08 and be ready in July 09.......might possibly be the quickest training in Europe.......with the highest success rate. I'm betting all ansps throughout Europe are wishing they could have such fantastic trainees who will not only all qualify but also do it in what I'm guessing is half the european average time......
Good luck tomorrow lads- I hope the IAA finally see some sense.
.
Good luck tomorrow lads- I hope the IAA finally see some sense.
.
Last edited by alwaysmovin; 24th Feb 2008 at 20:59.
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Best of luck to the lads tomorrow - please god let management stumble across some common sense as they stroll into the LC tomorrow .... one single ounce of it between them would be enough to sort all this out !! I really dont want to be out on Thursday - but by god if we are ... I will be on the picket in Shannon ! Many thanks for all the messages of support from across the water - makes me proud to be an ATCO. 
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Big thanks to our union reps for all work to date and, in advance, for tomorrow. I know you will give it your all.
I think the current situation that has these shift-working operational ATCO's in and out of the the Labour Court ad nauseum, for 10 hour plus negotiations,is lamentable. The fatigue factor must be tangible.
Much appreciation and respect
I think the current situation that has these shift-working operational ATCO's in and out of the the Labour Court ad nauseum, for 10 hour plus negotiations,is lamentable. The fatigue factor must be tangible.
Much appreciation and respect
Last edited by goodworker; 29th Feb 2008 at 11:32.
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It's a long shot, but let's hope the IAA start applying some common sense to their thinking and get this matter resolved tomorrow.
Failing that, good luck to all the workers who keep the skies safe over Ireland, with their actions on Thursday. If the IAA and others won't listen, then actions might speak louder than words.
Failing that, good luck to all the workers who keep the skies safe over Ireland, with their actions on Thursday. If the IAA and others won't listen, then actions might speak louder than words.
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Yes indeed many thanks to lads who are the representation of the controllers. The travelling, huge time commitment, stress , and having to deal with management cannot be easy to say the least. So respect and thanks.
I too can only hope that the IAA suddenly develop some common sense for , after tomorrow i fear we will be engaged in all-out warfare and any eventual solution will only be harder to reach.
To all the ATCO's from near and afar and the many , many pilots who are wishing us well it is nice to know that other aviation PROFESSIONAL'S understand the reasons we are on this course of action and despite the headaches Thursday might bring that you still support us.
It is especially nice to hear the NATS(scottish,manch,lakes,stu,Lnd and oceanic) people wishing us well and having their support-our closest neighbours and with whom we have a great working relationship.
It will be weird to say the least for you to pick up the phone for shannon and have no-one at the other end.
Yours as ever
OCK1F
cannot be easy to say the least. So respect and thanks. I too can only hope that the IAA suddenly develop some common sense for , after tomorrow i fear we will be engaged in all-out warfare and any eventual solution will only be harder to reach.
To all the ATCO's from near and afar and the many , many pilots who are wishing us well it is nice to know that other aviation PROFESSIONAL'S understand the reasons we are on this course of action and despite the headaches Thursday might bring that you still support us.
It is especially nice to hear the NATS(scottish,manch,lakes,stu,Lnd and oceanic) people wishing us well and having their support-our closest neighbours and with whom we have a great working relationship.
It will be weird to say the least for you to pick up the phone for shannon and have no-one at the other end.
Yours as ever
OCK1F
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Many enroute providers use single staffed sectors at certain times. I don't think safety is risked by such measures. Enroute flight in the UK is safe is it not?
Declared sector capacity is another thing and I agree. However how often is the capacity declared at say 36 and the flow person comes over and asks if you can squeeze 1 more in to save a guy getting a 3 hour delay?
Declared sector capacity is another thing and I agree. However how often is the capacity declared at say 36 and the flow person comes over and asks if you can squeeze 1 more in to save a guy getting a 3 hour delay?
Just a quick note a UK en-route sector is NEVER operated single staffed. A T and P is always on duty H24. To imply otherwise is just wrong.
And if a flow person came over to me and asked if i "could squeeze another one in to save them a delay" the answer would be a very quick and nasty two word answer. I'll do my job correctly by refusing and they should do theirs by not asking.
And to everyone else
Good luck with this, hope you get it sorted.
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Posted Twice For Iaa's Benefit
(sorry its just i know the IAA types read PPrune so in the vain hope that they see this - it might JUST lead them in the right direction tomorrow-again sorry for the double post)
With refernce to my post above it makes it even more unbelievable when you consider that the measures needed to PROBABLY call off this strike are very small.
PAY ATTENTION IAA:
I reckon if the IAA came out with a cast iron gaurantee that they would recruit scp's for the next 5 years and actively sought to recruit a fair number of direct entries and were seen to do so-that in MY OWN PERSONAL opinion would be enought to call off the strike action. It would address our grave concerns about staffing and all the associated issues i.e. protecting controllers/airlplanes/public, fatigue, break periods, leave, maternity/paternity leave etc.
If the IAA then want to talk to us about overtime then we can talk. But until the staffing is sorted no way. That wasnt that hard was it?
Of course if the IAA still maintain overtime is not required then thats fine too. We dont have to do it-we get our rest days as rest days-and we watch the system crumble again under delays and closures as we do now.
Q E D
Come on IAA - how hard is that?
I dont even want an apology from those who are seeking to put my career and peoples lives at risk. I wouldnt believe it was sincere anyway-so i don't want an apology from those who have slandered , libelled and abused in me in public.
But i do want this solved. I want a resolution to this-for me it revolves around staff levels. Everything else is secondary.
I must stress that its my opinion only and my views only and i speak for no one else.
Yours as ever
OCK1F
With refernce to my post above it makes it even more unbelievable when you consider that the measures needed to PROBABLY call off this strike are very small.
PAY ATTENTION IAA:
I reckon if the IAA came out with a cast iron gaurantee that they would recruit scp's for the next 5 years and actively sought to recruit a fair number of direct entries and were seen to do so-that in MY OWN PERSONAL opinion would be enought to call off the strike action. It would address our grave concerns about staffing and all the associated issues i.e. protecting controllers/airlplanes/public, fatigue, break periods, leave, maternity/paternity leave etc.
If the IAA then want to talk to us about overtime then we can talk. But until the staffing is sorted no way. That wasnt that hard was it?
Of course if the IAA still maintain overtime is not required then thats fine too. We dont have to do it-we get our rest days as rest days-and we watch the system crumble again under delays and closures as we do now.
Q E D
Come on IAA - how hard is that?
I dont even want an apology from those who are seeking to put my career and peoples lives at risk. I wouldnt believe it was sincere anyway-so i don't want an apology from those who have slandered , libelled and abused in me in public.
But i do want this solved. I want a resolution to this-for me it revolves around staff levels. Everything else is secondary.
I must stress that its my opinion only and my views only and i speak for no one else.
Yours as ever
OCK1F