Airservices Australia Global Search for ATCs
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Right Base Rwy 12L
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
****su
Sorry mate just a joke, about the "cheap" part, like all ATC's we are capitalistic pigs. We South Africans can also hold our own when it comes to pushing the tin. Specially the boys and girls from Jo'burg (Where things are not well at the moment!!! ).Our Rand is currently not even worth the paper it is printed on and our bok coach has lost his mind. WE NEED GEORGE TO COME COACH NOT PLAY!
Aussie was for a long time a Dream for a lot, but "The Closed Sign" was up for a long time. There is such a world wide shortage of controllers today that one can almost start getting picky about where you want to go.
From what I know of Aus is that it is the closes thing to the old SA.(Not refering to the racism and Apartheid - Before I get shot at sunrise) But a country with a future going in the right direction. I hope that we may soon share a Prawn On the BBQ or a Braai with the folks down under.
Ps Are there any single, good looking, open minded girls working down under that might like to put up with a SOUTH AFRICAN BOY for a while ?
Aussie was for a long time a Dream for a lot, but "The Closed Sign" was up for a long time. There is such a world wide shortage of controllers today that one can almost start getting picky about where you want to go.
From what I know of Aus is that it is the closes thing to the old SA.(Not refering to the racism and Apartheid - Before I get shot at sunrise) But a country with a future going in the right direction. I hope that we may soon share a Prawn On the BBQ or a Braai with the folks down under.
Ps Are there any single, good looking, open minded girls working down under that might like to put up with a SOUTH AFRICAN BOY for a while ?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 561
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are there any single, good looking, open minded girls working down under that might like to put up with a SOUTH AFRICAN BOY for a while ?
But seriously, you'd be welcome, except when you cheer the Boks (or Bulls, Cheetahs, Stormers, or Sharks).
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Right Base Rwy 12L
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks, tell Kylie we are sending some specimens her way soon.
As for the rugby I think we should both look for new teams to support as the Walabies are also a bit below par at the moment!
On a more serious note, what is the pension/retirement scheme like? What is the retirement age. Do you need private health care? Tax ? Interest rate ?
What sort of roster do you work, we do 2morning 2afternoon 2nights sleep 3 days off. Leave ?
Thanks DCT
As for the rugby I think we should both look for new teams to support as the Walabies are also a bit below par at the moment!
On a more serious note, what is the pension/retirement scheme like? What is the retirement age. Do you need private health care? Tax ? Interest rate ?
What sort of roster do you work, we do 2morning 2afternoon 2nights sleep 3 days off. Leave ?
Thanks DCT
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Planet Plazbot
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In summary. 72 hour fortnight. Max 10 min 6 hour shifts. 10 hours off in between. Overtime paid at 1.85x normal rate. Public holidays(bank holidays) paid at same as OT. 6 weeks a year leave if you work a roster containing night shifts, 5 if you don't. Generally 4 on 2 off roster with some modification from place to place. There is a 'retirement' fund. Look up http://www.avsuper.com.au/
retire at 60. Tax is a sliding scale as per
http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/co...tent/12333.htm
Some ATCs do get into the top bracket but not many after lots and lots of Overtime. $126K(or so. haven't looked in a while) is the top rate then OT and pub hols on top.
Private health insurance saves you a further 1% of tax each year. You can get the top cover for a family for anywhere from $150-200 plus a month. Public system is rubbish so private is the way to go.
retire at 60. Tax is a sliding scale as per
http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/co...tent/12333.htm
Some ATCs do get into the top bracket but not many after lots and lots of Overtime. $126K(or so. haven't looked in a while) is the top rate then OT and pub hols on top.
Private health insurance saves you a further 1% of tax each year. You can get the top cover for a family for anywhere from $150-200 plus a month. Public system is rubbish so private is the way to go.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Melbourne
Age: 40
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Info here; http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/17nz.htm but doesn't say you get/need permanent residency, and that is a requirement of being an ATC in OZ.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I realise that you can't move in the Sydney App Cell without hitting a controller but unless you're referring to movements per controller I hazard a guess that SY would **** on Joburg for bussiness (between 6am & 11pm). I have been reliably informed that SY - ML is one of the top 10 city pairs in the world. During peak periods with both runways SY has some pretty amazing movement rates.
Getting back to the thread, not wanting to burn my bridges (but I don't think they want me back anyway!) you can have Airservices...I have had my fill of 'change management' to last a lifetime.
If you can stomach the BS, Brisneyland is the happiest place on earth to live (long as they get some rain soon). Despite what someone else said you are closer to beaches in Brisbane because you won't have to spend 2hrs+ in Sydney traffic to get to Bondi/Manly/Coogee/Cronulla to find no carparks or race home before sunset lest you get robbed and bashed if you came on the train or bus.
I did manage on my BN Area FPC pay ($130K including O/T before tax is taken out and no second income from a partner) pay off a mortage on a good size highset (sure it wont appear in 'Better Homes' but at least it is my slum!), 2 ex-wives, sent 2 kids through private (albeit Catholic) school, owned a mid size car, two motor bikes, three mountain bikes, two dogs (including vet bills!!!), went on a couple of overseas trips (sent one daughter on 2 overseas tours with her school orchestra), have a decent share portfolio, always had half a bottle of red each night, pay TV for the Super 14/Bikes, cable internet, attended university part time (AsA's expense), full private health insurance.......the piont is if anyone tells you that you can't get by on the around $100K ATCO salary in Australia (yer SY you would struggle) they are full of ****!
As far as Tower work goes, I'd give me left nut to go to Coff's.
Last edited by Funk; 21st Nov 2006 at 14:11. Reason: cause kant typpe good but
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: 24 27 45.66N 54 22 42.28E
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You were right on the money Funky!
Damn the Sth Africans keep their movement figures close to their chest, so it took me about 20 minutes of Googling to dig them up. I guess they don't want to let out to the rest of the world how quiet their airspace is.
Sydney, even with a nighttime curfew in place, had for the month of March 2006, 24,438 total aircraft movements, whilst Joburg for the same month had 17,562 total aircraft movements (and that was their busiest month ever). Just to add to that, Bankstown, Sydney's second airport (mainly for light aircraft and the like) had a whopping 28,048 total movements for the month.
So sorry ATC Groove but I think you better rethink this whole idea of Joburg being ****loads busier than Sydney as it's not, in fact it is more on a par with Melbourne movement figures. Cheers.
Sydney, even with a nighttime curfew in place, had for the month of March 2006, 24,438 total aircraft movements, whilst Joburg for the same month had 17,562 total aircraft movements (and that was their busiest month ever). Just to add to that, Bankstown, Sydney's second airport (mainly for light aircraft and the like) had a whopping 28,048 total movements for the month.
So sorry ATC Groove but I think you better rethink this whole idea of Joburg being ****loads busier than Sydney as it's not, in fact it is more on a par with Melbourne movement figures. Cheers.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: P@$#ing distance from 2 borders
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Air No Services,
It seems like it is always a p$#@ing contest with you. Oh I am busy, oh they are busier...who cares !!!!. You get what you are dealt with and you do the best you can with that. Every controller can develop into handling more traffic, it just takes training and time..your not so special mate..get over it.
It seems like it is always a p$#@ing contest with you. Oh I am busy, oh they are busier...who cares !!!!. You get what you are dealt with and you do the best you can with that. Every controller can develop into handling more traffic, it just takes training and time..your not so special mate..get over it.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Amen to that - unfortunately it seems that the entire aviation environment is just a pissing contest these days - get over it the lot of you and get a life.
SM4 Pirate - out of curiosity, what did you mean earlier when you talked about the age profile of tower controllers etc - I know I'm a bit slow but it went over my head.
Thanks
The Snail
SM4 Pirate - out of curiosity, what did you mean earlier when you talked about the age profile of tower controllers etc - I know I'm a bit slow but it went over my head.
Thanks
The Snail
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: South Africa
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Damn the Sth Africans keep their movement figures close to their chest, so it took me about 20 minutes of Googling to dig them up. I guess they don't want to let out to the rest of the world how quiet their airspace is.
Sydney, even with a nighttime curfew in place, had for the month of March 2006, 24,438 total aircraft movements, whilst Joburg for the same month had 17,562 total aircraft movements (and that was their busiest month ever). Just to add to that, Bankstown, Sydney's second airport (mainly for light aircraft and the like) had a whopping 28,048 total movements for the month.
So sorry ATC Groove but I think you better rethink this whole idea of Joburg being ****loads busier than Sydney as it's not, in fact it is more on a par with Melbourne movement figures. Cheers.
Sydney, even with a nighttime curfew in place, had for the month of March 2006, 24,438 total aircraft movements, whilst Joburg for the same month had 17,562 total aircraft movements (and that was their busiest month ever). Just to add to that, Bankstown, Sydney's second airport (mainly for light aircraft and the like) had a whopping 28,048 total movements for the month.
So sorry ATC Groove but I think you better rethink this whole idea of Joburg being ****loads busier than Sydney as it's not, in fact it is more on a par with Melbourne movement figures. Cheers.
Meaning in SA we only charge for the arrivals (landings) and this is generally the "movement" count that is presented. As I have it the rest of the world (bar one or two ANSP's) count actual runway throughput (takeoffs and landings) as well as the sector throughput.
Eg.
In SA:
Depart from airport A to airport B = 1 movement at airport A (Dep) and 1 at airport B (landing).
Actual is 1 at airport A and 1 at sector D and E and F before landing at Airport B. A total of 6. Seems as if other ANSP's have been adding all the movements to their total count as it should be while SA has only been presenting the arrivals and departures. (ANSA can shed more light I'm sure on how they count theirs).
Touch and Go is counted as 1 movement only GF flights as 1 movement only. As the charge is for a landing only.
When you look at the runway throughput, some of the regional airports in SA have figures of 10000 plus runway movements in a month (as high as 14500). Might not seem so much at first but they are only open for 12 hours a day and only have 1 frequency with 1 controller on duty at a time all while working non radar approach without a co-ord. Busiest hours frequently approach 100 movements in an hour.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: On a Ship Near You
Posts: 787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The reason they use profiles is that averages might not tell the real story. Might be average age at a location 35; but that is because it has 4 who are 50 and 4 who are 20. The profile tells us we need 4 within 3 years at that location (on average retirment age); but we might need 4 in 3 months as they are entitled to go now; it's just how do you position yourself HR wise for the what if's (carry fat for the retirements or guess at getting it right and suffer the consequences if you guess wrong). Take the US controllers contract for example; stay and you effectively get less than you would if you retire now; well ok not rocket science, I'm out of here. The next CA will be very interesting, or the AWA battle will be more so.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SM4 Pirate - thanks for the response. Do I take it then that the tower positions are the ones that most of the more 'mature' in Airservices aim for? (A retirement posting for want of a better term) If so, what is the feeling then, when the last recruiting drive is looking for pretty much 'direct entries' and they go straight to the tower locations? If there is angst there, it must also make it difficult for the poor guys and girls that do decide to come across and get the 'plum' jobs.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Straya
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you really care, here are the Australian movements. Movements are only arrivals.
But what does it matter - the controller in Maroochydore can be just as busy as the controller in Sydney or J'burg.
What is most interesting is the growth. Another reason we need more people - but we needed them years ago anyway.
Interesting times ahead.
http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...aa.asp?id=2006
If you are considering moving here, do the sums on tax and what the real cost of living is - there are plenty of Australian controllers considering going overseas - so why is that?
Some advice I have heard is to make sure you are employed under the Certified Agreement terms and do not sign a separate Workplace agreement - but I couldn't possibly comment on that one way or the other.
But what does it matter - the controller in Maroochydore can be just as busy as the controller in Sydney or J'burg.
What is most interesting is the growth. Another reason we need more people - but we needed them years ago anyway.
Interesting times ahead.
http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...aa.asp?id=2006
If you are considering moving here, do the sums on tax and what the real cost of living is - there are plenty of Australian controllers considering going overseas - so why is that?
Some advice I have heard is to make sure you are employed under the Certified Agreement terms and do not sign a separate Workplace agreement - but I couldn't possibly comment on that one way or the other.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: 24 27 45.66N 54 22 42.28E
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry guys, I thought the pissing contest started with ATC Groove making the comment that Joburg was way busier than Sydney. Along with Funk I found this a strange claim, and when I found it not to be the case I thought it should be corrected. I am sure with the staffing situation at ATNS the traffic in Joburg can get very busy, and so not aiming to short change the job the guys do down there, but if you are going to make a claim on here, make sure it is correct. In this case it wasn't.
Anyway you are right the traffic levels are irrelevant, and the real issue for guys applying to ASA is what are they like to work for? I have been gone almost 5 years and so I am sure lots have changes have happened in that time, so maybe not the person to ask. The 2 things that were the sealer for me leaving was firstly the constant chipping away at conditions by management, losing this small thing here and that small thing there, all for CPI salary increases. Secondly and most importantly was the fact that there was the feeling there was always someone ready to pounce and stand you down at the slightest indiscretion. I felt there was no common sense in the whole process and that some people were justifying there own existence by constantly standing down people (or worse) over things that would only be logged in the rest of the ATC world. I am sure there will be a ton of guys from all over the world (not least SA) that will go anyway and good luck to them.
Anyway you are right the traffic levels are irrelevant, and the real issue for guys applying to ASA is what are they like to work for? I have been gone almost 5 years and so I am sure lots have changes have happened in that time, so maybe not the person to ask. The 2 things that were the sealer for me leaving was firstly the constant chipping away at conditions by management, losing this small thing here and that small thing there, all for CPI salary increases. Secondly and most importantly was the fact that there was the feeling there was always someone ready to pounce and stand you down at the slightest indiscretion. I felt there was no common sense in the whole process and that some people were justifying there own existence by constantly standing down people (or worse) over things that would only be logged in the rest of the ATC world. I am sure there will be a ton of guys from all over the world (not least SA) that will go anyway and good luck to them.
Last edited by AirNoServicesAustralia; 22nd Nov 2006 at 01:31.
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: 24 27 45.66N 54 22 42.28E
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And again not a pissing contest but correcting errors only, ****su Tonka, movements aren't just arrivals. As it says in the notes section of the document you linked, ASA movement figures are calculated by adding Arrivals to Circuits and multiplying by 2, which accounts for departures and other flights. Joburg figures under their notes, while not doing it the same way, quote departures, arrivals, and all other flights, non scheduled, military etc (doesn't matter whether billed or not), and add them all together. End of the day, different counting system but pretty much same outcome.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Right Base Rwy 12L
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmmmmm Guys you call a tough game here.
I left the Sinking "SAS ATNS" for a lot of the same reasons some of you say are present in ASA.
I know that there is no place on Earth that is perfect. I am not unhappy where I am at the moment(but not entirely happy either), but need to think about settling down somewhere with KYLIE and raising some future rugby players.
Problem is will they play for the Kiwiws or Tha Walabies.
Looks like they will never again play for the BOKKE. No matter who the coach or what they pay. Just not safe ther any more, they also won't fit into the New SA brand.
Thanks to all for making this a thread, that has The GOOD,The BAD and The UGLY all in one. So we have all the info needed, before making a decision!
Ps:The ATC Groove It is BOEREWORS
I left the Sinking "SAS ATNS" for a lot of the same reasons some of you say are present in ASA.
I know that there is no place on Earth that is perfect. I am not unhappy where I am at the moment(but not entirely happy either), but need to think about settling down somewhere with KYLIE and raising some future rugby players.
Problem is will they play for the Kiwiws or Tha Walabies.
Looks like they will never again play for the BOKKE. No matter who the coach or what they pay. Just not safe ther any more, they also won't fit into the New SA brand.
Thanks to all for making this a thread, that has The GOOD,The BAD and The UGLY all in one. So we have all the info needed, before making a decision!
Ps:The ATC Groove It is BOEREWORS
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Belgium
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought about moving to OZ in the past, and this opportunity does make me doubt again...I haven't looked into it to closely but 6 weeks leave is quite a difference from the 8 - 10 weeks we have over at Eurocontrol. The money is -cost of living taken into account - not my main priority anyway, albeit not completely unimportant 
We are used to a certain standard of living and I'd like to keep it that way... a fellow ATCO ( from OZ, don't know his nickname on the boards ) said a house would set me back about 350.000 euro's ...hm, that's the same as my house here costs me, but with quite a lower salary to go on. Makes me wonder...
I might just fill in the paperwork and see what comes out of it... nothing keep me here at the moment. Wife...gone, kids...none, parents...moving to France themselves...friends, would love a holiday address in OZ
We are used to a certain standard of living and I'd like to keep it that way... a fellow ATCO ( from OZ, don't know his nickname on the boards ) said a house would set me back about 350.000 euro's ...hm, that's the same as my house here costs me, but with quite a lower salary to go on. Makes me wonder...
I might just fill in the paperwork and see what comes out of it... nothing keep me here at the moment. Wife...gone, kids...none, parents...moving to France themselves...friends, would love a holiday address in OZ
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: On a Ship Near You
Posts: 787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OT; a very good house would set you back 350.000 Euros; the average house price in BN and ML is similar around $350K AUD (just a guess by the way). Which is about half of 350.000 Euros... Sydney is a lot more expensive within an hours drive of work.
But, if I were looking for a change Eurocontrol would be right up there on my list; so what does that say?
The grass is always greener, but you need to have the cash factor very much considered when weighing up your options. It works out about 1/2 money here (or less), with a lower cost of living equation, but sadly not half of one.
But, if I were looking for a change Eurocontrol would be right up there on my list; so what does that say?
The grass is always greener, but you need to have the cash factor very much considered when weighing up your options. It works out about 1/2 money here (or less), with a lower cost of living equation, but sadly not half of one.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Straya
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not sure about 350K for a 'reasonable' house in Brisbane any more than Melbourne. 450K-550K in my view - but have a look for yourself:
www.realestate.com.au
It's all overpriced on the back of cheap credit over the past few years, which has just changed - interest rates on mortgages in Australia now around 7.5-8.0 %. House prices pretty steady (unless you are in Perth which is out of control - artificially)
www.realestate.com.au
It's all overpriced on the back of cheap credit over the past few years, which has just changed - interest rates on mortgages in Australia now around 7.5-8.0 %. House prices pretty steady (unless you are in Perth which is out of control - artificially)