Airservices Australia Global Search for ATCs
Join Date: Aug 2002
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The recruiting team has a world wide trip planned. The chief is called the King of Bling; you'll know why if you see him; try not to laugh. Seriously he wouldn't know one ATC from another; his expertise is allegedly "industrial relations"; not sure who will be carrying his bags; but it seems like a "Jolly" too me (pun intended).
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Maybe instead of this whole circus (because believe me that is what this is going to turn into), AirServices could take a big leaf out of Norwegian ATC's book. That is, realise they are short of controllers, realise they have homegrown controllers overseas in large numbers who have gained valuable experience, and would be willing to come home for the right package but certainly aren't that desperate to grovel at their old employers feet for a job back.
Norway, contacted each of the controllers individually, and asked them what location they would like to return to, and when they would be wanting to return. Voila, they all have start dates back in their workplace of choice, at the start time of their choice, at a pay rate that recognizes their experience level. They are happy and the Norwegian ATC provider is happy because they now know what staffing levels they can plan around. And guess what no overseas recruiting junkets required by anyone.
Norway, contacted each of the controllers individually, and asked them what location they would like to return to, and when they would be wanting to return. Voila, they all have start dates back in their workplace of choice, at the start time of their choice, at a pay rate that recognizes their experience level. They are happy and the Norwegian ATC provider is happy because they now know what staffing levels they can plan around. And guess what no overseas recruiting junkets required by anyone.
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AirNoServicesAustralia:
Problem with that is that there is a big "you buggered off, why should we give you a job back, and why should we have to pay you more than what you left on?" mentality. They think they can rely on people wanting to be in Oz for the lifestyle rather than wanting a good package. I hope that attitiude changes as they need the bums on seats ASAP.
Cheers,
NFR.
Problem with that is that there is a big "you buggered off, why should we give you a job back, and why should we have to pay you more than what you left on?" mentality. They think they can rely on people wanting to be in Oz for the lifestyle rather than wanting a good package. I hope that attitiude changes as they need the bums on seats ASAP.
Cheers,
NFR.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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We've all been over this in the past, but I still don't understand that mentality. We all gave a minimum of 5 years service to AirServices, and then for a variety of reasons, went in search of a new challenge. Forgetting the argument of who is busier than who, we all have been exposed to different things and different experiences, that can only be of benefit to AirServices. Therefore instead of seeing it as "we are paying you more than what you left on", they could see it as "we are paying you what you are worth".
I don't know what it costs to sponsor someone through the residency process in Australia but it can't be cheap, especially when you consider all the relocation costs (freight, air tickets etc) they will have to pay, if they want to be internationally competitive, but, for every returning Aussie expat they save those substantial costs, and also know they will not have little surprises waiting around the corner (like get the Aussie passport and run, English language problems, "interesting" training background). I have seen first hand that while most western countries do meet a minimum standard at least of ATC, we all do it very differently. Australian ATC is very particular in how they want it done (especially phraseology wise) and whereas in somewhere like the Middle East as long as we keepem apart, noone really cares if you speak like a Yank, a Yarpie, an Aussie, or a Scandihooligan, in Australia there is a specific way you say things and do things, and that will be a big problem for non-Aussie trained ATCers.
Anyway for years there have been rumours that AirServices were going to take the individual approach to luring back those that have flown the coop but as yet my P.O. Box has remained empty. I guess I will feel the sand between my toes and no income tax for a few years yet, cheers ANSA
I don't know what it costs to sponsor someone through the residency process in Australia but it can't be cheap, especially when you consider all the relocation costs (freight, air tickets etc) they will have to pay, if they want to be internationally competitive, but, for every returning Aussie expat they save those substantial costs, and also know they will not have little surprises waiting around the corner (like get the Aussie passport and run, English language problems, "interesting" training background). I have seen first hand that while most western countries do meet a minimum standard at least of ATC, we all do it very differently. Australian ATC is very particular in how they want it done (especially phraseology wise) and whereas in somewhere like the Middle East as long as we keepem apart, noone really cares if you speak like a Yank, a Yarpie, an Aussie, or a Scandihooligan, in Australia there is a specific way you say things and do things, and that will be a big problem for non-Aussie trained ATCers.
Anyway for years there have been rumours that AirServices were going to take the individual approach to luring back those that have flown the coop but as yet my P.O. Box has remained empty. I guess I will feel the sand between my toes and no income tax for a few years yet, cheers ANSA
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No Further... you're spot-on with the AsA Management expectation of Aussies returning... one of them (in a key position in this particular area) stated quite confidently to me that ex-pats would return "for the lifestyle" and that they wouldn't need to increase the salary that is being offered.
ANSA... a former colleague of yours in Management told me that you would be welcomed back (you must know that they're desperate to fill vacancies in your old group). Don't rely on HR to contact you, recruiting is an absolute debacle. Call & speak to the Centre Manager direct, and, I would not be surprised if you personally could achieve a re-entry on the top salary (currently AUD$130,000). I doubt anyone could negotiate payment of re-location expenses from overseas, might have to have a fire-sale in Abu Dhabi. My brother payed to re-locate to and from Dubai with his wife. It was a pain in the butt and the cost was significant.
Good luck.
ANSA... a former colleague of yours in Management told me that you would be welcomed back (you must know that they're desperate to fill vacancies in your old group). Don't rely on HR to contact you, recruiting is an absolute debacle. Call & speak to the Centre Manager direct, and, I would not be surprised if you personally could achieve a re-entry on the top salary (currently AUD$130,000). I doubt anyone could negotiate payment of re-location expenses from overseas, might have to have a fire-sale in Abu Dhabi. My brother payed to re-locate to and from Dubai with his wife. It was a pain in the butt and the cost was significant.
Good luck.
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I would never expect relocation costs to come back, and thats why it is cheaper for ASA to take back us rather than go to the expense of a global search and sponsor and relocate non-Aussies. Thats why I find it amazing that they didn't do as the Norwegians did first and get back the guys that had left, after all better the devil you know. Anyway thanks for that I might have to drop the Centre manager a line and see how far into the future they would be willing to give me before I would have to come back, as neither the bucket of **** or the bucket of money are full yet (although the former is starting to get close).
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ANSA... one thing though, your old group is very different to when you left. It's not a happy place and there are problems, very big problems.
If you do return to that group, expect to be stuck there for several years unless you gain promotion (ie. Spud's experience returning from HK). Merit selection has been well and truly corrupted. When your old group lost two controllers in rapid succession late last year, an Ops Manager (newly promoted and rapidly losing the respect of the controllers) went to an experienced controller on an adjacent group who had previously held the endorsement and asked if he would be interested in filling one of the vacancies with the words... "you'll be looked upon favourably in the next selection process (for promotion)". The answer to that offer was a clear "no" with nothing but contempt for the suggestion that a promotion would follow the favour.
If you have your sights set on coming back to a different position, push hard to get the transfer, don't trust any promise of "give us 12 months in your old group and we'll consider your request for transfer".
Having said all of that, I sympathise with the bucket of **** getting bigger...
If you do return to that group, expect to be stuck there for several years unless you gain promotion (ie. Spud's experience returning from HK). Merit selection has been well and truly corrupted. When your old group lost two controllers in rapid succession late last year, an Ops Manager (newly promoted and rapidly losing the respect of the controllers) went to an experienced controller on an adjacent group who had previously held the endorsement and asked if he would be interested in filling one of the vacancies with the words... "you'll be looked upon favourably in the next selection process (for promotion)". The answer to that offer was a clear "no" with nothing but contempt for the suggestion that a promotion would follow the favour.
If you have your sights set on coming back to a different position, push hard to get the transfer, don't trust any promise of "give us 12 months in your old group and we'll consider your request for transfer".
Having said all of that, I sympathise with the bucket of **** getting bigger...
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For those that may be interested.
Cost to ship 2 adults, 1 child, 1 container, business class one way, hotels and transfers London - Perth was A$25,000 back in 97. Still have the itemised bills somewhere!!
From the Middle east it may be a bit cheaper I reckon.
BD
Cost to ship 2 adults, 1 child, 1 container, business class one way, hotels and transfers London - Perth was A$25,000 back in 97. Still have the itemised bills somewhere!!
From the Middle east it may be a bit cheaper I reckon.
BD
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...seems like not only controllers are the same all over world at the end of the day but also the management: king of bling could be one of my chiefs and 'you buggered off why should we give you a job back' is exactly what happened to a colleague of mine a couple of years ago... kindergarden.... 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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I hope when you stop laughing at the KOB, you are able to keep a straight face at their their new interview technique and lines of questions.
You will know what I mean when you see it - hilarious.
There must be quite a few FF points in it for KOB however - so it won't be a complete waste of time and money.
You will know what I mean when you see it - hilarious.
There must be quite a few FF points in it for KOB however - so it won't be a complete waste of time and money.
Last edited by Shitsu_Tonka; 10th Feb 2007 at 02:39.
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Well, I have it on reasonably good authority* that training needs analysis' are now being done for South African controllers. Other countries, too, but I don't know which.
(*better than a rumour..but only just!)
(*better than a rumour..but only just!)
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2 RAAFies already hired
for all you ASA wannabes,
From the civil air website it appears that ASA have already hired 2 RAAFies (currently residing in WA) for a Perth approach position and a PH tower position. This has been organised from within the ASA by one of their ex RAAF mates. When this was discovered and the troops started asking questions, ASA have turned around to cover their butt, and said they are part of the hiring from the Global Search. so only 28 positions remaining if that is the case.
But how can that be as I have it from the horses mouth (HR) that the person in charge of the initial assessment of applications returns from leave on Monday, to commence this process....but I do suspect this already begun.
If anyone has been contacted by ASA regarding interviews etc please post or PM me so we can put the pieces together.
all for now
From the civil air website it appears that ASA have already hired 2 RAAFies (currently residing in WA) for a Perth approach position and a PH tower position. This has been organised from within the ASA by one of their ex RAAF mates. When this was discovered and the troops started asking questions, ASA have turned around to cover their butt, and said they are part of the hiring from the Global Search. so only 28 positions remaining if that is the case.
But how can that be as I have it from the horses mouth (HR) that the person in charge of the initial assessment of applications returns from leave on Monday, to commence this process....but I do suspect this already begun.
If anyone has been contacted by ASA regarding interviews etc please post or PM me so we can put the pieces together.
all for now
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There are countless controllers already working in ASA who have been trying to get to Perth for years.
So short answer is....
So short answer is....
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Why is Perth so sought after?
Mediterranean climate of hot, dry summers and moist, cool winters. None of that humidity of Sydney and Brisbane. Great big swell on that torquoise ocean. Long white beaches, not those crappy congested little things in Sydney. Surf - unlike the Brisbane and Melbourne flat waters.
Perth in summer - fantastic.
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Despot,
I didn't say what the short answer was.....
I have worked there long enough to know someone would eventually infer the reality of what happens!
(So much for back-filling..)
I didn't say what the short answer was.....
I have worked there long enough to know someone would eventually infer the reality of what happens!
(So much for back-filling..)
Last edited by Shitsu_Tonka; 11th Feb 2007 at 01:38.