Student Pay!
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Elusive 'grown-up' pay scale
Further to previous comments I recognise that new recruits should be grateful for the opportunity to pursue a career in ATC regardless of the salary, however I have two major concerns:
1- Using myself as an example, I do not believe it is fair to implement the salary change retrospectively, when I and many others have been waiting for this job for 2 years and have planned and budgeted for a salary of 19k. Many of us will, for whatever reason, not be able to take the cut (or our bank managers won't let us!) The NATS website is advertising the next available course as March 2005 for those currently applying. Surely it would not be unreasonable (although perhaps more costly for NATS) to put off the salary change until then, when applicants are fully aware of the employment conditions.
2- I would not mind if it was just the training salary that was revised, however, it seems that even after training we may earn less than those who joined the company a few months earlier. I received a letter from NATS stating that my starting salary is now £14.4k, but also that on completion of training it will be in the range of £18.7 - £21.5 depending on location, plus unsociable hours payment of £4836. This is in stark contrast to the figure of £27.9k after completion of training, which I was given when I applied in 2002!
In addition, on obtaining 1st validation the salary will be £23.8 - £27.4k depending on location, plus unsociable working hours payment of £4836. Again, I was previously informed that the salary at this point would be £35/38k.
As I mentioned earlier, it would be fine if we just had to work hard and be careful with money for a couple of years, after which we would then be on the same pay scale as everyone else. However, it looks as though we may be playing salary catch up further into our careers. I wonder how long it will be before we're on an even keel with our colleagues or will they also be held back?
1- Using myself as an example, I do not believe it is fair to implement the salary change retrospectively, when I and many others have been waiting for this job for 2 years and have planned and budgeted for a salary of 19k. Many of us will, for whatever reason, not be able to take the cut (or our bank managers won't let us!) The NATS website is advertising the next available course as March 2005 for those currently applying. Surely it would not be unreasonable (although perhaps more costly for NATS) to put off the salary change until then, when applicants are fully aware of the employment conditions.
2- I would not mind if it was just the training salary that was revised, however, it seems that even after training we may earn less than those who joined the company a few months earlier. I received a letter from NATS stating that my starting salary is now £14.4k, but also that on completion of training it will be in the range of £18.7 - £21.5 depending on location, plus unsociable hours payment of £4836. This is in stark contrast to the figure of £27.9k after completion of training, which I was given when I applied in 2002!
In addition, on obtaining 1st validation the salary will be £23.8 - £27.4k depending on location, plus unsociable working hours payment of £4836. Again, I was previously informed that the salary at this point would be £35/38k.
As I mentioned earlier, it would be fine if we just had to work hard and be careful with money for a couple of years, after which we would then be on the same pay scale as everyone else. However, it looks as though we may be playing salary catch up further into our careers. I wonder how long it will be before we're on an even keel with our colleagues or will they also be held back?
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Auld Reekie
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mayday,
I feel compelled to question the salaries you quote....
You applied in 2002 and were quoted a salary of 35/38k on completion of first validation... I guess you were always doomed then!
I got my first validation in 1999, and was on a figure by no means comparable to that, in fact after 6 years in the company I'm just about reaching that level now!!
I know that the ATCO2's earn more than I, but I'm still pretty sure that 35-38k wouldn't even be a first validation salary for them!
I do, however, stand to be corrected!
I feel compelled to question the salaries you quote....
You applied in 2002 and were quoted a salary of 35/38k on completion of first validation... I guess you were always doomed then!
I got my first validation in 1999, and was on a figure by no means comparable to that, in fact after 6 years in the company I'm just about reaching that level now!!
I know that the ATCO2's earn more than I, but I'm still pretty sure that 35-38k wouldn't even be a first validation salary for them!
I do, however, stand to be corrected!
Ohcirrej
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: This is the internet FFS.........
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In addition, on obtaining 1st validation the salary will be £23.8 - £27.4k depending on location, plus unsociable working hours payment of £4836. Again, I was previously informed that the salary at this point would be £35/38k.
) to allow a "uniformity" amongst a whole course (where as it stands, the Area side of a course is 6 months longer). As it stands, you can have people from one course validate at a Tower unit while others are just starting their simulation courses at the Centres. The T&D scale is based on a 2 year "joint graduation date" of your course (the date the area side of your course finishes and you all merrily celebrate your graduation together).It does leave itself open to a lot of criticism (especially if you validate within the 2 years and not getting paid "grown up" salary!), but from memory those numbers Mayday quotes sound like the "top" of the existing T&D scale and the bottom of the existing ATCO2 scale.
Of course, now the college is talking about direct streaming into Area or Approach, who knows what's going to happen!??!?!
Ohcirrej
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: This is the internet FFS.........
Posts: 2,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ummmmm.....am I talking to myself here?
When you go from the Training and Development scale to the ATCO scale!! If it takes you more than 2 years to validate (for whatever reason) then you will go straight onto that scale.
Ask Rodger Dodge......this is his favorite topic
.
Again, I was previously informed that the salary at this point would be £35/38k.
Ask Rodger Dodge......this is his favorite topic
.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: scotland
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not sure how the pay structure is organised for the first 2-3 years (it obviously isn't how it's shown on the sheet that comes with the recruitment pack). Anyone care to fill in the following gaps assuming the student has been streamed area:
CATC: 14.5k +5k allowance 18 months?
Training Swanwick: ???? ????? ?????
Validation: ???? ????? ?????
Next pay rise: ???? ????? ?????
Once validated what sort of overtime is available? Confused of Milton Keynes.
CATC: 14.5k +5k allowance 18 months?
Training Swanwick: ???? ????? ?????
Validation: ???? ????? ?????
Next pay rise: ???? ????? ?????
Once validated what sort of overtime is available? Confused of Milton Keynes.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hope this helps- I have the terms and conditions of employment as of October 2002 in black and white in front of me. This is a direct quote:
.After completion of the initial 74 weeks training, on appointment as an Air Traffic Controller (T&D) £27,952 rising to £31,734. On appointment as an ATCO £35,828/£38,061 (depending on unit) rising to £49,948 with prospects to over £65,111 inclusive of shift pay .
Alfie 1999 - Regarding the revised pay scales here is another direct quote as of February 2004:
.On completion of your college training, your salary will be in the range of £18,718 - £21,499 depending on location plus unsociable hours payment of £4836. On obtaining 1st validation your salary will rise again to between £23,823 - £27,363 depending on location plus unsociable hours payment of £4836.
The discrepancies are obvious, but please can anyone shed some light on how long itll be before our salaries catch up? In addition, does anyone know whether earlier candidates currently going through training will also be affected by these reduced figures after their training?
.After completion of the initial 74 weeks training, on appointment as an Air Traffic Controller (T&D) £27,952 rising to £31,734. On appointment as an ATCO £35,828/£38,061 (depending on unit) rising to £49,948 with prospects to over £65,111 inclusive of shift pay .
Alfie 1999 - Regarding the revised pay scales here is another direct quote as of February 2004:
.On completion of your college training, your salary will be in the range of £18,718 - £21,499 depending on location plus unsociable hours payment of £4836. On obtaining 1st validation your salary will rise again to between £23,823 - £27,363 depending on location plus unsociable hours payment of £4836.
The discrepancies are obvious, but please can anyone shed some light on how long itll be before our salaries catch up? In addition, does anyone know whether earlier candidates currently going through training will also be affected by these reduced figures after their training?
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm no expert but I would have thought married students with a family to support will be entitled to income support should this pay deal go through.
Not exactly something we should be proud of.
Not exactly something we should be proud of.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: South Coast, UK
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK... a few posts back someone asked for concrete information... anyone got any yet:
Can anyone confirm for definite whether this pay cut IS happening beginning April 2004, or whether it MIGHT happen. Has Prospect voted on it as part of the wider pay deal?
Thanks!
Can anyone confirm for definite whether this pay cut IS happening beginning April 2004, or whether it MIGHT happen. Has Prospect voted on it as part of the wider pay deal?
Thanks!
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Just North of France
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As far as a ballot goes, it is currently in progress and will close beginning of March.
Basically, if it is voted in, the cadetship salary will reduce with effect from 1st April. I am not absolutely sure about whether or not this will apply to people who have already had an offer from NATS and start after April, or whether it will just be for new applicants from that date? I will however try to find out and post a message here in the next few days if I can.
The post college T & D scale will remain as it currently is and will increase in line with the basic pay award.
Anyone who is on the V scale (first validation) or main ATCO scale will receive the additional working practices increases appropriate to that unit. The V scale only applies until two years after your posting date to that unit, then you will go onto the main ATCO scale.
Benefits in the long term for the college students, but not for the first 18 months or so, but then again that depends on where your coming from!
Hope this clarifies!
Oh, apologies if I have covered anything already mentioned as I did not have a chance to trawl through the whole thread.
Basically, if it is voted in, the cadetship salary will reduce with effect from 1st April. I am not absolutely sure about whether or not this will apply to people who have already had an offer from NATS and start after April, or whether it will just be for new applicants from that date? I will however try to find out and post a message here in the next few days if I can.
The post college T & D scale will remain as it currently is and will increase in line with the basic pay award.
Anyone who is on the V scale (first validation) or main ATCO scale will receive the additional working practices increases appropriate to that unit. The V scale only applies until two years after your posting date to that unit, then you will go onto the main ATCO scale.
Benefits in the long term for the college students, but not for the first 18 months or so, but then again that depends on where your coming from!
Hope this clarifies!
Oh, apologies if I have covered anything already mentioned as I did not have a chance to trawl through the whole thread.
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: ?
Posts: 335
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What the hell!!!
Bloody HELL having just received the news (applied '02, test 1 '03, test 2 '04) that i had passed all the tests, i was thinking that i could throw back my student days and finally say to the bank manager, don't worry i'll be able to pay back my CDL no prob, NATS have gone and changed the pay figures (go figure).
As an ex-mil controller, (not a bad wage) there was i was thinking.......(that was my mistake)...at last a decent salary to keep my lovely women in the manner she has become accustomed to!!!
ANYWAY
Can somebody give me accurate living figures for Bournemouth please. OK i don't start till 05 (almost a year) but the bank may come a calling before then and it would be nice to tell the 'friendly' manager how i'll cope.
By the way the person who said that £14.5K is better than some gradutes needs to take a look as most graduate salaries are normally in the range £18k - 22k.
Just another rant, are NATS not on shaky ground by offering jobs at a reduced salary without first sending the aforementioned notice of change to applicants already in the system????