Student Pay!
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And I was under the impression that if two aircraft collided there would be an awful lot of death........ Oh well
Ohcirrej
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Give me a break.........I can't type and think at the same time.
Like walking and chewing gum.
(Empty box........now that's rude!!!
Consider it filled)
Like walking and chewing gum.
(Empty box........now that's rude!!!
Consider it filled)
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Life or Death?
To come back to Earth for a second; several posts on the enormous responsibility of the job......true.....but we're talking about Student pay on this thread. I think you will find that validation holding controllers who really do bear an awesome responsibility for safety will do rather well out of the pay deal. Something to look forward to! Believe me when I say that once you're past the short transitory training phase this job is Great...and the pay is OK....even if it does seem to be robbing Peter to pay Paul.
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Wesel you wrote:
Quite true, but do the following words mean nothing to the company?
Trust
Faith
Honesty
Understanding
Unfortunately mate, no, but at least you've learned early
Quite true, but do the following words mean nothing to the company?
Trust
Faith
Honesty
Understanding
Unfortunately mate, no, but at least you've learned early
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Greebson - so how the heck can they expect that towards NATS from me/you/anyone else? (EDIT Gonzo - yes they do!)
Think someone up high with a big desk has forgotten that employer-emloyee relationships work both ways when they formulated their hr policy (sorry, not a very apt word that, policy/process/system when added to hr)....
Learnt the lesson too late - 3rd strike has happened. Mainly due to me not lying through my teeth during the interview - and giving the company line. So frustrating and so very very sad.....
Edited * Edited due to major blood boiling session and rise of red mist over emotive issue making my keyboard type by itself (humble pie please barmaid!). WF's Issue is with system, not any one person. Nuff said.
Think someone up high with a big desk has forgotten that employer-emloyee relationships work both ways when they formulated their hr policy (sorry, not a very apt word that, policy/process/system when added to hr)....
Learnt the lesson too late - 3rd strike has happened. Mainly due to me not lying through my teeth during the interview - and giving the company line. So frustrating and so very very sad.....
Edited * Edited due to major blood boiling session and rise of red mist over emotive issue making my keyboard type by itself (humble pie please barmaid!). WF's Issue is with system, not any one person. Nuff said.
Last edited by weselfluren; 25th Feb 2004 at 06:48.
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so how the heck can they expect that towards NATS from me/you/anyone else?
shame the ATCO didn't pick up his desire to ****** off to Oz as soon as. Shouldn't have trained him, being a homesick aussie.
Sorry I didn't make it on Friday, some of us have to work to the end of the shift and cope with your 'Early Go Spacing (tm)'
Good luck!
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Whoooaaa!
Jerrico - the issue is not with you, but the fact that you can get declined on the issue of loyalty based on their assumptions of you. It's the excuse for a system/process at hr.
Oh, and I was also told that they thought my career ambitions lay outside NATS - well what the heck are you meant to do in between university and the 3-4 years it takes to get your foot in the door.
The jokes on me, not you. Should have taken the dole for the past few years and I'd have been ideal. I decided on a job and now I'm too "focused on non ATC things"........
You try not to be bitter.
All the best for the return home - no offence intended (looking for the door in the rearview mirror....)
P.S. 6 years? I mentioned that my old age was going to be spent on the beach and that was enough to chop me. That's a lot more than 6 years off, try 30......
P.P.S Any NICE ATCO's out there? Yup all of those who use their time to post replies to us wan(ted)nabes....
Jerrico - the issue is not with you, but the fact that you can get declined on the issue of loyalty based on their assumptions of you. It's the excuse for a system/process at hr.
Oh, and I was also told that they thought my career ambitions lay outside NATS - well what the heck are you meant to do in between university and the 3-4 years it takes to get your foot in the door.
The jokes on me, not you. Should have taken the dole for the past few years and I'd have been ideal. I decided on a job and now I'm too "focused on non ATC things"........
You try not to be bitter.
All the best for the return home - no offence intended (looking for the door in the rearview mirror....)
P.S. 6 years? I mentioned that my old age was going to be spent on the beach and that was enough to chop me. That's a lot more than 6 years off, try 30......
P.P.S Any NICE ATCO's out there? Yup all of those who use their time to post replies to us wan(ted)nabes....
Last edited by weselfluren; 25th Feb 2004 at 06:21.
Ohcirrej
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I apologise to others for that little outburst.
WF - Check your PM's. (No, I'm not having a go at you!)
Just checked your latest post........you really don't know when to shut up do you? I thought I was bad..
In future I suggest sending you post to Tobzalp to proof read it before you hit the send button.
(Edited as part of a gentleman's agreement)
WF - Check your PM's. (No, I'm not having a go at you!)
Just checked your latest post........you really don't know when to shut up do you? I thought I was bad..
In future I suggest sending you post to Tobzalp to proof read it before you hit the send button.
(Edited as part of a gentleman's agreement)
Last edited by Jerricho; 25th Feb 2004 at 15:17.
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Any NICE ATCO's out there? This thread isn't giving the profession a good name - in complete differance to the many friendly ATCO's I got to meet on one of my many Tower visits....
Learnt the lesson too late - 3rd strike has happened. Mainly due to me not lying through my teeth during the interview. So frustrating and so very very sad.....
we expect an inflated salary becasue we're doing a really tough job with a HUGE amount of resposibility.
To Quote:
Quite true, but do the following words mean nothing to the company?
Trust
Faith
Honesty
Understanding (end quote)
Trust - How about YOUR trust in the company to give you full training to do the "really tough job with a HUGE amount of responsibility" and the companys trust in return for you to study your hardest to get through.
Faith - Erm, they are investing over £250K just for your training. The faith is that you are worth it and get through.
Honesty - Working Practices change every year, everyone goes through pay revisions, sometimes with an outcome of no increases, and sometimes with a decrease like this one, they will inform any revisions/changes before you sign up and commit.
Understanding - £600million in debt.
Maybe I'm missing the point a bit, but until you have SIGNED a contract, NATS have no obligations toward you. Therefore they can do what the hell they like regarding the course including pay and working practices/conditions for those not already signed up. The changes will be provided to you contained in the contract and you have the choice to not sign, walk away and lose nothing. It is unfortunate that this has to happen, but its life in a big company. I have suffered pay changes that seriously affected my income prospects AFTER I had started - and had no way of changing this. I hope not too many are put off by this as its a great job to be involved in - get through the first 3 years, and then you'll be sitting proud AND happy, as will your bank manager also.
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As Jerricho and WF seem to have reached an understanding ... I'll let the comments sit for now. Either gent can of course EDIT their own posts if they wish to retract anything
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Agree with 5milesbaby, in fact, every one of my watch are nice (not sure what they'd say about me! ). We regularly socialise outside of work together. As to Jerricho, I've seen him once in the last five years, but I went through the college with him, and I remember him as a top bloke, despite the fact he is an ex-colonial . I heard that his leaving do was busy, but whether that was because of his popularity or just lots of people wanted to make sure he left, I don't know!
You say that you didn't get through the interview because you didn't lie. Is that really what you think? If so, why is it sad? If you were interviewing someone and found out they 'lied through their teeth' then how would you feel, would you then offer them a job? I cannot remember if you've mentioned this already, but have you asked for/received any feedback from NATS?
Yes, there are lots of things wrong with the recruitment process, and it's got worse over the last few years, despite us (when we started in March 98) being assured that the time lag between first application and starting on the course would decrease to below six months 'soon'. However, the pay deal that is on the table at the moment (including the decrease for students at the college) is far from certain to be voted in, and until that happens do you really think that NATS should contact all applicants with the news that they "may be on less money for the first few years if the deal goes through, but if it doesn't go through nobody knows how much anyone will get paid, so just sit tight!" Or is it more feasible that updated salaries will be detailed with the offer of employment and start date once the pay structure is concrete?
). We regularly socialise outside of work together. As to Jerricho, I've seen him once in the last five years, but I went through the college with him, and I remember him as a top bloke, despite the fact he is an ex-colonial . I heard that his leaving do was busy, but whether that was because of his popularity or just lots of people wanted to make sure he left, I don't know! You say that you didn't get through the interview because you didn't lie. Is that really what you think? If so, why is it sad? If you were interviewing someone and found out they 'lied through their teeth' then how would you feel, would you then offer them a job? I cannot remember if you've mentioned this already, but have you asked for/received any feedback from NATS?
Yes, there are lots of things wrong with the recruitment process, and it's got worse over the last few years, despite us (when we started in March 98) being assured that the time lag between first application and starting on the course would decrease to below six months 'soon'. However, the pay deal that is on the table at the moment (including the decrease for students at the college) is far from certain to be voted in, and until that happens do you really think that NATS should contact all applicants with the news that they "may be on less money for the first few years if the deal goes through, but if it doesn't go through nobody knows how much anyone will get paid, so just sit tight!" Or is it more feasible that updated salaries will be detailed with the offer of employment and start date once the pay structure is concrete?
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Jerrico - you are right! I don't know when to shut up. Also, you're right about it being nice and cosy on the forums to think and say what you really feel - a thing far too many of us Brits are unable to do face to face. Thank god for Pprune otherwise I'd be forced to keep that stiff upper lip and put up and shut up....
Gonzo - Lying to get in - by that I meant regurgitate the company line, even if it doesn't apply to you at all. Would rather not go into it any further, as this chapter may not yet be officially closed
It is very galling to know (yup, feedback was given and was very honest & detailed) that you are not deemed suitable for non ATC-related reasons - such as pursuing a career outside of NATS for one.....
The pay issue is thorny - I agree that there is nothing tying NATS to the previously mentioned sum, but the fact that they are peddling a job on a salary which is due to be reduced dramatically is a bit off. I applied over 20 months ago, and if I had got in, I'd have been a bit dissapointed - and would probably have lost the home or Mrs WF - hence my rants. None are directed at any of the lovely ATCO's who devote their time and brain power to answering the queries on these forums, just thought there might have been a more supportive reply than a "tough crap mate" approach...
Off to Edit my previous post, as I am a gent. Will need to think of a new moose-related insult to add now .....
Only joking Jerrico, hope it's not too cold over there!
Gonzo - Lying to get in - by that I meant regurgitate the company line, even if it doesn't apply to you at all. Would rather not go into it any further, as this chapter may not yet be officially closed
It is very galling to know (yup, feedback was given and was very honest & detailed) that you are not deemed suitable for non ATC-related reasons - such as pursuing a career outside of NATS for one.....The pay issue is thorny - I agree that there is nothing tying NATS to the previously mentioned sum, but the fact that they are peddling a job on a salary which is due to be reduced dramatically is a bit off. I applied over 20 months ago, and if I had got in, I'd have been a bit dissapointed - and would probably have lost the home or Mrs WF - hence my rants. None are directed at any of the lovely ATCO's who devote their time and brain power to answering the queries on these forums, just thought there might have been a more supportive reply than a "tough crap mate" approach...
Off to Edit my previous post, as I am a gent. Will need to think of a new moose-related insult to add now
.....Only joking Jerrico, hope it's not too cold over there!