Edinburgh-4

[Planeraz]

Delta S23

EDI-BOS

Increased to daily from 5W. Commences 26th May. More premium heavy 763 with premium select.

[ld0595]

Delta S23

EDI-BOS

Increased to daily from 5W. Commences 26th May. More premium heavy 763 with premium select.

Great news. Didn't realise it was only 5 weekly.

[Planeraz]

TUI S23

Orlando Melbourne and Cancun appear to have been dropped.

[CabinCrewe]

TUI S23

Orlando Melbourne and Cancun appear to have been dropped.
Was always an oddity. Plenty of options to connect during the summer on other routes. Maybe will some of the VS seats?

[tictack67]

Orlando, 8 weeks in height of school summer holidays and oddity?

​​​​​​YEs, a family of four will quite happily connect via EWR or LHR for a holiday to Orlando.

I suspect they cancelled because their operation has been a mess and Virgin continuing with Orlando next year to an airport 85km closer to the action didn't help.

I guess the economic fallout will mean many routes get slashed if as predicted inflation goes to 18% and interest rates go as high as 7%

Was always an oddity. Plenty of options to connect during the summer on other routes. Maybe will some of the VS seats?

[Sk1schoolsam]

TUI S23

Orlando Melbourne and Cancun appear to have been dropped.

Still able to book both on TUI website so not sure where this rumour has come from.

The timings are odd anyway as some flights are before the main school holidays start.

if it’s true here’s hoping VS increase to compensate

[Sk1schoolsam]

Currently United Website shows EWR, ORD and IAD all B757 next summer. Does anyone think the B764 will come back on the Washington route?

[chinapattern]

The positioning of the 787s from the main bases to the the likes of EDI has been a logistical nightmare at times this summer. Is it really worth it just to operate two weekly flights? I can’t help feel TUI might end up consolidating the long haul programme to just LGW, BRS, BHX, MAN and GLA. Although if DSA closes it might alleviate some of the pressure.

[Planeraz]

Not sure about a 764 on the IAD route given that ORD appears to be scheduled for a full summer season in 2023. One thing that is different is the number of Polaris seats offered on the 752. It appears 2 x seats have been dropped or blanked out for some reason. Only 14 on sale instead of the normal 16.

[Planeraz]

Jetblue

JetBlue appear to be ramping up plans for further expansion using 321N. Could this be good news for EDI? The much rumoured expansion into secondary European destinations. Reduced meal service is the compromise using this aircraft. Have we already seen DL for example preempt such a move by switching to a more premium heavy 763 aircraft on the JFK route from November and increasing BOS to daily in S23?



https://t.co/td2vNUwRfJ

[CabinCrewe]

I suspect they’ll be focussed enough to start where competition (outwith premium London) and seasonality are less of an issue. Perhaps MAN at a push. Don’t see EDI unless DL or UA withdrew.

[Mark J Bowcock]

I suspect they’ll be focussed enough to start where competition (outwith premium London) and seasonality are less of an issue. Perhaps MAN at a push. Don’t see EDI unless DL or UA withdrew.

MANCHESTER at a push? Lol do you know the catchment area the airport covers? you seem to put Manchester down at every opportunity

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Manchester, which by comparison to Edinburgh, has lost American, United and Delta. All's not well on that front, sometimes relative decline sneaks up on you, look at Glasgow compared to summers with NW, AA, UA and AC all flying long haul alongside Britannia and Air 2000. Markets evolve and change, sometimes brutally. MAN nabbed Aer Lingus and an expanded Virgin but it's still well down, and you can't blame BA and the increasingly useless LHR connection.

[Mark J Bowcock]

Manchester, which by comparison to Edinburgh, has lost American, United and Delta. All's not well on that front, sometimes relative decline sneaks up on you, look at Glasgow compared to summers with NW, AA, UA and AC all flying long haul alongside Britannia and Air 2000. Markets evolve and change, sometimes brutally. MAN nabbed Aer Lingus and an expanded Virgin but it's still well down, and you can't blame BA and the increasingly useless LHR connection.

Virgin took over Delta Atlanta and New York routes! Delta were going to start Boston but the pandemic started. United is coming back next year. So?

[Sk1schoolsam]

Virgin took over Delta Atlanta and New York routes! Delta were going to start Boston but the pandemic started. United is coming back next year. So?

🤪 Are we still on the EDI forum? 🤪 Just saying…..

But I agree I see MAN and BHX before EDI unless they want to take on the competition. They haven’t shied away from that in London.

[Mark J Bowcock]

🤪 Are we still on the EDI forum? 🤪 Just saying…..

But I agree I see MAN and BHX before EDI unless they want to take on the competition. They haven’t shied away from that in London.

the issue was brought up on this forum! Just saying idiot

[Planeraz]

I have a hunch and it’s nothing more that they may take a punt at BOS-EDI. Big presence there for JB. DL enjoying a really strong summer load factors with this route. They’ve already put S23 on sale and increased to daily. Coincidence?

[Sk1schoolsam]

the issue was brought up on this forum! Just saying idiot

Just saying Clearly YOUR the Idiot for not realising that was tongue in cheek 🤣

[VickersVicount]

Coincidence?
Yes… .

[GrahamK]

the issue was brought up on this forum! Just saying idiot

Any need for the bad attitude?

Not sure JetBlue will turn up at EDI given the amount of competition. GLA however, might have a chance.

[tictack67]

Any need for the bad attitude?

Not sure JetBlue will turn up at EDI given the amount of competition. GLA however, might have a chance.

Jet Blue's CEO Hayes said at the begining of August they were interested in Manchester, Edinburgh or Glasgow. However the economic situation unfolding how many of us will be planning big US hols


https://www.cityam.com/jetblue-unveils-eu-plans-as-it-forecasts-quarterly-profits/

[Planeraz]

Qatar

Qatar using A351 on Tuesday 30th Aug. Previously advertised 13th Sept now showing as a 359. Inbound DOH-EDI economy sold out on many dates in Sept. Student demand I assume. Certain dates in Sept, flights completely sold out.

[inOban]

I assume that today's flight from Beijing was also students.

[Planeraz]

Bet that was a nightmare almost 11 hour flight for the pax. Masked up for the majority of the time and flight crew in paper space suits.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I assume that today's flight from Beijing was also students.
Festival related maybe?

[Sk1schoolsam]

Festival related maybe?

The word from other channels it was taking home Chinese students although I would have expected some inbound for the new terms. Similar flights to MAN. Although I believe they have a regular service restarting, although with the sever entry restrictions and quarantine on arrival I am not sure who other that Chinese nationals would want to take these flights.

[wub]

I understand there will be another Air China flight on Sept. 5th

[A350Saltire]

Qatar

Qatar using A351 on Tuesday 30th Aug. Previously advertised 13th Sept now showing as a 359. Inbound DOH-EDI economy sold out on many dates in Sept. Student demand I assume. Certain dates in Sept, flights completely sold out.

A7-ANO allocated which is an A351. Will be nice to see it at EDI.

[Planeraz]

Westjet S23

Subject to change as always. Returning in S23. First inbound on 30th May. Not bookable directly at time of posting but appears to have been increased to 5 x W.

[A350Saltire]

Westjet S23

Subject to change as always. Returning in S23. First inbound on 30th May. Not bookable directly at time of posting but appears to have been increased to 5 x W.

Very interesting! North American carriers have done well from EDI this summer. This is why I wouldn’t rule JetBlue from EDI out.

[tartan 201]

Westjet S23

Subject to change as always. Returning in S23. First inbound on 30th May. Not bookable directly at time of posting but appears to have been increased to 5 x W.

Where is this stated? It's currently on sale for S23, but only three-weekly as S22.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Very interesting! North American carriers have done well from EDI this summer. This is why I wouldn’t rule JetBlue from EDI out.
One thought, if EDI did get a JetBlue service to JFK or BOS, do you think it would be net new traffic? What we tend to see is new entrants can upset the balance in market. United's impressive 3 x daily operation might drop one of EWR/IAD/ORD or Delta's JFK/BOS would consolidate to one. So you might still have three carriers but with roughly the same overall capacity. An A321 operation may even be the optimum year round JFK-EDI machine for business though? And would a JetBlue announcement kill an American return? A summer AA/B6/DL/UA and AC/WS operation would be quite something....
I did read elsewhere that Westjet were re-trenching to Calgary and even YYZ-LGW has been dropped, so good news if the seasonal B737 service is continuing.

[tictack67]

One thought, if EDI did get a JetBlue service to JFK or BOS, do you think it would be net new traffic? What we tend to see is new entrants can upset the balance in market. United's impressive 3 x daily operation might drop one of EWR/IAD/ORD or Delta's JFK/BOS would consolidate to one. So you might still have three carriers but with roughly the same overall capacity. An A321 operation may even be the optimum year round JFK-EDI machine for business though? .

I think it's all to play for.

British Airways are incapable of running any sort of service to a timetable.

Cancelling flights at short notice and having so few connections.

Their W22 Edi to LHR has 0645 departure then usually nothing until 1015 or 1130 depending on the day.

That 0645 is an A320/A319.

People aren't just going to JFK or BOS they are connecting onwards.

We've seen Air France use A321 alot on first flight for connections.

[Planeraz]

One thought, if EDI did get a JetBlue service to JFK or BOS, do you think it would be net new traffic? What we tend to see is new entrants can upset the balance in market. United's impressive 3 x daily operation might drop one of EWR/IAD/ORD or Delta's JFK/BOS would consolidate to one. So you might still have three carriers but with roughly the same overall capacity. An A321 operation may even be the optimum year round JFK-EDI machine for business though? And would a JetBlue announcement kill an American return? A summer AA/B6/DL/UA and AC/WS operation would be quite something....
I did read elsewhere that Westjet were re-trenching to Calgary and even YYZ-LGW has been dropped, so good news if the seasonal B737 service is continuing.

I think you make a good point about JetBlue just getting a slice of the pie should they take a punt at EDI. It wouldn’t be a new market. They don’t hide that their intention is to ruffle a few feathers and disrupt the dominance of the big 3 in the US. A new market for EDI, in my opinion, would be a west coast route. Will this happen? Who knows. One factor that perhaps is an advantage to EDI in the current travel climate is the number of direct routes from the US. Avoiding the need to transit at LHR. It would be good to learn if the number of transit pax via LHR has dropped or increased. AA clearly rely and benefit from One World code share with BA for pax travelling to Scotland. Should either leave the alliance, would this impact on direct routes to EDI? Would they continue to code share regardless?

[Planeraz]

Qatar

Qatar using A351 on Tuesday 30th Aug. Previously advertised 13th Sept now showing as a 359. Inbound DOH-EDI economy sold out on many dates in Sept. Student demand I assume. Certain dates in Sept, flights completely sold out.

Another 351 due in this afternoon. Hopefully someone will capture this beauty arriving.

[nighthawk117]

If JetBlue were to launch to Edinburgh, they will no doubt take some passengers from existing services, but at the same time they tend to be a bit cheaper than the competition, which will stimulate additional travel demand too. Most US flights tend to go out quite full at the moment anyway, so there's probably excess capacity there to be picked up. I think there's still room for an additional carrier on the route.

In terms of West Coast flights - Scotland is on the wishlist for LAX, so they certainly thinkt here's demand and are keen to attract someone on to the market. Sadly there arent many candidates for the route. Virgin in partnership with Delta might be the only possibility. It's a shame Barbados didnt work out. If that had succeeded, then they may well have looked at basing an aircraft at EDI and offering LAX a few times a week. Who knows... if they can perhaps talk LAS in to doing incentives too, they may decide it worthwhile to base an aircraft at EDI and operate to both 2x weekly with a 3x weekly Orlando flight, or similar.

[ATNotts]

In terms of West Coast flights - Scotland is on the wishlist for LAX

I am sorry, but for the majority of would be travellers in the next 12/24 month their wish list will be keeping themselves warm and with food on the table!!

All this complete nonsense that is being spouted on various threads (and I'm not fingering Edinburgh in particular) takes no account of the dire financial situation most people are going to find themselves in, let alone the country (The UK that is) which will likely be in a fairly deep recession, possibly a depression.

Apologies for the dose of realism!

[tictack67]

I am sorry, but for the majority of would be travellers in the next 12/24 month their wish list will be keeping themselves warm and with food on the table!!

All this complete nonsense that is being spouted on various threads (and I'm not fingering Edinburgh in particular) takes no account of the dire financial situation most people are going to find themselves in, let alone the country (The UK that is) which will likely be in a fairly deep recession, possibly a depression.

Apologies for the dose of realism!


Actually there are still a lot of people with a lot of money. I appreciate what you say that many of us will be in poverty, but just have a look at packages for the world cup in Qatar for November starting at £5K for group stage.

​​​​​​There were days when naysayers said Edinburgh couldn't sustain some of the routes they have for example IST,DOH,HEL,ORD,IAD,YYZ

[Planeraz]

NiceAir - Iceland

First time at EDI. Technically a new route? Not sure if this is package holiday type arrangement or something that could develop into something more.

Offering Akureyri-EDI - long weekend flights. So far, 2 x 3 day trip available to book. 20/23 Oct and 17/20 Nov.

[Sk1schoolsam]

I am sorry, but for the majority of would be travellers in the next 12/24 month their wish list will be keeping themselves warm and with food on the table!!

All this complete nonsense that is being spouted on various threads (and I'm not fingering Edinburgh in particular) takes no account of the dire financial situation most people are going to find themselves in, let alone the country (The UK that is) which will likely be in a fairly deep recession, possibly a depression.

Apologies for the dose of realism!

I appreciate the point your making, and there’s now hiding from the fact that there will be an impact however as seen in every other recession, not everyone is as affected as you describe.
Your view seams very outbound westerly focused not taken into account the flow of traffic originating from North America in your statement where the I would argue there will remain sustainable wealth and source of east bound traffic. We’re not shutting shop and pulling down the shutters.
And then you only need to look at Tyanairs CEO press yesterday for test another different perspective on short haul- he’s predicting growth.

[ATNotts]

I appreciate the point your making, and there’s now hiding from the fact that there will be an impact however as seen in every other recession, not everyone is as affected as you describe.
Your view seams very outbound westerly focused not taken into account the flow of traffic originating from North America in your statement where the I would argue there will remain sustainable wealth and source of east bound traffic. We’re not shutting shop and pulling down the shutters.
And then you only need to look at Tyanairs CEO press yesterday for test another different perspective on short haul- he’s predicting growth.

Sure there will still be some demand, its not "lockdown Mk.2", but I don't believe that in my lifetime we have seen such a shock to household budgets. The USA is suffering inflation not too dissimilar to that which the UK is suffering, though the hefty fall in sterling's value will negate some of that, and unlike other cities in UK, Edinburgh has a pull not too dissimilar to London for North American tourists so nobody would suggest for a moment that travel is going to dry up. The market is however likely to be soft, much softer than 2022 when much travel was bolstered by deferred trips from 2020 and 2021.

If I were managing an airport, or indeed an airline at present I would be looking at matching capacity to likely demand so as to maintain yield, rather than chucking on oodles of extra seats that in the end get flogged off simply to maintain turnover, or negate losses. For the avoidance of doubt I am doing neither!

As for Ryanair, apart from the odd Brexit related hissy fit, has anyone ever heard Michael O'Leary not be bullish about passenger numbers? They can afford to be since if bookings don't meet their required level the airline will just summarily can the route and offer refunds or re-routing which is easier logistically for a short haul carrier to do than a long haul one, where leisure bookings are likely to be made very much further forward.

I just think that all these supposed capacity increases and hoped for expansion is more laced with unfounded optimism and in the cold light of day Summer 2023 could look horrible. I hope sincerely my fears are well wide of the mark.

[Planeraz]

Another 351 due in this afternoon. Hopefully someone will capture this beauty arriving.

Qatar sending another 351 tomorrow. 3 so far this week. Demand must be pretty high, particularly with students. Inbound very heavily booked for the next 2 weeks. Some flights completely sold out and economy sold out in the majority of flights. Very good to see the route performing so strongly.

[Rutan16]

Qatar sending another 351 tomorrow. 3 so far this week. Demand must be pretty high, particularly with students. Inbound very heavily booked for the next 2 weeks. Some flights completely sold out and economy sold out in the majority of flights. Very good to see the route performing so strongly.

With more than 30 A350-900s parked with the allegedly damaged paint work and exposed fibre matting the use of the A350-1000 may well be out of necessity rather than to meet specific peaks in demand to be honest .

Not to say Qatar can sell the extra capacity through.

[VickersVicount]

the use of the A350-1000 may well be out of necessity rather than to meet specific peaks in demand to be honest
Ooft don’t tell them that.. :oh:

[tictack67]

Ooft don’t tell them that.. :oh:
Inbound Doha on 3rd has One Business class seat left
Inbound Doha on 4th has only two business seats left
​​​​​​
Don't know what hard to understand on here.
I guess Turkish have kept their A321 on Edi for over a year because...

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

There used to be a old guy in a raincoat at Glasgow who would stand in the car park and count the passengers as they disembarked....

It's great Qatar are seemingly filling seats and making things work when Etihad couldn't, but maybe not read too much into a handful of flights with no visibility on upgrades or pricing, or indeed costs! The A350 likely won't have a longer future at QR anyways, bridges well and truly burned.

[tictack67]

There used to be a old guy in a raincoat at Glasgow who would stand in the car park and count the passengers as they disembarked....

It's great Qatar are seemingly filling seats and making things work.

I'm not, I just think it's hilarious that some think all Edi flights are running on empty loads.

I should hope EK are doing well at Glasgow, there's no competition save KL/BA/LH
Edi has options east and south equator with AF/AY/SN/TK as well as KL/BA/LH
Finnair Helsinki flight tonight upgraded to A321 must be because loads are poor 😕

[Albaman]

There used to be a old guy in a raincoat at Glasgow who would stand in the car park and count the passengers as they disembarked....

It's great Qatar are seemingly filling seats and making things work when Etihad couldn't, but maybe not read too much into a handful of flights with no visibility on upgrades or pricing, or indeed costs! The A350 likely won't have a longer future at QR anyways, bridges well and truly burned.

I couldn't help but smile when I read this post. When I first started plane spotting at Glasgow in the 1970s, the bloke Skipness 1F referred to always seemed to in the terminal and if you asked him about an aircraft registration he couldn't help but , no doubt, could have told you the number of passengers who disembarked from flight 123 from airport " X".

One day , one of my companions saw him coming out of a bank so after that we always referred to him as " the bank manager ".

Anyway, apologies for this bout of nostalga, now back to Edinburgh.

[billyg]

I couldn't help but smile when I read this post. When I first started plane spotting at Glasgow in the 1970s, the bloke Skipness 1F referred to always seemed to in the terminal and if you asked him about an aircraft registration he couldn't help but , no doubt, could have told you the number of passengers who disembarked from flight 123 from airport " X".

One day , one of my companions saw him coming out of a bank so after that we always referred to him as " the bank manager ".

Anyway, apologies for this bout of nostalga, now back to Edinburgh.

The man was the late James Myles , he was always keen on knowing how Glasgow was faring passenger wise , and he was a bank manager !

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Oh that's brilliant, he totally looked like a bank manager too, bless him. Back to Edinburgh.....

[Planeraz]

I understand there will be another Air China flight on Sept. 5th

Correct. A 773 this time. Due to land around 15:15.

[inOban]

As last time it doesn't appear on the online arrivals list, and this time isn't on FlightRadar either, unless it's doing a double drop. On the departure list however.

[Planeraz]

As last time it doesn't appear on the online arrivals list, and this time isn't on FlightRadar either, unless it's doing a double drop. On the departure list however.

CA89 - B77W (B-2043) (https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/b-2043)

at time of this post, flying over eastern Russian airspace.

[inOban]

Odd that it doesn't appear on the FR page linked to the EDI website. Did last time even when it was in Russian airspace. Just curious.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Odd that it doesn't appear on the FR page linked to the EDI website. Did last time even when it was in Russian airspace. Just curious.

Tracked it coming on FR24 as a flight bound for Frankfurt - just think FR24 got confused 😐

[nighthawk117]

Tracked it coming on FR24 as a flight bound for Frankfurt - just think FR24 got confused 😐

If they re-use a flight number, then flight radar will show where that previous flight operated to.

[Planeraz]

Turkish

TK using an A333 on todays service. Due in around 10am. Planned 321 looks to have been swapped out for whatever reason.

333 also being used tomorrow and a 332 on Saturday. Higher demand driven by student movements?

[NotanAVGeek]

Turkish

TK using an A333 on todays service. Due in around 10am. Planned 321 looks to have been swapped out for whatever reason.

Could be extra demand with Hearts playing Istanbul Basaksehir in the Europa League. There was another TK 738 coming in later today too but appears to show as cancelled now.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Could be extra demand with Hearts playing Istanbul Basaksehir in the Europa League. There was another TK 738 coming in later today too but appears to show as cancelled now.

These changes to the schedule were apparently made some time ago before the football draw and has more to do with International students coming and going ahead of the new terms.
The TK3232 738 you referred to that was listed on EDI’s arrivals has now landed- in GLA

[Planeraz]

Tracked it coming on FR24 as a flight bound for Frankfurt - just think FR24 got confused 😐

Some YouTube footage of the CA 773 landing on Monday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxRyRuVH_1c

[NotanAVGeek]

United 757 divert overnight in EDI, was meant to be landing in KEF.

[Planeraz]

Qatar W22

Subject to change of course. Planned 788 replaced with larger 789 on many dates at the busy October and Xmas/NY period. Some very high prices around the Xmas dates, which could suggest demand is very high. Business class sold out on many dates. Have Emirates missed an opportunity to cash in on high demand? The rumoured return to EDI remains just that - a rumour.

Additional changes since initial post. A359 now showing as operating aircraft on certain dates in October and December. More changes to follow it would appear.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Air Canada seems to be going daily for Summer 2023 and keeping the B787-8 rather than the MAX.

[Planeraz]

Air Canada seems to be going daily for Summer 2023 and keeping the B787-8 rather than the MAX.

Yes, this is correct. Good news. They confirmed this a few weeks ago. They’ve enjoyed a very good season with excellent LF’s. A word of caution however. AC have already adjusted frequency for Manchester - YYZ, which was also due to go daily in S23, Now only 5xW on an A333.

[nighthawk117]

Delta to Atlanta to return next summer:

Finally, Delta will connect Atlanta with Edinburgh beginning on May 25, 2023 — a route that hasn't been flown since 2007. This flight will be operated five days a week during the summer season.

All three of the aforementioned Atlanta routes will be operated by Boeing 767-300 aircraft.


https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-new-transatlantic-routes-summer-2023/

[A350Saltire]

Delta to Atlanta to return next summer:



https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-new-transatlantic-routes-summer-2023/

Wow great news. A few of us have been expecting an ATL route for some time.

[nighthawk117]

Delta also increasing flights to Boston/New York, according to Edinburgh Airport:

Delta has also confirmed it will expand its seasonal Edinburgh to Boston route to a daily service, operating from May 8 to October 28, while growing frequency of its New York JFK service

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

That's a strong portfolio of routes, good options and choice for the consumer. A vote of confidence as many see us teetering in to recession !!

[VickersVicount]

How many times have they done ATL ?

[nighthawk117]

That's a strong portfolio of routes, good options and choice for the consumer. A vote of confidence as many see us teetering in to recession !!

Have you seen the exchange rates? Recession will help that too... soon it'll be $1 = £1. Bargain for the Americans right now!

[Planeraz]

Delta also increasing flights to Boston/New York, according to Edinburgh Airport:

Excellent news all round. A nice extension to the normal summer season for BOS. Growing frequency of JFK route also. Daily during summer months but drops to 4/5 weekly from Autumn. I assume their target is to operate daily year round? How if at all will their competitors respond? UA already have established routes. IAD has performed incredibly well in S22. Could we see an extension to this service? DEN is a well known target destination for EDI. Big UA hub and currently the fastest growing airport in the US. The very unpredictable AA due to announce S23 plans. Aircraft allowing, it would be disappointing if they didn’t re-start PHL which also performed very strongly pre pandemic.

[mwm991]

If you ever want a comparison of good and bad airport management compare Gordon Dewar v Derek Provan. Forty miles apart in distance, a million miles apart in competence.

EDI getting another crack at ATL whilst GLA can't even maintain a summer seasonal to NYC, enough said really.

[tictack67]

If you ever want a comparison of good and bad airport management compare Gordon Dewar v Derek Provan. Forty miles apart in distance, a million miles apart in competence.

EDI getting another crack at ATL whilst GLA can't even maintain a summer seasonal to NYC, enough said really.

I sometimes wonder if Glasgow signed some kind of exclusivity deal with Emirates for x years whereby they would not allow another middle East carrier in.

​​​​​there should be some questions asked in Glasgow Chamber of Commerce.

[tictack67]

How many times have they done ATL ?

This is the second time

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Have you seen the exchange rates? Recession will help that too... soon it'll be $1 = £1. Bargain for the Americans right now!
Great point on the exchange rate but the US is also believed to be in recession too ! Ah well, holidays keep us sane :)
To the point on United offering Denver, there's a line where you start to cannibalise your own existing traffic. Scotland -BOS/JFK/EWR/ORD have strong point to point traffic and EWR offers good connections as does IAD and ORD. I think the ATL addition might be partly to free up capacity on JFK for more point to point and send connections over ATL?

[mwm991]

I sometimes wonder if Glasgow signed some kind of exclusivity deal with Emirates for x years whereby they would not allow another middle East carrier in.

​​​​​there should be some questions asked in Glasgow Chamber of Commerce.
Emirates will be focusing east by the end of the decade like the TATLs did. GLA will be on a par with ABZ, just about surviving with service to LHR, DUB, AMS, some rUK and Med flights. That's it.

No need for a centralised airport anymore. Its EDI, just slightly further east than we ideally might have liked.

[NotanAVGeek]

Nice to see the big bird Emirates make an appearance today in EDI, albeit a brief one after diverting from GLA

[Sk1schoolsam]

Delta to Atlanta to return next summer:



https://thepointsguy.com/news/delta-new-transatlantic-routes-summer-2023/

Atlanta – Edinburgh eff 25MAY23 5 weekly 767-300ER (Last served until October 2007)
DL034 ATL2105 – 1005+1EDI 76W x13
DL035 EDI1205 – 1600ATL 76W x24

[Richard Taylor]

Emirates will be focusing east by the end of the decade like the TATLs did. GLA will be on a par with ABZ, just about surviving with service to LHR, DUB, AMS, some rUK and Med flights. That's it.

No need for a centralised airport anymore. Its EDI, just slightly further east than we ideally might have liked.

AGS. Three airports. One journey (to hell). No wonder Provan is leaving.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Emirates will be focusing east by the end of the decade like the TATLs did. GLA will be on a par with ABZ, just about surviving with service to LHR, DUB, AMS, some rUK and Med flights. That's it.

No need for a centralised airport anymore. Its EDI, just slightly further east than we ideally might have liked.
EDI has done to GLA what 1980s GLA did to PIK!
Having said that, there's a case that if EDI is now Scotland's gateway to the world, it probably needs rebuilding for the 2030s and the CAPEX needed might not be forthcoming? They're currently doing the old BAA thing of squeezing a pint into a 1/2 pint glass and as we bounce back, it's going to be shown up as exactly that in the years ahead. That's still a 1977 terminal and layout planned on a fraction of the throughput.

[willy wombat]

EDI has done to GLA what 1980s GLA did to PIK!
Having said that, there's a case that if EDI is now Scotland's gateway to the world, it probably needs rebuilding for the 2030s and the CAPEX needed might not be forthcoming? They're currently doing the old BAA thing of squeezing a pint into a 1/2 pint glass and as we bounce back, it's going to be shown up as exactly that in the years ahead. That's still a 1977 terminal and layout planned on a fraction of the throughput.
as someone who uses EDI regularly (as a pax) I wholeheartedly agree with the comments re the terminal, ‘though it was lovely to use during covid when it was pretty empty!

[inOban]

Wasn't there a significant extension just before Covid?

[edi_local]

EDI has done to GLA what 1980s GLA did to PIK!
Having said that, there's a case that if EDI is now Scotland's gateway to the world, it probably needs rebuilding for the 2030s and the CAPEX needed might not be forthcoming? They're currently doing the old BAA thing of squeezing a pint into a 1/2 pint glass and as we bounce back, it's going to be shown up as exactly that in the years ahead. That's still a 1977 terminal and layout planned on a fraction of the throughput.

Not only is it a 1977 terminal with bits added on, but it also doesn't even have modern-day features you'd expect from a nation's principal airport, especially one as busy and well connected as EDI. For example, it lacks any international to international transit, requiring all arrivals to clear UK immigration, even those with no desire to visit The UK. There is no duty-free on arrival or indeed any dedicated security lane for transit passengers...or staff! The departure lounge isn't even set up to cater to such passengers. The airport also has an overreliance on remote stands being used at peak times. The access roads to the terminal are so bad it really is like some kind of parody. There is no excuse for any of this other sheer laziness or incompetence. A whole new terminal should have been built a decade or so ago, instead of the half-hearted Pier, and then the even less inspiring Eastern extension, which does barely anything to address the congestion issues the airport is rife with. It seems the BAA mentality is just set to continue at EDI for some time to come.

[edi_local]

Wasn't there a significant extension just before Covid?

It did add a new international arrivals hall and some jetties for wide-body aircraft, but it all looks very rushed and cheap with roofs and wiring being left exposed and it feels extremely unwelcoming. The seating areas at the gates are not big enough for the aircraft they were built to serve and there is often overcrowding at the lounges in the new area. Not to mention, the old EDI problem of one gate being used for 2 stands, and corridors having to be closed off to allow for bussed-in arrivals, so departing and arriving passengers don't mix still exist and It still suffers from passengers being held in damp, cold tunnels at busy times. They had a blank slate and the best they could come up with is still not fit for purpose, to be honest.

[A350Saltire]

It did add a new international arrivals hall and some jetties for wide-body aircraft, but it all looks very rushed and cheap with roofs and wiring being left exposed and it feels extremely unwelcoming. The seating areas at the gates are not big enough for the aircraft they were built to serve and there is often overcrowding at the lounges in the new area. Not to mention, the old EDI problem of one gate being used for 2 stands, and corridors having to be closed off to allow for bussed-in arrivals, so departing and arriving passengers don't mix still exist and It still suffers from passengers being held in damp, cold tunnels at busy times. They had a blank slate and the best they could come up with is still not fit for purpose, to be honest.

The new international arrivals hall was always supposed to be temporary I thought until the next phase of expansion takes place - building out east and then south-east.

Covid delayed that expansion but I imagine it is probably back on the cards again. They are definitely going to need more stands for wide bodies given the time some aircraft waited for a stand this summer.

I think the team at EDI have done a fantastic job growing the portfolio of routes and establishing EDI as the main Scottish airport and often they do not get enough credit for that however they must now address the infrastructure properly.

[Planeraz]

The new international arrivals hall was always supposed to be temporary I thought until the next phase of expansion takes place - building out east and then south-east.

Covid delayed that expansion but I imagine it is probably back on the cards again. They are definitely going to need more stands for wide bodies given the time some aircraft waited for a stand this summer.

I think the team at EDI have done a fantastic job growing the portfolio of routes and establishing EDI as the main Scottish airport and often they do not get enough credit for that however they must now address the infrastructure properly.

I agree with what others have said re the current terminal and set up. It really isn’t big enough, set up or well enough equipped to cope with the current portfolio of routes and the likelihood of more long haul routes. The expected return of emirates with a 773 will also add to the pressures. The current pier could be extended further and more air bridges added to accommodate wide body aircraft. They also have the option of a brand new satellite type building to the east. This would obviously come at a huge cost and would require underground access for pax, possibly with a transit train. Like many American airports have. The current owners haven’t hidden their desire to sell if the price is right. Pre pandemic they were actively marketing a sale. Substantial investment is needed to take the airport to the next level. Hopefully exciting times ahead.

[ld0595]

Can't disagree with any of the comments there. The other thing I'd add is that an expansion of the check in area is badly needed. I find it incredibly crowded during peak periods with lines out the door in some cases.

They've managed to use every square metre they can with the current setup but I don't see where else they can expand to with the current space available. Pretty much whole ground floor is full of check in desks now.

[tartan 201]

Not only is it a 1977 terminal with bits added on, but it also doesn't even have modern-day features you'd expect from a nation's principal airport, especially one as busy and well connected as EDI. For example, it lacks any international to international transit, requiring all arrivals to clear UK immigration, even those with no desire to visit The UK. There is no duty-free on arrival or indeed any dedicated security lane for transit passengers...or staff! The departure lounge isn't even set up to cater to such passengers. The airport also has an overreliance on remote stands being used at peak times. The access roads to the terminal are so bad it really is like some kind of parody. There is no excuse for any of this other sheer laziness or incompetence. A whole new terminal should have been built a decade or so ago, instead of the half-hearted Pier, and then the even less inspiring Eastern extension, which does barely anything to address the congestion issues the airport is rife with. It seems the BAA mentality is just set to continue at EDI for some time to come.

The number of people making an international to international connection at Edinburgh must be a vanishingly small proportion of the overall total number of passengers. Facilitating that connection would require some form of passageway to connect the two passport control points with the security screening area or additional security screening areas. Neither easy nor cheap to do and for very little return.

A planning application for a new access road is with the Scottish Government for determination.

A new terminal would be hugely expensive and disruptive. Perhaps the lack of things you cite above doesn't arise from "sheer laziness or incompetence" but from a hard-headed analysis of costs versus expected returns?

[SWBKCB]

A new terminal would be hugely expensive and disruptive. Perhaps the lack of things you cite above doesn't arise from "sheer laziness or incompetence" but from a hard-headed analysis of costs versus expected returns?

Spending somebody elses money is dead easy. As soon as you see phrases like "doesn't even have modern-day features you'd expect from a nation's principal airport" you know where it's going...

[Sk1schoolsam]

Spending somebody elses money is dead easy. As soon as you see phrases like "doesn't even have modern-day features you'd expect from a nation's principal airport" you know where it's going...

…..please enlighten me…..where is it going? 😉

[nighthawk117]

The number of people making an international to international connection at Edinburgh must be a vanishingly small proportion of the overall total number of passengers

If by vanishingly small, you mean non existent. EDI isn't a transfer airport, and none of the international airlines flying there offer transfers. It really isn't something the airport should be concerning themselves with.

[nighthawk117]

Edinburgh Airport was bought out by an infrastructure company, with the explicit aim of growing the airport and selling it on for a profit. This was clear from the start. For any such plan to work, they need to grow the number of flights for minimum expenditure. This is exactly what they have done.

If they sell it on.. the new owners are going to want to recoup their money as quick as possible, which means further growth and minimal expenditure.

Don't expect the terminal situation to change any time soon. Any owners are only going to be interested in the short term.

[tartan 201]

If by vanishingly small, you mean non existent. EDI isn't a transfer airport, and none of the international airlines flying there offer transfers. It really isn't something the airport should be concerning themselves with.

I chose the phrase "vanishingly small" rather than non-existent deliberately. At least one of the international airlines serving EDI offers it as a connecting point: KLM will sell an AMS-FAE route via EDI.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x2000/screenshot_20220925_172821_9aa50b87b58463af0e2302f7c7a0fee7c 992cb03.png

[inOban]

And I've heard of someone flying from Iceland to the Canary Islands using easyjet

[Planeraz]

Qatar W22

Qatar really mixing up the type of aircraft being used. Another 351 due in tomorrow. The previously planned 787-8 only from October also changed. 359 continues throughout the winter on many dates. Occasional 787-8 and quite a few 789’s. A few of the 359’s operating is newer cabin Q-suites. A nice little bonus if you happen to be sitting up front.

[Planeraz]

Delta S23

Atlanta route now on sale.

Although subject to change, Delta using higher density J class 763 on BOS and JFK routes next summer. 10 more J seats than on 763 currently being used. Premium select not offered on this variant. An indication that J class performed very strongly in S22? They normally operate higher density premium cabin equipment on routes such as LHR.

J- 36
Comfort plus - 34
Economy - 143
Total - 213

For ATL, DL using same configured 763 currently serving existing routes.

J - 26
Comfort plus - 35
Economy - 171
Total - 232

Premium Select configured equipment still being used on JFK route - W22.

[Planeraz]

Qatar W22

Qatar really mixing up the type of aircraft being used. Another 351 due in tomorrow. The previously planned 787-8 only from October also changed. 359 continues throughout the winter on many dates. Occasional 787-8 and quite a few 789’s. A few of the 359’s operating is newer cabin Q-suites. A nice little bonus if you happen to be sitting up front.

First time visitor to EDI. A 773 operating tomorrows services (27/9). Student demand? The return EDI-DOH on QR website is showing as sold out. I know they swap equipment around for various reasons, but is demand so high that they can fill a 773 on a Tuesday?

[NotanAVGeek]

First time visitor to EDI. A 773 operating tomorrows services (27/9). Student demand? The return EDI-DOH on QR website is showing as sold out. I know they swap equipment around for various reasons, but is demand so high that they can fill a 773 on a Tuesday?

Today’s A350-1000 outbound sector was cancelled so could be something to do with it

[tartan 201]

First time visitor to EDI. A 773 operating tomorrows services (27/9). Student demand? The return EDI-DOH on QR website is showing as sold out. I know they swap equipment around for various reasons, but is demand so high that they can fill a 773 on a Tuesday?

Today's outbound was cancelled, so the 773 will be to accommodate some of today's passengers.

[Planeraz]

Qatar W22

Qatar really mixing up the type of aircraft being used. Another 351 due in tomorrow. The previously planned 787-8 only from October also changed. 359 continues throughout the winter on many dates. Occasional 787-8 and quite a few 789’s. A few of the 359’s operating is newer cabin Q-suites. A nice little bonus if you happen to be sitting up front.

[QUOTE=tartan 201;11303179]Today's outbound was cancelled, so the 773 will be to accommodate some of today's passengers.

Makes sense. Thanks. I assume the 359 went tech?

[tartan 201]

Makes sense. Thanks. I assume the 359 went tech?

Presumably, but it was an A35K

[willy wombat]

How on earth do QR crew this with all these different types?

[Porrohman]

[QUOTE=tartan 201;11303179]Today's outbound was cancelled, so the 773 will be to accommodate some of today's passengers.

Makes sense. Thanks. I assume the 359 went tech?

Local news is reporting a collision involving A35K and an airbridge; https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-airport-plane-hits-walkway-25120338

Another forum suggests that an engine nacelle has been damaged. The A35K has spent a second night at EDI.

[Sotonsean]

[QUOTE=Planeraz;11303182]

Local news is reporting a collision involving A35K and an airbridge; https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-airport-plane-hits-walkway-25120338

Another forum suggests that an engine nacelle has been damaged. The A35K has spent a second night at EDI.

Regarding that ridiculously written article. All I can quote from it is, "cold, scared and hungry" what the f**k.

[tictack67]

[QUOTE=Porrohman;11303945]

Regarding that ridiculously written article. All I can quote from it is, "cold, scared and hungry" what the f**k.

Do they disembark by steps for immigration hall and then reposition the jetty? Wondered why on boarding it was hit, so maybe manoeuvring the jetty onto the L2 door would have thought the dispatcher heard the crank hitting the engine esp as they then started to board

[Sk1schoolsam]

[QUOTE=Sotonsean;11304037]

Do they disembark by steps for immigration hall and then reposition the jetty? Wondered why on boarding it was hit, so maybe manoeuvring the jetty onto the L2 door would have thought the dispatcher heard the crank hitting the engine esp as they then started to board

I have seen other reports that it’s nothing to do with the main airbridge, the plane did not hit anything, it was the Swissport special assurance loading vey that hit the engine cowling.

Report is terrible, misinformed and inflammatory but there does appear to have been a lack of post incident customer care. In saying that anyone would feel a bit unhappy and disgruntled and could easily put a bad spin on the events even if the staff were trying very hard to arrange overnight accommodation, transport and rebookings for a busy flight with a large number of passengers.

[Sk1schoolsam]

[QUOTE=Porrohman;11303945]

Regarding that ridiculously written article. All I can quote from it is, "cold, scared and hungry" what the f**k.

What a dreadfully written tabloid article lacking credible facts, knowledge and full of inflammatory and sensationalist views.

[The96er]

[QUOTE=tictack67;11304054]

I have seen other reports that it’s nothing to do with the main airbridge, the plane did not hit anything, it was the Swissport special assurance loading vey that hit the engine cowling.
.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is ‘Swissport special assurance loading’ ?

[tictack67]

[QUOTE=Sk1schoolsam;11304099]

Forgive my ignorance, but what is ‘Swissport special assurance loading’ ?

Sounds like an ambilift truck. A truck that loads people using wheelchairs onto the aircraft, just a guess and similar to file photo below.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x525/csm_ambulift_flughafen_berlin_f065a85090_595b40d92b59c5ddcae a3ec6fdcfc0a38a8959d7.jpg
,

[A350Saltire]

C17 on its way from Doha now with a replacement engine or engine cowling presumably.

[Planeraz]

C17 on its way from Doha now with a replacement engine or engine cowling presumably.

Quite a costly coming together by all accounts. Swissport better have a good insurance policy….

[tartan 201]

C17 on its way from Doha now with a replacement engine or engine cowling presumably.

Not many airlines can call on their country's air force to ferry a spare part for them.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Why didn't they just wheel people down the airbridge?

[NotanAVGeek]

[QUOTE=Sotonsean;11304037]

Do they disembark by steps for immigration hall and then reposition the jetty? Wondered why on boarding it was hit, so maybe manoeuvring the jetty onto the L2 door would have thought the dispatcher heard the crank hitting the engine esp as they then started to board

It was after boarding when the jetbridge was being removed Pre departure.

I believe the double jetty was in use.

Those Edinburgh live articles and the like are so embarrassing. Similar to the articles around LHR last night with the ground collision.

[Planeraz]

[QUOTE=tictack67;11304054]

It was after boarding when the jetbridge was being removed Pre departure.

I believe the double jetty was in use.

Those Edinburgh live articles and the like are so embarrassing. Similar to the articles around LHR last night with the ground collision.

Interesting that the double AB was in use. Is this a regular occurrence at EDI? Normally they are only used to speed up the boarding process. Having flown twice with Emirates previously from EDI on a 773 and Qatar in July on a 359, only a single AB was used.

[Planeraz]

Qatar

Subject to change, which Qatar have been good at recently, more equipment changes. Another 773 due in on Saturday with an A333 the following Saturday. Qatar A333 is quite an outdated product, particularly in J. Bit of a bummer if you expected to be in a Q-Suite on an 359!

[tictack67]

Looks like Ryanair are returning EDI-STN to complement Easyjet's 2 flights a day, Ryanair will be a daily flight from 30th Oct then double daily from 1st Deccomplement EZY Edinburgh aircraft and FR a STN aircraft so good spread of timings


Credit Seanm1977 twitter

[NotanAVGeek]

[QUOTE=NotanAVGeek;11304909]

Interesting that the double AB was in use. Is this a regular occurrence at EDI? Normally they are only used to speed up the boarding process. Having flown twice with Emirates previously from EDI on a 773 and Qatar in July on a 359, only a single AB was used.

It’s not all that common, initially the jetty for the L1 door was too steep back in the Emirates days, however that is going back a while. I have only seen it a handful of times since covid.

[SWBKCB]

Can somebody summarise what services to the US are confirmed for next summer? Thought there was a previous post which had done so but couldn't find it.

[tartan 201]

Can somebody summarise what services to the US are confirmed for next summer? Thought there was a previous post which had done so but couldn't find it.

United: ORD, IAD, EWR (all daily)
Delta: BOS, JFK (both daily), ATL (five-weekly)
Virgin: MCO (twice-weekly)

​​​​​​Wednesdays should see nine transatlantic flights: the above plus Air Canada and WestJet to Toronto. Pretty impressive and would be even more so if AA restarted (no idea if they will).

[SWBKCB]

Thanks - was talking to a colleague who is planning a first visit to family post covid who wasn't aware of EDI as an option to the US.

EDI is about the same as MAN by public transport from Newcastle but now has better options to the States. AMS has done itself no favours this year.

[Asturias56]

"EDI is about the same as MAN by public transport from Newcastle"

its a lot pleasanter trip by train from NCL - EDI than NCL - MAN

[SWBKCB]

"EDI is about the same as MAN by public transport from Newcastle"

its a lot pleasanter trip by train from NCL - EDI than NCL - MAN

Wouldn't argue with that - full size trains for a start - I was thinking about journey times :ok:

[Rutan16]

Wouldn't argue with that - full size trains for a start - I was thinking about journey times :ok:

Same Hitachi series train sets used.

Not all the LnER are nine cars , indeed about half the fleet are actually 5 cars ( identical to Trans Peninne) through coupled together forming ten on some services.

:ok:

[SWBKCB]

I was thinking more about the type of coaches used rather than the length of the train - last time I used Trans Peninne to MAN it was more like being on the bus I used to get to the station than an intercity train service (I appreciate that it wasn't a train used on a service to London, so my expectations were reduced in advance). They must have upgraded their fleet.

[Rutan16]

I was thinking more about the type of coaches used rather than the length of the train - last time I used Trans Peninne to MAN it was more like being on the bus I used to get to the station than an intercity train service (I appreciate that it wasn't a train used on a service to London, so my expectations were reduced in advance). They must have upgraded their fleet.

Prior to the Hitachi trains entering service in 2017 they used three car Class 185 train sets often coupled in pairs.

They remain servicing Redcar south, occasional Scarborough - Liverpool and the core Liverpool - Hull corridor
These are definitely outer suburban stock and not up to inter city standards

Trans Pennine west cost Manchester - Scotland now use new Spanish built electric five car sets pretty nice equipment also from 2017 onwards.

And the remaining Liverpool/Manchester - Scarborough services use a real live diesel locomotive and special fixed sets of five coaches from 2018.

Almost all long routes use one of the three sets above now, substantially new and the Hitachi sets are of the bimode variety; Diesel between Huddersfield and Manchester and again from Church Fenton to just before Leeds.

Caveat the seats on the Hitachi are operator specific and from a personal perspective the Trans Pennine seat is a little better in padding and support over the Department for Transport seat specified in the LnER and GWR train sets.

Only real difference is catering options on the two differing routes and operators . The nine car LnER trains have a buffet in coach G and the five cars each have their own in Coach B.

Trans Pennine is cart service only .

By the way the services and most ticket options from Newcastle to and from Edinburgh and the timetables are coordinated so either operator may be used .

Not so Lumo through they are an open access operator and you can travel between Newcastle and Edinburgh only on their own dockets . And also use a version the same 5 car Hitachi train set !
And operate five trains a day each way from Kings x and Edinburgh stoping in Newcastle.

[Breathe]

Edinburgh Airport was bought out by an infrastructure company, with the explicit aim of growing the airport and selling it on for a profit. This was clear from the start. For any such plan to work, they need to grow the number of flights for minimum expenditure. This is exactly what they have done.

If they sell it on.. the new owners are going to want to recoup their money as quick as possible, which means further growth and minimal expenditure.

Don't expect the terminal situation to change any time soon. Any owners are only going to be interested in the short term.
Just to clarify that Global Infrastructure Partners, despite it's name is not an infrastructure company. It is a private equity firm that makes investments in infrastructure companies. Sadly I do concur that all GIP are interested in are making as much profit from the airport with as little investment as they can get away with. Unless new owners have longer term ambitions, perhaps with a an airport operator on board like i.e. an airport partner like ADP, Dubai Airports Company etc.

Incheon Airport were looking at making a bid back when BAA were forced into selling the airport. One wonders what might have been if they had made a successful bid. More here: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2012-01-10/edinburgh-airport-sale-lures-koreans-jpmorgan-said-to-mull-bid

[Breathe]

United: ORD, IAD, EWR (all daily)
Delta: BOS, JFK (both daily), ATL (five-weekly)
Virgin: MCO (twice-weekly)

​​​​​​Wednesdays should see nine transatlantic flights: the above plus Air Canada and WestJet to Toronto. Pretty impressive and would be even more so if AA restarted (no idea if they will).
I've read that AA are meant to be announcing their S23 transatlantic routes fairly imminently. If they have enough aircraft and crew I could see them restarting PHL with a 787-8.

[Breathe]

Do folk think any of the following routes are likely to return by next summer?

Emirates - DXB
AA - PHL
BA - LGW
Iberia Express - MAD

[Planeraz]

Do folk think any of the following routes are likely to return by next summer?

Emirates - DXB
AA - PHL
BA - LGW
Iberia Express - MAD

Emirates - Yes
American - Yes (possibly a surprise extra route)
BA - No
Iberia - No
Edelweiss switch to Swiss mainline.

[CabinCrewe]

Do folk think any of the following routes are likely to return by next summer?

Emirates - DXB - Possibly, but not nailed on
AA - PHL - No
BA - LGW - No
Iberia Express - MAD - No

[GrahamK]

Do folk think any of the following routes are likely to return by next summer?

Emirates - DXB
AA - PHL
BA - LGW
Iberia Express - MAD
No, No, No, Yes

[Asturias56]

Wouldn't argue with that - full size trains for a start - I was thinking about journey times :ok:


Normally a lot fewer stop to Edinburgh - makes it seem a LOT shorter

[NotanAVGeek]

It’s fantastic for the airport to have so many transatlantic flights now. It really is incredible but one wonders where they will be parked. It’s often a struggle at the best of times for stands and with even more traffic next year. All it takes is a technical issue with an aircraft (let’s be honest it is pretty frequent) then they are screwed for space. Even today there was a United 767 delayed 7 hours, a Delta ended over at cargo after developing a tech issue.

Will be interesting to see if AA and EK return.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

They're not all planned to be on the apron at the same time, e.g. one United pushes to make way for another arriving, same with Delta. It's hot-gating if you will, like Glasgow in it's first few transatlantic years before the new Intl Pier...

[NotanAVGeek]

They're not all planned to be on the apron at the same time, e.g. one United pushes to make way for another arriving, same with Delta. It's hot-gating if you will, like Glasgow in it's first few transatlantic years before the new Intl Pier...

I’m well aware of that, however today being a prime example of struggling when only 2 are on the deck and a QR. Could be double this at any one time next year. Also doesn’t help the usual QR stand is still not operational after last weeks incident with the jetbridge.

TK have also been using a wide body a bit more frequently too.

[tartan 201]

They're not all planned to be on the apron at the same time, e.g. one United pushes to make way for another arriving, same with Delta. It's hot-gating if you will, like Glasgow in it's first few transatlantic years before the new Intl Pier...

I don't think it's quite that simple Looking at Wednesdays in S23, the arrival and departure times are scheduled to be:

EWR 0805 - 0940
ORD 0825 - 1130
BOS 0835 - 1335 BOS aircraft goes out to JFK
YYZ (AC) 0835 - 1015
MCO 0850 - 1110
JFK 1005 - 1035 JFK aircraft goes out to BOS
ATL 1005 - 1205
IAD 1045 - 1230

A >65 minute delay to EWR and a >30 minute delay to AC, and everything else arriving on schedule, would see all of the above on the ground at the same time. There's also QR DOH 0650 - 0820 and WestJet YYZ 0905 - 1025.

[Planeraz]

I don't think it's quite that simple Looking at Wednesdays in S23, the arrival and departure times are scheduled to be:

EWR 0805 - 0940 (tel:0805 - 0940)
ORD 0825 - 1130
BOS 0835 - 1335 (tel:0835 - 1335) BOS aircraft goes out to JFK
YYZ (AC) 0835 - 1015 (tel:0835 - 1015)
MCO 0850 - 1110 (tel:0850 - 1110)
JFK 1005 - 1035 JFK aircraft goes out to BOS
ATL 1005 - 1205
IAD 1045 - 1230

A >65 minute delay to EWR and a >30 minute delay to AC, and everything else arriving on schedule, would see all of the above on the ground at the same time. There's also QR DOH 0650 - 0820 (tel:0650 - 0820) and WestJet YYZ 0905 - 1025.

As many have commented, it’s a nice problem to have so many long haul services. This summer, at most times, UA have been allocated the 1-4 gates. 1-3 can accommodate 752’s at the same time. Gate 4 can take up to a 777 and a 359. AC and Delta have been allocated 13-18. 13 can take up to a 763/788. AC on a number of occasions used 12. Steps only gate. The other gates can take all the wide-bodies, but not at the same time. The crazy set-up means all pax arriving into these gates must be cleared before departing pax can board. The airport must surely have known this would happen. The same issue happens at gates 1-4. Smacks of a cheap option, badly designed terminal extension. Gate 11 can accommodate 788’s and a 333. This gate in the past accommodated Etihad aircraft. BA then appeared to monopolise this gate for a time. As we know, for now, BA have slashed departures from EDI. I’m not sure why they don’t use this gate more often for DL or AC. The only ideal solution, would be a multi level satellite terminal, like they have at Heathrow. This would obviously come at a huge cost and is very unlikely to happen with the current owners.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I think we're actively looking for problems now. In all fairness, there is no real reason why you couldn't use the South East pier and bus arrivals if needs be. It can take at least up to B767 size on some gates.....
They're not in a position, nor have an ROI to build much else at the moment. They've surely reached the limit of what the original 1977 terminal can deal with in terms of bolt-ons.

[Asturias56]

Have to keep space for the Head of States terminal after Independence as well of ocurse

[willy wombat]

Is EDI fully coordinated by ACL these days?

[fjencl]

Ryanair starting EDI - STN - EDI from october 30th, twice a day .......

[commit aviation]

Is EDI fully coordinated by ACL these days?

If you mean Level 3 (Slot Coordinated) then no - it's Level 2 (Schedules Facilitated Airport)
UK Level 3 airports (according to IATA website) are the 5 London ones (LHR LGW STN LTN LCY) plus MAN BHX and BRS in summer (Level 2 in winter)

[Planeraz]

Aug 2022 - EDI Route statistics

Someone will no doubt be able to calculate roughly what load percentages were.

QR - DOH 17,350 (Best comparison available is Aug 2019 when Qatar operated double daily 3 x per week if I remember rightly? - 19,432)
AC - YYZ - 15,852
DL - JFK - 13,095 (Aug 2019 - 9,163 on a 752 aircraft)
DL - BOS - 9,078
UA - EWR - 10,075 (Aug 2019 - 9755)
UA - ORD - 9576 (Aug 2019 - 8970)
UA - IAD - 13,448 (Aug 2019 - 8611 on a 752 aircraft)
VS - MCO - 3,802

QR- DOH appears to have performed very strongly.
AC and WS - YYZ must be happy with the peak summer performance. Surely sufficient demand exists to have some form of year round service on this route?
DL - JFK returning a very healthy performance and fairly substantial increase in pax numbers compared to 2019. Albeit on a slightly larger capacity 763.
DL - BOS. Very strong considering only 5 x weekly. Going daily in S23 which is a sign of confidence in the route.
All the UA routes appear to have performed very strongly. IAD is the obvious standout. Again using a higher capacity 764. 239 seats compared to a 169 seat 752.
VS - MCO. Currently on sale for S23 but VS is well known for doing random things. Time will tell if this is good enough to retain the route in the long run.

[ld0595]

All looks pretty positive - hope the success of transatlantic routes keeps up!

Wonder if we'll see EWR upgraded at some point? Isn't it the only year round narrowbody transatlantic flight that United operate?

I'd agree with you on a year round Toronto route. I reckon Air Canada could sustain it during the winter on the 737 Max or when their A321XLRs arrive - even if it's kept at a 3x weekly service. Even Glasgow can sustain a YYZ route! Albeit only once weekly.

[Planeraz]

All looks pretty positive - hope the success of transatlantic routes keeps up!

Wonder if we'll see EWR upgraded at some point? Isn't it the only year round narrowbody transatlantic flight that United operate?

I'd agree with you on a year round Toronto route. I reckon Air Canada could sustain it during the winter on the 737 Max or when their A321XLRs arrive - even if it's kept at a 3x weekly service. Even Glasgow can sustain a YYZ route! Albeit only once weekly.

UA -EWR. I believe you are correct re the only transatlantic year round route served by a 752. With 752’s gradually being phased out, they will eventually have to utilise other aircraft types. It’s the aircraft availability issue I assume. The obvious upgrade currently would be to a 788. I suspect they will plod on with a 752 for as long as they can before they take delivery of the 321XLR’s.

[A350Saltire]

Ok obviously I am going to be positive about EDI but that is a very very strong set of results particularly North America. Don’t think it will be long before AA are back.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

You CANNOT say a route is performing very strongly based on absolute volumes, load factor will be leading indicator and yield will be commercially sensitive data. Extrapolating high summer nos meaning YYZ could go year needs to factor in seasonality in Canada where the capacity is better used on Snowbird flights South to the sunspots of Florida and the Carribean. Canada-UK remains massively seasonal, and frankly so is USA-UK, nothing wrong or too alarming about a winter hiatus. MAN-YYZ remains seasonal whereas DUB-YYZ has both Aer Lingus and Air Canada, with AC serving YYZ/YUL/YVR and YYZ flown year round. The perils of the LHR option!
United only have 12 B787-8s and their range isn't needed on an EDI rotation but Air Canada only have 8 and they'll be back next summer!
The new A321s will be along soon enough and it's not as if there's not enough of them around already, you guys will miss the B757/B767 show when it's over.

[Planeraz]

Aug 2022 - EDI Route statistics

Someone will no doubt be able to calculate roughly what load percentages were.

QR - DOH 17,350 (Best comparison available is Aug 2019 when Qatar operated double daily 3 x per week if I remember rightly? - 19,432)
AC - YYZ - 15,852
DL - JFK - 13,095 (Aug 2019 - 9,163 on a 752 aircraft)
DL - BOS - 9,078
UA - EWR - 10,075 (Aug 2019 - 9755)
UA - ORD - 9576 (Aug 2019 - 8970)
UA - IAD - 13,448 (Aug 2019 - 8611 on a 752 aircraft)
VS - MCO - 3,802

QR- DOH appears to have performed very strongly.
AC and WS - YYZ must be happy with the peak summer performance. Surely sufficient demand exists to have some form of year round service on this route?
DL - JFK returning a very healthy performance and fairly substantial increase in pax numbers compared to 2019. Albeit on a slightly larger capacity 763.
DL - BOS. Very strong considering only 5 x weekly. Going daily in S23 which is a sign of confidence in the route.
All the UA routes appear to have performed very strongly. IAD is the obvious standout. Again using a higher capacity 764. 239 seats compared to a 169 seat 752.
VS - MCO. Currently on sale for S23 but VS is well known for doing random things. Time will tell if this is good enough to retain the route in the long run.


LF’s

Rough calcs for some of the routes. Hopefully not too far off the mark.

EWR - 96%
DOH - 98%
ORD - 92%
IAD - 91%
JFK - 94%
BOS - 96%
MCO - 80%

[Planeraz]

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/298752/westjet-to-base-all-787s-long-haul-flying-at-calgary/

Could this be the end of EDI-YYZ with WestJet? All long haul destinations will be from Calgary. No mention specifically of 7M8 aircraft just 787’s. Potentially disappointing for the airport but good news for Air Canada. Will WS introduce EDI-Calgary? Would a 7M8 reach EDI?

[tictack67]

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/298752/westjet-to-base-all-787s-long-haul-flying-at-calgary/

Could this be the end of EDI-YYZ with WestJet? All long haul destinations will be from Calgary. No mention specifically of 7M8 aircraft just 787’s. Potentially disappointing for the airport but good news for Air Canada. Will WS introduce EDI-Calgary? Would a 7M8 reach EDI?

Sorry to disappoint, this article related to intercontinental "B787" flying only.

The B737max will still fly intercontinental

[Planeraz]

Sorry to disappoint, this article related to intercontinental "B787" flying only.

The B737max will still fly intercontinental

Not disappointing for me personally, but thanks for the concern! Good to hear this is only for 787 operations. Perhaps the wording of the article lead to some confusion.

[tartan 201]

Additional EZY based aircraft:

https://mediacentre.easyjet.com/story/15595/easyjet-announces-plans-to-base-additional-aircraft-in-scotland-and-puts-flights-on-sale-for-summer-2023

[inOban]

But it's not immediately obvious what the extra frame will be used for.

[Sk1schoolsam]

But it's not immediately obvious what the extra frame will be used for.

Dalaman is getting an extra weekly rotation I hear…..also Jersey rout me returning for S23
Suspect other capacity increases built into the current 39 routes.
Would have liked to have seen some North Africa routes added though, curd only through GLA

[Planeraz]

TK

Being reported that PIA have entered a codeshare agreement with TK. This will allow Pakistani pax to transit via IST to EDI. Could be very good news for EDI and TK. Large Pakistani community in Scotland. The Pakistani flights are normally rammed with luggage and cargo. This could lead to more wide body aircraft on the EDI-IST route.

[inOban]

if they're serious about easyjet holidays they'll need to offer more destinations in Spain and Portugal, and higher frequencies to the existing destinations

[GrahamK]

TK

Being reported that PIA have entered a codeshare agreement with TK. This will allow Pakistani pax to transit via IST to EDI. Could be very good news for EDI and TK. Large Pakistani community in Scotland. The Pakistani flights are normally rammed with luggage and cargo. This could lead to more wide body aircraft on the EDI-IST route.

The large Pakistani population is on the west coast though. Suspect they will continue to fly Emirates

[tictack67]

The large Pakistani population is on the west coast though. Suspect they will continue to fly Emirates

I agree in as much as Emirates is one of the very few connectors left out of Glasgow now.

That said, like most of us, the price will play a huge deciding factor for many groups.

[inOban]

As already reported on the SOU thread, Loganair are increasing flights to Southampton from both EDI and Glasgow to 5/day, 30/week. They're also increasing EXE to twice daily and adding a fourth flight to Bergen next summer. An additional EMB145 will be based at EDI.

[CabinCrewe]

The large Pakistani population is on the west coast though. Suspect they will continue to fly Emirates
and noone really relishes the VFR infrequent high luggage delayed flights. Oh and those cabins post flight… :bored:

[VickersVicount]

As already reported on the SOU thread, Loganair are increasing flights to Southampton from both EDI and Glasgow to 5/day, 30/week. They're also increasing EXE to twice daily and adding a fourth flight to Bergen next summer. An additional EMB145 will be based at EDI.
There is never 10 flights per day demand from Central Belt to SOU. Something will give if this is a spoiler pre- BE2

[inOban]

Aren't there already 8 flights/day?

[tartan 201]

VS - MCO. Currently on sale for S23 but VS is well known for doing random things. Time will tell if this is good enough to retain the route in the long run.

Looks like the start of this flight has been delayed until Wednesday 21st June, as part of a wider series of schedule adjustments referred to here: https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1579773510595260416

[Planeraz]

TK

Operating EDI-Antalya direct on next two Saturdays. Using a Max9. This in addition to SunExpress. I assume their must be high demand for some autumn sun. They are also using a A332 on tomorrow’s IST service. Booked full in economy and only 3 J seats left.

[Breathe]

Rumours that GIP might sell the airport for up to £3 billion.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-13/gip-is-said-to-consider-3-billion-sale-of-edinburgh-airport

Global Infrastructure Partners is considering a potential sale of Edinburgh Airport in Scotland, as global air travel picks up again after the pandemic, people familiar with the matter said.

The New York-based investor is speaking with potential advisers about the feasibility of a sale next year and has informally reached out to some suitors, the people said, asking not to be identified as the information is private.

Edinburgh Airport could be valued at as much as £3 billion ($3.4 billion) in a deal, according to the people. A sale is likely to draw other infrastructure funds and financial investors keen to expand in the sector, they said.

Deliberations are ongoing and GIP could also decide against a sale, the people said. Representatives for GIP and Edinburgh Airport declined to comment.

Edinburgh Airport is Britain’s sixth-busiest with flights to more than 150 destinations. It attracted around 15 million passengers in 2019, according to its website. Those numbers cratered during the coronavirus crisis but have been recovering as travel restrictions ease around the world.

To be sure, an ongoing cost-of-living crisis and Russia’s war in Ukraine are threatening to keep UK passenger numbers below historical averages this winter.

GIP acquired Edinburgh Airport in 2012 from BAA Ltd. for about £807 million. The infrastructure fund sold a controlling stake in London’s Gatwick Airport for £2.9 billion pounds to Vinci SA in 2018.

[mwm991]

GIP have done an excellent job with it. To cash out with over 2.5bn worth of profit on their initial purchase would be some going.

[Planeraz]

Interesting times for sure. The airport has been for sale for many years now. This is not a huge surprise. If the price is right, GIP will sell. No doubt. The big question is if a new owner has the cash and ambition to take the airport to the next level. I doubt many would disagree that the existing terminal and extension is not ideal. Massive expenditure would be required to create an airport capable of handling +15 to 20 million.

[Wycombe]

Aren't there already 8 flights/day?
Most weekdays, yes. This does look like an attempt by LOG to dent demand for BEE before they start. One suspects BEE will be significantly cheaper though, and the Q400 is only about 5-10 mins slower than the EMB on those routes.

[inOban]

For the past 10 years, interest rates have been zero, but no longer. If someone pays £3billion then their priority will be to pay the interest, not to invest further. A lit of businesses bought on borrowed money are, or are going to be, in difficulty.
If GIP wish to get some money back from their investment, they should sell off a proportion of the shares.

[willy wombat]

How much debt is EDI carrying?

[tictack67]

How much debt is EDI carrying?

https://corporate.edinburghairport.com/doing-business-with-us/investor-relations

[Asturias56]

"big question is if a new owner has the cash and ambition to take the airport to the next level."

The main priority of a new buyer will be to get their money back ASAP - they'll be looking at "savings" ie cuts rather than more cash out

[VickersVicount]

cuts rather than more
Oooft don’t tell them that…

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Cuts in forward investment rather than cuts in the literal sense I suspect.

[VickersVicount]

Cuts in forward investment rather than cuts in the literal sense I suspect.
….yes, we got that

[TriBeCa]

Isn’t that rather expensive for a shopping centre with the inconvenience of a runway attached to it?

[tictack67]

Isn’t that rather expensive for a shopping centre with the inconvenience of a runway attached to it?

Like most things in life, the value of something is what someone is prepared to pay for it.

The current list of routes and airlines is impressive and something BAA were never able to achieve at their airports in Scotland even all the money they pumped into Glasgow

[ATNotts]

Like most things in life, the value of something is what someone is prepared to pay for it.

The current list of routes and airlines is impressive and something BAA were never able to achieve at their airports in Scotland even all the money they pumped into Glasgow
In fairness for most of the BAA tenure EDI wasn't the important city that it has become since devolution raised its international profile considerably.
​​​​​​

[Asturias56]

"BAA were never able to achieve at their airports in Scotland "

BAA only saw Scots airports as feeders for LHR I'm afraid

[tictack67]

BAA only saw Scots airports as feeders for LHR I'm afraid

Yes and thanks to Air2000 who got rid of the ludicrous only transatlantic can go from PIK, where they flew GLA-PIK-MCO to prove a point.

Now Edi has several USA services as well as daily YYZ

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

"BAA were never able to achieve at their airports in Scotland "

BAA only saw Scots airports as feeders for LHR I'm afraid
That's mis-remembering history, they saw one Scottish airport as having a long haul future and spent accordingly. Scottish Airports MD, Vernon Murphy had a vision to build out GLA and David Coltman at UA promised ORD and IAD daily if PIK's protected status was removed.

In the early 1990s, GLA had NW, AC, AA, BA and UA all flying long haul schedules to BOS, YHZ. YYZ, ORD and JFK, and that's why they got approval to built what is now the West Pier. Almost as soon as that was approved the bubble burst. NW left followed by UA, AC and AA went seasonal and both eventually left the GLA market, twice !

BTW the famous Air 2000 routing was usually GLA-PIK (fuel and crew change) -BGR-MCO !

Now with the passage of time I reckon Joe Curry was right about a lot if things, EDI WAS in my view held back and constrained as was PIK, BAA were right about one thing, there was only really room for one major Scottish gateway airport, 1990s thinking had that as GLA, it ended up being EDI.

[Asturias56]

"Almost as soon as that was approved the bubble burst"

Any thoughts on WHY this happened?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The Scottish market was way too small and seasonal at the time, with four majors flying daily to the US and one to Canada, no one made money. And United and Air Canada could stay in market using British Midland rather than commit their own metal, it was the early days of STAR ALLIANCE. It rebalanced when Continental offered a daily year round GLA-EWR on the right size of aircraft for the time.

Cut to BAA selling EDI and later GLA and the market is a lot bigger and can support multiple daily operators BUT mainly from one hub airport.

[Asturias56]

Thanks

[willy wombat]

In terms of EDI’s growth, I suspect it is also the case that EDI has been more competitive than GLA in the offers it has put forward to attract new carriers and routes (European as well as intercontinental) which is why I am curious as to how much debt EDI is carrying. Exchange rates are also a big issue as they currently (and for quite a while) have favoured inbound travellers and EDI is easily the bigger inbound market whereas GLA was traditionally the stronger outbound market. Geographic location is also a huge factor. EDI is almost “Glasgow East” because of its location whereas if it was, for example, south of Musselburgh, that would not be the case. Indeed, if you look at the various locations that were proposed in the 1960s for a Central Scotland Airport, EDI is not very far away from them.

[A350Saltire]

A big contributing factor is simply that EDI has had better and more aggressive management since it was bought by GIP compared to GLA. What a difference it has made.

Edinburgh as the Capital City and as a destination has such a strong draw you can see why it has flourished. That and many of the points mentioned in previous posts.

[Planeraz]

Qatar

A rare visitor to EDI. QR using a 772LR on tomorrows service. From memory, EK used this variant on a couple of occasions when the Dubai route operated.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/a7-bbf

[Sk1schoolsam]

TK

Being reported that PIA have entered a codeshare agreement with TK. This will allow Pakistani pax to transit via IST to EDI. Could be very good news for EDI and TK. Large Pakistani community in Scotland. The Pakistani flights are normally rammed with luggage and cargo. This could lead to more wide body aircraft on the EDI-IST route.

Latest post from Areoroutes earlier today appears not to include EDI in the UK code share list. Other UK destinations for TK are included.

[Planeraz]

Transatlantic Route? S23 - slots. Credit Sean M

Slots applied for in S23. The question is by whom and to where? Will it actually happen?

LAX continue to offer big financial incentives and Scotland is on their target list. JetBlue to Boston? American to somewhere new or the resumption of PHL?

[ld0595]

I would've thought a resumption of PHL is the most likely.

As great as an LAX service would be, I can't see any obvious contenders for who would operate it. The only transatlantic routes operated by the US3 are Heathrow and Paris so Edinburgh would be a surprise. The other one could be Norse but they don't have any feed at either end.

[CabinCrewe]

I would've thought a resumption of PHL is the most likely.
A bit of of a flip flop route comes and goes here and there. Surely would just suck from another existing NE route? Im guessing those with slot access know.. so why not just share.
Slot applications do not mean definite route commencement as we’ve previously found.
JetBlue would be more of interest.

[ld0595]

A bit of of a flip flop route comes and goes here and there. Surely would just suck from another existing NE route? Im guessing those with slot access know.. so why not just share.
Slot applications do not mean definite route commencement as we’ve previously found.
JetBlue would be more of interest.

I recall AA were pencilled in to return in S22 but had to pull out because of 787 delivery woes.

[Planeraz]

I recall AA were pencilled in to return in S22 but had to pull out because of 787 delivery woes.

Perhaps all the assumptions/guesses that it could be another American route may be off the mark. Certainly not impossible that another Canadian route is on the cards. I believe WS have dropped Halifax to GLA. Vancouver on the west coast must be another possibility? AC or WS would need a 788/9 or a A332/3 to reach EDI.

[airhumberside]

If Westjet do anything on a B787 it will be from Calgary - all intercontinental B787 flights will be from there going forward

[Sk1schoolsam]

I recall AA were pencilled in to return in S22 but had to pull out because of 787 delivery woes.

Spoke with a senior AA crew member very recently who used be on the PHI - EDI route. Word is they are keen to restart EDI and DUB once they get the delayed 787’s delivered. S23 may be a possibility for them.

[AVGEEK7812]

Spoke with a senior AA crew member very recently who used be on the PHI - EDI route. Word is they are keen to restart EDI and DUB once they get the delayed 787’s delivered. S23 may be a possibility for them.

Are u sure it was DUB? They have already restarted all DUB routes. They did operate SNN PHL which was cancelled for S 22 because of the 787 delays as well like EDI.

[A350Saltire]

It sounds like it might be an additional Canadian route. I’d love to see AA back though and B6 would be fantastic although I’m sure our Glasgow friends would implode if that last one happened given they are sure B6 is going there.

[Planeraz]

It sounds like it might be an additional Canadian route. I’d love to see AA back though and B6 would be fantastic although I’m sure our Glasgow friends would implode if that last one happened given they are sure B6 is going there.

I understand AA never gave up their slots. The route was only suspended. They are due to announce S23 transatlantic routes any day now. Subject to aircraft availability, PHL could well return. JetBlue don’t deny that have been speaking to various UK airports. At the end of the day, like any airline they will go where incentives are offered and demand exists. GLA management haven’t been too successful in recent times at even holding on to routes, never mind attracting new carriers.

[willy wombat]

This thread has been quite sensible recently. Let’s not be children and revert to the old EDI vs GLA childishness.

[A350Saltire]

This thread has been quite sensible recently. Let’s not be children and revert to the old EDI vs GLA childishness.

It certainly wasn’t intended to be and apologies if it appeared like that. It is true that there have been suggestions that B6 were interested in serving GLA is it not? That is why I’m certain it’s a Canadian route or AA. Having said that I’m not going to lie I’d love to see B6 at EDI.

[Planeraz]

Are u sure it was DUB? They have already restarted all DUB routes. They did operate SNN PHL which was cancelled for S 22 because of the 787 delays as well like EDI.

AA recently dropped DFW-DUB which was served by a 787. They also dropped PHL-Dubrovnik. The bigger picture should become clearer when they announce S23 routes.

[AVGEEK7812]

AA recently dropped DFW-DUB which was served by a 787. They also dropped PHL-Dubrovnik. The bigger picture should become clearer when they announce S23 routes.

Not to drift away from EDI, but DUB DFW is a seasonal route that operated this year and is on sale for S23. So there was no issue there with this route and delayed 787. A lot of routes would have finished for the winter.

[willy wombat]

Personally I’d be surprised to see B6 at GLA or EDI next year. The current exchange rates mean it’s very much an inbound market in Scotland which would favour EDI but I can’t help but feel that with current and announced routes EDI is getting saturated. For the same reasons I think VS will struggle on MCO next year but I’d be happy to be proved wrong on either or both counts.

[Planeraz]

Qatar - Xmas 22

QR in process of updating operating aircraft schedules. Although subject to further change, the planned 787 for a number of dates in December has been replaced with a larger capacity 359 and a couple of 351’s in the last week before Xmas. I assume demand must be high.

[Planeraz]

EDI - Sept 2022

Some approx LF stats for September.

QR - Doha 96%
DL - BOS 96%
DL - JFK 97%
UA - EWR 97%
UA - IAD 92%
UA - ORD 96%
AC - YYZ 95%
WS - YYZ 94%
VS - MCO 88%

[gham89]

Those are excellent loads. Promising for future long hauls.

[Planeraz]

An upbeat message from the EDI CEO. He makes reference to a spectacular S22 season, primarily with international routes. The LF’s back this up. Also drops hints about new carriers coming in and the airports objective to grow its international routes portfolio.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/298921/video-edinburgh-airport-ceo-gordon-dewar/

[tictack67]

An upbeat message from the EDI CEO. He makes reference to a spectacular S22 season, primarily with international routes. The LF’s back this up. Also drops hints about new carriers coming in and the airports objective to grow its international routes portfolio.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/298921/video-edinburgh-airport-ceo-gordon-dewar/

He's confirmed Atlanta with Delta is back. B767-300 Brilliant news

[CraigJay]

Westjet planning to start calgary next summer.
icelandair also planning to start Keflavik.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Ok I'll bite. Is that Icelandair in addition to, or taking from, GLA?
WestJet YYC isn't that unlikely as they have a load of B789s and they're all now having to be filled out of Calgary as they've been pulled from YYZ.

[CraigJay]

For icelandair I have no idea if that’s them leaving glasgow.
westjet had actually planned to increase Toronto next year, they’ve applied for more slots so we’ll see what transpires.

[Planeraz]

Icelandair carried 7242 from Glasgow in peak summer (July) this year with a daily service on a 752. EZY from EDI carried 2600 on a 4 x weekly A319/20. EZY in S23 is reducing frequency to 2 x weekly. Would these totals justify Icelandair serving both GLA and EDI?

[Planeraz]

For icelandair I have no idea if that’s them leaving glasgow.
westjet had actually planned to increase Toronto next year, they’ve applied for more slots so we’ll see what transpires.

Westjet appear to be updating schedules for EDI-YYZ. New dates being loaded today. Not complete by the look of things. 4th weekly flight bookable in July.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

It's the B789s that are exclusively Calgary based, the B737 transatlantic program may still be in flux? TBC?

[Planeraz]

S23

slots/initial planned operations. All subject to change.

New

Icelandair - Keflavik
DL - ATL
WS - Calgary
Freebird - Dalaman
South Wind Airlines - Antalya

Resumption

Scandanavian - Copenhagen.

Changes

Qatar - seats/slots is doubled which would suggest a double daily service.
WS - YYZ increased frequency
United - increased seats (likely to be the return of full season on ORD route)
AC - YYZ increased seats. Already confirmed increase to daily.
TK - IST increased seats. Larger aircraft on certain days or double or certain days.
VS - MCO decrease on route.
Wizz - reduced seats on Budapest and Gdańsk.
EK - Slots retained for S23. Appears to be 5 x weekly.
AA - PHL cancelled as per 2022.

[inOban]

pre-covid easyjet flew twice a week in summer but up to 5 times a week in winter. But there was also WOW...

[VickersVicount]

Barring peak summer, that is a lot of TA capacity to fill right there if that all comes … TK seems to do its job well to UK. Not a carrier I would ordinarily rush to use myself however and would be interesting if NCL also got a service.
Wonder how significant the VS further reductions is? The last few peak month loads were reasonable.
Think i’d be surprised to see FI to KEF in 23, didn't they just announce their summer expansion/new routes eg PRG ?
Its not like EK to faff about, QR maybe want to re-establish their domain with some double daily.

[Plane mad 134]

The United increase in seats is the B764 returning on IAD. WestJet have got slots for 7x weekly YYC on B789/7x weekly YYZ on B38M. Icelandair is 7x weekly slots on B752. Turkish have 10x weekly slots on A321N.

Interestingly despite the later start, Virgin to Orlando is showing an increase in seats on the flights that will operate, appears to be an A35K in the leisure config.

[AircraftOperations]

The United increase in seats is the B764 returning on IAD. WestJet have got slots for 7x weekly YYC on B789/7x weekly YYZ on B38M. Icelandair is 7x weekly slots on B752. Turkish have 10x weekly slots on A321N.

Interestingly despite the later start, Virgin to Orlando is showing an increase in seats on the flights that will operate, appears to be an A35K in the leisure config.

Are there any payload restrictions on the B38M EDI-YYZ? That's quite a stretch for it, particularly westbound.

[VickersVicount]

Are there any payload restrictions on the B38M EDI-YYZ? That's quite a stretch for it, particularly westbound.
Range can be almost 4000nm so well within reach esp with a lower density layout such as AC. Some max flights are >8hrs nowadays

[tapportugal]

Hi there, does anyone know if Wizz are cancelling the WAW route? I can see on the S23 slots/initial planned operations that they are reducing the number of frequencies and these flights aren't on sale on their website even though all the other routes are. However on the ACL website is not coming up as cancelled.

[Planeraz]

Norwegian S23

EDI-CPH increased from 6 to 8 weekly. Double on Thursday and Sunday.

[Planeraz]

Route Resumption S23

Iberia Express
EDI-MAD
Summer seasonal - 2 x weekly Thursday & Sunday

Awful timings.

I2 3690 MAD 0525-0815 EDI
I2 3691 EDI 0855-1155 MAD

Credit Sean M

[Sk1schoolsam]

Norwegian S23

EDI-CPH increased from 6 to 8 weekly. Double on Thursday and Sunday.

Oslo also increased according to Areoroutes

Frankfurt up to 21 weekly (3 daily) all NS23 too, expanding the overnight stop early departure.

[tartan 201]

Edinburgh exploring US customs and immigration pre-clearance:
https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2022/11/edinburgh-airport-plans-us-pre-clearance-flights/amp/

[Planeraz]

Edinburgh exploring US customs and immigration pre-clearance:
https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2022/11/edinburgh-airport-plans-us-pre-clearance-flights/amp/

EDI was in a short list a few years ago for this. Where would the airport set up this area? Dublin have a separate terminal tier only for US flights. They also have a far bigger portfolio of year round American services. EDI as we know only have UA daily year round and DL 4/5 times per week to JFK off-peak.

[CabinCrewe]

There are huge cost and legal implications which will ultimately turn out to be prohibitive. Thats why studies failed last time. LHR considered the investment and logistics albeit on a much bigger scale and shied away.
Doubt for peak Jun to Sept at EDI this is in any way credible. DUB/SNN are historical legacy and now hard to withdraw, if was to be a new thing today, no way DUB/SNN would now have it.

[BA318]

There are huge cost and legal implications which will ultimately turn out to be prohibitive. Thats why studies failed last time. LHR considered the investment and logistics albeit on a much bigger scale and shied away.
Doubt for peak Jun to Sept at EDI this is in any way credible. DUB/SNN are historical legacy and now hard to withdraw, if was to be a new thing today, no way DUB/SNN would now have it.

Legally I don’t see why it wouldn’t be possible. We’ve had French border clearance in UK for years at the Channel Tunnel so it must be possible. Cost wise maybe it’s not worth it but it might also attract more traffic. Some places that have it have limited hours so it’s possible it could be in place with only open at relevant hours to cut the operating costs.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Legally I don’t see why it wouldn’t be possible. We’ve had French border clearance in UK for years at the Channel Tunnel so it must be possible. Cost wise maybe it’s not worth it but it might also attract more traffic. Some places that have it have limited hours so it’s possible it could be in place with only open at relevant hours to cut the operating costs.

looking objectively at the article it is clear that there are looking at viability in terms of increasing TATL passengers and freight.
I agree it might be thin in the winter months (might only work during May- Oct initially) but growth of routes and traffic is what they are after
Would the current owners invest in the necessary Infrastructure to make this possible??

[Planeraz]

looking objectively at the article it is clear that there are looking at viability in terms of increasing TATL passengers and freight.
I agree it might be thin in the winter months (might only work during May- Oct initially) but growth of routes and traffic is what they are after
Would the current owners invest in the necessary Infrastructure to make this possible??

I think you are correct. Growth in routes, increase pax numbers and freight is the objective. I can’t really see how the current terminal set-up could accommodate a separate secured area with US TSA facilities and only for US flights. Perhaps the only option would be to use the area that leads to gates 1-4. The BA lounge would have to go along with the other aspire lounge. Would 4 gates with bridges be big enough? I assume 4 gates can accommodate 4 x wide bodies and/or a 752 at the same time?

[VickersVicount]

and what will the US Border staff do for 6+ months of the year in the depths of winter whilst still being funded by Edinburgh Airport? There has been large seasonal summer growth rebound but virtually no winter TA growth.. Someone would need to outlay on a hope it would work and encouraging year round growth.
Sounds nice but fanciful.

[SWBKCB]

And how does passengers and freight work? Surely they are completely different - processes, depts involved, etc? What happens in DUB/SNN?

[Asturias56]

"and what will the US Border staff do for 6+ months of the year in the depths of winter"

Go home?

[Sk1schoolsam]

And how does passengers and freight work? Surely they are completely different - processes, depts involved, etc? What happens in DUB/SNN?

It would be interesting to understand how it all works at SNN as I suspect this would be closest to any proposed operation at EDI based on a supposition that SNN has a more seasonal traffic flow like EDI (DUB being stronger all year round).
I do recall the US Border Control hours being reduced/ limited highlighted by the fact BA had to cut/ retime their (ultimately I’ll fated even before COVID) flights from LCY to JFK which used SNN as a refuel and border clearance point.

At a time the airport is reported to be up for sale, this might just be a marketing ploy, as I can’t see the current owners investing significantly in new or rearranged infrastructure to make this possible let alone the costs charged by the US government.

Being optimistic I hope I am wrong as it would be attractive to airlines, passengers and exporters.

[EGPO]

What happened to the plans, that were floated a long while ago now, relating to a second runway and a new or extended terminal ? Reading all this about the US operations, reminded me of the plan .
After all it does seem that Edinburgh, seems to attract far more custom , despite Glasgow having more land and better connections .
Also and forgive my lack of knowledge, but if customs clearence for the US is done at EDI, what happens to Shannon?.

[VickersVicount]

Glasgow having more land and better connections .
Not sure either of those is especially true.
Doubt EDI having pre-clearance would have any bearing on a different countries facility. Its historically been in place since it was a stopover/ military transit. If they are happy to continue to pay for it and the staffing and facilities are already there why would they change it. Flights would not be transferring from SNN to EDI :confused:

[gham89]

I think you are correct. Growth in routes, increase pax numbers and freight is the objective. I can’t really see how the current terminal set-up could accommodate a separate secured area with US TSA facilities and only for US flights. Perhaps the only option would be to use the area that leads to gates 1-4. The BA lounge would have to go along with the other aspire lounge. Would 4 gates with bridges be big enough? I assume 4 gates can accommodate 4 x wide bodies and/or a 752 at the same time?

Looking at the charts, only stands 2-4(A) are code E rated, so there may occasionally be an issue but 757s and 767s would be fine to use 1.

There does in theory look to be space to convert 1 to a 1/1A, so it may be possible as part of an upgrade.

[Breathe]

This flight sounds like my worst nightmare! :eek: Given the footage from the video, I'm surprised the flight wasn't diverted or the police weren't at Ibiza to deal with some of them.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-ryanair-passengers-terrified-after-25627303

A couple were left terrified on a flight from Edinburgh to Ibiza after chaos erupted onboard with a group of '70-strong' passengers "swigging vodka and partying" in the aisle.

The pair have hit out at Ryanair for failing to control the rowdy group who reportedly left fellow passengers cowering in their seats. They said that after looking forward to a relaxing break at the end of September, they were subjected to three hours of "horrific" travel hell.

The duo, from North Lanarkshire, recorded video footage during the flight which shows passengers partying in the aisle as they blasted music and downed bottles of spirits. The woman, speaking anonymously to the Record, told how her husband has a heart condition and on his way back from the toilet, he was 'accosted' by a boozed-up youth who hit his hand before making a rude gesture.

Other passengers were allegedly subjected to verbal abuse and harassment by members of the '70-strong group' with plane staff unable to keep a lid on their antics. After returning from their holiday, a formal complaint was made to the airline over the incident but they were left unhappy once again after receiving a 'copy and paste' reply on November 26.

The couple says the reply "took no responsibility and gave no assurances that it wouldn't happen again."

The 55-year-old mum said: "The response from Ryanair was a joke. I didn't expect any else though to be honest. They've got you there because it's cheap flights but even though it's a bargain, you shouldn't have to go through that. Passenger safety comes first.

"There was no control over that plane at all. It was horrific from the minute we got on. There were about 70 of them who all came from the same area. They had a big black speaker at the highest volume you could get which was blaring for three hours.

"They were banging on the roof, taking their tops off, and opening their drink that they had bought at duty free. The only time Ryanair came near them was to serve them more drink. I didn't even want to go to the toilet because they were getting drunker and drunker.

"My husband went to the bathroom and on his way back, this guy hit my husband's hand as if to do a high five but then gave him the fingers. The other passengers were getting really annoyed at this behaviour and it could have erupted into a full-blown war."

The mum added that a fellow passenger was forced to shove a young man out of her way after he refused to leave her alone. To add fuel to the fire, she said bad weather on the Balearic Island made for a bumpy landing.

The stressed traveller added: "When we went to land, there was a storm which was bad enough. The air hostess was shouting over the speaker to sit down or the plane wasn't going to land because they were all still standing up.

"There were no police waiting for them at the airport. I understand that they were happy and excited about going on their holiday. I've flown to Ibiza for the last 16 years to the same wee place. I've seen a bit of partying on the flights before but nothing like this.

"It could have been an absolute riot because they were banging into people, shouting in people's faces. There could have been a war on that plane.

"People were scared to go to the toilet but they were scared they were going to get head-butted or hit with a bottle of Grey Goose that was flying about that they had bought at duty-free.

"It was a horrible experience. I get that you've got to expect a bit of partying and I understand that. But my husband and I have had a tough year with lots of sad things happening so we thought we'd go away and chill out.

"We got off the flight and were like 'Oh my God, we need a drink'. I've got a boy at 22. If I thought he was behaving like that on a plane with children and a mixed age group, I would be so embarrassed about it because it was horrific."

The couple have vowed never to fly with Ryanair again after they took a month to reply to their complaint and simply apologised for "any inconvenience caused".

A spokesperson for Ryanair said: "A group of passengers on this flight from Edinburgh to Ibiza became disruptive mid-flight.

"To diffuse the situation and minimise any disruption to passengers, crew made several announcements throughout the flight and refused to serve more than two alcoholic drinks to each passenger.

"Passengers ceased their disruptive behaviour before landing safely in Ibiza."

[SWBKCB]

So bad it's taken over two months to be reported?

[edi_local]

Just strengthens the case against not selling alcohol in airports to certain passengers. Extend that to duty free as its clear this lot were illegally drinking thier own supply as they wouldn't have got that through security.

Yes it's discriminatory, but surely this flight, along with dozens of other examples of such behaviour on holiday resort bound flights show that it's simply a bad combination. No one has the absolute right to alcohol. And no one has the right to act this way on a plane. This association with binge drinking and flying needs to be harshly tackled in the UK. Sadly the profits of airport weatherspoons and World duty free trump all.

All of that aside. The plane should have diverted or had police on arrival. But what are any foreign police going to do with 70 odd pissed up UK youths? Maybe it should have simply returned to EDI and left them all at home and let local police deal with them.

[SealinkBF]

If ScotRail can ban alcohol on all their trains...

[SWBKCB]

How are you going to identify "certain passengers"? Go you mean certain routes/flights? How do you do this?

[Planeraz]

The alcohol ban on Scotrail is a political stunt by Sturgeon. State owned and controlled. She has zero clout when it comes to what privately owned airlines can or cannot do.

[SWBKCB]

It's quite common for alcohol to be banned on main line trains before/after major football games in England, so not just a Scottish thing. The original comment was about sales at airports.

I've always thought selling inflammable liquids in glass containers to take on board aircraft was an odd idea,

[Sk1schoolsam]

The alcohol ban on Scotrail is a political stunt by Sturgeon. State owned and controlled. She has zero clout when it comes to what privately owned airlines can or cannot do.

A ban that is not enforced at all… plenty of drinking on the trains over the rugby weekends. Total political sham.
Yea airlines and airports can do more to stop excessive drinking but let’s not get silly and plan to stop the sale of alcohol altogether.

[Asturias56]

That is clearly the answer tho - no drinking airside or aloft

[SWBKCB]

That is clearly the answer tho - no drinking airside or aloft

I'll have ice with mine - from when hell freezes over....

[Planeraz]

SunExpress

New Route S23

EDI-Izmir

1 x flight weekly. Start date 29th August 2023.

Strange start date, The summer season in Scotland will be all but over by then. This start date could change?

credit SeanM

[Planeraz]

Westjet S23

Westjet have removed from sale GLA-YYZ. EDI-YYZ remains on sale but at crazy high prices. Been like this for weeks now. Double the price of AC flights. I suspect we may be about to find out what their plans are for EDI. The slots suggest daily to YYZ and a much rumoured daily to Calgary on a 787.