Edinburgh-4

[VickersVicount]

3 carriers including an existing low cost? Interesting to see how that pans out.

[tictack67]

3 carriers including an existing low cost? Interesting to see how that pans out.
Been done before, good loads on Scandi routes.

Copenhagen pre- pandemic for example was served by Easyjet, Ryanair, Sas and Norwegian.

Stockholm had multiple carriers too

[tartan 201]

Two interesting building warrant applications:

1. To create a lounge for Plaza Premium:
https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/scottishBuildingWarrantDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=R71C2KEWH1000

https://www.plazapremiumlounge.com/en-uk

2. Upgrade to the Signature FBO, possibly to include some form of 'private check-in and chauffeur to aircraft steps' service.

https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/scottishBuildingWarrantDetails.do?activeTab=details&keyVal=R1BP83EWJGY00

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/33939785-post9.html

[Link Kilo]

Delta to JFK and BOS
Delta have now announced an increase to all of their transatlantic services, including Edinburgh Airport.
JFK and Boston going daily on B767 each
Timings suggest BOS Inbound aircraft will operate outbound JFK and vice versa

I was just wondering where you got this info from? The Delta website shows JFK daily on a 763, but BOS only five-weekly (also a 763).

[CabinCrewe]

Daily 763 to BOS this summer seems ambitious with a lot of seats, but guessing they have nothing smaller.

[tictack67]

Daily 763 to BOS this summer seems ambitious with a lot of seats, but guessing they have nothing smaller.

Delta's new config for B767 is 226, their 757-200 was 199

​​​​​​You make it sound like they are putting on an A380.

For comparison, Ryanair max 8 is 197

[Link Kilo]

Two more FR based aircraft, taking base to 10 overall (five of which will be -8200s):

https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/auto-draft-16/?market=en

[Planeraz]

A sign of things to come from American Airlines in the medium to long term. No real surprise tbh. Hopefully an opportunity for EDI to work towards year round service to PHL, ORD or CLT perhaps.



https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/297596/american-eyes-new-secondary-european-markets/

[Planeraz]

SAS have dropped EDI - Copenhagen. Too much competition on this route? Oslo remains for now.

[tictack67]

SAS have dropped EDI - Copenhagen. Too much competition on this route? Oslo remains for now.

I think so, they can't compete with Norwegian, Ryanair and Easyjet. As well as Ryanair to Billund and FR and easy to Hamburg (for South Denmark with great trains) Denmark well served.

CPH is Sas' big connection hub for Scandinavia, with direct flights now to Helsinki, Bergen, Stavanger, Gothenburg from Edinburgh there's not so much connection traffic. Latvia, Lithuthania and Estonia all have direct Edi flights too

SAS will compete with Norwegian and FlyR on Oslo and Norwegian in Stockholm.

[Link Kilo]

SAS have dropped EDI - Copenhagen. Too much competition on this route? Oslo remains for now.

If you're right, why is it still on sale?

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x1713/img_20220218_095544_07ed9f5425cf72bd14c058fdb30c685403dc89ef .jpg

[ld0595]

A sign of things to come from American Airlines in the medium to long term. No real surprise tbh. Hopefully an opportunity for EDI to work towards year round service to PHL, ORD or CLT perhaps.



https://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/297596/american-eyes-new-secondary-european-markets/

Hope so. I'm sure AA could easily fill a 4x weekly service to PHL even during the quieter winter months. The summer service was popular so I hope this returns sooner rather than later at the very least.

[Planeraz]

it may appear as available for now. It can take a few days for system adjustments to filter through.


https://www.sasgroup.net/newsroom/press-releases/2022/sas-presents-traffic-program-for-the-summer-with-120-destinations/

[CabinCrewe]

AA could easily fill a 4x weekly service to PHL even during the quieter winter months.
They’ve never seen fit do so even in the good times. Winter inbound tourism goes off a cliff edge. Always has done. Enough UK AA capacity to funnel through LHR as needed.

Also still only seeing high summer DL BOS as 5/wk… where did the daily theory come from?

[Link Kilo]

Great to see United returning today after almost two years away.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x1085/img_20220305_081314_3c844523a22ffb514949fb92460305729bb52d0a .jpg

[inOban]

Although the return flight seems to be cancelled?

[Planeraz]

Crew rest time. The first scheduled EDI-EWR is tomorrow. Appears to be around 80% full.

[inOban]

Anyone know why KLM have cut the AMS frequency? The nightstopper has gone and today what is now the first service (9.15) has been cancelled as well

[Sk1schoolsam]

Anyone know why KLM have cut the AMS frequency? The nightstopper has gone and today what is now the first service (9.15) has been cancelled as well

Looking at the schedule it’s just a temporary reduction for a few weeks hopefully 🙏

[edinv]

Just had an email from AC changing acft type on a booked flt in Oct 22 EDI/YYZ from a 737Max to a Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner.

[Breathe]

BA Cityflyer have announced summer seasonal flights to Jersey and Guernsey.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2022/03/10/british-airways-adds-three-routes-from-southampton-and-edinburgh-for-summer-2022/Edinburgh-Guernsey

(operates on Saturdays from June 18 to September 24, 2022)

BA2343 departs Edinburgh at 1045, arriving into Guernsey at 1215
BA2342 departs Guernsey at 1300, arriving into Edinburgh at 1430

Edinburgh-Jersey (operates on Saturday from June 18 to September 24, 2022)

BA2349 departs Edinburgh at 1545, arriving into Jersey at 1715
BA2348 departs Jersey at 1800, arriving into Edinburgh at 1930

[Breathe]

Just had an email from AC changing acft type on a booked flt in Oct 22 EDI/YYZ from a 737Max to a Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner.
That's quite an upgrade from a 737!

[CraigJay]

Air Canada using the 787 for the whole summer season.

[chaps1954]

Nothing between 737 and 787 same at Manchester except gone to an A330 and starting a month earlier so would guess that sales are going well

[A350Saltire]

Great news re the AC 787. You are right sales must be decent.

Westjet will have alot to do to compete.

[CabinCrewe]

No longer daily. Monday flight dropped and down to 4 weekly from end of September.

[YVRscot]

Great news re the AC 787. You are right sales must be decent.

Westjet will have alot to do to compete.
​​​​​​
Air Canada has certainly more brand recognition in Scotland but WestJet has a strong reputation here in Canada as the smaller airline that "tries harder". They seem to be more flexible with their pricing and have a huge following for their discounted companion ticket for WestJet credit card holders. Their onboard service is undoubtedly friendlier than AC but I must admit that personally I'd take a 787 over a 737 Max every time!

[Planeraz]

Finnair

Not officially confirmed as yet but Finnair expected to change EDI-HEL from year round to a further reduced summer seasonal service. Being reported by others that route may well be dropped completely at end of October 22.

[inOban]

How much of their traffic is/was travelling to the Far East?

[Planeraz]

Finnair in normal times always promoted the EDI route and others from the UK as the easiest connection to the Far East and beyond via Helsinki. With this decision it would appear that current load factors and forward bookings are disappointing. Covid, clearly continues to bite and affect confidence. Qatar, hopefully will be able to ride out the market uncertainty and in time grow again from EDI as the Australian and NZ markets in particular recover and open up further,

[Seljuk22]

Qatar Airways to increase Doha to daily from 2nd June
https://www.qatarairways.com/en/press-releases/2022/March/Qatar-Airways-to-Resume-Flights-to-London-Gatwick.html?activeTag=Press-releases

[Planeraz]

United

Not a good week or so for United re reliability. 2 x EDI-EWR flights went tech and cancelled. Both 752’s were +20 years old. Both flights were booked full which is great news for the route but not for the pax plans. They have been and continue to be real work horses for United. You have to wonder how much longer they can go on for? Does anyone know what United have planned to replace them and the timescale? With all United EDI routes currently served with 752’s, it will be interesting to see what they have planned in the short to medium term.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

They have ordered A321NXs as a replacement. Having said that, some of the B767-300ER fleet are even older but are well looked after and used on core long haul, may be bad luck?

[Planeraz]

Turkish S22 EDI-IST

TK increasing previously planned summer months - 5 x weekly to daily from 18th June. Good news.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Turkish S22 EDI-IST

TK increasing previously planned summer months - 5 x weekly to daily from 18th June. Good news.

Timetable is confusing with the off set arrival / departure time on different days ….going to be busy on a Thursday during summer with 3 Turkish flights from EDI. Dalaman and Antalya just 5 mins apart.

[Planeraz]

Agree. Similar schedule strategy to Qatar. Earlier then later departure times on certain days. It’s also very likely they are increasing to daily to mirror and compete with Qatar’s resumption of daily service from June. If the reported pent up demand materialises, I wonder if a certain other Middle Eastern carrier may make a comeback at EDI?

[wesleyscott]

Nice to see Air Canada brining the Dreamliner to Edinburgh for summer. Hope they fill it!

[CabinCrewe]

Nice to see Air Canada brining the Dreamliner to Edinburgh for summer. Hope they fill it!
Its only 4 more seats in premium than original 737 planned, but a shed load if cheap seats up the back -and thats before WestJet wades in…

[tictack67]

Its only 4 more seats in premium than original 737 planned, but a shed load if cheap seats up the back -and thats before WestJet wades in…

Still it's great to see, especially in these troubled times for aviation.

Let's be glad for any wins, however small.

[Sk1schoolsam]

I see that EDI had a bit over 514k passengers in Feb this year, I wonder how far back we need to go to find and equivalent Feb figures to this? Airport has felt like it’s getting busier over the past few weeks and more and more retail are reopening which is good too see. Excited to see with a fair number of new routes coming on soon how if the positive trend continues.

[Planeraz]

Virgin

EDI-MCO route starts tomorrow. The inbound from Orlando this evening looks very quiet. Less than a third full. The first outbound tomorrow however is very heavily booked. Full in upper class and only a few seats open in premium and economy. Promising start for the route.

[willy wombat]

In fairness, not really a new route so you would expect decent loads (it’s just VS’s Central Scotland to MCO route which has moved from GLA to EDI).

[A350Saltire]

In fairness, not really a new route so you would expect decent loads (it’s just VS’s Central Scotland to MCO route which has moved from GLA to EDI).

In fairness I’d suggest decent loads on this kind of route after the pandemic and restrictions we’ve just had are indeed impressive. Although I believe UA are also extremely busy into EDI at the moment from EWR before ORD and IAD restart so maybe transatlantic has recovered quicker than expected.

It’s definitely great to hear.

[Planeraz]

United S22

EDI-ORD

Route resumption pushed back to 1st July from ORD.

EDI-IAD

Resumes as planned from May. Aircraft upgraded to 764 for May and June. 752 from July.

ORD route I’m guessing has poor forward bookings in early summer months or United have issues with aircraft availability.

Interesting development.

[inOban]

EDI are warning of likely security etc delays as passenger numbers triple this summer.

[nighthawk117]

United S22

EDI-ORD

Route resumption pushed back to 1st July from ORD.

EDI-IAD

Resumes as planned from May. Aircraft upgraded to 764 for May and June. 752 from July.

ORD route I’m guessing has poor forward bookings in early summer months or United have issues with aircraft availability.

Interesting development.

The fact theyve upgraded IAD to a 764 suggests aircraft availability - cancel the ORD and rebook people on to IAD. I dont think its a coincidence it drops to a 757 when the ORD service starts,

[C172Navigator]

EDI are warning of likely security etc delays as passenger numbers triple this summer.

You mean because they are 80 staff short.

[Planeraz]

United

More issues with United 752s. Last nights EWR-EDI went tech. Replaced with a 764. Due in to EDI this morning almost 3 hours late. One for the spotters though.

[SWBKCB]

You mean because they are 80 staff short.

I believe Swissport are trying to pull in staff from other stations...

[Saabandthecity]

I believe Swissport are trying to pull in staff from other stations...

They certainly are, however, when every other station is short staffed it just makes the problems worse.

Doesn't help that training new staff is taking a long time along with the security checks for passes.

[anothertyke]

I see that EDI had a bit over 514k passengers in Feb this year, I wonder how far back we need to go to find and equivalent Feb figures to this? Airport has felt like it’s getting busier over the past few weeks and more and more retail are reopening which is good too see. Excited to see with a fair number of new routes coming on soon how if the positive trend continues.

935k in Feb 2020 ; 528k in Feb 2003. So, Feb was 55% of pre-Covid traffic. My finger in the air for all regional airports says 90% of pre-Covid traffic this summer quarter, maybe lower for the more business orientated ones.

[Planeraz]

Iberia

iberia operating a MAD-EDI turn today. Due in to EDI at 10:01. Is this a one off charter? They chopped the route last year and it doesn’t appear bookable in the weeks ahead.

[tictack67]

Iberia

iberia operating a MAD-EDI turn today. Due in to EDI at 10:01. Is this a one off charter? They chopped the route last year and it doesn’t appear bookable in the weeks ahead.

I suspect this is a one off charter, maybe for School kids. This Flight number and same aircraft operated MAD-INV on 29/3

Still Ryanair and Easy serving Madrid though

[A350Saltire]

EasyJet add Corfu and Kefalonia for summer 2022 (both 2 per week)

Delta will operate an A330-300 on the JFK route for one week to coincide with the Open Golf at St Andrews.

[Sk1schoolsam]

EasyJet add Corfu and Kefalonia for summer 2022 (both 2 per week)

Delta will operate an A330-300 on the JFK route for one week to coincide with the Open Golf at St Andrews.

Wonder if JFK will return to year round or remain seasonal?

Surprised United have not considered upsizing the frame used on the Newark route during the same period. Especially since there is only one daily flight to Scotland from Newark now. Maybe they don’t have the fleet or the crews.

Are there daily loads health across both classes?

[Link Kilo]

Wonder if JFK will return to year round or remain seasonal?


What's on sale on the Delta website?

[Planeraz]

What's on sale on the Delta website?
Currently 5 x weekly in October, increasing to daily from 1st November. Aircraft also upgraded from November. Newer cabin and more premium heavy 763 with premium select. Having taken a look at peak summer dates and even into September, both JFK and BOS appear to be very solidly booked. Encouraging to see BOS appearing to be popular considering how close both Delta hubs are to each other.

United EDI-EWR has been performing incredibly well. By rough calculation, load factors since resumption sit around 93%. Others have suggested or wondered why they didn’t upgrade to a larger aircraft. United, apparently have aircraft availability issues. The ORD route resumption has already been pushed back to July. EDI-IAD route in May and June operating on a 764.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

You kinda wonder if EDI isn't a B777-200 candidate once the PW birds are flying again? Possibly one of the domestic configured aircraft even? Unless there's a strong demand for Polaris, it would allow a high volume seasonal lift with a sensible sized business cabin. The United B764 is C39Y203 giving 242 total whereas the B77A is C28Y336 giving 364 in total. American used to do this with the B767 into GLA/MAN, offering US domestic F as a business offering.

[Sk1schoolsam]

You kinda wonder if EDI isn't a B777-200 candidate once the PW birds are flying again? Possibly one of the domestic configured aircraft even? Unless there's a strong demand for Polaris, it would allow a high volume seasonal lift with a sensible sized business cabin. The United B764 is C39Y203 giving 242 total whereas the B77A is C28Y336 giving 364 in total. American used to do this with the B767 into GLA/MAN, offering US domestic F as a business offering.

”PW Birds”??

[ib26uk]

Pratt & Whitney

[VickersVicount]

Pratt & Whitney
Regardless of engines, it won’t be happening (bold print emphasising or not). Outwith a short term rebound boost, even in good pre-covid times the 757’s rarely ran full.
You’ve now got Virgin and WS in the mix taking transatlantic connections.
Apart from UA, American about to start culling their regional Euro summer routes… Make of that what you will.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

They did run full in summer peak, the clue being they operated three flights per day. My point being the use of one larger frame would be an efficient consolidation, am not suggesting a growth path here. Scotland has huge seasonal peaks and troughs to the US and this may be one way of managing this. Virgin have been in market for years, they just moved from one end of the M8 to the other, and Westjet aren't in the same league in getting to the US.

[tictack67]

Regardless of engines, it won’t be happening (bold print emphasising or not). Outwith a short term rebound boost, even in good pre-covid times the 757’s rarely ran full.
You’ve now got Virgin and WS in the mix taking transatlantic connections.
Apart from UA, American about to start culling their regional Euro summer routes… Make of that what you will.

Don't be so miserable. Times gone by I may have agreed with you, when the Viscounts where flying to EDI from JER/GCI

The developments an opportunites have been amazing. VS to Orlando, A daily Toronto with (AC/WS) never thought I'd see flights to Chigago, Washington, Boston let alone a New York.
let alone direct legacy carriers to BRU, CDG,FRA,AMS,HEL,CPH,OSL,ARN. And that's before the far East with Qatar and Turkish airlines.

I think some people are always going to be a glass is always empty, and that's unfortunate.

[Sk1schoolsam]

You kinda wonder if EDI isn't a B777-200 candidate once the PW birds are flying again? Possibly one of the domestic configured aircraft even? Unless there's a strong demand for Polaris, it would allow a high volume seasonal lift with a sensible sized business cabin. The United B764 is C39Y203 giving 242 total whereas the B77A is C28Y336 giving 364 in total. American used to do this with the B767 into GLA/MAN, offering US domestic F as a business offering.

I would have thought that 76A or 76C (or at a push. 787-8 would fit any upgrades airframe better on this route providing reasonable additional seats in all classes, without being too premium heavy. But I guess they are struggling for frames and crews still.
Don’t know if the demand is there for a Daily 777- would be quite a jump up to fill even in peak summer.
If my memory serves me right did they not once go double daily with the same size 757 frame instead favouring additional frequency over increased capacity? Don’t see this happening again anytime soon…..

[nighthawk117]

There are not many destinations that can be served in Europe by the 757. As long as they are in the fleet, they'll be used to the UK/Ireland to free up larger aircraft for longer routes that the 757 cannot serve.

[Planeraz]

United are gradually phasing out their 752 & 753 and 767. A321XLR is the reported replacement. They will have to make a decision how to retain routes or possibly drop some while the new aircraft currently on order enter service. I wouldn’t be surprised to see EDI-ORD dropped in the interim period. With EWR performing well, you’d expect them to ramp up the battle with Delta for the NYC market, particularly as they are scheduled to return to daily in November with a more premium heavy 763, offering premium select. The question is, what aircraft type they will use?

[nighthawk117]

United are gradually phasing out their 752 & 753 and 767. A321XLR is the reported replacement.

Gradually. They'll keep enough 757s around to serve the UK market until the A321s arrive.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Gradually. They'll keep enough 757s around to serve the UK market until the A321s arrive.
That would be EDI only now, changed days as LHR doesn't see the B757 and BFS,BRS,BHX,STN and MAN are all (long) gone now. DUB still seems to see the B757 in amongst the bigger aircraft.

[tictack67]

That would be EDI only now, changed days as LHR doesn't see the B757 and BFS,BRS,BHX,STN and MAN are all (long) gone now. DUB still seems to see the B757 in amongst the bigger aircraft.

​​​​​​Lisbon, and LHR (UA122) are served daily on B757 from Washington.

From Newark, Porto gets a B757 daily

[GoEDI]

I believe EDI is the only remaining year round transatlantic destination that sees B752 service from EWR. I'd of thought they would want to get a Polaris/eco+ kitted out aircraft on the route sooner rather than later as demand returns, particularly with competition on the route from DL. The dispatch reliability of the B752 is far from great as well.

I'm surprised that they're putting the B764 on IAD rather than a widebody on EWR tbh, but I presume that all boils down to aircraft availability.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Regardless of engines, it won’t be happening (bold print emphasising or not). Outwith a short term rebound boost, even in good pre-covid times the 757’s rarely ran full.
You’ve now got Virgin and WS in the mix taking transatlantic connections.
Apart from UA, American about to start culling their regional Euro summer routes… Make of that what you will.

I appreciate your point that pre-covid the daily services to Newark may rarely have ran full; however GLA also had a service at this point too. So overall the Central belt is down to one daily flight to Newark which, for now at least, appears to be doing well but occasionally suffering due to the older airframes having issues.

IMO the VS MCO and WS/AC Toronto flights are a very different summer seasonal market to the Newark flights.
Newark is mainly about onward US connections or NYC so only DL directly competing.

Have you information suggesting that AA will not return to EDI in ‘23?

[tictack67]

Not looked at Edinburgh arrivals for while. Great to see a busy schedule again today, 10 scheduled flights from Germany to Edinburgh. As well as flights from every scandi county between Iceland and Finland and those in-between.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Good Pax number from EDI in April (931,552 pax) which is an encouraging sign of recovery. With more long haul and wide body’s returning then hopefully the recovery will continue.

https://fal.cn/3oty9

[inOban]

Still 25% down on April 2019

[tictack67]

I think these are great numbers considering there was no covid in April 2019 mad the last of the restrictions for life/tourists etc dropped end of April




Still 25% down on April 2019

[inOban]

They are, but there are certain routes which are clearly recovering more slowly, such as the more business-orientated destinations eg Munich.

[Planeraz]

Agree. Not all airports have reported pax numbers for April as yet. Will be very interesting to compare similar sized English airport by pax number - such as BHX. I strongly suspect Scottish airports such as EDI and GLA will recover much slower compared to airports down south. EDI CEO is on record as saying that Sturgeons complete refusal to engage about a safe return to travel hugely damaged the airport and sector more generally. For purely political reasons, only a few weeks ago, her deputy was suggesting that Scots should not travel overseas in 2022 due to the risk of importing variants of the virus. What chance do you have when individuals in power or with influence continue to brief against the travel sector?

[mwm991]

Agree. Not all airports have reported pax numbers for April as yet. Will be very interesting to compare similar sized English airport by pax number - such as BHX. I strongly suspect Scottish airports such as EDI and GLA will recover much slower compared to airports down south. EDI CEO is on record as saying that Sturgeons complete refusal to engage about a safe return to travel hugely damaged the airport and sector more generally. For purely political reasons, only a few weeks ago, her deputy was suggesting that Scots should not travel overseas in 2022 due to the risk of importing variants of the virus. What chance do you have when individuals in power or with influence continue to brief against the travel sector?
Yet Sturgeon is off on her jollies to America next week. Wonder if she's flying commercial or private? She too good to sit with the plebs in coach?

[Link Kilo]

For purely political reasons, only a few weeks ago, her deputy was suggesting that Scots should not travel overseas in 2022 due to the risk of importing variants of the virus.

Can you post a link to this statement please?

[Link Kilo]

Not all airports have reported pax numbers for April as yet. Will be very interesting to compare similar sized English airport by pax number - such as BHX. I strongly suspect Scottish airports such as EDI and GLA will recover much slower compared to airports down south.

There's each airport's March 2022 passenger numbers (those that have reported and leaving aside small airports) as a percentage of their March 2019 passenger numbers.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/733x519/screenshot_2022_05_10_180324_2b9872c8879db2d9258a1f683a8d97b c23fadbaf.jpg

Not sure that data supports your strong suspicion.

[Planeraz]

Lufthansa S23

EDI-MUC increased from 3 x weekly to daily. FRA 2 x daily.

[edi_local]

Yet Sturgeon is off on her jollies to America next week. Wonder if she's flying commercial or private? She too good to sit with the plebs in coach?

When I worked at EDI it was common to see her in the terminal, using commercial flights, like everyone else. Of course she usually had a security guard by her side, but that's only to be expected of any political leader.

[edi_local]

Can you post a link to this statement please?

I have had a look and all I can see when I type in "John Swinney, 2022 foreign travel warning" are articles from May 2021. I also don't recall seeing or hearing any foreign travel warnings since early/mid last year from anyone in the Scottish Government.

[VickersVicount]

Nice to have something veering towards ‘premium’ as the rest of the main departures is far from it and can often be a bit of a zoo during peak months.
https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2022/05/18/plaza-premium-to-open-edinburgh-lounge-in-july/

[Sk1schoolsam]

Nice to have something veering towards ‘premium’ as the rest of the main departures is far from it and can often be a bit of a zoo during peak months.
https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2022/05/18/plaza-premium-to-open-edinburgh-lounge-in-july/

Yes it’s good to see some new investment at the airport after No1 Lounges short stay.

Airport did seam busy this week so surprised that second Aspire lounge has not reopened yet (lack of staff maybe?)

Might try and avoid the mornings with the 5-6 wide body departures 😂

[CabinCrewe]

Wonder why TK retreating swiftly back to just IST? Would have though DLM and AYT would have at least survived a summer. Too much ‘cheap’ competition maybe.

[GrahamK]

Wonder why TK retreating swiftly back to just IST? Would have though DLM and AYT would have at least survived a summer. Too much ‘cheap’ competition maybe.
I do suspect overcapacity here

[Sk1schoolsam]

I do suspect overcapacity here

So does that overcapacity then drop off in September and October as the flights seam to return twice weekly for those two remaining months of the summer season?

[Rutan16]

Is it not that August is NOT peak in Scotland more rather July because of the differing School holiday period ?

[nighthawk117]

Wonder why TK retreating swiftly back to just IST? Would have though DLM and AYT would have at least survived a summer. Too much ‘cheap’ competition maybe.
Can you provide more info on what you are talking about here? Have they announced they are dropping the routes?

[Planeraz]

SunExpress S23

Major expansion planned to/from UK in S23.

Antalya - daily
probable new routes - DLM and Izmir. Expected to be 3 x weekly.

Will Turkish be up for the fight or concentrate on their core route (IST) which continues to perform well?

[Link Kilo]

Can you provide more info on what you are talking about here? Have they announced they are dropping the routes?

They've not announced it to the best of my knowledge - airlines rarely announce such things - but a quick look at the TK website will show you that DLM isn't bookable and AYT (originally launched as twice-weekly) goes down to one-weekly (Saturdays only) from the end of May then doesn't operate at all from Saturday 9th July to 27th August (inclusive). That covers the entire Scottish school holiday period, so it's a bit odd to do that and then resume in September for the final two months of the season. That said, sister airline SunExpress increase their AYT service to three-weekly from the 14th June, so there's still plenty to concern those worried about over-capacity.

The news about AYT going daily with SunExpress in S23 is in the tweet below from Routes 2022 where it seems EDI's marketing team was out in force.

https://twitter.com/routesonline/status/1527564363938385920

https://www.facebook.com/thelaneagency/posts/5045855005521917

[Planeraz]

Virgin W22

Edinburgh-Barbados dropped. No surprise. Will Virgin take a punt at another US destination from EDI next year?

[Breathe]

SunExpress S23

Major expansion planned to/from UK in S23.

Antalya - daily
probable new routes - DLM and Izmir. Expected to be 3 x weekly.

Will Turkish be up for the fight or concentrate on their core route (IST) which continues to perform well?
Why would they be up for having a fight with SunExpress, in which it owns 50% of the airline along with Lufthansa?

[Planeraz]

I wasn’t aware of the tie in. Happy to be informed.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Virgin W22

Edinburgh-Barbados dropped. No surprise. Will Virgin take a punt at another US destination from EDI next year?

Disappointing news but felt they were never fully committed and would have liked them to try a full winter season. Perhaps extend Orlando to all year round or increase the current summer frequency.

[tictack67]

Disappointing news but felt they were never fully committed and would have liked them to try a full winter season. Perhaps extend Orlando to all year round or increase the current summer frequency.

Why do you feel they were not committed?

They offered two Barbados a week and two Orlando at a time of uncertaintyand lockdowns.

They are a business, and if people don't use the service, they should rightly consider their stance and protect their finances.

Question is why it's so much more expensive to fly direct across the Atlantic than go via Europe or London

[willy wombat]

Maybe moving airport wasn’t the smartest thing to do.

[Flightrider]

Disappointing news but felt they were never fully committed and would have liked them to try a full winter season.

I do have to wonder about some of these comments. Anyone launching a new route - especially a longhaul one - is committed otherwise they wouldn’t be doing it. “Cut too soon” or “needed more time to prove itself” are all very well to say when you’re not the one watching the losses rack up in the short term.

[Rutan16]

Why do you feel they were not committed?

They offered two Barbados a week and two Orlando at a time of uncertaintyand lockdowns.

They are a business, and if people don't use the service, they should rightly consider their stance and protect their finances.

Question is why it's so much more expensive to fly direct across the Atlantic than go via Europe or London

Economics 101 especially in the back of the bus/Dreamliner.

The major players from the Golden Triangle in a variety of shades of blue, white, grey, and occasional red accent, operate generally high frequencies on prime routes targeted at squeezing yield and for (convenience demanded) for those in bathchair seats, oft leading to massive over capacity in steerage .

That over capacity is price dumped via a range of consolidators lowering prices for many of those seats in economy and frequently below market rate.
Incidentally also putting pressure on those few flexible carriers margins (much to their delights) .

Whilst those lower frequency services from Manchester and Edinburgh and similar sizes European cities are required ( by bean counters) to maintain the recovery margins. At the same time these will inevitably have fewer corporate contracts for the front end seats ( lower yield) and therefore become exposed and risk rationalisation if the general economy travels south .

Use of the 757 whilst providing those links for some years is now hampered with rapidly rising maintenance costs and compounded by the equally claimed poor service for those up front, and that do travel from the regions.

Result is more of the valuable yield potential generating traffic will shuttle to the various hubs; further weakening those remaining services.
Add mileage bribes you see where I am going with this !

Evidence look at the load factors ( not yield) of some of the Heathrow flights particularly in shoulder and winter season - they are dreadful

Also an example of yield potential collapsing due to weaker demand and the loss of corporate business both freight and self loading is that of American services from Manchester to Philadelphia. The service viability pretty well ended when the pharmaceutical trade from Wilmslow evaporated.

This phenomenon is decades old through the alliances have simply emboldened it further in recent years.

Hence the general reductions on secondary routes and high(er) fare demanded on those that do remain.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I think EDI-BGI was an unlikely punt as they needed to try SOMETHING to get flying again. Moving MCO across to EDI is interesting, but getting to GLA at the moments is a massive pain due to the M8 so EDI continues to win.

[Planeraz]

Delta S22

BOS-EDI 18/7 & EDI-BOS 19/7. Aircraft upgrade to A333. Like JFK aircraft upgrade, I assume their must be big demand from Americans travelling to/from St Andrews for the open.

[nighthawk117]

The United flights have been full almost every day for the past few weeks, so there's plenty of demand.

[Sk1schoolsam]

The United flights have been full almost every day for the past few weeks, so there's plenty of demand.

Great to hear, United still plan to drop back to the 3 x 752s in July when ORD restarts, will be sad to see the 764 go. Just hope they have enough reliable 752’s now 😉

[figgi_gsm]

With Turkish sending their A330-300 on 18th, 25th and 29th, here is how it’s looking for visitors those days:

Sat 18th:
Qatar-DOH: 0650A 0820D (788)
Virgin-MCO: 0720A 1020D (333)
United-EWR: 0805A 0940D (752)
Air Canada-YYZ: 0835A 1015D (788)
Delta-BOS: 0850A Departs 1050 to JFK (763)
Turkish-IST: 0930A 1100D (333)
Delta-JFK: 1010A Departs 1215 to BOS (763)
United-IAD: 1045A 1230D (764)

On the Wed 29th you can also add:

Westjet-YYZ: 0905A 1025D (7M8)
TUI UK-CUN: 1155D (788)
Qatar is an afternoon flight

Nice to see things picking up again.

[Sk1schoolsam]

With Turkish sending their A330-300 on 18th, 25th and 29th, here is how it’s looking for visitors those days:

Sat 18th:
Qatar-DOH: 0650A 0820D (788)
Virgin-MCO: 0720A 1020D (333)
United-EWR: 0805A 0940D (752)
Air Canada-YYZ: 0835A 1015D (788)
Delta-BOS: 0850A Departs 1050 to JFK (763)
Turkish-IST: 0930A 1100D (333)
Delta-JFK: 1010A Departs 1215 to BOS (763)
United-IAD: 1045A 1230D (764)

On the Wed 29th you can also add:

Westjet-YYZ: 0905A 1025D (7M8)
TUI UK-CUN: 1155D (788)
Qatar is an afternoon flight

Nice to see things picking up again.

curious- Does anyone know if EDI has had as many wide body jets in one day than expected over the next few days?

[Asturias56]

"Question is why it's so much more expensive to fly direct across the Atlantic than go via Europe or London"

Direct flights always command a premium - it's very high transatlantic from Heathrow - much more so than out of AMS.

Applies in the other direction as well - often much cheaper (especially in Business) to go Australia - AMS or to CDG and then Eurostar to London

[Link Kilo]

Will be very interesting to compare similar sized English airport by pax number - such as BHX. I strongly suspect Scottish airports such as EDI and GLA will recover much slower compared to airports down south. EDI CEO is on record as saying that Sturgeons complete refusal to engage about a safe return to travel hugely damaged the airport and sector more generally. For purely political reasons, only a few weeks ago, her deputy was suggesting that Scots should not travel overseas in 2022 due to the risk of importing variants of the virus. What chance do you have when individuals in power or with influence continue to brief against the travel sector?

April 2022 as a % of April 2019 passengers numbers for main airports reported to the CAA at the time of posting.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/724x510/screenshot_2022_05_28_151058_b77d806986ef88d1624eb8ddeaaefde b73000025.jpg

[A350Saltire]

Great to hear, United still plan to drop back to the 3 x 752s in July when ORD restarts, will be sad to see the 764 go. Just hope they have enough reliable 752’s now 😉

I’ve heard that the 764 will remain on IAD until August now and that will be alongside the ORD 752 when that route restarts and the EWR 752. Seems it’s pretty busy at the moment.

[Breathe]

I’ve heard that the 764 will remain on IAD until August now and that will be alongside the ORD 752 when that route restarts and the EWR 752. Seems it’s pretty busy at the moment.
That will be a great catch for the spotters given that only 37 of this variant were ever built, so it's pretty rare to spot it in the wild.

[gham89]

With Turkish sending their A330-300 on 18th, 25th and 29th, here is how it’s looking for visitors those days:

Sat 18th:
Qatar-DOH: 0650A 0820D (788)
Virgin-MCO: 0720A 1020D (333)
United-EWR: 0805A 0940D (752)
Air Canada-YYZ: 0835A 1015D (788)
Delta-BOS: 0850A Departs 1050 to JFK (763)
Turkish-IST: 0930A 1100D (333)
Delta-JFK: 1010A Departs 1215 to BOS (763)
United-IAD: 1045A 1230D (764)

On the Wed 29th you can also add:

Westjet-YYZ: 0905A 1025D (7M8)
TUI UK-CUN: 1155D (788)
Qatar is an afternoon flight

Nice to see things picking up again.

Is there anywhere that has this information easily accessible online? The other sources I can find will only generally show scheduled arrivals at +3 or +4 days. This is super useful.

[4eyed anorak]

I see Lufthansa has introduced a night stopping 3rd Frankfurt service on Monday, Thursday and Sunday.

Regards 4ea

[figgi_gsm]

Is there anywhere that has this information easily accessible online? The other sources I can find will only generally show scheduled arrivals at +3 or +4 days. This is super useful.
No, I just know what is due in and looked at the relevant Airlines websites for reference.

[Grant Davidson]

I see Lufthansa has introduced a night stopping 3rd Frankfurt service on Monday, Thursday and Sunday.

Regards 4ea
I don't think there was a crew for this morning's flight. I think they flew in late morning so the nightstopper was over seven hours late...

[Planeraz]

Qatar S22

Qatar resuming A359 service from 1st July. Changes back to 788 in October. Good to see the return of this aircraft for the peak summer season.

They are also using 789 on todays service.

[CabinCrewe]

and up to daily. Think the load factors dropped off a bit when daily A350, so maybe a 789 would be a sweet spot.

[GoEDI]

and up to daily. Think the load factors dropped off a bit when daily A350, so maybe a 789 would be a sweet spot.

The B789 seats more than the A359, so that is slightly strange logic... personally I think daily A359 is ideal based on current demand. I wouldn't be surprised to see the winter timetable updated to A359 in due course if the availability is there.

[CabinCrewe]

The B789 seats more than the A359, so that is slightly strange logic... personally I think daily A359 is ideal based on current demand. I wouldn't be surprised to see the winter timetable updated to A359 in due course if the availability is there.
J travel is down, cargo stable - the 789 has less J seats and same tonnage as an A359. Nothing strange in that logic.
It ran 25% empty overall on average even in good times and 1 in 5 seats go empty currently on the smaller 788.

[Planeraz]

https://mobile.twitter.com/IshrionA/status/1520830144532860929

Very Interesting tweet from the United States. LAX offering financial incentives for airlines to start non stop services to/from unserved destinations. Scotland is listed as a target destination. Could EDI be in the running for a direct non stop link to the the west coast of the US? I’m sure the team at EDI have long standing ambition to deliver such a route. Which airlines could be tempted to take a punt? Delta/Virgin? United?

[ld0595]

Good find! I'm not sure who would be best placed to take a punt on an Edinburgh - LA route. The usual American carriers don't really have much of a transatlantic service from LAX. Virgin perhaps?

[GoEDI]

J travel is down, cargo stable - the 789 has less J seats and same tonnage as an A359. Nothing strange in that logic.
It ran 25% empty overall on average even in good times and 1 in 5 seats go empty currently on the smaller 788.

QR will just be responding to current market demand, which you seem to be underestimating, as your 1 in 5 on average empty assumption is incorrect. The route is currently running consistently higher loads than that- 86% March/88% April/May will be similar. An increase back to daily was warranted based on current demand. I am surprised to see the A359 back on the route so soon, given over half the fleet remains grounded. QR must see the need for it based on current loads and future bookings, as it can't have been the easiest thing to schedule.

[nighthawk117]

Good find! I'm not sure who would be best placed to take a punt on an Edinburgh - LA route. The usual American carriers don't really have much of a transatlantic service from LAX. Virgin perhaps?

That's interesting. With Virgin dropping Barbados, they might well be looking at an alternative destination to help justify flying out of Edinburgh. LAX twice weekly would be a good bet.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

That's interesting. With Virgin dropping Barbados, they might well be looking at an alternative destination to help justify flying out of Edinburgh. LAX twice weekly would be a good bet.
A based A330 flying a summer program across MCO/LAX/SFO/BOS might be a really good summer season option stepping into the space vacated by Thomas Cook and staying clear of United and Delta. They have shiney new A339s coming soon which would be ideal, depending on the Upper / Economy split?

[Breathe]

A based A330 flying a summer program across MCO/LAX/SFO/BOS might be a really good summer season option stepping into the space vacated by Thomas Cook and staying clear of United and Delta. They have shiney new A339s coming soon which would be ideal, depending on the Upper / Economy split?
Given Delta own 49% of Virgin and already codeshare on some routes, wouldn't it make sense to partner with them to make a destination programme you suggest work?

[Sk1schoolsam]

Given Delta own 49% of Virgin and already codeshare on some routes, wouldn't it make sense to partner with them to make a destination programme you suggest work?

That’s logical then again I thought Virgin may have codeshared the Delta JKF and BOS flights already.

[Link Kilo]

That’s logical then again I thought Virgin may have codeshared the Delta JKF and BOS flights already.

They do: VS 4027 being EDI>JFK and VS 3963 being EDI>BOS for example. There's also a DL code on VS's EDI-MCO

[Planeraz]

Lots of speculation. Let’s hope something does transpire from LAX’s incentive. If an airline did take a punt on an EDI-LAX route or if other routes to North America were to start or even the Far East (return of emirates) and the sectors recovery continues, would the airport need to revisit and consider a further extension to the terminal building with more gates/air bridges? An LAX route would almost certainly require a wide body aircraft to make the trip? Unsure if a 321XLR would reach? The current set up for international arrivals at most gates is far from ideal when departing or arriving pax cannot de-plane or board at same time due to activity at other gates. It can be carnage if you arrive into gates 1 through 6. Could the airport re-develop gates on the pier and add bridges? All very hypothetical, however, with the prospect of returning to pre-pandemic pax numbers looking more probable, another extension could be required.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

No, they'd just allocate an airport slot in EDI when they had a gate available, no need for CAPEX just yet.

[inOban]

The quoted range of an XLR (4700 nautical miles )would reach LAX but without much spare.

[VickersVicount]

I just can’t see anyone operating LAX, VS A330 or otherwise, seasonal or not. If it did, it would be while an incentive lasted then ditched.

[YVRscot]

I just can’t see anyone operating LAX, VS A330 or otherwise, seasonal or not. If it did, it would be while an incentive lasted then ditched.
What about Western Canada? Both Calgary and Vancouver were served weekly from Glasgow until 2018. Modern emigrants don't just return every 5 or 10 years (3 times this year alone for me) and VFR has been the first market to recover. YVR is handy for connections to SFO, LAX and even Hawaii.

[Planeraz]

I personally don’t see Westjet using one of their 787’s for a service from Western Canada on a secondary/tourist driven route like EDI. Would Air Canada look at this? Just not sure. The best EDI can hope for in my opinion will be to retain a wide body service from Toronto in 2023. The fact that AC upgraded aircraft from the originally planned Max8 is promising. Presumably, increased demand will have driven that decision.

[VickersVicount]

YVR and Calgary are way more likely than LAX! But can’t see any of them in near future. WestJet and AC will mop up the connections

[tictack67]

I just can’t see anyone operating LAX, VS A330 or otherwise, seasonal or not. If it did, it would be while an incentive lasted then ditched.


The latest analysis I could find was Anna aero route shop.
Edi-Lax had approx 23,000 indirect passengers a year of which 15% were in premium cabins on last analysis
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x2000/screenshot_2022_06_10_06_58_35_91_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba 480b12_52510ddd498a48a039a5e06224e352779f763bad.jpg


Meaning average figures of 66J and 360Y AVG weekly

[Sk1schoolsam]

The latest analysis I could find was Anna aero route shop.
Edi-Lax had approx 23,000 indirect passengers a year of which 15% were in premium cabins on last analysis
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x2000/screenshot_2022_06_10_06_58_35_91_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba 480b12_52510ddd498a48a039a5e06224e352779f763bad.jpg


Meaning average figures of 66J and 360Y AVG weekly

I am sure LAX would not have included Scotland in there wish list (wonder if there’s added demand on from GLA) if there was not recognised demand both ways.

[davidjohnson6]

Flyr ends Oslo on 8 August 2022

[VickersVicount]

I am sure LAX would not have included Scotland in there wish list (wonder if there’s added demand on from GLA) if there was not recognised demand both ways.
There most certainly is some demand but the majority will funnel through with their OW or Star baggage tags via hubs. A Virgin service is unlikely to change that- otherwise the Avios’rs would have rammed Barbados, which they didn’t.

[tictack67]

There most certainly is some demand but the majority will funnel through with their OW or Star baggage tags via hubs. A Virgin service is unlikely to change that- otherwise the Avios’rs would have rammed Barbados, which they didn’t.

Actuall you can't use Avios for Virgin Atlantic flights.

They are competitors.

I personally think BGI was introduced around the easing of lockdown and a short lead in time.

[VickersVicount]

Actuall you can't use Avios for Virgin Atlantic flights.
Actually its a turn of phrase in reference to those who redeem, and of course historically with eg BA. Keep up!

[tictack67]

Actually its a turn of phrase in reference to those who redeem, and of course historically with eg BA. Keep up!
Quote
Airlines don't generally run new routes for points redemption and even then they only allocate a very small % of seats for redemption anyway this way.

So it would never be "rammed" with freebie points.

​​​​​​

[Asturias56]

"So it would never be "rammed" with freebie points."

Pre covid most Qantas flights seemed packed with folk redeeming points

[tictack67]

[QUOTE=Asturias56;11244388]"So it would never be "rammed" with freebie points."

Pre covid most Qantas flights seemed packed with folk redeeming points[/QUOTE
Hhow could you tell?

I wouldn't have thought there would be a huge number of Virgin "Flying club" members in Scotland or Newcastle, and the percentage of those nearby wanting to just happen to want to go to BGI would be small, and even if it were rammed with redemptions that would not have made money.

[Planeraz]

AC

Air Canada using a 789 on this evening service from YYZ. A nice little upgrade even if it is a one-off.

[Planeraz]

Air Canada updating system. 789 also operating tomorrow 14/2 and other select dates during S22. Subject to change of course. It would appear that EDI-YYZ route is performing well and an upgraded aircraft is required at certain times to satisfy demand. Will be interesting to see how Westjet perform.

[Planeraz]

United

United using a 763 on todays service from EWR. Tomorrows service to EWR is booked full. Could a 763 be a aircraft to come in the months ahead on this route?

[Asturias56]

"Hhow could you tell?"

Australians who think they have a real bargain are not the most retiring of of folk............... they want the WHOLE World to know they haven't spent a A$ :(

AND they have Frequent Flyer cards that enable them to fill the Lounges as well - NOT in perfect silence

[wub]

[QUOTE=Asturias56;11248464]AND they have Frequent Flyer cards that enable them to fill the Lounges as well - NOT in perfect silence[/QUOTE

I experienced this in the lounge at SIN a few weeks ago. The Qantas lounge closed and a whole Aussie Rules football team, in playing kit, descended on the BA lounge and went through the food like a plague of locusts. Nothing but crumbs left.

[Planeraz]

Air Baltic

Reported to be dropping EDI from end of August citing a lack of aircraft parts. Although subject to change, I suspect this time their will be no reprieve. Low load factors?

[tictack67]

Air Baltic

Reported to be dropping EDI from end of August citing a lack of aircraft parts. Although subject to change, I suspect this time their will be no reprieve. Low load factors?

Ryanair will be flying to Riga 5 times a week from the winter (up from 3 just now).so the route remains served.

Baltic lease 12% of their fleet to SAS and Eurowings.

Probably a shrud business move to wetlease, money guaranteed with no risk.

easy and BA meanwhile are grounding planes they are already paying for, paying for their parking and then paying for wetleases.
Obviously crewing issues but amazing none the less

[Planeraz]

Air Canada S23

Increased from 6 x W to daily from 2nd June. Retaining the 787. A long way off but still positive news.

[ld0595]

Air Canada S23

Increased from 6 x W to daily from 2nd June. Retaining the 787. A long way off but still positive news.

Great news. Always thought a Toronto route from Edinburgh would do reasonably well and it's good to see the 787 being retained.

Would be even better to see the route continue throughout the winter as well, even if it's on a reduced frequency on the 737 Max.

[A350Saltire]

Great news. Always thought a Toronto route from Edinburgh would do reasonably well and it's good to see the 787 being retained.

Would be even better to see the route continue throughout the winter as well, even if it's on a reduced frequency on the 737 Max.

Agreed re the winter service. Always good to see more wide bodies at EDI so a daily 788 in the summer is fantastic news.

I don’t think Westjet are doing too badly either…

[Link Kilo]

Impressive array of transatlantic arrivals this morning:

07:20 Orlando VS226 Virgin Atlantic A330
08:05 Newark UA036 United Airlines B752
08:25 Chicago UA118 United Airlines B752
08:50 Boston DL122 Delta B763
09:20 Toronto AC806 Air Canada B788
10:00 New York J F K DL208 Delta B763
10:45 Washington UA978 United Airlines B764

[tictack67]

Impressive array of transatlantic arrivals this morning:

07:20 Orlando VS226 Virgin Atlantic A330
08:05 Newark UA036 United Airlines B752
08:25 Chicago UA118 United Airlines B752
08:50 Boston DL122 Delta B763
09:20 Toronto AC806 Air Canada B788
10:00 New York J F K DL208 Delta B763
10:45 Washington UA978 United Airlines B764

Great to see, funny I was just looking at the number of flights from Scandinavia today.

It's amazing, looking at a map of Europe only Bosnia, Slovenia, Monaco, Vatican City, Luxemburg, Andorra and Corsica aren't served direct from Edinburgh, huge change from the 80's when Amsterdam and Dublin were the only regular international flights

[Link Kilo]

Great to see, funny I was just looking at the number of flights from Scandinavia today.


And on that note I see SAS's CPH service operating today, contrary to a previous post saying it had been dropped.

[BA318]

And on that note I see SAS's CPH service operating today, contrary to a previous post saying it had been dropped.

According to Flightradar24 it’s only operated twice in the past 90 days (three scheduled flights but one cancelled). There is a further flight on 9th July. Could it be related to the Tour de France which started in CPH yesterday.

Edit: I checked on SAS and it seems available twice a week (Wednesdays and Saturdays) in August at least. Not sure that’s much competition for the other flights operated by Ryanair, Easyjet and Norwegian.

[tictack67]

And on that note I see SAS's CPH service operating today, contrary to a previous post saying it had been dropped.

sadly it look alike SAS will not serve CPH in winter but Ryanair, easyJet & Norwegian will.

SK to still serve ARN from Edi in Winter as will Norwegian too

[AircraftOperations]

Great to see, funny I was just looking at the number of flights from Scandinavia today.

It's amazing, looking at a map of Europe only Bosnia, Slovenia, Monaco, Vatican City, Luxemburg, Andorra and Corsica aren't served direct from Edinburgh, huge change from the 80's when Amsterdam and Dublin were the only regular international flights

There won't be many cities in Europe that do have direct flights to Vatican City and Monaco...

[tictack67]

There won't be many cities in Europe that do have direct flights to Vatican City and Monaco...

I know, I was being sarcastic because if I hadn't said that but said all of Europe was served, someone would point that out as a failure of Edinburgh not having a service to Monte Carlo lol

[Planeraz]

Turkish W22

Daily, which is an increase compared to W21 3 x W.

[tictack67]

Turkish W22

Daily, which is an increase compared to W21 3 x W.

Keeping the A321 as well, looks like Air France using their own metal on CDG through winter 22

[Sk1schoolsam]

Does anyone know how many flights (if any) BA are cancelling to EDI as a result of there summer cull?

[Planeraz]

Jetblue

Lots of chat in various forums about JetBlue UK expansion. A number have expressed a view that EDI would be an obvious choice. I’m not so sure right now. EDI currently commands very good connectivity to US mid/east hubs. If they were to take a punt they would most likely be competing with DL and UA on established routes to NYC. DL - Boston route is also performing very strongly. In my view, UA may look at a Denver service to EDI in the near future. Denver is currently the largest airport in the US by size and is growing rapidly. United have just announced another multi million dollar investment which will mean 90 gates in the next 3 years.

[VickersVicount]

Nope, don’t see Denver (or JetBlue) anytime soon. Think the ill fated ATL might appear again before either of those.
Even BA from LHR to DEN is lacklusture (in gauge, fares, cabin offerings, and availability) so I think thats ambitious at best.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Nope, don’t see Denver (or JetBlue) anytime soon. Think the ill fated ATL might appear again before either of those.
Even BA from LHR to DEN is lacklusture (in gauge, fares, cabin offerings, and availability) so I think thats ambitious at best.

It would be great to get ATL back for the connectivity to the wider US and would I am sure drive more inbound traffic.
Ideally a year round Orlando and Toronto service would be great also 😉
As for JetBlue - Perhaps a seasonal low cost offering from the NE US may be attractive to different customer base similar to AC vs WestJet?
And will AA return with Philly inS23 when they eventually get more aircraft?

[Planeraz]

Ryanair - Spring 23

New route from March 23. Edinburgh - Belfast International. Daily service. Direct competition with EasyJet. A fair way off but positive news.

[Link Kilo]

Some QR aircraft changes in September: https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220711-qrsep22edi

[Planeraz]

Excellent news. Quite an upgrade. Clearly they must have big demand. Surely Emirates must be thinking again about a Dubai service to/ from EDI?

[Link Kilo]

The changes appear to be only for September. I presume they are due to a) aircraft availability due to A350 groundings and b) increase in international students arriving for start of academic term. It seems to revert to a 788 in October.

[willy wombat]

I would have thought EK would go back to double daily at GLA before resuming EDI.

[VickersVicount]

Think I would consciously avoid the QR 773 if A35 was available.
Odd the EQV is only for a month then back down to some 788’s.

[bravoromeosierra]

What QR says they'll fly and what they actually fly is two completely different matters. Either way I'm sure their crew scheduling team are delighted with such random aircraft allocations.

[Planeraz]

United S22

Chicago is being cut. Last departure from EDI - 6th September. It only resumed on 1st July. Only a few days ago, United claimed none of their international routes would be chopped due to the ongoing difficulties in the sector. It would appear this route is being sacrificed. Washington route for now is still available to the end of the season. 764 being used for the remainder of S22.

[Planeraz]

Delta S/W 22 EDI-JFK

Subject to change. From Sept 7th, Reduced from daily to 5 x weekly.

[GoEDI]

ORD isn't being axed, it's still on sale for S23. The season has been shortened this year.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Delta S/W 22 EDI-JFK

Subject to change. From Sept 7th, Reduced from daily to 5 x weekly.

Disappointing I thought the route was performing very strongly?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Disappointing I thought the route was performing very strongly?
It's *ENORMOUSLY* seasonal, Scotland transatlantic always was, unlike Ireland which has managed to move to a much stronger year round inbound market with good demand up front. Perhaps Nicola needs to set up a Scottish flag carrier to do for Scotland what Aer Lingus has done for Ireland? Air Scotia, your time has come? Air Ecosse perhaps? Ah, got it, Highland Express! That'll learn British Airways.
I think Continental got it right when they had a year round B757 daily on GLA-EWR with DC10 / B764, or 2 x B757 in summer, there's probably enough for a single daily Scotland-US hub core route at the moment, different in summer when Delta vs. United can both do quite well, winter remains a challenge. Genuinely interested in people's thoughts on Ireland vs. Scotland here, the jump from Aer Lingus losing money with B747s to the long haul hub with multiple AA/DL/UA/AC inbounds and a based EI fleet is hugely impressive. All came from dropping the SNN stop-over in 2007, what would be an equivalent for Scotland? Even Independence wouldn't automatically fill the Aer Lingus sized hole? The Heathrow experience is on it's knees at the moment and BA etc are struggling.

[Link Kilo]

Delta were five-weekly in W19 with a 757, which was the first winter they operated continuously (prior years had a break from early January to March IIRC). This winter it will be five-weekly on a 763, so an increase in capacity. I don't see much to complain about in that.

[nebpor]

Flying EDI to Boston on Sunday on the 11:55am flight - any insight into Edinburgh transit times just now? Safe to arrive at 10 or is that cutting it fine? Hand baggage only. Thanks!

[CabinCrewe]

Think it will be fine. Going has been fine… its arriving back… :0

[nebpor]

As expected - i'm going to be sure to use the toilet before we land back in EDI! Thanks!

[inOban]

I notice that there have been several ryanair cancellations in the past few days. I was wondering whether a frame has been moved south for the peak English holidays?

[Planeraz]

Air Canada/Westjet

The Canadian govt is bringing back “random covid testing” for passengers entering Canada. I wonder how this will impact on EDI’s Toronto route? Anyone found to be positive will face mandatory 10 day quarantine. A real step back which has been slammed by the Canadian travel and tourism sectors. Hopefully, Sturgeon won’t attempt any reciprocal arrangement. Given the opportunity, she would love to introduce such a policy in Scotland. Worrying times again for the airline sector more generally. We need to move on and live with the virus, which will never completely disappear.

[Link Kilo]

I notice that there have been several ryanair cancellations in the past few days. I was wondering whether a frame has been moved south for the peak English holidays?

All 10 of their first wave departures left this morning, so whatever caused yesterday's problems, it wasn't moving an aircraft "south for the peak English holidays".

[Asturias56]

Luggage

lots of bad news re luggage being dumped and people being invited to choose tbeir own outside the terminal in scots press yesterday

[inOban]

But this evening's Cork flight has been cancelled. I'm wondering if delays earlier in the day are the problem, crews OOH.

[Link Kilo]

But this evening's Cork flight has been cancelled. I'm wondering if delays earlier in the day are the problem, crews OOH.

I think that's a planned schedule adjustment. Looking at their website, there's only one EDI-ORK flight on Thursdays (the morning one) on sale until the 1st September, when the evening one is restored.

[inOban]

Thanks for doing my research for me!

[nebpor]

But this evening's Cork flight has been cancelled. I'm wondering if delays earlier in the day are the problem, crews OOH.

My sister in law had a 5 hour delay going to Cork last Wednesday.

I note this morning looks like everything was departing an hour late or so, airline independent.

[GoEDI]

Ryanair's reliability has taken a noticeable nose dive since the 5x MAX replaced NGs a few weeks ago, but that could just be total coincidence, given the timing of the switch was when things get really strained peak season anyway. All sort of factors likely to cause delays weather/ATC/crew/handling etc.

[nebpor]

Edinburgh was fine on Sunday, except Delta took 1.5 hours to the check-in desk (Boston and NYC go roughly the same time) - security etc was good and well-organised as well

[tartan 201]

I see the DXB W22 slot report has EDI returning (source: www.acl-uk.org/latest-airport-info/page/3/): (http://redirect.viglink.com/?key=71fe2139a887ad501313cd8cce3053c5&subId=7242798&u=https%3A//www.acl-uk.org/latest-airport-info/page/3/%29%3A)

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/972x544/screenshot_2022_07_26_at_21_18_50_fe683a40cde6d1b0f2075bd66c 6866f70d39e48d.png

No sign of it on sale though and it would be a bit late to put it on sale now for the start of the W22 season. However, it presumably indicates some intention to return.

[Planeraz]

Here’s hoping. I did wonder if this would happen. There’s clearly demand with Qatar enjoying bumper loads. Presumably driven by pax travelling and transiting to Oz and NZ for example. Although they can requests slots and not actually use them, it would be surprising if they didn’t have plans to resume at some point.

[GoEDI]

Good spot! Looks like 5x weekly 3 Class B77W similar to what used to operate, based on those numbers. GLA is interesting too. No change in number of movements on W21, but seat capacity way up. Could indicate A380 planned? Just have to wait and see what happens...

[Planeraz]

United S22

All three routes continue to perform strongly. EDI-ORD booked full again tomorrow. IAD with only 1 J seat available. EWR aircraft upgraded to a 764 and booked full.

[GoEDI]

United S22

All three routes continue to perform strongly. EDI-ORD booked full again tomorrow. IAD with only 1 J seat available. EWR aircraft upgraded to a 764 and booked full.

There have been a couple cancellations this week, resulting in a back log needing cleared, just for a change for UA... However, yes, loads are extremely high across the board on all transatlantic routes regardless, with the exception of VS MCO, which rather bizarrely has not been the sure fire hit everyone seemed to expect it to be, yet...

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

So given Virgin charged a premium to fly GLA-MCO direct on the B744, where has the Florida traffic bled off to?

[GrahamK]

So given Virgin charged a premium to fly GLA-MCO direct on the B744, where has the Florida traffic bled off to?
GLA traffic shifted to MAN? If so, EDI-MCO won't last long

[tictack67]

There have been a couple cancellations this week, resulting in a back log needing cleared, just for a change for UA... However, yes, loads are extremely high across the board on all transatlantic routes regardless, with the exception of VS MCO, which rather bizarrely has not been the sure fire hit everyone seemed to expect it to be, yet...

Orlando is a very different market.

Other US cities tend to be short city breaks.

MCO is the 14 day holiday, Disney are currently offering a 14 day pass for the price of a 7 day pass (£496pp) suggesting at height of summer they are seeing a turndown.

MCO is a well planned considered and expensive holiday with park tickets amount to a huge sum.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x2000/screenshot_2022_07_27_08_06_05_43_40deb401b9ffe8e1df2f1cc5ba 480b12_db4c6c611b527827f85498cfb51da70a0b0520d3.jpg

[ATNotts]

ticktack67:

Blimey there must be some mugs around willing to shell out just shy of £500 for a week (or two) per person for the Disney parks. I found two days more than enough, you can only take so much Disney!

As far as I am aware Florida always sees a downturn in high summer as the weather is horrible, too hot, too humid and you're slap bang in the middle of hurricane season. Americans and Canadians mostly, like swallows, go south in the winter. November to April is by far the best period of the year to enjoy Florida's climate.

[Asturias56]

Agreed - not pleasant in summer - tho the hurricane season stretches into December sometimes

[Planeraz]

I strongly suspect the main reason for Virgin choosing EDI as their “scottish home” was a financial carrot dangled by management to lure them away from Glasgow. As we know they don’t have any aircraft based at EDI. Profit primarily and load factors will determine how long they hang around for. They’re no different to the majority of airlines. I don’t know what the actual load factors have been for the route but I doubt they have been dreadful. Had they been way below expectation, the route would have been chopped very quickly.

[inOban]

AIR, because of the link with Delta, there expected to be significant interchange traffic through their hub. Is there?
Disney and others can't believe their luck at the eagerness of the British to visit Florida during its low season when no sane American goes. Mind you, I wouldn't go to the Med in summer either.

[ATNotts]

Mind you, I wouldn't go to the Med in summer either.

Me neither, not just the weather but the clientele too!

[A350Saltire]

I strongly suspect the main reason for Virgin choosing EDI as their “scottish home” was a financial carrot dangled by management to lure them away from Glasgow. As we know they don’t have any aircraft based at EDI. Profit primarily and load factors will determine how long they hang around for. They’re no different to the majority of airlines. I don’t know what the actual load factors have been for the route but I doubt they have been dreadful. Had they been way below expectation, the route would have been chopped very quickly.

I read on the EDI forum that VS to MCO had a load factor around 71% in June.

Having said that, all of the other transatlantic routes were in the very high 90s in June.

DOH performing well too.

[CabinCrewe]

I read on the EDI forum that VS to MCO had a load factor around 71% in June.

Thats not a great figure. Doesn’t show a month on month significant improvement either as you might expect. If I recall equivalent 2018/19 figures even on the much larger 744 were often into the 90’s. Perhaps TUI were correct all along keeping Florida a 4 week series only.
I would imagine though eg IAD and NYC have lots of outbound connectors to Florida also.

[SWBKCB]

Just going back to those EK slots, if the EDI figure equates to a 5 weekly 777, what is happening with those NCL figures - well over double??

[Saabandthecity]

UA37 today declared an emergency and diverted to Shannon.

Anyone have an info on what the issue was?

Cheers

[Planeraz]

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/rescue-vehicles-line-shannon-airport-27590988

Pressurisation issue. Sounds like this was a big scare.

Flight eventually formally cancelled following inspection just after 4pm today.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Just going back to those EK slots, if the EDI figure equates to a 5 weekly 777, what is happening with those NCL figures - well over double??

Have to admit I gave up trying to understand the numbers, seams there could be a number of permutations for EDI like a part return with ex NCL style 5 per week from some time Nov or perhaps a full service from the new year. I could however be reading this totally wrong.
NCL seams a big increase to at least double daily with perhaps some bigger frames too (can NCL take the A380) Looks good for its return to GLA.
However I take this all with a big dash of scepticism as I have no idea how often these reports become reality.

[Planeraz]

NCL runway is more than 200m shorter than EDI at 2329.. My understanding is EDI runway isn’t long enough to accommodate an A380. A fully loaded A380 requires a runway min 3000m. The answer for NCL is no. Taxiway widening/strengthening and parking would also be a major issue. Taxiway width would certainly be an issue at EDI.

[Sk1schoolsam]

NCL runway is more than 200m shorter than EDI at 2329.. My understanding is EDI runway isn’t long enough to accommodate an A380. A fully loaded A380 requires a runway min 3000m. The answer for NCL is no. Taxiway widening/strengthening and parking would also be a major issue. Taxiway width would certainly be an issue at EDI.

Many thanks for that info. Never thought at any point we would see an A380 at EDI because of the runway length anyway. Let’s remain positive and hope that EK do start back, but hopefully not at the expense of Qatar.
Maybe one day in the next year or two we may see double daily’s return.

[GoEDI]

Just going back to those EK slots, if the EDI figure equates to a 5 weekly 777, what is happening with those NCL figures - well over double??

When you crunch the numbers, the NCL slot application reflects a year on year increase from 4x weekly W21, to 2x daily W22 on 2x class B77W. Whether that's what ends up operating remains to be seen. They're perhaps keeping their options open, as that would represent a huge capacity increase across EDI/GLA/NCL region in one hit. The World Cup could be a consideration for them though...

[Planeraz]

With regards to EDI, given the increasing demand to travel post pandemic, how much of a factor if any is the rivalry between Emirates and Qatar? EK entered the EDI market to try and push QR out. It didn’t work out that way. QR have remained loyal to EDI and are established. EK will certainly be taking notice of QR’s current high load factors. QR went double daily for a period. An attempt on their part to test the competitors commitment to EDI? Is the EDI market big enough to satisfy both? Will be interesting times ahead.

[CabinCrewe]

EK entered the EDI market to try and push QR out.
Not sure that was the case at all. QR and EK operate from a number of destinations simultaneously. Its more getting in on the action and grabbing some of the pie. I’ve a feeling if EK wanted to they could obliterate QR if they so desired. The numbers on EK at EDI were variable at best, but had EK persisted, a slow creep would have eventually overtaken QR and with a shift in pax.

[Asturias56]

I’ve a feeling if EK wanted to they could obliterate QR if they so desired."

Politically the Emir won't allow that - QR are a National Asset. everyone in the Gulf remembers Gulf Airways and how they all moaned and bitched that it was biased towards someone (everyone) else

​​​​​​​And at current gas prices Qatar ca n run an airline using cash left over in the rounding error on the National Budget spreadsheet

[tictack67]

I’ve a feeling if EK wanted to they could obliterate QR if they so desired."

Politically the Emir won't allow that - QR are a National Asset. everyone in the Gulf remembers Gulf Airways and how they all moaned and bitched that it was biased towards someone (everyone) else

And at current gas prices Qatar ca n run an airline using cash left over in the rounding error on the National Budget spreadsheet

I think EK/QR are taking traffic that would normally go via LHR and AMS/CDG with the chaos there and BA using A319 during Edinburgh festival in August on first wave.

​​​​​​​That's Why Lufthansa now have a morning departure on several days a week

[CabinCrewe]

I think EK/QR are taking traffic that would normally go via LHR and AMS/CDG with the chaos there and BA using A319 during Edinburgh festival in August on first wave.

That's Why Lufthansa now have a morning departure on several days a week
Curious for BA to be using A319s when there are at least 5 stored A320s sitting taped up, but maybe they have less cabin crew and ease staffing issues.

[Planeraz]

Curious for BA to be using A319s when there are at least 5 stored A320s sitting taped up, but maybe they have less cabin crew and ease staffing issues.

Agree it certainly appears to be staffing issues. Certainly not a lack of demand. Most of the red eye going out to LHR and inbound in August appear to be sold out already. The few economy seats that remain are priced crazy high. As much as £331 one way. If only their was a competitor on the LHR route. It wasn’t all that long ago that BA used and filled a 763 at certain times. Had the resources been in place now, I’m pretty sure they could fill additional 21N or a 788, particularly in peak summer season. Not going to happen it would appear.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Also a cap on how many seats they can sell ex LHR as the airport operator has capped movements and demanded operators sell fewer seats. No, really.

[Albert Hall]

There are still 18 A321ceo aircraft in storage in Spain but I don’t think you’ll see those at LHR any time soon.

[willy wombat]

There is no way EK could obliterate QR even if they wanted to. To quote someone (I can’t remember who) it would be like having a bleeding contest against a blood bank.

[Planeraz]

Some QR aircraft changes in September: https://aeroroutes.com/eng/220711-qrsep22edi


Qatar making more changes to aircraft operating on certain days. The reported 773 operations appear to have changed and revert to a 359. They’re also replacing 359 with a 788 on certain days in Sept. 788 daily from 2nd October. The 351 still showing as operating on 13th Sept.

[Wycombe]

There are still 18 A321ceo aircraft in storage in Spain but I don’t think you’ll see those at LHR any time soon.
4 or 5 of these a/c (the G-EUXx and G-MEDx 321s) have returned to service over the last few months (a quick check on FR24 shows 4 of them airborne as I type)

[Asturias56]

There is no way EK could obliterate QR even if they wanted to. To quote someone (I can’t remember who) it would be like having a bleeding contest against a blood bank.

"There is no way EK could obliterate QR even if they wanted to. To quote someone (I can’t remember who) it would be like having a bleeding contest against a blood bank."

:ok:

People don't realise that Dubai has very little oil & gas - its a trading hub - whereas Qatar has a substantial portion of the world's useable, shippable, natural gas reserves...... which at the moment is not a bad place to be ;)

[Albert Hall]

4 or 5 of these a/c (the G-EUXx and G-MEDx 321s) have returned to service over the last few months (a quick check on FR24 shows 4 of them airborne as I type)

I stand corrected. Wasn’t expecting that based on what I’d been told but yes, some of them are indeed back and at LHR.

[Rutan16]

I stand corrected. Wasn’t expecting that based on what I’d been told but yes, some of them are indeed back and at LHR.
Five of the EUX range of 231 models have resumed operations so far.

None of the ex BMED/BMI aircraft have resumed operation to-date although MEDU has pinged occasionally.

Careful miss identifying the A320 In the ex BMED/BMI series- one G-MEDK is in service as are all the ex BMI G-MID. series

More of the EUX. Frames may return however I expect the three mid haulers may not !

[OntimeexceptACARS]

I see that N17139, United B752 has been on the ground for a few days, preumably tech. Anyone know the reason? Awaiting engine change, fuselage damage?

[CabinCrewe]

The combination of routes and delays /tech aircraft issues to/from EDI this summer have been atrocious. Would certainly make you think twice about using. Significant delays the norm rather than exception. The ontime performance of trunk routes ex LHR meanwhile seem much better which is surprising.

[Asturias56]

"The ontime performance of trunk routes ex LHR meanwhile seem much better which is surprising."

Its the same everywhere and regular LHR users don't think its good at all...................

[Rutan16]

It is regrettable that the 757 and early 763 frames are clapped out , and pretty much end of life over the Atlantic

DELTA has three sub classes on the 763
Un refurb C26/200 ( used to Edinburgh -about twenty frames ) aged from over 23 to 30 years old!
C36/Y175 ( used Transcontinental and to Hawaii ( 8 frames)
Refurbished C26/W18\Y172 ( used to Heathrow/Amsterdam/ Paris and a few others)

American well they couldn’t care less about Europe these days period ( The shirts in Texas think only of Dallas ;))

United are well aware of increasing costs and failing reliability of the 757 fleet , and right now I think their already stretched with the 763 fleets and 764 fleets

The 764s are great high season on secondary European routes with C39/Y203 whilst the majority of the 763 frames are far to premium C46W22Y99 including a few acquired late from Hawaiian leaving just 16 763 frames in a two class C30Y184 to serve Europe, and Central American secondary and tertiary markets.

United certainly need a boost in the 180-250 seat medium and long haul market soon or further contractions are inevitable imho.

That will be the A321xlr however not before I believe Spring 2024.

BTW UNITED continue to have one daily rotation with the 757 into Heathrow which has seen at least one tech issue in each month since April , several cancellations and one divert to St Johns .

As for the Dreamliner fleet , there are a tiny fleet 5 or 6 789 currently two class C48Y204 whilst the rest are all premium heavy across all three varieties currently delivered.

Pure conjecture would expect a few more especially the 787-10 frames to be redeployed in a two class arrangement in future for secondary and Hawaiian duties at some point.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The whole United B788 and B789 fleet is moving to three class as the Polaris refits are done. Deliveries from N29975 onwards came with Polaris, new livery and Premium Economy. The last 8 B787-10s are coming with Polaris and 3 classes and so the Dreamliner fleet will be fairly uniform. EDI is an A321 destination I suspect, not too long to wait.

[VickersVicount]

Last media quote was
”United plans to take delivery of the first A321XLR in 2024 and expects to begin international service with the aircraft in 2025”
So still a significant wait and thats assuming no production delays. Then likely to be only one base eg EWR to start.

[Rutan16]

Last media quote was
”United plans to take delivery of the first A321XLR in 2024 and expects to begin international service with the aircraft in 2025”
So still a significant wait and thats assuming no production delays. Then likely to be only one base eg EWR to start.

Also my understanding, and reason I said some contraction however temporary.

Skip at some point they need to replace the Hawaiian 772 fleet and a high premium 787 ain’t gonna be the right creature and I conjecture neither are the max or 321s .
Some of those 787-10 frame really are he best vehicle and certain won’t demand 65 premium seats imho. The clapped out 777-222 aircraft can be swapped with 10 on an almost 1 for 1 basis at some point still that probably another three to five years out at the moment

[Planeraz]

American S23

I reached out on Twitter to American to try and find out if PHL will return in S23. Surprisingly, I did receive a response stating that American “hope” to return to Edinburgh in summer 23. Stay tuned for announcements in the fall about scottish routes. Will they or won’t they? Resource issues apparently in S22. Mainly lack of available aircraft. Although they are notorious for starting then chopping European routes very freely, they must see other US airlines enjoying a bumper summer season in the Scottish market.

[VickersVicount]

American S23

I reached out on Twitter to American to try and find out if PHL will return in S23. Surprisingly, I did receive a response stating that American “hope” to return to Edinburgh in summer 23.
You didn’t honestly expect them to say anything else?

[Planeraz]

You didn’t honestly expect them to say anything else?

I was surprised to even get a response! They normally ignore such “enquiries”.

[nighthawk117]

They just retired their 757 fleet, so they'll need to find something else to operate the route. They have a few 787s on order, but deliveries of those are currently suspended, so they'd need to chop something else to operate to Edinburgh.

[ATNotts]

Amid all the optimism that we read regarding expansion of transatlantic, well any expansion in summer 2023, we mustn't forget that demands on household budgets in the next 12 months are going to include £3500 p.a utility bills, up around £2,000 from 12 months ago, and spiralling food prices. Where is the money going to come from to allow people to fill all the seats on all the extra services anticipated already for next summer?

Running a global travel business is well above my pay grade, but to me, consolidation of what's available in 2022 and retaining that level of business is going to be the best most airlines and tour operators can expect in 2023, expansion looks like a pipe dream. And let's not forget that these higher energy and food costs aren't just impacting the UK, but they are a global problem, so expecting to put inbound "bums on seats" is not likely to lead to much growth either.

2023 is going to be very tough, just what the industry doesn't need after the virtual two year hiatus caused by Covid-19 and the restrictions that were brought in as a consequence.

[VickersVicount]

Amid all the optimism that we read regarding expansion of transatlantic, well any expansion in summer 2023, we mustn't forget that demands on household budgets in the next 12 months are going to include £3500 p.a utility bills, up around £2,000 from 12 months ago, and spiralling food prices. Where is the money going to come from to allow people to fill all the seats on all the extra services anticipated already for next summer?

Running a global travel business is well above my pay grade, but to me, consolidation of what's available in 2022 and retaining that level of business is going to be the best most airlines and tour operators can expect in 2023, expansion looks like a pipe dream. And let's not forget that these higher energy and food costs aren't just impacting the UK, but they are a global problem, so expecting to put inbound "bums on seats" is not likely to lead to much growth either.

2023 is going to be very tough, just what the industry doesn't need after the virtual two year hiatus caused by Covid-19 and the restrictions that were brought in as a consequence.
It usually takes something ‘physical’ to deter flying - eg Covid, 9/11, ash cloud. Rarely does finances seem to hugely (on their own) impact the ability and determination to fly. Where there is a will there is often a way. The Benidormer’s will use their fuel rebates to board that low cost flight. Transatlantic might be a different scenario though.

[tartan 201]

They just retired their 757 fleet, so they'll need to find something else to operate the route. They have a few 787s on order, but deliveries of those are currently suspended, so they'd need to chop something else to operate to Edinburgh.

787 deliveries resume this month with nine expected this year: https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/american-expects-boeing-to-resume-787-deliveries-this-quarter/149555.article

Most of EDI's North Atlantic demand is inbound. Weakness in Sterling versus the US and Canadian dollars may actually help demand from those markets by making trips to the UK relatively more affordable.

[ATNotts]

787 deliveries resume this month with nine expected this year: https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/american-expects-boeing-to-resume-787-deliveries-this-quarter/149555.article

Most of EDI's North Atlantic demand is inbound. Weakness in Sterling versus the US and Canadian dollars may actually help demand from those markets by making trips to the UK relatively more affordable.

Leaving aside the extortionate cost of decent hotel accommodation in UK! In addition the USA is also suffering high inflation, comparable to that in the UK I believe. I hope I am proved wrong but I really don't see 2023 being particularly rosy.

[Planeraz]

It usually takes something ‘physical’ to deter flying - eg Covid, 9/11, ash cloud. Rarely does finances seem to hugely (on their own) impact the ability and determination to fly. Where there is a will there is often a way. The Benidormer’s will use their fuel rebates to board that low cost flight. Transatlantic might be a different scenario though.

Agree. People will still fly be it for business or pleasure. With regards to American, should the aircraft be available and most importantly if they believe they can make money, the PHL route will return. The NYC market appears to be well covered by UA and DL. United via their hubs and IAD is enjoying a bumper season. PHL or CLT hubs is geographically convenient for American. If the conditions allow, like before, PHL route will be successful.

[VickersVicount]

Emirates UK manager: “Edinburgh was a very strong route for us, particularly inbound in summer,” he said”
Suppose its the other 9 months of the year they’ll have looked at to decided what is boosted /reinstated. Perhaps S23 ?

[Planeraz]

Emirates UK manager: “Edinburgh was a very strong route for us, particularly inbound in summer,” he said”
Suppose its the other 9 months of the year they’ll have looked at to decided what is boosted /reinstated. Perhaps S23 ?

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/emirates-hails-uk-demand-as-it-rebuilds-schedules-35611

Here is the article. The comments certainly suggest a resumption of EDI-Dubai service is likely. As others have estimated, based on slots request for Dubai, a 5 x weekly service could be a starting point. Perhaps increasing to daily at peak summer times which according to the article, the route previously performed very strongly. Is it too late for a resumption in 2022? Others believe it may be. I’m not so sure. A late November resumption for example would give them ample lead in time and would allow them to meet the the Xmas/NY demand.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

With much of Asia still closed or semi-closed to BAU tourism and a whole subfleet of delayed B787-8s about to arrive en-masse from Boeing, it's not that unlikely AA will be back.

[SWBKCB]

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/emirates-hails-uk-demand-as-it-rebuilds-schedules-35611

Here is the article. The comments certainly suggest a resumption of EDI-Dubai service is likely. As others have estimated, based on slots request for Dubai, a 5 x weekly service could be a starting point. Perhaps increasing to daily at peak summer times which according to the article, the route previously performed very strongly. Is it too late for a resumption in 2022? Others believe it may be. I’m not so sure. A late November resumption for example would give them ample lead in time and would allow them to meet the the Xmas/NY demand.

The article says

Services to the Scottish capital are likely to be restored, he indicated. “Edinburgh was a very strong route for us, particularly inbound in summer,” he said.

The article also implies that EDI was dropped due to Covid, says Stansted is daily - it's five weekly - and omits Newcastle from the list of destinations not yet restored to pre-covid levels, so make of it what you will.

[GrahamK]

The article says



The article also implies that EDI was dropped due to Covid, says Stansted is daily - it's five weekly - and omits Newcastle from the list of destinations not yet restored to pre-covid levels, so make of it what you will.
STN is daily, built you are correct in that NCL is missing frequencies

[SWBKCB]

STN is daily, built you are correct in that NCL is missing frequencies

Apologies, mis-read the press reports - looks like STN was originally re-starting at five weekly but upped to daily

[AA123]

According to the EACC Q2 Update, Emirates is expected to resume in S23.