Manchester-3

[chaps1954]

Smaller aircaft but more frequent

[Rutan16]

Smaller aircaft but more frequent Are we sure of frequency uplift at this point . The reason for the change is more to do with the fact the A333 fleet are normally based in Montreal
The 77w Pfreighters should be back in service on the three key LHR/FRA/CDG axis displacing the 788/789 fleet for the likes of the Manchester route
What we really need is a much expanded season length imho

[chaps1954]

I agree about longer season as Air Transat operate all winter

[HOVIS]

Can you drop off your bags at Easyjet check in the night before you travel? I read somewhere that some airlines allow it.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Passed through T3 security at approximately 08:40 on Wednesday morning (flight STD 10:50). Surprised to find that there was NO QUEUE at all at this hour. Directly to the scanners and through. T3 was busy airside, but found seating OK. Very long queue for the coffee outlet ... that seems to be the main pinch-point these days!

Just arrived back into T3 about an hour ago (Friday). Not a typical experience, as the Loganair flight from Ronaldsway arrived on a 'local standby' (precautionary turnout of the Airport Fire Service). It was therefore directed to remote-park on stand 69 from where a bus transferred passengers to Gate 150 for domestic access to T3. There was a short delay of about five minutes whilst the bus driver obtained approval to allow the passengers to access the building. Once inside, it was straight to the exit and out.

No issues to speak of from a Manchester Airport perspective. However, Loganair were enduring quite the nightmare day! Felt quite sorry for them.

[SWBKCB]

Can you drop off your bags at Easyjet check in the night before you travel? I read somewhere that some airlines allow it.

Jet2 do, not heard of others. Thought this was pretty standard from Jet2, despite the article

Passengers offered 'fantastic' Jet2 service to avoid Manchester Airport queues (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/passengers-offered-fantastic-jet2-service-24014473)

[AircraftOperations]

Jet2 do, not heard of others. Thought this was pretty standard from Jet2, despite the article

Passengers offered 'fantastic' Jet2 service to avoid Manchester Airport queues (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/passengers-offered-fantastic-jet2-service-24014473)

Jet2, and certain TUI destinations are included at MAN according to social media.

[Mr Mac]

Just arrived for the EK lunch time flight a little too early as I have breezed through check in and security, and a bit of await now ☹️ The lines looked normal to me today.
Cheers
Mr Mac

[DP.]

Security is operating normally at Liverpool, im flying to Jersey from there on Saturday and Frankfurt on Wednesday. I can let you know.

I've been through MAN (T1 for T3) and LPL in the last couple of months, both first wave departures. Security took about 35 mins at MAN and about 30 mins at LPL.

The issues at MAN have been well publicised, but the idea that that is the case at all times is as incorrect as the idea that you can get through at LPL in <10 minutes all the time.

[Manchester Exile]

Well, I flew into Manchester for the first time in several years yesterday and the arrivals process was pretty smooth. I was on the EK17 flight, which had around 400 pax. I was seated in row 88 at the very back of the bus, so was among the last off. It took about 20 minutes of queuing to clear the border, then a 5 minute wait for my bag. So all good from that perspective.

What wasn't good was the state of the infrastructure in T1. We all know that Pier B is well past its due-by date, but the most noticeable thing about it for me was the thick layers of dust and grime in the venting grids along the whole length of the pier. The rest of T1 was dark, depressing and shabby. The toilets at the baggage claim were dirty, with no soap in the dispensers and broken locks on the doors. These things are so simple to fix, yet their neglect leaves a very negative impression in the minds of passengers. Send out a bloke with a screwdriver to mend the locks, get the cleaners to clean the sinks and fill the soap dispensers, and get a cleaning crew to get rid of the dust and dirt in pier B. It really isn't rocket science.

Tomorrow I'm departing T1 on the lunchtime SAS flight to Oslo. Will be interesting to see how that goes.

[Mr Mac]

Manchester Exile
But the lift and escalator was working last week on Pier B ( or it was when I came through which was a first in a while !). Totally agree with you about the other points you raised about basic house keeping. Makes for a pretty shabby arrival experience on arguably one of the airports premium services.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[lfc84]

I am going to guess the enaswer is "No" but.... Is it possible to transfer airside from a T1 domestic arrival to a T3 domestic departure ? hand baggage only, onward boarding pas alreday on my phone

[BACsuperVC10]

I've been through MAN (T1 for T3) and LPL in the last couple of months, both first wave departures. Security took about 35 mins at MAN and about 30 mins at LPL.

The issues at MAN have been well publicised, but the idea that that is the case at all times is as incorrect as the idea that you can get through at LPL in <10 minutes all the time.
Didnt say it was, i have already replied to the passengers here some time ago. I have been through LPL twice this month, one time security was 10 mins the time before about 15 mins. Depends on time of day.

[MANFOD]

It does indeed depend on the time of day. The MAN web site shows estimated waiting times at security. I can't vouch for the accuracy of this or whether it's bang up to-date but the difference in an hour is quite marked.
At about 5.30pm today, it showed T1 as 5-15 minutes; T2 as 15-30 minutes and T3 as 5-15 minutes.
Just recently at 6.30pm, T1 was up slightly to 15-30 minutes; T2 had extended to 30-60 minutes and T3 still 5-15 minutes. Yet as I write, T2 is back at 15-30 minutes.

Can anyone confirm whether the times quoted on the web site - not just today - are reasonably accurate?

[Mr Mac]

MANFOD
The times quoted match my own experience recently as it is the airport, as well as Munich I use the most in my travels, though DXB also is perhaps a 3rd followed by Frankfurt. Unfortunately I would have to say MAN is the worst though I do like EK lounge and staff there and tell them when go through.

Cheers
Mr Mac
Just about to go through DXB so will see how they do as it’s been a few month’s.

[ImPlaneCrazy]

It does indeed depend on the time of day. The MAN web site shows estimated waiting times at security. I can't vouch for the accuracy of this or whether it's bang up to-date but the difference in an hour is quite marked.
At about 5.30pm today, it showed T1 as 5-15 minutes; T2 as 15-30 minutes and T3 as 5-15 minutes.
Just recently at 6.30pm, T1 was up slightly to 15-30 minutes; T2 had extended to 30-60 minutes and T3 still 5-15 minutes. Yet as I write, T2 is back at 15-30 minutes.

Can anyone confirm whether the times quoted on the web site - not just today - are reasonably accurate?

Yes, the times quoted on the website are integrated with the queue monitoring systems in the terminal so it should always be a live reflection of the current situ.

[MANFOD]

Yes, the times quoted on the website are integrated with the queue monitoring systems in the terminal so it should always be a live reflection of the current situ.

Thanks for that, and to Mr Mac for your comments. Hope your DXB experience was OK.

[Mr Mac]

Manfod
I am an old hand at the DXB 2 step so no issues, which to be honest is the normal for me there. Thanks for kind thoughts. Back to MAN at the weekend, but will the escalator/ lift be working on that very long pier 🙂

Cheers
Mr Mac

[A350Saltire]

Just picked my mate up from T3. Made to wait on the plane for 45 mins after landing as no staff to meet the aircraft.

As a result I was charged £12 instead of £6 for the T3 pick up zone.

[Mark J Bowcock]

[QUOTE=A350Saltire;11235510]Just picked my mate up from T3. Made to wait on the plane for 45 mins after landing as no staff to meet the aircraft.

As a result I was charged £12 instead of £6 for the T3 pick up zone

The point of this being? There’s loads of places near the airport you can park up then ask him to call you when he’s in arrivals! You just drive in and pick him up. Fed up of people moaning

[gsky]

[QUOTE=A350Saltire;11235510]Just picked my mate up from T3. Made to wait on the plane for 45 mins after landing as no staff to meet the aircraft.

As a result I was charged £12 instead of £6 for the T3 pick up zone

The point of this being? There’s loads of places near the airport you can park up then ask him to call you when he’s in arrivals! You just drive in and pick him up. Fed up of people moaning

​​​​​​"There’s loads of places near the airport you can park up"

Such as?

[TURIN]

[QUOTE=A350Saltire;11235510]Just picked my mate up from T3. Made to wait on the plane for 45 mins after landing as no staff to meet the aircraft.

As a result I was charged £12 instead of £6 for the T3 pick up zone

The point of this being? There’s loads of places near the airport you can park up then ask him to call you when he’s in arrivals! You just drive in and pick him up. Fed up of people moaning

What an idiotic attitude.

People who drive from out of town who don't know the area can just rock up and park somewhere off site can they? Yeah, if you have local knowledge or work there then you will know where all the little laybys and cut throughs are. but not if you're from any distance away.
If you are fed up of (sic) people moaning you're in the wrong place. This is Pprune!

[DP.]

​​​​​​"There’s loads of places near the airport you can park up"

Such as?

There are loads of roads around Woodhouse Park, for one, with no restrictions where you could pull up and wait.

I imagine you could probably wait in the free (for an hour) drop-off too - they say it's for drop-off only but as it's ANPR operated and I doubt they've got the staff spare to patrol it currently, I'm not sure how they're going to enforce that.

[gdiddy]

Not been there is a while, but "The Airport" pub is a great place to consider parking while waiting to pick up friends and family, before you nip to the terminal to pick them up.

Yes you have to pay for parking there, but you can enjoy a pint or a soft drink while waiting in very pleasant surroundings. - £1.80 for an hour, £3.50 for two hours or £5.40 for three hours, surely cheaper than the short stay?
Our Parking Guide at The Airport Pub (https://airport.pub/wp-content/uploads/sites/25/2021/07/Airport-Parking-v6.pdf)

Considering they are right on the airport property, don't think the parking fees are too bad, very nice inside and amazing views of the runway!

[A350Saltire]

[QUOTE=A350Saltire;11235510]Just picked my mate up from T3. Made to wait on the plane for 45 mins after landing as no staff to meet the aircraft.

As a result I was charged £12 instead of £6 for the T3 pick up zone

The point of this being? There’s loads of places near the airport you can park up then ask him to call you when he’s in arrivals! You just drive in and pick him up. Fed up of people moaning

Wind your neck in. Not everyone knows the intimate details of the area around the airport. It is not well signposted and at the end of the day it was the airport’s fault they could not handle the aircraft when it arrived. But to then charge double because of their delays leaves a horrible taste. The place is a terrible at the moment.

[SCFC1EP]

[QUOTE=Mark J Bowcock;11235650]

Wind your neck in. Not everyone knows the intimate details of the area around the airport. It is not well signposted and at the end of the day it was the airport’s fault they could not handle the aircraft when it arrived. But to then charge double because of their delays leaves a horrible taste. The place is a terrible at the moment.

Every airport is the same, every car park is the same when you enter and leave the car park it will charge you the time you was there, a machine will not know why you was there or if a flight was late.or if the passenger takes longer to leave the airport
Simple when passengers have cleared passport control get them to call you then drive upto the pick up area it will still take the passenger 5 minutes to get there in that time you have plenty of time to drive last bit, does it matter if the passenger or driver has to wait two minutes either way
If you don't want to pay simple there's plenty of places to park stranger or no stranger to the area if you travelling by car easy to pull off the motorway one junction before and park nearby all other roads to the airport have plenty of places that you can park no double yellow lines and all within 5 drive

[A350Saltire]

[QUOTE=A350Saltire;11235944]

Every airport is the same, every car park is the same when you enter and leave the car park it will charge you the time you was there, a machine will not know why you was there or if a flight was late.or if the passenger takes longer to leave the airport
Simple when passengers have cleared passport control get them to call you then drive upto the pick up area it will still take the passenger 5 minutes to get there in that time you have plenty of time to drive last bit, does it matter if the passenger or driver has to wait two minutes either way
If you don't want to pay simple there's plenty of places to park stranger or no stranger to the area if you travelling by car easy to pull off the motorway one junction before and park nearby all other roads to the airport have plenty of places that you can park no double yellow lines and all within 5 drive

Is there really? My point is it was Manchester airport’s fault that they could not handle the aircraft when it arrive and passengers sat on it for almost an hour. Disgraceful to be honest and it’s happening often. I don’t care about the parking charge I was just giving it as an example to why it might leave a salty taste in the every day punter’s mouth.

[chaps1954]

Was it or was it handling agent or customs ?

[Mr A Tis]

Looks like 9 easyJet flights cancelled ex MAN today due to an IT glitch, only affecting easyJet.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-chaos-easyjet-flights-24071913

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

[QUOTE=SCFC1EP;11235960]

Is there really? My point is it was Manchester airport’s fault that they could not handle the aircraft when it arrive and passengers sat on it for almost an hour. Disgraceful to be honest and it’s happening often. I don’t care about the parking charge I was just giving it as an example to why it might leave a salty taste in the every day punter’s mouth.

Why, why , why does everybody appear to lay any delay at the feet of the airport? I am not, and never have been, an employee of the airport, however as an aviation enthusiast I am aware of how certain things work and A350Saltire so should you.

The delay that you refer to would appear to have been fairly in the ballpark of the airline's handling agent. Both the airport and the handling agents (who are responsible fofr the ground handling of aircraft and psssengers), are suffering from major staff shortages and, due to security requirements, it is not possible to recruit new staff and have them operational at the click of a finger.

Whilst I appreciate your frustration at having to pay additional car park charges can you please think carefully before pressing the "Submit" key on your device.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and I hope that you understand where I am coming from.

[sportzbar]

[QUOTE=A350Saltire;11235968]

Why, why , why does everybody appear to lay any delay at the feet of the airport? I am not, and never have been, an employee of the airport, however as an aviation enthusiast I am aware of how certain things work and A350Saltire so should you.

The delay that you refer to would appear to have been fairly in the ballpark of the airline's handling agent. Both the airport and the handling agents (who are responsible fofr the ground handling of aircraft and psssengers), are suffering from major staff shortages and, due to security requirements, it is not possible to recruit new staff and have them operational at the click of a finger.

Whilst I appreciate your frustration at having to pay additional car park charges can you please think carefully before pressing the "Submit" key on your device.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and I hope that you understand where I am coming from.

If only there was a like button on this site. Well done!

[ETOPS]

Got an early morning T1 departure this coming Tuesday (first flight for 3 years :eek: )

The MAN web site shows estimated waiting times at security.

Any chance of a pointer to this info - can't find it sorry to say....

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

Got an early morning T1 departure this coming Tuesday (first flight for 3 years :eek: )



Any chance of a pointer to this info - can't find it sorry to say....

Just go to the airport's home page - www.manchesterairport.co.uk - and you'll see the times towards the top of the screen, just under the 'content'
Hope that helps.

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

My turn for a question!

​A quick question for anybody who may be able to help. ​I've noticed whilst doing my daily logs that there have been no T3 flights since Saturday 21st May. Have they suspended the SOU route?

[ETOPS]

Tapadh leibh Sioltach Dubh Glas

Right in front of me :ugh:

[Simy]

Can anyone confirm if airside connections between T2 and T1/3 still requires a bus transfer? Has the process changed at all since the new T2 re-opened or is it still the same with bus and the Flight Transfer Centre?

IAH-MAN (SQ) and onto ABZ (LM codeshare). Thank you!

[Vokes55]

. Fed up of people moaning

Coming from the person whinging incessantly on the TUI thread

[ImPlaneCrazy]

Can anyone confirm if airside connections between T2 and T1/3 still requires a bus transfer? Has the process changed at all since the new T2 re-opened or is it still the same with bus and the Flight Transfer Centre?

IAH-MAN (SQ) and onto ABZ (LM codeshare). Thank you!

Bus transfers were paused during lockdown and are yet to resume. So no transfer facility as it stands.

[Mark J Bowcock]

[QUOTE=Vokes55;11236533]Coming from the person whinging incessantly on the TUI thread[/QUOTE

Ah OK we seem to have a tosser on this site! You need to get a life mate! I was on severely delayed TUI flight and was asking for advice!

[rkenyon]

The only tossers on here are ones that don’t know how to use the quote function properly :D

[Mark J Bowcock]

the only tossers on here are ones that don’t know how to use the quote function properly :d

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[Wimboy]

[QUOTE=SCFC1EP;11235960]

Is there really? My point is it was Manchester airport’s fault that they could not handle the aircraft when it arrive and passengers sat on it for almost an hour. Disgraceful to be honest and it’s happening often. I don’t care about the parking charge I was just giving it as an example to why it might leave a salty taste in the every day punter’s mouth.
Layby next to Styal prison or the Ship at Styal pub!

[HOVIS]

[QUOTE=A350Saltire;11235968]
Layby next to Styal prison or the Ship at Styal pub!
So how many cars could you fit there? Enough to accommodate the entire passenger load of a delayed 737/320 or just a handful?

[HOVIS]

[QUOTE=A350Saltire;11235944]

Every airport is the same, every car park is the same when you enter and leave the car park it will charge you the time you was there, a machine will not know why you was there or if a flight was late.or if the passenger takes longer to leave the airport
Simple when passengers have cleared passport control get them to call you then drive upto the pick up area it will still take the passenger 5 minutes to get there in that time you have plenty of time to drive last bit, does it matter if the passenger or driver has to wait two minutes either way
If you don't want to pay simple there's plenty of places to park stranger or no stranger to the area if you travelling by car easy to pull off the motorway one junction before and park nearby all other roads to the airport have plenty of places that you can park no double yellow lines and all within 5 drive
I've seen this in the US. Cars lining up on the hard shoulder before the airport junction. Dozens of them. The police turn up and move them on. The same would happen if random cars started parking down every back street and bus stop around Styal or Hale Barns. It is not a realistic solution.

[Wimboy]

[QUOTE=Wimboy;11236849]
So how many cars could you fit there? Enough to accommodate the entire passenger load of a delayed 737/320 or just a handful?

Wasn't advocating that as I'm sure most people knew
was a suggestion (and I have no affiliation with the pub!) :8

[TheFiddler]

[QUOTE=SCFC1EP;11235960]
I've seen this in the US. Cars lining up on the hard shoulder before the airport junction. Dozens of them. The police turn up and move them on. The same would happen if random cars started parking down every back street and bus stop around Styal or Hale Barns. It is not a realistic solution.

I've not. Almost every US airport I've been to has had a "cell lot" where you park up for free and await a call to collect. When you get the call you you leave the lot and go and pick up the pax. For free. Works great.

[ETOPS]

Remember seeing this at Philly and thinking why can't we do that?


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x576/image_a9e39da8a65f2fe60ac36b818a738783137ed75a.png

[ATNotts]

Remember seeing this at Philly and thinking why can't we do that?


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x576/image_a9e39da8a65f2fe60ac36b818a738783137ed75a.png
Because the UK is 'Rip off Britain!

[tictack67]

Remember seeing this at Philly and thinking why can't we do that?


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x576/image_a9e39da8a65f2fe60ac36b818a738783137ed75a.png

Where would you suggest near Manchester airport that has a vacant lot that would not require any revenue?

I totally agree the drop off fee £5 for 5 mins and £6 for 10 is horrendous..though I believe a free drop off at Jet1 park
​​​​
​​​​

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Philadelphia Airport like most major US airports is publically owned and so ironically in the home of capitalism isn't quite so nakedly corportate.
Manchester Airport on the othe hand is ....oh hang on a mo.....<leaves converstation>

[Grumpyone]

Philadelphia Airport like most major US airports is publically owned and so ironically in the home of capitalism isn't quite so nakedly corportate.
Manchester Airport on the othe hand is ....oh hang on a mo.....<leaves converstation>
Indeed. Haven't heard much about the airport shambles from the slippery Manchester mayor. Any problems with the local privately operated trains or buses and he's usually cranking up his publicity machine to claim all the problems would go away if brought back under public operation/control

[HOVIS]

Indeed. Haven't heard much about the airport shambles from the slippery Manchester mayor. Any problems with the local privately operated trains or buses and he's usually cranking up his publicity machine to claim all the problems would go away if brought back under public operation/control
MAG are not under public operation/control either. Ownership, yes, control, no.

[Curious Pax]

Indeed. Haven't heard much about the airport shambles from the slippery Manchester mayor. Any problems with the local privately operated trains or buses and he's usually cranking up his publicity machine to claim all the problems would go away if brought back under public operation/control

You weren’t paying attention when the issues with the security queues were at their peak. Plenty of local press coverage, plus a statement on the mayoral website: Burnham statement on airport problems (https://www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/news/statement-from-the-mayor-of-greater-manchester-andy-burnham-following-meeting-with-manchester-airport/)

The issues with security (which the airport had control over) seem to have quietened down in recent days, with the problems now centred round airlines and their handling agents. Not sure what realistically the airport can do about those, apart from give airline management an earful. Kicking a handling agent off site for poor performance would cause even more problems as a new agent, or another incumbent would need to recruit large numbers of staff at zero notice, leading to more chaos. Kicking an airline out may not even be legal - even if it was has anyone thought through the results of doing it to the 2 airlines that currently seem to have the most issues (TUI and Easyjet). Any other ideas? The obvious one is that all airlines add a £10 surcharge to all tickets with immediate effect so they can pay staff better, and afford increased airport usage charges, which would fix the recruitment problems for airline, agent and airport, but I suspect would go down on here like a bucket of cold sick!

[DP.]

Indeed. Haven't heard much about the airport shambles from the slippery Manchester mayor. Any problems with the local privately operated trains or buses and he's usually cranking up his publicity machine to claim all the problems would go away if brought back under public operation/control

The bus situation in Greater Manchester is a shambles, and I cannot see how it could possibly be any worse under his proposed franchising model. More local control and influence over trains in the region would also likely be a plus. The airport is a completely different beast - and is also less relevant (which is not to say that it is not important) to the daily lives of most people.

[cumbrianboy]

It's a bit disingenuous for the airport to blame the handling agents, I've seen first hand the car crash is the baggage system, it simply can not cope with the volume of bags. True, there is a staffing shortage but the reality is this all still stems back to MAG and a woeful underinvestment in the baggage system. They have focused on security as that is visible to the passengers, and more importantly to the media, but the reality is tens of thousands of passengers recently have arrived with no baggage because it's still at the baggage hall in Manchester.

This is not a handling agent issue and this is MAN shirking responsibility and trying to spin the attention away from themselves.

[SKOJB]

Have BACF finished on the LCY route?

[ETOPS]

Got an early morning T1 departure this coming Tuesday (first flight for 3 years https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/images/smilies/eek.gif )

Here’s how it went. Arrived at T1 ground floor check in/bag drop at 03.45 am for a 07.30 flight. All fairly calm but a lot of queuing and shuffling until we cleared security at 05.30. Queued for 20 minutes to get into the Eatery for breakfast which we finished at 06.45 just in time to walk to the gate. Slight delay in boarding so departed late +08m which felt like a major victory…
All in all we got through but not an enjoyable start to our break…

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

Here’s how it went. Arrived at T1 ground floor check in/bag drop at 03.45 am for a 07.30 flight. All fairly calm but a lot of queuing and shuffling until we cleared security at 05.30. Queued for 20 minutes to get into the Eatery for breakfast which we finished at 06.45 just in time to walk to the gate. Slight delay in boarding so departed late +08m which felt like a major victory…
All in all we got through but not an enjoyable start to our break…

A quick question for you. Since you appear to have arrived 3.45 hours before departure was checkin open for your flight or did you have to kick your heels until the normal opening time of checkin 3 hours prior to departure? Just interested.
Thanks in advance.

[DP.]

It's a bit disingenuous for the airport to blame the handling agents, I've seen first hand the car crash is the baggage system, it simply can not cope with the volume of bags. True, there is a staffing shortage but the reality is this all still stems back to MAG and a woeful underinvestment in the baggage system. They have focused on security as that is visible to the passengers, and more importantly to the media, but the reality is tens of thousands of passengers recently have arrived with no baggage because it's still at the baggage hall in Manchester.

This is not a handling agent issue and this is MAN shirking responsibility and trying to spin the attention away from themselves.

I can imagine the baggage system may have an impact, but I think it's a bold claim to suggest that it 'all stems back to MAG' and that it 'is not a handling agent issue' when we're seeing similar issues at other airports across the country, and the handling agents themselves acknowledge the staffing issues.

[Rutan16]

I can imagine the baggage system may have an impact, but I think it's a bold claim to suggest that it 'all stems back to MAG' and that it 'is not a handling agent issue' when we're seeing similar issues at other airports across the country, and the handling agents themselves acknowledge the staffing issues.

The entire industry is in collapse . Amsterdam and Dublin barely functioning,
The UK big four plus Birmingham all struggling at peaks
UK arrivals and passport holders causing havoc everywhere because of Brexit and ending of freedom of movement; EVERY lovely “blue” passport being stamped in and out -massive queues where prior there were none ( except perhaps when a Russian charter arrived)
Massive COVID lay offs post the ending of furlough, by airlines, handlers, fuellers, indeed MAG and OTHERS.
SOME continued isolation of positive cases.
Some countries in Far East retaining border entry restrictions.
Shed loads of people redeeming vouchers acquired over the last two years and all at the same time. Others in the millions trying to vanquish the effects of almost hibernation being enticed via stupidly low fares by the usual suspects (all in desperate need of cash flow revenues I might add)
Dreadful wages and a home office incapable of carrying out DBS checks for security critical roles within 8 to 10 week's
And you blame a few baggage handlers😠

[Rutan16]

Have BACF finished on the LCY route?

It was simply a positioning flight sold for a little revenue.

Currently BACF have no sudo charters from Manchester over the weekend so yes it’s suspended .May back in the winter for the ski season.
BACF weekend flights are operating from Edinburgh, and Southampton not sure if they have any from Birmingham at the moment
Quite a programme from Southampton at that !

[SWBKCB]

massive queues where prior there were none

Blinmy - no queues, where did you go on your jollies?

And you blame a few baggage handlers

The comments were about the baggage system.

Who is responsible for what now? In the olden days, handling agents weren't allowed to touch baggage once it was off the check-in belt and it was down to 'the council' until the baggage was on the a/c - although it was yjer responsibility of the handling agent to make sure it was all there and put in the right place.

What's the split now between MAG and the handling agents?

[Rutan16]

Blinmy - no queues, where did you go on your jollies?



The comments were about the baggage system.

Who is responsible for what now? In the olden days, handling agents weren't allowed to touch baggage once it was off the check-in belt and it was down to 'the council' until the baggage was on the a/c - although it was yjer responsibility of the handling agent to make sure it was all there and put in the right place.

What's the split now between MAG and the handling agents?


Prior to B UK passports didn’t need stamping . Today if you are in Palma or like me last week in Lisbon the UK arrivals were stretching the none Eu queues !

This is a B benefit 😉

As for the conveyors well in depends on maintenance and I have no doubt indeed I know for a fact it’s contracted !
Now I’ll agree if MAG haven’t issued a PO to the contractors and maintenance is due then there IS a problem sure.

However it’s it’s bodies at the end of the line either too few to load a container or too few to throw on to/off of a cart that’s the handlers issue !

[Downwind_Left]

It was simply a positioning flight sold for a little revenue.

Currently BACF have no sudo charters from Manchester over the weekend so yes it’s suspended .May back in the winter for the ski season.
BACF weekend flights are operating from Edinburgh, and Southampton not sure if they have any from Birmingham at the moment
Quite a programme from Southampton at that !

Aircraft in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Belfast City and Southampton at the weekend operating leisure flights. Plus one in Palma serving Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man.

[Rutan16]

Aircraft in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Belfast City and Southampton at the weekend operating leisure flights. Plus one in Palma serving Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man.

I only recalled those I knew of and was going to add Glasgow; didn’t know nor do I really care of the Palma sub base to be honest .

My post was just confirmatory of the suspension of the weekly Manchester rotation for the current season

[DP.]

And you blame a few baggage handlers😠

Where did I blame 'a few baggage handlers'? The only point I made was that the current TUI problems appear to be primarily as a result of a lack of staff at their handling agent to meet the required demand. I'm not sure how that is in any way controversial, or blaming the people on the ground actually doing the job.

[MANFOD]

Does anybody know which TUI flights from Manchester are cancelled today? I found a list of easyjet cancellations from LGW but so far have found nothing for TUI. It's supposedly 6 a day and as we're due to fly out next week I'm curious whether the cancellations are coming more from the big early morning peak or spread across later departures as well?

On reflection, I suppose it's possible TUI may have focused on the later flights for cancellation due back at MAN during the night, which would then give extra hours on the ground before the next day's early departures. It would provide flexibility for delays picked up on the morning departures.

[Espada III]

I have been through Manchester on at least five occasions this year. On one, I met someone senior in Security monitoring the situation 'on the ground' and I had a brief chat. Effectively he blamed the crisis on the passengers with too many failed bags and that Manchester is the best airport for cabin bag security in the world.

Well, as a colleague says to me "The best is the enemy of the good". Don't be the best, just do your job. The average passenger going through Manchester, especially at holiday time is a tourist. You can profile. A family with Mum, Dad and kids flying anywhere are less likely to be a risk than a sole passenger, especially someone in their late teens to 20s. They do seem to forget that the customer is very happy to spend money in Departures if only they could get there in plenty of time before the flight leaves. Surely they can afford to pay more to the security staff, which they will get back in increased sales in Departures,

Strange way to run a business...

[commit aviation]

New government and aviation working group to tackle disruption | Travel Weekly (https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air/new-government-and-aviation-working-group-to-tackle-disruption)

"As well as Airlines UK and the AOA, the meeting was attended by representatives from airports (Bristol, Birmingham, Gatwick, London City, Luton and Newcastle), airlines (British Airways, easyJet, Jet2, Loganair, Tui Airways and Virgin Atlantic), aviation bodies (Civil Aviation Authority and International Air Transportation Association) and ground handlers (DHL Ground Handling and Swissport)."

No MAG Airport representation it would appear. Not invited or chose not to attend?

[Rutan16]

Probably not invited after all Grant has previous with Bristol in particular (financial I might add) and was implicated in the stupid COVID19 award to that airport as an official point of entry from Red listed countries when none were even remotely connected !

Absence of HAL and MAG Groups says all you need to know about this “working Group” through at least relevant airlines were apparently present .

The AOA are a steering body mainly for the smaller airports and indeed some that have no regular services at all - Its a membership organisation with far to close ties to the government.
Members include those well respected holiday hub airports Farnborough, Biggin Hill, Fairoaks , and even Coventry
Through coincidentally they do donate to the Conservative and Unionists Party . Baroness McGregor- Smith of Mitie FM fame is head and somewhat partisan with other government roles.

I am less than convinced this will achieve anything to be honest other than a few meals and further expense claims sent to the treasury

[ETOPS]

3.45 hours before departure was checkin open for your flight or did you have to kick your heels

Already open and in full swing - it took us 20 minutes to get to the automated bag drop before looping round to start the security queue

[WestofEMA]

This was sent to me today by a friend. Flight cancellations. I'm not sure it is genuine, but looks it. Hope this helps some.
https://scontent.fman4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/282020259_1424643774665620_1691164881279420103_n.jpg?_nc_cat =102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=Hq3WRKXUwHYAX_gfcGe&_nc_ht=scontent.fman4-1.fna&oh=00_AT_sc6Ddelqfel1VuSvoohxoozENVxwFNu2QhkJqCei-qA&oe=629D0922

[MANFOD]

WestofEMA, Many thanks for that. Much appreciated. Have sent you a PM

[Mark J Bowcock]

This was sent to me today by a friend. Flight cancellations. I'm not sure it is genuine, but looks it. Hope this helps some.
https://scontent.fman4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/282020259_1424643774665620_1691164881279420103_n.jpg?_nc_cat =102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=Hq3WRKXUwHYAX_gfcGe&_nc_ht=scontent.fman4-1.fna&oh=00_AT_sc6Ddelqfel1VuSvoohxoozENVxwFNu2QhkJqCei-qA&oe=629D0922

absolutely disgraceful!

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

Very useful - thank you for sharing.

[MANFOD]

Looking at the list for today, it was 3 early departures cancelled at 06.05; 06.15; & 07.10 and 3 early evening flights between 18.25 and 18.55.

[Groundloop]

absolutely disgraceful!

Why? Do you have inside knowledge of why TUI have had to take this drastic action?

[Mark J Bowcock]

Why? Do you have inside knowledge of why TUI have had to take this drastic action?

No I don’t but cancelling peoples flights last minute is disgraceful! Next question?

[Vokes55]

No I don’t but cancelling peoples flights last minute is disgraceful! Next question?

The whinging continues. The whole point of the month of cancellations is that it isn’t last minute.

[CMM]

It would be appreciated if you could all grow up and share news about the airport, rather than the pathetic my dad is better than your dad routine.

[Rutan16]

It would be appreciated if you could all grow up and share news about the airport, rather than the pathetic my dad is better than your dad routine.

Spot on 👍

We have differences of opinion and a range of in depth contributions, many have decades of industry experience and some have financial regulatory and business expertise.
All are valid 👍

You have the options to reply with comment to the thread , raise a new post with new items of relevance ( in this case to Manchester Airport) or simply to ignore😄

However attacking anyone directly IS UNACCEPTABLE

[MANFOD]

Yes, let's keep it to civilised discussion and informative posts.

I've spotted TOM 2508 to CHQ (Chania) on FR24 a few minutes ago just east of Dubrovnik, but this is on the list of cancelled flights. Presumably TUI are sending a/c out empty to bring folk home for certain destinations where there are a limited number of flights and other options.

[CabinCrewe]

Frustrated pax climbing through the baggage carousel curtain to look for their own bags after 3.5hr delays now… armed police and allsorts… so much for improving and only June… #chaos

[SALENO]

Yes, let's keep it to civilised discussion and informative posts.

I've spotted TOM 2508 to CHQ (Chania) on FR24 a few minutes ago just east of Dubrovnik, but this is on the list of cancelled flights. Presumably TUI are sending a/c out empty to bring folk home for certain destinations where there are a limited number of flights and other options.
We were on the return flight TOM 2509 and it was flown by a Privilege Style B757. I did also contact TUI whilst in resort who advise our flight would be operating as planned. Turned out well and on time and really efficient crew

[ZFT]

Flying BA to LHR in a couple of weeks What is a sensible check in time? Is 2 hours sufficient? I'm in no great panic as overnighting at Heathrow before final leg.

[CabinCrewe]

Flying BA to LHR in a couple of weeks What is a sensible check in time? Is 2 hours sufficient? I'm in no great panic as overnighting at Heathrow before final leg.
Suspect thats going to be variable depending in day of week and time of flight esp assuming you're checking in luggage…

[ZFT]

Suspect thats going to be variable depending in day of week and time of flight esp assuming you're checking in luggage…

Wednesday 1300 with checked bags

[Mr Mac]

Came out today to Munich with no issue through T1 with LH. I maybe travelling through T2 with Mrs Mac on 16/6 down to Palma with Jet 2 as I will be in UK next week rather than Germany, though that may change. One of UK staff travelled out to Greece last week with them had no issues either way.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[pwalhx]

I also flew out of T1 to Munich with LH last week without issue, and the return from Berlin, although 15 hours late (due to missing the night time curfew in Berlin) was uneventful on arrival and through quickly.

May interest you there were delays in Berlin due to shortage of staff and EasyJet had cancelled 7 flights on Saturday morning out of Berlin

[Gordon_uk3]

Does anyone know if Aer lingus offer night before baggage drop off at Manchester?

[DomyDom]

Ryanair launch Manchester to Podgorica, Montenegro twice weekly on Thursdays and Sundays from 30th October 🙂

[Mr A Tis]

The new MD at Manchester is named as Chris Woodroffe, previously COO of Gatwick
https://marketingstockport.co.uk/news/new-managing-director-appointed-at-manchester-airport/

Hope that Chris is not just the next fall guy. The problems at MAN, IMHO, are a bit higher up than MD level.

[roverman]

The new MD at Manchester is named as Chris Woodroffe, previously COO of Gatwick
https://marketingstockport.co.uk/news/new-managing-director-appointed-at-manchester-airport/

Hope that Chris is not just the next fall guy. The problems at MAN, IMHO, are a bit higher up than MD level.

You are correct, just like Manchester United F.C.- a new manager alone will not solve the endemic faults which lie at the core of mediocrity.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Mr Woodroffe's success will be dependent on coaxing some serious investment cash out of the notoriously miserly Charlie Cornish. And - yes - I know that money is especially tight right now. But pointing at T2's (super-value-engineered) enhancements isn't sufficient. A very substantial proportion (over half?) of MAN's passengers still use T1 and T3 and will continue to do so for some considerable time yet. What has been spent on them in the last decade? This neglect can't continue. Those terminals need a major refresh: working lifts, escalators, travelators. Regularly cleaned toilets with functioning locks. Seating. These things shouldn't break the bank, but Cornish's regime has resisted spending on them anyway. The interminable trudge from T3 to T2 over an entirely shut-down sequence of dead travelators is an embarrassment and a disgrace. How are older or mobility-impaired customers with luggage supposed to cope with this? There should be a free inter-terminals shuttle bus running via the Ground Transport Interchange until they are fixed or replaced.

Facilities for domestic passengers need to be moved IMMEDIATELY to a dedicated section of T2 with their own security channel. Years of excuses and prevarication have killed the domestic market at MAN for routes which compete with road and rail. If you're needing to travel from Manchester to Southampton, do you expect to join a security queue of thousands of Ryanair passengers who have been advised to turn up with three hours to spare? No wonder this once core route is down to a single daily 29-seater which gets cancelled more often than not. Exeter has failed already. Edinburgh, Glasgow, Southend. MAN's domestic flight arrangements are a non-starter, and we're seeing overland routes failing in real time because of this abject neglect. Domestic carriers can't carry the financial hit this 'allow three hours' chaos invites. And it was a painfully easy problem to identify. Will domestic carriers return once they've given up on MAN's dysfunctional arrangements for them? MAN needs their connectivity to support long-haul success, so perhaps they should sort out the problem RIGHT NOW, because significant damage has already been done. Movable future timeframes simply don't cut it. Jam tomorrow, but tomorrow never comes. Giving domestic flights their own dedicated facility in T2 should be THE most pressing priority to sort out. Top of the pile.

Finally, but not least, the Cornish regime's managed destruction of MAN's cargo capability needs to be reversed. Mr Woodruffe: welcome to the busiest airport in Europe not to have a hi-lo available on site, or a team trained to operate it. I would call that 'third-world', but it wouldn't be fair on the many third-world airports which do have ample hi-los and staff to operate them.

T2's enhancements represent the kind of progress we need to see, though final completion is a long way off. So those 50%+ of MAN's customers using the rest of the campus can't continue to be disregarded indefinitely. T1 and T3 are part of the "Manchester experience" too.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

My first flight was to the then new T1 Domestic, a haven of tranquility from a different age. Most were suited and booted. The bottom line is that Finance would turn round and point out the ROI on a dedicated facility for domestic was zero, indeed it would be a cost. They calculate, correctly, that for their business model to work given the current charging regime, they need to offset losses via driving footfall into retail and charging rent and/or taking a % cut on profit from retail tenants. Suggesting that this footfall is reduced isn't, pardon the pun, going to fly. They need to continue to drive volume through the shops and if that means a few less Q400s and ATRs then "Climate Emergency" take the train and make way for 189 Ryanair spenders. I get what you mean, but I can't see how it would make them any more money and that's the end of it if it won't. The only way to balance this out would be to hike user charges for domestic short haul and that's not a winning formula for the customer either.

CX Customer Experience isn't front and centre for MAG as they've got a critical mass in market and no direct competitor locally.

[SWBKCB]

If you're needing to travel from Manchester to Southampton, do you expect to join a security queue of thousands of Ryanair passengers who have been advised to turn up with three hours to spare?

Does anywhere have seperate facilities for domestic passengers anymore? The answer is to get rid of the queues and improve the experience for everybody.

[AndrewH52]

I suspect that you will see minimal investment in T1 as each £ spent on it is a £ that can’t be spent finishing the T2 transformation programme - which does need to be the absolute priority from an infrastructure perspective. Don’t forget T1 was meant to have closed permanently by now so they will be reluctant to throw money at an asset they are going to demolish.

Adding a dedicated domestic facility would also likely make the situation worse not better when they’re struggling to staff current operations.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Some misunderstanding here. I do NOT propose that MAG should build a seperate domestic terminal. From the outset of the TP (T2), it was envisaged that domestic flights would move to a dedicated section of that terminal, ideally located such that transfers within T2 and across to the legacy campus would be relatively seemless. A dedicated security channel within the existing set-up should also be an attainable objective. I'm asking them to prioritise an element of the existing T2 plan which seems to get pushed back indefinitely as if it were of no consequence. And we're not just talking about domestic business itself ... MAN saw a good deal of domestic to long-haul (and European) interline upto 2019. That underpins the viability of prestige long-haul operations as well.

I'm not suggesting that MAG needs to reinvent the wheel. Just do what they said they were going to do all along without yet more delay.

As for not spending more money on T1/T3, that is not a practical proposition if half the airport's customers are going to be using those facilities for years to come. If they were state-of-the-art already, one could pare spending back a bit. But they've had precious little invested in them for a decade now and it shows. We have to acknowledge that the replacement date for T1 in particular continues to slip, and I suspect that it will be with us for quite some time yet. So all of it's moving parts need to work. Lifts, escalators, travelators, toilets, toilet doors. All of it.

A little straw poll. How long do you think it will be before T1 really closes? Two years? Five years? Ten or more? Do you justify not maintaining your home for a decade because you plan to replace it in afew years' time? With millions of passenger journeys to support each year, you can't continue to do that with the tired structure that is T1.

[UnderASouthernSky]

I was recently told by a senior airline manager who operates at MAN that T2 has no further capacity available at busy periods until the baggage system upgrade works are completed... which is apparently why Jet2 have had to split between terminals. This also means no airline can move (domestic or otherwise) from T1/T3 to T2 until capacity permits.
No idea if correct, but it was news to me.

[Manchester Exile]

I can't see T1 closing in the next five years, Ozzy. I reckon at least 7-10 before they shut it down. I understand the next T2 pier won't be completed for another three years, and they'll likely require a 3rd T2 pier to be operational before considering the shutdown of T1.

If I recall correctly, Piers B and C from T1 will remain operational and connected to the new T2, even after the T1 decommissioning. Both of those piers are in dire need of a refresh, particularly pier B which is now 60 years old.

[Mr A Tis]

Can't see T1 being closed within the next decade, so they will have to spend some pennies on it.
As Ozzy says, basic stuff is being ignored throughout the whole estate. Walkways, escalators, toilet doors, PIDs in the bus station. scruffy dirty food outlets (lack of cleaners), no soap in dispensers etc etc.
No wonder so many of the shiny new check ins in T2 are not being used if the baggage system cant cope.
As for domestics, an interim could be done in the T1 downstairs check in. Moving Aurigny, Eastern, Loganair, BA, easyJet (doms) Aer Lingus (Eire & NI) to one place & it would have its own security channel. Surely a minimum cost solution. Sort out the T2 baggage issues & get Jet 2 back to T2 in full.
The check in queues & associated bad press has killed the domestics, especially Eastern on the Southampton. From the Flybe 6 a day, we now have Eastern advertising twice daily AT72 but in reality it is often downgraded to a once daily Jetstream & even that is often cancelled. The competition is a 4.5 hour train journey, costing around £75-£100 each way standard class (unless you book weeks/ months in advance). A 40 minute flight for the same price as a cross country packed train should be a winner, but who would want to endure the current airport experience mixed in with thousands of Ryanair leisure pax arriving sometimes 4 hours before their flights. The pax (inc me) have given up trying to fly to Southampton anymore.

[HOVIS]

All the comms infrastructure runs through T1. Power, telephone lines, the lot. Knocking it down is a huge undertaking.

[MANFAN]

I can't see T1 closing in the next five years, Ozzy. I reckon at least 7-10 before they shut it down. I understand the next T2 pier won't be completed for another three years, and they'll likely require a 3rd T2 pier to be operational before considering the shutdown of T1.

If I recall correctly, Piers B and C from T1 will remain operational and connected to the new T2, even after the T1 decommissioning. Both of those piers are in dire need of a refresh, particularly pier B which is now 60 years old.

Yes, this is my understanding as well.
Initially there were meant to be 4 piers in total built, pre covid the 4th pier was put on hold indefinitely.
So since then (2018/2019?) the plan was always to build the 3 piers and then close T1. However, we know with covid everything is now delayed.
I believe the 2nd pier will be open by summer 2025 and the 3rd pier by 2027.
At the same time the legacy T2 refurb is due to start later this year and be complete by 2024.

So my estimate would be T1 is going to be operationally until at least 2027. In that time a refurb of Piers B & C is desperately needed! Both the interior and exterior. There has to be funds made available for this, because remember the closure of T1 eventually does not also mean the closure of the T1 Piers...there has to be a justification for this investment given the future timeline of the overall TP.

Other areas of the TP also include the new dual taxiway system between taxiway Alpha and the T2 western apron. I don't know when this is re-starting, but again to reduce bottlenecks within the taxiways systems and therefore preventing long holding of aircraft, this needs to be started again.
I believe the end of Pier C (Gates 29/31/32) would be demolished to make way for part of this new taxiway system.

[roverman]

T1 will probably match Her Majesty in reaching a platinum jubilee, ten years from now. One of the underlying premises of the MAN-TP business case was to shut down T1 with its associated operating cost. However that was before the logistics were fully examined. So much of the T1/T3 combo is umbilically linked, making it especially difficult to simply isolate and decommission T1. I'm two years out of MAG now and so not privy to the latest thinking but I know there's no easy solution to this one.

[MANFOD]

Just a report on our experience at MAN with TUI flights to Palma and return.
Departure was on Monday 6th June with an SDT of 06.30.
The check-in queue in T2 extended back some distance into the Skylink and the whole process took exactly an hour.
It appeared that only one of the standard desks was in use and that for premium passengers. For the rest, as you emerged from the 9 'lanes' holding the queues, there were 3 parts to the process. Initially 4 or 5 staff were waiting to check passports and Covid passes as it was to Spain. Then it was round to the next section to the self check-in machines where a member of staff came to assist. Bags weighed and PMI stickers attached. Finally, it was a short 4 or 5 yard walk to place cases on a belt.
Security queues extended back into the main T2X and round into the next zone - F I think. However, it moved fairly steadily and the process took 50 minutes. From what I could see, 5 lanes were open, including 1 & 2 which I assumed were fast track, plus 4, 7 and 8. There was no shouting, pushing or aggro. and the staff we encountered were pleasant and helpful.
The aircraft pushed back at 07.20, 50 minutes late, and the pilot in apologising for the delay, mentioned the Cleaners hadn't turned up when they should.
So, in normal circumstances, those waiting times would be far from acceptable, but in the current climate were better than some that have been reported and less than we feared.
Just to add that it took 75 minutes for our cases to arrive after parking at an airbridge stand at Palma.

The return yesterday, the 13th, required no complaints. Pushed back at PMI on the dot at 19.20 their time, arrived on stand 104 at T2X 3 minutes early at 20.57. It's a fair walk even from that stand to Border Control but the 2 sections of travellator were working! Plenty of e-gates open with no delays and the first cases came through in 30 minutes from on stand, our own 5 minutes or so later. I accept it was probably a good time of the evening to arrive, not having the surge that can happen at periods between 22.00 and 02.00.

[Danny G]

We are just back from 2 weeks in Cancun and looking at wwhat the airport is directly responsable for I thought they did very well
Out on 31st May from terminal 2 and there were no security queue. through immigration this morning in 5 minutes so very good. As for the rest of the trip with TUI it was a bit of a nightmare but that was the handling agents fault not the airports.

[PQC]

T1 will probably match Her Majesty in reaching a platinum jubilee, ten years from now. One of the underlying premises of the MAN-TP business case was to shut down T1 with its associated operating cost. However that was before the logistics were fully examined. So much of the T1/T3 combo is umbilically linked, making it especially difficult to simply isolate and decommission T1. I'm two years out of MAG now and so not privy to the latest thinking but I know there's no easy solution to this one.

Like you Roverman, I've been out of the business for approaching 2 years now myself but like you I still have a few contacts who keep me up to speed with developments. And in relation to T1, there appears to be diddly-squat in the current MAG Capital Plan.It all seems to be about MANTP again

And as you and others say, given the vital kit that passes through it to demolish it is going to be one hell of a challenge.

I'm with you. I think that come 2032 T1 will 'celebrating its Platinum Jubilee - if 'celebrate' is the right word to use. You never know, by then it could have received listed building ststus or been declared an ancient monument!

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Gatwick South was opened in 1958, it is today one of the best terminals in the UK.
Prestwick's terminal dates from 1964, neglected and to some degree, dated.
Glasgow's terminal opened in 1966, has IMHO the best security hall in the country, and does the job well with two airbridge served piers and a low cost one.
Edinburgh dates from 1977 and has been built out and modernised.

Now Manchester T1 dates from 1962, so what's happened is a neglect and de-investment based upon an end of life that has been extended. Older, contemporary options are in better condition due to continued investment. I get that end of life is in the plan, but to not invest in the basics just means the CX collapses even further. Comparatively, there are too many airports who manage to deliver the basics better, one of which is fellow MAG member, Stansted.

[SCFC1EP]

Just back from Cancun out on 29th May, started night before went down at around 7pm to drop bags off, considering there was no TUI flights due out in evening/night, everyone else had similar ideas and 80 minutes to check in TUI staffing problems apparently they stopped drop off a day or two later.
Following morning returned to T2 just after 8am for 1050 flight straight through security around 15 minutes all ok
into new food court area and a drink couple of queues were starting at various eating places but still managed a few beers still ok
TUI flight was already in it arrived the night before from Amman on maintance so should be no issues right ? wrong 3 hr 30 min delay we were all made to board the aircraft just after our departure time at 1050hrs we was one of the last to get on the bus as we were on T2 remote, still no issue however there was congestion as the 0755 TUI Heraklion flight was from same gate and they were getting passengers back off the plane after they had been sat on it for hours 200 unhappy passengers there, well we were all on the flight for around 3 hrs sat on the tarmac had not moved a inch, captain was very apologetic and saying we were awaiting the baggage to be loaded,stewardess were also apologetic saying they could not understand why they loaded passengers knowing there would be a delay so a 9hr+ flight was 12+ servisair at fault
Returned 14 days later flight waslate arriving into Cancun from Manchester due to problems associated with Manchester airport, but a quick turn around for a b789 and good headwind got us back in Manchester just 60 minutes late,all good, no we are in Manchester we get on gate and another 15 minutes waiting for you guessed it servisair to arrive to operate the airbridge.
Parked on the old T2 side and not nice inside but as soon you get into T2 at passport it's much more pleasent and does seem alot more spacious than the old T2 passport control took around 5-10 minutes all good
Baggage oh dear back to servisair again took a hour before first bags came on belt and looking around in baggage hall the amount of lost luggage was very alarming, even on our carousel there was 3 cases going round destination was Doha why are they even on arrivals carousel these were luggage departing from Manchester
So all in all servisair was the main reason for all delays, along with staff shortage night before from TUI, so not a good experience but it's not directly Manchester airports fault but unfortunitly the public/customer will only see it's the airport fault, we on here understand the issues more than the general public they just see Manchester Airport, so yes in away Manchester Airport do need to get a grip with handling agents/airlines and other contractors, if they do not meet the high standards they should not be allowed to operate, fine the company, sanction them, do something don't just let them work at third world standards, which then is bringing the airport down, yes Manchester Airport has got it;s own problems lack of investment we all agree there but theres other ways as well to improve and get a better service

[The96er]

By Servisair, you mean Swissport.

[MANFAN]

By Servisair, you mean Swissport.

I was about to say the same thing…thought we were back in the 90’s for a moment!

[Danny G]

Ahh Servisair, if only. We had similar issues. We departed to Cancun 0n 31st May same aircraft as above SE-RFZ, the flight on 30th was almost cancelled due to Swissport losing the luggage (we knew people on the flight) so it departed 6 hours or so late. TUI knew it was going to be delayed as it was showing on our departure the following day but insisted we still checked in at the appointed time (6.30am). On arrival at T2 the check in looked very quiet until on of the TUI reps pointed us downstairs to the lower level check in which was bedlam. It took us one hour 40 mins to check in as priority club, for others it was 3 hours+
Security was a breeze, no queuing at all. Finally departed at 6pm meaining we had been at the airport for 11 hours with no need to be there. Coming back we were delayed again by 1 hour 30 mins, Cancun airport was a breath of fresh air, check in 5 mins and security 5 mins. On return to MAN we had to sit for 10 mins while someone activated the stand and another 15 mins for them to connect the airbridge. Immigration was empty and our bags came through after a 30 minute wait so no real complaints there.
Not sure what I think of the new T2 area, I was surprised you are not able to walk the length of the terminal, does anyone know if that will be possible when complete.

[Mr Mac]

Well came in T1 this morning with LH from Munich with no issues, but no checked luggage. Outbound T2 to Palma with Jet 2 at 6.30 Friday, so my first experience of T2 in a while, with checked bags, though do have Fast Track, and a more tourist oriented carrier, so will report back Friday if we get to Deia our final destination.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[OzzyOzBorn]

I was surprised you are not able to walk the length of the terminal, does anyone know if that will be possible when complete.

You actually can walk the full length of T2, but the legacy gates are on a lower level, so to access these one is routed down an escalator from the main lounge - the same one you use if headed for the bussing lounge. From there one follows a corridor passing abeam the security area, then into the concourse with the original T2 gates. When I was there, very few retail and catering options were available in that old section - it seems to be used for boarding flights only. A couple of vending machines, maybe?

For the new build gates at the opposite end of T2, you can follow the corridor from the main concourse to the most distant pier which hosts the 'A' gates.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

When I was there, very few retail and catering options were available

There are none at all down there.

[eye2eye5]

Mr Mac, I don’t think it reasonable to describe cabin crew as “quite old, but competent “. The days of employing trolley dollies to be disposed of at the age of 30 are long gone. I would much rather have cabin crew who know their job and who provide an efficient and friendly service than be purely judged on looks. Some are young and fantastic, some are older and fantastic, it should be entirely down to ability and not age. Says a 67 year old poster………

[MARKEYD]

Without hijacking the thread I thought exactly the same about the comment about
“ the cabin crew appeared quite old though “

Not quite sure what that is supposed to mean but as a crew member aged 58 I know nearly everyone onboard appreciates the maturity and professionalism we give rather than some ex 21 year old “ love island “ contestant
I will leave it at that ….

[bobradamus]

The comment on age was not in any way meant to be demeaning to the crew, it was an observation. The crew appeared to be more elderly and a little larger in the BMI than I have experienced on the other carriers I use on a regular basis which are LH/EK/SQ. I am quite aware that the Trolly Dolly days are over and indeed did think before I posted this that I would get some feedback on

As for T2 we left from on of the old gates which you get to by going around the back of security and as Jonny Fat Pants says there is nothing down there except a long walk.

cheers
Mr Mac

Wow, just wow.

[P330]

The comment on age was not in any way meant to be demeaning to the crew, it was an observation. The crew appeared to be more elderly and a little larger in the BMI than I have experienced on the other carriers I use on a regular basis which are LH/EK/SQ. I am quite aware that the Trolly Dolly days are over and indeed did think before I posted this that I would get some feedback on

As for T2 we left from on of the old gates which you get to by going around the back of security and as Jonny Fat Pants says there is nothing down there except a long walk.

cheers
Mr Mac

Always enjoy reading your posts and informed observations, but this one is probably best deleted. Yes, it’s just an observation, but it’s an entirely irrelevant and inappropriate one.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Mr Mac, I don’t think it reasonable to describe cabin crew as “quite old, but competent “. The days of employing trolley dollies to be disposed of at the age of 30 are long gone. I would much rather have cabin crew who know their job and who provide an efficient and friendly service than be purely judged on looks. Some are young and fantastic, some are older and fantastic, it should be entirely down to ability and not age. Says a 67 year old poster………
They SHOULD be gone, but that's EXACTLY what airlines aim for. Wear out the expensive seniors and replace them with sexy eye candy who want to see the world for a few years before moving on. BA's Mixed Fleet's business model is EXACTLY that, cabin crew are seen as glorified Baristas, in 2022.

[MARKEYD]

Jesus , some ridiculous posts here , i hope they are not on any of my flights in the near future
Incredibly disappointing posts

[techair]

This forum has really plumbed new depths with MARKEYDs last disgraceful post. Time for a new forum for me.

[VickersVicount]

Time for a new forum for me.
They all say that….

[easyflyer83]

There’s some particularly bad comments on here guys.

“old but competent” - aside from the age observation, you aren’t qualified to assess how competent they are. You can however assess the service you received.

The comment about BMI - Jeez, keep digging.

And Skipness, as someone who usually values your posts, I’m offended at your comment about glorified baristas.

BA crew (mixed fleet no longer exists) may not be in it for the long run these days, and perhaps that’s what BA wants, but there’s no evidence that they are seen as ‘glorified baristas’.

At my base, at my carrier, we have a vast spectrum of people. We have lots of older crew who have worked at the likes of BA, VS, EK, EY, BY. Equally we have a lot of young crew of all shapes and sizes and in MAN particularly, we have around 40% male with all male crews not uncommon.

[Jamesair1]

I have nothing but praise for the mixed age cabin crew on several BA flights recently...all charming, efficient and friendly throughout the mainly full flights.... even while trying to serve a large business class section with a meal on a flight to LCY....which must be no easy task with the limited facilities aboard the E190 aircraft.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

easyflyer83 apologies, let me be clearer. Management sees cabin crew as glorfied baristas, not that they are in any way. They perform a cricual safety function and work insane hours. My point is airline management, from Laker to Branson et al see them as easily replaced disposable transients. Recent events have proven that to be wrong.

[forbesd]

For the sake of balance, I just wanted to add our experience on Monday morning. We arrived at the T1 drop off zone upstairs at 0935, checked in at Jet2 check in downstairs, through secutity and were in our seats by the window in Giraffe by 1000. Ok this is not the early morning wave but it is entirely acceptable. Staff were pleasant, frankly it was the passengers who were downright rude at times.
I took some time to see what was causing the delays at security. There were a reasonable number of lanes open but the number of bags needing personal review was much higher than usual. I was astonished to see that the biggest problem was fluids, gels, lotions etc.which had not been separated from other hand baggage before scanning. The rules about liquids have been in place since 9/11 some 20 years ago so there is no excuse. Those whose hand luggage needed reviewing will have been delayed.

[easyflyer83]

For the sake of balance, I just wanted to add our experience on Monday morning. We arrived at the T1 drop off zone upstairs at 0935, checked in at Jet2 check in downstairs, through secutity and were in our seats by the window in Giraffe by 1000. Ok this is not the early morning wave but it is entirely acceptable. Staff were pleasant, frankly it was the passengers who were downright rude at times.
I took some time to see what was causing the delays at security. There were a reasonable number of lanes open but the number of bags needing personal review was much higher than usual. I was astonished to see that the biggest problem was fluids, gels, lotions etc.which had not been separated from other hand baggage before scanning. The rules about liquids have been in place since 9/11 some 20 years ago so there is no excuse. Those whose hand luggage needed reviewing will have been delayed.

To be exact, the liquids rule came in in late summer 2006.

[ian_h1]

For the sake of balance, I just wanted to add our experience on Monday morning. We arrived at the T1 drop off zone upstairs at 0935, checked in at Jet2 check in downstairs, through secutity and were in our seats by the window in Giraffe by 1000. Ok this is not the early morning wave but it is entirely acceptable. Staff were pleasant, frankly it was the passengers who were downright rude at times.
I took some time to see what was causing the delays at security. There were a reasonable number of lanes open but the number of bags needing personal review was much higher than usual. I was astonished to see that the biggest problem was fluids, gels, lotions etc.which had not been separated from other hand baggage before scanning. The rules about liquids have been in place since 9/11 some 20 years ago so there is no excuse. Those whose hand luggage needed reviewing will have been delayed.

To be fair MAG *could* invest in the latest technology that doesn't need liquids pastes and gels separating, and this would presumably result in fewer bag checks although from speaking to family members who only travel infrequently that they get confused as at some airports they are in and others they are out - a simple solution would be to pay attention and read the ample signage of course.

[AndrewH52]

I believe their new scanners have that capability however it remains a DfT requirement for liquids to be presented at the security screening point.

[Mr A Tis]

I must be unlucky as I’ve never achieved security clearing less than 30 minutes. Today T1B I thought 11am would be off peak, but it took me 40 minutes to clear through that sweat box of T1B today, Thursday.
Hardly any free seats in the Terminal, people sat on floors eating chips.
The staff were friendly & people were being pushed from T1 to T1B which only had 3 lanes open.

Unable to get into any lounges with passes as “full to capacity” only pre books allowed.
The whole process grim & unpleasant.

On the bag scanning, I use the same bag with the same benign contents everywhere. It has never been pulled for secondary anywhere in the world, except MAN - it’s 50/50 it gets stopped - today was a lucky day in that respect

[AirLCY]

I believe their new scanners have that capability however it remains a DfT requirement for liquids to be presented at the security screening point.

it doesn’t at other airports using the latest technology, including a few lanes at LHR and even SEN

[BTNH]

It is a numbers game and every now and then bags get pulled for secondary screening.

[rkenyon]

I must be unlucky as I’ve never achieved security clearing less than 30 minutes.

You must be the unluckiest person in the world...

In my ~300 flights from MAN, I'd say 90% were < 10 minutes. The rest between 10 and 20 minutes.

The only time I can recall it being longer was about 10 years ago on a MAN-DXB flight just before Christmas. The queue in T1 was huge, and took around an hour.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

It is a numbers game and every now and then bags get pulled for secondary screening.
Wrong, wrong, wrong! MAN has an incredibly high secondary screening rate, partly poor technology, partly people
leaving in liquids and mainly staff being terrified of the sack. It is a VERY particular airport that skews the numbers game enormously.

[Rutan16]

Wrong, wrong, wrong! MAN has an incredibly high secondary screening rate, partly poor technology, partly people leaving in liquids and mainly staff being terrified of the sack. It is a VERY particular airport that skews the numbers game enormously.

There are many and varied issues round liquids imho. Including the cosmetics industries - you would think they would by now be promoting the smaller aerosols , however the rule is pretty pathetic anyway indeed the 100mils is an arbitrary number not set by science , more rather risk assessors .

As for Manchester truth be known ; is it not the profile of tourists going to the beach and general levels of ignorance (Not in a disrespectful way) that delivers such high rate failures

The fact that there have never been an interception of a potential chemical bomb Anywhere suggests the genuine risk threat to be Infinitesimally small.

Your comment on employment risk ( low pay contract even agency) is however somewhat valid

[SWBKCB]

The fact that there have never been an interception of a potential chemical bomb Anywhere suggests the genuine risk threat to be Infinitesimally small.

Or the deterrent effect is very effective!

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

As for Manchester truth be known ; is it not the profile of tourists going to the beach and general levels of ignorance (Not in a disrespectful way) that delivers such high rate failures
Given LGW which has a similar high % of outbound Brits off on hols to sunspots and has some of the most effecient security in the UK, I would say not. LGW, EDI, GLA, LHR all have new security halls. Does the T2 rebuild still use the old security hall and scanners?

[CabinCrewe]

GLA security upgrade as part of terminal extension was in 2008 which might be stretching definition of *new"

[Rutan16]

Or the deterrent effect is very effective!

I couldn’t possibly say and I am not arguing for no control measures either !

Through much indeed most of the current measures are largely for show.

Many many holes remain in security where there is the potential for much higher risk.

There is literally no evidence of a viable explosive being constructed from 120mill of two everyday cosmetic jells mixed in a toilet the size of a matchbox.

And indeed removal and incinerating Shannon’s Amber Soleil or Granny’s bottle of Chanel No5 without knowledge of testing or otherwise inspection methods via specific designed and subject to independent rigour systems and practices, doesn’t even provide useful data on the effective deterrence or otherwise .

The measure is half cock period and classic of political legislation developed on the hop.

[Rutan16]

Given LGW which has a similar high % of outbound Brits off on hols to sunspots and has some of the most effecient security in the UK, I would say not. LGW, EDI, GLA, LHR all have new security halls. Does the T2 rebuild still use the old security hall and scanners?

Last part don’t know haven’t use T2 at Manchester for some years ( last time was to Hong Kong)

Yet Gatwick also has departure security issues also related to jells and potions!

I am far from supportive of the Manchester Security operation indeed if you go back a few months you will find I advocated for the replacement of the MAG Group head of security on account of their zealous delivery in these very matters.

And also said and confirmed above that the culture and reward mechanisms for security staff at MAG appear to suck !

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

GLA security upgrade as part of terminal extension was in 2008 which might be stretching definition of *new"
Wow that long ago? Am getting old(er) LOL! In fairness though, it was a new build 21st century facility, maybe that's more accurate, like Gatwick's. I used to dread my regular trips through T3, it's just not set up to succeed.

[Mr Mac]

I dropped some neighbors at the airport in Palma for a return Jet 2 flight to Man at lunchtime, and picked up some of my wife girlfriends who are staying with us over here for 7 days (I am leaving Tuesday !!), which had been delayed by about an hour on the inbound. However when I checked that flight, and others all seemed to be suffering a similar delay, is the MAN passenger issue with security still on going or was it tech issue as no announcement from flight deck on return ? I called them early this evening and they reported back that there were long cue's in T2 with around 50 min wait to clear immigration, with some scanners broken down.
Cheers
Mr Mac

[DP.]

I don't think wait times at security have been the cause of any significant delays for some weeks now. The main issue now is ground handling.

I flew from T3 a couple of weeks ago and was through security in about half an hour, even with the queue most of the way back to the boarding card scanners. We ended up with a 2 hour delay on our flight despite the inbound only being 30 minutes late, due to the wait for baggage being offloaded and a PRM who was still on board waiting almost 90 minutes after landing.

[Jonty]

PRM is the biggest issue now. We waited an hour and half to off load the in bound pax off a flight last week. There was one lift working for the entire airport.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Most likely to have been a slot. As a rule Jet2 at MAN don’t suffer delays due to baggage loading as they don’t rely on outsourcing for this.

[kriskross]

I remember back when I was a working crew member that I went through the staff channel at Manchester, and had my flight bag searched after the scan found a nearly empty bottle of water from the previous days flying. The security people were quite offensive about it, and didn't understand my comment that I was about to lock myself away behind an armoured door for 4 hours, and a half drunk bottle of water would not be what I would use if I felt that wat inclined.

[HKGBOY]

Appears to be three Cathay A350-1K on the ground at the same time. A bit unusual, especially as hardly anyone is going to HKG these days. Any special event happening?

[chaps1954]

Students returning to HKG end of term?

[spannersatcx]

Appears to be three Cathay A350-1K on the ground at the same time. A bit unusual, especially as hardly anyone is going to HKG these days. Any special event happening?
Flts are pretty full both ways. Also had 2 full in and out of LHR today. In fact they've been pretty full the last couple of weeks now.

[SWBKCB]

Interview with the new MDMr Woodroofe says he has already met with the UK managing director of handling agents Swissport and ABM, with special assistance firm PRM and with the boss of DHL.

“I’ve picked these people on purpose,” he said. “Because what I want to open is a dialogue that says we’re having these conversations about where we are at because in that way we can help each other to be more successful. I don’t want to be having issues with passengers waiting a long time for bags to be returned.

“Across the board, at Heathrow, Gatwick and Manchester, the experience in 2022 is not going to be as good as it was in 2019. What I’d like to get across is that summer 2022 is absolutely not the right standard going forward and it’s absolutely my intention to get ourselves back and use the autumn and winter of this coming season to get ourselves there so in summer 2023 we will be in a reasonable position.”

MEN - 'Is it going to be like how it was in 2019? No': Manchester Airport's new boss speaks out for first time over huge queues and delays (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/is-going-like-how-2019-24369247)

[AircraftOperations]

Interview with the new MD

MEN - 'Is it going to be like how it was in 2019? No': Manchester Airport's new boss speaks out for first time over huge queues and delays (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/is-going-like-how-2019-24369247)

What an apt name for a special assistance firm :ugh: Bl**dy media reporting again

[bar none]

Interview with the new MD

MEN - 'Is it going to be like how it was in 2019? No': Manchester Airport's new boss speaks out for first time over huge queues and delays (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/is-going-like-how-2019-24369247)
Travelled out on June 27 in the late afternoon. Very quick check in with Jet 2 and through security in 15 minutes. Returning today at lunchtime I was off the aircraft, though passport control, collected bags and was on the taxi rank in 20 minutes. And that was off a wide bodied aircraft (Jet 2 A330) so it shows that it can be done!

[Mr Mac]

Mrs Mac returned through Manchester with 3 girl freinds with Jet 2 this afternoon, with no issues at Palma or Manchester, though it is not the weekend, and all four had no issues with bags, which came off the quickly apparently. Jet 2 self handle at Manchester apparently (Thanks for the info on that Johnny Fartpants) I am back through there on Thursday from MUC. Maybe things are improving 👍

Cheers
Mr Mac

[WHBM]

Do Jet2 self-handle at Manchester ?

[SWBKCB]

. Maybe things are improving 👍



From today's Evening NewsPassengers have again faced huge delays at Manchester Airport as queues stretched back to the car park this morning. Angry travellers took to social media to complain about the waiting times at the chaos-hit airport.

One man tweeted a photo of a queue which he said stretched back to the multi-storey car park at Terminal 3. They later added: "3hrs from arriving to getting on the plane just as gate closing. Shambles. Your staff need help!!"

MEN - 'Utter shambles' at chaos-hit Manchester Airport as queues stretch back to the CAR PARK (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/utter-shambles-chaos-hit-manchester-24392277)

[Mr A Tis]

Certainly from MAs own website, it frequently shows security times as 60-90 minutes at various times of the day. When I went through T1 it said 15-30 minutes-when it was actually 45. Maybe the queueing times quoted are from the time you reach the boarding pass scanners ?, not accounting for the queue to the scanners.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Do Jet2 self-handle at Manchester ?

Yes they do

[VickersVicount]

Thought Singapore was going ‘gangbusters’ ?
Already cut for a winter stop /break W22/23

[HOVIS]

What have Singapore done?

[Mr A Tis]

I see all the new T2 check in desks in zone E F & G are all boarded up. Have they ever been used ?
Air Canada relegated to ground floor check-in.

[UnderASouthernSky]

I see all the new T2 check in desks in zone E F & G are all boarded up. Have they ever been used ?
Air Canada relegated to ground floor check-in.

I asked the same when we last flew out (but they weren't boarded up) and was told they are not due to be used until the entire baggage system works have been completed. When we saw them, there were no baggage belts at those desks.

[Mr A Tis]

Maybe they are actually putting in a baggage belt to the check in desks !

In other news Ryanair are returning to Belfast (BFS) & adding BFS-MAN back to the schedules, frequency unknown at the moment.

[DUB19]

Frequency is double daily

[MANFOD]

I asked the same when we last flew out (but they weren't boarded up) and was told they are not due to be used until the entire baggage system works have been completed. When we saw them, there were no baggage belts at those desks.

My recollection from a few weeks ago was that the left side of what I think is E zone was being used by EI for their JFK & MCO flights, and also by Sabena. Certainly F & G were not in use. The old T2 check-in area in zones A-C can get pretty crowded at times with TUI and Jet2, but also Virgin, Etihad and Singapore.

[Mr A Tis]

T2 check in area D is used by Virgin, Aer Lingus & Qatar - as far as I know E F & G have never been in use. (KLM/ Brussels/Air France moved back from D to area B)

[MANFAN]

My recollection from a few weeks ago was that the left side of what I think is E zone was being used by EI for their JFK & MCO flights, and also by Sabena. Certainly F & G were not in use. The old T2 check-in area in zones A-C can get pretty crowded at times with TUI and Jet2, but also Virgin, Etihad and Singapore.

Who are Sabena? Have I gone back in time…

[MANFOD]

"Who are Sabena? Have I gone back in time…"
Yes, it's just us oldies with nostalgic memories.
How about "Brussels airlines" then?
And come to think of it, I believe Virgin had moved into 'D' from 'B' last time I was in T2.




MANFAN is offline Report Post (https://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=11258412)

[Bbtengineer]

Mr Mac, I don’t think it reasonable to describe cabin crew as “quite old, but competent “. The days of employing trolley dollies to be disposed of at the age of 30 are long gone. I would much rather have cabin crew who know their job and who provide an efficient and friendly service than be purely judged on looks. Some are young and fantastic, some are older and fantastic, it should be entirely down to ability and not age. Says a 67 year old poster………

I feel a little bit of over sensitivity here.

There really is no learning curve for cabin crew.

Asking chicken or beef really is just asking chicken or beef.

Sure there are safety aspects but absolutely
none of them have ever actual conducted a real evac - see safety record.

So what we’re left with is who is more likely to to be efficient and friendly and the honest answer is somebody who has had less time to become bored and frustrated with a hard, repetitive and poorly paid job.

That is actually more likely to be a 38 year old than a 58 year old, because cabin crew are real people too.

Disclosure: on the old end of that scale myself.

[VickersVicount]

Whats the reason for the one-off SQ A380 today?

[SWBKCB]

Whats the reason for the one-off SQ A380 today?

Football - far east tour

[AircraftOperations]

T2 check in area D is used by Virgin, Aer Lingus & Qatar - as far as I know E F & G have never been in use. (KLM/ Brussels/Air France moved back from D to area B)

D and half of E have been in use since the new hall opened. D is a single row of desks whereas E has 2 banks. The second half of E is across the main thoroughfare to security and is now behind hoarding.

[Rutan16]

Thought Singapore was going ‘gangbusters’ ?
Already cut for a winter stop /break W22/23

-The Right Hon.
—-—-The Lord Viscount Vickers,

My Lord, do you have more information on the Singapore suspensions and does it include the Houston tag or has that been rerouted via elsewhere .

How long is the suspension and when are future bookings reopening , indeed are they already open?

Can’t remember COVID19 times excluded when they ever cut the service entirely.

Think the lowest I remember were SQ327/328 via Munich dropping to three weekly

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

I'm sure that I read on Twitter thar SQ are updating raher than suspending their winter schedule from/through Manchester.

[MANFOD]

I'm sure that I read on Twitter thar SQ are updating raher than suspending their winter schedule from/through Manchester.
I hope that's right. Tried various dates Dec/Jan/Feb for MAN-SIN on their web site and it comes up as no flights.
Both SIN & IAH then reappear the beginning of April. (SIN as 5 x weekly, not sure if it's the same for IAH).

[easyboy22]

[QUOTE=Bbtengineer;11258655]I feel a little bit of over sensitivity here.

There really is no learning curve for cabin crew.

Asking chicken or beef really is just asking chicken or beef.

Sure there are safety aspects but absolutely
none of them have ever actual conducted a real evac - see safety record.

So what we’re left with is who is more likely to to be efficient and friendly and the honest answer is somebody who has had less time to become bored and frustrated with a hard, repetitive and poorly paid job.

That is actually more likely to be a 38 year old than a 58 year old, because cabin crew are real people too.

Disclosure: on the old end of that scale myself.[/QUOTE

Poorly paid job, wouldn’t say pulling between £2.500 and £3000 a month after tax is poorly paid..

[LGWAlan]

-The Right Hon.
—-—-The Lord Viscount Vickers,

My Lord, do you have more information on the Singapore suspensions and does it include the Houston tag or has that been rerouted via elsewhere .

How long is the suspension and when are future bookings reopening , indeed are they already open?

Can’t remember COVID19 times excluded when they ever cut the service entirely.

Think the lowest I remember were SQ327/328 via Munich dropping to three weekly


Mr Rutan - courtesy of I think Aero Route - I may be wrong on this one but I saw it somewhere online:Published at 1510GMT 07JUL22

Singapore Airlines this week continues to file schedule and inventory changes for Northern winter 2022/23 season, effective 30OCT22. On Singapore – Manchester – Houston route, the Star Alliance carrier temporary closed bookings for travel for the period of 04NOV22 – 18JAN23. First available flight for booking during Northern winter 2022/23 season is 20JAN23, as of Thursday 07JUL22.

Previously highlighted, despite timetable listing shows 5 weekly flights with Airbus A350-900XWB, only 4 flights are available for booking.

SQ052 SIN0210 – 0835MAN1005 – 1425IAH 359 x146
SQ051 IAH1850 – 0930+1MAN1100+1 – 0755+1SIN 359 x146

Further adjustments can be expected.

[MANFOD]

"On Singapore – Manchester – Houston route, the Star Alliance carrier temporary closed bookings for travel for the period of 04NOV22 – 18JAN23"
Yes, it does say 'temporary' closed bookings. I would have thought that was a busy period for potential travellers so maybe they are just sorting out frequencies and a/c availability. Those timings are the same as before covid as I recall.

[OzzyOzBorn]

It would make no sense to shun the lucrative peak-demand Christmas / New Year traffic on the Kangaroo route? That's when the big money rolls in - unless crazed politicians get to play 'covid saviour' again. Hopefully new capacity put on sale soon.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

BA seem to have dropped MAN-LGW from end of this month. No surprise, astonished they even brought it back to simply feed LGW-ISB.

[Logohu]

I hope that's right. Tried various dates Dec/Jan/Feb for MAN-SIN on their web site and it comes up as no flights.
Both SIN & IAH then reappear the beginning of April. (SIN as 5 x weekly, not sure if it's the same for IAH).

The only change at the moment appears to be that apart from a couple of dates around Christmas the proposed 5th weekly service has been pushed back from end of October to end of March 2023. Otherwise it appears the present 4x weekly services continue without a break. Having said that the flights are still closed for sale so perhaps more changes are coming....

[VLCfkight]

LGW-ISB has also now been dropped according to the BA thread so this explains why MAN-LGW has been dropped.

[Mr A Tis]

Delta B764 on its way in from Atlanta today & departing tomorrow to Houston. A bit unusual- but a welcome return seeing Delta back at MAN- even if its a one off. Don't know if it still wears the BCRF pink livery.

[bar none]

It's taking Manchester City F C on their pre season tour in the USA.

[easyflyer83]

I feel a little bit of over sensitivity here.

There really is no learning curve for cabin crew.

Asking chicken or beef really is just asking chicken or beef.

Sure there are safety aspects but absolutely
none of them have ever actual conducted a real evac - see safety record.

So what we’re left with is who is more likely to to be efficient and friendly and the honest answer is somebody who has had less time to become bored and frustrated with a hard, repetitive and poorly paid job.

That is actually more likely to be a 38 year old than a 58 year old, because cabin crew are real people too.

Disclosure: on the old end of that scale myself.

This post in itself shows a degree of ignorance or lack of knowledge of the role of cabin crew. The safety aspect of the role does not end at the safety demonstration even if it rarely ends at an evacuation. There are safety related roles in between the two that are completed on a daily basis, namely safety equipment and security related checks which I won’t elaborate on.

On top of that, you have medical incidents on a semi regular basis for which crew are trained for. I don’t subscribe to the notion that being cabin crew is akin to rocket science but it’s more than the general public realise.

I do also think the notion that cabin crew are poorly paid is somewhat overplayed. I’m senior and take home around 2.5k after tax but my junior colleagues (outside their first year which admittedly isn’t great) take home around 2k.

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

Can I assume the salary referred to is monthly? In which case, when I retired, 7 years ago, as a corporate travel agent, that would be twice my pay.

[Jonty]

I feel a little bit of over sensitivity here.

There really is no learning curve for cabin crew.

Asking chicken or beef really is just asking chicken or beef.

Sure there are safety aspects but absolutely
none of them have ever actual conducted a real evac - see safety record.

So what we’re left with is who is more likely to to be efficient and friendly and the honest answer is somebody who has had less time to become bored and frustrated with a hard, repetitive and poorly paid job.

That is actually more likely to be a 38 year old than a 58 year old, because cabin crew are real people too.

Disclosure: on the old end of that scale myself.

I personally know of at least 2 instances of cabin crew saving passengers lives while in flight. And I’m sure there are many many more.

Safety is not just about the evacuation.

[easyflyer83]

Can I assume the salary referred to is monthly? In which case, when I retired, 7 years ago, as a corporate travel agent, that would be twice my pay.

At my carrier our pay is made up of…

Basic salary
Sector pay
Commission

The last two elements are variable and will depend on how busy I am but my take home is usually between 2.3k and 2.6k per month after tax.

[euromanxdude]

At my previous airline I would be taking home almost £3k a month as a senior. And at that airline I had numerous medicals, and ‘incidents’ where I was deemed unlucky to work with!

My current airline I’m lucky to take home £1500 pcm. I certainly don’t do this role for the money.. but for the love of the role.
Many friends at many airlines I know are open that they are now on Universal Credit to top them up and get them to end of the month.

[easyflyer83]

At my previous airline I would be taking home almost £3k a month as a senior. And at that airline I had numerous medicals, and ‘incidents’ where I was deemed unlucky to work with!

My current airline I’m lucky to take home £1500 pcm. I certainly don’t do this role for the money.. but for the love of the role.
Many friends at many airlines I know are open that they are now on Universal Credit to top them up and get them to end of the month.

You’ll never be a millionaire doing our job that is true but there are way more lower paid roles than ours.

For what I do, I feel I’m reasonably well paid. That’s not to say I don’t think I need a pay rise. Lol.

[CabinCrewe]

Looks like the SQ service has been reinstated over the previously closed winter months. Curious.

[roverman]

Does anyone have any information regarding the resumption or launch of services between Manchester and India? Now that India is once again accepting inbound passengers I would have thought we would be hearing about plans by Virgin at least to begin the services they had planned pre-Covid, and possibly a relaunch by Jet Airways. Direct flights to India, like Thailand remains a tough nut for MAN to crack despite the apparent demand currently going via MEB3. Maybe that's the reason?

[Logohu]

Looks like the SQ service has been reinstated over the previously closed winter months. Curious.
SQ had planned to increase from 4 to 5 weekly this winter, however they will now stay at 4. There are however three extra services on Saturdays in December/January. These extra flights are turnaround flights for MAN and won't go on to Houston. Presumably the temporary suspension of bookings was while the winter schedule was being updated and passengers moved from the dates that are no longer operating onto other dates.

[CabinCrewe]

MAG via media reporting security queues at MAN ‘dramatically improved’ with 3/4 through in 15-30 mins. Seems a vast improvement if consistently true?

[OltonPete]

MAG via media reporting security queues at MAN ‘dramatically improved’ with 3/4 through in 15-30 mins. Seems a vast improvement if consistently true?

One problem solved maybe but another? Two diversions to BHX in the early hours and one to EMA another this afternoon to EMA (TUI 788). Mind you BHX NOTAM basically reads divert at your peril if you want your pax off-loaded :ouch: The 2 diverted flights were due 22:55 and 23:10 but were late, landing BHX around 02:30:oh:

NOTAM

) EGCC
B) 22/07/31 01:00 C) 22/07/31 04:15
D) 0100-0145 0330-0415
E) MANCHESTER ATS NOT AVBL. CTA AND CTR REVERT TO CLASS G. SUITABLY EQUIPPED ACFT OPR WI MANCHESTER AIRSPACE SHOULD MONITOR MANCHESTER RADAR ON 118.580MHZ AND SQUAWK 7360. ANY DISCREET TASK SPECIFIC CODE OR ANY DISCREET CODE ALLOCATED BY ANOTHER ATC UNIT. ACFT LANDING INSIDE MANCHESTER AIRSPACE SHALL CTC MANCHESTER ATC ON 0161 2092836 IF INTENDING TO DEPART DURING PUBLISHED OPENING HOURS.

Pete

[chaps1954]

There was an incident yesterday afternoon which caused the closure for a while caused by an engine fire on a wide body at about 15.30 and involved all the fire crews available.
and during night debris on runway caused change to 23L for a while which caused 2 fuel diversions thanks to info from another group

[GrahamK]

MAG via media reporting security queues at MAN ‘dramatically improved’ with 3/4 through in 15-30 mins. Seems a vast improvement if consistently true?
Flew in/out of MAN with EZY a few weeks back. Just shy of 2hrs to get through check in and security on the way out. However, coming back, from stepping off the aircraft, 15 mins to getting through border control and collecting my bags.

[Squawk 6042]

Flew out of T2 this morning, KLM 0555 hrs flight. 1.5 hours check-in and security. Moving most of the time, so (just about) bearable.

[CabinCrewe]

Saudia up to 5 times per week (from 4) 787-9

[lfc84]

Back in March and April, Manchester Airport were saying the security queues were due to unexpected passenger numbers.

Yet here they are providing the forward forecasting that they claimed not to be able to do earlier in the Summer.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/airports-uk-manchester-gatwick-heathrow-b2139040.html

Sunday 7 August is predicted to be the busiest for the rest of the summer – with 94,000 passengers passing through, at a rate of above one per second on average.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Back in March and April, Manchester Airport were saying the security queues were due to unexpected passenger numbers.

Yet here they are providing the forward forecasting that they claimed not to be able to do earlier in the Summer.
.

What a bizarre post. Do you remember a certain geopolitical upheaval known as “Covid19”? It was a global pandemic which resulted in governments closing borders, imposing draconian travel restrictions and constantly shifting the goalposts on these. Our own government was a prominent offender, ignoring all pleas from our industry to provide a roadmap to reopening. Airports and airlines were left floundering with no reliable information to work with. To those who claim that airports and airlines should have recruited based on assumptions of normal throughput in S2022, take a look at what happened to those who did exactly that in 2021. PCR testing was suddenly imposed for passengers entering the UK leaving the industry royally *****ed yet again. And financial help for our aviation industry was thwarted beyond the basic schemes open to all by the carbon demonisation cult at Westminster.

But you make no allowance for all of that. You just expect airports to produce reliable forward projections against that backdrop? Or perhaps this is just another example of you working up to your usual playbook. Manchester Airport gets everything wrong and we should all book to fly from Liverpool instead. Am I on the right lines?

[lfc84]

I'll reword it for those that are blinkered.

The excuse for queues was unexpected high number of passengers.

Even though the schedules had been sorted for months.

Yet now, when asked how many people are going to travel, they can say a number.

Clearly they were talking out of their backside a few months ago. Something which was obviously a lie.

[OzzyOzBorn]

The schedules for Summer 2021 had been sorted for months as well. Until they couldn’t operate. Do you appreciate what happened to airports and airlines which presumed normal throughput for that Summer? But you expect them to just recruit and presume normality for S2022 at huge expense and just keep their fingers crossed that those same politicians wouldn’t ***** them over again at the drop of a hat? These businesses require reliable guidance and none was offered to them despite constant pleas to government. Having lost unfathomable sums of money, they can’t afford to just shrug their shoulders and roll a dice.

It is the armchair CEO types like you who are wearing blinkers. Or perhaps it just suits your anti-MAN narrative to look away from inconvenient facts.

[Rutan16]

What a bizarre post. Do you remember a certain geopolitical upheaval known as “Covid19”? It was a global pandemic which resulted in governments closing borders, imposing draconian travel restrictions and constantly shifting the goalposts on these. Our own government was a prominent offender, ignoring all pleas from our industry to provide a roadmap to reopening. Airports and airlines were left floundering with no reliable information to work with. To those who claim that airports and airlines should have recruited based on assumptions of normal throughput in S2022, take a look at what happened to those who did exactly that in 2021. PCR testing was suddenly imposed for passengers entering the UK leaving the industry royally *****ed yet again. And financial help for our aviation industry was thwarted beyond the basic schemes open to all by the carbon demonisation cult at Westminster.

But you make no allowance for all of that. You just expect airports to produce reliable forward projections against that backdrop? Or perhaps this is just another example of you working up to your usual playbook. Manchester Airport gets everything wrong and we should all book to fly from Liverpool instead. Am I on the right lines?

Couldn’t Agee more Ozzy spot on

Could expand on the 8_12 week DBS checks timeframe for EVERY new employee going airside from cleaner , to pilot and even building maintenance, massively reduced pool of potential employees due to end of FOM, crap salaries and perceived working conditions offered, government notification of opening up travel in February far too close to the start of the season . All compounded by mass voucher redemptions on an unprecedented scale by a populous ( not expected by the industry themselves) stir crazy from being couped up for best part of two years or more.

Remember many indeed most of the vouchers were issued via a certain few inclusive tour companies and some of the legacies so the redemptive options have effective departure airport caveats and limitations.

Whilst both Easy and Ryan offered vouchers , many of their customers simply cancelled for refunds anyway.

Going back to ending of FOM further impacts GB passport holders ( third country status) in their MILLIONS joining the queues with Russians, North African, Ukrainian and others to have their passport Stamped twice ! and impacting every EU airport at rates NEVER SEEN BEFORE in history !
( travel volumes in the early seventies were a fraction of today)..

Problems have been doubling amplified at the prime IT departure airports Manchester , Leeds, Glasgow, Birmingham, Bristol, Stanstead and Gatwick by the post ending of furlough and resultant mass sackings by the handlers.

At airports such as Luton and Liverpool i’d hazard to suggest the levels of suit cases , and catering requirements ( both organic blob intensive) fewer packages and requirements for longer stay clientele are a fraction of these peers.

Simply put typical Easyjet/Ryanair mini backpack clientele don’t need many/any blobs to check cases , issue boarding cards, porter cases to onto carts or into containers, bar code, drive and load, have catering loaded, delivered trollies loaded onto plane, process passengers with mobility issues ( both Manchester and Gatwick certainly are falling down here and that is a disgrace for those operators and I can’t condone or critique this certain failing)

That same clientele passing through the LCC terminals will probably have fewer electronics and certainly lower risk of carrying levels of offending liquids ( don’t get me started on this nonsense through)

This situation is a perfect storm for the levels of disruption across the industry amplified in the UK by a certain self imposed political event and its associated impacts.

IFC perhaps your knee jerk and simple viewpoint need addressing somewhat.

[HOVIS]

And yet, Jet2 were able to recruit enough people from September 2021 onwards and ensure they were ready... Unlike some.

[Rutan16]

And yet, Jet2 were able to recruit enough people from September 2021 onwards and ensure they were ready... Unlike some.

Seems you might be referring indirectly to Tui and perhaps BA ?

That said Jet2 are heavily reliant of third party carriers to deliver their programmes at Birmingham, and Stanstead and even here at Manchester with Wamos on certain routes .

Whilst within the EU have taken advantage to recruit many reps locally without the need for too many from the UK with all the associated visa issues ( robbing kids of summer work pre Uni tragically )

However they are far from immune to the airport issues issues especially at their home base , plenty queues on the first waves out into the street and “half way down Whitehouse Lane”

Through at least they are delivering on their programme unlike those other carriers and thats a good thing sure enough

[Mr Mac]

Well I have flown out of Manchester and Leeds Bradford this summer with Jet 2 and flights have boarded on time but Manchester had a bag passenger issue so we waited sometime before we pushed back. LBA needs a new terminal but flight was fine. Palma has been great on both trips and currently I am at Palma waiting to return having done drop car to through security in 30min which is a record for me.

[HOVIS]

Seems you might be referring indirectly to Tui and perhaps BA ?

That said Jet2 are heavily reliant of third party carriers to deliver their programmes at Birmingham, and Stanstead and even here at Manchester with Wamos on certain routes .

Whilst within the EU have taken advantage to recruit many reps locally without the need for too many from the UK with all the associated visa issues ( robbing kids of summer work pre Uni tragically )

However they are far from immune to the airport issues issues especially at their home base , plenty queues on the first waves out into the street and “half way down Whitehouse Lane”

Through at least they are delivering on their programme unlike those other carriers and thats a good thing sure enough
BA only have engineers on site. No other staff at all. Jet2 have only been having problems with airport specific related issues caused by security and immigration.

[Rutan16]

BA only have engineers on site. No other staff at all. Jet2 have only been having problems with airport specific related issues caused by security and immigration.

The references to Tui and BA were about the wider issues than simply Manchester 👍

[BACsuperVC10]

Couldn’t Agee more Ozzy spot on

Could expand on the 8_12 week DBS checks timeframe for EVERY new employee going airside from cleaner , to pilot and even building maintenance, massively reduced pool of potential employees due to end of FOM, crap salaries and perceived working conditions offered, government notification of opening up travel in February far too close to the start of the season . All compounded by mass voucher redemptions on an unprecedented scale by a populous ( not expected by the industry themselves) stir crazy from being couped up for best part of two years or more.

Remember many indeed most of the vouchers were issued via a certain few inclusive tour companies and some of the legacies so the redemptive options have effective departure airport caveats and limitations.

Whilst both Easy and Ryan offered vouchers , many of their customers simply cancelled for refunds anyway.

Going back to ending of FOM further impacts GB passport holders ( third country status) in their MILLIONS joining the queues with Russians, North African, Ukrainian and others to have their passport Stamped twice ! and impacting every EU airport at rates NEVER SEEN BEFORE in history !
( travel volumes in the early seventies were a fraction of today)..

Problems have been doubling amplified at the prime IT departure airports Manchester , Leeds, Glasgow, Birmingham, Bristol, Stanstead and Gatwick by the post ending of furlough and resultant mass sackings by the handlers.

At airports such as Luton and Liverpool i’d hazard to suggest the levels of suit cases , and catering requirements ( both organic blob intensive) fewer packages and requirements for longer stay clientele are a fraction of these peers.

Simply put typical Easyjet/Ryanair mini backpack clientele don’t need many/any blobs to check cases , issue boarding cards, porter cases to onto carts or into containers, bar code, drive and load, have catering loaded, delivered trollies loaded onto plane, process passengers with mobility issues ( both Manchester and Gatwick certainly are falling down here and that is a disgrace for those operators and I can’t condone or critique this certain failing)

That same clientele passing through the LCC terminals will probably have fewer electronics and certainly lower risk of carrying levels of offending liquids ( don’t get me started on this nonsense through)

This situation is a perfect storm for the levels of disruption across the industry amplified in the UK by a certain self imposed political event and its associated impacts.

IFC perhaps your knee jerk and simple viewpoint need addressing somewhat.


Bizarre reckoning on Luton and Liverpool !!

[Rutan16]

Bizarre reckoning on Luton and Liverpool !!

Demonstrably accurate .

Self checkin ( via apps) few suitcases of Any significance - Standard food cart a few Pringles and sandwiches ( LOADED a once a day !)

Inclusive tour airports - thousands of family suitcases and people with white bags full of liquids ( many annual travellers or even less frequent frankly not understanding the 100mil NONE opened rules)

Catering on a significantly larger scale , meals either booked or included and dietary requirements to contend with.

Mobility issues by their very nature at airports handling a multitude more passengers will be more frequent and a larger number

I have a family friend in a wheelchair that travels through Manchester several times a year and THIS is not a pleasant experience sure enough however prepare and notify in advance and departing is usually adequate. Disembarkation is another story afraid to say

Just think about that real logistics for once this isn’t a dig at Liverpool in particular just an observation ( rather wider eyes than Liverpool the friendly what ever marketing cr*p)

Ive said here and in another place the profile ( not just raw volumes) at Liverpool and to lesser extent Luton differ markedly and a simple view point over raw door to food hall time isn’t remotely comparable or indeed relevant to be honest, with my analytical hat on.

I know you post under a differing name on the construction site a site lacking critical thinking among the five or so contributors For the most part, however here is a generally little more mature

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Inclusive tour airports - thousands of family suitcases and people with white bags full of liquids ( many annual travellers or even less frequent frankly not understanding the 100mil NONE opened rules)
That's a dated analysis. Aside from TUI and Jet2, IT isn't a fraction of what it once was relative to wider short haul leisure. Indeed MAN has rather large fleets of both Ryanair and easyJet so not sure there's a fair comparison here. As for "Stanstead" being a prime IT airport? It's Ryanair Central, with a smattering of Jet2 and a tiny side portion of TUI.

[Rutan16]

That's a dated analysis. Aside from TUI and Jet2, IT isn't a fraction of what it once was relative to wider short haul leisure. Indeed MAN has rather large fleets of both Ryanair and easyJet so not sure there's a fair comparison here. As for "Stanstead" being a prime IT airport? It's Ryanair Central, with a smattering of Jet2 and a tiny side portion of TUI.

That isn’t right Skip, as I said where are those key IT bases and where are the issues ? Even in which particular terminals ?

Use you analytics here i think you of all people here can do better than that, some lateral thinking , yet I see you haven’t actually disagreed so much as state dated analysis methodology.

I would widen the scope to include longer haul ( T2) and what is the breakdown there, oh yes a million unprocessed cases !

Again look at Liverpool what does it NOT have nor handle in any significant volume ?

Is it not the core of the flexible fares ( LCC) model, to discourage hold baggage, strip out catering costs via limited offerings of snacks via aggressive pricing strategies and thereby reduce costs?

And if so why are those costs made up of - primarily ground based organic blobs -the ones that SWISSPORT, and DNATA fired !

[BACsuperVC10]

Demonstrably accurate .

Self checkin ( via apps) few suitcases of Any significance - Standard food cart a few Pringles and sandwiches ( LOADED a once a day !)

Inclusive tour airports - thousands of family suitcases and people with white bags full of liquids ( many annual travellers or even less frequent frankly not understanding the 100mil NONE opened rules)

Catering on a significantly larger scale , meals either booked or included and dietary requirements to contend with.

Mobility issues by their very nature at airports handling a multitude more passengers will be more frequent and a larger number

I have a family friend in a wheelchair that travels through Manchester several times a year and THIS is not a pleasant experience sure enough however prepare and notify in advance and departing is usually adequate. Disembarkation is another story afraid to say

Just think about that real logistics for once this isn’t a dig at Liverpool in particular just an observation ( rather wider eyes than Liverpool the friendly what ever marketing cr*p)

Ive said here and in another place the profile ( not just raw volumes) at Liverpool and to lesser extent Luton differ markedly and a simple view point over raw door to food hall time isn’t remotely comparable or indeed relevant to be honest, with my analytical hat on.

I know you post under a differing name on the construction site a site lacking critical thinking among the five or so contributors For the most part, however here is a generally little more mature

You can believe all that if you like, Liverpool is very busy with families with kids and luggage right and im sure
Luton is too . Tell your friends with wheelchairs to use Liverpool for a pleasant travel experience. :p Are you banned from from construction site now, for the trolling :=

[OzzyOzBorn]

Tell your friends with wheelchairs to use Liverpool for a pleasant travel experience

This familiar agenda which sees a small number of immature Scouse spotters repeatedly troll this thread with "fly from Liverpool" advice is transparent and childish. Give it up. We don't troll the Liverpool thread with nonsense like this.

[Mr Mac]

With regards to shortage of staff at Manchester I have just done a site induction in Manchester,and the lady who did this has a partner who used to drive catering trucks airside at Manchester. They were furloughed for 6 months, then made redundant during Covid. He has found other work, but has been asked to return, and the money is good, but now on Zero hours contract which is the huge change to previous. May explain why they are short staffed as that is now not a regular job.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[BACsuperVC10]

This familiar agenda which sees a small number of immature Scouse spotters repeatedly troll this thread with "fly from Liverpool" advice is transparent and childish. Give it up. We don't troll the Liverpool thread with nonsense like this.

Ha, if only that was true

[BHX5DME]

TUI trying to claim back £75m mainly from MAN

Tui blamed UK airports, particularly Manchester, for plunging it into the red in April, May and June.

Tui Group chief executive Sebastian Ebel said: “Yes, we are going for compensation. It can be small, it can be big, it is something we will fight very much for.

“It is very much on our agenda to get something in the next coming months and it should be significant.”

Tui estimates the total cost of airport disruption at €75 million.

Ebel said UK infrastructure “came more under pressure than in other areas”, but said that after Manchester, Amsterdam had proved the most problematic for Tui.

“The UK labour shortage was probably more than what we have seen at other airports,” he said.

“In the last couple of days it has normalised, but the whole system is very fragile. There will be significant costs associated with it.”

Tui said 96% of its passengers departed on time or with delays of less than three hours in May and June, with 200 cancellations in this period blamed mainly on Manchester airport.

[MANFAN]

TUI trying to claim back £75m mainly from MAN

Tui blamed UK airports, particularly Manchester, for plunging it into the red in April, May and June.

Tui Group chief executive Sebastian Ebel said: “Yes, we are going for compensation. It can be small, it can be big, it is something we will fight very much for.

“It is very much on our agenda to get something in the next coming months and it should be significant.”

Tui estimates the total cost of airport disruption at €75 million.

Ebel said UK infrastructure “came more under pressure than in other areas”, but said that after Manchester, Amsterdam had proved the most problematic for Tui.

“The UK labour shortage was probably more than what we have seen at other airports,” he said.

“In the last couple of days it has normalised, but the whole system is very fragile. There will be significant costs associated with it.”

Tui said 96% of its passengers departed on time or with delays of less than three hours in May and June, with 200 cancellations in this period blamed mainly on Manchester airport.

What about Swissport? They handle TUI who also have had major staff shortages!
What are TUI doing about airports in the other countries they operate from…the UK isn’t the only European country to suffer from the type of issues that have caused these delays and cancellations…!

[AircraftOperations]

What about Swissport? They handle TUI who also have had major staff shortages!
What are TUI doing about airports in the other countries they operate from…the UK isn’t the only European country to suffer from the type of issues that have caused these delays and cancellations…!

The quotes from Ebel don't specifically state that they are (only) going after the airport operators for compensation. Multiple airport operator and non-airport operator reasons have probably contributed towards the disruption and losses across the summer (the latter including handlers, air traffic, caterers etc). And that excludes any impact that the airline's own operations may have suffered problems through staffing, aircraft availability etc.

[Rutan16]

You can believe all that if you like, Liverpool is very busy with families with kids and luggage right and im sure
Luton is too . Tell your friends with wheelchairs to use Liverpool for a pleasant travel experience. :p Are you banned from from construction site now, for the trolling :=
No I am not banned simply given up dealing with 5 juveniles

[Rutan16]

You can believe all that if you like, Liverpool is very busy with families with kids and luggage right and im sure
Luton is too . Tell your friends with wheelchairs to use Liverpool for a pleasant travel experience. :p Are you banned from from construction site now, for the trolling :=Liverpool handleds less 7000 passengers per DAY that’s not stressful or busy indeed the terminal never has more than around 800 passing through at one time, whilst Manchester over 80,000 per day consider that of which more than 20,000 will have cases travelling long haul and on the Inclusive tour operators.
Now are the handler still short staff of course they are however Liverpool we planned better is utter nonsense
My family friend is that of my wife she is a french citizen lives in York can she fly to Nantes or Bordeaux and oh and she actually likes the shopping experience for whatever reason

[AndrewH52]

Liverpool handleds less 7000 passengers per DAY that’s not stressful or busy indeed the terminal never has more than around 800 passing through at one time

12,000 actually.

[BACsuperVC10]

No I am not banned simply given up dealing with 5 juveniles

Are so they let you back in then. now who's the juvenile.

[BACsuperVC10]

Liverpool handleds less 7000 passengers per DAY that’s not stressful or busy indeed the terminal never has more than around 800 passing through at one time, whilst Manchester over 80,000 per day consider that of which more than 20,000 will have cases travelling long haul and on the Inclusive tour operators.
Now are the handler still short staff of course they are however Liverpool we planned better is utter nonsense
My family friend is that of my wife she is a french citizen lives in York can she fly to Nantes or Bordeaux and oh and she actually likes the shopping experience for whatever reason

they actually did plan better, but suites your agenda to not accept that.

[SWBKCB]

they actually did plan better, but suites your agenda to not accept that.

Both sides, give it a rest... :ugh:

[Rutan16]

12,000 actually.
thats arrival and departure !

[Rutan16]

Both sides, give it a rest... :ugh:
I don’t need to give anything a rest the scouser is the problem here and elsewhere
He she can’t take criticism or debate factually
Total cheerleader for Peel

[Rutan16]

they actually did plan better, but suites your agenda to not accept that.
provide me and others detailed evidence timeframes coordination and strategic planning done and delivered
that somehow the entire industry elsewhere missed

[bobradamus]

I mean, MAG were still trying to recruit someone to head up their planning operation in Feb ‘22, certainly for security staffing levels; I remember reading the job spec! So there was likely a vacuum of leadership in a key area at a key time that won’t have helped generally. I’ve heard a few independent accounts through professional relationships of a particularly toxic work environment, that’s not helped retain staff in these sorts of teams either. Coupled with all the other factors, it won’t have helped, however there’s clearly many different macro effects adding into this perfect storm.

[easyflyer83]

Couldn’t Agee more Ozzy spot on

Could expand on the 8_12 week DBS checks timeframe for EVERY new employee going airside from cleaner , to pilot and even building maintenance, massively reduced pool of potential employees due to end of FOM, crap salaries and perceived working conditions offered, government notification of opening up travel in February far too close to the start of the season . All compounded by mass voucher redemptions on an unprecedented scale by a populous ( not expected by the industry themselves) stir crazy from being couped up for best part of two years or more.

Remember many indeed most of the vouchers were issued via a certain few inclusive tour companies and some of the legacies so the redemptive options have effective departure airport caveats and limitations.

Whilst both Easy and Ryan offered vouchers , many of their customers simply cancelled for refunds anyway.

Going back to ending of FOM further impacts GB passport holders ( third country status) in their MILLIONS joining the queues with Russians, North African, Ukrainian and others to have their passport Stamped twice ! and impacting every EU airport at rates NEVER SEEN BEFORE in history !
( travel volumes in the early seventies were a fraction of today)..

Problems have been doubling amplified at the prime IT departure airports Manchester , Leeds, Glasgow, Birmingham, Bristol, Stanstead and Gatwick by the post ending of furlough and resultant mass sackings by the handlers.

At airports such as Luton and Liverpool i’d hazard to suggest the levels of suit cases , and catering requirements ( both organic blob intensive) fewer packages and requirements for longer stay clientele are a fraction of these peers.

Simply put typical Easyjet/Ryanair mini backpack clientele don’t need many/any blobs to check cases , issue boarding cards, porter cases to onto carts or into containers, bar code, drive and load, have catering loaded, delivered trollies loaded onto plane, process passengers with mobility issues ( both Manchester and Gatwick certainly are falling down here and that is a disgrace for those operators and I can’t condone or critique this certain failing)

That same clientele passing through the LCC terminals will probably have fewer electronics and certainly lower risk of carrying levels of offending liquids ( don’t get me started on this nonsense through)

This situation is a perfect storm for the levels of disruption across the industry amplified in the UK by a certain self imposed political event and its associated impacts.

IFC perhaps your knee jerk and simple viewpoint need addressing somewhat.

A rather bizarre caricature of a LCC passenger there. In reality, the attributes and characteristics of a passenger invariably depends upon their destination as opposed to the airline which they are flying.

Your average second home owner flying down to Faro displays the same characteristics as when they fly away for their long haul south East Asian holiday with Emirates.

[AircraftOperations]

I mean, MAG were still trying to recruit someone to head up their planning operation in Feb ‘22, certainly for security staffing levels; I remember reading the job spec! So there was likely a vacuum of leadership in a key area at a key time that won’t have helped generally. I’ve heard a few independent accounts through professional relationships of a particularly toxic work environment, that’s not helped retain staff in these sorts of teams either. Coupled with all the other factors, it won’t have helped, however there’s clearly many different macro effects adding into this perfect storm.

An employer can start recruitment as early as they want, but if attrition (for whatever reason) is such that your headcount is not increasing by the same amount as the number of new hires joining, then that can still put you on the back foot if you weren't expecting it. Not saying that is/was the case for MAG specifically, but can't believe that has not affected a lot of the lower paid aviation roles in the last 6-9 months - whoever the employer.

[BHX5DME]

MAG SEES JULY PASSENGER TRAFFIC HIT 85% OF PRE-COVID LEVELS



Manchester Airports Group (MAG) said the “positive trend” had been improved upon during the first week of August, as 99% of passengers cleared in half an hour or less, while 84% went through in 15 minutes or under.

At Stansted, 99% of passengers cleared security within 15 minutes last month.

The statistics were released as MAG revealed a recovery in overall passenger levels during July to 85% of pre-Covid traffic – with 5.5 million travellers using its three airports.

The figure across Manchester, Stansted and East Midlands, rose from 82% in May and 84% in June.

Stansted’s numbers reached 90% of 2019 levels, totalling 2.5 million passengers, while Manchester welcomed 2.6 million passengers, accounting for 82% of pre-pandemic traffic. East Midlands reported more than 400,000 passengers.



MAG also reported to have recruited more than 300 staff across its business last month, taking its total since January to more than 2,000.



Chief executive Charlie Cornish said: “We continue to see a strong recovery and, having welcomed more than 2,000 new colleagues into our business, are laying the foundations for passenger volumes and customer service to return to pre-pandemic levels in 2023.”

[BHX5DME]

July Pax

MAN – 2,609,592 down 17.9% on July 2019

STN – 2,475,606 down 10.3% on July 2019

EMA – 417,252 down 26.9% on July 2019

[Mr A Tis]

Have Eastern completely given up on MAN-SOU. ? Not seen one for sometime & although in their drop down menu-no longer bookable.

I guess the 2+ hour security issues knocked the 50 minute flight on the head . With the train disruptions, it could/should of been a boost for Eastern & similar routes.

[Wycombe]

Have Eastern completely given up on MAN-SOU. ? Not seen one for sometime & although in their drop down menu-no longer bookable.

I guess the 2+ hour security issues knocked the 50 minute flight on the head . With the train disruptions, it could/should of been a boost for Eastern & similar routes.
I reckon they're holding off as they are expecting BEE to launch it (from their allegedly soon to be announced SOU base)

[airhumberside]

SOU-MAN is bookable Monday 12th September onwards

[chaps1954]

July and August are always weak due school holidays as are most business flights

[SWBKCB]

Think they are also short of a/c since the TAP deal, having been subbing in for recent Premier League charters. Another Atr72 due according to Jethro's

[Bbtengineer]

First time through MAN in a long while and outbound through T2 mid morning yesterday.

Would rate the experience as very poor.

For the bits I think MAG have a hand in:

39 minutes to pick us up from the car rental village and deposit us at the terminal

21 minutes because the check-in desk does not accept a regular hold-all because “it is soft”. Directed to an outsize bag drop in area G that was closed. Walk to area A to queue and then deposit a bag that every other airport we use would have accepted at initial check-in. Walk back to security.

73 minutes for security.

18 minutes to queue again at security for manual baggage screening as one bag was rejected due to “not being scanned” the first time through. Bag rescanned and accepted without issue.

Seems churlish to mention the broken travelator.

Arrived on campus 8.40am and made a 1.10pm departure with a few minutes to spare.

[CabinCrewe]

interesting height of summer and EI UK ‘slash’ their MAN-US fares in a flash sale, with at least £100 off everything…
Make of it what you will..

[Mark J Bowcock]

interesting height of summer and EI UK ‘slash’ their MAN-US fares in a flash sale, with at least £100 off everything…
Make of it what you will..

Can I ask what’s your issue with Manchester Airport? Someone got a sale on so it’s all doom and gloom and if you read it properly it’s for September and October dates when the kids have gone back!

[Shamrock350]

interesting height of summer and EI UK ‘slash’ their MAN-US fares in a flash sale, with at least £100 off everything…
Make of it what you will..
Same promotion is available from DUB and SNN, for the same time period of 01 Sep - 31 Oct. It’s their standard off peak sale.

[Una Due Tfc]

Reading in an Irish forum that the LR is returning to DUB next year to launch DUB-BUF. MAN will have 2 x based A330s. Many speculating it will be the 2 remaining A332s stored since the pandemic (EI-DAA & EI-DUO) which EI have confirmed are being reactivated this winter. This is potentially due to the delays in delivery of the 321XLRs next year.

[daz211]

Reading in an Irish forum that the LR is returning to DUB next year to launch DUB-BUF. MAN will have 2 x based A330s. Many speculating it will be the 2 remaining A332s stored since the pandemic (EI-DAA & EI-DUO) which EI have confirmed are being reactivated this winter. This is potentially due to the delays in delivery of the 321XLRs next year.
I am flying MAN-JFK Business with EI in a few days, due to BA cancelling my feeder to LHR.
I have avoided this direct route due to my own preference of a single isle aircraft crossing the pond.
I have to say so far their customer service has been outstanding (online) I hope the onboard service is at the same level then I won’t be disappointed.

[Rutan16]

I am flying MAN-JFK Business with EI in a few days, due to BA cancelling my feeder to LHR.
I have avoided this direct route due to my own preference of a single isle aircraft crossing the pond.
I have to say so far their customer service has been outstanding (online) I hope the onboard service is at the same level then I won’t be disappointed.

Where you say preference , do you mean personal bias “against” ?

Never quite understood that to be honest , if seat pitch is good enough and if up front as fold downs for x2 to x5 times the base price what difference does an extra aisle make

You know the reason for twin aisles is largely to cram more seats within the same length of tube by gauge , no other reason !

And largely determined by limited ground parking real estate!

[daz211]

Where you say preference , do you mean personal bias “against” ?

Never quite understood that to be honest , if seat pitch is good enough and if up front as fold downs for x2 to x5 times the base price what difference does an extra aisle make

You know the reason for twin aisles is largely to cram more seats within the same length of tube by gauge , no other reason !

And largely determined by limited ground parking real estate!

Yes totally my own personal preference, even though I have the single seat in row 5 with flat bed I still prefer the new BA B772 business cabin I also like to go for a wander up to the back and back down the other isle to stretch my legs, I guess it’s worse for economy passengers.

[Bbtengineer]

Yes totally my own personal preference, even though I have the single seat in row 5 with flat bed I still prefer the new BA B772 business cabin I also like to go for a wander up to the back and back down the other isle to stretch my legs, I guess it’s worse for economy passengers.

Be interested what you thought of it.

Must admit I’ve always taken the direct route even an angle flat 752 over via ABL, because the extra time, hassle and risk of the domestic sector being disrupted just weren’t worth it.

[Seljuk22]

EK021/022 which will resume on 1st October with B777 will be switched to A380 eff. 30th October meaning EK will operate 3 daily A380 to MAN again starting winter timetable.

[Rutan16]

A rather bizarre caricature of a LCC passenger there. In reality, the attributes and characteristics of a passenger invariably depends upon their destination as opposed to the airline which they are flying.

Your average second home owner flying down to Faro displays the same characteristics as when they fly away for their long haul south East Asian holiday with Emirates.

No you are generalising rather than profiling as an analysis would . There is an interesting coralation by another on the Liverpool construction thread I know you visit that pretty much agrees with this when comparing Leeds and Liverpool experiences ; specifically IT passengers with luggage and Easyjet /Ryan experience where the vast majority of the customer base avoid paying for hold baggage

Indeed as I said it’s the very foundation of the flexible fares business model !

Easyjet and the hold baggage measures at the gates also means the few bags that fail and go in the hold for extras primarily by pass the airport baggage systems a further advantage over say 80 kgs of luggage for a family on an Tui or Jet2 holiday flight

Its not bazaar it’s an observation

Destination is irrelevant more rather time away .Two weeks in Jersey at a hotel or two weeks in Dubai for the family demands a considerable amount of baggage .

A few days in Faro probably not !

Indeed your reference of second homers and my own experience ( I have a home in Nantes and once had a home in Carnaxide) is things such as golf clubs remain in the second home and aren’t routinely airfreighted so to speak.

The dears that spend winter in Malta or Cyprus travel out of peak for the most part !
( many are regrettably going to fall foul of 90 in 180 day rule this coming winter, a great pity as their long stays frequently save them a lot of money whilst also reduce the risk of many health problems in the more temperate climb’s) Many will have voted for Brexit no doubt !

That said Dubai seems a potential beneficiary if you have a few million spare ( sell your Malta/ Cyprus home ) and move .
You can stay 30 days and extended to 60 days without a full visa I believe and up to three months with a Visa