Manchester-3

[HKGBOY]

They won’t be making much money in retail etc if the pax are queuing for hours.
(some) airlines charge more for checked baggage than passengers & this is the service they provide.
I’m due back into MAN tomorrow evening & have an outbound next week.
After these trips I won’t be booking any more flights out of MAN for the foreseeable.

[simoncorbett]

They will on fast track ….

[Fonz121]

Slightly off topic, but my wife is due out of MAN on Friday afternoon on EK as staff and she’s worried about making the transfer to Australia in Dubai due to all of this.

Is anyone familiar with the staff process with EK out of Manchester? Does a standby ticket allow you to get through security asap or do you need to hang around the check in desks until the flight closes?

Also, she was thinking about going out of Gatwick instead. Would this really be worthwhile? It doesn't seem to be much better.

**Disregard. Changed to LHR

[DP.]

Personally think they should stay in T2 with all the chaos in T1 atm but I do understand that T2 is near capacity

T2 appears to have been the worse of the two over the weekend. Queues of well over an hour yesterday.


Manchester is overly in the spot light because of a vocal locale and active media presence in the city region; and active enthusiasts with visuals on various platforms trolled by lazy hacks .


It is also, in large part, because the airport has very little good will from passengers thanks to the experience that was provided pre-pandemic. People might have a little more sympathy for the current situation were it not for memories of a similar (albeit not as bad as currently) experience prior to the pandemic.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Know so many people who would normally fly from MAN are now flying out of LPL, LBA, BHX and LHR/LGW for long haul flights.

But it’s no better at any of those airports🙄🙄

[BACsuperVC10]

A friend flew through LPL last Thursday, was busy he said through security, but nothing untoward .

[TURIN]

But it’s no better at any of those airports🙄🙄

Swissport have been drafting in employees from other UK airports. Belfast, Glasgow, Liverpool, Luton. Overtime rates and hotel accommodation thrown in. So, there must be spare staff somewhere. From what I have heard the local MAN based staff are at the end of their tether, even with triple time being offered, at some point you need a day off or two. Looking at the faces today you can see they are utterly knackered.

[DP.]

Swissport have been drafting in employees from other UK airports. Belfast, Glasgow, Liverpool, Luton. Overtime rates and hotel accommodation thrown in.

That certainly won't be coming cheap, looking at the price of the hotels around the airport at present.

[lfc84]

This made me smirk

https://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/help/passenger-guides/security/

"Lipsticks, lip balms and stick deodorants are not classed as liquids."

Lots of people report that they get stopped due to lipsticks....


and then this one:


"Please note - if you wish to bring your own containers to hold 100ml or less, the container must have printed on it the measurement that the container can hold. Travel sets of containers that do not have measurements on them will not be allowed through security. Handwritten measurements or stickers are also not acceptable."

Particuarly with reference to the two lines in bold above. Can anyone point to the legislation for this?

[True Blue]

I made the post below on 16.03.2019. There have been too many comments/issues around Manchester airport for it all just to have some simple explanation. For me, there seems to be a culture issue at this airport. Not much has changes from my post three years ago.

"Arrived in Manchester airport on Wednesday afternoon, T3. What I did notice on the walk from T3 to the train station was the number of buckets sitting to catch water leaking through the roof. Most of the moving walkway was out of service, why? Essential maintenance said the signs, but not one maintenance worker to be seen.

I departed again Thursday afternoon. Got to security, not that many in front of me. Guy at the front of security coming down the line, frequently, telling us to make sure we had all out of our bags as they were getting a lot of rejections and it would take at least 40 minutes for it to be checked at the other side of security. 40 minutes, this in the middle of March. What would that not be like at the height of the season? They were wanting everything out, including hair straighteners etc? First time I have heard that requirement. It took a long time to even get to the scanners as passengers were taking so long to get everything out that was needed, plus there was a shortage of trays as so many were waiting to be checked.

Into the waiting area/terminal, what a depressing place. Few seats, most coffee shops/bars etc busy as people just go in there and sit. Is there no quality places in there to eat at all?

Gate called, gate 142 in think. Anyway, we had to go through scanners to check our photographs. I think there were 2 scanners, then one for manual checking. So they call 4 flights at once, several hundred pax trying to get through very few scanners. System not working for many of them, although for many, it was their own fault as they were not even looking up. Maybe they didn't know what to do, although some can never learn. Then we had quite a number seem to have gone through the scanners to then realise they were at the wrong gates. They were trying to get back out, but no, you just can't walk back out. More chaos as they were trying to get out against those trying to come in but needed manual checking. The people who design these systems and procedures seem to lack all common sense, but a lot of this is driven by cost cutting, airports don't want to pay for enough/any staff to make things run smoothly. They should be given their P45's for sheer stupidy.

To summarise my experience, too many items not working like lifts/walkways. That has to be down to no maintenance, there were too many for it to be coincidence. Manchester Airport is a collection of buildings just thrown together, moving from T3 to the train station we were in/out, up and down, just a nonsense. Security is a joke and not fit for purpose. Boarding experience, just awful.

Manchester Airport is a complete disgrace, I will only use it if I have to, but it will be a last resort."

[Mark J Bowcock]

I made the post below on 16.03.2019. There have been too many comments/issues around Manchester airport for it all just to have some simple explanation. For me, there seems to be a culture issue at this airport. Not much has changes from my post three years ago.

"Arrived in Manchester airport on Wednesday afternoon, T3. What I did notice on the walk from T3 to the train station was the number of buckets sitting to catch water leaking through the roof. Most of the moving walkway was out of service, why? Essential maintenance said the signs, but not one maintenance worker to be seen.

I departed again Thursday afternoon. Got to security, not that many in front of me. Guy at the front of security coming down the line, frequently, telling us to make sure we had all out of our bags as they were getting a lot of rejections and it would take at least 40 minutes for it to be checked at the other side of security. 40 minutes, this in the middle of March. What would that not be like at the height of the season? They were wanting everything out, including hair straighteners etc? First time I have heard that requirement. It took a long time to even get to the scanners as passengers were taking so long to get everything out that was needed, plus there was a shortage of trays as so many were waiting to be checked.

Into the waiting area/terminal, what a depressing place. Few seats, most coffee shops/bars etc busy as people just go in there and sit. Is there no quality places in there to eat at all?

Gate called, gate 142 in think. Anyway, we had to go through scanners to check our photographs. I think there were 2 scanners, then one for manual checking. So they call 4 flights at once, several hundred pax trying to get through very few scanners. System not working for many of them, although for many, it was their own fault as they were not even looking up. Maybe they didn't know what to do, although some can never learn. Then we had quite a number seem to have gone through the scanners to then realise they were at the wrong gates. They were trying to get back out, but no, you just can't walk back out. More chaos as they were trying to get out against those trying to come in but needed manual checking. The people who design these systems and procedures seem to lack all common sense, but a lot of this is driven by cost cutting, airports don't want to pay for enough/any staff to make things run smoothly. They should be given their P45's for sheer stupidy.

To summarise my experience, too many items not working like lifts/walkways. That has to be down to no maintenance, there were too many for it to be coincidence. Manchester Airport is a collection of buildings just thrown together, moving from T3 to the train station we were in/out, up and down, just a nonsense. Security is a joke and not fit for purpose. Boarding experience, just awful.

Manchester Airport is a complete disgrace, I will only use it if I have to, but it will be a last resort."

To walk from T3 to the railway station you have to walk into T1 use the lift or escalator up to the walkway to the train station then down in the lift or escalator into the train station! So what is the issue with that? Do you want to get off the plane straight into the train then? They wouldn’t have called 4 flights through the scanners (142) as there isn’t 4 gates to go to once in there! And how is it Manchester airports fault if people read a gate incorrectly and go to the wrong place! If you read the news all major airports in the U.K. are struggling with the amount of passengers versus staff! If you don’t want to travel trough Manchester again WELL DONT! But I seriously think you will be back.

[True Blue]

Mark, you keep your head in the sand. And don't for one minute think I need Manchester airport, I have plenty of other options.

[Mark J Bowcock]

Mark, you keep your head in the sand. And don't for one minute think I need Manchester airport, I have plenty of other options.

Ah ok straight back with an insult! Good luck with them other airports then!

[lfc84]

Karen Smart, MD, has resigned

[VickersVicount]

Karen Smart, MD, has resigned
But will make zero difference. Multi issues outwith one MD

[GSM763]

To walk from T3 to the railway station you have to walk into T1 use the lift or escalator up to the walkway to the train station then down in the lift or escalator into the train station! So what is the issue with that? Do you want to get off the plane straight into the train then? They wouldn’t have called 4 flights through the scanners (142) as there isn’t 4 gates to go to once in there! And how is it Manchester airports fault if people read a gate incorrectly and go to the wrong place! If you read the news all major airports in the U.K. are struggling with the amount of passengers versus staff! If you don’t want to travel trough Manchester again WELL DONT! But I seriously think you will be back.

I'm pretty sure there are? There are gates 142-144 along the corridor and then a collection of gates downstairs (145-149? Been a while so I don't recall the exact numbers). A BA and 3x Flybe flights departing at roughly the same time in March 2019 doesn't strike me as unusual.

[OzzyOzBorn]

I would argue that Karen Smart is something of a scapegoat here. She only took the job at Manchester Airport in July 2020. By that time, the pandemic shutdown was well underway and the big decisions on how many staff should go had already been made. Manchester Airport's record of cutting costs to the max and skimping on investment in the day-to-day running of the airport have been a hallmark of the tenure of CHARLIE CORNISH, the invisible man when things go wrong. We have to rely on an anonymous spokesperson. Perhaps Karen is carrying the can for his poor decisions?

We know that Manchester Airport kept its 'new routes' team on furlough far too long, allowing competing airports to steal a march. Did the same policy apply to other MAG staff positions, including security? Those decisions come from the top. Was it Karen's call - or Charlie's? She wasn't in post to get rid of them all in the first place. And a brain-drain of experienced staff has been the price exacted. A false economy, as we see now.

In mitigation, we must recall that Rishi Sunak's long-promised "bespoke deal to help our aviation industry" never transpired in anything beyond token form. Much of the public anger against Boris actually relates to terrible decisions imposed by Sunak. In consequence, whilst sectors such as restaurants and hospitality received generous taxpayer support (cue Sunak photo-opps), our devastated airports got £272m between them - largely accounted for by generic schemes open to all employers. In contrast, German airports were supported to the tune of £2.1Bn - and their airlines did very nicely too. Our lot just cited climate dogma as an excuse for throwing our industry under the bus. And they offered only opaque messaging about when crazy covid testing, hokey-cokey quarantine rules and useless passenger locator forms would be axed. Impossible to plan without clarity on this.

But despite this, a good share of the blame must still rest with Charlie Cornish. He has a long record of skimping and under-investing going back to the good times ... long before anyone had heard of covid. His rap-sheet also includes presiding over the planned destruction of Manchester Airport's whole-plane cargo-handling capability (HIS policy to boost East Midlands and Stansted) - he should resign for that alone. He also resisted investing in T3 expansion to cope with known Ryanair growth plans - he preferred to see additional proposed based units turned away. That damages our region. And the shocking hangar-lettings debacle happened on his watch - it remains unresolved. Set against this, he presided over the TP investment, though he insisted that be 'value engineered' to the bone. General investment in T1 and T3 has been deferred or done as cheaply as possible. Wages are kept to an absolute minimum. Broken travellators go unrepaired / unreplaced indefinitely, no bus transfer alternative provided. This man will not be remembered fondly as a visionary in the mould of Sir Gil Thompson.

Karen Smart is the fall-girl. She didn't have long enough to recover a situation which she inherited. The real questions should be asked of SUNAK and CORNISH.

[The96er]

I'm pretty sure there are? There are gates 142-144 along the corridor and then a collection of gates downstairs (145-149? Been a while so I don't recall the exact numbers). A BA and 3x Flybe flights departing at roughly the same time in March 2019 doesn't strike me as unusual.

Gates 142 and 143 are on the main corridor and then down the stairs at the end to gates 144,146, 148 and 150 (bussing gate). During the 8am and 4pm rush pre Covid, it was quite possible for all the gates to be in use at the same time.

[YVRscot]

According to the BBC she has gone:

Story on BBC News homepage

[lfc84]

They can't blame additional summmer flights cos this has been happening since mid March. The only ones to blame are themselves. They've tried to blame passengers at security, rising number of travellers, etc but failed to look in the mirror and hold their hands up.

The statement tonight is just a joke:Charlie Cornish, the group's chief executive officer, said Ms Smart had guided the airport "through the most challenging period of its 84-year history".

He added that while there would be further challenges ahead, he was "confident we will soon start to see the benefits of the recovery plans Ms Smart has helped put in place".

Yes, it's been a challening period, fair enough, but the second part is truly insulting to passengers who witnesed first hand thing going from bad to worse.

Would anyone like to clarify what he means by SOON ?

This is from 2019 and is why I write "bad to worse"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50055255

Manchester Airport passengers face 'longest security queues' in UK

[eye2eye5]

Ah. So OzyOzBorn is Shed on a pole who used an identical script on another site. Never let a good rant get in the way of hiding your other identity!

[Mr Mac]

The cynic in me suggests that if, as a business looking to employ such tactics, you allow stories about queues and misery to run, and don't put the necessary investment into offering a half decent service to all your customers, these kinds of "revenue generation" can, and probably do become very beneficial to the bottom line. Its actually a disgraceful way to run a customer facing business if this were the M.O.

I really don't understand why major airports, such as Manchester, don't play hard ball with the airlines, especially the usual suspects, and make them pay or leave. Often, by charging insufficient for a service or product you are behaving as a busy fool, and working smart is often better than working hard.

Do these kinds of fast track service exist in any kind of widespread way in many other countries? I suspect they might in Anglo Saxon nations such as USA, Canada, Australia but somehow doubt they would be so widespread in mainland Europe.
ATNotts
I have only seen them in the UK as far a I re call. I do not remember seeing them or using them in the US, but it is rare that I go there now, and they were definitely not available in Houston which was my last visit last autumn. I do not go to Australia or Canada so could not comment on those places, however it did help me at MAN and my bag came off around 10th so Seat to Chauffer 45min, but think I was lucky. Back out on LH on Monday so will see what that brings.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[Manchester South]

I made the post below on 16.03.2019. There have been too many comments/issues around Manchester airport for it all just to have some simple explanation. For me, there seems to be a culture issue at this airport. Not much has changes from my post three years ago.
......"

Totally agree. I'm local, and have used the airport quite a lot for business travel and for family travel over many years. The passenger experience has been steadily getting worse for several years pre-covid. The excuses of "unexpected numbers of passengers" and so on are nothing new. It is a cash cow, exploited for short term returns with minimum investment. Just about patching up the existing assets, trying to get by day to day with the least resources.

Now and then you come across a rude staff member, but these days I've a lot of sympathy for them. Look around T1 security & contemplate doing a shift in that place every day ....

Yes , all airports may have problems at the moment. But there are features at Manchester that are directly the management's fault that make things worse. The inadequate spaces in all the passenger areas, check in, security, departures, immigration and baggage reclaim are all cramped. Any hold up just spreads rapidly - in no time at all there are people queuing outside the terminal buildings & photos in the Evening News. I can't recall a similar major airport that is so pokey. Changes over the years have made the lack of space worse, not improved things. Space for shops. Not for seating or queuing, or for adequate numbers of E-gates, or security equipment, or just for a more pleasant ambiance. Likewise, investiment in equipment is at the lowest possible, and no slack or spares. I think there were 5-6 E-gates at T1 originally, now 10 or 12. Other large airports have many more. A trival example, in January coming back through T1, early afternoon & still fairly quiet because of covid, no wait at immigration, but a huge crush trying to pass through the customs area. Turned out to be only one of the double door barriers to leave the controlled area was working - out of nowhere on a quiet day there is a blockage. No maintenance team to be seen, neither any staff trying to help or inform.

A leading regional airport in a G7 country. So the peer group should be places like Munich or Nagoya perhaps ! It is laughable. Perhaps being a bit more realistic, I had used Gatwick a couple of time pre-covid , once at half-term, once at the start of summer holiday. Absolute peak times, very crowded. I believe Gatwick gets a lot of criticism too, but I found it much more tolerable experience than Manchester at similar conditions.

[Manchester South]

T ... And how is it Manchester airports fault if people read a gate incorrectly and go to the wrong place! ...
Well, the layout and signage has a role, also that the staff (or the software at an unmanned barrier) let someone pass through to the wrong area. Some of the T1 gates are more or less on top of each other or share a little lobby area, and it is common to ask / be asked "is this queue for ...?" because it is far from obvious when you join from the back of the queue.

[BasilBush]

Fast track services are very common (virtually universal) on departures (security) but less common on arrivals. Most Far Eastern airports offer expedited immigration for premium class pax, for example. In the US, you can register for Global Entry, which ensures seamless entry through border control and customs.

The US also offers TSA pre-check, which speeds up departures security and ensures you don’t have to get out your liquids, take off your coat/shoes/belt etc. If only the UK authorities offered such a service to pre-screened travellers.

[OzzyOzBorn]

I'm not hiding anything. Only one ID on here.

[AirportPlanner1]

One point to note about race to the bottom...this might be a legitimate argument for LTN and STN and anywhere else where LCCs make up virtually all traffic. Whereas MAN handles a number of premium carriers and airlines with premium passengers eg BA who surely expect and/or pay for better. So you’d have to conclude the issue is well and truly with poor management.

As an aside, STN which is of course within the same group yet is even more reliant on LCCs does not appear to be experiencing problems to anywhere near the same degree.

[Manchester Exile]

There are no fast track security queues in Australia, unless you count a separate lane for top-tier frequent flyers. However, those lanes are rarely policed, so anyone can go in there and there's little to no benefit of joining that queue. Either way, on domestic routes you are generally through security in five minutes, maybe ten on a bad day. International routes take a bit longer to clear security, but you would normally be through within ten minutes, or fifteen on a busy day.

It has been a couple of years since I last traveled internationally, for obvious reasons, but I don't recall paid-for fast-track security anywhere in the APAC region.

The whole Manchester airport experience is generally diabolical, although it has been three years since I was last there. Broken travellators, dripping water from the ceiling, long security queues, arriving aircraft waiting for a handler to drive the airbridge, interminable baggage delays etc. It is without a doubt the absolute worst airport I've ever been to, and I have over 3 million flown miles under my belt. The tragedy of it is that it used to be a wonderful airport under previous management regimes. I worked there back in the early 90's and can be regarded as a "supporter" (which is why I read this forum every day), but it's an appalling passenger experience. I've convinced friends and colleagues to fly into Manchester rather than LHR and as a result severely tested those friendships. One wonders how much better the passenger figures would be if the management got their act together and made it a seamless, pleasant experience.

I'm flying in to Manchester on Emirates in May, and out again a couple of days later on SAS. On one hand, I'm keen to check the place out again after a three-year break, but on the other I'm despondent about what I'll experience.

[Navpi]

There have been numerous strategic failures at Manchester in various areas over a 10 year period, i love the gall of more senior MAG management having the cheek to thank KS for her contribution. A non too subtle ploy that is a backhander suggesting it's all her fault, It isnt.

Whilst i disagreed with an MD from a small regional taking over a major gateway she is being made scapegoat, those above need to get a grip.

Reputationally they have dismantled Man Airport in every area since taking over.

The sooner the ice cream man goes the better.

[MAN777]

Manchester Exile dont expect anything nice on return with EK, business or economy you will all be dumped together to walk the old pier B (Terminal 1) into the immigration Qs, Business class need pre booked fast track to get a smooth pass.

Dubai terminals are class, EK A380s are class, step off into Manchester terminal 1 what an embarrassment. The contrast could not be any more extreme.

Regardless I will continue to use Manchester, despite its shortcomings its still my airport, I just wish there was an instant solution to the problems, realistically it will take time, we dont have the Billions of the Middle East, but we do have plans to move forward with ongoing additions to T2. There are many airports within the UK that can only dream of what we have.

[Mr Mac]

MAN777
I agree with you, it is a bit of a culture shock coming of the EK 380 and down the obstacles course of Pier B and the famous none working escalators (now fixed) after coming out of DXB. However we should point out that travelling on Business or even First Class does have privileges, and indeed other airports around the world do indeed segregate these passengers so there is not a need for Fast Track for them. The comments about immigration and security is more to do with the more std passenger experience, who do not get these privileges as part their ticket and in that Manchester is currently failing badly. However as my wife proved travelling on EasyJet to Aqaba a couple of weeks from Manchester she got through all the mayhem by paying for Fast Track in and out bound and was through in and outbound in circa 50 min. The point is that she / we can afford to pay for this, and indeed often get this with travel ticket on other carriers, but many can not, and to be honest the experience from what I observed the other week when outbound on LH during the first day of the chaos getting noticed looked appalling and reminded me of flights out of the old Delhi terminals in the early 2000,s. The std has to be improved but it appears that the whole structure and indeed ethos of the place seems to have taken a battering and apart from the fact that the flights available and it’s location make it attractive for me I do not think I would use it by preference. Have to say EK lounge is still one of my favourites in T1 though 🙂

Cheers
Mr Mac

[roverman]

It's just my opinion, but there are parallels which can be drawn between the root problems at MAN and those at MUFC. Both institutions are close to my heart, but that's not the link!
Both MAN and MUFC have enjoyed strong local support, both have had notable success in the past, but more recently seen ownership structures change and focus move gradually away from the core product and their role in the local economy, towards maximising profitability of the business. Growing 'brand', volume, and revenues through acquisitions and/or non-core business have been a key feature of this change. Both institutions appear to have lost touch with their customers and their traditional values, instead pursuing returns for investors as the top priority. All this has now come home to roost with a very marked drop off in performance and reputation which will most likely hit the bottom line before long. It looks to be a rather long way back for both.

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

Thank you Roverman for an excellent analogue of the situation. Both Gordon Sweetapple & Sir Gil would be tearing their hair out if they were around today. If only there were people of the same calibre out there with the Airport in their hearts.

[HKGBOY]

What joy it was to pass through Porto Airport yesterday. An airport that (pre covid) handled half the number of pax than Manchester. Vast spacious areas - Landside ! Lots of facilities - Landside, Lots of seating Landside. Minimal queues at check in desks, 5 minutes through security- even less through passport control. Virtually all shops airside open, plenty of seating & space.
We sat waiting for our easyJet arriving from Manchester- delayed just the one hour, on its two hour turnaround at Manchester on its previous sector. We watched the Ryanair's coming in & departing to Liverpool, Dublin & Edinburgh all on time. What a dismal experience T1 is, last week outbound, nowhere to sit, Pret filthy tables, grubby horrible terminal.Sat on board 45 minutes waiting for the bags to be loaded for Lisbon. I have to pass through this mess again over Easter, but rest assured this will be the last time for a very long time I fly from here.
I have nothing but admiration for the people that work here & have to suffer the pigsty everyday. The "Smart" answer would be for those above Ms Smart to bugger off & get some professionals in.
Sir Gil must be spinning in his grave if he could see how they have transformed a proud regional airport into a global embarrassment.

[SWBKCB]

It's just my opinion, but there are parallels which can be drawn between the root problems at MAN and those at MUFC. Both institutions are close to my heart, but that's not the link!
Both MAN and MUFC have enjoyed strong local support, both have had notable success in the past, but more recently seen ownership structures change and focus move gradually away from the core product and their role in the local economy, towards maximising profitability of the business. Growing 'brand', volume, and revenues through acquisitions and/or non-core business have been a key feature of this change. Both institutions appear to have lost touch with their customers and their traditional values, instead pursuing returns for investors as the top priority. All this has now come home to roost with a very marked drop off in performance and reputation which will most likely hit the bottom line before long. It looks to be a rather long way back for both.

Lets not fall into the trap of falling thinking everything was great in the olden days. When the council had the monopoly of baggage handling and stairs etc, they weren't exactly customer focused - we had loads of delays waiting for marshallers to remove air bridges, crews to load/unload bags, move stairs etc - and they were untouchable.

[ATNotts]

Lets not fall into the trap of falling thinking everything was great in the olden days. When the council had the monopoly of baggage handling and stairs etc, they weren't exactly customer focused - we had loads of delays waiting for marshallers to remove air brideges, crews to load/unload bags, move stairs etc - and they were untouchable.

Not to mention more than one quite long strike that basically shut their airport for a couple of weeks.

[MANFAN]

Is there anything more on the councils meeting with the airport management?

I assume the shareholders/management aren't willing to spend anything substantial on making any improvements to T1...I say this because after the 2nd Pier in T2 and refurb is complete, in theory T1 should be closed?
I was just thinking is there anyway the security area can be extended? But then were in a catch 22 situation...no staff so no point!

I'm arriving into MAN on Good Friday with Ryanair and back out on Easter Monday...I'm dreading it!
The T3 immigration area is another area not fit for purpose...is there anyway this can be extended? I just hope they have got rid of that horrible carpet in T3 arrivals!

[ATNotts]

Is there anything more on the councils meeting with the airport management?

The T3 immigration area is another area not fit for purpose...is there anyway this can be extended? I just hope they have got rid of that horrible carpet in T3 arrivals!

By the sound of things the carpet in T3 is way down the list of things that need replacing!

[OzzyOzBorn]

I was just thinking is there anyway the security area can be extended?

There is actually ample spare capacity in the security scanning areas. The issue is that many lanes are left idle due to lack of staff to operate them. The machinery to cope with a substantial increase in throughput is already in place. It is normal to see less than half of the available scanners in use.

[2Planks]

It looks like the 'arms length' approach to the management of MAN by the majority shareholder has failed.
That majority shareholder is the 10 local councils who together own just short of 2 thirds of MAG.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Isn't the problem the scanners are ancient and so drive far too many into secondary search as they can't safely see dangerous articles from harmless ones? Or is that just the special Manchester way of doing security again?
THIS debacle is not just about lack of staff, security at MAN has been a huge pain point for experienced travellers for years. Is the old head of security still in place? If so, nought will change.

It's the people at the top that are the problem, not the front line who are set up to fail as they are not given either the tools (arguable IMHO) or the management support (missing) to succeed.

[Rutan16]

Skip right on the head of security IS the core of the problem . Can’t see wood for trees .
Massive risk issue with the pre check penning for a few Chanel 150mil bottles !
One idiot could do a magnitude of harm here and in a city where a tragedy has already happened in crowds
Head of Security at MAG Group needs to go Now

[roverman]

It looks like the 'arms length' approach to the management of MAN by the majority shareholder has failed.
That majority shareholder is the 10 local councils who together own just short of 2 thirds of MAG.

True, but only MCC has voting rights, shared 50/50 with IFM. The other 9 GM councils get a dividend but have had no say in the running of the business since the purchase of Stansted.

[back to Boeing]

Manchester security have been absolutely the worst in the country for the 12 years I have had anything to do with them as both passenger and employee for airlines based there. Generally downright rude. The number of rejected bags an absolute farce and “operatives” making up rules on the hop. However the rots from the head.

Going through fast track at Manchester takes me the same time as going through Amsterdam normal queue with quite frankly a fraction of the passenger numbers. I’d hoped the new facilities at T2 would be better, and by the looks of things they are significantly better than T1, but starting from -10 it’s not an accolade to be proud of.

the airport can blame Easter holidays and Covid all it wants. But it is the management that is rotten. It has been for over a decade. It’s just taken the events of the last few weeks to expose their utter failings.

[HOVIS]

Bit unfair blaming all this on MAG. Handling agents are not owned or run by MAG. Neither are the refuellers, engineers or cleaners. They're all short staffed and they all cause knock on delays.

[SWBKCB]

In a statement which criticises Manchester Airport for acting too late on recruitment, insufficient communication to passengers and management of queues, Mayor Andy Burnham has revealed measures to ease the ongoing crisis at the hub, caused mainly by a staff shortage. He also warned that 'disruption' was expected to continue for 'two months'.

While Greater Manchester's councils are majority shareholders in Manchester Airports Group (MAG), the day-to-day operation is usually outside the remit of both the town halls and the Mayor's office. However, Mr Burnham said they would 'work to support them in any way they can' until they have resolved the issues caused by the pandemic.

The Mayor said this would include an increased police presence at the hub, while transport staff from the bus and tram network would be drafted in to help with 'queue management and communication'.

Amid long waits for Home Office security clearance for new recurits, the mayor said he would also write to the Minister for Security and Borders asking if airports including Manchester could be prioritised in the process. This could mean that the 220 staff currently waiting to start at the hub could be out on the floor sooner.

The plan also includes:


Increased overtime and more temporary staff
More staff to 'organise' passengers passing through the airport
Better information for queuing passengers and 'steps' to look after the welfare of those waiting for a long time
More real-time information on security queues to be published on the Manchester Airport website
Some airlines to offer bag check-in the night before flights if they are booked on an early service.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/mayor-andy-burnham-reveals-action-23616419

[Pain in the R's]

The bottom line is that people were made redundant due covid, found other jobs due to a labour shortage due Brexit and don’t want to go back to an airport job that doesn’t pay a wage rate that reflects the inconvenience of a 24/7 shift pattern.

[Asturias56]

"While Greater Manchester's councils are majority shareholders in Manchester Airports Group (MAG), the day-to-day operation is usually outside the remit of both the town halls and the Mayor's office"

So no direct "stakeholder" involvement - a nice cushy number where you set your own rules and PI's

[Mr A Tis]

Skip is spot on here Isn't the problem the scanners are ancient and so drive far too many into secondary search .

I have recently been through 3 overseas airport & looked at the security bag rejections. I would say something like 1% are tracked for secondary screening. Passing through Manchester T1 last week this was well over 50%. Either the MAN training is useless or as I suspect, the Scanners are like the travelators & escalators- Cheap, old and/or knackered.
I had thought the T2 new ones would be much better, but no still 50+% bag rejection rates.
More & more airports now don't even have to have liquids removed, or it may be just liquids not electrical- here it's almost everything.
It's about investment in equipment, not just staffing.
Under Cornish it's been short term cheapness for maximum profit, hence also the scaled back T2 experience. Wooden benches & seats (same as used at Leeds train station). No check-in area seating. A check in area toilet with one urinal etc etc. Cheap, cheap, cheap is the motto at this place. In arrivals landside, something like 10 washbasins in the Gents- but 2 hand dryers. Penny pinchers.
There are no plans to replace or repair the Skylink travelators, nor the bus station passenger information screens that have been broke for 3 years.

[eye2eye5]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/06/outrage-over-huge-pay-rises-for-manchester-airports-group-bosses?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[Manchester South]

"The plan also includes:

More staff to 'organise' passengers passing through the airport
Better information for queuing passengers and 'steps' to look after the welfare of those waiting for a long time"

Back in the day , pre-covid. if there were long queues at security there was often a staff member or two working up the line, calling out the next departures & bringing people to the front, as well as generally calming things down. Seemed to be pretty common early mornings in T3 especially. I've not seen that at Manchester in the last two or three years, and the reports of the recent chaos suggest it isn't happening now. If stuck in a long queue, it was reassuring to know that at worst you'd be called through at the last minute and still make your flight. Reduced the stress and pre-empted any unoffical queue-jumping and arguments. A simple short -term measure . Doesn't need trained staff to call out a list of flight numbers , don't need to pull trained people off scanners etc - even managers could get down on the shop floor and help out !

[ICEHOUSES]

"The plan also includes:

More staff to 'organise' passengers passing through the airport
Better information for queuing passengers and 'steps' to look after the welfare of those waiting for a long time"

Back in the day , pre-covid. if there were long queues at security there was often a staff member or two working up the line, calling out the next departures & bringing people to the front, as well as generally calming things down. Seemed to be pretty common early mornings in T3 especially. I've not seen that at Manchester in the last two or three years, and the reports of the recent chaos suggest it isn't happening now. If stuck in a long queue, it was reassuring to know that at worst you'd be called through at the last minute and still make your flight. Reduced the stress and pre-empted any unoffical queue-jumping and arguments. A simple short -term measure . Doesn't need trained staff to call out a list of flight numbers , don't need to pull trained people off scanners etc - even managers could get down on the shop floor and help out !
Why the hell should people queue jump over other pax who arrived at the airport in good time, this used to happen in T3 many times before covid, Ryanair pax being rushed through in front of other waiting pax at the security scanner at their convenience, just because they didn’t leave enough time to get to the airport.

[Manchester South]

Why the hell should people queue jump over other pax who arrived at the airport in good time, this used to happen in T3 many times before covid, Ryanair pax being rushed through in front of other waiting pax at the security scanner at their convenience, just because they didn’t leave enough time to get to the airport.
You're right , latecomers perhaps don't deserve it. But it was an attempt to manage the problems & get the maximum nr of people onto their flights.

[lfc84]

If check in closes 1 hour prior to departure it is not unreasonable (in normal circumstances) to contemplate an arrival at security 1 hour prior to departure and expect to make it to the gate by the gate closure time

[Mr A Tis]

If you are flying with the likes of Loganair, Eastern or Aurigny check in does not even open until one hour before. Many others eg TAP it is two hours, so how do they fit into the queue.?

[ICEHOUSES]

The rot started when all the low cost carriers started operations from MAN with many based aircraft, many of these passengers take trolly bags through security with liquids in to save checked in baggage cost, which holds all the security lines up resulting in all these delays to passengers. Years ago before the likes of Ryanair and easyJet moved in this never happened, but this is unfortunately the way aviation is nowadays I accept.

[brian_dromey]

Yes things have changed. But other airports seem to manage this much better. We’re not seeing social media posts with queues at the likes of Palma, Malaga or Barcelona, for example.

[Rutan16]

Yes things have changed. But other airports seem to manage this much better. We’re not seeing social media posts with queues at the likes of Palma, Malaga or Barcelona, for example.

Not like for like to be honest .All three are within Schengen so the Majority of traffic is passport/customs free and frictionless on arrival. Another Brexit benefit puts UK passport holders on a par with Russian , Serbian and African travelers 👍

And significantly reduces queues by a magnitude

[Navpi]

Must confess I'm mildly surprised there is still a high degree of civic pride which has come to the fore, yes its all a bit 1970s but laudable nonetheless.

I fully expected MAG to blindside the shareholders if they felt they were in a position to get away with it.

Lots of icing on top at Manchester but zero substance underneath.

Its pleasing they are kicking backsides.

[Mr Mac]

Navpi
I hope you do not think new T2 is the “iceing on top of the cake”. If so baker should be sacked.

Cheers
Mr Mac - looking to eat cake on Mon T1

[TheFiddler]

MAG are trumpeting just over £10 per hour for Security Officers - which includes the shift allowance for turning up at 2am, parking 2 miles away and getting bussed to work.

Meanwhile, Tesco...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61021465

Same pay, park outside, work normal hours and don't put up with the abuse from management and passengers. Pay rates and conditions are going to have to increase massively before MAG can properly staff itself. I agree with previous posters - for the last 13 years of my working life they are the worst airport on this planet I have to pass through. The original T2 Transformation Project plans were amazing, what we've actually got is, frankly, embarrassing.

[Dorking]

Not like for like to be honest .All three are within Schengen so the Majority of traffic is passport/customs free and frictionless on arrival. Another Brexit benefit puts UK passport holders on a par with Russian , Serbian and African travelers 👍

And significantly reduces queues by a magnitude

Hate to tell you but when we were in the EU we were never in Schengen...so not the same

[HOVIS]

Nail on head, Fiddler.

[lfc84]

Nail on head, Fiddler.
Indeed....my local McDonalds pays £10 ph and my local Starbuck pays £11 ph. As Fiddler says - pay needs to improve. Dramatically

[LFC22]

The rot started when all the low cost carriers started operations from MAN with many based aircraft, many of these passengers take trolly bags through security with liquids in to save checked in baggage cost, which holds all the security lines up resulting in all these delays to passengers. Years ago before the likes of Ryanair and easyJet moved in this never happened, but this is unfortunately the way aviation is nowadays I accept.
Feel like MAG have this thinking that they don't need to bother with upgrading the airport or any of it's facilities as most passengers are just there for a cheap flight. The airport needs to fall into capable hands because they've run it into the ground. A couple of years ago I flew from Singapore to Dubai, then into Manchester. What a massive culture shock it was to travel through two world class airports then arrive at a dump like MAN which still feels like it's stuck in the 90's with the low ceilings, outdated architecture and broken facilities.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Who is Head of Security?
How long have they been in the role?
Who do they report to?

Give us a name so we can linkedin...

[MAN2SIN2BKK2FRA]

Hate to tell you but when we were in the EU we were never in Schengen...so not the same
When we were in the EU we used the EU passport holders gates to enter the Schengen zone; now we have to use the all other passports gates; its a mess, well done!!!!!

[commit aviation]

Manchester Airport boss warns queues could continue for weeks - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61031379)

"But the compromise between having that situation or cancelling lots of flights for people - which other airports have done in recent weeks - we believe people would prefer to accept a queue and make sure they get away."

Since when did airports cancel flights? A little disingenuous I would suggest.

[lfc84]

Manchester Airport boss warns queues could continue for weeks - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61031379)

"But the compromise between having that situation or cancelling lots of flights for people - which other airports have done in recent weeks - we believe people would prefer to accept a queue and make sure they get away."

Since when did airports cancel flights? A little disingenuous I would suggest.
Quite right commit aviation
These clowns really are talking nonsense

[Navpi]

Credit : Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/06/outrage-over-huge-pay-rises-for-manchester-airports-group-bosses?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

This paragraph caught my eye.

"Meanwhile, the highest-paid director at MAG – understood to be its chief executive, Charlie Cornish – was awarded an extra £500,000, a rise of 25% taking his total remuneration to £2.5m".

What for ?

Given the airport was losing money that increase could only have come directly from the funds that were given to the airport from the shareholders in Gtr Manchester?

There has incidentally just been a phone in on 5live about transport chaos but unfortunately it might as well have been called the Man Airport debate".

Not sure who the travel correspondent was but she said that "Man Airport have this morning issued an apology but seemingly admitted they accepted slots from airlines in advance knowing full well they didn't have the operational structures in place to meet the throughput."

She went on to say
"that is an extraordinary admission of failiure ".
her words not mine !

[ATNotts]

Manchester Airport boss warns queues could continue for weeks - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61031379)

"But the compromise between having that situation or cancelling lots of flights for people - which other airports have done in recent weeks - we believe people would prefer to accept a queue and make sure they get away."

Since when did airports cancel flights? A little disingenuous I would suggest.

About the same time as aircraft parked on runways!! Journalists, even in the case of the BBC report you cite, "Transport Correspondents", are woefully ignorant but consistently get away with it. In a report a couple of days ago on the BBC News website the repeatedly referred to "Stanstead" airport. Give me strength!

[SWBKCB]

About the same time as aircraft parked on runways!! Journalists, even in the case of the BBC report you cite, "Transport Correspondents", are woefully ignorant but consistently get away with it. In a report a couple of days ago on the BBC News website the repeatedly referred to "Stanstead" airport. Give me strength!

Not just journo's - look at any airport social media and there will be comments like "Why don't you fly to Sydney?". Cos we are an airport...

[Rutan16]

Hate to tell you but when we were in the EU we were never in Schengen...so not the same
well aware and pointed stated reference to the advantages of Schengen even being outside however within the EU meant UK passport holders gong through the EU corridor with minimal fuss now the rest remains as stated
And the AENA airports having fewer problems

[Rutan16]

well aware and pointed stated reference to the advantages of Schengen even being outside however within the EU meant UK passport holders gong through the EU corridor with minimal fuss now the rest remains as stated
And the AENA airports having fewer problems

Additionally Schengen also includes three large and several minor None EU countries.
The point is EU or EEA citizens Freedom of movement allowed travel between member states without the need of a passport just a national ID is necessary; there are no passport controls to speak of
The UK retained passport control sure however to comply with the above accepted ID cards for entry
That has now disappeared and all EU Citizens need a passport to enter the UK as of January and that’s an added burden at the frontier is it not
Those Spanish airports don’t check EU/EEA travelers passports they don’t need too

[LTNman]

A detailed story of how one family turned up 4 hours early and still missed their flight
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/family-devastated-miss-ryanair-flight-23617932?gaa_at=la&gaa_n=AYc4ysvrciKm1XAI1Cq479PPpTdJyvZ4ugRWHE7CloOhGYvASr2dGK-2QasYVpN5TS0%3D&utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=discover&utm_campaign=nonpanel&gaa_ts=6250b0df&gaa_sig=WlwW8LDXdphM9syCwEJDjyFPhTQnt2wk0aekcbEVuAxBFCqiP-37h-6RSrdy5IfqfQmfUMOoNmFJrQvWtdl6xQ%3D%3D

[dave59]

"While Greater Manchester's councils are majority shareholders in Manchester Airports Group (MAG), the day-to-day operation is usually outside the remit of both the town halls and the Mayor's office"

So no direct "stakeholder" involvement - a nice cushy number where you set your own rules and PI's

Well then change it so that it DOES fall within your remit Mr. Mayor.

[WHBM]

MAG are trumpeting just over £10 per hour for Security Officers - which includes the shift allowance for turning up at 2am, parking 2 miles away and getting bussed to work.

Meanwhile, Tesco...

Same pay, park outside, work normal hours and don't put up with the abuse from management and passengers. Pay rates and conditions are going to have to increase massively before MAG can properly staff itself..
I read on the BBC that MAG say half those appointed as security officers quit before their DfT checks were completed - and then had the cheek to blame this on DfT. Manchester, it's YOUR issue. You don't pay them enough, and quite possibly don't put them on proper full pay while in training. Today you have to make the job sufficiently attractive and worthwhile to keep employees - otherwise all the costs of training etc get wasted. Your HR team can't do the arrogant "I'm better than you lot" strutting over applicants they likely previously did.

You can't pay people bottom wages, for someone who likely would not afford their own car, and come to work on the bus - and then have shift hours where getting to/from work is then a confounded nuisance compared to elsewhere.

[lfc84]

Joined fast track in terminal 1 at 0730 this morning. They're telling people the fast track queue is about 1 hour

It took 45 minutes.

Regular queue looked extremely slow

[WHBM]

Did we cover the dismissal three days ago of the airport Managing Director, Karen Smart, up above ? Though my hunch is the Australian investor owners, pursuing an approach of minimum costs regardless, are actually more responsible. Maybe Grant Schapps can have a word ...

I don't know the details of Manchester shift arrangements, but at another well-known major airport :) the issue was around 6 am. Staff were paid enhanced night rate for reporting between 10 pm and 6 am, so significant numbers were not on shift until 6 am. This might be fine for ramp staff etc, but for security the passengers encounter them an hour or more before they need a pushback tug operator. The modern trend for substantial first wave departures around 7 am, often the biggest wave of the day, and which sometimes seems to have completely passed security planners by, means that a peak occurs through security around 5 am to 6 am - just when only the overnight crew are on duty, and the finance department are not having any security staff starting early - and maybe they can't anyway because there are no buses at 5 am to get to work, and the airport has done nothing about making any provision.

Once you get a huge queue at 6 am it seems to take hours to recover, because again staff have been minimised to the averaghe flow per hour.

Incidentally, I have more than once noticed on the financial side that the security station hardware supplier salesmen seem more adept at scooping security budgets than the airport paying for the operating staff. There are six security stations in place but only three are manned. Big queues. The boardroom solution is to provide a further £1m ... to buy and install another three stations :( .

And further, how is the staffing for the retail concessions going ? One further thing that hacks me is wasting time in a long queue because security is short staffed, only to finally make it out into the terminal to find the perfumes and jewellery concessions have found it quite possible to be fully staffed up, all having had to be fully security cleared, of course, being airside, and doing blow all business.

[Rutan16]

Did we cover the dismissal three days ago of the airport Managing Director, Karen Smart, up above ? Though my hunch is the Australian investor owners, pursuing an approach of minimum costs regardless, are actually more responsible. Maybe Grant Schapps can have a word ...

I don't know the details of Manchester shift arrangements, but at another well-known major airport :) the issue was around 6 am. Staff were paid enhanced night rate for reporting between 10 pm and 6 am, so significant numbers were not on shift until 6 am. This might be fine for ramp staff etc, but for security the passengers encounter them an hour or more before they need a pushback tug operator. The modern trend for substantial first wave departures around 7 am, often the biggest wave of the day, and which sometimes seems to have completely passed security planners by, means that a peak occurs through security around 5 am to 6 am - just when only the overnight crew are on duty, and the finance department are not having any security staff starting early - and maybe they can't anyway because there are no buses at 5 am to get to work, and the airport has done nothing about making any provision.

Once you get a huge queue at 6 am it seems to take hours to recover, because again staff have been minimised to the averaghe flow per hour.

Incidentally, I have more than once noticed on the financial side that the security station hardware supplier salesmen seem more adept at scooping security budgets than the airport paying for the operating staff. There are six security stations in place but only three are manned. Big queues. The boardroom solution is to provide a further £1m ... to buy and install another three stations :( .

And further, how is the staffing for the retail concessions going ? One further thing that hacks me is wasting time in a long queue because security is short staffed, only to finally make it out into the terminal to find the perfumes and jewellery concessions have found it quite possible to be fully staffed up, all having had to be fully security cleared, of course, being airside, and doing blow all business.

Well put as said several times the FAULTS are squarely at the Head of securities feet.

As for IFM well only interested in dividends and right now MAG aren’t delivering those and neither are their Australian airports including Sydney and Brisbane where similar security issues have been sighted . Coincidence maybe 🤔

Even the current headlines for both airports are identical !

[Rutan16]

A new airline planning Manchester operations.

https://www.air101.co.uk/2022/04/airbus-a330-200-for-new-uk-sentra.html

Can move this into the Manchester Airport thread ?

Seems sort of legitimate are registered at Companies House through £600k reserves ain’t going to last are they ?

Quite like their initially registered name Magestic Mallard !

And as for Ghana as a starting point from Manchester with a single plane 🤔

[Mark J Bowcock]

Guys sorry yes wrong thread to ask
this on but I presume someone will know? Can I fly to Spain twice in one week? I’ve tried looking for info everywhere on the regulations! I fly back from Alicante next Monday after a weekend away then fly out to Malaga the following day for a holiday with friends! Do you think I will get stopped when I arrive into Malaga as I only left Spain the day before?

any info is appreciated - let’s see who wants their 5 mins of fame today over the internet/papers with how they missed their flights at Manchester due to the queues and how they lost out on £3000 etc etc!

[Mr Mac]

MJB
I cannot think of an issue with that, but why bother coming back to Manchester for such a short time and face the congestion issues twice within 24hrs, they have launderettes and dry cleaners in Spain so it can not be for clean clothing ?
Cheers
Mr Mac

[Mark J Bowcock]

MJB
I cannot think of an issue with that, but why bother coming back to Manchester for such a short time and face the congestion issues twice within 24hrs, they have launderettes and dry cleaners in Spain so it can not be for clean clothing ?
Cheers
Mr Mac

flights already booked plus it was over £150 to fly from Alicante to Malaga! Thanks for the advice tho. £9.99 from Manchester!

[LTNman]

I fly back from Alicante next Monday after a weekend away then fly out to Malaga the following day for a holiday with friends! Do you think I will get stopped when I arrive into Malaga as I only left Spain the day before?


I can’t think of any reason why you might be considered to be a money launderer mule or drug runner.

[WHBM]

Can I fly to Spain twice in one week? I’ve tried looking for info everywhere on the regulations! I fly back from Alicante next Monday after a weekend away then fly out to Malaga the following day for a holiday with friends! Do you think I will get stopped when I arrive into Malaga as I only left Spain the day before?
By no means unknown. People go on pre-booked holiday with family, then go back for one day, key board meeting, signing commercial documents, colleagues' funeral, etc. You even get some day returns if schedules allow. Obviously the revenue department at the airline are fine with it ! Over on FlyerTalk they are past masters at this, sometimes referred to there as a "Mileage Run".

[Mark J Bowcock]

By no means unknown. People go on pre-booked holiday with family, then go back for one day, key board meeting, signing commercial documents, colleagues' funeral, etc. You even get some day returns if schedules allow. Obviously the revenue department at the airline are fine with it ! Over on FlyerTalk they are past masters at this, sometimes referred to there as a "Mileage Run".

Thanks for the info. I didn’t know you could just go for the day as the Spanish PLF asks for accommodation details!

[lfc84]

Thanks for the info. I didn’t know you could just go for the day as the Spanish PLF asks for accommodation details!
if full vaccinated you don't need to do a PLF
Personally I'd go from Alicante to Malaga

[Mark J Bowcock]

if full vaccinated you don't need to do a PLF
Personally I'd go from Alicante to Malaga

you have to fill the Spanish PLF form in! It’s compulsory

[Navpi]

Well put as said several times the FAULTS are squarely at the Head of securities feet.

As for IFM well only interested in dividends and right now MAG aren’t delivering those and neither are their Australian airports including Sydney and Brisbane where similar security issues have been sighted . Coincidence maybe 🤔

Even the current headlines for both airports are identical !

Suspect sacking of KS was more to do with senior management saving their bacon.

I'm astounded that some are placing all the emphasis on security when that manager has a BOSS.

If the team keeps losing you don"t blame the trainer you blame the manager !

[Rutan16]

Suspect sacking of KS was more to do with senior management saving their bacon.

I'm astounded that some are placing all the emphasis on security when that manager has a BOSS.

If the team keeps losing you don"t blame the trainer you blame the manager !

An that boss perhaps has the wrong team 😉 Route and branch change necessary and the Head of Security still needs to consider his/her position Perhaps a personal improvement plan 😉if you know I I mean

[Rutan16]

Why didn’t you look at the train about €40 and a pleasant enough journey on RENFEs wide and spacious Spanish gauge trains .You could have sampled genuine Spain foods and culture of Albacete especially near Easter.
The route isn’t direct you do go along way in land to connect to the AVE lines still I’d do that any day .
Takes a nice half day travel time

[Navpi]

An that boss perhaps has the wrong team 😉 Route and branch change necessary and the Head of Security still needs to consider his/her position Perhaps a personal improvement plan 😉if you know I I mean

100% agree the manager brought in the backroom staff so yes some of those need go as well.

No one at the top seems to think the current crisis which is the tip of the iceberg in terms of a downward spiral in the overall operational capabilities of Manchester is their responsibility, blame seems to be tilted toward "events outside their control".

Well hang on, was it not MAG who were demanding the loosening of controls for months?

Surely anyone could have anticipated the step change in demand, and repositioned themselves accordingly if not why were they themselves demanding this ?

The current problems are symptomatic of neglect.

Its chaos in the terminal.
Its chaos in terms of infastructure or lack of it.
And its chaos in terms of cargo facilities /supply chain.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

You don't work in business do you navpi?
You don't spend more money than you think you can get away with. In reality any CEO has the board asking "Did you really need to spend THAT much?" The whole rationale is to maximise shareholder value NOT operational efficiency. MAG have a captive audience.

[Navpi]

You don't work in business do you navpi?
You don't spend more money than you think you can get away with. In reality any CEO has the board asking "Did you really need to spend THAT much?" The whole rationale is to maximise shareholder value NOT operational efficiency. MAG have a captive audience.

You do work in consultancy don't you skip.
Lots of the usual "consultancy hot air" evidenced here.

i presume one therefore has sympathies with a rise in senior management salaries whilst the airports terminals were effectively shut ?

Maybe the shareholders SHOULD be asking

"Did you really need to spend that".

Ps Shareholder value is driven by operational efficiency.
Ladybird book 1 Business.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I no longer work in consultancy. I merely observe that your complaints while valid are missing the point. Rage as you will, nothing is going to change until a strategic direction moves from the top, and I see no evidence of that being likely. The CFO will continue to point out to anyone tempted to invest their way out of this mess that that the balance sheet is in a mess and so the answer should be no. CEOs are often constrained, even if they wanted to do something, colleagues will often conspire to stop them.

It's naive to say "shareholder value is driven by operational efficiency". Long term can be, short term is not. And frankly remuneration of the decision makers is driven by short to medium term value add. Today's CEO will be long gone before the value is banked and by then he won't get the credit. And no, am not defending this, I just work among them..... So cut the "oh Skipness must love the boss class as the poor suffer". Geez!

[lfc84]

you have to fill the Spanish PLF form in! It’s compulsory
If fully vaccinated you do not need to fill in the Spanish PLF.

You simply show the NHS app.

I know, because I travelled to Spain yesterday and I can also read the updates

[Mark J Bowcock]

If fully vaccinated you do not need to fill in the Spanish PLF.

You simply show the NHS app.

I know, because I travelled to Spain yesterday and I can also read the updates

sorry no need to be ratty! I’m just reading from 6th April it got scrapped but not much info on it! I know masks get scrapped from 19th/20th April?

[Navpi]

I no longer work in consultancy. I merely observe that your complaints while valid are missing the point. Rage as you will, nothing is going to change until a strategic direction moves from the top, and I see no evidence of that being likely. The CFO will continue to point out to anyone tempted to invest their way out of this mess that that the balance sheet is in a mess and so the answer should be no. CEOs are often constrained, even if they wanted to do something, colleagues will often conspire to stop them.

It's naive to say "shareholder value is driven by operational efficiency". Long term can be, short term is not. And frankly remuneration of the decision makers is driven by short to medium term value add. Today's CEO will be long gone before the value is banked and by then he won't get the credit. And no, am not defending this, I just work among them..... So cut the "oh Skipness must love the boss class as the poor suffer". Geez!


Oh do grow up skip and save me the wounded party narrative.

You respond with some decent comments but as usual seem unable to resist the tiresome sniping.... it seems to be an elixir on which you dine

"You don't work in business" or "rage as you will".

(Well by way of balance, i do have my own business and I'm certainly not raging , yet again those are your words not mine) so why make this stuff up ?

You then have the temerity to feel hurt when someone sits you down.

I do actually enjoy the factual observations but let's leave the fictional stuff out.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Apologies basgo, I'll try harder 😉

[HOVIS]

I'll say this again because the message is not getting through. It is not just security. All departments, operators, handling agents etc are understaffed at the moment.
Even if you could fill all the vacant security posts (you won't because the t&cs are cr@p) there would still be huge delays.

[SCFC1EP]

Traveled through Manchester last week arrive at security queue at 0445hrs for a 0620 departure took 45 minutes to get just through security joined queue just inside boarding card area, noticed a guy a few places in front of me in the fast track queue and just out of curiosity wondered who would be first through security answer the normal non paying queue, fast track was actually slower and if I had paid for this service I would have been very unhappy, problem is that fast track goes through just one security and as a result is a lot slower, did witness staff going along the line calling out for passengers on the first flights by the boarding time
Returned home on 6/4 Ryanair ex Palma , flight was delayed into Palma by over 3 hrs, upon departure the captain apologised for the delay and then gave the reasons the original aircraft had a fault with the refueling valve so a replacement aircraft was needed no spare Ryanair UK aircraft at Manchester so one was positioned up from Stansted the flight was due to dep Man at 1035hrs however replacement aircraft didn't arrive until 1224hrs, this flight was empty and should have had a quick load time to depart but didn't until 1418hrs almost 2 hours later reason you could not have made it up, Swissport had loaded 180 bags onto the flight but none of these bags were going to Palma so all bags had to be off loaded and correct luggage loaded onto flight.
Upon arrival at Manchester landed at 1937hrs some 3hrs 15 minutes late, we was held on the tarmac as there was no one to bring us onto stand, even though pilot had requested and been told we was priority, 10 minutes later we went onto stand, then we was not allowed to deplane as there was no dispatcher again from swissport to open the doors so we could get into airport, after around 20 minutes and repeated apology from Ryanair blaming swissport and saying Manchester airport is embarrassing a member of cabin crew did the dispatchers job and opened the doors so we could get off and enter the airport,
As we were T3 and nothing else had arrived in ;last 30 minutes we were straight through passport control, we had hand luggage only so was straight out would not guess how long wait would have been for hold luggage

[Navpi]

Apologies basgo, I'll try harder 😉

Likewise Skipness 1E 😉

[LBAflyer22]

I wonder how long it will be before Swissport (or Pissport as they are known in the industry) survive for?

I get what has happened in the industry over the last 2 years and do not blame them for the staff shortages (that lands firmly at the governments door) however there knee jerk reaction to what has happened clearly is not doing them any favours (redundancies etc) when they had furlough to take full advantage of (only thing I'll congratulate the government on). This has left them severely exposed for the recovery which has clearly slapped not only Pissport/Manchester around the face but also the whole industry. Unlike Jet2 which fully self handle at most bases in the UK and took full advantage of furlough but also ensures there was no knee jerk reactions initially. How are easyJet fairing if you remove the security issues with DHL? DNATA etc.

That sort of service cannot continue and I fully expect that there will be money back/no payment for piss poor service with the likes of Ryanair/TUI etc. Eventually they will not be profitable and bleeding money. Only so long that can last.

Personally I'm surprised TUI have allowed the relationship which clearly is now tarnishing their reputation with customers to continue. Why they are not looking at following Jet2 footsteps and self handle at their big bases. This is not a dig at Swissport, in fact I have up most respect for the shop floor staff as it's their management who have shafted the company in the UK. Swissport in smaller bases seems to be fairing off better then in the bigger I've also noted. But to be expected.

[The96er]

Swissport at not the only one struggling. Menzies are now (temporarily) offering double pay overtime. Swissport have been offering triple pay overtime for some time now and added to the enivitable penalty clauses, it makes you wonder what their cash flow situation is like. Not too healthy I'm guessing.

Airlines with big operations like RYR and TUI really have no other options in the short term at least. There was talk of RYR going quasi-self handling similar to DHL with EZY pre covid but has all gone quiet since.

[LBAflyer22]

Swissport at not the only one struggling. Menzies are now (temporarily) offering double pay overtime. Swissport have been offering triple pay overtime for some time now and added to the enivitable penalty clauses, it makes you wonder what their cash flow situation is like. Not too healthy I'm guessing.

Airlines with big operations like RYR and TUI really have no other options in the short term at least. There was talk of RYR going quasi-self handling similar to DHL with EZY pre covid but has all gone quiet since.

I would like to think that RYR/TUI are seriously now looking at this.

That's even worse then what I was portraying - triple time. Only so much cash in the bank before it goes belly up. Oh dear oh dear.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Didn't Swissport at Heathrow actually close one day without notice? I seem to remember utter carnage being unleashed with long haul arrivals landing with no one to turn them? About 2004-ish?


To me it's like parking an aircraft at Victorville for 2 years, it might return to service but it'll be forever a Hangar Queen as they're never quite the same again after extended idleness. The whole industry is like that now, it will take a long time to stagger back onto it's feet IMHO and hopefully the days of treating handlers and security staff like disposable baristas so we can all save a fiver on that holiday are forever gone.

[The96er]

To me it's like parking an aircraft at Victorville for 2 years, it might return to service but it'll be forever a Hangar Queen as they're never quite the same again after extended idleness. The whole industry is like that now, it will take a long time to stagger back onto it's feet IMHO and hopefully the days of treating handlers and security staff like disposable baristas so we can all save a fiver on that holiday are forever gone.

The covid shut down may have exasperated things more, but some of the deep rooted issues have been there for many years. I've quoted on another thread that recruitment for the summer schedule needs to start no later than Christmas time to allow for Pass approval and sufficiant training to take place during the relativly quieter winter period. Ground handling companies will not do this due to the unwillingness to carry the staff on their books. Most recruitment begins in March which is way too late and is how we now find ourselves in the situation we have now. This is repeated year after year even pre-Covid.
When you let it spiral down to a certain level, it's incredibly difficult to recover from and results in further reductions in alreadly low staff moral and I would garner a guess that the cost is greater in the long run. I'm sure the accountents would disagree though.

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

Upon arrival at Manchester landed at 1937hrs some 3hrs 15 minutes

Thats your next flights paid for with the EU261 compensation

[LBAflyer22]

The covid shut down may have exasperated things more, but some of the deep rooted issues have been there for many years. I've quoted on another thread that recruitment for the summer schedule needs to start no later than Christmas time to allow for Pass approval and sufficiant training to take place during the relativly quieter winter period. Ground handling companies will not do this due to the unwillingness to carry the staff on their books. Most recruitment begins in March which is way too late and is how we now find ourselves in the situation we have now. This is repeated year after year even pre-Covid.
When you let it spiral down to a certain level, it's incredibly difficult to recover from and results in further reductions in alreadly low staff moral and I would garner a guess that the cost is greater in the long run. I'm sure the accountents would disagree though.

This isn't entirely accurate. Summer recruitment does begin within the Christmas period/with big recruitment days in January. However as you've alluded to the start dates/training dates don't begin until March/April. IN the time of someone been offered a job, they may of found a better job that's better paid and therefore give backward on the job they've been offered. Sometimes they treacle the new starters into the system to have a number for April/easter then have a different number for May onwards. Think what we all have to remember is Manchester has probably lost a number of staff in security and the same for Swissport due to the previous 2 years.

[DP.]

I'll say this again because the message is not getting through. It is not just security. All departments, operators, handling agents etc are understaffed at the moment.
Even if you could fill all the vacant security posts (you won't because the t&cs are cr@p) there would still be huge delays.

Having been through MAN on a T3 first wave departure last week, this is certainly the reality. I actually cleared security in around 30-35 minutes. Once in the terminal there were lengthy queues at the F&B places that were actually open, in large part because a number weren't open at all. Boarding took an age as there was a single handling agent dealing with a completely full flight.

This doesn't excuse the MAG-specific problems, but it does demonstrate that there is a much wider issue at play here.

[Mr Mac]

I went through this morning for 6.55 LH to Munich with no issues,though I hate having to get up halfway through the night to catch this flight as I feel half asleep by mid afternoon here - must be an age thing. Back to UK Thursday which may potentially be fun.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[WHBM]

One wonders how the holiday flight operators are handling this, the TUI/Jet2 etc people. Clients stuck in the security queue - do you go and leave them behind, where you maybe only serve the destination once a week ?

And for the Ryanair/Easyjet/mainstream scheduled people, where does responsibility start. If you have presented at the check-in when still open for your flight, put your bags in, but then are hours in the security queue, can the carrier just go, as you have been accepted ? You have paid all your money to the airline, it is their responsibility to manage their elements; their fuel supplier, their staff, and their airport provider.

[P330]

^^^^ I am really interested in this too; how are the airlines handling this with their passengers - good question. ^^^^

[SWBKCB]

I thought if the bag was on the A/C, it either had to be offloaded or you waited. Has that changed?

[brian_dromey]

I thought if the bag was on the A/C, it either had to be offloaded or you waited. Has that changed?
I don’t think so. But with hand luggage only it would be difficult to prove you arrived with good time to spare. I guess you could do a GDPR for the time you scanned through security?

If you can prove you presented yourself to check-in with good time it becomes IDB, obviously accepting checked bags implies the passenger arrived with time to spare. I don’t believe the current scenario of excessive security queues (the scenario where security queue are longer than minimum check-in) has been tested under EU/UK261 - happy to be corrected though. I’m sure it will be, at some point.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Well I know that google is usually my friend, but we're just acquaintances today. For GDPR I got General Data Protection Regulation. IDB is proving more elusive. Islamic Development Bank? Internal Drainage Boards?

Nope. Brian's advanced Jargonese has got the better of me this time!

[AndrewH52]

Intentionally Denied Boarding?

[brian_dromey]

Intentionally Denied Boarding?
Close - its Involuntary Denied Boarding. i.e. the airline prevented the customer from boarding despite the passenger holding a confirmed reservation and presenting themselves in good time. As opposed to a 'no-show' where the passenger didn't show up, or Voluntary Denied Boarding (VDB) where the airline and customer came to a voluntary agreement in regards to denied boarding. For the purpose of EU/UK 261 this is slightly different to cancellation, but I think the recourse available and obligations on the airline are largely the same.

My point was that the onus is on passengers to prove we have presented ourselves in good time to board the aircraft either at the check-in desk or at the gate. I wonder how it would be possible for someone travelling without checked-in baggage to prove they arrived in good time. How do you prove it was security queues that prevented you from getting to the gate on-time as opposed to spending too long in duty-free or falling asleep somewhere?

This will be interesting to watch - I think MAN and DUB look like the most likely candidates to be involved. Any rulings from EU261 will not apply automatically under UK261, so it will be interesting to see what happens if a judgement is sought by someone who misses their flight due to length security queues. Are airlines/agents at MAN rebooking people in these scenarios?

[OzzyOzBorn]

Thanks for the decode!

[Dannyboy39]

Swissport at not the only one struggling. Menzies are now (temporarily) offering double pay overtime. Swissport have been offering triple pay overtime for some time now and added to the enivitable penalty clauses, it makes you wonder what their cash flow situation is like. Not too healthy I'm guessing.

Airlines with big operations like RYR and TUI really have no other options in the short term at least. There was talk of RYR going quasi-self handling similar to DHL with EZY pre covid but has all gone quiet since.
Well “Blue Handling” already exists at STN doesn’t it? I wouldn’t be surprised if RYR took it back in house, especially at their larger bases. Although the DHL tie up hasn’t been completely successful has it?

[Dct_Mopas]

Well “Blue Handling” already exists at STN doesn’t it? I wouldn’t be surprised if RYR took it back in house, especially at their larger bases. Although the DHL tie up hasn’t been completely successful has it?

DHL has been good for ezy. They’re well organised and do a great job, definitely short of staff as well but the only big issues occur when passenger security delays in terminal delay flights. Without any spare staff then this causes knock on delays as staff are held up on earlier departures.

However, it’s rare to be let down by DHL and they’re well appreciated/ a great bunch of people. It’s the airport ambulift service or security that cause the biggest ezy delays.

[zfw]

This isn't entirely accurate. Summer recruitment does begin within the Christmas period/with big recruitment days in January. However as you've alluded to the start dates/training dates don't begin until March/April. IN the time of someone been offered a job, they may of found a better job that's better paid and therefore give backward on the job they've been offered. Sometimes they treacle the new starters into the system to have a number for April/easter then have a different number for May onwards. Think what we all have to remember is Manchester has probably lost a number of staff in security and the same for Swissport due to the previous 2 years.
MAG has known since last Sept what the expected figures were going to be, they quoted about 24 million pax for this year. It turns out there are about 22 million seats available after the slots were handed back. As usual they were so cocky that there would be a flood of applicants for the prestigious positions that involve getting up at midnight to be in work for 2 in the morning all on minimum wage.
Attracting staff on these terms is proving difficult indeed there are no advantages or perks forthcoming from MAG to make working life attractive, parking is either one side or the other of the airport, requiring a bus journey into the airport adding an extra 20 minutes at the beginning or end of a shift, whereas they have ample parking in the mid stay car park at Terminal 3 for staff but choose to let passengers park here even though there are a multitude of new car parks with thousands of spaces.for them.And forget a subsidized staff canteen for the thousands that work here every day. Its Greggs or Boots.
Under the current tenure of Charlie Cornish MAG has turned into a once profitable forward thinking airport with no debts into one that owes about 3 billion pounds https://www.magairports.com/investor-relations/annual-and-interim-reports/?fbclid=IwAR3mothHi1j7Ji_W0KZLBN706__sY9RscrGmGLRjg8NqZOkM5r vGttkMqjI .
And the current pay offer for MAG Employees on the table is a 6.5 percent payrise after 3 years of no rise and a 10 per cent cut over the last 2 years, and a one off offer to buy MAG staff out of their yearly bonus which is usually about £700, the offer to buy you out £700.
The only way out of this is for the Airlines to start coughing up a decent amount for Handling Agents and Services, it is invariably going to mean higher costs for the travelling public but without it they will not get any staff.

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

It's a shame that Pprune doesn't have a "like" button. There have been a number of excellent posts recently but I don't want to clutter the thread with too many posts such as I'm just writing.
Anyway a big thanks to all who have added constructive comment. And to those whom I don't agree with, thank you for your viewpoint, there are always two sides to a discussion.

[DomyDom]

EZY starting Manchester - Inverness route × 2/week from July. On sale now 🙂.

[planedrive]

EZY starting Manchester - Inverness route × 2/week from July. On sale now 🙂.

2pw from the end of June and also increasing to 4pw from the end of July :ok: and also adding Chania (Crete) 2pw from the end of June.

Correspondence from Aurigny also states that they will be purely operating out of T3 from the 22nd of April, including check in and security so presumably that's when T3 will finally fully reopen!

[DomyDom]

2pw from the end of June and also increasing to 4pw from the end of July :ok: and also adding Chania (Crete) 2pw from the end of June.

Correspondence from Aurigny also states that they will be purely operating out of T3 from the 22nd of April, including check in and security so presumably that's when T3 will finally fully reopen!
Thanks for the update planedrive 👍

[SealinkBF]

And it continues...

Manchester: More Easter airport misery as queues reach the car park | Metro News (https://metro.co.uk/2022/04/16/manchester-more-easter-airport-misery-as-queues-reach-the-car-park-16478744/)

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/934x483/manchester_90471299b8c19807e654d7124da46ab2d8f96f8b.jpg

[AircraftOperations]

Confused as to where the news is here??? The airport have said that long queues 60-90 minutes will continue for a while longer yet, haven't they?
just because a queue is back to an external door, car park etc, doesn't necessarily mean that it is exceeding what has been flagged.

[MANFOD]

The article does include this paragraph:
"Today’s queues are understood to have largely subsided by 7am with passengers reporting no issues getting through airport security by around 9am."

The headline also contrasts with yesterday's article:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/smooth-morning-passengers-manchester-airport-23699508
But why post a more positive piece if there's a negative agenda to pursue?

With so many flights departing between 06.00 and 07.30, and thousands of passengers arriving early as instructed from 03.00 to 04.30, it's hardly surprising there will be long queues. The important factors are how many security channels are open to process passengers and how quickly the queues subside.

edit: Although the focus has been on security, there is of course the added complication of check-in delays. I'm assuming this morning's problems were primarily security.

[SCFC1EP]

Looking at the pictures i would say that's check in problem, if people are to try to get through security with that much luggage we have even more serious problems
not saying theres no problems at security as we all know including myself be stuck there

[MANFOD]

Looking at the pictures i would say that's check in problem, if people are to try to get through security with that much luggage we have even more serious problems
not saying theres no problems at security as we all know including myself be stuck there
Fair point. I hadn't looked at the pictures closely enough. The situation at security does seem very variable depending on the time of day, staff available etc. Some passengers have reported only a relatively short time to get through in contrast to long delays last week and earlier.

[WHBM]

Looking at the pictures I would say that's check in problem, if people are to try to get through security with that much luggage we have even more serious problems

Surely exacerbated by parallel reports of gross baggage handling shortages leading to bags not being unloaded for hours, or not loaded at all, lackadaisical treatment of missing bag reports, and the bags only turning up the day you are returning.

When baggage handling starts to get treated as something that will be done "if we can", no wonder people want to have their bags with them as much as possible.

[Asturias56]

"With so many flights departing between 06.00 and 07.30, and thousands of passengers arriving early as instructed from 03.00 to 04.30, it's hardly surprising there will be long queues. "

Surely if it's"hardly surprising" someone could actually staff up in anticipation? Why has it always got to be reactive action only?

[42psi]

"With so many flights departing between 06.00 and 07.30, and thousands of passengers arriving early as instructed from 03.00 to 04.30, it's hardly surprising there will be long queues. "

Surely if it's"hardly surprising" someone could actually staff up in anticipation? Why has it always got to be reactive action only?
​​​​​​

Perhaps because a shortage of staff is why those people are being asked to turn up early.
If there were enough staff then they could turn up at the normal time and be processed normally.

Passengers are being asked to turn up early so that even with the queuing they'll still be able to depart at the scheduled time.

If you don't have enough staff in total you can't move the non existant staff to a different time frame.
​​​

[SWBKCB]

Manchester Airport's Terminal Three will fully reopen this week to meet demand which has led to huge queues, delays and misery for passengers over recent months. Terminal Three, which was closed during the pandemic, has been partially reopen since March 27 for some arriving passengers, but will reopen fully on Friday (April 22).

All passengers flying out with Aurigny, British Airways, Eastern Airways, Iberia Express, Loganair, Ryanair and Vueling will check in at the Terminal Three entrance. All arrivals into the airport with those airlines will also go through the Terminal Three building.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-terminal-three-open-23722170

[DomyDom]

Air Canada 5 x weekly Manchester to Toronto from June. Business, Premium Economy and Economy seats on sale. First return by them to MAN since the start of the pandemic I understand. Excellent news! 😀👍
https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2022/04/21/air-canada-to-resume-manchester-toronto-route/

[lfc84]

Easyjet Manchester to Prague cancelled tonight

Tracker states:

"We’re sorry that your flight has been cancelled.
This is due to a foreign object on the runway causing your flight to have a technical issue."

[seahawks]

Engine ingested a stone on taxiway L during start up.

[HOVIS]

STS have announced they will be taking over the old Thomas Cook hangar. Jobs for the boys!

[gazza007]

https://www.stsaviationgroup.com/sts-aviation-services-to-open-aircraft-base-maintenance-facility-in-manchester/

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

Great news and hopefully the returned of skilled engineers to the airport - I'm not knocking the current engineers, just so glad that ex-Thomas Cook employees may be able to return to Manchester.

[Buster the Bear]

Kuwait Airways A320s

https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/manchester-airport-gains-new-middle-east-route-33972?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Evening%20Bulletin

[DomyDom]

Travelled through MAN over the Bank Holiday to LIS. Out Friday morning and returned Monday night. Everything went really smoothly with no excessive queing at security (about 10 mins max). Straight through border controls as well upon return. Well done to everyone involved at MAN 🙂

[VickersVicount]

perhaps shows what lots of poor publicity and socials can do… Don’t think its the last we’ve heard of this though. Abroad is often no better, PMI was described as a ‘zoo’ at the weekend… and its only May.

[HKGBOY]

It's pretty hit & miss depending when you go through. There certainly have been extensive queues in T2 security over the last week or so-including fast track.TUI check in appears to be hot spot as well at the moment. The splitting of Jet2 between T1 & T2 is pretty retrograde and shows a lack of planning.
I've been through T1 & T2 several times since Christmas, security time has varied from 10-60 minutes. However, it's not just that, its the crappy infrastructure in T1 - the lack of seating, the lack of food outlets, the lack of cleaning, the lack of things actually working that makes MAN a grim experience. I'm back to Asia next week & have changed my ticket to originate from LHR (because I can).

[Manchester South]

The situation seems to be patchy . The MEN again reported heavy queues on Bank Holiday Monday morning. I dropped off a friend for a flight on Tuesday 4 am : long line outside T1 already for the Easyjet bag drop - more or less the full length of the drop-off area. Having been there - done that a couple of weeks ago, would reckon at least 90 minutes to bag drop & then on to Security. My friend was with cabin bag only - some delay at security because only two x-ray lines operating, but more lines were started up as he was waiting and only about 30 minutes to go through security.

[SWBKCB]

Manchester Airport has suspended bookings for its express lanes through security in all three terminals. Passengers looking to book the 'FastTrack' service which helps bypass the queues which have plagued travellers over recent weeks, have been disappointed to find the option is no longer available. Initially, Manchester Airport said passengers could still book a FastTrack pass outside peak hours. However, the Manchester Evening News queried this when they were unable to do so through the website. It's now been confirmed that outbound passengers cannot get a pass for security in any of the three terminals, online or offline. However, bookings made historically will be honoured, while travellers can still pay to use an express lane through Passport Control, although only in Terminal One.

MEN - No more fast track: Why has Manchester Airport shut down bookings for express lanes through security? (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-closes-fast-track-23861066)

[Aksai Oiler]

MEN - No more fast track: Why has Manchester Airport shut down bookings for express lanes through security? (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-closes-fast-track-23861066)

I passed through MAN early April, with my 84 year old Mother who is in a wheelchair. It took us nearly 2 hours to get through security in the assisted lane. The assistance air side was diabolical, my Mother cannot walk unaided and the guys with the Scissor Lift could not wait to dump my Mother on the wet metal ramp to the door

[Rutan16]

MEN - No more fast track: Why has Manchester Airport shut down bookings for express lanes through security? (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-airport-closes-fast-track-23861066)
Just perhaps they can use the limited staff across ALL lanes to move MORE Bodies per hour .

[MANFAN]

I passed through MAN early April, with my 84 year old Mother who is in a wheelchair. It took us nearly 2 hours to get through security in the assisted lane. The assistance air side was diabolical, my Mother cannot walk unaided and the guys with the Scissor Lift could not wait to dump my Mother on the wet metal ramp to the door

Wow...sorry to hear this! Did you provide feedback to ABM (I think that's the company responsible for special assistance).
Which terminal were you in?

[lfc84]

Just perhaps they can use the limited staff across ALL lanes to move MORE Bodies per hour .
If they closed fast track entirely the perhaps you'd have a point

However, they're letting those who have already purchased fast track keep their access. So it still has to be managed and monitored. I've witnessed people trying to jump from the slow queue into the fast track queue.

[A350Saltire]

Spent last week in Majorca and flew from MAN with LS and back with FR. Check-in in T2 was fine, security was busy but took about 30 mins to get through. The only issue I had was the queues in T2 for all of the bars and restaurants. There doesn’t seem to be enough space for F&B.

Coming back we flew into T3 and were through the border check, collected luggage and out the door in 15 mins.

PMI by the way was also a breeze. Despite being warned by FR to arrive 3 hours before our flight (which was delayed anyway), we were through security in about 5 mins. Very impressive.

[Matt5]

Any advice on what the queues are like at Security towards late morning / mid day?

Three of us are travelling premium club to Orlando with TUI on Saturday, our flight departure time is 13:30.

We are staying at the Radisson the night before so don’t have to concern ourselves with traffic getting to the airport.

I note that TUI are opening check in 4hrs before departure, in the ideal world we would like to check in around 10:30. If we were to check in at 09:30 and by luck breeze through check in and security, I’d rather not have a 4hr wait around inside the airport, even with access to the new lounges, but not sure what to expect at that (quieter?!) time of day.

We should have fast lane access through our booking, but not sure if this will still be the case after the latest news regarding it.

I’m just after opinions really, obviously if we really should be using all of the 4hrs, we absolutely will do, but I guess I’m asking if it’s really necessary at that time of the day?

[scrapy]

Any advice on what the queues are like at Security towards late morning / mid day?

Three of us are travelling premium club to Orlando with TUI on Saturday, our flight departure time is 13:30.

We are staying at the Radisson the night before so don’t have to concern ourselves with traffic getting to the airport.

I note that TUI are opening check in 4hrs before departure, in the ideal world we would like to check in around 10:30. If we were to check in at 09:30 and by luck breeze through check in and security, I’d rather not have a 4hr wait around inside the airport, even with access to the new lounges, but not sure what to expect at that (quieter?!) time of day.

We should have fast lane access through our booking, but not sure if this will still be the case after the latest news regarding it.

I’m just after opinions really, obviously if we really should be using all of the 4hrs, we absolutely will do, but I guess I’m asking if it’s really necessary at that time of the day?
if you check in at 09.30 you could always go back to your hotel room. (Raddison is 5 mins walk from T2 checkin). You can check security wait times on the home page of the airports website, they generally are longer early morning and go down later in the day although not guaranteed. Ive got a lunchtime flight on a Saturday in a few weeks so have been checking list few weeks and not been above 30 minutes wait mid morning. Existing fast track bookings will still be honoured so will be less than the normal queue.

[spannersatcx]

Went out of T2 Wednesday, fast track, took probably 30 minutes or more as wife's carry on got rejected, no liquid no electrical items, suspicious looking jewellery, can't make it up! Would of been 10 minutes otherwise, problem is if your bag gets picked on, you join a queue for rejected bags, cans of pop left in bags by numpties, and people packing their liquids at the trays! The issue is passengers not complying and rejected bags for suspicious looking jewellery 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Matt5]

Thankyou.

I hadn’t realised that Manchester Airport had live advisory times for time through security, so that actually helps us make a more informed decision on the day.

[DomyDom]

perhaps shows what lots of poor publicity and socials can do… Don’t think its the last we’ve heard of this though. Abroad is often no better, PMI was described as a ‘zoo’ at the weekend… and its only May.
Not sure what the issue at PMI was but what we did experience on Friday at LIS was a 2 hour 20 minute wait while passengers from EU countries sailed through passport control, with only one Egate open and two booths open for non-EU passengers. After the EU passengers were through LIS border personnel were redeployed onto the non-EU gates and we were through in about 10 minutes. It could have been something similar at PMI but hopefully things run smoother for UK passengers as the summer season progresses.

[VickersVicount]

hopefully things run smoother for UK passengers as the summer season progresses.
Not sure why it would?
When does the Portuguese initiative to allow UK through EU channels start? That will be the only thing that would make a difference if Spain follows suit. AGP trending on twitter with huge non EU queues and EU lane empty! You couldn’t make it up.

[brian_dromey]

Not sure why it would?
When does the Portuguese initiative to allow UK through EU channels start? That will be the only thing that would make a difference if Spain follows suit. AGP trending on twitter with huge non EU queues and EU lane empty! You couldn’t make it up.

In fairness the UK is not part of the EU - the UK is a third country in exactly the same way the USA, UAE, Mongolia or Argentina would be. The UK chose this path, to blame the Spanish for long queues which are a direct consequence of a decision made by the UK is probably a bit unfair?

[pwalhx]

Another reminder not just Manchester has issues with queues
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/leeds-bradford-airport-carnage-security-23881329?fbclid=IwAR3hszYuZhvw7LUWI_Abn1gyU6i9qvpcFsFX_uzx7Y dnPvdXL1Ui8ZXAIv8

[ATNotts]

In fairness the UK is not part of the EU - the UK is a third country in exactly the same way the USA, UAE, Mongolia or Argentina would be. The UK chose this path, to blame the Spanish for long queues which are a direct consequence of a decision made by the UK is probably a bit unfair?

Exactly, and since every UK passport now has to be checked and stamped delays at Spanish airports with large numbers of UK arrivals were always going to be a Brexit consequence and not a Spanish issue.

[SWBKCB]

Exactly, and since every UK passport now has to be checked and stamped delays at Spanish airports with large numbers of UK arrivals were always going to be a Brexit consequence and not a Spanish issue.

In the same way that queues at Manchester airport are a consequence of passenger decisions and not a management issue.

Or maybe businesses should adapt as things change?

[brian_dromey]

In the same way that queues at Manchester airport are a consequence of passenger decisions and not a management issue.

Or maybe businesses should adapt as things change?
They could adapt. But what’s in it for them? Sure the U.K. foreign office can send a telex or whatever to the Spanish government objecting. But the U.K. has no levers to pull here. Spanish and EU citizens are being prioritised, seems fair enough as they can be processed more quickly.
The U.K. chooses to let EU passport holders use self-service machines. That’s their call.

Mind you - when the travelling party has split UK/EU passports the EU citizens get the booby prize of collecting the bags and dealing with children. Sunlit uplands indeed!

[SealinkBF]

And the "publicity" keeps going :-(

Passengers complain of ‘chaos' at Manchester and Birmingham airports today - 'Nightmare!' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/passengers-complain-of-chaos-at-manchester-and-birmingham-airports-today-nightmare/ar-AAX405o?ocid=entnewsntp&cvid=496d90d7dfcb4667b0a4c92838f0bf65)

[WHBM]

Not sure why it would?
When does the Portuguese initiative to allow UK through EU channels start? That will be the only thing that would make a difference if Spain follows suit. AGP trending on twitter with huge non EU queues and EU lane empty! You couldn’t make it up.
It used to be the other way round, on landing at Faro huge planeload queue at EU counter, one officer, just us going to the non-EU counter, one officer. Envious eyes. But everyone still through before baggage presented..

Of course, if people want to make a "Brexit thing" about every little aspect, that's up to them ...

[Dorking]

Anyone able to shed light on how early morning easyJet check ins are going of late please, at Manchester T1?
going to Gibraltar at the end of the month and not looking forward to it...thanks

[LFC22]

Anyone able to shed light on how early morning easyJet check ins are going of late please, at Manchester T1?
going to Gibraltar at the end of the month and not looking forward to it...thanks
Completely hit and miss at the moment. You might breeze through in 25 mins or miss your flight like many people have done. End of May will be busy as well as there's bank holidays coming up, I also have a flight then and I'm dreading it. Advice would be to show up atleast 4 hours prior.

[Rutan16]

Completely hit and miss at the moment. You might breeze through in 25 mins or miss your flight like many people have done. End of May will be busy as well as there's bank holidays coming up, I also have a flight then and I'm dreading it. Advice would be to show up atleast 4 hours prior.
Just a quick heads up NO Late May spring bank holiday this year- moved to 2nd June with the extra jubilee day on the 3rd

[HKGBOY]

It is so hit & miss, 15 mins to 3 hours for security. Day/time doesn't seem to matter- totally random. My visits through T1 & T2 over the last 4 months have been grim, particularly T1. Not just the security queues but the whole experience is depressing. I'm due to fly on a rare Cathay direct to HKG on 20th May, but now decided to swing by colleagues down south & exit the UK via LHR, I'm lucky my ticket allows that. Definitely won't be using MAN for the foreseeable. Maybe they need to employ Jeremy Spake to come & sort out their mess?

[davidjohnson6]

Just a quick heads up NO Late May spring bank holiday this year- moved to 2nd June with the extra jubilee day on the 3rd
There is no bank holiday in late May. BUT, fares from the UK to leisure destinations are particularly high on the weekend of 28/29 May, with two bank holidays a few days later. Half term begins on Friday 27 May. I would expect 27, 28 and 29 May for outbound flights from the UK to be particularly busy

[Dorking]

Thanks to you all for the information...I was expecting carnage..They really are hopeless there ..I've bitten the expensive bullet and switched the outbound to Liverpool and travelling to Malaga instead of Gibraltar and crossing into Spain will be a lot easier there as well...
Liverpool security is apparently normal and they are even offering Fast track, which at £4 a head seems wise, at times like these..
Might even have time for brekkie at Frankie and Benny's..
Either way feeling much more relaxed now..Thanks again to you all

[compton3bravo]

Just a word of warning Dorking Malaga is very busy now and the non EU gates are very few with the Policia Nationale looking particularly hacked off and you will also need the Spanish health certificate. Crossing t/f Gib is OK but very strict - just doing there job. No fresh meat etc allowed from Gib into Spain. I suppose when one leaves a club there are not going to make life easy so nobody else decides to leave.Hope this helps.

[chaps1954]

I would say forget the months of Feb to April can be dicounted out as most of the new staff are only just coming through the training

[OzzyOzBorn]

Since the start of March, I have travelled through MAN as SLF sixteen times. Eight departures, eight arrivals. Six of the eight departures were first wave (T1, T2), two around midday or early afternoon (T3). On those departures, I experienced a maximum security queueing time of around twenty minutes, and on two occasions there was no discernable queue at all. On two of the eight inbound services, I did encounter delays at UK Border of approximately 30 minutes and 20 minutes respectively. The first of these (30 minutes - T1) was caused by the sequential arrival of several EasyJet and Ryanair flights within a short space of time. However, those two carriers no longer arrive at the same terminal, so the issue is at least partially resolved. The other wait of 20 minutes - also in T1 - was again down to the arrival of several flights in a short space of time. But on both of these occasions, the queue kept moving at a slow walking pace. On the other six occasions, I was pretty much straight through. I've seen alot worse elsewhere, including at destination on a couple of these trips.

Of course, we are all aware that there have been occasions when queues at MAN have built up to an unreasonable degree. But this is not the norm. It makes the media because it is exceptional ... and they certainly make sure to take full advantage of hyping up every occurrence, giving the impression that such delays are far more common than they are in reality. On another forum, I've noted people discussing the crowds in the terminal airside which are overwhelming the catering franchises. This is because passengers are heeding advice to arrive three hours before their flight, but are actually finding themselves through all check-in and security formalities inside thirty minutes. At least airside retailers and caterers are finally experiencing some joy. However, it is also important to keep in mind that this situation is not unique to Manchester. The 'three hours before' advice is pretty much generic at larger European airports, and no larger airport has been immune from instances of security queues backing up.

Forums like this always attract one or two characters who like to vent that [insert name of airport] is the worst in the world, worst they've ever used etc. Well then, they can't have used many if they speak of MAN in that way. I've travelled through 464 airports worldwide, and frankly - for most passengers - MAN would be quickly forgotten as a very average experience. It isn't in the top tier, but it is far removed from the really poor offerings as well.

If you're booked to fly out of MAN, don't fret or panic. Just allow a little extra time and chill. You'll be very unlucky to encounter the kind of queue which results in a missed flight unless YOU turn up at the last minute expecting to get away with cutting it fine. And remember this: some of those characters who trawl these threads spreading poison about the MAN passenger experience can be found in a cheerleading role on Liverpool Airport forums. Funny that. Maybe they post with an agenda which doesn't include the best interests of an unsuspecting reader on here?

[AirportPlanner1]

I suppose when one leaves a club there are not going to make life easy so nobody else decides to leave.Hope this helps.

“When I left the golf club they no longer let me play golf or use their facilities. It’s not that they are treating me the same as all other non-members, they are making a particular example of me to show remaining members what would happen to them if they left as well”

[Dorking]

Just a word of warning Dorking Malaga is very busy now and the non EU gates are very few with the Policia Nationale looking particularly hacked off and you will also need the Spanish health certificate. Crossing t/f Gib is OK but very strict - just doing there job. No fresh meat etc allowed from Gib into Spain. I suppose when one leaves a club there are not going to make life easy so nobody else decides to leave.Hope this helps.

Thanks Compton I'm aware but at least we will be there and just take time as opposed to a load of hassle before you start the journey...
Spanish are if course entitled to do as they want but an odd attitude when British are a very large part of their tourist industry that they are trying to rebuild..The Portuguese have in fact gone the other way to get more tourists in...But then Politics and business are often mutually exclusive, the world over

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Forums like this always attract one or two characters who like to vent that is the worst in the world, worst they've ever used etc. Well then, they can't have used many if they speak of MAN in that way. I've travelled through 464 airports worldwide, and frankly - for most passengers - MAN would be quickly forgotten as a very average experience. It isn't in the top tier,[i] but it is far removed from the really poor offerings as well.
And remember this: some of those characters who trawl these threads spreading poison about the MAN passenger experience can be found in a cheerleading role on Liverpool Airport forums. Funny that. Maybe they post with an agenda which doesn't include the best interests of an unsuspecting reader on here?
Depends if you rate MAN against 3rd world competition. Objectively, on a like for like comparison with it's European peers, MAN underperforms by quite some in terms of security getting people from A to B in a timely and efficient fashion for all the reasons discussed and pointed out. I too have flown through hundreds of airports across the many years and I genuinely loath the attitude of the security operation at MAN, it's particular and notable and frankly problematic from a customer experience standpoint. And that's not from a data point of one, there's a whole thread on flyertalk of people who have had the same experience at MAN and yet none for it's peers. It needs fixing, not tribally defending. I used to dread going through MAN as I knew the chances of a secondary search and a pointless wait were sky high, even when compared to comparable world airports in higher risk regions.

[DomyDom]

Thanks Compton I'm aware but at least we will be there and just take time as opposed to a load of hassle before you start the journey...
Spanish are if course entitled to do as they want but an odd attitude when British are a very large part of their tourist industry that they are trying to rebuild..The Portuguese have in fact gone the other way to get more tourists in...But then Politics and business are often mutually exclusive, the world over
It isn't really an odd attitude by the Spanish Dorking as it was the UK deciding to pull out of the EU Customs Union as part of Brexit thus ending the free movement of goods across the GIB/Spain (EU) border that has caused the problem. That's why Northern Ireland is in the CU so it eliminates a hard border between it and the Republic (EU). It's because it's in the nature of the post-Brexit trade agreement negotiated by Boris Johnson that free movement of goods, services and people between the UK and EU ends. For better or worse that's the reality of what 'taking back control' as sold by Brexit's advocates in the referendum looks like.

[OzzyOzBorn]

I've travelled through 464 airports worldwide, and frankly - for most passengers - MAN would be quickly forgotten as a very average experience.

The above is a quote from my latest post ...

It needs fixing, not tribally defending.

Skip's interpretation!!!

Now come on, Skip. You've told us on many occasions that you're an aviation ANALYST. In what world does a professional aviation ANALYST interpret my comment above as "tribally defending" Manchester Airport? Anyway, thanks for giving me the biggest laugh of the week! I've actually been pretty busy lately, so aside from three or four one-liners, my last substantial post on here was No. 1517 in the thread (April 6th) in which I critiqued Charlie Cornish's record in the wake of the departure of Karen Smart. I would be immensely surprised if anyone at MAG interpreted my views there as a "tribal defence" of Manchester Airport either! But don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

But I must tackle you on the substance of what you wrote also. Because I am going to defend MAN on one point in particular: you delight in perpetuating the myth (as afew persistent offenders on aviation forums do) that security staff at this airport are hostile towards customers. Remember Skip: these are real people that you're writing about, and some of them read forums like this. In my experience - and as a traveller through MAN it is extensive - the security staff I encounter at this airport have been professional, friendly and helpful on almost every occasion. I don't doubt that there is the occasional bad apple amongst any large work force, but I've clearly been far luckier than you in consistently avoiding interaction with them. If you have a bad experience, report the individual concerned. But don't come on the forums promulgating the impression that security staff at MAN are by default a group of ogres. It is disingenuous and uncalled for.

As for your suggestion that I must be comparing MAN against "3rd world competition" in order to conclude that "MAN would be quickly forgotten as a very average experience" ... words fail! Your credibility as a professional analyst will be in jeopardy of you persist in pushing nonsense like that! I have used airports on every continent bar Antarctica, but I would describe vanishingly few of them as "3rd world" - not a term I like anyway. But I absolutely stand by my assessment that MAN is "very average" - hardly effusive praise by any measure. As for bringing up 'Flyertalk' in the same breath as condemning 'tribal' posting ... give me a break!

[eye2eye5]

Ozzy, the issues with the MAN security staff are not a myth. They are well documented and go back a long way. In my experience, something changed significantly around the time of the departure of Gill Thompson. That may be coincidental, it may be not, but I know too many people personally who have had a poor experience withMAN security for it to be the odd bad apple. It’s down to bad management, nothing more than that.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

the security staff I encounter at this airport have been professional, friendly and helpful on almost every occasion
Sorry, do you mean Manchester, New Hampshire? MHT/KMHT? Good grief man.......
BTW I haven't worked in aviation for a few years, the money's better elsewhere but I know a skewed data point when I see one.

[pwalhx]

I have to support Ozzy on this, I by no means travel as much as I used to but probably transit the airport once a month at least. It is far from perfect, but not many airports are. I have never had a problem with security at Manchester they have always been polite, but that is probably as I am always polite to them also.

[Vokes55]

Im with Skip on this one. As somebody who has been through security as crew (and pax) in more U.K. airports than not, MAN is by far the worst in this country, both in terms of waiting times/secondary search likelihood, and security staff attitude. God help you if you forget to remove your belt or epaulettes, or leave a lip balm in the bottom of your bag.

I had the full MAN experience a couple of weeks ago. The place is a dump, an embarrassment to the country. No wonder none of the US carriers will touch it any more.

[AirportPlanner1]

People that make ‘Third World’ statements like above demonstrate they know nothing about the ‘third world’ and certainly have never been. If anything, airports in the ‘third world’ are often better than ours in terms of quality of service.

[OzzyOzBorn]

eye2eye5. I have always acknowledged that there are issues. Of course - but that is true in almost any large operation. However, I differ with the interpretation of some posters on the extent of these at MAN. Perspective is required. Read what I just wrote upthread ... sixteen recent journeys through MAN and no problems to get excited about. I'm either very lucky indeed or the extent of the problems is overhyped ... my money is on the latter. And certainly, I can't fault the attitude of the security staff I've interacted with in that time. They've been professional and friendly each time.

I am a great admirer of Gil Thompson's legacy. But I suspect that MAN has seen a 100% turnover in security staff since those days. It's a different world. Indeed, I suspect that there has been a 90% turnover of security staff since the emergence of covid. That's the crux of the problem: a large pool of completely new staff who need to obtain their airside security credentials and then learn the job. Those people aren't obnoxious. They're new, positive, and in the early weeks of learning a new job.

But, of course, on forums such as this, there are always one or two posters who bang their fists and demand acknowledgment that MAN is by far the worst airport in the entire world in every respect, and if you don't bow to that narrative then you're "tribally defending" the airport in some unreasonable way. The reality: Manchester Airport is pretty average. Not the best, not the worst (by far). Instantly forgotten for the majority of frequent travellers. In 99.9% of cases, it will do the job you need it to do. Get you from kerbside to aircraft or vice-versa with an adequate experience within a budget cost (for those who don't wish to pay extra for business lounges etc.).

[OzzyOzBorn]

Sorry, do you mean Manchester, New Hampshire? MHT/KMHT? Good grief man.......

As it happens, I have flown through MHT/KMHT. I can't recall what their security arrangements were like ... it must have been quickly forgotten as a very average experience!

I know a skewed data point when I see one.

Based upon what you have written, the jury is out on that one!

No wonder none of the US carriers will touch it any more.

The Transatlantic carriers have retrenched from the regions (and LGW) to LHR in order to protect their slot banks there until business rebuilds to approach and reliably sustain pre-pandemic levels. They have not left MAN due to dissatisfaction with the airport experience, and they enjoyed very healthy customer demand here too. That's why United Airlines looks good for a return once normality is restored to Transatlantic travel flows. Delta Air Lines would point out that their partnership with Virgin Atlantic represents their MAN presence (Virgin too have suspended a number of regional services including some from MAN to concentrate on safeguarding LHR slots). Oneworld is now represented at MAN by the new Aer Lingus Transatlantic base ... this has allowed American Airlines to likewise concentrate on protecting high-value slot assets at LHR. As for up-and-coming US carriers ... they're already known to be checking out the proposition offered by MAN. Watch this space?

It is a little bit naughty to conflate your personal distaste for MAN with a suggestion that all US carriers have exited MAN during the biggest pandemic in the history of the industry because they have an issue with the airport's passenger experience!

[BACsuperVC10]

Since the start of March, I have travelled through MAN as SLF sixteen times. Eight departures, eight arrivals. Six of the eight departures were first wave (T1, T2), two around midday or early afternoon (T3). On those departures, I experienced a maximum security queueing time of around twenty minutes, and on two occasions there was no discernable queue at all. On two of the eight inbound services, I did encounter delays at UK Border of approximately 30 minutes and 20 minutes respectively. The first of these (30 minutes - T1) was caused by the sequential arrival of several EasyJet and Ryanair flights within a short space of time. However, those two carriers no longer arrive at the same terminal, so the issue is at least partially resolved. The other wait of 20 minutes - also in T1 - was again down to the arrival of several flights in a short space of time. But on both of these occasions, the queue kept moving at a slow walking pace. On the other six occasions, I was pretty much straight through. I've seen alot worse elsewhere, including at destination on a couple of these trips.

Of course, we are all aware that there have been occasions when queues at MAN have built up to an unreasonable degree. But this is not the norm. It makes the media because it is exceptional ... and they certainly make sure to take full advantage of hyping up every occurrence, giving the impression that such delays are far more common than they are in reality. On another forum, I've noted people discussing the crowds in the terminal airside which are overwhelming the catering franchises. This is because passengers are heeding advice to arrive three hours before their flight, but are actually finding themselves through all check-in and security formalities inside thirty minutes. At least airside retailers and caterers are finally experiencing some joy. However, it is also important to keep in mind that this situation is not unique to Manchester. The 'three hours before' advice is pretty much generic at larger European airports, and no larger airport has been immune from instances of security queues backing up.

Forums like this always attract one or two characters who like to vent that [insert name of airport] is the worst in the world, worst they've ever used etc. Well then, they can't have used many if they speak of MAN in that way. I've travelled through 464 airports worldwide, and frankly - for most passengers - MAN would be quickly forgotten as a very average experience. It isn't in the top tier, but it is far removed from the really poor offerings as well.

If you're booked to fly out of MAN, don't fret or panic. Just allow a little extra time and chill. You'll be very unlucky to encounter the kind of queue which results in a missed flight unless YOU turn up at the last minute expecting to get away with cutting it fine. And remember this: some of those characters who trawl these threads spreading poison about the MAN passenger experience can be found in a cheerleading role on Liverpool Airport forums. Funny that. Maybe they post with an agenda which doesn't include the best interests of an unsuspecting reader on here?


Allow a bit of extra time like 5 hours to pass through which one of my collegues experienced . He had just changed his next flight to ex Liverpool, and does not plan to use Manchester again. No fun travelling with 2 kiddies queued down the steet.

[BACsuperVC10]

Thanks to you all for the information...I was expecting carnage..They really are hopeless there ..I've bitten the expensive bullet and switched the outbound to Liverpool and travelling to Malaga instead of Gibraltar and crossing into Spain will be a lot easier there as well...
Liverpool security is apparently normal and they are even offering Fast track, which at £4 a head seems wise, at times like these..
Might even have time for brekkie at Frankie and Benny's..
Either way feeling much more relaxed now..Thanks again to you all

Security is operating normally at Liverpool, im flying to Jersey from there on Saturday and Frankfurt on Wednesday. I can let you know.

[HOVIS]

Im with Skip on this one. As somebody who has been through security as crew (and pax) in more U.K. airports than not, MAN is by far the worst in this country, both in terms of waiting times/secondary search likelihood, and security staff attitude. God help you if you forget to remove your belt or epaulettes, or leave a lip balm in the bottom of your bag.

I had the full MAN experience a couple of weeks ago. The place is a dump, an embarrassment to the country. No wonder none of the US carriers will touch it any more.
Did you have to remove your belt going through the staff channel?
I only ask as the staff channel I use,, at MAN, you don't have to.

[OzzyOzBorn]

BACsuperVC10. Incorrigible Liverpool cheerleader - check the LPL thread. I wondered when you'd be along to talk down MAN. You never miss the opportunity ... either here or on similar forums.

If you allow 5 hours to pass through MAN, be sure to bring enough money to pay for four hours at the refreshment outlets airside.

BTW, security is operating normally at Manchester as well. My next flight out is next Wednesday, back Friday. I'll let you know.

[Mr Mac]

OzzyOzBorn
Your post 1686 sums up my own feelings about the place, I came back through today with no hassle, though I do find it run down (I am usually using T1) and have only been through T2 a couple of times and find it a little uninspiring. However the lifts and escalator's were working today and fast track inbound got me landside and out of car park in 45 min which is good. With regards to security it is a thankless task, and not helped when the airport has a lot of bucket and spade travelers who may only do one or two flights a year so you have the issues of liquids in bags etc as it is something they are not used on a regular basis. Overall as you say not the best or worst but definitely getting tired in an infrastructure sense and I have done a good many airports world wide like others posting many in less well off countries which are significantly better than Manchester.

Hovis
The belt thing seems to be a Manchester preoccupation as some other airports do not seem to bother and the same with shoes depending on shoe design.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[eye2eye5]

Ozzy, I’m not sure I follow you. I hope you aren’t suggesting that staff at MAN can be abrasive because they aren’t the same as they were before Covid? Feedback on attitude has appeared in forums for years. Staff are as good as they are trained to be. If they have a bad attitude, then they shouldn’t have been recruited in the first place. Of course it takes time to learn the job, I can only hope that the staff parachuted in from elsewhere teach the trainees the appropriate customer service skills before they leave. My daughter is on VS next week, I’m sure she will give me feedback on her experience.

[OzzyOzBorn]

I hope you aren’t suggesting that staff at MAN can be abrasive because

I have not suggested that staff at MAN are 'abrasive' at all. 'Pleasant', 'Helpful' and 'Professional' were the words I have been using with reference to the security staff I have encountered across eight outbound trips from MAN since the beginning of March.

[commit aviation]

CAVU | About (https://ca.vu/about)

Not seen much publicity about this, perhaps because the focus is on getting the airport operations on track.

[BACsuperVC10]

BACsuperVC10. Incorrigible Liverpool cheerleader - check the LPL thread. I wondered when you'd be along to talk down MAN. You never miss the opportunity ... either here or on similar forums.

If you allow 5 hours to pass through MAN, be sure to bring enough money to pay for four hours at the refreshment outlets airside.

BTW, security is operating normally at Manchester as well. My next flight out is next Wednesday, back Friday. I'll let you know.

So delusional . Lol...all the reports are just fiction . Security is not operating normally as you well know.

[Vokes55]

The Transatlantic carriers have retrenched from the regions (and LGW) to LHR in order to protect their slot banks there until business rebuilds to approach and reliably sustain pre-pandemic levels. They have not left MAN due to dissatisfaction with the airport experience, and they enjoyed very healthy customer demand here too. That's why United Airlines looks good for a return once normality is restored to Transatlantic travel flows. Delta Air Lines would point out that their partnership with Virgin Atlantic represents their MAN presence (Virgin too have suspended a number of regional services including some from MAN to concentrate on safeguarding LHR slots). Oneworld is now represented at MAN by the new Aer Lingus Transatlantic base ... this has allowed American Airlines to likewise concentrate on protecting high-value slot assets at LHR. As for up-and-coming US carriers ... they're already known to be checking out the proposition offered by MAN. Watch this space?

It is a little bit naughty to conflate your personal distaste for MAN with a suggestion that all US carriers have exited MAN during the biggest pandemic in the history of the industry because they have an issue with the airport's passenger experience!

United have increased the amount of flights from LHR this year. Are you saying that they'd now rather protect somebody else's slots than fly out of MAN? They also seem to have found enough demand and resources for an even bigger schedule out of EDI and DUB and have even returned to little old Shannon. But yes, they're just recovering from Covid, you must be right. Aer Lingus are trying to plug a gap left by Thomas Cook and their loads have been dire.

The only person cheerleading here is you. The whole place is a dump and not fit for purpose, just accept it.

[OzzyOzBorn]

So delusional . Lol...all the reports are just fiction . Security is not operating normally as you well know.

Passenger processing through T3 at MAN resumed effective 22nd April. This resolved the issue of Ryanair and EasyJet passengers being security-processed through the same channels in T1, a major factor in the problem periods reported prior to this. But now departing passengers are being processed through facilities in all three terminals as was the case before covid. Also known as operating normally (as I wrote).

Sorry that this state of affairs doesn't fit your narrative of eternal meltdown at MAN so that you can insist that all customers should instead travel via LPL. You really are too transparent, but I applaud your tireless dedication to your cause.

[OzzyOzBorn]

The only person cheerleading here is you. The whole place is a dump and not fit for purpose, just accept it.

Yes, Vokes. You got me. Describing an airport experience as 'average' and 'quickly forgettable for most' surely does meet the definition of cheerleading. Confirming that the airport security staff weren't beastly to me during my eight recent departures through MAN is surely cheerleading too. That just has to be a lie. Meanwhile, all readers scanning what you have written will instantly recognise your impartial and balanced assessment of the situation, so unlike my own. I must avoid getting so emotional when I post.

So ... You raise the issue of Transatlantic demand again. OK, I'll address your points, though I don't plan to divert this thread into an in-depth debate on the topic. LHR's situation is unique. Slots there change hands for exorbitant sums and are considered to be assets on an operator's balance sheet. Of course carriers will seek to protect their LHR slot bank, and if the opportunity to grab more slots arises they'll do that too. It's good business, and if it means diverting resources from other routes to sustain it, so be it. We're seeing that phenomenon in action.

Levels of customer demand reflect an unusual market situation. Many customers are holding travel vouchers issued in lieu of trips cancelled over the last two years of covidworld. If left unused, these risk expiry - in most cases during this calendar year. So the pressure is on for travellers to cash them in and use them while they can. In addition to this market, we also have many people who have been unable to meet with family and friends for upto three years ... large numbers will do what it takes to rectify that in the short-term. Of course, many of these customers are voucher-holders too. So airlines are seeing a demand bulge based primarily on these two factors. The problem is, will this level of demand be sustained once those vouchers have been redeemed and the reunions and delayed weddings have played out? How much new money is really coming in on ticket sales? We don't yet know, but inflation pressures, soaring fuel prices and the cost of living crisis may offer us some clues on that. The airlines will be in no hurry to commit to additional long-term risk until things become alot clearer. And we don't yet know whether a new raft of covid measures will be reimposed this coming Winter. Hopefully not, but we can't rule it out.

Now your reference to Edinburgh, Dublin and 'little old Shannon' (as you call it). Are you acquainted with historic migration patterns? The market for bringing Irish-Americans across for a visit to their spiritual home is absolutely enormous. Scotland enjoys a good measure of this too, and also enjoys a positive tourism profile for US customers who enjoy heritage, whisky, golf and the rest. So Ireland and Scotland are a big draw for eastbound US-domiciled leisure travellers. Many will hold vouchers based on unfulfilled travel to these destinations. The market at Manchester is quite different in composition. Passengers using Transatlantic services from Manchester are heavily skewed towards UK-domiciled customers. This is a big reason why we see brands familiar with the UK-originating market dominating here. Delta is backing their Virgin Atlantic partner brand for the Manchester market. Oneworld has switched to Aer Lingus metal. United is looking to return when market conditions become more predictable. TUI is back in the Florida market. Rapidly-expanding US independents are assessing the Manchester proposition.

If you can supply load factor and yield data for the Aer Lingus long-haul base at MAN, please do share with us. You offer the impression of being well-informed on the subject. Though I do point out that Aer Lingus is in an unusual situation. The EUK Transatlantic operation is a new start-up, so their loads will not be bulked-up by voucher holders who have seen earlier trips cancelled. Aer Lingus needs to attract completely new bookings, and that isn't easy in this market.

That's where we are, but by all means cling to your narrative that all US carriers have exited Manchester because they hate the airport experience and 'the place is a dump and not fit for purpose' ... I presume that this includes the brand new T2 infrastructure which the remaining Transatlantic services are now using? Yes, that must be it.

[SWBKCB]

So delusional . Lol...all the reports are just fiction . Security is not operating normally as you well know.

This is all a bit "he said, she said", but at least OOB's comments are based on regular, current first-hand experience rather han third-hand reports - and having been involved in previous discussions, he's certainly no one-eyed cheerleader for the airport and its current management regime.

People need to remember that Twitter and other social media REPORTSs don't always totally accurately reflect the real world, and the the PR/media team at MAN need to be doing more

[BTNH]

If you want the full security screen try taking a baby with lots of baby milk to the usa. Then you will know what a lovely experience that is of course MAN security has a few moody people but nothing more or less then elsewhere. I have been plenty of times though the airport and through all 3 terminals. I had never really bad issues with MAN security. I usally use fast track and if you are nice to them i am sure they will be nice to you as well.

[Vokes55]

Yes, Vokes. You got me. Describing an airport experience as 'average' and 'quickly forgettable for most' surely does meet the definition of cheerleading. Confirming that the airport security staff weren't beastly to me during my eight recent departures through MAN is surely cheerleading too. That just has to be a lie. Meanwhile, all readers scanning what you have written will instantly recognise your impartial and balanced assessment of the situation, so unlike my own. I must avoid getting so emotional when I post.

So ... You raise the issue of Transatlantic demand again. OK, I'll address your points, though I don't plan to divert this thread into an in-depth debate on the topic. LHR's situation is unique. Slots there change hands for exorbitant sums and are considered to be assets on an operator's balance sheet. Of course carriers will seek to protect their LHR slot bank, and if the opportunity to grab more slots arises they'll do that too. It's good business, and if it means diverting resources from other routes to sustain it, so be it. We're seeing that phenomenon in action.

Levels of customer demand reflect an unusual market situation. Many customers are holding travel vouchers issued in lieu of trips cancelled over the last two years of covidworld. If left unused, these risk expiry - in most cases during this calendar year. So the pressure is on for travellers to cash them in and use them while they can. In addition to this market, we also have many people who have been unable to meet with family and friends for upto three years ... large numbers will do what it takes to rectify that in the short-term. Of course, many of these customers are voucher-holders too. So airlines are seeing a demand bulge based primarily on these two factors. The problem is, will this level of demand be sustained once those vouchers have been redeemed and the reunions and delayed weddings have played out? How much new money is really coming in on ticket sales? We don't yet know, but inflation pressures, soaring fuel prices and the cost of living crisis may offer us some clues on that. The airlines will be in no hurry to commit to additional long-term risk until things become alot clearer. And we don't yet know whether a new raft of covid measures will be reimposed this coming Winter. Hopefully not, but we can't rule it out.

Now your reference to Edinburgh, Dublin and 'little old Shannon' (as you call it). Are you acquainted with historic migration patterns? The market for bringing Irish-Americans across for a visit to their spiritual home is absolutely enormous. Scotland enjoys a good measure of this too, and also enjoys a positive tourism profile for US customers who enjoy heritage, whisky, golf and the rest. So Ireland and Scotland are a big draw for eastbound US-domiciled leisure travellers. Many will hold vouchers based on unfulfilled travel to these destinations. The market at Manchester is quite different in composition. Passengers using Transatlantic services from Manchester are heavily skewed towards UK-domiciled customers. This is a big reason why we see brands familiar with the UK-originating market dominating here. Delta is backing their Virgin Atlantic partner brand for the Manchester market. Oneworld has switched to Aer Lingus metal. United is looking to return when market conditions become more predictable. TUI is back in the Florida market. Rapidly-expanding US independents are assessing the Manchester proposition.

If you can supply load factor and yield data for the Aer Lingus long-haul base at MAN, please do share with us. You offer the impression of being well-informed on the subject. Though I do point out that Aer Lingus is in an unusual situation. The EUK Transatlantic operation is a new start-up, so their loads will not be bulked-up by voucher holders who have seen earlier trips cancelled. Aer Lingus needs to attract completely new bookings, and that isn't easy in this market.

That's where we are, but by all means cling to your narrative that all US carriers have exited Manchester because they hate the airport experience and 'the place is a dump and not fit for purpose' ... I presume that this includes the brand new T2 infrastructure which the remaining Transatlantic services are now using? Yes, that must be it.

And yet despite all that, these carriers have restored almost their entire networks in Europe except flights to Manchester? Do tell us which “rapidly-expanding US independents” are “assessing the Manchester proposition”? You offer the impression of being well-informed on the subject. Dare I say even if that were remotely true, they’d take one look at the place and it’s issues and walk away.

My narrative isn’t that US carriers have exited MAN because “they” hate the airport experience, it’s almost entirely due to demand. But demand is created or lost on a number of factors - airport experience, customer feedback, disruption data being some of them - and the current state of the place isn’t going to win them back any time soon.

As for Aer Lingus, 102 on MCO yesterday, 114 on Tuesday and 108 on Monday. Inbound 72 on Tuesday, 89 yesterday and 61 today. JFK similar numbers but faring slightly better thanks to being on a smaller aircraft. Furthermore, these routes are nothing to do with Oneworld. They are point to point routes plugging a gap left by Thomas Cook and attempting to trash VS yields. If the routes were operating in lieu of AA, they’d be going into major hubs like PHL, ORD or CLT. The only Oneworld presence at MAN for the Transatlantic market is via LHR (or DUB).

[BACsuperVC10]

Passenger processing through T3 at MAN resumed effective 22nd April. This resolved the issue of Ryanair and EasyJet passengers being security-processed through the same channels in T1, a major factor in the problem periods reported prior to this. But now departing passengers are being processed through facilities in all three terminals as was the case before covid. Also known as operating normally (as I wrote).

Sorry that this state of affairs doesn't fit your narrative of eternal meltdown at MAN so that you can insist that all customers should instead travel via LPL. You really are too transparent, but I applaud your tireless dedication to your cause.

OK well I will tell my colleague he was making it all up. As for the photos of passengers queued down the street all over Twitter etc, they must all be fake too. I don't insist anyone flies from anywhere in particular, I just use LPL more because of ease of use, and highlight there is an alternative in the NW and there's nothing wrong with that.

[SCFC1EP]

Went through T1 yesterday for 0705 easyjet to Amsterdam arrived at 0530hrs with hand luggage only no queue at all at security was through in less than 5 minutes
Returned at 1430hrs again no queue at passport control and out in less than 5 minutes
Honestly it's a lottery one day you sail through the next you don't, went to Palma 3 weeks ago arrive at 5am queue was outside to doors going onto drop off on level 5 at the far end , but to my surprise we was through in 40 minutes
must admit staff have got power going to their heads put my mobile phone into tray along with a small clear bag and a cardigan only but the phone had the charger lead attached was told to remove it before going through , seriously what difference does it make, previously been asked what's in the clear plastic bag, these are the bags issued when you join the queue, and no there was no small liquids in bag just car keys passport boarding cards, they do not help themselves, and yes on the other hand passengers don't help especially usually the female holiday makers with everything in their hand luggage
On return yesterday no queue whats so ever at passport control but we was directed to boarder control for manual check even though all 10 e-gates were open but not being used,luckily I just redirected myself to e-gate and went through no problem, then everyone else just followed the same, but it's these small things that give the staff bad reputation and can be easily avoided,

[OzzyOzBorn]

And yet despite all that, these carriers have restored almost their entire networks in Europe except flights to Manchester?

You exaggerate the extent of the return of US flights to continental Europe, but I do take your point. And even destinations which are back on the map don't necessarily enjoy the original frequencies. The issue which holds back MAN (and LGW, STN, BHX etc.) is geographical proximity to LHR, and in particular that it is accessible from the catchments of these airports by rail, coach and car overland. We discussed earlier why carriers will throw everything at protecting their LHR presence, so I won't repeat the details.

Do tell us which “rapidly-expanding US independents” are “assessing the Manchester proposition”? You offer the impression of being well-informed on the subject. Dare I say even if that were remotely true, they’d take one look at the place and it’s issues and walk away.


Jetblue was one of two names mentioned. The other was a US domestic carrier with NEO's on order and Transatlantic ambitions. I read about them in an article interviewing one of their executives several weeks ago ... I'm trying to remember the name of the carrier, but it surprised me that they were interested. The article was linked to a number of forums at the time and reported on social media, so if any reader here can recall the details please do post. Meanwhile, I'll see if I can locate the original interview and get back to you if so. As for taking one look at the place and walking away, why haven't Bangladesh Biman, Kuwait Airways, Gulf Air, Corendon, Sun Express, Nice Air, Emerald or Aer Lingus UK themselves done that? They're all recent entrants or imminent new operators at MAN. Fortunately, carriers make decisions based on the business proposition. The whims of a random forum contributor with an axe to grind won't influence their decisions.

Furthermore, these routes are nothing to do with Oneworld. They are point to point routes plugging a gap left by Thomas Cook and attempting to trash VS yields. If the routes were operating in lieu of AA, they’d be going into major hubs like PHL, ORD or CLT. The only Oneworld presence at MAN for the Transatlantic market is via LHR (or DUB).

In the quote above, you refer to Aer Lingus UK. May I invite you to look up the following flight numbers: BA6152/BA6153 and BA6154/6155. As I'm sure you will realise, BA is the flight code of Oneworld carrier British Airways, and these are their codeshare flight numbers on Aer Lingus UK's Orlando and New York JFK routes out of MAN. Of course, both British Airways and Aer Lingus UK form part of IAG - they are sister companies, so it is unsurprising that they work together. American Airlines also works closely with IAG (including codeshares with Aer Lingus), but I don't believe they codeshare on MAN-JFK / MCO yet. I would guess that their immediate priority is to bolster demand for their own services out of LHR.

Addressing the issue of the Thomas Cook collapse (which came before covid dominated all thinking), IAG was left with a challenging dilemma. Leave Virgin-Delta to develop an unassailable position in the North, or take the plunge and compete with them directly. They chose the latter, and Aer Lingus UK was the vehicle set up for the purpose. So of course they're competing with Virgin robustly. That was the whole point. But, as we know, covid intervened between then and now. The launch of EUK was delayed and the proposed schedule pared back. The loadings you cite illustrate how difficult the current market is when voucher redemption passengers are stripped away.

If the routes were operating in lieu of AA, they’d be going into major hubs like PHL, ORD or CLT. The only Oneworld presence at MAN for the Transatlantic market is via LHR (or DUB).

Not necessarily. MCO and JFK were logical choices for the initial launch. BOS and ORD were also under consideration, but caution has become the watchword in the wake of covid. My guess is that both the US and the UK will face a recession over coming months, and if so I could see further expansion remaining on hold for the foreseeable.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

In the quote above, you refer to Aer Lingus UK. May I invite you to look up the following flight numbers: BA6152/BA6153 and BA6154/6155. As I'm sure you will realise, BA is the flight code of Oneworld carrier British Airways, and these are their codeshare flight numbers on Aer Lingus UK's Orlando and New York JFK routes out of MAN.
Technically true but in all honesty, synergies and working together here must be almost zero. Aer Lingus UK was a desperate (but why not?) attempt by EI to get their aircraft flying again and in all honesty if they're still flying by next summer once DUB flying rebounds I'd be amazed. They're a stand alone operation as demonstrated by not even being in the same terminal as Aer Lingus, let alone BA.

Leave Virgin-Delta to develop an unassailable position in the North
On mainly point to point leisure I don't think Waterworld care in the least, on MAN-JFK/ATL possibly more so but if BA had any skin in the game they'd have fought to keep American having SOME presence at MAN. Immediately after the US/AA merger they had four daily flights on MAN-ORD/JFK/PHL/CLT, I don't think they care anymore.

[Vokes55]

You exaggerate the extent of the return of US flights to continental Europe, but I do take your point. And even destinations which are back on the map don't necessarily enjoy the original frequencies. The issue which holds back MAN (and LGW, STN, BHX etc.) is geographical proximity to LHR, and in particular that it is accessible from the catchments of these airports by rail, coach and car overland. We discussed earlier why carriers will throw everything at protecting their LHR presence, so I won't repeat the details.


Exaggerate? United will be flying to Bergen, Palma, Tenerife and Naples this Summer, to name a few, as well as the aforementioned increases in core markets. United see more potential in flying to Tenerife than Manchester. However you dress it and whatever reason you want to give, that's a damning indictment of the airport.

As for taking one look at the place and walking away, why haven't Bangladesh Biman, Kuwait Airways, Gulf Air, Corendon, Sun Express, Nice Air, Emerald or Aer Lingus UK themselves done that? They're all recent entrants or imminent new operators at MAN. Fortunately, carriers make decisions based on the business proposition. The whims of a random forum contributor with an axe to grind won't influence their decisions.

Do you really need me to explain why the first five of those airlines you've listed have chosen to fly to Manchester?

As for your analysis on Aer Lingus UK, I'd say you're being naive. It's a Virgin spoiler, nothing more and nothing less. If VS were to collapse tomorrow, Aer Lingus UK would be gone by Monday. Much like the MAN-LGW shuttle to ensure BA are represented in searches for MAN-ISB. IAG probably don't care if their MCO service only has 61 passengers onboard, as that's 61 passengers potentially taken from Virgin. They did the exact same thing with Norwegian in London. As you rightly point out, there is no AA code share on these flights because they're absolutely nothing to do with American, and American have no interest in MAN.

[OzzyOzBorn]

OK well I will tell my colleague he was making it all up.

He is certainly a desperately unfortunate chap. But did he allow five hours or require five hours to get through security? Maybe he knew what you wanted to hear and over-egged the tale somewhat?

As for the photos of passengers queued down the street all over Twitter etc, they must all be fake too.

Not fake, but perhaps misrepresented. A photo cannot tell us how quickly the queue was moving, and that is important. Was one security lane open or many lanes? When were the photos taken - before April 22nd when T3 reopened fully, or since then? What queue is actually shown ... mainstream newspapers showed a "security queue" in which passengers had large suitcases with them ... clue: it was the TUI check-in queue! We've also seen plenty of instances where passengers have tweeted photos of the "security queue" at UK Border ... clue: it's actually the immigration queue which generally keeps moving at a slow walking pace. All is not as it seems, and some are motivated to sensationalise their experience.

I don't insist anyone flies from anywhere in particular, I just use LPL more because of ease of use, and highlight there is an alternative in the NW and there's nothing wrong with that.

Nothing wrong with promoting use of your local airport amongst your contacts. But it is not OK to misrepresent the experience at the competition in order to scare them into switching.

[SWBKCB]

Guess what?

MEN - Mixed bag at Manchester Airport as some complain about 'disgraceful' security queues - while others 'sail through' (https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/mixed-bag-manchester-airport-complain-23934965)

It's been a mixed bag at Manchester today - with some people reporting 'absolutely disgraceful' security queues, and others 'sailing through'. One woman said the queue she experienced at security was 'genuinely ridiculous'.1,600 applicants having applied for jobs at the airport in April alone, with 550 recruits on the floor since January, and 500 new starters currently going through vetting and security training. A further 200 workers are expected to join the operation in May, enabling management to open more security lanes in peak periods, and 'improve customer service'.

Ian Costigan, interim managing director of Manchester Airport, added: "We want to make sure that customers get away on their travels, so everyone at Manchester Airport is focused on bringing in the extra resources we need to continue operating our full flight schedule. It is encouraging to see new staff joining us as a result of our ongoing recruitment drive, and we have seen security waiting times reduce in recent weeks. The last few weeks have been challenging but the team on the ground has done a great job in getting passengers through security more quickly, and I would like to thank all colleagues for their hard work and dedication.

[gsky]

Technically true but in all honesty, synergies and working together here must be almost zero. Aer Lingus UK was a desperate (but why not?) attempt by EI to get their aircraft flying again and in all honesty if they're still flying by next summer once DUB flying rebounds I'd be amazed. They're a stand alone operation as demonstrated by not even being in the same terminal as Aer Lingus, let alone BA.


On mainly point to point leisure I don't think Waterworld care in the least, on MAN-JFK/ATL possibly more so but if BA had any skin in the game they'd have fought to keep American having SOME presence at MAN. Immediately after the US/AA merger they had four daily flights on MAN-ORD/JFK/PHL/CLT, I don't think they care anymore.


I dont think they cared before!
Some years ago BA used to operate and B767 MAN-JFK ( as I am sure many will recall) and everytime I tried to book a flight ex MAN to JFK, they would try and route me through LHR.
Then they chopped the flight because it did not pay.
Of course it did not pay because BA would route passengers via LHR.
They NEVER 'cared' about MAN originating traffic !

[OzzyOzBorn]

Technically true

Technically true = Actually true (but you wish it was not!).

Aer Lingus UK was a desperate (but why not?) attempt by EI to get their aircraft flying again and in all honesty if they're still flying by next summer once DUB flying rebounds I'd be amazed. They're a stand alone operation as demonstrated by not even being in the same terminal as Aer Lingus, let alone BA.

It's a Virgin spoiler, nothing more and nothing less. If VS were to collapse tomorrow, Aer Lingus UK would be gone by Monday.

Similar points from two different contributors here, so I'll address them together. My own post explained that the EUK operation was IAG's way of ensuring that Virgin Atlantic didn't get a free run in the North. As such, I agree that it would be seen as "job done" if they were to see off Virgin. And in the event of a recession (which seems very likely), a fledgling operation of this sort would be at risk. However, I see no reason for them to be in the same terminal as BA at MAN. BA's services to MAN are from London, and connecting passengers from there are not the target market. Meanwhile, EUK's destinations are served direct from Dublin by EIN, so little need to be co-located with them either. And the new facilities in T2 are far better suited to a long-haul operation than those of T1.

American having SOME presence at MAN. Immediately after the US/AA merger they had four daily flights on MAN-ORD/JFK/PHL/CLT, I don't think they care anymore.

I agree that American Airlines seemed uninterested in MAN for quite some time before their ultimate exit. For years they used their oldest kit, chopped and changed, and cancelled flights at the drop of a hat. I think it dates right back to the introduction of Continental at MAN which really hacked off their management back in the day. Fortunately, they're not the only carrier in the market, and I would expect transatlantic services on core routes to be maintained from MAN by alternative carriers.

United will be flying to Bergen, Palma, Tenerife and Naples this Summer, to name a few

Exactly. And what do those destinations have in common? LEISURE TRAVELLERS. We touched on this when discussing DUB, SNN and EDI earlier. US-domiciled leisure travellers are making bookings and using up vouchers. This backlogged vacation demand is propping things up, because business travel remains pretty cold. Carriers which shunned leisure travellers in the past are courting them now. In some markets, they're the only game in town.

As for your analysis on Aer Lingus UK, I'd say you're being naive.

Then why do you go on to argue that the operation was created as a vehicle to impede Virgin Atlantic, which is exactly what I pointed out in my "naive analysis"?

Do you really need me to explain why the first five of those airlines you've listed have chosen to fly to Manchester?

Please do. I had assumed that they had identified a market opportunity, but perhaps you know differently?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Technically true = Actually true (but you wish it was not!).
I have no skin in this game, why on earth would I wish it to be untrue? It is what is. You're the one emotionally invested with years of service and loyalty to an airport, to a business that has changed beyond all recognition. I am happy to see Virgin doing well out of MAN off the back of strong UK POS brand recognition as well as being disappointed that Delta left. I am appalled that American are so reliant on LHR that the rest of the European network is a fraction of what it once was. I am saddened United just gave up. BUT nowadays I understand why markets change over time, why priorities move and why assets need to be redeployed to where they can make most money. Sentiment can kill any business if you let it guide you too far. Best example was the palpable shock when Midland dropped GLA-LHR, people were aghast BUT that core market had been changed and fragmented to pieces over many years and it was only a shock to those who hadn't been watching the process.
I dont think they cared before! Some years ago BA used to operate and B767 MAN-JFK ( as I am sure many will recall) and everytime I tried to book a flight ex MAN to JFK, they would try and route me through LHR. Then they chopped the flight because it did not pay. Of course it did not pay because BA would route passengers via LHR. They NEVER 'cared' about MAN originating traffic !
Fair point, care is the wrong word. BA's business units had to compete to make a business case for assets (aircraft) and head office had a clear preference for a LHR focus as that's where most of the money was made. They could easily offer multiple daily MAN-LHR-JFK connections and redeploy the B767 onto a LHR-xyz rotation. It's not fair but nowadays I understand a lot more about how finance teams come to decision and why management often just go along with them.... It's not personal nor an anti regions bias, it is usually guided by some cold numbers.
Speaking of cold, given MAN has dropped so much transatlantic capacity, you really, really hope they're going to offer Norse Atlantic the sweetest of welcome deals.....?

[BACsuperVC10]

He is certainly a desperately unfortunate chap. But did he allow five hours or require five hours to get through security? Maybe he knew what you wanted to hear and over-egged the tale somewhat?





Not fake, but perhaps misrepresented. A photo cannot tell us how quickly the queue was moving, and that is important. Was one security lane open or many lanes? When were the photos taken - before April 22nd when T3 reopened fully, or since then? What queue is actually shown ... mainstream newspapers showed a "security queue" in which passengers had large suitcases with them ... clue: it was the TUI check-in queue! We've also seen plenty of instances where passengers have tweeted photos of the "security queue" at UK Border ... clue: it's actually the immigration queue which generally keeps moving at a slow walking pace. All is not as it seems, and some are motivated to sensationalise their experience.





Nothing wrong with promoting use of your local airport amongst your contacts. But it is not OK to misrepresent the experience at the competition in order to scare them into switching.
I am not scaring anyone to switch, they make their own mind up from the information available published or broadcasted, simple as that.
As for my workmate, I didn't ask anymore, he just said the whole process took him that long. He said he had not time to sit down and eat once in departures, had to grab a sandwich.
Perhaps some are misrepresented, but you will have to acknowledge enough people are disgruntled, that the issues cant just be waved away .

[easyflyer83]

I too believe that US carriers are voting with their feet is a load of tosh. The experience isn’t great for sure but, unless there are notable reductions in pax numbers, do you honestly think the airlines care that much? And why do you think that UA minds but LH doesn’t?

Transatlantic has always been business and leisure orientated and both have taken a battering. Going East, the carriers have the added benefit of strong VFR traffic which isn’t as apparent to the states.

DL has VS at MAN, AA’s heart wasn’t particularly in it before covid and that was nothing to do with the airport experience either. That leaves UA.

[MARK 101]

The United flights that are quoted in Europe all have 1 major thing in common, they are all big cruise destinations. Sadly as far as US leisure traffic is concerned the UK is purely London or to a lesser extent Edinburgh.
places like MAN, BHX etc have to rely on ex UK passengers ,which as far as USA is concerned is a long long way off pre pandemic levels. Added to which unless you live within 10 minutes of your local airport the attraction of saving a few quid and flying from say LGW is quite an incentive to your average UK holidaymaker at the moment.
I actually feel ,being a Brummie that MAN has always punched above its weight on US flights in the past and think it will return ,however i think the whole aviation industry has changed at the moment and nothing is certain at all

[BristolexFlyer]

Pretty confident the A321XLR will see action with AA, B6 and UA at Manchester. Philly, JFK and Newark with the possibility of Boston, Chicago and Washington I would have thought? Around the time the market has fully recovered and with the appropriate type for East Coast routes.

BristolexFlyer

[Manair6]

Whilst not announced yet I understand that MAG fully expect that UA will be back for next year and AA is looking likely too back on PHL as per pre covid.

[Rutan16]

United’s statement earlier in the year was VERY specifically worded in that the said not returning in 2022 . Not (not) returning period.

As for American they have also canned Edinburgh for this season ( through) late on.

Delta are operating less than daily to JFK ( fewer seats than Virgin out of Manchester) whilst Boston has been postponed till June and then summer only 4 days a week ( looks to rotate with JFK aircraft)
Manchester JFK/ Atlanta has more capacity for VS/DL through the entire season than Edinburgh !

Reading previous threads are people forgetting Virgin/Delta fly to Atlanta 4 days a week at the moment !

United have commenced Newark and Washington (summer) however Chicago start push back till July and then a short season through September

Then of course Manchester has two Virgin to Orlando a day ( several now on the 350-1000]

Plus those Aer Lingus daily JFK and regular Orlando

Singapore fly onto Houston 5 weekly

Finally TUi to Melbourne

The USA remains pretty well served all being said and Edinburgh capacity is lower than people think

[Link Kilo]

As for American they have also canned Edinburgh for this season ( through) late on.


Delta are operating less than daily to JFK ( fewer seats than Virgin out of Manchester) whilst Boston has been postponed till June and then summer only 4 days a week ( looks to rotate with JFK aircraft)
Manchester JFK/ Atlanta has more capacity for VS/DL through the entire season than Edinburgh !


The USA remains pretty well served all being said and Edinburgh capacity is lower than people think

Maybe, but it's higher than you think: DL JFK is daily from June and BOS is five-weekly from its resumption on 28th May.

What does "for this season ( through) late on" mean?

[Rutan16]

Maybe, but it's higher than you think: DL JFK is daily from June and BOS is five-weekly from its resumption on 28th May.

What does "for this season ( through) late on" mean?

Referring to American they pulled Edinburgh from sale in February after initial indications they would resume in 2022

Delta daily from June and five daily Boston ( summer seasonal) remains lower than Manchester JFK/Atlanta combined .

Not being critical of Edinburgh at all, just adding perspective to this Manchester thread .

Manchester is down on the North Atlantic trade however its almost exclusively down to the demise of TCX and current termination of VS ventures on the West Coast.

As for Boston (and Miami) for what ever reason they just don’t work from Manchester; one to light on both business and VFR traffic ( healthy student traffic makes no money !) and the other well weak to none existent connecting traffic to Latin America it’s prime raison d’ être !´

Americans offerings beyond LHR/MAD/BCN and Rome is absolutely rubbish these days and Ozzie has covered that well enough.

Chicago has effectively been dehubbed going East with just LHR remaining year round!
Philadelphia is not what it was when a US Air base and reciprocal Pharma traffic to support it .
Frankly on wonders what value -AA put on their OWN Brand lift out of Europe in general these days

[Mr A Tis]

A lot of focus is on the security queues, which without question has been dire all too frequently. However, that's not the only issue. Handling agents are still causing major delays, be it TUI check in, baggage claim, or baggage loading, closed food & beverage outlets leaving nowhere to sit. When you add all that to the dated up down up down infrastructure of the terminals - it isn't the best experience. Ozzy calls MAN as average, but I'd say - average at best - on a good day. Fall on a bad day & you probably wouldn't come back.
When I breezed through security in 15 minutes, there was nowhere to sit & then sat on the aircraft for one hour with doors closed, waiting for baggage to be loaded.
We are in a bounce back demand bubble after two years of being locked up. After this summer, combined with the above experiences, the UK will be heading full on into recession & disposable income will rapidly dry up. Personally, I wouldn't hold out any hope of expansion for 2023.
For now I'm avoiding MAN & have reduced air travel considerably. I would like to use MAN/SOU frequently, as the train is so poor & expensive - but MAN in effect has no domestic flight facility- (eg Eastern check in is one hour, Loganair 2 hour, Aurigny 90 minutes) that doesn't fit in with the turn up 3+ hours before your flight & makes domestic air travel completely unviable at MAN in terms of time.

[DomyDom]

A lot of focus is on the security queues, which without question has been dire all too frequently. However, that's not the only issue. Handling agents are still causing major delays, be it TUI check in, baggage claim, or baggage loading, closed food & beverage outlets leaving nowhere to sit. When you add all that to the dated up down up down infrastructure of the terminals - it isn't the best experience. Ozzy calls MAN as average, but I'd say - average at best - on a good day. Fall on a bad day & you probably wouldn't come back.
When I breezed through security in 15 minutes, there was nowhere to sit & then sat on the aircraft for one hour with doors closed, waiting for baggage to be loaded.
We are in a bounce back demand bubble after two years of being locked up. After this summer, combined with the above experiences, the UK will be heading full on into recession & disposable income will rapidly dry up. Personally, I wouldn't hold out any hope of expansion for 2023.
For now I'm avoiding MAN & have reduced air travel considerably. I would like to use MAN/SOU frequently, as the train is so poor & expensive - but MAN in effect has no domestic flight facility- (eg Eastern check in is one hour, Loganair 2 hour, Aurigny 90 minutes) that doesn't fit in with the turn up 3+ hours before your flight & makes domestic air travel completely unviable at MAN in terms of time.
I had a completely different experience of using T1 over the May Bank Holiday. I also breezed through security and found all hospitality and retail open. Yes it was a busy airport on the Friday morning but the 4 of had no problem finding somewhere to sit of have a bite to eat and a drink. Even the toilets were spotlessly clean. I thought MAN was very good actually.

[eye2eye5]

DomyDom, you are wasted here. Boris Johnson could do with your talents as a script writer.

[OzzyOzBorn]

DomyDom, you are wasted here. Boris Johnson could do with your talents as a script writer.

Well that didn't take long. A prime example of what I highlighted earlier. If a contributor dares to venture on here to say that - actually - their experience at MAN was perfectly OK ... well! Along come the usual suspects (often fanboys from the Liverpool Airport forums) to mock and belittle the poster. I reported that in sixteen recent journeys through MAN I only encountered queues of significance on two occasions - 30 minutes and 20 minutes respectively at UK border - really not bad at all. But no, that - and describing MAN as an average airport experience - marks me out as a "tribal defender" of the airport. Though in fairness, I must point out that this comment came from LHR's number one fan; not one of the Liverpool crew. According to him, MAN can only be evaluated against "3rd world competition". This is the cue for the usual Liverpool suspects to appear with - yes - eye2eye5 jumping in with his customary anti-Manchester narrative, asking me at what point the staff were "abrasive" - now, or only before covid (neither!). Then comes the reliable back-up from BACsuperVC10 calling me "so delusional". Only an acknowledgment that MAN is the worst airport in the world ever in every respect will do for these people.

Now, we see this in action again. DomyDom reports a good experience of flying through MAN. And immediately he is ridiculed. The very next post. So predictable. The author: Liverpool forum regular eye2eye5.

Here is how it works. Two posters in particular hunt down any negative stories they can find about MAN. They then post these stories and hype them to the rafters on this and other forums (usernames vary on some). The narrative quickly becomes that MAN is the worst airport in the world ever ... and - guess what - the solution is that everybody should instead travel from LPL which is apparently the canine's genitals. This is reaching absurd levels, and the game is entirely transparent.

MAN isn't perfect ... it is actually very average as airport experiences go. But for 99.9% of passengers it does the job it is designed to do at an affordable price. It is more Aldi than Waitrose, but the majority of it's customers are working to a budget and prioritise value over ostentatious luxury. So those who come on forums like this to report that their experience at MAN was fine should not be abused as "delusional" or "a script writer". This is the behaviour of bullies trying to silence voices they don't want to hear.

Two days ago I posted this:

And remember this: some of those characters who trawl these threads spreading poison about the MAN passenger experience can be found in a cheerleading role on Liverpool Airport forums. Funny that. Maybe they post with an agenda which doesn't include the best interests of an unsuspecting reader on here?

eye2eye5: you owe DomyDom an apology. We see what you're doing, and you're out of order.

[roverman]

I'll open this by declaring myself a critical friend of MAN. Just back from a holiday in France, routing MAN-NCE-MAN with Jet 2. A big call out for Jet 2 - I've used them a number of times and they are simply the best at short-haul leisure focussed travel. I cringe a little at the 'Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls"-type cabin announcements but that is I suppose their typical customer. A fully-integrated airline with in-house ground handling at MAN, lots of staff at every contact point, they really are a beacon in a sometimes grim world of air travel these days. But back to the main topic - MAN. It does seem that most of the recent problems have occured at the early morning outbound peak. Flyers like me and my partner, travelling off peak, have had a good experience. We flew outbound departing at 1300hrs, and apart from the rather bunkerish Security B in T1 the whole process was fine, with an airbridge gate on Pier C. Landing back yesterday at 1830 we parked at a T2 airbridge gate but were bussed in to T1 arrivals (most likely an airline choice to service their split terminal operation). This was fine as the buses were ready waiting (staffed by MAG) and an agent was waiting at the bus drop off to escort us on the short walk to the UK Border. The up escalator wasn't working, though! The UK Border snake was longish but moved quickly - about 10 minutes so that our bags were already on the carousel and we were out at the taxi rank within about 20 minutes of the aircraft being on blocks. Pretty good.

Nice Cote d'Azur airport (NCE) makes a fair comparator for MAN in terms of serving a large provincial city region but with a reversed leisure traffic profile, mainly inbound. The airport overall feels more modern and better-funded than MAN (by the French state rather than local authority/pension fund investors). The airport experience is similar, perhaps slightly better than MAN - there is a sense that the airport has been strategically planned and set out rather than organically grown on a piecemeal basis which is largely how MAN has developed. But then you look at the destinations served and that's where MAN scores very highly over many European provincial city rivals. Beyond Europe, Nice has just two seasonal daily New York flights (MAN has year-round), a single daily Dubai and then just low frequency and seasonal services to Montreal, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait, and former French colonial cities around the shores of the Med. Compare that to MAN's offering, even with the currently depleted North Atlantic scenario.

MAN needs improve and get a better, more consistent passenger experience through the terminals. MAG must push on with the Transformation Programme set out in 2015, replacing the outdated T1 with an expanded and modern T2. T3 needs a masterplan to incorporate it into the later stages of TP. But you have to agree that the city and the region enjoy a global connectivity which is barely matched among European provincial peers, and it does this largely without the involvement of the national flag carrier, which is again unusual.

[HOVIS]

Ozzy.
I have to disagree.
I work at MAN and it is a shocker!

[OzzyOzBorn]

Ozzy.
I have to disagree.
I work at MAN and it is a shocker!

And that’s fine. There is a range of opinions held by posters on here and I defend the right of people to express them. I object only to those who leap on those who disagree with them with a torrent of personal abuse and name-calling. But healthy exchange of views is fine. There is no forum if we all agree on everything.

As you work at MAN, I hope that you will endeavour to help raise standards at the place to meet the higher expectations of travellers, and encourage those around you to do likewise.

[MANFOD]

"eye2eye5: you owe DomyDom an apology. We see what you're doing, and you're out of order".
Quite right Ozzy; I also thought that post was in poor taste, effectively accusing someone of making it up because they dared to post a decent experience at MAN.

It's such a pity when comments of that sort detract from what can be a proper debate on specific issues - for example, the current situation and prospects for MAN's transatlantic market following the demise of TCX and withdrawal of US carriers which SOF and Ozzy have commented on, or the state of the infrastructure in T1 and what is planned as referred to in roverman's excellent post.

Whether EI remain TATL at MAN when Dublin fully recovers is an interesting question and some of the loads quoted so far are not encouraging, but it's early days. Personally, my greater concern is Virgin Atlantic and just how committed they are to MAN. As I recall, for a couple of summers pre-covid, they had 6 based a/c flying to places like LAX, LAS & BOS as well as JFK, MCO, ATL & BGI. They had announced Mumbai & Delhi which with the onset of covid understandably had to be cancelled, and more recently Montego Bay was announced but was never put on sale. LAX was going to be re-introduced this summer but was withdrawn, much to the dismay of a friend who had booked.
I fully appreciate the argument that it was inevitable that VS and other carriers would focus on LHR once the recovery was underway, and the need to safe guard those invaluable LHR slots. With several new routes at LHR, does anyone know if that's been achieved with existing slots or have Virgin acquired additional slots?
Anyway, VS have 4 based a/c at MAN this summer, and by cutting ISB and operating MCO daily with no second flights on certain days have been able to condense next winter into only 3 based looking at current schedules.

As for US carriers, I would have thought the chances of AA returning anytime soon were next to zero, and while UA is the more likely, I'm not as optimistic as some. As Ozzy mentions, let's see if any of those newer entrants take a serious interest in MAN. To what extent DL will influence Virgin's future plans, others will probably have a more informed view.

[Link Kilo]

Jetblue was one of two names mentioned. The other was a US domestic carrier with NEO's on order and Transatlantic ambitions. I read about them in an article interviewing one of their executives several weeks ago ... I'm trying to remember the name of the carrier, but it surprised me that they were interested. The article was linked to a number of forums at the time and reported on social media, so if any reader here can recall the details please do post. Meanwhile, I'll see if I can locate the original interview and get back to you if so.

Could it have been Breeze and their A220s?
https://simpleflying.com/breeze-airways-wants-to-go-transatlantic-with-its-airbus-a220s/

We’re not going to fly to Heathrow, and we won’t fly from New York, Maybe you could see a flight from you know, maybe Burlington, Vermont to a secondary airport in England.

[OzzyOzBorn]

That’s them. Thanks, Link Kilo.

[VLCfkight]

I have no axe to grind here as I no longer live and work in the north west but when I did, I travelled fairly frequently through MAN. I recall posting several years ago about the poor experience in security (and also non-working travellators & escalators) and the usual Manchester ‘supporters” were quick to deny there were problems.

I always rated the Manchester security as one of the worst that I had to pass through, domestically and internationally, and found those manning it frequently rude and officious.

I always got the impression that the airport’s top management were more concerned with returning profits to the shareholders than investing in customer experience of Manchester’s long-suffering travellers.

From reading the recent posts on this thread, it seems nothing has changed and there are still those on this thread who look at the airport through rose-tinted spectacles

[BACsuperVC10]

Thanks to you all for the information...I was expecting carnage..They really are hopeless there ..I've bitten the expensive bullet and switched the outbound to Liverpool and travelling to Malaga instead of Gibraltar and crossing into Spain will be a lot easier there as well...
Liverpool security is apparently normal and they are even offering Fast track, which at £4 a head seems wise, at times like these..
Might even have time for brekkie at Frankie and Benny's..
Either way feeling much more relaxed now..Thanks again to you all

So coming back to you as I said I would. The trip down was fine. Arrived at Liverpool Airport at 8.30 for flight to Jersey. Five of us one with a wheelchair we were all checked in and past security by 9am . Frankie and Bennies is open, so enjoy your breakfast and have a good holiday.
P.S we didn't have fast track, but didn't need it either. Our flight was at 10.50, the morning wave of passengers had gone, but it was still quite busy and flight was full. So depending on the time you are travelling you could perhaps leave Fast Track. I have never found it necessary.

[OzzyOzBorn]

And so the game plays out.

[eye2eye5]

Oddly Ozzy, I think you will find that I’m always constructive with my posts regarding MAN - which are only ever about Security - and that I offer suggestions as to how issues may be addressed and improved. The post made by DomyDom was so out of keeping with any other post that it makes you curious with regards to his post history, which I would describe as being “happyclappy” with regards to MAN. I hope that he did indeed have an exceptional experience, but such posts don’t help the service to improve. I would be delighted to see that MAN security has had a change of culture and that all passengers have a good experience. I have personal experience of that not being so and no, I’m not a difficult passenger to deal with. I come from a company where no poor attitude would be tolerated and it concerns me to see recent posts stating that “you will always get the odd bad apple”. Only if its tolerated. MAN now has a great opportunity to change its culture…..I hope it grasps the opportunity.

[Dorking]

And so the game plays out.
Oh grow up ...you were banned from here under your previous incarnation...I'm amazed they still tolerate you

[VickersVicount]

. Leave Virgin-Delta to develop an unassailable position in the North
Interesting to see W22 Europe changes, AMS getting a winter MCO service. May funnel some MAN pax via AMS. Also EDI going from daily DL JFK down to 5/Wk.

[OzzyOzBorn]

The postings on here from the Liverpool Airport enthusiasts followed exactly the pattern I predicted they would. Why is it a problem to you that I point that out? If what you have written here is correct, you have taken on additional expense and hassle in your travel arrangements to sidestep an hugely exaggerated problem. Maybe I'm not the one you should be angry with? And on the subject of 'growing up', you will never find me on the Liverpool Airport thread posting that their airport experience is terrible and everybody should book from to fly Manchester instead. Now that's what I call childish.

I'm not here claiming that everything at MAN is perfect. Average and forgettable were amongst the terms I used in my accounts. No effusive praise. But I reserve the right to challenge contributors who attack other posters with personal insults just because they post a positive comment about their experience using MAN. And since I have received pleasant and courteous service from MAN security staff on all my recent trips through the airport, I'm also going to defend them against those on here who are on a mission to promote the myth that all security staff at MAN are shouty ogres. It's simply not the case, and misrepresenting them in that way deserves to be called out. I offer no apology for challenging those posts. Those security staff are real people, and they will be aware of what is discussed on here. They deserve fair recognition, not damaging innuendo from those who post with an agenda.

[OzzyOzBorn]

Interesting to see W22 Europe changes, AMS getting a winter MCO service. May funnel some MAN pax via AMS. Also EDI going from daily DL JFK down to 5/Wk.

I don't disagree with you, but that quoted comment from me referred to the pre-covid environment in the aftermath of the Thomas Cook collapse. The world has moved on.

[BACsuperVC10]

The postings on here from the Liverpool Airport enthusiasts followed exactly the pattern I predicted they would. Why is it a problem to you that I point that out? If what you have written here is correct, you have taken on additional expense and hassle in your travel arrangements to sidestep an hugely exaggerated problem. Maybe I'm not the one you should be angry with? And on the subject of 'growing up', you will never find me on the Liverpool Airport thread posting that their airport experience is terrible and everybody should book from to fly Manchester instead. Now that's what I call childish.

I'm not here claiming that everything at MAN is perfect. Average and forgettable were amongst the terms I used in my accounts. No effusive praise. But I reserve the right to challenge contributors who attack other posters with personal insults just because they post a positive comment about their experience using MAN. And since I have received pleasant and courteous service from MAN security staff on all my recent trips through the airport, I'm also going to defend them against those on here who are on a mission to promote the myth that all security staff at MAN are shouty ogres. It's simply not the case, and misrepresenting them in that way deserves to be called out. I offer no apology for challenging those posts. Those security staff are real people, and they will be aware of what is discussed on here. They deserve fair recognition, not damaging innuendo from those who post with an agenda.


Dorking has made a decision after considering information available to him. Im not sure how you can say 'hugely exaggerated 'considering the amount of reports available for anyone to read. I think Dorkings main concern was time required for passing through the airport, disagreeable security staff is something else , which is another matter of concern, but not why he moved his flights.

[eggc]

Flown twice from LPL in the last 18 months. First time my car was pranged in the car park and driver drove off and second time car was broken in to. Needless to say I'll never go there again and trying to save a few quid and shorter queues back fired on me big time. MAN has it's issues at certain times of day with staffing levels etc but I'm back being a there and nowhere else type of guy.

[BACsuperVC10]

Unlucky you. Never happened to me from Liverpool which I use frequently on any UK airport actually.

[DomyDom]

DomyDom, you are wasted here. Boris Johnson could do with your talents as a script writer.
No script written at all just my honest recent experience. Of course it's important that when there are problems they are highlighted so the airport and it's users know where improvements are needed but it's just as important to highlight where things have improved or MAN are getting it right. Otherwise we won't have an accurate understanding of where resources should be prioritised to ensure all users have a better experience. It's also just as important to acknowledge the hard work of those who work at the airport who do their best to give us a geat travel experience.

Great to see some balance, context and interesting discussion about services provided by recent posters by the way, and no apology needed from anyone 🙂👍

[Curious Pax]

Unlucky you. Never happened to me from Liverpool which I use frequently on any UK airport actually.

Somewhat ironic you do exactly the same with reference to Liverpool car parking that you are so critical of when people do it with reference to MAN security!

[BACsuperVC10]

Somewhat ironic you do exactly the same with reference to Liverpool car parking that you are so critical of when people do it with reference to MAN security!

https://www.airport-parking-shop.co.uk/blog/airport-crime-dangerous-airports/

MAN security has been in the news for weeks simple as that. I did say I'd have no problems parking at any UK airport, crime is actually very low. More info on link.

[DomyDom]

Ryanair launch Manchester - Trapani x 2 weekly (Fri & Mon) from 1st July. On sale now 🎸🎶👏 😀👍

[HOVIS]

.

As you work at MAN, I hope that you will endeavour to help raise standards at the place to meet the higher expectations of travellers, and encourage those around you to do likewise.
Would that I could.
Not being in a management position at any of the handling agents or airport ops limits my ability to do anything.

[WHBM]

Flown twice from LPL in the last 18 months. First time my car was pranged in the car park and driver drove off and second time car was broken in to..
I regret to say Liverpool has this reputation. Some time ago the airport security team Land-Rover on patrol was stolen at knifepoint ...

I do find the lack of concern for security at airport car parks dismaying. I once did a day return from Stansted, on the outward noticing a car broken into in the short stay car park, on the return seeing it was still in that condition with the broken glass all around. A subsequent comment to a security manager encountered there got the comment that their security was measured by the CAA on nail scissors etc detected at the scanner. The car park was "nuffin' to do with us ...".

[eye2eye5]

I did promise feedback on my daughter’s departure on VS73 today.

- arrived at T2 at 7 am.
- time taken from start of queue at check in to through Security 2 hours.
- no reported issues at Security.
- wi fi coverage very poor, unable to communicate for some time.

A significant improvement on her last experience with Security. Well done.

[VickersVicount]

doesn't sound much better!

[VickersVicount]

AC going to 788 (from A330) for S23 YYZ