Edinburgh-3

[habs_fan]

I believe this is an increase to 4 flights a week.

Air Canada used to fly St Johns to LHR In A320 before.

I suppose telling comfort factors will be in the seat pitch, not the size of the aircraft.

Great to see Turkish Airlines Istanbul upgraded to A321 a couple of times a week, others on B737


AC has been 4x weekly from EDI for the last few years

[edinv]

With AC ' vouchers $$$$ ' in hand for future travel, (hopefully from EDI!) there is an element of self interest here!

Having travelled and spoken to FAs who operated this service with ACr in the 2019 season, they worked for the most part YYZ/EDI & GLA together. e.g. An EDI arrival on a Monday would see the FAs on a GLA/YYZ the following day. Perhaps further changes to come with regard to YYZ/GLA?

As others have stated, I see a mainline A330 has been substituted on most of these former ACr routes into mainland Europe as well as the YYZ/MAN service. AC must anticipate that they will be able to sell their Business Class 'Signature' brand on these flights or alternatively for the mainland Europe routes into YYZ/YUL, does the MAX lack the range for a westbound TA flight? - Perhaps a combination of both?

The AC YYZ/EDI route is sold as Economy & Premium Economy as it was with ACr. For info, the AC YHZ/LHR, to be reinstated with the MAX, is also showing bookable in Economy & Premium Economy.

[Donkey497]

So, if by some miracle we get resumption of Ac flights before they were due to stop anyway [Mid-Sept?], do we still get a 767?

I assume the GLA 767 retention will last if / until such time as the AT takeover is finalised and the A330 is dropped.

[Sk1schoolsam]

So, if by some miracle we get resumption of Ac flights before they were due to stop anyway [Mid-Sept?], do we still get a 767?

I assume the GLA 767 retention will last if / until such time as the AT takeover is finalised and the A330 is dropped.

I am sure it was already reported that both EDI and GLA were shelved for this season.

[Rutan16]

So, if by some miracle we get resumption of Ac flights before they were due to stop anyway [Mid-Sept?], do we still get a 767?

I assume the GLA 767 retention will last if / until such time as the AT takeover is finalised and the A330 is dropped.
All rouge 763s are resting . Indeed the brand may be no more.

[Porrohman]

All rouge 763s are resting . Indeed the brand may be no more.
The premium cabin in Rouge B763s was a very substandard, dated, shabby offering, especially compared to premium economy in AC B789 and A333. It'll be interesting to see what options the mainline B38M offers.

[habs_fan]

The premium cabin in Rouge B763s was a very substandard, dated, shabby offering, especially compared to premium economy in AC B789 and A333. It'll be interesting to see what options the mainline B38M offers.

premium cabin on the MAX. Big change will be having built in IFE and not just steaming
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1920x1440/07bd7500_813f_4bab_9d43_1ba99974602d_6138e665a10d4f4bbc2fdab e1e5d4e7eccf35c89.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x750/89af6726_3aa0_4061_ab1c_0587aafa72bf_2021977b8e4a0ac9f922952 36efa8eedbc936aef.jpeg

[CabinCrewe]

Looks quite nice. Probably easier to fill a smaller premium cabin, though mainline prices vs Rouge will put some off I suspect.

[Porrohman]

Looks quite nice. Probably easier to fill a smaller premium cabin, though mainline prices vs Rouge will put some off I suspect.
Air Canada classes these as business class seats but they look more like premium economy to me. It'll be interesting to see what the fares are like.

[tictack67]

Air Canada classes these as business class seats but they look more like premium economy to me. It'll be interesting to see what the fares are like.

Fares are now online.

That's because they are premium economy. The Flight is only sold as Economy and Premium economy.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Norwegian have cancelled their EDI flights for the month of August from EDI (CPH and Oslo). Anyone know why?

[GrahamK]

Norwegian have cancelled their EDI flights for the month of August from EDI (CPH and Oslo). Anyone know why?

No demand would be my guess. Think SAS are still flying to OSL and EZY/FR to CPH?

[habs_fan]

Norwegian have cancelled their EDI flights for the month of August from EDI (CPH and Oslo). Anyone know why?

most likely due to low booked figures on the flights

[inOban]

Not just Norwegian. Hasn't been a Qatar flight for over a week.

[CabinCrewe]

Hasn't been a Qatar flight for over a week.
Some of their outbound flights had barely double digits (and only slightly higher on inbound). Presumably the larger cargo loads weren’t even worth it (though less on 787 cw A350).

[Sk1schoolsam]

Not just Norwegian. Hasn't been a Qatar flight for over a week.

Is this only happening at Edinburgh or are Qatar and others cancelling flights to other uk airports due to low demand?

[Plane mad 134]

Is this only happening at Edinburgh or are Qatar and others cancelling flights to other uk airports due to low demand?

Qatar have outright cancelled all CWL and BHX flights until October. And are running reduced frequencies at other airports. They are due to restart 3x weekly B787-8 flights from EDI on Wednesday which will increase to 4x weekly from September.

Now what really gets me is EK plan to fly a daily B777-300ER from September 1st. Only LHR and MAN will have more Emirates flights per week. With BHX 5x weekly B777 and GLA 4x weekly. With LGW/STN/NCL cancelled until October. I would hazard a guess that Emirates may want people from NCL and GLA (on the days they won't operate) to drive to EDI and fly. This may all change of course.

[Link Kilo]

Now what really gets me is EK plan to fly a daily B777-300ER from September 1st. Only LHR and MAN will have more Emirates flights per week. With BHX 5x weekly B777 and GLA 4x weekly. With LGW/STN/NCL cancelled until October. I would hazard a guess that Emirates may want people from NCL and GLA (on the days they won't operate) to drive to EDI and fly. This may all change of course.

It has indeed changed - EK now not restarting EDI until 1st October (at the time of writing).

[tictack67]

Now what really gets me is EK plan to fly a daily B777-300ER from September 1st. GLA 4x weekly. With LGW/STN/NCL cancelled until October. I would hazard a guess that Emirates may want people from NCL and GLA (on the days they won't operate) to drive to EDI and fly.

Why does this get you upset?

Edinburgh users had to travel to Glasgow for years to use services.

Best thing that happened, break up of BAA monopoly.

[Plane mad 134]

Why does this get you upset?

Edinburgh users had to travel to Glasgow for years to use services.
Best think that happened break up of BAA monolpy.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest, I just was a bit surprised to see them offer EDI daily in September when Qatar are only 4x weekly on a B787-8. As said above though Emirates have now changed to October 1st.

[tictack67]

Odd that EDI only route to go down from widebody 763 to 738. Maybe the only destination within range. DY did it no bother. Suppose if having to be transferred to Mainline, even though a small narrowbody, it should have a variation of AC business class which might be a plus if any of the usual leisure pax fancy it.

Not that odd actually, Air Canada in the last few weeks filed aircraft changes for Montreal – Dublin service during summer 2021 season, which sees the airline schedules Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft service, instead of Boeing 787-8.

Routes seem to be amended bit by bit so maybe more aircraft downgrades

[Sk1schoolsam]

Not a surprise, but I see Delta have pushed back their restart to 1st October and United are now 25th October. Beginning to think it might a bigger surprise if they even make those dates.

[scotsunflyer]

Emirates now showing October for 1st flight from Edi

[goldeneye]

EI have considerably reduced flights to Dublin in Sept & early October - one flight per day in most instances.

[inOban]

I wonder how many were on today's Qatar flight?

[habs_fan]

I wonder how many were on today's Qatar flight?


41 pax were booked on it

[inOban]

Thanks. No wonder they've been culling flights.

[GoEDI]

Inbound was into triple figures...? Although not exactly great either.

Not sure how much cargo they're carrying just now.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Inbound was into triple figures...? Although not exactly great either.

Not sure how much cargo they're carrying just now.

Cargo would make the difference. I flew out of Tokyo on a beautiful Airbus 351 with only 8 passengers but it still ran daily as the were filling the belly with cargo so made the flight economical with or without passengers. I don’t know how much we import/export through Qatar but perhaps there is enough to sustain a few flights per week even with very soft passenger numbers.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Great to see Turkish Airlines Istanbul upgraded to A321 a couple of times a week, others on B737

But frequency cut to only 3 per week now...,😞

[tictack67]

But frequency cut to only 3 per week now...,😞

Yes, I suppose August is the anonomly the for Edinburgh, where likely huge groups bookings cancelled coming to Edinburgh for the Fringe, international, book TV and festivals and the tattoo all being cancelled.

Winter timetable showing daily flight with A321 on morning flight and B737-900 on evening flight with the occasional A320.

It's all up in the air of course and a worrying time for all airports in the UK, but good to see some confidence from airlines. Considering BA A have moved entire LGW shorthaul back to 7th Novemberr

[inOban]

Airlines have been posting schedules on the basis of anticipated demand. As flight time approaches it becomes clear that actual demand on longhaul routes is far less.

[CabinCrewe]

Cargo would make the difference. I flew out of Tokyo on a beautiful Airbus 351 with only 8 passengers but it still ran daily as the were filling the belly with cargo so made the flight economical.
How do you know it was economical and not running at a loss?

[ATNotts]

How do you know it was economical and not running at a loss?

The pandemic has resulted in cargo rates going through the roof; I know that because Mrs ATN works for a global logistics business (not an integrator) and finding space has been an issue, and contract rates gone out of the window. Cargo is normally the icing on the cake on a passenger operation, but in these unusual times it may well have made the difference between profit and thumping great loss when long haul passenger traffic has largely evaporated.

[Sk1schoolsam]

How do you know it was economical and not running at a loss?

Long chat with board cabin crew who were telling me about the full loads of cargo each night but few passengers.

[Ross Nicol]

Courtesy of Airlineroute:

Air Canada Rouge replacement.
Toronto – Edinburgh eff 04JUN21 737 MAX 8 replacing rouge 767, 4 weekly.


Just checked Skyscanner, it will be under a new callsign of AC807, Departing at the same time as the 763 would have.

[The Hypnoboon]

It's being reported that EDI is to cut 250 jobs due to the downturn in traffic caused by Covid-19.
​​​​​
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-53609665

[willy wombat]

Re AC807. I might be wrong but from my spotting days in the 1960s and early 70s I’m sure AC used to use the 80* series for the Prestwick Canada flights - AC 803 and 805 seem very familiar.

[edinv]

Re AC807. I might be wrong but from my spotting days in the 1960s and early 70s I’m sure AC used to use the 80* series for the Prestwick Canada flights - AC 803 and 805 seem very familiar.

AC 813 CPH/PIK - YYZ on my first AC trip May 74. AC823 the regular number on LHR/PIK - YQX/YHZ into the 70s. Also remember a trip on AC852 YVR/YEG - PIK/LHR in Jun 78, op by 747.

To bring things back to the EDI thread, until around 1977 EDI Pax could travel via PIK connecting on to AC flights, as well as BAs own schedules by use of the BOAC/BA 'feeder' Viscount service.

[ATNotts]

Long chat with board cabin crew who were telling me about the full loads of cargo each night but few passengers.
Full loads may not equte to profit, but may well trim losses.

I doubt there are many passenger airlines turning a profit currently.

[CabinCrewe]

and the ever reliable galley tales from cabin crew!

[inOban]

Apologies if already posted, but airline route is saying that Delta won't be back until April 29th next year.

[inOban]

Apologies if already posted, but airline route is saying that Delta won't be back until April 29th next year.

[CabinCrewe]

Bang goes the promise of 763’s this year then too, which seemed a longshot to start with. Can’t imagine anyone is especially surprised.
Will be interesting to see arrangements for end of April 2021 which is a surprise for a return date.

[martin102]

Delta 763 inbound from Detroit this morning arriving around 10am. No idea why!

[McTeir396]

golf charter

[Sk1schoolsam]

Have Vueling and Iberia Express dropped EDI completely now?

What other airlines / routes do you think won’t return short term?

[tictack67]

Have Vueling and Iberia Express dropped EDI completely now?

What other airlines / routes do you think won’t return short term?

To be fair I don't think theynhave "dropped" EDI

Going forward I can see airlines not putting out traditional Oct & Apr timetables.

All schedules can be taken with a pinch of salt, and routes suspended for a couple of months.

Thankfully EDI still has good number of flights, Glasgow Departures looking sad at the moment with little choice

[Sk1schoolsam]

Qatar flights cancelled today and tomorrow, assume the loads are just not there?

Cant see EK starting in October daily if until more long haul destinations restrictions get lifted by the UK /Scottish govs or at the destination itself. IMO

Looking at the departure board over the past few days seams there are very few destinations from EDI with intact air bridges.

[Plane mad 134]

Bang goes the promise of 763’s this year then too, which seemed a longshot to start with. Can’t imagine anyone is especially surprised.
Will be interesting to see arrangements for end of April 2021 which is a surprise for a return date.
According to routesonline EDI-BOS will be cut and EDI-JFK will be Upgauged from a daily B757 to a daily B767-300ER . Good news to see JFK getting made a B767 permanently. All subject to change of course.

[wub]

Qatar flights cancelled today and tomorrow, assume the loads are just not there?

I’m booked to fly EDI to Singapore in November (don’t think I’ll be going) but despite already having a booking, I get almost daily emails from Qatar urging me to book that route, because flights are filling up fast. I feel they just want to get as much cash as possible, before cancelling the flights and then offering vouchers.

[GrahamK]

According to routesonline EDI-BOS will be cut and EDI-JFK will be Upgauged from a daily B757 to a daily B767-300ER . Good news to see JFK getting made a B767 permanently. All subject to change of course.
GLA-JFK also cut, so DL feel consolidation is best it appears

[habs_fan]

Emirates now showing October for 1st flight from Edi

now showing being pushed back to 1st of December

[Sk1schoolsam]

now showing being pushed back to 1st of December

Unfortunately not surprising. Qatar barely maintains 3 per week at present. Is GLA pushed back as week or is the focus on maintaining that route?

The fact you need to go through the process of getting a preflight COVId19 teat to fly through Dubai doesn’t help. And to be honest there is not many destinations you can currently fly too who don’t have their own in bound restrictions. Will put off most holidaymakers for a while.....

[GrahamK]

GLA has been operating 4 x weekly for a month or so now. Makes sense trying to build up your stronger routes first

[tictack67]

Wonder if it's more EK retreating with competition at EDI from Turkish & Qatar for connections. So best to stay where they don't face much competition.

[CabinCrewe]

Have the QR loads picked up any?

[habs_fan]

Have the QR loads picked up any?


don’t think so believe only 49 were booked on today’s flight

[A350Saltire]

don’t think so believe only 49 were booked on today’s flight

As a matter of interest what are EK’s loads like on GLA to DXB?

[Plane mad 134]

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-may-move-transatlantic-services-from-shannon-to-the-uk-1.4342317?mode=amp&__twitter_impression=true

In an Irish newspaper that EDI and MAN are among the airports aiming to have EI base their A321LR at.

[SWBKCB]

Assumes the Americans will be happy with an EU airline operating UK-USA. Has there been any aviation agreements finalised?

[Porrohman]

Assumes the Americans will be happy with an EU airline operating UK-USA. Has there been any aviation agreements finalised?
Aer Lingus operates from Belfast City to Edinburgh, LHR and Exeter so there must either be some pre-existing agreement that allows them to operate from the UK post Brexit or they perhaps intend to establish a UK subsidiary? IAG's UK subsidiary is, of course, "London" Airways but perhaps union agreements / tax rules / other factors favour establishment of an Aer Lingus subsidiary in the UK to operate any routes from outside London?

Unless there's another explanation?

[CabinCrewe]

operating via Stobart franchise out of BFS and not necessarily based EU aircraft, will be different to a mainline based EU EI aircraft in the UK operating to US i would imagine.

[Plane mad 134]

BA and BA CityFlyer have updated their schedule for October now.

BA CityFlyer - Currently 6x weekly (No Sat flight).

Due to go 10x weekly from 21st of September (2x flights on Mon-Thu and 1x on Fri and Sun).

Then goes 15x weekly from the 5th of October with one of the night stoppers returning between Monday and Thursday. (3x flights Mon-Thu, 2x on Fri and 1x on Sun).

Schedule hasn't been updated for the winter season.


BA - Flights are currently operating 18x weekly (3x flights on Mon/Thu/Fri/Sun, 2x on Tue/Wed/Sat).

This will increase to 31x weekly from the 1st of October (5x flights on Mon/Thu/Fri/Sun, 4x flights on Tue and Wed and 3x flights on a Sat).

Schedule hasn't been updated for the end of October, but the flights are due to go 6x daily from the 25th of October. Further changes likely.

[CabinCrewe]

31 weekly in October seems very ambitious based on current loads.
’Further changes likely’ is most definitely true.

[Albert Hall]

Domestics are busy and much of it is international transfer traffic. If you are going long haul then transferring through LHR adds little or no risk to your journey versus AMS or CDG or many other intermediate points where added self isolation rules might apply based on your transit point alone.

[CabinCrewe]

I doubt the discussed BACF flights are full of international transfer traffic...

[A350Saltire]

I doubt the discussed BACF flights are full of international transfer traffic...

Except 31x weekly is BA to LHR as stated. BACF are planning for a much lower frequency.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Appears that EK now cancelled until April 21, certainly going by the booking app, expect it to show soon on Airline routes. Another blow to the limping airport.

[tictack67]

Appears that EK now cancelled until April 21, certainly going by the booking app, expect it to show soon on Airline routes. Another blow to the limping airport.

Not just Edinburgh that is suffering the hit mate, not sure of your motivation for describing it as "limping".

LGW lost their entire BA short haul network, Glasgow lost all direct USA flights. At least Turkish are still going and Qatar. Brother flew back to Tokyo with Finnair from Edinburgh via Helsinki which was on an A321. so still good connections.

Probably wise of EK to consolidate, might struggle to fill A380 in winter from Scotland

[willy wombat]

I get the impression that EDI is doing better than many.

[helipixman]

I am wondering are there many planes stored at Edinburgh during the pandemic or have they out priced themselves ? The reason I ask, I have just flown in and out of Glasgow and yesterday there were at least 17 British Airways Airbus aircraft tightly parked around the airport. Glasgow making some money and utilising parts of the airport ! Are Edinburgh doing the same ?

[GAXLN]

I am wondering are there many planes stored at Edinburgh during the pandemic or have they out priced themselves ? The reason I ask, I have just flown in and out of Glasgow and yesterday there were at least 17 British Airways Airbus aircraft tightly parked around the airport. Glasgow making some money and utilising parts of the airport ! Are Edinburgh doing the same ?

Glasgow has the significant advantage of BA Maintenance facilities so their local engineers can ensure the Airbuses are maintained in tip top condition whilst stored.

[SWBKCB]

I am wondering are there many planes stored at Edinburgh during the pandemic or have they out priced themselves ?

Does EDI have much space for storage - until recently exec a/c had to position out rather than ONS. GAXLN has got it right on GLA. Not every decision comes down to price.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I am wondering are there many planes stored at Edinburgh during the pandemic or have they out priced themselves ? The reason I ask, I have just flown in and out of Glasgow and yesterday there were at least 17 British Airways Airbus aircraft tightly parked around the airport. Glasgow making some money and utilising parts of the airport ! Are Edinburgh doing the same ?
BA are using Glasgow as it's the home of A320 maintenance, likewise Cardiff had 15 B747-400s in care of the engineers there.

[Porrohman]

The only aircraft currently stored at EDI is a Norwegian B737max and that's not out of choice.

Jet2 have four based B738s and usually operate less than one return flight per day per aircraft. By basing four aircraft it means that each can fly several times per week which saves the costs of maintenance that would be necessary if some of these airframes were put into storage.

easyJet and Ryanair both have eight based aircraft and Loganair has three. They also have lots of slack in their schedules but this arrangement keeps all these aicraft airworthy and gives plenty of cover for delays and any aircraft that goes unserviceable.

I reckon there are about ten more aircraft based at EDI than are needed to operate all of the currently scheduled flights but none are in storage because they all fly regularly, albeit at much lower utilisation rates than they did pre-COVID-19.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Not just Edinburgh that is suffering the hit mate, not sure of your motivation for describing it as "limping".

LGW lost their entire BA short haul network, Glasgow lost all direct USA flights. At least Turkish are still going and Qatar. Brother flew back to Tokyo with Finnair from Edinburgh via Helsinki which was on an A321. so still good connections.

Probably wise of EK to consolidate, might struggle to fill A380 in winter from Scotland

No motivation behind the comment except for expression of disparity at how the airline industry and EDI airport has been devastated by the COVID fallout and appalling Government policies.

Hopefully the frequencies will start to pick up later in the year but I see that Turkish and Qatar are reducing their frequencies over the next 2 months. Don’t think EDI will get any US flights till next spring earliest.

Japan via Helsinki is my favourite route to/ from Tokyo but not knowing which country will be added to the list next it was safer to book the connect through London this time round with BA, and cheaper.

[Rutan16]

In the last few weeks Tui UK finally repatriated the Tenerife Max into Birmingham so I am surprised the Norwegian remains at Edinburgh right now .

[wub]

My Qatar flights to Singapore and back in November have, unsurprisingly, been cancelled.

[Porrohman]

In the last few weeks Tui UK finally repatriated the Tenerife Max into Birmingham so I am surprised the Norwegian remains at Edinburgh right now .
The Norwegian Max is getting regular maintenance at EDI. Each time it's powered up, it reports a destination of Vladivostok to FR24. Obviously, it's not going there. Presumably engineers have just selected a random destination while they run their regular checks;
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ei-fye

There are ways to ferry the 737max with flaps extended, at lower speed and altitude, with specially trained crew and other safety measures but I doubt that Norwegian would want to go to that expense with no firm date for re-entry into service. The maintenance and parking fees are presumably being paid by Boeing.

[Plane mad 134]

Looking at the Delta booking engine, it seems EDI-BOS is back on sale for S21 from the 27th of May. Will be 4x weekly B767-300ER. Good news if it doesn't change.

[VickersVicount]

interesting to see the DL 767’s getting withdrawn starting next year with not much currently to replace transatlantic 757/767s. Presumably the ‘thinner’ seasonals may lose out.

Even with a daily to 4/wk service reduction, lets hope it goes ahead in some format. Suspect they’d concentrate on keeping JFK viable in the first instance.

[Plane mad 134]

BA increase LHR to 31x weekly tommorow and Cityflyer to LCY still due to go 15x weekly from Monday.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Looks like SAS have cut routes to EDI until further notice.
Are there many options to fly to Scandinavia any longer?

[Porrohman]

Looks like SAS have cut routes to EDI until further notice.
Are there many options to fly to Scandinavia any longer?
Norwegian to Oslo , Ryanair and easyJet to Copenhagen and Finnair to Helsinki all operate sporadically during the next 7 days AFAIK. No doubt, these will be subject to any changes to travel rules...

[CabinCrewe]

Seems EK will not be back at EDI. NCL must be on a shaky leg too. Very difficult times.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Seems EK will not be back at EDI. NCL must be on a shaky leg too. Very difficult times.

Is that a permanent cancellation now? I thought it was only till April?

[inOban]

Routes online is listing its cancellation for s21 today, among other changes. Glasgow once daily A380.

[tictack67]

Routes online is listing its cancellation for s21 today, among other changes. Glasgow once daily A380.

They must have taken quite a hit with bookings. Most airlines only preliminary cancelling to Summer '21

Lufthansa also announce withdrawal of Munich to Edinburgh and Newcastle for the winter and Frankfurt to Glasgow for the winter

[willy wombat]

It’s hardly surprising, is it?

[ATNotts]

They must have taken quite a hit with bookings. Most airlines only preliminary cancelling to Summer '21

Lufthansa also announce withdrawal of Munich to Edinburgh and Newcastle for the winter and Frankfurt to Glasgow for the winter

Given that the German Robert Koch Institute have placed Scotland and Northeast England on the quarantine list I don't think that's the least bit surprising, the routes are probably quite leisure dependent so will be hit hard.

[inOban]

I would have thought that it was more to do with the collapse of longhaul market. Aren't EZY are still flying the route for the leisure business?

[tictack67]

easyJet appeared to have cancelled Munich for October, with 2 per week from November..at the moment.

What I am surprised at is the amount of commentators who seem to think these route cancellations are peculiar to Edinburgh only.

[inOban]

I see on routes online that United have cancelled Newark until 27th March, and even that is provisional. Again, not surprising.

[Asturias56]

If a vaccine turns up they can add them at short notice

[ATNotts]

If a vaccine turns up they can add them at short notice

If, if we're being optimistic, when a vaccine turns up the first in the queue to get it will be the usual suspects in the NHS and other critical areas of the public service. The rest of the population (those who earn money and donate corporate taxation to the national exchequers) will be way down the pecking order. That's not to belittle the NHS and public service by the way.

So there will be no justification to raise quarantine or travel restriction for probably 6 months after a vaccine starts being rolled out. On that basis it would seem vanishingly unlikely that any routes suspended until Summer 2021 would come back earlier.

[tictack67]

Turkish have updated Winter'20 and Summer '21 schedule

Winter'20
Three weekly on A321 (Days 1,4,6)
Summer '21
Daily flight on A321 (alternating AM/PM departure)

[tictack67]

interesting to see the DL 767’s getting withdrawn starting next year with not much currently to replace transatlantic 757/767s. Presumably the ‘thinner’ seasonals may lose out.

Even with a daily to 4/wk service reduction, lets hope it goes ahead in some format. Suspect they’d concentrate on keeping JFK viable in the first instance.

Actually only some the older DL B757/B767 are being withdrawn.

In fact Delta is to retire its entire fleet of B777 by the end of this year.

Confirmed again today JFK to be daily B767 next summer and Boston 4 weekly B767 from May'21

Yes we all know and understand subject to change blah blah

[inOban]

Am I right that Wizz will be operating just one weekly service this winter,to Bucharest? I guess the seasonal agricultural workers have returned home.

[tictack67]

Am I right that Wizz will be operating just one weekly service this winter,to Bucharest? I guess the seasonal agricultural workers have returned home.
​​​​​​
Yes sadly correct. Dire time for Scotland's airports

[Plane mad 134]

Tui have loaded up W21/22 from Edinburgh.

Schedule as follows:

- 2x weekly TFS
- 1x weekly ACE
- 2x weekly KTT (December only) (new)
- 2x weekly KEF (February only) (new)

[ROC10]

Tui have loaded up W21/22 from Edinburgh.

Schedule as follows:

- 2x weekly TFS
- 1x weekly ACE
- 2x weekly KTT (December only) (new)
- 2x weekly KEF (February only) (new)

TFS (x2) and ACE (x1) will operate throughout the entire winter season as normal.

PFO will operate for one week in November, before returning in late March, along with LCA and PMI.

As of yet, I have no idea on ski routes, but given that one of the KEF flights in February is on Sundays, it doesn’t look like there will be much on that front, at least on Sundays, unless they intend to utilise a second aircraft.

SSH appears to be dropped, which is, of course, no great surprise.

I am surprised by the 2x weekly KTT and KEF, although they are only for one month each so I wouldn’t be too surprised to see those dropped, but we can keep our fingers crossed.

KEF is particularly surprising as it is only due to operate from LGW and MAN in Dec/Jan/Feb, with EDI and BRS operating in Feb. It looks like they may be focusing on geographical coverage and/or busier airports rather than their more typical approach of adding routes by base size (i.e. BHX/DSA/EMA/NCL don’t have any TUI flights (yet) to KEF).

There has always been a one-off ‘Santa flight’ (these never show in flight timetables) to KTT on a Saturday in December, going out in the morning and coming back late at night to accommodate the day trip to Lapland. I suspect this may continue, but these new flights are not ‘Santa’ flights. Instead they will operate straight back to EDI and, presumably, are there to accommodate short breaks (flights operate Mon/Thurs), as well as perhaps one-week breaks, etc. This is also a nice surprise as these flights are only available from a handful of bases, also exclusively in December.

Ultimately, this is still a long way off and changes are almost guaranteed. Nevertheless, whilst it’s certainly not a great offering of ‘sun routes’ across the whole season, there are a couple of nice extras in there that EDI doesn’t normally see from TUI. There also appears to be some space on Saturdays for a couple of ski routes as per normal.

[helipixman]

Not really sure what and why this is being allowed to happen, when the Central belt of Scotland is currently having restrictions imposed ! We are not allowed to visit our own families, pubs and some restaurants are closed etc etc. We are also told not to travel outside our local NHS area, so how is this happening or being allowed to happen ? Or are we just importing and exporting COVID

I am told not to visit family or travel outside my own area, but I guess I could book a flight as per those below ?

Today
Edi - Frankfurt (Lufthansa)
Edi - Paphos (Jet2)
Edi - Amsterdam (KLM)
Edi - Lanarca (Jet2)
Dublin - Edi (Stobart)
Edi - Rhodes (Jet2)
Rome -Edi (Ryanair)
Edi - Paphos (Easyjet)
Edi - Copenhagen (Ryanair)
Edi - Tenerife (Easyjet)
Edi - Bodrum (Easyjet)
Charles De Gaulle - Edi (Hop)
Edi - Faro (Ryanair)
Amsterdam - Edi (KLM)
Edi - Belfast (Easyjet)

[mike current]

Not really sure what and why this is being allowed to happen, when the Central belt of Scotland is currently having restrictions imposed ! We are not allowed to visit our own families, pubs and some restaurants are closed etc etc. We are also told not to travel outside our local NHS area, so how is this happening or being allowed to happen ? Or are we just importing and exporting COVID


Because if the government forced aviation to shutdown, then they would be responsible for it and would have to help supporting it.
This way they keep it "open", although it's de facto shutdown. But at least there's no formal obligation to keep the industry alive.
The current figures make no financial sense for airlines and airports. They'd be better off closed. They're only keeping things running to maintain a presence and to be in some sort of readiness for when things pick up again.

Yesterday in the top 3 UK airports for aircraft movements were Stansted and East Mids. 2 major cargo hubs. Exactly what happened back in April and May. We may be not in an official lockdown, but effectively we are!

[ScottishAviator]

Not really sure what and why this is being allowed to happen, when the Central belt of Scotland is currently having restrictions imposed ! We are not allowed to visit our own families, pubs and some restaurants are closed etc etc. We are also told not to travel outside our local NHS area, so how is this happening or being allowed to happen ? Or are we just importing and exporting COVID

I am told not to visit family or travel outside my own area, but I guess I could book a flight as per those below ?

Today
Edi - Frankfurt (Lufthansa)
Edi - Paphos (Jet2)
Edi - Amsterdam (KLM)
Edi - Lanarca (Jet2)
Dublin - Edi (Stobart)
Edi - Rhodes (Jet2)
Rome -Edi (Ryanair)
Edi - Paphos (Easyjet)
Edi - Copenhagen (Ryanair)
Edi - Tenerife (Easyjet)
Edi - Bodrum (Easyjet)
Charles De Gaulle - Edi (Hop)
Edi - Faro (Ryanair)
Amsterdam - Edi (KLM)
Edi - Belfast (Easyjet)

The majority are 14 day self isolation on return to Scotland

[helipixman]

The majority are 14 day self isolation on return to Scotland
Yes but do they actually stcik to the quarantine rules ?

An I though Eire was back in a severe lockdown with travel restrictions and heavy fines ?

Dublin to Edinburgh ???

[Sk1schoolsam]

The majority are 14 day self isolation on return to Scotland

Some of us still need to travel internationally for work purposes (the world has not stopped and Asia is up and running) so accessing flight to go East via hubs is vital. It’s not all about local Euro holidays.

Saying that I know people that are happy to fly to several afore mentioned destinations for some sun and warmth right now and take the two week hit when they return. They are all working from home anyhow so the 14day quarantine (which is stupid and could be easily reduced with testing like other more savi countries are doing) really makes no difference.

it seams some people think travelling out with the UK makes you more venerable to COVID 19 when I would argue May places it’s the opposite. Controversial...don’t care... we need to move on like other parts of the world have realised.

[inOban]

And when they move on, their number of cases rockets until their health and care services get overloaded.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Some of us still need to travel internationally for work purposes (the world has not stopped and Asia is up and running) so accessing flight to go East via hubs is vital. It’s not all about local Euro holidays.
Very few people need to travel internationally for work purposes, very few indeed. All non essential business travel is now not being signed off.
Asia is not "up and running". That's palpably false. Large parts of China are domestically open but subject to immediate major lockdown of whole cities with no warning as cases arise. They are taking a very different approach to the UK but with no reliable vaccine yet, it's whackamole time. This is the first pandemic that we have tried to deal with by locking down on a global level (mainly). There's only two routes back to our old lives :
1. A vaccine which is what our govts are 100% relying on as they dare not contemplate a Plan B (see below)
2. Let it run through and shield the elderly as the fit build up herd immunity. Worth a read https://gbdeclaration.org/

With no sign of 1. there's no way back to school exams, no proms, no university experience, no BAU cancer care, no return to mass international travel. EVERYTHING is being gambled on this miracle vaccine. Australia has had a very tough winter, especially Victoria, the UK will see worse in terms of challenges by virtue of the Northern Winter being harsher with more people being forced indoors. And the money's running out.....

Yesterday in the top 3 UK airports for aircraft movements were Stansted and East Mids. 2 major cargo hubs. Exactly what happened back in April and May. We may be not in an official lockdown, but effectively we are!
This is exactly it. We have rain, snow and darkness to come, it's nonsense to think they'll be doing anything but tightening things up and introducing harsher lockdowns. Chief Mammy is already signaling we'ans will be enjoying a digital Christmas this year. With the current strategy, this will be repeating each year until a vaccine but public patience may well not survive a full winter of this. We shall see.

[SWBKCB]

Herd immunity - these guys disagree

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02948-4#ref-CR3

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32153-X/fulltext

[helipixman]

Some of us still need to travel internationally for work purposes (the world has not stopped and Asia is up and running) so accessing flight to go East via hubs is vital. It’s not all about local Euro holidays.

Saying that I know people that are happy to fly to several afore mentioned destinations for some sun and warmth right now and take the two week hit when they return. They are all working from home anyhow so the 14day quarantine (which is stupid and could be easily reduced with testing like other more savi countries are doing) really makes no difference.

it seams some people think travelling out with the UK makes you more venerable to COVID 19 when I would argue May places it’s the opposite. Controversial...don’t care... we need to move on like other parts of the world have realised.

Sadly it's people who obviously clearly state that they do not care could be the ones causing problems. It's not until you lose a member of your family, then you will maybe start caring. Is International travel for business really necessary, no it can be done over the internet, Lives are far more important. You seem to think all the people who return do Quarantine ! Thats crap because people admit to not doing it, becasue as they say I wont get caught. The rules are there for a reason wether we like them or not.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The rules are there for a reason wether we like them or not.
That "reason" was to give the NHS three weeks of breathing space. The reason now is to save lives where the average age of COVID deaths is 82 and life expectancy is only 81. The rules are grossly disproportionate to the quantifiable risk. This is the Madness of Crowds, a hysterical over-reaction with no proper exit strategy.

Ireland are locking down hard, Wales just announced shopping for "non essential items" is to be illegal until otherwise stated. It's a group insanity driven by politicians well out of their depth. The reality may only hit home if and when Emirates drops EDI or someone like United "postpones" any return for summer 2021. (MAN is already gone). This whole farce is spiralling into the realm of the absurd, and the degree of long term self harm is still not being widely understood. If BA get through 2021 without being nationalised that's a win. It's not as if there's anyone capable of filling that gap from the UK side.

[southside bobby]

One wonders why BA & nationalisation is mentioned...what is so deserving of BA that that should that happen?... always supposed the poster was a free marketeer.The times they are a changing...definitely.

[tictack67]

One wonders why BA & nationalisation is mentioned...what is so deserving of BA that that should that happen?... always supposed the poster was a free marketeer.The times they are a changing...definitely.

​​​​​Not sure how nationalising IAG which is listen on London and Madrid stock exchange

Unless he was meaning nationalised by the Spanish 😂🤣

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

​​​​​Not sure how nationalising IAG which is listen on London and Madrid stock exchange
Unless he was meaning nationalised by the Spanish 😂🤣
BA is a UK AOC holding London based op-co of IAG. If things get worse, and they likely will, there may come a tipping point where Madrid has to bail out Iberia and London bails out BA, in the national interest of not losing their home network carriers. IAG won't have a whole lot of choice unless things improve sharpish.

[southside bobby]

Would possibly major shareholder the Qatar Sovereign Wealth Fund or the even the latest investor a major hedge fund help with that.

[GoEDI]

That "reason" was to give the NHS three weeks of breathing space. The reason now is to save lives where the average age of COVID deaths is 82 and life expectancy is only 81. The rules are grossly disproportionate to the quantifiable risk. This is the Madness of Crowds, a hysterical over-reaction with no proper exit strategy.

Ireland are locking down hard, Wales just announced shopping for "non essential items" is to be illegal until otherwise stated. It's a group insanity driven by politicians well out of their depth. The reality may only hit home if and when Emirates drops EDI or someone like United "postpones" any return for summer 2021. (MAN is already gone). This whole farce is spiralling into the realm of the absurd, and the degree of long term self harm is still not being widely understood. If BA get through 2021 without being nationalised that's a win. It's not as if there's anyone capable of filling that gap from the UK side.

:D In a perverse way I'm almost ready to welcome the incoming complete economic collapse with open arms at this stage, as I think it's the only thing likely to slap the majority out from their blinkered Gov/media formed covid fear clouds, and see the bigger picture here. Reap what you sow etc...

To keep it on topic it seems EK have already dropped EDI recently anyway, with all flights being removed from their booking engine...so there's definitely nothing hitting home yet based on that development. Personally I find EZY dropping from over 200 flights a week last November, to 22 flights a week this Nov even more alarming.

[Plane mad 134]

EasyJet are to start a new EDI-ACE route 2x weekly and EDI-FUE 2x weekly. TFS will continue 3x weekly in November as well, instead of being cut as previously planned.

[olster]

Once again commuted up from a not as empty as predicted Terminal 5 on the former national carrier to Turnhouse. This time not imprisoned for 55 minutes prior to disembarkation and I enjoyed my sea salt crisps and water. As usual my wife picked me up from the drop off zone. This normally takes military precision in terms of timing due to the ever increasing charge courtesy of the enlightened management at Edinburgh airport. However unbeknownst to me there is a tiered charge and our timings this evening were a little off. The car was there for 12 minutes and the charge was wait for it 10 pounds!! Yes you read that right 10 quid for waiting just over 10 minutes.

My last post ref the absence of steps at Edi attracted a mixed reception. I wrote it like this one in a.humorous vein but with a serious underbelly. I am sure we can mainly agree that these Edinburgh car park charges are ludicrous. The aviation industry is in the doldrums and the Edinburgh approach in the face of economic Armageddon is to increase the car park charge. Please don’t read this if you are disinterested. The gist of my previous thread attracted a fair amount of ‘ why are we talking about this while we have the covid crisis, millions are dying etc’ and ‘ moderators ‘ take down this thread ‘ etc I do agree that what is happening to aviation is beyond terrible and tragic in terms of the economic impact but charging 10 pounds for a pick up is ridiculous.

cheers

[UnderASouthernSky]

You're complaining about being charged for spending over 10 minutes in the drop off zone when you were actually being picked up?!

[allert]

I’ve just checked the Edinburgh airport car parking webpage: Long stay car park 0-30 minutes is FREE.

Looks like that’s the price you’ve paid for the “necessary” convenience :ok:

[JliderPilot]

Used to operate in and out of Edi many times. It’s not an airport, it’s a shopping mall with a runway. ridiculous charges. The taxi drivers are getting fleeced as well.

[LTNman]

Better to add £10 to your airfare for airport charges and make the pickup free. That way you would be happy.

[VickersVicount]

That way you would be happy.
I have a feeling that might be a challenge....

[edi_local]

£10 seems reasonable to me if you're spending unnecessary time in the pick up zone. The charges are very clearly advertised before you enter the area and not only that but EDI revealed these new charges some time ago on their website and social media channels and it also got the attention of local media too.

As you say, Aviation is in the doldrums. Do you expect the airport to run on thin air? They have every right to make money off the very few people who are using it these days. Why on earth would you expect Otherwise?
​​​​​

[Asturias56]

I agree it looks extortionate but of course if there was no charge you'd have to have a very large waiting areas as people would arrive early or wait until people get out from airside - LHR used to have that problem at all their terminals 20 years ago.

i'm sure they'd say you're paying for the convenience of not using public transport to get you to your destination or somewhere cheaper to be picked up.

Its really just part of the democratisation (or Ryanisation) of the airline business - 60 years ago you were special - now you're treated as if you where on a local bus - you get what you pay for.............. if you're rich enough you can still get a car to the steps of your private jet

[mike current]

You can walk to the park & ride and get picked up there. It's free and you get the health benefits of a walk :)

(Other unofficial pickup points are available nearby but frowned upon by EAL)....

[Breathe]

(Other unofficial pickup points are available nearby but frowned upon by EAL)....
Do tell :)

[BA318]

I agree it looks extortionate but of course if there was no charge you'd have to have a very large waiting areas as people would arrive early or wait until people get out from airside - LHR used to have that problem at all their terminals 20 years ago.

i'm sure they'd say you're paying for the convenience of not using public transport to get you to your destination or somewhere cheaper to be picked up.

Its really just part of the democratisation (or Ryanisation) of the airline business - 60 years ago you were special - now you're treated as if you where on a local bus - you get what you pay for.............. if you're rich enough you can still get a car to the steps of your private jet

LHR doesn’t charge to drop passengers off. They have an ANPR system which will fine you for picking passengers up at the drop off point but there are not long queues. If they want to make money off passengers fair enough but let’s not make this out like it is necessary to control the terrible queues caused when no charge is in place because that doesn’t happen at far busier airports.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

It's a case of people can take a good idea too far. Unbundling of costs was a godsend to low cost travel. But the idea has been taken to extremes, with the concept of paying for a better seat now extended to paying to ensure you don't have a bad seat. The notion of having a proper meal included has gone as far as to have no tea or coffee included at all. There is a nice balance that people would pay a tiny bit more for to avoid hassle, but everyone in strategy and direction is fixated on following the crowd and not being left behind. Ryanair went from being the great innovater to being the new normal.

I am praying for some innovation in the other direction, because fundamentally, flying short haul is a pretty subpar experience and there are ways to improve this with marginal gains that could make a decent difference. But not in a collapsed post COVID industry.

[southside bobby]

Evidence BA & a Greggs sausage roll.

[edi_local]

LHR doesn’t charge to drop passengers off. They have an ANPR system which will fine you for picking passengers up at the drop off point but there are not long queues. If they want to make money off passengers fair enough but let’s not make this out like it is necessary to control the terrible queues caused when no charge is in place because that doesn’t happen at far busier airports.

LHR car parks are more expensive than EDI and the airport in general has more expensive offerings when it comes to shops and food, so LHR most certainly wants to make money off passengers too. I also seem to remember at LHR they had wardens scaring away people who were picking up outside the terminal and signs stating it was for drop off only. When I was staff there around about the time the new T2 opened I had a warden threaten to have my staff car park pass revoked because I'd gone to pick up my then girlfriend from the terminal after her shift at 11pm one night in the pouring rain. He ranted about how it wasn't a pick up zone and as staff I shouldn't even be using the kerbside facility.

[Plane mad 134]

Rather bizarrely Ryanair have loaded in 2x weekly EDI-STN flights from the 4th of December until the 8th of January. Dates after that show a loading sign so possibly more to come. Flights will be operated by Ryanair UK.

[piesupper]

Post removed

[737aviator]

Rather bizarrely Ryanair have loaded in 2x weekly EDI-STN flights from the 4th of December until the 8th of January. Dates after that show a loading sign so possibly more to come. Flights will be operated by Ryanair UK.

Wasn’t there something the gov no deal brexit planning that allowed EU airlines to continue existing domestic UK services up until the summer season? I think it’s been rewritten due to the transition deal but might be something to do with why they’d reinstate a route that straddles the end of the year...as well as likely decent demand for Christmas!

[Porrohman]

Rather bizarrely Ryanair have loaded in 2x weekly EDI-STN flights from the 4th of December until the 8th of January. Dates after that show a loading sign so possibly more to come. Flights will be operated by Ryanair UK.
I seem to recall that part of the reason the STN route was cut was because of the shortage of airframes due to delayed delivery of the Max200 aircraft. With lockdown happening in so many countries and with so many international routes suspended, it makes sense to me that Ryanair would use a little of its underutilised capacity to add to their domestic operation from EDI which is currently just Londonderry.

[southside bobby]

Ryanair just titling the added STN service as flying UK students ho ho-home for Christmas.

[gopaisleygo]

No use schedule (currently). Fingers crossed for more...