Edinburgh-3

[jensdad]

Surprising new route. Without wanting to start a political poostorm, I was under the impression that Linate was limited to domestic and EU flights only?

[SWBKCB]

MXP is Malpensa? Aren't these the long running student flights?

[BAladdy]

MXP is Malpensa? Aren't these the long running student flights?
don’t think AZ have operated from EDI in recent years. The move from LIN to MXP mid season is due to the planned closure of LIN due to upgrade work.

[4eyed anorak]

Good figures for JanuaryJan 2019
% vs Jan 2018
Domestic
393,984
+10.4%
International
526,490
+9.6%
Total
920,474
+9.9%
Regards 4ea

[Sk1schoolsam]

Quote from EDI Post:

”We are also seeing additional frequency being added to routes such as Doha with Qatar Airways and Istanbul with Turkish Airlines”

Know about the Qatar frequency increase but can’t find anything on the Turkish Airlines increase. Anyone got more details?

[CraigJay]

I believe TK goes daily in W19 rather than 5 weekly.

[Sk1schoolsam]

I believe TK goes daily in W19 rather than 5 weekly.

Thanks CJ, looks like their W19 schedule reflects this, another positive for EDI through the quieter months.

[Plane mad 134]

Seems rather a lot of capacity to the middle east but another good increase for Edinburgh.

[Plane mad 134]

Been reported in a Danish newspaper that a new Aalborg to Edinburgh route will be offered by a new start up airline called Great Dane on E195 aircraft, frequency is not mentioned. Seems like a weird route to do but good to see more new services and hope it does well.

[inOban]

The third largest municipality in Denmark, after CPN and Aarhus. And over 200 miles from CPN.

[Plane mad 134]

Ah ok, also frequency to be 3x weekly.

[willy wombat]

Am I missing something here? Not exactly new news.

[4eyed anorak]

That was last October 2018 Richard!

Regards 4ea

[Richard Taylor]

Woops sorry guys - I thought it was recent news! Me bad - I have deleted.

[Plane mad 134]

Anyone know if there will be any expansion this year, also will Loganair be adding extra capacity as they have the aircraft from the BMI shut down?

[BAladdy]

Anyone know if there will be any expansion this year, also will Loganair be adding extra capacity as they have the aircraft from the BMI shut down?
I don’t think we will see any additional capacity this summer from EDI. They are only planning to add around half of the aircraft operated by BM to there fleet.

LM are currently offering ex BM flight and cabin crew the chance to apply for positions LM’s existing bases at Aberdeen, Glasgow, Inverness and Norwich. They are also advertising for crew for new bases at Bristol, Chester, East Midlands, Newcastle and Londonderry

https://www.loganair.co.uk/recruitment-drive/

I am guessing that the recruitment of crew to be based at BRS and CEG means that LM are expecting to take over the Airbus corporate shuttle. They must also be confident that they are going to be awarded the LDY PSO since they are recruiting for a base in LDY.

Personally I think you will only see LM add 1 additional ER3 and 8 ER4’s to the fleet over the coming weeks. Taking the total to 11. With LM basing 2 ER3’s at NWI, 2 ER4’s at ABZ and 1 ER4 at BRS, CEG, EMA, GLA, INV, LDY and NCL.

[Plane mad 134]

Thanks BA laddy, It also was reported on another thread that Flybe are to increase Cardiff to 17x weekly up 4x weekly from last year.

[ScotsSLF]

Actually did the day trip yesterday EDI-CWL. Pretty full going down 50% load on way back up. On another note - why is there no Gate 8 at EDI? There’s a 7 and next to it 9 but no 8. Just curious

[Sk1schoolsam]

Actually did the day trip yesterday EDI-CWL. Pretty full going down 50% load on way back up. On another note - why is there no Gate 8 at EDI? There’s a 7 and next to it 9 but no 8. Just curious

Great question...I have always wondered this too.

Plus what construction work is going on at Gate 8 (Stand7) at the moment...anyone got an inside track on this??

Lots of internal work going on when I passed through on Monday. Excited to see what is coming....

The new No1 lounge is nice, although I don’t think it’s bigger then the old one, but does have its own toilets! I wonder if there is room up there for another lounge?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Also means the gates serve different numbered stands! Gate 9 is Stand 10.....

[GoEDI]

Great question...I have always wondered this too.

Plus what construction work is going on at Gate 8 (Stand7) at the moment...anyone got an inside track on this??

Lots of internal work going on when I passed through on Monday. Excited to see what is coming....

The new No1 lounge is nice, although I don’t think it’s bigger then the old one, but does have its own toilets! I wonder if there is room up there for another lounge?

Contractors area connected to the baggage hall refit/modernisation work ongoing over the next couple of years.

Always thought the reason for no gate 8 is because the airport can't trust Scottish gate staff to say it properly. :)

Internal work is primarily for Burger King I think...

[ld0595]

I've noticed that Ryanair have scheduled two return flights to Shannon over the weekend of Brexit - out on 29th March, returning Sunday 31st.

Friday

FR 996 EDI-SNN (15:00-16:15)
FR 998 EDI-SNN (18:20-19:35)
FR 997 SNN-EDI (16:40-17:55)
FR 999 SNN-EDI (20:00-21:15)

Sunday

FR 996 EDI-SNN (12:00-13:15)
FR 998 EDI-SNN (15:20-16:35)
FR 997 SNN-EDI (13:40-14:55)
FR 999 SNN-EDI (17:00-18:15)

Anyone know the reason for this? Brexit related or purely coincidence?

Edit: I've also noticed they have similar flights to/from Cork then too. 3 on the Friday, 1 on the Saturday and 2 on the Sunday.

[inOban]

Rugby. Edinburgh are playing Munster in the Rugby Champions Cup.

[ld0595]

Rugby. Edinburgh are playing Munster in the Rugby Champions Cup.

Thank you for clarifying that - makes sense to me now. I wondered why it was just Edinburgh and no other UK destination.

[JobsaGoodun]

I see Flybe are increasing EDILHR to 6 x daily effective 22APR with a new early morning flight northbound. Looks like they'll be putting a DH4 in LHR overnight.

[nighthawk117]

Rugby. Edinburgh are playing Munster in the Rugby Champions Cup.
#FakeNews. It's to repatriate all the Irish prior to a hard brexit :-)

[Plane mad 134]

So with all the route news over the last few weeks I wonder what will be next, so Ill start off with the rumours I have heard:
·American may increase Philadelphia to year round if it does well.
·Easyjet will make a routes announcement soon.
·Flybe/Connect airways are interested in making the base bigger.
·United to put a B767-300 on the Newark run.
·Air Canada to go year round on the MAX.
·Cathay Pacific 3x weekly on A350-900 to Hong Kong

If you have heard any other rumours please feel free to say them below, as I said though these are only rumours and may come to nothing, thats the fun of it.

[ld0595]

I haven't been keeping up with the redevelopment of the terminal. Now that the new gates have opened, are there any plans to expand the check in facility? Last time I passed through, it was bursting at the seams. I know they've moved a few desks to the international and domestic arrivals, but I can't see that being a long term solution.

[CabinCrewe]

Cathay Pacific would be great. A very good airline. Would be interesting to see where it pulls the pax from eg other One World routes or domestic. Would probably impact on HA and EK too as Cathay will have great pull.

[inOban]

Of the list, the most likely would seem to be an upsizing of one of the NY routes. There must be significant numbers of Norwegian passengers looking for an alternative.

[FFHKG]

If CX was to launch, would have thouhht it was a little late to announce for this year. CX have already announced a number of new routes for 2019.

[Plane mad 134]

I would think the launch would be 2020 now for the Cathay service if it were to be announced.

[MARK9263]

Souns more like a wish list to me!

[chaps1954]

United is the most likely as they are fazing the 757 out on trans atlantic, Manchester goes B767 from end of March

[VickersVicount]

There must be significant numbers of Norwegian passengers looking for an alternative.
Id imagine they'll go back to whatever low cost options they used before eg EI,WOW and FI.
All the current NA routes are not full even at peak summer so plenty of room, particularly as the total DY pax were not huge. Cant see any significant capacity change in short term.
The 757's have a few more years in them assuming fuel doesnt kill them off

[GoEDI]

34265 pax used NY area routes last July. This coming July total seats available will only be 15686...

Far from plenty of room, that sounds like under capacity to me... even allowing for some transfer pax shift to other hubs, as D8 was pure O&D and AA's JFK hub was pretty weak for connections anyway.

I do think the market was getting crowded and some right sizing was needed, but I believe it's gone too far the other way now. I think once IAD has bedded in UA will look to upgrade EWR to widebody equipment in line with all their other year round EWR routes, as I believe EDI could well be the last remaining year round B752 route out of EWR now.

[Plane mad 134]

Loganir announced intentions to serve an Edinburgh to Southend route later this year.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Loganir announced intentions to serve an Edinburgh to Southend route later this year.

The press official Loganair release seams to only talk about Glasgow and Aberdeen. Business Traveller seam a little off the mark....

“Aberdeen-based Loganair will operate its first ever flights from London Southend.

The routes in question are to Aberdeen, Glasgow and Stornaway.....”

Where did you see the EDI announcement?

[Plane mad 134]

Article on the scotsman:
https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/first-ever-stornoway-london-flights-announced-by-loganair-1-4880286

Hope you find it useful.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Article on the scotsman:
https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/first-ever-stornoway-london-flights-announced-by-loganair-1-4880286

Hope you find it useful.

thank you 😊👍

[SealinkBF]

The "Wee-Frees" will be shocked at the antics in London...!

[Rob Royston]

The "Wee-Frees" will be shocked at the antics in London...!
"Wee-Frees" have visited, lived and worked in London for centuries. What will shock them is when they sit beside a Glasgow passenger who is only paying 40% of what they have been charged despite the Glasgow passenger flying 2/3 of the overall distance. They may decide to travel to Inverness and join another carrier there. Loyalty is a two-way street.

[VickersVicount]

What was the complex triangle loads for the EDI Hainan sector for Jan? theyve thus far perceived to have been pretty dire. Perhaps peak summer only would suit them better. Would be surprised if a lot of outbound buisness users would choose them as first choice with so many better options

[Rutan16]

What was the complex triangle loads for the EDI Hainan sector for Jan? theyve thus far perceived to have been pretty dire. Perhaps peak summer only would suit them better. Would be surprised if a lot of outbound buisness users would choose them as first choice with so many better options
It’s is Chinese tour operators flight for CAISSA and a freight truck. Don’t be fooled by the scheduled label.
Same applies at Manchester Brussels and Dublin.OH and to all those 2 weekly Heathrow HNA Group flights to those thertiary Chinese cities no one had ever heard of a few years ago.
They will take the businessmans money but it’s not their primary income stream.
BTW really the numbers of UK businessman traveling to China remain far smaller than many think or expect and when they do go Beijing is rarely where they actually want to go - No that remains Hong Kong and Shanghai period stop- You do your deals in these cities with your Chinese brokers and mainland contacts. They then sort out the logicitics and a few month later a container full of c**p arrives at your warehouse gates.

[Ringwayman]

1666 passengers for Hainan = 185 passengers per round trip / 92 one-way passengers. I don't think Dublin has a monthly breakdown of routes. Allowing the capacity of the aircraft to be sold equally for EDI and DUB means the loads were around 62%

For comparison, MAN averaged 432 passengers per round trip / 216 one-way passengers = 74% loads

[Rutan16]

The Chinese aviation industry is smoke and mirrors and built on sand . It’s far from a western capitalist model of profit and loss rather its the very centre of the Chinese Global Power Push and momentum and all those pretty colours are a sharade!
The purse strings and route growth dynamics are purely a party drive - indeed targets are set by both central and regional Communist Party dictates and right from the very top - Xi Jinping himself - and his aim of world dominance within the next thirty years
One thing the Chinese authorities are exceptionally good is playing the long game !

[davidjohnson6]

Great Dane Airlines have now put their Aalborg-Edinburgh route on sale. Not particularly impressed with the timings on this route - can't figure out the target audience

[Plane mad 134]

Ba are supposed to be sending their A319 in retro livery to Edinburgh, either tonight or tommorow.

[goldeneye]

Ba are supposed to be sending their A319 in retro livery to Edinburgh, either tonight or tommorow.

Schedule has changed and should night stop in GOT.

[Plane mad 134]

Aw ok thats unfortunate, in other news have Jet2 announced anything new from Edinburgh for S20, as they are adding new routes from other airports.

[VickersVicount]

have Jet2 announced anything new from Edinburgh for S20
No. Certain bases not released yet.

[Plane mad 134]

Ok thanks, I have just heard the new routes for Edinburgh will be announced soon.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Ok thanks, I have just heard the new routes for Edinburgh will be announced soon.

From Jet2? Or others.....

[Plane mad 134]

Sorry should have made it clear, it will be Jet2, but I believe the Edinburgh team are at routes Asia trying to talk to Airlines like Cathay and China Eastern. They also want an increase from Emirates but I dont believe that will happen for a while.

[Plane mad 134]

Norwegian are suspending all B737 MAX8 operations, so Edinburgh routes to America affected. Also UK CAA have banned all MAX operations into and through UK airspace.

[inOban]

It stops in two weeks anyway, even though some of the fares in the final weeks are quite high, suggesting that loads are decent.

[inOban]

February traffic up 11%, both domestic and international.

[Plane mad 134]

Thats great news, and with all the new routes for S19 I think this will be another record breaking year.

[4eyed anorak]

Laudamotion to start Vienna flights!?

Regards 4ea

[Lon12]

3 weekly from October

[inOban]

Have Ryanair finished loading W19 flights? Because if so, they're dropping STN. FR have become so dependent on ancillary income (priority seats, extra bag, scratch cards etc) that it must be difficult to make a profit on commuter flights.

[Plane mad 134]

Good to see Laudamotion at Edinburgh, This is a good addition. And Ryanair are just finalising their W19 timetable the now, and I expect Stansted will be loaded up soon.

[Plane mad 134]

Today a Ba Cityflyer plane from London city to Dusseldorf, made an accidental landing in Edinburgh after the incorrect paperwork was filed.

[Plane mad 134]

Wow air flights are canceled to Reykjavik as the airline is filing for bankruptcy.

[willy wombat]

I would have thought that there might be a reasonable prospect of Icelandair opening an EDI route once they have sufficient aircraft flying again.

[chaps1954]

Have they, they still have the MAXs grounded

[inOban]

Would Icelandair start flights from EDI in competition with their established service from Glasgow? Doubt it. More likely that EZY increase their service.

[willy wombat]

I was thinking more that with Norwegian having thrown in the transatlantic towel and Wow going, there might be enough transatlantic traffic to support ops from GLA and EDI.

[Plane mad 134]

Just seen a Loganair E135 at Edinburgh, seems it will be operating some services.

[Rob Royston]

Just seen a Loganair E135 at Edinburgh, seems it will be operating some services.
If it's G-SAJR it is flying from Norwich

[Plane mad 134]

Yes it was on the Norwich run, nice plane to see though, Livery looked smart.

[Plane mad 134]

A few new services this week
·Loganair daily to Islay
·Ryanair 3x weekly to Luxembourg
·Qatar begin 8th weekly service
·Flybe add 5th daily Heathrow service
·Lufthansa add 3rd weekly service to Munich

Along with this American will start their daily Philadelphia service on B757 and Ryanair will add 2 weekly service to Billund, this will require an 9th aircraft to be based.

All this leads to some healthy growth after the recent reductions and cuts.

[inOban]

Surely the Munich is a cut since it replaces a daily Eurowings?

[4eyed anorak]

I thought the Lufthansa service was to operate alongside the Eurowings service?

Regards 4ea

[inOban]

No direct flights showing on the Eurowings site.

[GoEDI]

No direct flights showing on the Eurowings site.

It returns from the start of June 5pw, alongside 3pw on LH...

[inOban]

Didn't look that far ahead. Presumably peak season only?

[GoEDI]

Didn't look that far ahead. Presumably peak season only?

Year round with a 6ish week break in Jan/Feb. Not sure why it isn't operating in April and May. Perhaps deemed too short a lead time after they put it back on sale at the end of Dec.

[inOban]

The same break as with CGN and DUS?

[Porrohman]

The first batch of new stands became operational on 28th March according to this NOTAM;

From 13:00 on 28th March until 20:00 on 1st April;

AIRCRAFT ALLOCATED STANDS 33, 34, 308, 309, 310R, 310, 311R, 311, 311L AND 312 ARE SUBJECT TO FOLLOW ME FOR BOTH INBOUND AND OUTBOUND MOVEMENTS. INBOUND AIRCRAFT DESTINED FOR THESE STANDS CAN EXPECT TO BE DIRECTED TO HOLDING POINT G2 WHERE THE FOLLOW ME SHALL COMMENCE. OUTBOUND AIRCRAFT CAN EXPECT TO RECEIVE A FOLLOW ME FROM PUSHBACK COMPLETION POINT TO HOLDING POINT G2
CREATED: 28 Mar 2019 13:14:00

The new apron is called the Turnhouse Apron and the stand layout is on the "AIRCRAFT GROUND MOVEMENT/PARKING/DOCKING" chart via this link;
NATS EGPH (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=62&Itemid=111.html)

There's another NOTAM suggesting that further stands on the Turnhouse Apron will open on 17th May;

From 28th March at 00:00 until 17th May at 16:00;
TURNHOUSE APRON RESTRICTIONS: TAXIWAY MIKE AT HOLDING POINT MIKE 4 IS CLOSED
TAXIWAY HOTEL AT HOLDING POINT HOTEL 5 IS CLOSED. TEMPORARY FENCES ARE IN PLACE. FENCES ARE LINED WITH RED/WHITE BLOCKS AND ARE ILLUMINATED IN HOURS OF DARKNESS
STANDS 313L, 313, 314,315 AND 316 CLOSED
CREATED: 27 Mar 2019 17:46:00

[sinbad73]

STN-EDI with FR cut to 4 per week in June?

STN-BFS also cut to 2 per week apparently?

[cuthere]

STN-EDI with FR cut to 4 per week in June?

STN-BFS also cut to 2 per week apparently

Sinbad. Why not have a look at the FR website and try booking either route you list. No “apparently” about it. Either they’ve cut the schedule, or the website is kaput. You decide.

[Plane mad 134]

Does anyone have any info on the inaugral Philadelphia loads?

[VickersVicount]

At least 50 empty seats across both classes on the inbound PHL-EDI tonight if thats any guide.

[Plane mad 134]

Thanks, hopefully the route will pick up and be fuller as we head into the summer, on a different note I inquired to Cathay Pacific about Edinburgh and I got an email back saying they were monitoring this route as it looked like an interesting possibility and that the marketing team would take this inquiry and hand it over to the team as well, take what you want of this :)

[inOban]

It would seem that EZY will drop Stuggart at the end of October. Hardly surprising.

[A350Saltire]

It looks as though DL will go year round on the JFK route given it is on sale until March 2020. Great news if it turns out to be the case!

[Plane mad 134]

Thats great to hear about Delta, the capacity is needed during winter to fill in for the Norwegian service that ended.

[ld0595]

I could see Delta upgrading to a 767 in S20. Loads have been looking quite good based on their seat maps.

[inOban]

March data now on website. Up 14.8% to over 1.1 million, but they admit that last March was badly affected by the Beast from the East.

I expect a couple more months of growth, before the FR STN cutback and the loss of Norwegian and WOW become obvious.

[Plane mad 134]

Sorry if this is a silly question but how do you see the slot applications and holders for Edinburgh, As It shows that as EDI is a level 2 airport it does not get a report on ACL, can anyone help me out?

Best regards

[BHX5DME]

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/EDI_S19_SOS_REPORT.pdf

[Plane mad 134]

Thanks BHX5DME 😃

[Sk1schoolsam]

https://www.acl-uk.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/EDI_S19_SOS_REPORT.pdf

Interesting reading thank you. Overall positive in growth although some of the changes a bit of smoke and mirrors (intra company changes). Also highlights a decline in some of the old long standing routes to AMS and CDG. Impact of EK and QR perhaps on the international connecting passengers?
A few reductions and cancellations I was not aware
off on the charter and holiday flights. Is EDI the only airport wheee TUI and Thomas Cook are reduceing flights?

[Plane mad 134]

I have also done a dummy booking for Aegean to Athens, and it has a longer season than last year. It now runs from now until the 16th of January 2020 and starts again on the 1st of march 2020.

[jensdad]

Interesting landing on Rwy06 in a Saab 340 in Monday morning's crosswinds. Could have done with 13 still being open! Looking at the aerodrome plan (link provided by Porrohman), is there any GA at Edinburgh these days?

[Plane mad 134]

There is quite a lot of GA to be honest, with last saturday having 5 arrivals/departures between 12pm and 4pm.

[jensdad]

Quite a bit indeed then. More than we get most afternoons at NCL. Thanks, Planemad :)

[A350Saltire]

I believe QR will go 10x weekly next year from April on DOH-EDI. Extra flights will be on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. All operated by A359.

[Sk1schoolsam]

I believe QR will go 10x weekly next year from April on DOH-EDI. Extra flights will be on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. All operated by A359.

Good spot, booking available from Wed 1st April.....expect this is to the end of October like S19

[Plane mad 134]

Tui seem to have dropped Gran Canria and Rhodes for S20 and added a new Antalya flight.

[inOban]

We'll just have to use Jet2 then...

[Severn]

We'll just have to use Jet2 then...
Except you'll have to wait for Jet2 to release their Summer 20 schedule from EDI/GLA..... they released all their other bases (except EMA) 6 weeks ago...

[Plane mad 134]

Anyone in the know why Air Iceland had a flight today as FXI 670 and reg was TF-FXA Dash8 Q400.

[Plane mad 134]

Emirates are using one of their new B777-300ER on the route today as A6-EQH, this will be with the new first class suites.

[Plane mad 134]

Also Easyjet to continue Jersey into the winter season at 2x weekly.

[edi_local]

Anyone in the know why Air Iceland had a flight today as FXI 670 and reg was TF-FXA Dash8 Q400.

The return leg of a charter for an Icelandic company. The inbound flight was earlier on in the week.

[Plane mad 134]

The return leg of a charter for an Icelandic company. The inbound flight was earlier on in the week.
Ah ok thanks, seems there will be another flight tommorow as well according to FR24.

[sinbad73]

I have read elsewhere that PEK-DUB/EDI HU service looks like it is for the chop - last flight from PEK 31st August.

[ld0595]

I have read elsewhere that PEK-DUB/EDI HU service looks like it is for the chop - last flight from PEK 31st August.

Would be a shame, but probably not surprising given that return fares were in the low £400s or even less. Flight times probably didnt help either.

Seems strange that they upgraded to a 789 this summer though. Perhaps going seasonal?

[CabinCrewe]

I have read elsewhere.
To make comment on the validity, where is this 'elsewhere' source you talk of?
Thought we were always assured this was going to go good-guns. Unlike wrong type of snow on the lines, will this be blamed on the wrong Chinese carrier?
Remains to be seen, perhaps just going seasonal. But agree with all those empty seats even on a triangle route was surprised to see 789.
Would be a shame to see it ditched when EDI threw everything at it to land it. A nice looking livery, though wouldnt be in my top list if departing EDI going East

[VickersVicount]

I can confirm that most of the TA booking engines have further booking blocked from Sept. Doesn't look good for this attempt at a China Flagship route.
Think some commentators did say it was doomed from the outset.

[edi_local]

The annoying is now people can scream that EDI/Scotland failed to hold on to a Chinese route when so many were asking for it for ages. Hainan didn't give this route any real chance to grow. 2 a week in each direction with the odd Dublin stop over that they weren't always advising people about and at strange times is not doing the market justice.

​​​​​There most certainly is demand but a more serious carrier is needed. Direct flights, at least 4pw and actuallly advertising the route at this end would have probably increased HUs fortunes but they were simply not interested.

​​​​

[Flightrider]

Hainan didn't give this route any real chance to grow. 2 a week in each direction with the odd Dublin stop over that they weren't always advising people about and at strange times is not doing the market justice.

The emotion seems to be overtaking any rational business sense in your reply. Have you got any remote idea as to the level of investment required to support the service even in its current form? If it is not working - regardless of the reason why - airlines cannot afford to lose several million (and that's the quantum we're talking about here) flying aircraft at below break-even load factors and/or yields unless they see some very clear signs of improvement on the horizon. If you want a daily Beijing service with Air China then it is going to require tens of millions to support it. [Even then, it is not bound to succeed - Qatar Airways at Cardiff being the obvious example.] If you haven't got those tens of millions to chuck at it, then you have to make do with what the market can provide on a purely commercial basis - which you then can't really complain about.

[Logohu]

and actuallly advertising the route at this end would have probably increased HUs fortunes but they were simply not interested.

​​​​

From various media reports over the last year I suspect Hainan may have other priorities for spending whatever cash they have. Like how to pay their aircraft leases for example...

[nighthawk117]

It's slightly surprising that this flight hasn't worked out - Chinese tourist visits to the UK and Europe are booming at the moment, and as we know Edinburgh is a very popular tourist destination. There should have been enough demand to sustain a 2 weekly service... surely?

But as others have said, Hainan are not exactly in a great financial position, so if the route is struggling they just dont have the resources to keep it going. Anyway, lets not get too carried away - it may just be going summer only for all we know.

[southside bobby]

After a declaration of a `climate emergency` last week from the First Minister & now the Scottish Government decision to U turn on a manifesto pledge to halve & then eliminate APD/ADT but retain it in its entirety it is surprising perhaps there has been zero comment on this or any other forum.

[SWBKCB]

Finance Secretary Derek Mackay said reducing air departure tax - which will replace air passenger duty in Scotland - was "no longer compatible" with its climate targets. Mr Mackay added: "All parts of government and society have a contribution to make to meeting this challenge. We continue to support our tourism industry, which is going from strength to strength, and we will work with the sector to develop in a sustainable way. We welcome their efforts - and those of the aviation industry - to reduce carbon emissions."

The announcement was criticised by Gordon Dewar, the chief executive of Edinburgh Airport, who said: "We've gone from personal commitments to all-out cancellation in the space of just two weeks, which shows just how reactionary this decision is. It does not show leadership and means airports and airlines have been led down a path of failed promises for three years by this Scottish government. It also raises questions about continued support for our tourism sector when airlines have already walked away from Scotland due to this failure to deliver."

Scottish government scraps air tax cut (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48191110)

[edi_local]

The emotion seems to be overtaking any rational business sense in your reply. Have you got any remote idea as to the level of investment required to support the service even in its current form? If it is not working - regardless of the reason why - airlines cannot afford to lose several million (and that's the quantum we're talking about here) flying aircraft at below break-even load factors and/or yields unless they see some very clear signs of improvement on the horizon. If you want a daily Beijing service with Air China then it is going to require tens of millions to support it. [Even then, it is not bound to succeed - Qatar Airways at Cardiff being the obvious example.] If you haven't got those tens of millions to chuck at it, then you have to make do with what the market can provide on a purely commercial basis - which you then can't really complain about.

Let's be honest though HU seem to have a bit of a history of starting up a route, often with bizarre routings, times and frequency, sticking around for a bit and then cancelling it. Money for startups doesn't seem to be an issue. They have launched 3 weekly to Oslo and added Dublin to Shenzhen, as well as the HNA group move to LHR from LGW inirecent months. They just don't seem that interested in sticking around for long once they are in. A lot of work was put into this route but I just get the impression they have had no long term commitment desires from the start.

​​​​

​

[edi_local]

After a declaration of a `climate emergency` last week from the First Minister & now the Scottish Government decision to U turn on a manifesto pledge to halve & then eliminate APD/ADT but retain it in its entirety it is surprising perhaps there has been zero comment on this or any other forum.

Disappointing but not surprising given the people the SNP rely on for support. I would have thought a sensible compromise could have been found thought, such as freezing the APD rate in Scotland for X years to mititage against any UK wide increases.

I wonder what it means for PIK as it seems a bit hypocritical to support one bit of the aviation industry and still insist there is a climate emergency or whatever this week's buzzword is .

[Plane mad 134]

Bad news to hear of Hainan but Im guessing competition from Emirates and Qatar has not helped, maybe this will prompt Cathay Pacific to start a Hong Kong route.

[FFHKG]

Or maybe cause CX to think twice about starting the route if competition from ME carriers is the cause.

[ld0595]

With the amount of capacity that Qatar and Emirates are throwing at the Scottish market just now, I'd be surprised to see Cathay Pacific starting any time soon, or seeing any other far eastern long haul destination for that matter. My calculations suggest that in the high summer, there will be over 11,000 eastbound seats per week on EK/QR between Glasgow and Edinburgh alone (1 daily A380, 2 daily 77W and 10 weekly A359), and even about 9,500 seats in the lowest season (3 daily 77W, 1 daily A359). Granted, most capacity is to Dubai which is a very popular tourist destination in itself, but it's still a huge number of seats to fill for connections.

I think Cathay could have an OK chance of doing well given the number of destinations in mainland China that they serve, along with connection opportunities to Australia/NZ and I guess the UK historical links with Hong Kong, but I can't see the Scottish market being able to sustain that number of eastbound seats whilst providing sufficient yields for CX. Happy to be proved wrong though - I'd love to see them and I'd definitely use them again.

[inOban]

If you're heading for China/Japan surely the logical route is use Helsinki as your hub? Much more direct

[CraigJay]

Cathay are doing great at DUB and they have all 3 of the main ME carriers. Surely the market size in Scotland and Ireland is roughly the same, I’m sure Cathay would fare far better at EDI than Hainan did.

[nighthawk117]

Relax everyone... Airlineroute are now reporting EDI and DUB flights are back on sale beyond 1st September. Looks like it was a false alarm. As you were.

[Plane mad 134]

Well thats good news.

[wub]

I was able to make a dummy booking on the Hainan website for Edinburgh to Beijing as late as the end of September

[Sk1schoolsam]

I was able to make a dummy booking on the Hainan website for Edinburgh to Beijing as late as the end of September


Only Full fare tickets available thought, many cheaper connecting flights offered, with the Direct flight well down the list. Still not sure it will be maintained through Sept.

[Cyrano]

Only Full fare tickets available thought, many cheaper connecting flights offered, with the Direct flight well down the list. Still not sure it will be maintained through Sept.

I agree. Here's the Google flights search (https://www.google.ie/flights?lite=0&gl=uk#flt=EDI.PEK.2019-08-24;c:GBP;e:1;ca:-BRU;a:HU;sd:1;t:f;tt:o) result showing the Hainan EDI-PEK pricing - click on "Price Graph" and look at the jump from 1 Sep onwards. Yes, you can book, but only at a dissuasively high fare. This is not an airline looking to encourage forward bookings after the end of August.

Incidentally the same exercise for Dublin-Beijing is interesting. Here's (https://www.google.ie/flights?lite=0&gl=uk#flt=DUB.PEK.2019-10-05;c:GBP;e:1;ca:-BRU;a:HU;m:pf;sd:1;t:f;tt:o) the Google flights search for that. "Price Graph" this time suggests that Hainan is happy for you to continue booking on the Monday or Friday departure from Dublin until the end of October, just not the Tuesday or Saturday one... Does this mean that Dublin is being decoupled from Edinburgh?

[Plane mad 134]

Loganair added Bergen and Stavanger this week and Guernsey to start tommorow they had a cake and water arch all pictures on twitter.

Also it would be good to see Hainan decoupling from Dublin.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Relax everyone... Airlineroute are now reporting EDI and DUB flights are back on sale beyond 1st September. Looks like it was a false alarm. As you were.
The whole HAINAN group are carrying a mountain of debt, sending a B789 to double drop Scotland and Dublin is not tenable, particularly given the loads.
OK it's a high profile route operated by a Chinese registered Dreamliner being offered with some decent fares to market but there are wayy more sensible routes to go from EDI if price is not the only thing on your mind.
They don't really "accidentally " do this, it feels like there's a fight going on for the aircraft used and someone else won, then may have lost, but it isn't growing at anything like fast enough to be a credible offering to anyone outside price conscious tourism.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

I agree. Here's the Google flights search (https://www.google.ie/flights?lite=0&gl=uk#flt=EDI.PEK.2019-08-24;c:GBP;e:1;ca:-BRU;a:HU;sd:1;t:f;tt:o) result showing the Hainan EDI-PEK pricing - click on "Price Graph" and look at the jump from 1 Sep onwards. Yes, you can book, but only at a dissuasively high fare. This is not an airline looking to encourage forward bookings after the end of August.

Incidentally the same exercise for Dublin-Beijing is interesting. Here's (https://www.google.ie/flights?lite=0&gl=uk#flt=DUB.PEK.2019-10-05;c:GBP;e:1;ca:-BRU;a:HU;m:pf;sd:1;t:f;tt:o) the Google flights search for that. "Price Graph" this time suggests that Hainan is happy for you to continue booking on the Monday or Friday departure from Dublin until the end of October, just not the Tuesday or Saturday one... Does this mean that Dublin is being decoupled from Edinburgh?

The Monday and Friday ex DUB are to Shenzhen not Beijing.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Cathay are doing great at DUB and they have all 3 of the main ME carriers. Surely the market size in Scotland and Ireland is roughly the same, I’m sure Cathay would fare far better at EDI than Hainan did.
Scotland is more "local", it needs an airport for both Edinburgh and Glasgow and so the market fragments badly and the comparison is lost. One "Central Scotland" airport would have United flying if not B772s then at least B787s with Delta surely flying A330s. As things stand, it's narrow body central with yields (slightly) diluted but more local options. Dublin dominates BFS, ORK and SNN in a way neither GLA/EDI can do in Scotland.

[Cyrano]

The Monday and Friday ex DUB are to Shenzhen not Beijing.
:ugh: Duh. You're absolutely right. Sorry! OK, forget my reference to decoupling - that therefore implies that the whole EDI/DUB-PEK is likely for the chop...

[nighthawk117]

Scotland is more "local", it needs an airport for both Edinburgh and Glasgow and so the market fragments badly and the comparison is lost.

While I agree that what Scotland needs is a single, central belt airport, I dont think it would make much difference here. The main market for this flight is inbound Chinese tourists, many of which tend to book as part of a package tour. What airport they fly in to is irrelevant - as they'll be boarding a pre-booked bus and will be whisked off to the first of their many destinations - probably Edinburgh to start anyway, then on to other destinations around Scotland.

Any business travel, or Scottish tourists heading to Beijing will just be a happy extra, but certainly not the main market for this flight. As such, I don't think a single central airport would make much difference in this case.

As for the United / Delta examples - i'm not convinced. Look at Manchester, with its much larger catchment, yet it's still narrowbody central to the US. With the exception of the United flight which upgraded this year, it's all 757s. These aircraft are perfect for operating flights to the UK, freeing up widebodies for flights further in to Europe.

[Sk1schoolsam]

:ugh: Duh. You're absolutely right. Sorry! OK, forget my reference to decoupling - that therefore implies that the whole EDI/DUB-PEK is likely for the chop...

Hainan website showing the direct flight Still scheduled till 24th October. Perhaps just going seasonal?

[VickersVicount]

but still only bookable for certain fare types and no cheap seats. Not a great way of convincing the tour groups.

[cuthere]

Just popping by. I thought I was viewing the Edinburgh thread. My mistake....!

[CabinCrewe]

Just popping by. I thought I was viewing the Edinburgh thread. My mistake....!
LOL! Its the old grandeur above station again that leads to this..😴

[cuthere]

LOL! Its the old grandeur above station again that leads to this..��

You been drinking? Maybe I’m naive after 15 years on here; however, can you explain to me the direct relevance of what carrier is using what aircraft FROM MANCHESTER TO AMERICA to this thread?

I like reading about Edinburgh and its routes etc on the Edinburgh thread. Were I to be interested in another airport, I would read the relevant thread. Apologies for my grandeur above station. I’m also a stickler for apostrophes. Maybe use one the next time you’re abbreviating “it” and “is” to “it’s”. Cheers!

[Rutan16]

It’s relevant only that it’s correcting erroneous information posted on this particular thread by others .

[CabinCrewe]

You been drinking? Maybe I’m naive after 15 years on here; however, can you explain to me the direct relevance of what carrier is using what aircraft FROM MANCHESTER TO AMERICA to this thread?

I like reading about Edinburgh and its routes etc on the Edinburgh thread. Were I to be interested in another airport, I would read the relevant thread. Apologies for my grandeur above station. I’m also a stickler for apostrophes. Maybe use one the next time you’re abbreviating “it” and “is” to “it’s”. Cheers!
The reference was to the usual EDI posters claiming EDI is entitled to widebodies on a par with MAN.
If I want a grammar lesson, it most certainly "wont" be from you.

[VickersVicount]

If I want a grammar lesson, it most certainly "wont" be from you.
LOL! Anyway, back to EDI... What about this HA debacle?

[sinbad73]

LOL! Anyway, back to EDI... What about this HA debacle?

HU.

HA is Hawaiian.

[ld0595]

Could be switching to summer seasonal, could be completely suspended. Seems like management don't even know.

A quote from this article: Scotland’s direct air link to China faces axe (https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/air-tax-scotland-s-direct-air-link-to-china-faces-axe-1-4922912)


Edinburgh Airport said it was waiting to hear from the airline whether flights would resume next summer.
A spokesman said: “We understand this is a suspension of the route over the winter. We’re bitterly disappointed and there will be no let-up in our efforts to maintain Scotland’s only direct link to China and the Far East – but having the most expensive aviation tax in the world doesn’t help.”

[Asturias56]

Just looking at LHR-EDI mid August - almost all the flights "only have 3/4/6 tickets left"

Is this real and if so is it always like this???

And it's £ 170++ one way..............

[inOban]

Edinburgh Festival?

[ATNotts]

Could be switching to summer seasonal, could be completely suspended. Seems like management don't even know.

A quote from this article: Scotland’s direct air link to China faces axe (https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/air-tax-scotland-s-direct-air-link-to-china-faces-axe-1-4922912)

The Chinese tour operator CAISA will be bank rolling the operation, if CAISA aren't happy with take up on PEK/EDI they will consolidate their bookings on to PEK/MAN. If they want to give EDI another crack they'll possibly resume for summer, perhaps just peak summer, 2020.

BHX managed 2 season with CAISA before Hainan / CAISA jumped into bed with MAN and there is now hardly even a slim chance that there'll be a direct PEK/BHX in the medium term. Sadly same may well happen with EDI. Whatever, the real high revenue business traffic will continue to reside in the UK where it always has done - London; home of the largest number of billionaires of any global city - according the the Sunday Times Rich List.

[inOban]

Is the fact that the Dublin to Shenzhen route is continuing the key? For business traffic a route to South China would surely have been better.
I do notice that the HU route to Oslo continues. Perhaps EDI as an extension of that would be better.

[willy wombat]

What I would really, really like to know (but never will) is whether various services that run for a while then stop are attracted by sweetheart deals, discounts, marketing support etc and when that runs out the route doesn't prove to be viable. And another thing, it is time that Scottish airport managements stopped going on about APD. It's not going to go away, it's not going to be reduced (manifesto or no manifesto) and businesses need to plan on that basis. I will, however, accept complaints about the Brexit omnishambles.

[VickersVicount]

Perhaps EDI as an extension of that would be better.
Why? I doubt the inbound Chinese tourist really cares (if they've committed to what might be a double drop) whether its OSL or DUB.
If it is prestige Chinese business EDI are after, this is the wrong airline/product, wrong frequency and needs (always) to be direct.
Cathay Pacific 4-5 times per week, A35G, direct to HKG would have a far better chance. Much nicer product, well known, redivert some LHR OW connections. Would be surprised to see this happen though in current climate. If there were indeed generous incentives for HA could there be for others?

[Rob Royston]

When I saw that the flight was feeding two airports at this end I feared the worst. On a lot of routes from Europe to Africa that's what happened when the bigger modern jets arrived with passengers on the second drop having over an hour added to their journey times each way. Very few local passengers used the flight to/from the second airport, it was mostly business people and oil workers plus lots of oilfied cargo.
It also meant that the return overnight flights missed the early connections to places like Dublin, Edinburgh etc leading to more lost time.
The Chinese travellers probably get put off as well if the flight does not go directly to their chosen destination.

[nighthawk117]

When I saw that the flight was feeding two airports at this end I feared the worst. On a lot of routes from Europe to Africa that's what happened when the bigger modern jets arrived with passengers on the second drop having over an hour added to their journey times each way. Very few local passengers used the flight to/from the second airport, it was mostly business people and oil workers plus lots of oilfied cargo.
It also meant that the return overnight flights missed the early connections to places like Dublin, Edinburgh etc leading to more lost time.
The Chinese travellers probably get put off as well if the flight does not go directly to their chosen destination.

Why does everyone keep fixating on the fact its a double drop? Just book on the days it operates directly to/from EDI! I'm pretty sure the vast majority of passengers managed to work that one out. Only those desperate to get to EDI on the days it operates PEK-DUB-EDI would book on that flight, and even then they probably got there quicker than connecting at a hub.

[CabinCrewe]

Why does everyone keep fixating on the fact its a double drop? Just book on the days it operates directly to/from EDI! I'm pretty sure the vast majority of passengers managed to work that one out. Only those desperate to get to EDI on the days it operates PEK-DUB-EDI would book on that flight, and even then they probably got there quicker than connecting at a hub.
Why bother at all with it then?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

As for the United / Delta examples - i'm not convinced. Look at Manchester, with its much larger catchment, yet it's still narrowbody central to the US. With the exception of the United flight which upgraded this year, it's all 757s. These aircraft are perfect for operating flights to the UK, freeing up widebodies for flights further in to Europe.
Not quite, the Delta JV has seen Virgin having a B744 / A330 base which is now the same size as Gatwick. American fly the A332 on PHL leaving United with a seasonal B757 / B767 mix.
But yes, fair point about the inbound passenger profile.

[CabinCrewe]

leaving United with s seasonal B757 / B767 mix.
When is the 757 next planned for UA from MAN?

[VickersVicount]

LGW Takeover
​​​​​​​ (https://worldairlinenews.com/)Could EDI be next?

[inOban]

Why bother at all with it then?
I can only think that the Chinese tourists are on a two-centre holiday to both Scotland and Ireland. It makes no sense to the ordinary traveller.
Has anyone noticed how slack is the schedule? It's allowed 10 hours and 50 minutes eastbound, AIRC, but usually takes just 9, arriving in Beijing about 3am.

[VickersVicount]

Any clever people calculated the approx loads for PEK and DOH from the latest CAA stats?

[tartan 201]

Any clever people calculated the approx loads for PEK and DOH from the latest CAA stats?

With credit to a poster on another forum they were 33% and 66% (or 1,516 and 11,523 in absolute terms) respectively. However I understand that the PEK number excludes those who route DUB<>PEK and hitherto they've usually been a little fewer than the number that route EDI<>PEK.

It'll l be a few months before the Irish CSO make their March 2019 data available. The latest data available for DUB<>PEK is from January 2019 which shows 1,356 passengers compared to 1,666 for EDI<>PEK - I understand that equated to 68% of seats occupied that month on the legs to and from PEK.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Any clever people calculated the approx loads for PEK and DOH from the latest CAA stats?

Are the April Stats out? What are the EDI figures?

any link available? Cheers

[PDXCWL45]

Are the April Stats out? What are the EDI figures?

any link available? Cheers
March only.

[inOban]

The date when edi release their numbers is variable
One month they forgot entirely.

[Plane mad 134]

Loganairs cake for the new services was voted the best by anna.aero and is also on the airports twitter.

[VickersVicount]

they forgot entirely.
I'm sure it wasn't forgetfulness, rather time pressure, logistics, collation and staffing. They won't be concerned about whether we can see it 'on time'.

[inOban]

Fair enough. Keeping us happy isn't their prime function.

[tartan 201]

April '19 passengers up 4.3% but the press release (http://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/growth-in-april)seems to be preparing the ground for, at best, a reduction in the rate of growth noting that "Winning routes is hard but keeping them is even harder. And when you continue to implement the highest aviation tax in the world, you make it even more difficult".

[inOban]

April '19 passengers up 4.3% but the press release (http://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/growth-in-april)seems to be preparing the ground for, at best, a reduction in the rate of growth noting that "Winning routes is hard but keeping them is even harder. And when you continue to implement the highest aviation tax in the world, you make it even more difficult".
The big hit will be in the June figures, when FR virtually abandon flights to STN. So far there has been the loss of Norwegian and reduced seasons/ flights by Iberia Express and a few others. I would be surprised if there is any growth at all in view of the weak holiday market.

[willy wombat]

Do you have to take a special course in whinging to work in EDI management?

[A350Saltire]

Do you have to take a special course in whinging to work in EDI management?

They make a good point though. A promise was made by the SG that has not been kept which makes everyone's life in tourism, air industry etc that little bit harder.

They could just sit and say nothing but that gets you nowhere.

[SWBKCB]

A politician didn't keep a promise? Bless...

By going on about it, surely they're weakening their position as it implies the only way they would get/keep business is a lower tax regime?

[willy wombat]

Exactly. You have to plan a business based on facts, not try to change the facts to suit your business. In the current climate APD is not going away or being reduced, manifesto or no manifesto. I suspect the next casualty of the green lobby will be LHR RW3.

[A350Saltire]

A politician didn't keep a promise? Bless...

By going on about it, surely they're weakening their position as it implies the only way they would get/keep business is a lower tax regime?

Keep the pressure on I say. If we want more direct flights to Scotland we have to, then we won’t need a third runway at LHR.

[Plane mad 134]

Tui now added new route to Naples for S20 1x weekly on a Monday along with 4 round trip flights to both Orlando Sandford and Cancun same as last year.

[magruder1980]

Simple question - how long does it take ot get into the city center using the tram from the airport?

[Porrohman]

It's disappointing that TUI don't offer a longer season of flights to Orlando. There are a huge number of pax that take indirect routings from EDI to Orlando as well as many who use flights from Glasgow, Newcastle, Manchester and Birmingham.

[A350Saltire]

Nice to see DL switching to a year round service on JFK-EDI and the start of the new BOS-EDI service today.

[GLAEDI]

Simple question - how long does it take ot get into the city center using the tram from the airport?

The tram takes 35mins & the 100 bus takes 30 mins. Depending what time you arrive at the airport, i’d Always take the 100. It stops less and is more direct route into town. Also closer to the terminal.

[CabinCrewe]

Nice to see DL switching to a year round service on JFK-EDI and the start of the new BOS-EDI service today.

Seems the Winter DL JFK frequency just been cut again, wonder if that bodes well....:confused: Don't think UA mid winter was ever full as it was.

[A350Saltire]

Seems the Winter DL JFK frequency just been cut again, wonder if that bodes well....:confused: Don't think UA mid winter was ever full as it was.

Two year-round services to the US though (even if DL will be 4 per week in Jan and Feb) is good going.

[inOban]

It very much depends on the time of day. Last time I took a bus out of the airport it took 30 minutes to get out of the airport on to the M8.

[tartan 201]

Seems the Winter DL JFK frequency just been cut again, wonder if that bodes well....:confused: Don't think UA mid winter was ever full as it was.

What frequency cut are you referring to? DL operated five weekly in winter 18-19, with no flights during January and February. This coming winter it's on sale as daily but four weekly during January and February, so a substantial increase in the number of seats. DL spokesperson quoted in today's Scotsman as saying that the route does 'really, really well' (source (https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/delta-to-fly-year-round-between-edinburgh-and-new-york-1-4933421/amp)).

UA's load factors from November 18 to March 19 (with credit to a poster elsewhere) were respectively: 88%, 94%, 86%, 90% and 93%.

[inOban]

And last winter was the first time UA was daily throughout. Previously the Wednesday flight was dropped during the winter months.

[A350Saltire]

What frequency cut are you referring to? DL operated five weekly in winter 18-19, with no flights during January and February. This coming winter it's on sale as daily but four weekly during January and February, so a substantial increase in the number of seats. DL spokesperson quoted in today's Scotsman as saying that the route does 'really, really well' (source (https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/delta-to-fly-year-round-between-edinburgh-and-new-york-1-4933421/amp)).

UA's load factors from November 18 to March 19 (with credit to a poster elsewhere) were respectively: 88%, 94%, 86%, 90% and 93%.

Substantial increase this winter. Some people revel in negativity around EDI even when it doesn’t exist.

[inOban]

Remember there were Norwegian flights last winter.

[Union Jack]

New car park attendant "throws" himself into the job, according to https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4292266/taxi-driver-edinburgh-airport-gordon-dewar-police-charged/

Jack

[Plane mad 134]

All seems to have gone quiet so with airlines adding more new frequencys and routes from Edinburgh, does anyone have any rumours?

I heard Cathay were still talking about Hong Kong and Tui have some new routes in the pipeline, but we will have to wait and see if anything comes to fruition, I have also heard grumblings about Icelandair once the Max issue is fixed and United to make Chicago year round, but once again its just wait and see at the moment.

Best regards.

[ROC10]

All seems to have gone quiet so with airlines adding more new frequencys and routes from Edinburgh, does anyone have any rumours?

I heard Cathay were still talking about Hong Kong and Tui have some new routes in the pipeline, but we will have to wait and see if anything comes to fruition, I have also heard grumblings about Icelandair once the Max issue is fixed and United to make Chicago year round, but once again its just wait and see at the moment.

Best regards.

Any more info on TUI rumours? I know they are adding NAP next year and bringing back AYT (was done before) but that is replacing RHO which will be dropped. Would be nice to see regular long-haul or even just a slightly longer season of it, or more short-haul flights. Surely EDI could sustain at least a second based aircraft soon enough?

[tartan 201]

have also heard grumblings about Icelandair once the Max issue is fixed and United to make Chicago year round, but once again its just wait and see at the moment.



Chicago operated until the 27th October last year but is on sale only until the 4th October this year. That doesn't strike me as the actions of an airline considering operating the route year round.

[mullac30]

Chicago operated until the 27th October last year but is on sale only until the 4th October this year. That doesn't strike me as the actions of an airline considering operating the route year round.
They did start the route earlier this year though.

[tartan 201]

They did start the route earlier this year though.

True, but only by five days (started 30/4 this year, 5/5 last) so I think my point still stands.

[CabinCrewe]

rumours
I heard
heard grumblings
Not much to go on there. Where are all these theories coming from?

[EDIgo]

Not much to go on there. Where are all these theories coming from?

The same place planes fly 👍

[Plane mad 134]

I heard the rumours from some friends at the airport but cant say any more than that.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Isn’t transatlantic ORD in winter headwinds pushing the limits on B757 range? When AA used one on MAN-ORD, reliability tanked due to frequent fuel stops.

[nighthawk117]

Isn’t transatlantic ORD in winter headwinds pushing the limits on B757 range? When AA used one on MAN-ORD, reliability tanked due to frequent fuel stops.

Yep. They'll need to upgrade to a 767 if they want to operate reliably during the winter. With American and Delta now operating during the winter - i'm not sure there's going to be enough demand to justify it. We'll see though.

[VickersVicount]

Whats the latest on Hainan to PEK - Has it eventually been ditched? Not accepting direct flight bookings for W19 or S20

[Mister Geezer]

New car park attendant "throws" himself into the job, according to https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4292266/taxi-driver-edinburgh-airport-gordon-dewar-police-charged/

Jack

Whilst the facts could always be embellished slightly by the press but if Gordon Dewar did throw himself at the taxi whilst it was trying to move, then not only it is absurd behaviour for a CEO of an airport to conduct themselves in such a manner but it's unsafe too.

A quick word with the taxi driver would have sufficed to explain who he was and that he had taken a photo of the rear of the taxi to show where he was parked as well as the registration and taxi plate. Furthermore, he would be passing the photo on to the police and leave it to them to handle the matter, as they wish.

[VickersVicount]

Nice to see the smaller EK 772LR operating instead of the 773 for a change.

[tartan 201]

Nice to see the smaller EK 772LR operating instead of the 773 for a change.
Also nice to see the larger DL 763 operating instead of the 752 for a change.

[Plane.Silly]

Still no sign of Jet2 for Summer 2020, anyone know whats going on?
This is very late for them, normally (based on last few summer seasons) the whole programme is on, with any new routes by the end of May. we're now 2 weeks past that point :(

[Bearpit]

Looks like Jet2 on sale now for S20 including new service to Izmir on Tuesday - nice addition given the popularity of Turkey just now - not sure there has ever been a flight to Izmir before from Edinburgh?

[inOban]

As far as I can see, two dropped routes (Almeria and Kefalonia, I think), a few dropped rotations to Spain, but increased flights to the Canaries and the existing Turkish destinations

[Plane mad 134]

Yes looking at Jet2 S20 in June/July there is 84 weekly flights, 2 of those are away based and 84 weekly flights means 6 aircraft doing 2 rotations a day, so I expect at least 2 more new routes or frequency increases.

[Flap40]

Remember that Tuesday is usually programmed for one less aircraft due to the risk of the Monday FNC still being somewhere down south trying to get the pax to FNC due weather.

[LBAflyer22]

Remember that Tuesday is usually programmed for one less aircraft due to the risk of the Monday FNC still being somewhere down south trying to get the pax to FNC due weather.

Jet2 have, or aim to have, a handful of standby aircraft. Leaving gaps on a Tuesday is commercial suicide especially from an airline which has more standby aircraft then any UK airline. Not only that - how many times has FNC gone wrong in the last 6 months? Hardly ever. Why loose potential revenue due to the "potential" of something go wrong in your programme?

[ROC10]

Jet2 have, or aim to have, a handful of standby aircraft. Leaving gaps on a Tuesday is commercial suicide especially from an airline which has more standby aircraft then any UK airline. Not only that - how many times has FNC gone wrong in the last 6 months? Hardly ever. Why loose potential revenue due to the "potential" of something go wrong in your programme?

This is also my thinking. Do they actually do the above this year? Surely if they were that concerned about FNC going wrong they just wouldn’t operate it? I doubt it would be so detrimental to just fly somewhere else instead, especially in the height of summer.

[irishlad06]

This is also my thinking. Do they actually do the above this year? Surely if they were that concerned about FNC going wrong they just wouldn’t operate it? I doubt it would be so detrimental to just fly somewhere else instead, especially in the height of summer.

Tuesday having 1 less aircraft programmed to fly has nothing to do with FNC. It’s a maintenance day - 1 aircraft goes through a check which is rotated between aircraft each week. On some occasions this maintenance can be cancelled at short notice when there is mass disruption within the fleet however this is only ever really during the winter months. Normally during the summer due to the aircraft flying so much the maintenance needs to happen.

[inOban]

So the only slack in this summer's schedule is on Monday, when one aircraft does a single rotation rather than two.

[ROC10]

So the only slack in this summer's schedule is on Monday, when one aircraft does a single rotation rather than two.

According to FR24, all six operate two return flights (of course there is a chance that FR24 could be wrong).

[inOban]

I may be wrong but I thought that the Zakynthos flight didn't leave until mid morning and was its only rotation that day. Or an additional flight starts tomorrow?

[jensdad]

Tuesday having 1 less aircraft programmed to fly has nothing to do with FNC. It’s a maintenance day - 1 aircraft goes through a check which is rotated between aircraft each week. On some occasions this maintenance can be cancelled at short notice when there is mass disruption within the fleet however this is only ever really during the winter months. Normally during the summer due to the aircraft flying so much the maintenance needs to happen.
Thanks for clearing that up, Irishlad. I was thinking that was a very strange way of running things: Basically dedicating two aircraft to one rotation!

[inOban]

I may be wrong but I thought that the Zakynthos flight didn't leave until mid morning and was its only rotation that day. Or an additional flight starts tomorrow?
I wasn't wrong! 5 a/c leave in the first wave, and have a second rotation in the afternoon (one of which is the Funchal flight). The sixth has a single duty, to Zakynthos at 11.05.

[ROC10]

I wasn't wrong! 5 a/c leave in the first wave, and have a second rotation in the afternoon (one of which is the Funchal flight). The sixth has a single duty, to Zakynthos at 11.05.

I’m guessing this is from Jet2’s website? FR24 must have an additional flight that shouldn’t be there.

From FR24:
AM PMI
AM AGP
AM FAO
AM ALC
AM NAP
AM ZTH

PM FNC
PM HER
PM MAH
PM LPA
PM REU
PM GRO

EDIT: upon checking, the GRO flight seems to be operated by a MAN aircraft that positions up, operates EDI-GRO-EDI, then positions back to MAN. Seems a little inefficient?

[Plane.Silly]

EDIT: upon checking, the GRO flight seems to be operated by a MAN aircraft that positions up, operates EDI-GRO-EDI, then positions back to MAN. Seems a little inefficient?
I Agree, having 2 positioning sectors will no doubt cost a few grand. Surely an easier option (schedule permitting) would be to fly MAN-GRO-EDI-GRO-MAN.
based on published schedules/ estimates, a MANGRO sector is 2hr 30m and EDIGRO is 2hr 50m, so once turnarounds factored in, not enough for 1 crew to operate all 4.
1st crew: MAN-GRO-EDI
2nd crew: EDI-GRO-MAN
Cost of taxis to move crew to/from no doubt be less than positioning costs.

If they have to re-position the aircraft for the EDIGRO rotation, the aircraft would surely be free to do something like that.
Having said that i wouldn't want to be one of that crew facing a 3hr taxi ride home. Swings and Roundabouts methinks

[Plane mad 134]

I wonder if Easyjet will announce some new services for W19/S20 seeing as they are celebrating 25 years at the airport, would be nice to see them expanding again.

[TheGeordielad]

I wonder if Easyjet will announce some new services for W19/S20 seeing as they are celebrating 50 years at the airport, would be nice to see them expanding again.
celebrating 50 years? As EasyJet is only 24yr Old do you mean 25 Summers and 25 Winters (Including the upcoming seasons)?

[ld0595]

Unlikely given that Easyjet have only been around for 24 years...

[Flightrider]

I thought exactly that!

Any growth is likely to be modest - probably just the one new route for this winter. .Follow one of the Bard's more famous works starring two characters from the phonetic alphabet and see where you end up.

[willy wombat]

Or even "Two Gentlemen of ………"

[VickersVicount]

Do we know the nature of the diversion of TOM EDI-ACE to GLA just after take-off?

[tartan 201]

Busiest May ever (passenger numbers up 4.3%), but perhaps clouds on the horizon?

https://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/come-what-may

[inOban]

With loss of four FR flights per day to STN, I think they'll be lucky to show any growth this month. Although Int'l seems strong in spite of the loss of Wow and Norwegian.

Last time I checked the fares for direct flights to New York were eyewatering, compared with flights via another hub.

[willy wombat]

That would suggest the direct New York flights are doing well

[inOban]

Bird strike.

[VickersVicount]

That would suggest the direct New York flights are doing well
Yet no up-gauged 767s. Have the loads previously suggested the 757s are running full?

[willy wombat]

Obviously I don't know but it might well be better to run pretty full 757s at a juicy yield rather than have to drop prices to fill a 767.

[tartan 201]

With loss of four FR flights per day to STN, I think they'll be lucky to show any growth this month. Although Int'l seems strong in spite of the loss of Wow and Norwegian.

The growth in May 2019 of 4.3% to 1,381,187 passengers equates to an increase of 56,943 passengers. The CAA data for June 2018 showed 66,903 passengers travelled between Edinburgh and Stansted. I don't know how that is split between the two airlines on the route (EZY and RYR). However looking at the CAA data for winter 2018-19 shows monthly increases of c37,000 - 48,000 on the EDI<>STN route; most, if not all, of those increases could be attributed to RYR's return to the route after not operating it in winter 2017-18 so we can expect RYR's substantial reduction in frequency to result in around 40,000 - 45,000 fewer monthly passengers for the remainder of this summer and slightly more in the upcoming winter (since they drop the route completely then).

I don't think the reduction in Norwegian capacity will affect the numbers too much. The now-removed EDI based aircraft routed EDI>OSL>EDI>SWF/PVD>EDI. EDI<>OSL is now done by an OSL-based aircraft so it's only the loss of the EDI<>SWF/PVD sectors that would effect a reduction in passenger numbers, along with the dropping of the non-based EDI<>Spain routes (but they amounted to only a handful of rotations per week as I recall). DL's new EDI<>BOS service will likely offset most of the loss of the EDI<>SWF/PVD routes and increases in capacity from QR (from next month) and EK (daily compared to the mainly five-weekly Etihad it replaced) may offset the capacity lost by Wow and Norwegain's Spanish services.

All that said, it's obviously borderline if there will be any growth in each of the remaining months this summer; if there is it'll likely be anaemic of perhaps a few thousand and so less than 1%. Even if growth does continue during this summer, I suspect that there'll be at least one month during the upcoming winter when there is year-on-year reduction in passengers. The airport's press release ("We do, however, remain cautious as airlines plan their winter and summer schedules for next year and look at new and existing routes as well as capacity on those routes") is clearly managing expectations that there may be reductions in passenger numbers some months during the upcoming winter and summer schedules. Given that GIP are reported to be looking to sell their shareholding in EDI, I wonder what such gloomy monthly messages are doing to the potential sale price?

[inOban]

On Skyscanner I could fly next Wednesday to new York for less than £400 using Norwegian via CPN, and for about £500 by other routes, eg Dublin. A direct flight would cost over £1500.

[GoEDI]

There's still enough increases on other routes to keep slow growth of around 2-3% going for S19 I reckon. W19/20 is certainly looking challenging at this stage, likely to be largely flat at best. I think there's a good chance STN will return once the MAX issues are resolved and deliveries start rolling in to FR...

No surprise on NYC, there's under capacity on that route during peak summer now given it's lost 3x daily flights in the past couple of years. Supply/demand is a balancing act. I do think there were too many seats, but I now believe it's gone too far in the other direction. Why no wide bodies? DL have chosen to add BOS, and UA are still establishing IAD, instead of putting more capacity on NYC at this stage.

It would come as no surprise to me to see EWR/JFK upgraded to larger aircraft over the next couple of years when DL/UA are next ready to review capacity at EDI. With UA now sending B767s to LIS and MAN, I believe EDI is the only year round EWR route still on B757. With that in mind I'd say it's a matter of when, not if. DL have already used B763s a couple of times this season, not sure if due to pax loads though.

[Plane mad 134]

Been reported now that Hainan have lost their licence for the Beijing to Edinburgh/Dublin route according to the CAAC. Maybe time for a new operator?

[ld0595]

Been reported now that Hainan have lost their licence for the Beijing to Edinburgh/Dublin route according to the CAAC. Maybe time for a new operator?

Can you provide a source please?

[Plane mad 134]

Can you provide a source please?

Twitter: @SeanM1997
@Airlineroute
More to follow from CAAC soon.

[tartan 201]

Can you provide a source please?

Here: http://www.caac.gov.cn/XXGK/XXGK/TZTG/201906/t20190620_197015.html The PDF document shows 'logout licence' against the route. You may wish to download it then upload it to Google translate.

[edi_local]

Seems to be a fair few China-Europe routes there. I see Hainan to MAN is for the chop too.

[tartan 201]

Seems to be a fair few China-Europe routes there. I see Hainan to MAN is for the chop too.
I'm not seeing that MAN is for the chop as it still shows 45% of the license rights being used. I interpret the Google Translate-d document to mean that it's just those that say 'logout license' or have an 'all rights usage rate' of 0% that are for the chop.

[edi_local]

I'm not seeing that MAN is for the chop as it still shows 45% of the license rights being used. I interpret the Google Translate-d document to mean that it's just those that say 'logout license' or have an 'all rights usage rate' of 0% that are for the chop.

I must have misunderstood the document. I thought everything on there was facing the axe.

How can EDI/DUB/PEK be classed as 0% usage though when it's clearly been running and carrying passengers and cargo?

[nighthawk117]

There's still enough increases on other routes to keep slow growth of around 2-3% going for S19 I reckon. W19/20 is certainly looking challenging at this stage, likely to be largely flat at best. I think there's a good chance STN will return once the MAX issues are resolved and deliveries start rolling in to FR...

No surprise on NYC, there's under capacity on that route during peak summer now given it's lost 3x daily flights in the past couple of years. Supply/demand is a balancing act. I do think there were too many seats, but I now believe it's gone too far in the other direction. Why no wide bodies? DL have chosen to add BOS, and UA are still establishing IAD, instead of putting more capacity on NYC at this stage.

It would come as no surprise to me to see EWR/JFK upgraded to larger aircraft over the next couple of years when DL/UA are next ready to review capacity at EDI. With UA now sending B767s to LIS and MAN, I believe EDI is the only year round EWR route still on B757. With that in mind I'd say it's a matter of when, not if. DL have already used B763s a couple of times this season, not sure if due to pax loads though.

Not all of the traffic is heading to New York, a lot will be carrying on to other destinations. This traffic is now being adequately served by transfers through Boston, Washington and Chicago. Just because the number of seats to New York has decreased, doesn't mean there's now a shortage of capacity - the transfers will have moved elsewhere, freeing up capacity for New York bound passengers.

Even if there is a shortage of seats, increasing capacity is a difficult balancing act, it's not as simple as just putting a 767 on the route. To do so, you need to remove the 767 from another route. So first you need to find a route that is struggling and down gauge it to a 757, or a route that is doing well and can be up-gauged to a 777/787.. but only if you drop a 777/787 destination etc. Given the lack of range of the 757, this is going to limit your options on where you can send it in the first case.

The second option is to add another daily 757 flight, like they used to. However, Newark is at capacity and there are no spare slots available, so to do this will involve dropping an existing route. You've also then got to factor in what else that slot could be used for - are they going to make more money on a second daily EDI, or could they make more launching a new route or increasing frequency to somewhere else in Europe.

The final option is to keep things the way they are, and keep charging higher fares.

You can't just think about EDI on it's own, and what it needs. There's only so many aircraft to go around, so any changes will need changes elsewhere in the system to accommodate it.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The key problem with UNITED using a C30WY184 B763 to replace a C16WY153 B752 is that for a highly seasonal VFR market like Scotland, you're adding 20% more WY but a whopping 88% more seats in Business and Polaris Business at that. It's not like Air Canada Rouge where end of life B763s are being used to serve secondary markets, the UNITED B763 fleet is being refershed with their latest product for key business markets.

The B764 gives a 31.4% boost in seats in WY against the B752 whereas Business jumps by 144%, these are premium heavy birds.

[VentureGo]

also posted on Newcastle thread -

Notice a couple of Edinburgh bound flights are diverting into Newcastle after leaving holding pattern just south of Edinburgh, with more holding over Southern Edinburgh area.
Currently easyJet 807 from Gatwick and easyJet 3385 from Venice are on NCL approach.

ref. FR24

[Plane mad 134]

Diverted because of severe weather which was Thunder and lightning plus severe rain and hail with some freak wind gusts too on approach.

[inOban]

Wasn't today meant to be the start of the Great Dane/Aalborg flights?

[VickersVicount]

Was advertised as 24th June launch. Has been operating charters to Palma, Chania, Bourgas etc instead, and with same flight numbers.
Mmm.

[Plane mad 134]

We will have to wait and see if they actually operate the flights, I know flights are still available for booking and they are also awaiting a 2nd aircraft to join the fleet so maybe they are short on aircraft.

Also a question to anyone who may have information regarding what airlines have applied for slots for W19/20 and if there are any new airlines, I would appreciate it very much if you could either share on here or dm me, thanks in advance.

[Plane mad 134]

2 new Tui routes were announced today for W19 and S20

Edinburgh - Malaga Eff 01MAR20 1x weekly B737 MAX8
Edinburgh - Toulouse Eff 29DEC19 - 08MAR20 1x weekly B737 MAX8

[inOban]

These surely replace chartered BACF flights. Given that the single based a/c is intensively used, does the malaga flight replace another rotation, eg to Palma?

[ROC10]

These surely replace chartered BACF flights. Given that the single based a/c is intensively used, does the malaga flight replace another rotation, eg to Palma?

I don’t think they do. They are operated by TOM for March and April before reverting to BA in May. I don’t believe the flight operated in Mar/Apr before so at least that seems to be an increase, along with TLS. Looks like during the ski season the aircraft will operate to TLS on Sundays (can’t see anything else as of yet) and then in March will switch to AGP. At the end of March a LCA flight also starts in the afternoon. We mustn’t forget though that LPA is completely gone this year, meaning there are no flights on Mondays at all for W19. On the up side, PFO looks to be increased with only January having no flights on Wednesdays.

[inOban]

I see that the Great Dane flight from Aalborg is on tomorrow's schedule, arr 07.45

[Sk1schoolsam]

There might still be hope for the Hainan China flight....

https://dailybusinessgroup.co.uk/2019/06/hainan-airlines-edinburgh-flights-under-negotiation/