Edinburgh-3

[Plane mad 134]

Regarding Hainan, at least they will be back next summer and there is a possibility they may still continue through the winter or as the article said have a partner airline operate the route instead. So not all bad.

Also Finnair to increase Helsinki up to 6x weekly during the winter on E190.

[ATNotts]

Regarding Hainan, at least they will be back next summer and there is a possibility they may still continue through the winter or as the article said have a partner airline operate the route instead. So not all bad.

Also Finnair to increase Helsinki up to 6x weekly during the winter on E190.

Partner airline = code share!

[A350Saltire]

Regarding Hainan, at least they will be back next summer and there is a possibility they may still continue through the winter or as the article said have a partner airline operate the route instead. So not all bad.

Also Finnair to increase Helsinki up to 6x weekly during the winter on E190.

Finnair to HEL is a great link. Generally the quickest way to Asia. Plus they have A350s.

[nebpor]

Finnair to HEL is a great link. Generally the quickest way to Asia. Plus they have A350s.

Thanks for this, heading to Seoul soon and great circle shows Scandi is the fastest route ... but I didn't think of Finnair!

[Plane mad 134]

And today was the start of Qatar going 10x weekly.

[Rutan16]

Partner airline could either be code share via Brussels ( already available on no op days via SN feed) or transfer to HNA lower cost division Capital and that happens to be under more direct control of CAISSA transferring risk to another spread sheet.
Capital would probably operate just one flight per week but using an A332 and might just work well imho.

[Navpi]

Possibly not scientific but over the next week on the days when the Hainan does not operate Skyscanner punts all passengers via Flybe to Manchester.

Maybe that will be the option in Winter.

[Asturias56]

Finnair are very good and transferring at Helsinki is really easy - they've run Far eastern flights for decades

[GoEDI]

Not all of the traffic is heading to New York, a lot will be carrying on to other destinations. This traffic is now being adequately served by transfers through Boston, Washington and Chicago. Just because the number of seats to New York has decreased, doesn't mean there's now a shortage of capacity - the transfers will have moved elsewhere, freeing up capacity for New York bound passengers.

Even if there is a shortage of seats, increasing capacity is a difficult balancing act, it's not as simple as just putting a 767 on the route. To do so, you need to remove the 767 from another route. So first you need to find a route that is struggling and down gauge it to a 757, or a route that is doing well and can be up-gauged to a 777/787.. but only if you drop a 777/787 destination etc. Given the lack of range of the 757, this is going to limit your options on where you can send it in the first case.

The second option is to add another daily 757 flight, like they used to. However, Newark is at capacity and there are no spare slots available, so to do this will involve dropping an existing route. You've also then got to factor in what else that slot could be used for - are they going to make more money on a second daily EDI, or could they make more launching a new route or increasing frequency to somewhere else in Europe.

The final option is to keep things the way they are, and keep charging higher fares.

You can't just think about EDI on it's own, and what it needs. There's only so many aircraft to go around, so any changes will need changes elsewhere in the system to accommodate it.

Stats for May are not reflecting this. UA and DL both still rammed on NYC, averaging 93% full for the month. That's despite PHL and ORD operating all month, plus IAD and BOS joining later on.

As for fleet rotation, I believe UA's strategy now is to get the B75Ws off most the transatlantic routes sooner rather than later anyway. I'd say that's backed up by the equipment changes made on routes over the past year or two. B78X deliveries are freeing up widebodies too. I don't think it'd be much of a stretch for them, they've managed it on every other year round B75W route out of EWR so far.

EDI is just one small part of a bigger picture, of course. It just wouldn't surprise me if the change is made at some point down the line, given the general trend being observed elsewhere on UA's Euro network...

[A350Saltire]

I agree with you GoEDI, the US routes out of EDI appear to be performing really well in May at least. The next logical step is increased NYC capacity and the most likely way that will be provided IMHO is with a 767.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The key problem with UNITED using a C30WY184 B763 to replace a C16WY153 B752 is that for a highly seasonal VFR market like Scotland, you're adding 20% more WY but a whopping 88% more seats in Business and Polaris Business at that. It's not like Air Canada Rouge where end of life B763s are being used to serve secondary markets, the UNITED B763 fleet is being refershed with their latest product for key business markets.

The B764 gives a 31.4% boost in seats in WY against the B752 whereas Business jumps by 144%, these are premium heavy birds.
Not quite sure how a UNITED 767 works in EDI?
The B767-300ER fleet is being refurbished and re-deployed into key business markets, whereas the B757 was until recently, a reliable work horse with the range and right size of capacity. By way of comparison, DUB gets a B757 to IAD and ORD but EWR gets a high density domestic configured B772 with a domestic First rather than Polaris, as does MAD.
In summer peak, I suspect that's the way forward in EDI, however if that's too much capacity for the Scottish market, and B757 availability becomes a growing issue, then there is a way to manage that, and that's by dropping GLA entirely. As the B757s are retired and redeployed, some of the less profitable flying will end and comparing GLA/EDI it's clear where the focus lies nowadays.
Now I am not just setting out to be contentious as GLA was my old local, but if UNITED are keen on EWR-Scotland that might be the best way given their fleet constraints cos the B767 just doesn't fit the market whereas those B777s are in the old tradition of the Scottish market of flying paid for wide bodies into leisure markets over the summer. I am thinking of Air Canada flying daily on YYZ-GLA and of course NWO flying daily B747s into PIK, it was always the -100s and not the shiney new 200s :)

[Plane mad 134]

It seems like as you say the best course of action would be a B777-200 peak summer and a B767 possibly during the winter, If the B757 was to stay longer I would think they would go back to 2x daily instead of upgauging, but since they are retiring the B757 It would be logical to use a B777-200 or B767-300.

[A350Saltire]

757 is fine on EWR through winter, 767 would be useful to boost capacity to NYC during the peak season. I do not think we need a 777 yet.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

My key point is the B763 is not suitable for Scotland due to the high % Premium offering. It’s got nowhere near enough seats IMHO, interestingly MAN-EWR has gone for the larger B767-400ER.

[chaps1954]

Think that is because the loads are pretty good out of MAN

[GoEDI]

Not quite sure how a UNITED 767 works in EDI?
The B767-300ER fleet is being refurbished and re-deployed into key business markets, whereas the B757 was until recently, a reliable work horse with the range and right size of capacity. By way of comparison, DUB gets a B757 to IAD and ORD but EWR gets a high density domestic configured B772 with a domestic First rather than Polaris, as does MAD.
In summer peak, I suspect that's the way forward in EDI, however if that's too much capacity for the Scottish market, and B757 availability becomes a growing issue, then there is a way to manage that, and that's by dropping GLA entirely. As the B757s are retired and redeployed, some of the less profitable flying will end and comparing GLA/EDI it's clear where the focus lies nowadays.
Now I am not just setting out to be contentious as GLA was my old local, but if UNITED are keen on EWR-Scotland that might be the best way given their fleet constraints cos the B767 just doesn't fit the market whereas those B777s are in the old tradition of the Scottish market of flying paid for wide bodies into leisure markets over the summer. I am thinking of Air Canada flying daily on YYZ-GLA and of course NWO flying daily B747s into PIK, it was always the -100s and not the shiney new 200s :)

If we were talking about the premium heavy 167 seat layout, then yes I would agree it's not right for the market. However, I don't think that the standard 214 seat config is too premium heavy. EWR was regularly filling 32J a day in summer until the switch to IAD was made.

It may also depend upon UA's desire to introduce Polaris/Premium Plus to the EDI market in the longer term. EWR-DUB is now served by B78X, which as a brand new aircraft is obviously kitted out with all the latest cabins.

[ld0595]

UAs Manchester loads haven't been that far from Edinburgh's. I did a quick comparison using the CAA stats below and they show that both are reasonably similar every month until the 767 was scheduled at the end of March. I presume the large December difference could be due to Jet 2 Christmas charters.

Edinburgh actually had marginally more Newark passengers traveling between April 2018 to March 2019 if we exclude December. (102,077 vs 100,927, a difference of 1150). Even looking at 2017 when United was flying 2 daily, Edinburgh had around 15,000 Newark passengers which would more than enough to fill a B764. This didn't seem to impact much on Glasgow loads since that was running at about 9,000.

My numbers are only a very quick excel calculation, so please correct me if I'm wildly off! However, I think it's a matter of when and not if United will upgrade to a 767 next year.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/286x337/capture_4fe5e709768d8cc6c199c363c382c80294794058.jpg

[VickersVicount]

Surprised that loads to DOH just in 60's.
But suppose EK will put paid to ongoing increases, though thought with DXB reductions QR might have picked up for May.
Can CWL say their lowish loads are allowed due to there being rammed J cabins or does that only apply to EDI?
1/3 empty A350 must be a delight for long haul

[inOban]

At the present fares, I assume that most of the people who are actually paying their own TATL fares aren't using the direct services, given that fares via Man or Dub are a third of the price. Clearly the airlines must love being able to charge £1500+ and won't want to increase capacity so much that fares collapse.

[GoEDI]

Surprised that loads to DOH just in 60's.
But suppose EK will put paid to ongoing increases, though thought with DXB reductions QR might have picked up for May.
Can CWL say their lowish loads are allowed due to there being rammed J cabins or does that only apply to EDI?
1/3 empty A350 must be a delight for long haul


Is it really that surprising? Outside of peak travel times, QR UK regional loads are never particularly high. So given it was Ramadan during May, one of the quiet times of the year for travel on the ME3, what was really expected? QR has almost zero O&D to DOH in comparison to EK and are still unable to serve DXB, they aren't going to fare any better. Pax figures were up 26% year on year, so they have actually picked up compared to last May.

EDI generally holds up better than the other UK regional routes when it comes to flying fresh air around at quiet travel times, and that was the case again for May. BHX 55%/CWL 43%/MAN 60%/EDI 62%

[Plane mad 134]

It looks like nothing new again for EasyJet W19, has there been any frequency changes?

[Plane mad 134]

Also I have seen that the other airports, London City, Manchester and Birmingham etc. Have had the W19 Initial slot report filed, If anyone can pls share Edinburghs report It would be very much appreciated.

[inOban]

I'm probably wrong, but I think that the airports mentioned all have their slot allocations managed by an organisation called ALC. EDI doesn't use ALC
I've certainly never seen a list of the allocations for EDI.

[Plane mad 134]

I'm probably wrong, but I think that the airports mentioned all have their slot allocations managed by an organisation called ALC. EDI doesn't use ALC
I've certainly never seen a list of the allocations for EDI.

Edinburgh do use ACL for slot allocations, but Edinburgh is rated a level 2 airport, Manchester ect is a Level 3 airport, So level 2 airports need to be requested by a member, You can see at some point in the thread BHX5DME had the sats, hope this helps 😃

[inOban]

Thanks for that. I remember looking on the ALC Site and not seeing the data. What are the criteria for the different levels?

[willy wombat]

It’s ACL not ALC - Airport Coordination Ltd (I used to be a Board member in another life).

[inOban]

https://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/successful-start-to-summer

Only slight growth because of the loss of the Ryanair flights to Stansted, but even international is not growing as fast as last year. (https://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/successful-start-to-summer)

[BAladdy]

Finnair increasing there winter frequency from 3 to 6 x weekly

AY1371 HEL0810 – 0910EDI E90 x247
AY1373 HEL1655 – 1755EDI E90 46

AY1372 EDI0950 – 1430HEL E90 x247
AY1374 EDI1835 – 2310HEL E90 46

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/285491/finnair-increases-dublin-edinburgh-service-in-w19/

[Plane mad 134]

Someone chartered a Carpatair F100 from Glasgow to Edinburgh with the flight being only 20 mins!
https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/someone-charted-plane-fly-glasgow-16581364

[Rob Royston]

Someone chartered a Carpatair F100 from Glasgow to Edinburgh with the flight being only 20 mins!
https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/someone-charted-plane-fly-glasgow-16581364
Not sure if it was not just repositioning as it went from EDI to Milan the following day. It seems to get about a bit doing Faro GLA Milan the day after that. I once flew on a DanAir charter from Prestwick to Abbottsinch in the boom years of the oil industry, due to fog and logistic headaches. We spent a night in a Prestwick hotel after being bussed down there as the plane could not land at GLA, then the second night at home before we got a slot from GLA to LSI.

[ROC10]

Not sure if it was not just repositioning as it went from EDI to Milan the following day. It seems to get about a bit doing Faro GLA Milan the day after that. I once flew on a DanAir charter from Prestwick to Abbottsinch in the boom years of the oil industry, due to fog and logistic headaches. We spent a night in a Prestwick hotel after being bussed down there as the plane could not land at GLA, then the second night at home before we got a slot from GLA to LSI.

Agreed, I reckon from the flight history it probably was just a positioning flight but I may very well be wrong.

[CabinCrewe]

Wasn't it Stormzy after TRNSMT festival? Thought that had been common knowledge

[ROC10]

Wasn't it Stormzy after TRNSMT festival? Thought that had been common knowledge


I certainly haven’t heard anytthing of the sort and can’t find any news to suggest it but could be true.

[Plane mad 134]

Ba Cityflyer will be increasing their frequency to London City by up to 5 flights per week in W19/20.

[4eyed anorak]

It's 5 per week!

Regards 4ea

[iome]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x757/img_20190724_wa0027_bedee9345fecf184417003aae79fec63e94d0229 .jpg
Tight turno onto stand

[Asturias56]

Pah!

Whats MAX THRUST for???

[737aviator]

I don't think that's the first time that's happened with 15B and it won't be the last. Most will circle around to make it a left turn on but ATC doesn't help by usually saying 'taxi stand 15B via L or M'. Lighting at night especially when its raining is extremely challenging on that stand too even from the other side. The grass area needs to go.

[C172Navigator]

Also the lead on line is orange. The who came up with that? Maybe yellow was out that day. I have taxied past the line in the dark when wet, it is almost impossible to see. And why didn't they concrete the corner? I feel sorry for the Veuling crew.

[willy wombat]

Seems standard EDI. Do the deals to maximise the flights and pax but spend as little as possible on the infrastructure.

[CabinCrewe]

Seems standard EDI. Do the deals to maximise the flights and pax but spend as little as possible on the infrastructure.
I presume you are aware of the millions invested over the past few years (as much on infrastructure as anything else such as discount airline deals) with a view to a sale and short term gain?

[willy wombat]

Of course I am but as an ‘airline’ man my whole career I am programmed to work on the premise that all airports designed to maximise income while spending the least they can get away with on infrastructure.

[Bagheera]

I ATC doesn't help by usually saying 'taxi stand 15B via L or M'..

and here was me thinking that because there are issues approaching this stand from either direction ATC were offering the aircrew a degree of flexibility to route to the stand in the manner most comfortable for them.

wont bother in future.

[737aviator]

and here was me thinking that because there are issues approaching this stand from either direction ATC were offering the aircrew a degree of flexibility to route to the stand in the manner most comfortable for them.

wont bother in future.


My point was it should be mandatory to route via M then right on L when inbound to this stand until the design issues are resolved. Based operators have this as mandatory routing in their own briefing packs to crews and most controllers appear familiar with the issues (by the fact they give the choice of routes) but still dangle the carrot. Giving a crew unfamiliar with the airport the choice will mean of course they take L if after landing on RWY24 as it looks the most logical way when glancing at a chart. Just get an ops vehicle round to marshal if for some reason entry via L is required.

[mike current]

My point was it should be mandatory to route via M then right on L when inbound to this stand

Agreed. But that would effectively mean accepting that the taxiway isn't suitable, and maybe that's something that the airport operator aren't prepared to do.

[ld0595]

Anyone know the Aalborg flights are doing?

[CabinCrewe]

Booking engines suggest 'wide open' in most dates in peak August, but very early days with very little local advertisement/promotion
Not most user friendly website and presumably just aimed mainly at inbound (though they should be the ones filling the E90 to the gunnels during the festival).

[Bagheera]

My point was it should be mandatory to route via M then right on L when inbound to this stand until the design issues are resolved. Based operators have this as mandatory routing in their own briefing packs to crews and most controllers appear familiar with the issues (by the fact they give the choice of routes) but still dangle the carrot. Giving a crew unfamiliar with the airport the choice will mean of course they take L if after landing on RWY24 as it looks the most logical way when glancing at a chart. Just get an ops vehicle round to marshal if for some reason entry via L is required.

and my point is that there are issues with this stand whether approaching it from the North or South, hence why there are oversteer markings from both directions. From the North, not following the oversteer markings risks the main gear departing the paved surface, from the South not following the markings risks wingtip clearance against traffic parked on stand 15A.

Not ALL based operators mandate approaching the stand from the South. Some crew of operators that supposedly do mandate it will accept an approach from the North rather than take a delay waiting for outbound aircraft routing via Mike. Some crews will accept it in daylight, dry conditions but not when it’s wet or it’s dark. For these reasons ATC will not mandate a routing via Mike. Instead when an aircraft is due in to 15B, ATC will, subject to traffic, try and keep Lima And Mike clear in order to afford the aircrew some flexibility in their routing and then offer that to the crew.

I am concerned that this flexibility is being interpreted as some sort of complicity or liability in any subsequent incident. If you truly believe this then I suggest you raise it In the appropriate manner where it will be properly considered.

[willy wombat]

Any chance of some kind soul posting an apron chart showing this stand and associated taxiways?

[Bagheera]

Any chance of some kind soul posting an apron chart showing this stand and associated taxiways?

NATS | AIS - Home (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=62&Itemid=111.html)

Follow the link then choose Aircraft Ground movement / parking / docking chart.

The zoomed in area shows the oversteer markings from both directions.

[willy wombat]

Many thanks. It makes it easy to understand the issues.

[4eyed anorak]

June C.A.A. dataset now published on their website.

Regards 4ea

[billyg]

The last EDI - PEK service now confirmed as 10th October !

[inOban]

Any decision as to whether it will return next summer? I read somewhere that Chinese-UK tourism is up 20% this year.

[VickersVicount]

Any decision as to whether it will return next summer?.
Doubt it's coming back. Wrong routing, wrong airline. If it couldn't sustain even half loads with a double drop on cheap fares and block bookings, what would change next year? Though in saying that suspect most pax were inbound Chinese who don't seem bothered by routings or cost and airline is eminently more recognisable at their end. Will be interesting to see how the new DUB standalone route does... MAN not exactly flourishing with theirs.

[ScotsSLF]

Heard a snippet on the radio this morning about Wizzair operating from EDI. Didn’t catch the whole conversation. Is this true? Routes? Impact on GLA?

[Plane mad 134]

Not sure about Wizzair, but there would likely be a small impact on the Glasgow service, if they did start Edinburgh. Also Delta have 90% LF on their Boston route, pretty good for the first season.

[tartan 201]

Four routes:

BUD three weekly from 21 December
GDN three weekly from 19 December
WAW four weekly from 18 December
OTP twice weekly from 23 December

[CabinCrewe]

Four routes:

BUD three weekly from 21 December
GDN three weekly from 19 December
WAW four weekly from 18 December
OTP twice weekly from 23 December
So much for Brexit! Good news, though suspect its the end of GLA routes. Or an anticipation of a big FR reduction?

[inOban]

Three of the four are FR routes and I can't imagine that there's traffic for two airlines.
The economies of Poland and other E European countries have grown under EU membership to the point where they don't need to export their young people, so the business is, surely, mainly family visits. The voids in our labour market are, I believe, being filled from Romania, and from countries outside the EU such Ukraine.

[Plane mad 134]

Yeah, looks like Wizzair smell blood as Ryanair look likely to base cut.

[tartan 201]

Wizzair press release here (https://wizzair.com/en-gb/information-and-services/about-us/news/2019/08/06/wizz-air-s-low-fares-land-at-edinburgh-airport) which says the routes start on the 1st and 2nd November, whereas they're currently on sale starting from the dates in December listed above.

[globaltraveller]

Doubt it's coming back. Wrong routing, wrong airline. If it couldn't sustain even half loads with a double drop on cheap fares and block bookings, what would change next year? Though in saying that suspect most pax were inbound Chinese who don't seem bothered by routings or cost and airline is eminently more recognisable at their end. Will be interesting to see how the new DUB standalone route does... MAN not exactly flourishing with theirs.




That's ashame because, properly marketed, there is surely sustainable demand.

Is the DUB portion continuing in its own right? Surely that would be surprising - were loads not consistently better (even though they were low) on the direct EDI-Beijing sectors? I believe the DUB-Shenzhen route loads are extremely poor too.

[Plane mad 134]

I could see Wizzair once settled in, opening more routes over time, will be interesting to see how this pans out.

[Plane mad 134]

American are due to be making an announcement soon, could Edinburgh have a change, it was leaked they were going to shuffle up everything.

[4eyed anorak]

Quite possibly an upgauge to 763/787 or year round service! The Philly route was the best performing North American route from Edinburgh according to the C.A.A. June stats.
When United upgauged their Newark service at Manchester from a 757 service to a 764 passenger numbers jumped! No doubt the all important yeild might have taken a hit!

Regards 4ea

[positive]

That's ashame because, properly marketed, there is surely sustainable demand.

Is the DUB portion continuing in its own right? Surely that would be surprising - were loads not consistently better (even though they were low) on the direct EDI-Beijing sectors? I believe the DUB-Shenzhen route loads are extremely poor too.
I'd be surprised if either of these Chinese routes operate from Dublin direct over the winter months neither are bookable at the moment....

[EI-BUD]

I'd be surprised if either of these Chinese routes operate from Dublin direct over the winter months neither are bookable at the moment....
In Dublin Cathay is doing well and Hainan launched their Schenzhen route in response to Cathay's Hong Kong. It was a last minute launch without time to get forward bookings in order. Seems like poor planning. The brand doesn't resonate in Ireland, though that doesn't matter the greatest share of the pax will be originating in Asia.

[tartan 201]

So much for Brexit! Good news, though suspect its the end of GLA routes. Or an anticipation of a big FR reduction?




https://twitter.com/BBCDouglasF/status/1159396989899071488

(https://twitter.com/BBCDouglasF/status/1159396989899071488)https://twitter.com/BBCDouglasF/status/1159396989899071488

"Days after WizzAir announced Edinburgh @EDI_Airport links to Gdansk, Warsaw, Budapest + Bucharest, Ryanair says it’s winter schedule will add the Romanian capital and increase services into the other 3. Perhaps the traffic of east European workers will step up post-Brexit."

[Plane mad 134]

Wow, so much for the base being changed.

[CabinCrewe]

American are due to be making an announcement soon, could Edinburgh have a change, it was leaked they were going to shuffle up everything.
So after the big announcement today is there more to come, as seems nothing for EDI.

[Plane mad 134]

Yes there will be another announcement next week, regarding EU route changes, and frequency changes, I also heard this will include Asia routes too.

[globaltraveller]

In Dublin Cathay is doing well and Hainan launched their Schenzhen route in response to Cathay's Hong Kong. It was a last minute launch without time to get forward bookings in order. Seems like poor planning. The brand doesn't resonate in Ireland, though that doesn't matter the greatest share of the pax will be originating in Asia.

Cathay at Edinburgh would be very tantalising, but I agree with other posters that the huge capacity that exists on the Middle Eastern routes from the Scottish market (i.e EDI and GLA) at the moment must surely mitigate against this. The political turbulence in the UK probably doesn't help either.

[ScotsSLF]

https://twitter.com/BBCDouglasF/status/1159396989899071488


https://twitter.com/BBCDouglasF/status/1159396989899071488

"Days after WizzAir announced Edinburgh @EDI_Airport links to Gdansk, Warsaw, Budapest + Bucharest, Ryanair says it’s winter schedule will add the Romanian capital and increase services into the other 3. Perhaps the traffic of east European workers will step up post-Brexit."

More like the standard response from FR to force any upstart competitor off their patch.

[CabinCrewe]

More like the standard response from FR to force any upstart competitor off their patch.
Yes, would be surprised if those schedules for both carriers remain in 12 months time...

[VickersVicount]

A nice little article on the demise of Hainan EDI / DUB services
"industry commentators have noted that it’s never performed that well'
https://simpleflying.com/hainan-cuts-dublin-flights/
Still clinging on to suggestion of a summer only return though

[Porrohman]

Cathay at Edinburgh would be very tantalising, but I agree with other posters that the huge capacity that exists on the Middle Eastern routes from the Scottish market (i.e EDI and GLA) at the moment must surely mitigate against this. The political turbulence in the UK probably doesn't help either.
Hong Kong has a lot of indirect traffic from EDI. In addition, it is on the great circle route and is closer to its midpoint for destinations down under meaning that it should be more economic to operate (less fuel burned carrying fuel) and offer faster journey times than via the ME. Hong Kong would also offer good connections and faster journey times to many Far East destinations and there's a lot of cargo potential. Hopefully it won't be long before Cathay, an alliance partner or an airline with fifth freedom rights, adds Hong Kong from EDI.

[mike current]

I think it's safe to say there'll be no Cathay at EDI. Just like it was easy to predict that Hainan would last a year or 2 max.
2 airlines serving Bucharest and multiple eastern European destinations also are not sustainable.

The economy is slowing down and Brexit hasn't even come yet. I think 2019 is going to be a peak year and be lucky if it flatlines from here.
I hope I am wrong!

[Sk1schoolsam]

I think it's safe to say there'll be no Cathay at EDI. Just like it was easy to predict that Hainan would last a year or 2 max.
2 airlines serving Bucharest and multiple eastern European destinations also are not sustainable.

The economy is slowing down and Brexit hasn't even come yet. I think 2019 is going to be a peak year and be lucky if it flatlines from here.
I hope I am wrong!

Thats a very pessimistic and sceptical outlook. A week pound and new future trading relationships to be sought makes the potential for international visitors and growth higher. The UK May have had one quarter of slow down but that is not the same everywhere. Good things happen if you take a more positive and broader approach. I am not saying that growth at the airport won’t be affected but there is still opportunities as Edinburgh (and Scotland) has a strong international brand and appeal to sell.

[globaltraveller]

I think it's safe to say there'll be no Cathay at EDI. Just like it was easy to predict that Hainan would last a year or 2 max.
2 airlines serving Bucharest and multiple eastern European destinations also are not sustainable.

The economy is slowing down and Brexit hasn't even come yet. I think 2019 is going to be a peak year and be lucky if it flatlines from here.
I hope I am wrong!

I do think that is fairly pessimistic. There is good scope for further long haul development from EDI and it isn’t just from outbound tourists. A lot of the recent traffic declines at EDI coincide with global, rather than localised, recessions. And as the poster above notes a weak Pound is good for the inbounds. It is interesting to note that whilst the number of overseas visitors to the UK, as a whole, is declining in Scotland quite the opposite is happening with good growth In numbers.

Not wanting to start a bunfight but how much is the current political volatility in the UK (if at all) holding back route development at EDI and other airports? It must surely factor into commercial decisions, even if it just means adopting a “wait and see” approach for the moment?

[Rutan16]

Thats a very pessimistic and sceptical outlook. A week pound and new future trading relationships to be sought makes the potential for international visitors and growth higher. The UK May have had one quarter of slow down but that is not the same everywhere. Good things happen if you take a more positive and broader approach. I am not saying that growth at the airport won’t be affected but there is still opportunities as Edinburgh (and Scotland) has a strong international brand and appeal to sell.




Whilst the UK and the Tories are talking the talk re external Trade deals which are simply terms in which B2B can exchange goods and services and what range of duties and taxes are paid - Not the same as FREE TRADE TERMS these are actually somewhat rarer cepting the current rather pleasurable terms with our EU partners and the something like 50+ already completed arrangements in place including those with Japan , Canada , Republic of Korea and most of South America -excepting Brasil and Argentina which are concluded and waiting ratification, much of Africa and even Singapore with New Zealand and Australia near concluded.

Frankly those in high office in the civil service and diplomatic core know this VERY WELL and that the UK WILL be a minnow or even adjunct to future significant trade deals with you know who yeah that devil over in Flanders , nothing like our freedom to choose is it ?

THE ONLY THING WE WIN ( if you even believe that is immigration controls of sorts)

Brexit will not significantly increase international long haul travel to new places imho its more faith based than factual.

Indeed some actual retrenchment is more likely over the medium term to be honest -we are headed towards recession or at best nil growth in 2020 anyway - as is the EU for differing but parallel reasons including usual economic cycle events imho

False cheeriness doesn’t change global economic conditions - What changes things is business confidence profitability investments and ultimately consumer purchasing power all reflected in solid stock equity and gilts traded in the global markets.

Any and or All of those go weak , people begin to loose their livelihood and that’s already visible in the Steel, Auto, Aviation and Marine industries with agriculture deeply worried across the UK and many many others over the last year or so.

Economical cycles swing rather quickly without inflicting unnecessary wounds of your own making, because of a few Lincolnshire labourers and so called fishermen and women taking an irrational disliking to hard working and ambitious Polish arrivals taking their jobs oh and downright lies about federalism and national identity and distant political and democratic accountability.

Rant over sorry

[fjencl]

I see from the Glasgow thread that easyjet from March 2020 will be operating a new route from GLA - BHX - GLA 13 times a week.

Nice to see that there will be competition on the route, perhaps the prices will become cheaper as flybe have been the only operator on that route for years.

Perhaps easyjet will do the same at Edinburgh and put competition on the EDI - BHX - EDI route.

[inOban]

There is competition. It's called the train, every two hours. And brand new ones later this year.

[fjencl]

There is competition. It's called the train, every two hours. And brand new ones later this year.

Airlines, Airports & Routes as this topic is headed !!!! Whats that got to do with Trains every 2 hours, and brand new ones later this year. Surely if i was talking about competition about Train fares then i would be posting my comments on a Rail Forum.

[ScotsSLF]

Airlines, Airports & Routes as this topic is headed !!!! Whats that got to do with Trains every 2 hours, and brand new ones later this year. Surely if i was talking about competition about Train fares then i would be posting my comments on a Rail Forum.

May be frequent but at journey times of over 4 hours and prices between £129 and £310 return then perhaps not quite the competition to the air option that it may appear.

[inOban]

Please don't compare full rate, turn up and go rail fares with pre-booked plane fares. You can travel tomorrow afternoon from Glasgow to Birmingham for about £40.
btw, I was wrong about the new trains, they're for Scotland to Man.

[inOban]

http://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/busiest-ever-month-for-a-scottish-airport

Numbers almost flat from last year due to the fall in domestic numbers, and much slower growth in international business. Still complaining about APD.

[willy wombat]

Has Mr Dewar not noticed that Norwegian has pulled all its Irish transatlantic flights? You can hardly blame APD for that.

[A350Saltire]

Has Mr Dewar not noticed that Norwegian has pulled all its Irish transatlantic flights? You can hardly blame APD for that.

I think he has rightly got to keep banging the drum about APD. Surely it makes sense to keep it for domestic flights where there are other options but relax it for direct international routes where we could see growth to support the economy in Scotland.

There is still so much potential on the international front at EDI which should be supported at all costs.

[willy wombat]

Regardless of whether it makes sense, this banging on about APD is swimming against the environmentalist tide.

[A350Saltire]

Regardless of whether it makes sense, this banging on about APD is swimming against the environmentalist tide.

Yes absolutely, I just think there is a sensible compromise solution.

[nighthawk117]

While it would be great if APD was dropped... Edinburgh airport isnt exactly struggling to attract flights. The airports busier than its ever been, despite the extra taxes.

As others have said, with the growing concern for the environment, its very unlikely these charges are going anywhere any time soon. Its quite likely that other countries will add similar taxes in future, so that should start to balance out.

[inOban]

I notice that there were two Boston flights today. I assume that one was a charter linked to the Festival?

[habs_fan]

I notice that there were two Boston flights today. I assume that one was a charter linked to the Festival?

yesterdays BOS flight was cancelled due to a pluming fault with the DL 757 after the Aircraft arrived in to EDI.

[Asturias56]

Regardless of whether it makes sense, this banging on about APD is swimming against the environmentalist tide.


It's nothing to do with environmentalists and everything to do with the need for the Govt to raise cash

And there's no point in banging on about it as there is zero evidence it has any effect on the numbers of people flying

[inOban]

yesterdays BOS flight was cancelled due to a pluming fault with the DL 757 after the Aircraft arrived in to EDI.

Ah! It was impressive seeing so many a/c flying westwards on flight radar

[CabinCrewe]

Can we presume Hainan might try the Beijing route for a short inbound peak next summer? Though not convinced as even the regular high summer loads have not been anything to write home about this season

[nighthawk117]

And there's no point in banging on about it as there is zero evidence it has any effect on the numbers of people flying

There's plenty of evidence to suggest people are less likely to fly if ticket prices are higher - it's simple economics.

[CabinCrewe]

usually only generating new traffic and growth. Existing travellers will pay what they've always paid and are not deterred by supplements as we've seen with credit cards, fuel tax in the past. Normally taxes hit the low fare cheapo seats, the others don't care.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Yet INV-LHR has done well and gained a night stopper against all expectations because INV has an APD exemption?

[A350Saltire]

There is a place for APD. Having it hindering the development of new Direct international routes from airports like EDI is not it.

This is why Gordon Dewar bangs on about it all the time and is right to do so. It’s his job to do so.

[Asturias56]

Can you point to any scientific evidence that APT affects flights? Other than whining airport and airline bosses?

Far more important is demand and frequency IMHO

[Flightrider]

Yet INV-LHR has done well and gained a night stopper against all expectations because INV has an APD exemption?

I think the APD exemption is only half the story. If what I hear is true, there is rather more "support" for this service than just the exemption from APD which is a matter of public record.

Can you point to any scientific evidence that APT affects flights? Other than whining airport and airline bosses?

The number of domestic air routes has fallen from 244 in 2008 to 190 in 2018, and a further eight have closed since then. The core of this fall has taken place on regional routes (ie outside London) where the number of routes has dropped from 194 to 148 and passenger numbers have fallen by 4% despite overall growth in aviation. The only meaningful train developments in that time have been WCML upgrades which have impacted on the likes of GLA/MAN. The rise in APD levels - and double taxation on domestic return journeys - caused demand to drop. Airlines then had to cut frequency, which further impacted demand, and then the air routes became increasingly unsustainable.

Some of the loss has come from closure of airports like Plymouth, Manston and Blackpool (to regular scheduled services). BOH has lost three of its four domestic links, BRS has lost seven, IOM eight, LBA nine - it's certainly a significant impact.

[SWBKCB]

Is it? Can you prove a link? For example, my organisation which used to be a significant user of domestic flights has banned them on environmental grounds (I know, I know...)

[EIFFS]

Is it? Can you prove a link? For example, my organisation which used to be a significant user of domestic flights has banned them on environmental grounds (I know, I know...)

unless you are crossing water be it the Chanel, the Irish Sea or the North Sea then point 2 point unless you are going Scotland to London or further train can be a competitive factor in the decline, no or little security hassle, plenty of room to work or read and you normally start and end at a city centre.

For example you can do Leeds to LGW in around 3:30 minutes by train with one stop at Stevenage, from arriving at LBA car park to getting land side at LGW will be about the same, apart from there are of course no flights to LGW from Leeds, the LHR service is much the same if you are going from central Leeds to central London.

The LHR service probably exists on a few interline flights.

[CabinCrewe]

Nice to see a one-off up-gauge of the seasonal PHL 757 to 763 today with N433AN doing the honours. 40+ empty seats will be a nice surprise for those going back westbound

[Plane mad 134]

Well its that time of year when airlines announce new routes for summer, any ideas on what new routes may be announced?

[inOban]

Given the state of the UK, European and world economy, it would be a brave airline that is launching new routes, particularly from second-tier airports.

[VickersVicount]

Well its that time of year when airlines announce new routes for summer, any ideas on what new routes may be announced?
Lots of short and medium haul big drops in growth in CAA stats for peak July and longer haul probably near saturated, I doubt you'll see much in way of the exciting new routes or ongoing growth you crave.

[A350Saltire]

Whilst I agree that new routes will be few and far between, the performance of EDI’s routes in July were on the whole pretty impressive, particularly long haul.

EK carried 20,248 passengers with a LF of 92%. Every single US route had a LF of 87% or above and there are six daily routes during peak summer (BOS, ORD, JFK, IAD, EWR and PHL) which is impressive.

Good growth from Finnair to HEL, and TK to IST as well.

[Asturias56]

Probably also high during August as the Festival (s) are on - it's what happens in the dark winter months that are important tho'

[Plane mad 134]

United have celebrated 15 years of Edinburgh service today, they had breakfast and cake while discussing new and existing Edinburgh services, they had a model B767-300 on show as well.

[Plane mad 134]

Jet2 add an extra weekly flight to Lanzarote from February on Mondays increasing from 3x to 4x weekly.

[Plane mad 134]

2 new routes announced today:
·EasyJet to Verona 2x weekly from 7th December, flights will be Tuesday and Saturday
·Ryanair add new Bydgoszcz route 2x weekly from March 2020.

Great news for the airport!

[BAladdy]

2 new routes announced today:
·EasyJet to Verona 2x weekly from 7th December, flights will be Tuesday and Saturday
·Ryanair add new Bydgoszcz route 2x weekly from March 2020.

Great news for the airport!
Do you have a link to the source of your info re Bydgoszcz route. Have done a google search and checked website and Bydgoszcz is not available to book from EDI.

I have however found the article below published today which states FR are launching flights to Bydgoszcz from GLA from March.

https://travelfree.info/ryanair-launches-17-new-routes-from-poland/

[CCFAIRPORT]

Do you have a link to the source of your info re Bydgoszcz route. Have done a google search and checked website and Bydgoszcz is not available to book from EDI.

I have however found the article below published today which states FR are launching flights to Bydgoszcz from GLA from March.

https://travelfree.info/ryanair-launches-17-new-routes-from-poland/

Your link is from last year ! 05/09/2018 abou Summer 2019
On the facebook page of BZG-Port Lotniczy Bydgoszcz you will find the announcement of the new route to EDI :)

[Plane mad 134]

Transavia are to start a new route to Rotterdam in Summer 2020, thanks to @SeanM1997 for the info!

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1169663410637873152?s=19

Edinburgh is on a roll!

[Plane mad 134]

Qatar have went to 2x daily by the looks of it from now until January with the new flight being QR2421 on A350-900, never seen that coming, there was 3 flights today as it joined the normal QR30 and QR32.

[ROC10]

Qatar have went to 2x daily by the looks of it from now until January with the new flight being QR2421 on A350-900, never seen that coming, there was 3 flights today as it joined the normal QR30 and QR32.

I don’t think there were three flights today. I may be wrong but I don’t believe QR2421 is a real flight, at least not for now anyway. It shows as EDI-DOH with the same times as QR30. There is no corresponding DOH-EDI flight though as QR2420 is DOH-BKK as is QR2422 (according to FR24).

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

QR2421 is an fr24 bug, DOH-LHR and MAN are also seeing a load of ghost flights,
Today the QR015 is also ghosting as QR2514 on fr24, not sure what's happening. Some of the ghost flights shadow real ones, others do not.

Perhaps they're invading.....

[sinbad73]

Or coming to sub for BA during strikes?

[Plane mad 134]

Must be a bug on the airport website too :)

[ROC10]

QR2421 doesn’t show on EDI’s website list of departures for today. QR30 shows as departed.

On FR24, QR30 shows scheduled but not departed with the aircraft that operated the inbound QR29 departing as QR2421.

[Plane mad 134]

QR2421 doesn’t show on EDI’s website list of departures for today. QR30 shows as departed.

On FR24, QR30 shows scheduled but not departed with the aircraft that operated the inbound QR29 departing as QR2421.
Look at flight schedules that is where I seen it.

[wub]

I’m on the QR30 at 14:05 on 5th November

[A350Saltire]

I’m on the QR30 at 14:05 on 5th November

Enjoy. The QR A350 is fantastic.

[ROC10]

Look at flight schedules that is where I seen it.

Sorry, I'm not sure which schedules you're referring to.

[wub]

Enjoy. The QR A350 is fantastic.


Thanks, yes, I’ve done a couple of trips on the -900, will be on the -1000 from Doha to Singapore and back, much better than the 787, looking forward to it.

[Plane mad 134]

Sorry, I'm not sure which schedules you're referring to.
Sorry should have explained better, the Schedules on the Edinburgh airport website, go to flights and then schedules and then search up Doha in the search bar👍

[CabinCrewe]

Hasn't there always been a QR plan to be double daily on certain days ? I didn't think that was new.

[ROC10]

Hasn't there always been a QR plan to be double daily on certain days ? I didn't think that was new.

This is already happening and has been for a while with QR30 and QR32.

[GulfTraveller]

I think these are supplementary flights rather than a new service, possibly to coincide with the end of summer holidays. I noticed there were extra flights in the QR2**** series yesterday to LHR, MAN and CDG and another to MAN today. The timings, close to the scheduled services supports this. I would be surprised if they continued more than a few days.

[BAladdy]

Hasn't there always been a QR plan to be double daily on certain days ? I didn't think that was new.
QR currently operate 2 flights a day on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday. The frequency will return to daily from the start of the Winter schedule on 27th October

[Plane mad 134]

Jet2 have uploaded their preliminary schedule for W20/21 here are some of the changes, subject to change:
·Tenerife South goes up 1x weekly from 4x to 5x weekly
·Gran Canaria goes up 1x weekly from 2x to 3x weekly
·Lanzarote has an extra weekly flight during peak times
·Antalya becomes year round 1x weekly

Still not available for booking:
Geneva, Vienna, Salzburg and Budapest

I would think maybe Budapest may be uploaded later but we shall see as Wizzair and Ryanair are competitive on this route.

[Plane mad 134]

Wizzair to increase Budapest from 3x to 5x weekly next summer, must be getting good forward bookings.

[inOban]

I can't imagine that Jet2 will continue Budapest, unless for some Christmas weekends, possibly. Only a few years ago, it was their only AYR destination from Edinburgh.

[VickersVicount]

Cant see Cathay entertaining EDI any time soon if DUB just been shelved.

[ScotsSLF]

Wizzair to increase Budapest from 3x to 5x weekly next summer, must be getting good forward bookings.

or simply a tactic to take on the competition. Expect some great loss leader deals to Budapest over the next 6-9 months. Something will give

[Plane mad 134]

Good to see Turkish have subbed in A330-300 TC-JOF on the Istanbul flight today, nice change from the B737.

[VickersVicount]

Good to see Turkish have subbed in A330-300 TC-JOF on the Istanbul flight today, nice change from the B737.
I'm guessing there will be lots of empty seats on that particular flight!

[GrahamK]

I'm guessing there will be lots of empty seats on that particular flight!

Not neccessarily, perhaps someone has block booked a significant number of seats hence requiring the upgrade?

[goldeneye]

Not neccessarily, perhaps someone has block booked a significant number of seats hence requiring the upgrade?

there is a TK 737 parked up on the new hard standing area. So may have gone tech yesterday.

[wub]

The 330 left two hours late

[ifu05596]

Excellent to see Qatar Airways full in business class on both directions last week. Glad it seems to hold up to increased frequencies on bigger aircraft even with Emirates coming to town (as good as Ethihad were, they are no match to the Emirates network).

[VickersVicount]

Seems so variable, for example tomorrow 18+ J seats still available. Are Q Suites regularly available?

[ifu05596]

Seems so variable, for example tomorrow 18+ J seats still available. Are Q Suites regularly available?

I did EDI-DOH-JNB and back again in J all full but all on -900 so no QSuite for me sadly. Reading online seems like it would be rare (I.e. that’s the only plane available). Shame if it isn’t consistently busy, the 3 of us parted way with £10k between us on the company so hopefully that helps keep it going!

[VickersVicount]

Thank goodness Hainan being axed...
Disgusting DUB-EDI Hainan (https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/9938655/dirty-plane-stained-seat-hainan-airlines/)

[VickersVicount]

as expected, EZY to launch BHX from EDI as well as GLA. Talk about overcapacity...
I am guessing that this and FlyBe schedule will not remain the same the following season...

[Plane mad 134]

Wow good news to see EasyJet expand again, but I also think the route is going to see some changes in the next few seasons, we may see Flybe leave the route soon as well.

Edinburgh cant stop announcing new routes!

[inOban]

Assuming that the EZY flights are at business-friendly times, Flybe will lose their most profitable customers, putting the whole route at risk. EDI to BHX could end up with just two flights per day rather than seven. Most of the traffic goes by train already.

[FQTLSteve]

Well 2 x daily EDI-BHX wouldn't be enough. It's a busy business route and has had multiple frequency for decades now (as has GLA very similarly) I think that would not give business the flexibility it needs. The train is 4h30m fastest, at a frequency of only every two hours so you spend 9 hours minimum on the train that will require an overnight stay unlike a day or half day return by air. Both routes have been served by 1-11's, 737 and A319 with BA (some ATP off peak) in the past, although there was feed to BA hub at BHX, until they pulled out, admittedly but frequency has still been maintained. Although now retired and re-located, I have in the past been a frequent business user BHX-EDI/GLA and frequency is very important as it's possible with the schedule to use time efficiently. I think it really needs to remain at good daily spread service and 1 on Saturday is wholly inadequate. I hope you're wrong on your suggestion.

[inOban]

easyJet are forecasting over 180000 pax. On the basis of the July data, which may be not normal, Flybe carry just under 300000. So EZY expect to take over half the traffic, unless there's an unmet need for LCC traffic.
And BTW, the train takes about 3 hr 30. We'll see.

[ib26uk]

I love flybe and having been using them from BHX to BHD/GLA/EDI for years !!!!!!!!!

I welcome this news !!!!!!!

I can now fly from BHX to BFS-GLA-EDI with easyJet instead

[chrism20]

easyJet are forecasting over 180000 pax. On the basis of the July data, which may be not normal, Flybe carry just under 300000. So EZY expect to take over half the traffic, unless there's an unmet need for LCC traffic.
And BTW, the train takes about 3 hr 30. We'll see.

3h 30m for the train is way off the mark. The quickest is the 0852 which is 4h6m. The majority are nearer 4h15m

[cazzyg]

Great to see some competition on the EDI-BHX route as a regular user. The current FlyBe service is poor with frequent delays, cancellations and the planes are tired and cramped.

I have colleagues that take the train rather than use FlyBe. EasyJet is likely to take passengers from the train as well as FlyBe if the flight times work for business travel. The current train service isn’t really an option for day trips and if you live outside Edinburgh is closer to 5 hours minimum.

July is is likely to have lower loads given that July is peak holiday time and the number of business travellers on the route.

[FQTLSteve]

The average journey time by train from BHX itself is 4h30 every two hours. It depends where you start from. There is a large catchment area from the South/ South East area from the airport down to Milton Keynes etc. I'm just saying for business users I think the train takes far too long; day returns are an absolute requirement.

[Plane mad 134]

Even more news as Flybe cut Edinburgh-East Midlands and Loganair add Edinburgh-East Midlands, it looks like loganair will be 5x daily.

[Plane mad 134]

Aslo reported in a kerry newspaper they are in negotiations with Loganair for flights from Edinburgh to Kerry.

[VickersVicount]

Even more news as Flybe cut Edinburgh-East Midlands and Loganair add Edinburgh-East Midlands, it looks like loganair will be 5x daily.
5x Daily seems overkill...

[inOban]

The schedule on the East Midlands thread shows just 4.

[LGWAlan]

It's up to 4 daily:
1 LM 361 X7 EDI EMA 0650 0800 0 30MAR20 29AUG20 ER4 1:10
2 LM 363 7 EDI EMA 1200 1310 0 29MAR20 30AUG20 ER4 1:10
3 LM 365 X6 EDI EMA 1430 1540 0 29MAR20 30AUG20 ER4 1:10
4 LM 367 X67 EDI EMA 1600 1710 0 30MAR20 28AUG20 ER4 1:10
5 LM 369 X6 EDI EMA 1930 2040 0 29MAR20 30AUG20 ER4 1:10

and:
1 LM 362 X7 EMA EDI 0830 0940 0 30MAR20 29AUG20 ER4 1:10
2 LM 364 X67 EMA EDI 1415 1525 0 30MAR20 28AUG20 ER4 1:10
3 LM 366 X6 EMA EDI 1740 1850 0 29MAR20 30AUG20 ER4 1:10
4 LM 368 X6 EMA EDI 1955 2105 0 29MAR20 30AUG20 ER4 1:10
5 LM 370 5 EMA EDI 2110 2220 0 03APR20 28AUG20 ER4 1:10

[Sk1schoolsam]

It's up to 4 daily:
1 LM 361 X7 EDI EMA 0650 0800 0 (tel:0650 0800 0) 30MAR20 29AUG20 ER4 1:10
2 LM 363 7 EDI EMA 1200 1310 0 (tel:1200 1310 0) 29MAR20 30AUG20 ER4 1:10
3 LM 365 X6 EDI EMA 1430 1540 0 (tel:1430 1540 0) 29MAR20 30AUG20 ER4 1:10
4 LM 367 X67 EDI EMA 1600 1710 0 (tel:1600 1710 0) 30MAR20 28AUG20 ER4 1:10
5 LM 369 X6 EDI EMA 1930 2040 0 (tel:1930 2040 0) 29MAR20 30AUG20 ER4 1:10

and:
1 LM 362 X7 EMA EDI 0830 0940 0 (tel:0830 0940 0) 30MAR20 29AUG20 ER4 1:10
2 LM 364 X67 EMA EDI 1415 1525 0 (tel:1415 1525 0) 30MAR20 28AUG20 ER4 1:10
3 LM 366 X6 EMA EDI 1740 1850 0 (tel:1740 1850 0) 29MAR20 30AUG20 ER4 1:10
4 LM 368 X6 EMA EDI 1955 2105 0 (tel:1955 2105 0) 29MAR20 30AUG20 ER4 1:10
5 LM 370 5 EMA EDI 2110 2220 0 (tel:2110 2220 0) 03APR20 28AUG20 ER4 1:10

This is a reduction in terms of seats moving from Dash 8 to a E145 - right? Did not fly the route often so don’t know what the Flybe load factors were like but the smaller plane might be fuller. Is this not a flash back to when BMI served the route?

[double_barrel]

Hi All,


I hope this question is in the right place!

I am flying out of EDI on flybe in a couple of days. After that I am flying out of MAN and out of Europe.

I want to hand carry a handheld, re-chargable, aviation, VHF transceiver. I need to hand carry it out of EDI because I will have hand luggage only, and out of MAN because I want to claim a VAT refund on it Any idea how security will react to it? In theory I could cause total mayhem with it! But I wonder if security will know or care and will distinguish it from any random radio ?


https://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=204&encProdID=B46CB86AB1B827F6E14DD901FA026E26&DivisionID=2&isArchived=0

Thanks

[inOban]

https://www.insider.co.uk/news/edinburgh-airport-celebrates-record-august-20097900

Although they don't seem to have posted the numbers on their own website, I found them here. Big fall in domestic numbers, just offset by continued, but slowing, growth in international business.

[Breathe]

Formation of a new airport access road from the east of the terminal building at Edinburgh Airport to Gogar Roundabout

https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/idoxpa-web/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=PYBRI3EW0XE00

This image also appears to show an extended south east pier.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x497/1oketpt_14e50b3fea858dc94ee7c3f7858fe6608123d760.jpg

[Plane mad 134]

All part of the masterplan, Good to see more expansion though. Also Jet2 added a few thousand extra seats for the winter. And Im also hearing rumours that Jetblue are intersted in starting New York in the future on A321XLR.

[CabinCrewe]

Im also hearing rumours that Jetblue...
And where/whom were you hearing that from? Keen to credibility and timescales.

[DUB19]

All part of the masterplan, Good to see more expansion though. Also Jet2 added a few thousand extra seats for the winter. And Im also hearing rumours that Jetblue are intersted in starting New York in the future on A321XLR.

JetBlue will not come near the place. They are more interested in larger cities first such as London, Dublin & Amsterdam. They are not going to launch risky routes like EDI, they are only going to launch routes that they know there is demand for.

[PDXCWL45]

JetBlue will not come near the place. They are more interested in larger cities first such as London, Dublin & Amsterdam. They are not going to launch risky routes like EDI, they are only going to launch routes that they know there is demand for.
Edinburgh is on their radar but not in their first launch.

[Plane mad 134]

And where/whom were you hearing that from? Keen to credibility and timescales.

Its on the Jetblue Map of potential destinations for the A321XLR, and Its been rumoured elsewhere, but my guess would be that the flights wont be for a few years.

[tartan 201]

And where/whom were you hearing that from? Keen to credibility and timescales.
Presumably this presentation from them is the source (although the dot on the map could perhaps equally be Glasgow).

https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/1176294496658542592?s=19

[PDXCWL45]

Presumably this presentation from them is the source (although the dot on the map could perhaps equally be Glasgow).

https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/1176294496658542592?s=19
Yep that's it and I'd go for EDI rather than Glasgow.

[inOban]

As a US airline its main market will be journeys starting in the US. It's well established that EDI has a higher proportion of inbound traffic than any other UK airport outside London, so EDI will be a higher priority than its population would suggest.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

“Some ideas” and “could”. Hmmmm

[SWBKCB]

“Some ideas” and “could”. Hmmmm

Think that means they're still happy for airports to buy them a nice lunch :ok:

[LFT]

Yep that's it and I'd go for EDI rather than Glasgow.

Why? Is there a reason?

[PDXCWL45]

Why? Is there a reason?
Edinburgh is a bigger tourist draw and I'd have thought with the likes of RBS based there a bigger premium market than Glasgow.

[CabinCrewe]

Edinburgh is a bigger tourist draw and I'd have thought with the likes of RBS based there a bigger premium market than Glasgow.
Yet the lower rent tourist element appears already covered by eg DL and I can't see any obvious link between BOS and RBS? Even the RBS office that was once in Boston is long since shut (?2015)
JetBlue tend to break the mould. As I don't see anything happening in next 5 years, a lot of things will have changed by then.

[PDXCWL45]

Yet the lower rent tourist element appears already covered by eg DL and I can't see any obvious link between BOS and RBS? Even the RBS office that was once in Boston is long since shut (?2015)
JetBlue tend to break the mould. As I don't see anything happening in next 5 years, a lot of things will have changed by then.

They also fly from New York

[4eyed anorak]

Record numbers for August!

https://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/busiest-august-on-record

[4eyed anorak]

August C.A.A stats are now published.

Regards 4ea

[CabinCrewe]

interesting the drops in major hubs... AMS, CDG, IST etc . DOH carried less in Aug than in July and DXB flat with July which is surprising.

[FFHKG]

Would have thought that June & July figures would have been boosted by Asian students returning home from Universities. Would expect a similar surge for their return in September.

[inOban]

Little or no growth on almost any route which ran last year - except Beijing! The growth has come from the fr routes transferred from Glasgow.

[Plane mad 134]

Just been calculating loadfactors on the EDI flights in August and it looks like Stansted is 99% full on average, that's impressive if my calculations are correct!

[CabinCrewe]

Just been calculating loadfactors on the EDI flights in August and it looks like Stansted is 99% full on average, that's impressive if my calculations are correct!
Why is it impressive when FR have pulled off the route so capacity is squeezed ? If it wasn't full you would be concerned. Most LON airport flights run pretty full.

[goldeneye]

Why is it impressive when FR have pulled off the route so capacity is squeezed ? If it wasn't full you would be concerned. Most LON airport flights run pretty full.

Did FR not pull off the domestics due to capacity issues caused by the 737 Max ?

[wub]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x715/hainan_6ce5f1149b64960e9d9ee730275d9a5fe4062caf.jpg
The last Hainan from EDI to Beijing leaving today

[Sk1schoolsam]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x715/hainan_6ce5f1149b64960e9d9ee730275d9a5fe4062caf.jpg
The last Hainan from EDI to Beijing leaving today

Pity the weather was so miserable today for the picture. Sad to see this one go, fingers crossed that they bring it back next summer, or another airline takes up the route.

[GrahamK]

Jet2 dropping Budapest for S20

[VickersVicount]

Jet2 dropping Budapest for S20
Was pretty predictable. Another Benidorm instead?

[Plane mad 134]

Was pretty predictable. Another Benidorm instead?

I looked through the schedules and it seems Jet2 have added an extra weekly flight to Dalaman and Antalya both will go from 3x to 4x weekly.

So basically ending a commercially unsustainable route against Ryanair 1x daily and Wizzair 5x weekly and adding flights to pick up the slack at key areas and old Thomas Cook destinations. A good business move as they would have lost money on the Budapest route.

[4eyed anorak]

Tiny increase for September!

https://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/small-growth-in-september

[mike current]

Passenger numbers are up 1% on the same month last year, but down from growth of 5.8% in September 2018.

Do they think that 5.8% growth every year is either realistic or sustainable?

Any form of growth at this stage is good news, at a time when a lot of airports are either flatlining or declining.

[inOban]

I would be surprised if the October figures show any growth, and after that it will be negative, with Ryanair in particular dropping several routes for the winter (although their warfare with Wizz over eastern Europe will be interesting)

[Plane mad 134]

I think next summer will see an increase again, as there is a few new routes scheduled and barely any decreases as of yet, although I expect some more big changes before S20 is finalised.

[Musket90]

Perhaps the 1% increase would have been slightly more had it not been for the BA strike as the figures show a fall in domestic traffic.

[inOban]

The fall in domestic numbers is mainly due to the dropping of the Ryanair service to STN.

​​​​

[Plane mad 134]

Edelweiss is to increase its Edinburgh Zurich route from 2x weekly to 1x daily in S20, extra flights should be on sale soon.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Edelweiss is to increase its Edinburgh Zurich route from 2x weekly to 1x daily in S20, extra flights should be on sale soon.

Airlines Website currently shows 4 per week in high summer. Is this already an increase on S19? Would be great if it went to daily 😊

[tartan 201]

Airlines Website currently shows 4 per week in high summer. Is this already an increase on S19? Would be great if it went to daily 😊

It was five-weekly during July to September S19, which is when it was at its most frequent. The airline's website currently still shows only five-weekly during the same months in S20. Remains to be seen if the mooted increase to daily will be limited to those same months in S20.

[inOban]

AIRC, in W18 it continued throughout, 1/wk on a Sunday, presumably looking for the ski market, but this year it's suspended after the New Year for several weeks.

[Plane mad 134]

Tui add an extra weekly flight to Dalaman, taking it from 2x to 3x weekly, this will be on a 3rd party airline and away based.

[Plane mad 134]

All gone a bit quiet, any potential new routes on the horizon?

If not still looking like there will be an increase in passengers next year.

Also new £20 million taxi rank is due to be built for next summer, replacing the old taxi rank.: https://www-edinburghnews-scotsman-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/traffic-and-travel/end-sight-taxi-wars-edinburgh-airport-new-ps6m-rank-announced-818850?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&amp&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15719097103436&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.edinburghnews.scotsman.com%2Fnews %2Ftraffic-and-travel%2Fend-sight-taxi-wars-edinburgh-airport-new-ps6m-rank-announced-818850

[FlyingScotland]

You posted just yesterday to tell us about a new Dalaman flight. I don't think we can expect new services to be announced on a daily basis.

[CabinCrewe]

... someones going to wet themselves reading the slot reports..

[Plane mad 134]

... someones going to wet themselves reading the slot reports..
I already have, Nothing major in terms of changes there will be less seats available this winter than last!

Also noteworthy but not major is Flybe will be basing a wet leased E190 at Edinburgh this winter to fly the London City route and help free up some other frames, they are also recruiting staff for EDI next summer.

[Sk1schoolsam]

I already have, Nothing major in terms of changes there will be less seats available this winter than last!

Also noteworthy but not major is Flybe will be basing a wet leased E190 at Edinburgh this winter to fly the London City route and help free up some other frames, they are also recruiting staff for EDI next summer.

i thought Flybe we’re trying to get rid of their jet fleet??

Also how will there be less seats to Dalaman when there is an additional flight?

[Plane mad 134]

i thought Flybe we’re trying to get rid of their jet fleet??

Also how will there be less seats to Dalaman when there is an additional flight?

I meant after reading the slots report the total number of seats available is less than last winter.

[inOban]

Presumably the loss of FR routes - STN and, seasonally, several other routes - exceeds some increases elsewhere.

[Plane mad 134]

Hearing from the EasyJet thread EDI will have 9x based from next summer, this will be to help run the BHX route when it goes on sale, nothing confirmed yet though.

[FlyingScotland]

It's one of many suggested options. I suggested they cut existing routes and frequencies to make way. Both equally as likely. Perhaps its no surprise you chose to take the positive one to start yet another rumour with.

[ROC10]

It's one of many suggested options. I suggested they cut existing routes and frequencies to make way. Both equally as likely. Perhaps its no surprise you chose to take the positive one to start yet another rumour with.

You “suggested” they cut existing routes? Are they looking at this forum to make that decision? It may be that routes are cut but why would we want that to happen? The other option (9th aircraft) seems more likely from that thread so hopefully that’ll happen.

[FlyingScotland]

I'm just making a point that Plane Mad has a habit of starting rumours which are completely baseless, they are just what he/ she wishes to happen.

That's all.

[ROC10]

I'm just making a point that Plane Mad has a habit of starting rumours which are completely baseless, they are just what he/ she wishes to happen.

That's all.

Thats fair enough but I don’t think the poster you mention started this “rumour”. Another poster (perhaps more reputable?) seemed to imply that they know a 9th aircraft will be added. Correct me if I’m wrong.

[GoEDI]

Looking at current rough planned aircraft utilisation for Monday mornings S20, they might well be on to something:

1) BFS 0700-0915 TXL 0945-1440
2) STN 0610-0925 AMS 1005-1340
3) LGW 0600-0945 BRS 1015-1315
4) BHX XXXX-XXXX VRN 1020-1615
5) LTN 0700-1015 GVA 1045-1545
6) CPH 0710-1125 MAD 1200-1830
7) PRG 0600-1115 STR 1220-1715
8) KRK 0640-1240 CDG 1325-1735
9) SVQ 0600-1300 HAM 1355-1800

Could be all subject to change. I'm sure all will be revealed soon enough...

[Severn]

I'm just making a point that Plane Mad has a habit of starting rumours which are completely baseless, they are just what he/ she wishes to happen.

That's all.
To be fair, Plane mad 123 actually mentioned where he had seen the information, therefore it was never a "baseless rumour".
He did mention that the information was from the easyJet thread where I had posted the information earlier in the evening.
This is the information plane mad 123 was alluding to and I've re-posted it here:

easyJets EDI base will increase to 9x aircraft next summer; 4x A319s, and 5x A320s - an increase of 1x A319.
Looking at a Monday next summer, the EDI-based aircraft show as operating the same flights they operated this summer, although some flights move from an A319 to A320 and vice versa.
A new flight to VRN has been added during the middle of the day on the new based A319, and a morning LGW and evening GVA move from a A320 to the new A319. This leaves BHX sized gaps morning and evening on an EDI based A320.
Similar happens throughout the week, so unless easyJet dramatically change the schedule for EDI and other bases, it looks as if EDI gains an extra aircraft next summer.


easyJets GLA base increases to 5x aircraft next summer, 3x A319s, and 2x A320s - an increase of 1x A319 also.
The BHX flights take the morning and evening slots on the new based A319 leaving a large slot in the middle of the day on some days which has not yet been filled.

[Plane mad 134]

Regarding EasyJet yes it was severns post I seen and he is more knowledgeable than me and has been on this forum for years, I have been here a year as well and gave a source to the information so not baseless, I hope it does materialise though.

[Plane mad 134]

Does anyone know why there is a Titan Airways B767 inbound from Colombus USA reg G-POWD?

Edit: Luthansa will increase the EDI-MUC service from 3x weekly to daily.

Source: https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1190179546181652480?s=19

[4eyed anorak]

Does anyone know why there is a Titan Airways B767 inbound from Colombus USA reg G-POWD?

Edit: Luthansa will increase the EDI-MUC service from 3x weekly to daily.

Source: https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1190179546181652480?s=19

Will that still run alongside the Eurowings service or is that being withdrawn?

Regards 4ea

[Plane mad 134]

Will that still run alongside the Eurowings service or is that being withdrawn?

Regards 4ea

It will run alongside it with Eurowings at 5x weekly.

[sf01]

Will that still run alongside the Eurowings service or is that being withdrawn?

Regards 4ea


Some EW flights for summer 2020 are zero'd out apart from highest fares suggesting some changes may come.

[SWBKCB]

Looks like LH are going for it in the UK regions - increasing MUC in EDI, introducing MUC to NCL, increasing FRA at GLA, re-introducing FRA at BRS.

[inOban]

Given that there's a daily EZY flight as well, I would be surprised if the Eurowings flights operate.

[Porrohman]

The Titan B763 from Columbus is operating a charter on behalf of Brewdog;
https://www.brewdog.com/uk/brewdog-airlines

[Plane mad 134]

The Titan B763 from Columbus is operating a charter on behalf of Brewdog;
https://www.brewdog.com/uk/brewdog-airlines

Thanks, interesting flight then.

[Flightrider]

EW will not be operating MUC alongside LH. They'll be flying CGN and DUS from EDI only, with LH on FRA and MUC.

[ezycrew]

GLA will gain another A320 in March, 3 x A320 & 2 x A319

[FlyingScotland]

GLA will gain another A320 in March, 3 x A320 & 2 x A319

Great news although might I suggest you post this in the GLA thread? :)

[inOban]

To be fair, a previous post on this thread had said that both EDI and GLA were gaining a 319.

What I think is significant is that both have a continuing need for the smaller a/c, at a time when the LCCs are generally upsizing. There seem to be a number of routes which need a smaller a/c at a reasonable frequency, rather than a large one just a couple of times a week.

[Plane mad 134]

Reported on the EDI twitter that the new East road planning is going ahead with it expected to be completed by early 2021.

Also WestJet have 3.5 B767 available for flying to Europe, and the UK was rumoured to be getting at least 1 of the 767 for a new flight, my guess would be an additional YYZ-LGW flight, YYZ-MAN or YYZ-EDI as was widely rumoured a while ago, now would be the best time for another Toronto flight to compete with Air Canada Rouge IMHO.

[FlyingScotland]

The only place WestJet has ever been "rumoured" is wishful thinking on this very thread. Yet another "GLA has it so EDI must too" wishful thinking "let's make up a rumour" type post.

WestJet won't be appearing at EDI anytime soon.

If there was demand for more Toronto then Air Canada would increase. They have been at EDI for what must be near a decade now and despite fares being rather cheap have actually reduced their EDI flights over the years, not increased.

[Plane mad 134]

The only place WestJet has ever been "rumoured" is wishful thinking on this very thread. Yet another "GLA has it so EDI must too" wishful thinking "let's make up a rumour" type post.

WestJet won't be appearing at EDI anytime soon.

If there was demand for more Toronto then Air Canada would increase. They have been at EDI for what must be near a decade now and despite fares being rather cheap have actually reduced their EDI flights over the years, not increased.

WestJet was not wishful thinking, it was in advanced stages and just about to be announced when for some reason talks broke down, WestJet have remained interested in EDI because there is a market for another airline to Toronto and I do believe that this will materialise at some point in the near future.

[FlyingScotland]

Airports talk to airlines every day of the week. Doesn't mean every airline on the planet wants to serve EDI.

Fares from EDI to Toronto are already dirt cheap and having reduced their flights just a few years ago Air Canada clearly disagree with you about the level of demand that existing from EDI. But of course that's not as exciting as made up rumours so carry on.

[Plane mad 134]

Airports talk to airlines every day of the week. Doesn't mean every airline on the planet wants to serve EDI.

Fares from EDI to Toronto are already dirt cheap and having reduced their flights just a few years ago Air Canada clearly disagree with you about the level of demand that existing from EDI. But of course that's not as exciting as made up rumours so carry on.
It's not a rumour, I never said it was I just said IMHO I think YYZ-EDI and YYZ-MAN have a chance of seeing a WestJet 767 next summer, nothing wrong with that, and I do believe that this will materialise at some point IMO.

Edit: A United B767-300ER N684UA made an emergency landing at EDI, parked at a remote stand the now.

[FlyingScotland]

You seem to think every airline on the planet is lining up to serve EDI. If anyone was to believe your posts on this thread they'd think EDI was more in demand than LHR.

It's clear you're very, very enthusiastic about your local airport but calm down. This is a news and rumours website. Not a "let's make up rumours as we go" or "post a daily wishlist" forum. Your posts are more suitable for a letter to santa.

As I say, just calm down.


​

[CabinCrewe]

seems a little harsh. Theres enough room for schoolboy enthusiasm in here. You don't need to reply or you can simply block if the recurrent similar posts are annoying you.
Seems you like to rustle feathers on forums!

[ROC10]

seems a little harsh. Theres enough room for schoolboy enthusiasm in here. You don't need to reply or you can simply block if the recurrent similar posts are annoying you.
Seems you like to rustle feathers on forums!

I agree. The poster who has been posting these “rumours” has not displayed an aggressive tone in their posts. Nothing wrong with a bit of enthusiasm, especially for your local airport.

[globaltraveller]

I'd also take issue that EDI is well served with connections to Canada especially YYZ or that fares to there are dirt cheap. On a trip there back in May it was much cheaper to fly EDI-LHR-YYZ than comparative fares on Air Canada Rouge. (There were no direct flights from GLA on the days I needed to travel so that wasn't an option).

I would say, despite the plethora of rumours there may or may not be around route development at Edinburgh, that at the very least another competitor or a year round service on the EDI-YYZ route would probably be extremely sensible and workable.

GLA used to do well with Canadian routes but Calgary and Vancouver were chopped about 2/3 years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if their options to YYZ go backwards as well. EDI would just generally be a much better option.

[A350Saltire]

I suspect that it is only because planemad is being positive and enthusiastic about EDI that flyingscotland has a problem.

For what it’s worth there is or was some credibility about the Westjet to EDI chat but I am not sure what has happened there. I do think that EDI could support increased Canadian services though.

[Breathe]

Some of the airport fanboism is a bit cringey to read though.

[Plane mad 134]

EasyJet schedule first A321neo flights with Bristol 1x weekly from 29th March and Milan Malpensa 2x weekly from 30th April. Also Norwegian increases Oslo from 7x to 9x weekly from April.

[inOban]

I assume that these will be frames based at the named airports? At present all Milan flights originate there.

[Plane mad 134]

I assume that these will be frames based at the named airports? At present all Milan flights originate there.
Yes all A321neo flights will be away based.

[inOban]

http://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/october-passenger-numbers

First drop for five years, except for the Beast from the East. Still slight international growth.

[Plane mad 134]

Flybe add new EDI-SEN 3x daily from 15th June 2020 all on EDI based planes. Great news!

[VickersVicount]

http://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/october-passenger-numbers

First drop for five years, except for the Beast from the East. Still slight international growth.

Seems a lot of fuss in press over nothing
https://airwaysmag.com/airports/edinburgh-airport-records-negative-growth/

[Snr]

Flybe add new EDI-SEN 3x daily from 15th June 2020 all on EDI based planes. Great news!

Do you have a link? The summer schedule hasn't been released yet...

[Plane mad 134]

Do you have a link? The summer schedule hasn't been released yet...
Check the Amadeus timetables and also @SeanM1997 twitter.

[BOHEuropean]

Do you have a link? The summer schedule hasn't been released yet...

Some flights are already bookable on 3rd party websites such as Skyscanner