Edinburgh-3

[CabinCrewe]

Looks like the EY pax shifting to QR. EY numbers for August way down and QR a good bit up. Surprisingly Cardiff catching up quickly on EDI QR numbers.
EK at NCL and GLA both up again.

[GoEDI]

Looks like the EY pax shifting to QR. EY numbers for August way down and QR a good bit up. Surprisingly Cardiff catching up quickly on EDI QR numbers.
EK at NCL and GLA both up again.

EY were daily Aug 17, 5pw Aug 18....

[CraigJay]

Would be surprised to see that. Esp as Lisbon only got a seasonal 757. The US market couldnt sustain additional routes with Norwegian as we've seen even with budget prices so flooding it again on a mainline legacy widebody makes no sense.

Norweigan aside, all of the routes to the US have performed very well this summer. Norweigan did blame APD for the failure which would make sense as their loads were good, another problem for Norweigan is that the majority of Scots wouldn’t know where providence was, and that it was so close to Boston, delta wouldn’t have that problem.

[Plane mad 134]

Finally some better news as Atlantic Airways are scheduling A320 instead of A319 on 1 of 2 weekly flights for the whole summer season.

[canberra97]

Finally some better news as Atlantic Airways are scheduling A320 instead of A319 on 1 of 2 weekly flights for the whole summer season.

Don't get over excited because as your aware Atlantic Airways ''whole summer season'' only lasts between 17 June 2019 to the 19 August 2019 with two flights a week on a Monday (A320) and a Thursday (A319) with additional flights on the 18 April, May 6 and May 13 2019 which are all operated by a A320.

[CabinCrewe]

I thought the loads on that Faroes flight were dire on average? Why would you put even more empty seats on it unless its just for scheduling/logistics? Im guessing the operating cost might not be hugely higher

[tartan 201]

I thought the loads on that Faroes flight were dire on average?
81% load factor EDI<>FAE in July this year.

[Porrohman]

In addition, I expect that cargo makes a significant contribution to its finances. Also, the fares are high compared to other similar length flights.

[Plane mad 134]

I dont know if this has already been posted but Munich is to go over to Lufthansa mainline from March instead of Eurowings.

[inOban]

#704! I discovered that by accident when I was at the Eurowings site and realised that there weren't any Munich flights after end March. Makes sense since Easyjet have a daily LCC flight and Munich is LH's second hub.

[Plane mad 134]

Oh sorry i didn't see that, I also read a report that Flybe are not happy with the relationship with Edinburghs management, doesnt seem good as Flybe are saying they want to expand there services.
Article was the Scotsman.

[inOban]

+5.8% in September. MAT just over 14 million.

[Breathe]

I dont know if this has already been posted but Munich is to go over to Lufthansa mainline from March instead of Eurowings.
Any likelihood of Eurowings deploying the Munich flight to another destination such as Hamburg or Hannover or do folk think LH mainline will just be a direct replacement?

[Plane mad 134]

Regarding the Eurowings flights I dont think there will be any new routes as it was meant to be a direct replacement but I wouldnt rule a replacement flight out entirely. Also some news regarding rumours :
United have ended their Hamburg service on B767-300 maybe Newark will change to this from the 757.
Flybe are intersted in starting new routes but are currently unhappy with management at Edinburgh.
Westjet also have a spare 767 to utilise and this may be on the rumoured Edinburgh flight.
Air Canada also rumoured to be starting a year round service on MAX8 but very unlikely in the near future.
Best regars.

[bycrewlgw]

Any likelihood of Eurowings deploying the Munich flight to another destination such as Hamburg or Hannover or do folk think LH mainline will just be a direct replacement?

possibly. LH are moving all, I believe, flights the start or terminate at MUC and FRA to mainline. All others will be EW.

Read it somewhere but cant find source.

[VickersVicount]

Hurghada and Malaga ex EDI as winter only W19. Not sure if replacements for others/previous or if truly expanded winter program.

[edi_local]

Regarding the Eurowings flights I dont think there will be any new routes as it was meant to be a direct replacement but I wouldnt rule a replacement flight out entirely. Also some news regarding rumours :
United have ended their Hamburg service on B767-300 maybe Newark will change to this from the 757.
Flybe are intersted in starting new routes but are currently unhappy with management at Edinburgh.
Westjet also have a spare 767 to utilise and this may be on the rumoured Edinburgh flight.
Air Canada also rumoured to be starting a year round service on MAX8 but very unlikely in the near future.
Best regars.

Where are they thinking of going? Surely any grievance they have with EDI management shouldn't really stop them from developing new routes, serving customers and ultimately making money and growing their business. If they can't settle an argument with an airport then the airport will just find someone else to serve those routes. What is it that BE are bringing to the table that they think they deserve to have special treatment?

[4eyed anorak]

According to my Icelandic friends WOW are to discontinue the Edinburgh flights.
Just passing on what I was told.

Wow flights stop at the end of March 19 then resume on the 14th May 3x till the end of September 19.

Regards 4ea

[inOban]

Where are they thinking of going? Surely any grievance they have with EDI management shouldn't really stop them from developing new routes, serving customers and ultimately making money and growing their business. If they can't settle an argument with an airport then the airport will just find someone else to serve those routes. What is it that BE are bringing to the table that they think they deserve to have special treatment?

In the Scotsman article referred to in an earlier post they argued that, as a major feeder of pax into onward flights, they deserved better than to be regularly made to park in distant stands and their passengers bussed. They didn't feel valued.

[edi_local]

In the Scotsman article referred to in an earlier post they argued that, as a major feeder of pax into onward flights, they deserved better than to be regularly made to park in distant stands and their passengers bussed. They didn't feel valued.

The Scotsman regularly has anti-EDI articles anyway, but that aside, FlyBE are not really boosting EDI's long haul routes as for every plane load that brings connecting passengers in, they are also taking passengers away to LHR, BHX or MAN to connect onwards too, so in reality they almost cancel themselves out.

It is far more logical, surely for BE to park remotely and have 1 bus come to collect their whole aircraft and deposit another full aircraft back rather than another bigger aircraft park remotely and require 2,3 or even 4 bus trips?

[Plane mad 134]

If Eurowings are starting Hurghada and Malaga as new winter destinations abroad then that is a first in time they operate to somewhere that is not a base or focus city from a UK airport.

[inOban]

Now that FR have launched their German program we can see that Hahn ends this month and doesn't return in the summer, while Weeze does return but only twice weekly. Baden Baden (2wkly) and Hamburg (4wkly) as S18.

[mullac30]

I have just signed a new contract for my work that involves monthly travel to Zurich and I am very suprised to see the lack of direct link between the two cities. Surely a gold mine sitting waiting for someone to start or am I missing something? I thought someone like Loganair or flybe would at least have some sort of regular frequency
Edelwiess fly from ZRH to EDI and INV

[inOban]

Edelweiss fly twice a week at this time, once, Saturday, in winter, up to four times a week in summer. Ok, not much use if you you have to visit head office for the day, you'll need to fly via LCY or another London airport.

[jfy1999]

Delta to add a seasonal daily Boston for S19 (http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/314323/delta-adds-to-scottish-capacity-with-second-edinburgh-us-route) on the 757.

[VickersVicount]

Amazing! Just whats needed. BOS was missing from Scotland.
A summer seasonal should do fine.
What are the BOS commections like?
Wonder what the confirmed timings will be- as EDI is already jam packed.
Though lots of space now minus DY !

[Plane mad 134]

Definately great news I heard that this would happen and Im glad to see it go through.

[edi_local]

Edelweiss fly twice a week at this time, once, Saturday, in winter, up to four times a week in summer. Ok, not much use if you you have to visit head office for the day, you'll need to fly via LCY or another London airport.

There are other options to ZRH from EDI that don't need a london airport.

AMS, CDG, FRA, BRU or DUB would all offer something, probably cheaper and better quality than anything through London as well.

Good news about BOS.

[inOban]

https://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/where-everybody-knows-your-name

Boston starts May 24th.

[A350Saltire]

Wonderful news about BOS and great for EDI after Norwegian pulling out. I wonder if B6 will ever start their own TATL services from BOS or have DL beaten them to it by starting to offer more international routes from Logan.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Called this utterly wrong, happy to eat my hat. Well done Delta!

[inOban]

They're entirely focused on the tourist market. I doubt that the business demand would support a frequent service using Embraer or similar sized a/c.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Wonderful news about BOS and great for EDI after Norwegian pulling out. I wonder if B6 will ever start their own TATL services from BOS or have DL beaten them to it by starting to offer more international routes from Logan.

Excellent news, looks like Dublin got the 767 upgrade on the JKF route this time around. Delta must have freed up a 757 or two for EDI somewhere. Don’t see the double daily available to book as yet however?

[Porrohman]

Excellent news, looks like Dublin got the 767 upgrade on the JKF route this time around. Delta must have freed up a 757 or two for EDI somewhere. Don’t see the double daily available to book as yet however?
I think the double daily has been either misinterpreted by the media or been poorly drafted by Delta. I think it means there'll be two Delta flights per day at EDI; one to JFK and the other to BOS. I'd be amazed if Delta starts BOS as double daily.

[inOban]

That's what I was thinking too.

I've been considering that all the TATL from EDI are focussed on incoming passengers, because of the timings. If you are to attract traffic from more of Scotland, outside the Edinburgh area, you need westbound departures late enough to avoid an overnight stay before the flight. Even this flight, at 10.55, will mean getting to EDI by 9.00, given the extended security. Only the ORD flight at 12.00 could be described as user-friendly, while the Norwegian flights are at the other extreme.

[Sk1schoolsam]

I think the double daily has been either misinterpreted by the media or been poorly drafted by Delta. I think it means there'll be two Delta flights per day at EDI; one to JFK and the other to BOS. I'd be amazed if Delta starts BOS as double daily.

I agree that a double daily is optimistic to say the least but I based this on the Travel Weekly reporting:

” The new service is on top of the existing daily service to New York-JFK. The seasonal Boston route will operate twice every day during the peak summer months.”

i can see see how an error could have occurred. This was the only report to quote this.

[GoEDI]

That's what I was thinking too.

I've been considering that all the TATL from EDI are focussed on incoming passengers, because of the timings. If you are to attract traffic from more of Scotland, outside the Edinburgh area, you need westbound departures late enough to avoid an overnight stay before the flight. Even this flight, at 10.55, will mean getting to EDI by 9.00, given the extended security. Only the ORD flight at 12.00 could be described as user-friendly, while the Norwegian flights are at the other extreme.

Nothing to do with the passenger profile at EDI specifically, it is simply the most efficient way for US based carriers to schedule their transatlantic ops given the time difference etc. It's replicated Europe wide, with the odd exception at the likes of LHR. The flights are primarily timed to ensure maximum connecting opportunities at whatever US hub they are arriving into. For those not connecting it also means outbound pax don't lose a whole day at the start of their trip with a late arrival, so they are most certainly user friendly to outbound IMO.

UA ORD is an 1130 departure, BOS will only be 35mins earlier. Norwegian being EDI originating and no transfer pax at the US end is a different beast.

[inOban]

Fair enough. Why does the ORD a/c spend so much longer on the ground in EDI than the other TATL flights?
What proportion of pax are connecting onwards? By all accounts tgere are still many, possibly the majority, of TATL passengers who choose to fly via LHR or AMS. Is it just prices?

[GoEDI]

Fair enough. Why does the ORD a/c spend so much longer on the ground in EDI than the other TATL flights?
What proportion of pax are connecting onwards? By all accounts tgere are still many, possibly the majority, of TATL passengers who choose to fly via LHR or AMS. Is it just prices?

Not sure, presumably scheduling reasons as it staggers the EDI departure/US arrival times quite nicely which again will be to provide maximum connecting opportunities across all 3 UA flights.

Large amount of connections especially in summer, Florida always the main one.

[A350Saltire]

Fair enough. Why does the ORD a/c spend so much longer on the ground in EDI than the other TATL flights?
What proportion of pax are connecting onwards? By all accounts tgere are still many, possibly the majority, of TATL passengers who choose to fly via LHR or AMS. Is it just prices?

I am sure that UA use EDI to rotate aircraft round between their hubs, so the aircraft that comes in from ORD might head back to EWR or IAD and vice versa. They used to do this anyway.

i did wonder if DL would do the same with JFK and BOS.

[Plane mad 134]

Latest rumour I heard is Air Canada and Westjet both in talks with the airport for a year round Toronto service, fingers crossed this happens.

[Plane mad 134]

It seems like Aer Lingus will be using mainline aircraft from the 31st of March to Dublin on the morning service which is a nice increase in seats.

[Sk1schoolsam]

I am sure that UA use EDI to rotate aircraft round between their hubs, so the aircraft that comes in from ORD might head back to EWR or IAD and vice versa. They used to do this anyway.

i did wonder if DL would do the same with JFK and BOS.

is the Delta JFK route only 5 weekly in W18? Has their been cut from daily?

[inOban]

It's always been 5pw until the turn of the year, and suspended from then until the end of March.

[Sk1schoolsam]

It's always been 5pw until the turn of the year, and suspended from then until the end of March.

Thank you InOban,
I don’t expect an increase in aircraft size any time soon on this route if it’s not even daily yet. Besides looks like Delta are reducing the number of 767 in their fleet.

[VickersVicount]

it could be 763 high summer, but dont it expect it myself. They had opportunity previously with route changes and never redeployed. The 757 is a perfect fit. If it had the legs for ATL is might have given that a better chance of being a success.

[edinv]

It seems like Aer Lingus will be using mainline aircraft from the 31st of March to Dublin on the morning service which is a nice increase in seats.

Mo Th F & Su EI3250/1 A320 wef 31 March 19 (source expert flyer)

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Isn’t this still a STOBART flight using mainline equipment? There’s a scope clause agreement in play here IIRC.
Look at the flight numbers....

[Plane mad 134]

Loganair announced 4 new routes today to:
Bergen 3x weekly Emb135
Stavanger 4x weekly Emb135
Guernsey 1x weekly Emb135
Islay 1x daily Saab340

Isle of Man gets an extra weekly flight as well.

This is great to hear and there is a possiblity of a few more new routes in the coming months, now this was something I didn't see happening and Im really glad to see it though.

[01475]

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Islay in the long run. I wonder if this might be the beginning of us finding out which central belt airport can generate the most demand for flights to and from the islands (is serving both really going to be viable?) I suspect the answer might be something messy like that Edinburgh is better at generating demand to the Isles and Glasgow is better at generating demand from the isles?

[edi_local]

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Islay in the long run. I wonder if this might be the beginning of us finding out which central belt airport can generate the most demand for flights to and from the islands (is serving both really going to be viable?) I suspect the answer might be something messy like that Edinburgh is better at generating demand to the Isles and Glasgow is better at generating demand from the isles?

A lot of the GLA routes to the Isles are in competition with the Ferries that serve the West Coast, I suppose, with both offering discounts to locals. I think there is probably enough demand for both Airports with the small planes that Loganair use.I do wonder if PSO rules would apply if two cities were served as one would presumably be seen as a commercial venture rather than a lifeline link?

[Rob Royston]

A lot of the GLA routes to the Isles are in competition with the Ferries that serve the West Coast, I suppose, with both offering discounts to locals. I think there is probably enough demand for both Airports with the small planes that Loganair use.I do wonder if PSO rules would apply if two cities were served as one would presumably be seen as a commercial venture rather than a lifeline link?
GLA is where most island folk come and go to. SYY is served from both Central Belt airports but there is a lot more capacity to/from GLA. I think this flight is related to the code shares that Loganair have with a few other airlines. It will allow worldwide incomers to EDI to travel on to Islay.

[nighthawk117]

It'll be interesting to see what happens with Islay in the long run. I wonder if this might be the beginning of us finding out which central belt airport can generate the most demand for flights to and from the islands (is serving both really going to be viable?) I suspect the answer might be something messy like that Edinburgh is better at generating demand to the Isles and Glasgow is better at generating demand from the isles?

Glasgow is by far a better destination for shopping, so it's always going to be a popular destination amongst the locals. Edinburgh on the other hand, being a major tourist destination, opens up the isles to more tourism. This is going to be a major boost to the Islands economies.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Glasgow is by far a better destination for shopping, so it's always going to be a popular destination amongst the locals. Edinburgh on the other hand, being a major tourist destination, opens up the isles to more tourism. This is going to be a major boost to the Islands economies.

😊😊 Clearly not for this forum but can I politely disagree with you Nighthawk. Personally I love the shopping Edinburgh and do not agree that Glasgow is far better. 😊😊 Anyway just saying....

[Rutan16]

Interested party observation only; From a Lancastrian living in London having businesses in Kent and South Manchester knowing quite a few major retailers Sauchiehall Street shops and cafes are among the most profitable tranditional High Street premises outside London and the South East however I digress.

Edinburgh, York, Chester, Stratford on Avon and Oxford/ Cambridge are the primary points for inward tourism period.

Edinburgh Airport is ideally positioned to capitalise (no pun) on such traffic particularly from China and the US I suppose.

The fact that Hainan are operating aysimetric services probably supports the consensus that tourists either arrive or depart part of their itineraries elsewhere imho.

[01475]

I think we could all agree that regardless of the specific merits of Glasgow and Edinburgh as shopping destinations, Glasgow is generally more attuned to the needs of a destination for an islander visiting the mainland, not least in terms of social, health and commercial links (current and historic). But if I was going to try and persuade a tourist to fly to Islay I'd rather try and persuade them to fly from Edinburgh. (Edinburgh may also have the political links, but I can't imagine they are strong enough to generate a lot of traffic).

I'm genuinely fascinated to see how this resolves itself. If I were Loganair I'd have been too cautious to want to risk unsettling the status quo (I do think the answer will be messy and complicated). Stornoway might be big enough to support flights from both Glasgow and Edinburgh, but of course Stornoway has 4 times the number of passengers.

It is definitely wonderful news for the tourism industry, though. I hope it is marketed well!

[mwm991]

I've heard adverts recently on Clyde and Forth from Ryanair stating their summer 2019 fares are now on sale. I'm guessing there won't be any sort of official announcement regarding Scotland for next year then and its as you are with the booking engine.

[inOban]

Famous distilleries and a top100 golf course.

[Sk1schoolsam]

I've heard adverts recently on Clyde and Forth from Ryanair stating their summer 2019 fares are now on sale. I'm guessing there won't be any sort of official announcement regarding Scotland for next year then and its as you are with the booking engine.

Offical announcement about what?

[mwm991]

The usual press call that there seems to be for every summer/winter schedule release and as there has been for London, Manchester etc

[inOban]

And there are several routes which have not been loaded for S19, and prospective customers have no idea whether they've been dropped.

[EIFFS]

The recent budget will push the APD to £80.00 per person over the age of 16 from April next, this for economy class, fast getting to point where it’s cheaper to fly to Dublin then pick up a US flight, far quicker if you factor in pre clearance, one only has to look at the volume of traffic through Dublin compared with the population.

Easy to see that without a premium front end or onward connections Norwegian decided to walk, the route in terms of numbers has been successful, but when you have to fork out £12800 just in APD alone for every outbound flight ( based on 160 adult passengers) it’s not viable.

APD should be scrapped for all airports outside of LHR & LGW, of course this is not HMRC in Westminster to blame as this is a devolved responsibility to the Scottish assembly.

[inOban]

And how do you propose that the revenue from APD is replaced?

[Cozy F]

How about starting by Treasury offsetting punishment of their own regional economies by “Super-taxing” feeder passengers leaving the U.K. to transfer over EU hubs (Dublin, Amsterdam and others), and using funding generated from this to curb the increasingly ridiculous levels of tax they levy on their own assets, thus strengthening growth prospects for their own significant airports (outside London) like MAN, BHX, EDI??? Or is that too un-British?

[mullac30]

I'm not sure that Scotland will see the rise in APD, since i'm pretty sure its transfered to the Scottish controlled ADT which is still at the old charge.

[Rutan16]

One stop long haul on same ticket within 24 hours pays the Same tax levels.

Self connect adds risk and is effectively tax evasion.

Other than the legal cost of recovery outstripping the tax take value -You could risk a visit from the revenue.

Those frequent travelers ARE monitored however most tend to value time accept the bribes(miles, or similar awards) rather more than inconvenience of a break in their travel arrangements.

Preclearnce really isn’t such a benefit given the extra journey leg imho.

As to transiting Dublin the actual numbers of such passengers is rather smaller than many think - it’s a little over a million yes rising however not a statistically large element of the airports overall terminal passenger numbers close on thirty million a year.
Oh and much of the current growth is being generated from mainland Europe rather than the UK.

No the vast vast majority of UK -Dublin traffic remains point to point..

[willy wombat]

In what way is self connect tax “evasion “? Tax “avoidance “ yes but avoidance is perfectly legal, just like when you put money in an ISA. All this whinging about APD - the continued growth at Scottish airports, particularly EDI, shows the market can bear it.

[Rutan16]

Because the rule is quite clear and based on the that 24 hour time frame.

Self connect after 24 hours and no problem .Self connect or travel on the same ticket within 24 hours and the duty is Payable period and if you don’t that is evasion not avoidance which is a crime petty in know but still.

ISAs are hardly an analogous, Those are saving schemes specifically designed to encourage smaller saving investments from earnings already taxed elsewhere.

All that said the actual numbers deliberately using the self connect options particularly via Dublin are again probably rather smaller than representative within the aviation interests section we subscribe to here and in the greater scheme of things

Much of the traveling public live blissfully unaware lives and such things particularly irregular travellers whom are likely to visit either the consolidators or airlines directly will pay the taxes anyway.

Repeat and rewind Dublin is an growing connection point for the north altantic - total transfers a little over a million a year significant amouts of which are from or to mainland Europe.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

And how do you propose that the revenue from APD is replaced
Well we could stop the fiscal incontinence that affects any org which is allowed to spend other peope’s money? i.e. HMG and the % of my earnings they take. They salami sliced departments to protect the voracious health budget with the result prisons and justic are on their knees, instead of taking a proper strategic view of what things HMG had no business being in at all. All this “austerity” and they stil need APD and yet can afford to fund billions in charity to countries with their own space program like India?
Given we are STILL borrowing to spend and the deficit is still not closed and the National Debt looks as if we’ve been at war for years, it doesn’t matter as Team Blue Liar or Red Shyster will still try and buy your vote borrowing against your OWN MONEY. Politicians are just oxygen thieves with media representation, all of them.

[Flightrider]

Rutan16, what you've written is just complete rubbish and shows a total mis-understanding of the law.

The liability to calculate and remit APD to HMRC rests upon the airline. The airline is obliged to remit the correct APD for the ticket it has sold to the customer and in the case of a passenger on a DIY connection flying EDI-DUB-EDI, it correctly remit short-haul APD even if that customer has a separate ticket DUB-BDL-DUB. If the liability rested with the individual passenger then there would be an argument that your statements would be correct. However, it does not. The airline carrying the passenger on departure from the UK is correctly calculating its liability to pay short-haul APD for the EDI-DUB leg which is what it has sold to that customer in that transaction. Only where a single or conjunction ticket is sold for the EDI-DUB-BDL-DUB-EDI roundtrip does the higher APD become payable.

If one takes your argument to its logical conclusion, then a self-connect passenger flying AMS-LGW-OAK-LGW-AMS on EZY and DY would be able to reclaim (or just not pay) the UK APD paid on the easyJet ticket AMS-LGW-AMS and the Norwegian ticket LGW-OAK-LGW - so a not insubstantial sum. They cannot. Spreadsheet Phil has the lot and keeps it.

I don't mind folk getting on their high horses, honestly, but it does stretch the boundaries when the factual basis of such postings is so far off the mark!

[Rutan16]

No a journey starting outside the UK but via the UK is not duty payable .

Of cause you are correct in that your flight with Ryanair wozit or who ever from the UK to Dublin is paid at short haul rates not disputed , however the layover period is a catch all it’s there in black and white from several readings and it states that a layover period between flights should be 24 hours if not to be subject to the long haul duty levels for the entire journey.

Now I don’t think anyone has been proceuted its pretty hard to chase a tax liability on a flight outside of the UK isn’t it .

imho the law and regulation is really a mess or diliberately poorly written. After all it was partly introduced as green tax and it’s certianly destroyed competitive domestic air travel.

And the rates are now at extautionate levels without doubt.

[Flightrider]

Yes, but it is the airline's responsibility to remit, not the individual's. You're missing the point. The individual cannot be prosecuted as it is the airline's responsibility to report and remit APD applicable to the ticket(s) that they have sold to the customer. Please do re-read APD Notice 550 and you might get it!

[EIFFS]

Yes, but it is the airline's responsibility to remit, not the individual's. You're missing the point. The individual cannot be prosecuted as it is the airline's responsibility to report and remit APD applicable to the ticket(s) that they have sold to the customer. Please do re-read APD Notice 550 and you might get it!

100% correct, the 24 hour rule applies to through tickets only, flights booked as separate legs, where you clear arrivals and re check in are and more importantly could not be covered, the 24 hour rule was introduced to stop airlines seeking advantage by a short stop over and thus evading duty, not passengers,impossible to police anyway, who is to say your plans didn’t change and Dublin or Copenhagen doesn’t give a stuff about a HMRC tax raising measure that is killing the business outside of LGW & LHR

[Plane mad 134]

Hurghada and Malaga ex EDI as winter only W19. Not sure if replacements for others/previous or if truly expanded winter program.
Is this a Eurowings programme as I cant find the flights yet on the Eurowings website?

[canberra97]

Is this a Eurowings programme as I cant find the flights yet on the Eurowings website?

The fact that they are more than likely charter flights flown on behalf of a tour operator is the reason that you can't find them on the Eurowings website!

[LandingConfig]

How did Eurowings come into this? These are TUI routes.

[PDXCWL45]

How did Eurowings come into this? These are TUI routes.
Eurowings operate charters on behalf of TUI.

[awwdabaaby]

In Germany they do

[inOban]

Apparently Icelandair are taking over (-rescuing from near bankruptcy) WOW. With GLA being a very long established Icelandair route, and EDI being WIW/Easyjet, will there be changes?

[VickersVicount]

I doubt anyone will know at this stage... the ink is not even dry. It has been suggested they will be kept as seperate entities. FI at GLA is sometimes their 3rd busiest UK route.

[Breathe]

I doubt anyone will know at this stage... the ink is not even dry. It has been suggested they will be kept as seperate entities.
I can see WOW being phased out and being fully integrated with Icelandair in the medium to long run.


FI at GLA is sometimes their 3rd busiest UK route.
Considering they only fly 4 passenger routes, I'm not sure if that is an accolade worth mentioning. ;)

[mwm991]

They did fly Belfast and Aberdeen as well did they not? They barely lasted a year or two.

[Sk1schoolsam]

I can see WOW being phased out and being fully integrated with Icelandair in the medium to long run.


Considering they only fly 4 passenger routes, I'm not sure if that is an accolade worth mentioning. ;)

Unless I am looking at the wrong airline, WOW seam to fly lots of routes especially to the US and Canada, and EDE flights are bookable on flights including connections onward to Mid Sept. am I missing something?

[canberra97]

Unless I am looking at the wrong airline, WOW seam to fly lots of routes especially to the US and Canada, and EDE flights are bookable on flights including connections onward to Mid Sept. am I missing something?

No your not missing anything as your correct in your assumption but considering that this news is only just breaking I'm sure that the booking engine will still reflect the original WOW schedules.

Icelandair have already stated in it's official press release that WOW will continue to operate as a stand alone subsidiary for the forseable future although I personally think that will change at some point.

FYI it's EDI not EDE!

[Plane mad 134]

I heard on another website Westjet pending a Uk announcement, wonder if this could have anything to do with edinburgh?

[Sk1schoolsam]

No your not missing anything as your correct in your assumption but considering that this news is only just breaking I'm sure that the booking engine will still reflect the original WOW schedules.

Icelandair have already stated in it's official press release that WOW will continue to operate as a stand alone subsidiary for the forseable future although I personally think that will change at some point.

FYI it's EDI not EDE!

😊 I know it’s EDI, just keeping your on your toes 😊 Just a simple typo that I misssed... thank you 👍

[Breathe]

They did fly Belfast and Aberdeen as well did they not? They barely lasted a year or two.

Those routes were technically operated by Icelandair Group's regional carrier, Air Iceland Connect.

[Plane mad 134]

Ryanair flights to Derry now loaded in at 5 weekly.

[inOban]

Any of the other missing routes loaded?

[Plane mad 134]

Ryanair have just announced new routes to :
Luxembourg 3x weekly
Billund 2x weekly

They have also confirmed all new winter routes will continue next summer.

Link: www.insider.co.uk

If the link doesnt work search Edinburgh Airport on google go to news and it will come up.

[inOban]

Technically Billund is a resumption - it operated for several summers in the past. And Luxembourg replaces Hahn.
At least one route - Szczecin - doesn't have days/dates in the calendar, or it didn't an hour ago!
I gather there will be nine based a/c next summer.

[Plane mad 134]

Well with the new routes begining to come in now for next summer and there is a few rumours out there does anyone have any ideas about new routes for next summer?

I have heard a rumour about:
Westjet to Toronto
Emirates are doing something major in January to do with there UK operations
Easyjet to announce a few more routes with an extra based aircraft.

All of this is just rumours but its fun to guess.

[4567]

I’m curious what the EK rumour could be!

[ld0595]

I’d bet my money EK announcing one of the Glasgow flights to an A380. Doubt they will change anything in Edinburgh.

[mullac30]

I’d bet my money EK announcing one of the Glasgow flights to an A380. Doubt they will change anything in Edinburgh.
That'd be my guess considering the work being done to the EK gate at GLA

[VickersVicount]

i wouldnt believe everything dredged up from other forums....

[Plane mad 134]

True the A380 Glasgow rumours has been brought up many times and proved false but who knows maybe this time it will happen as was said it is just all rumours until confirmed.

[mullac30]

I was the one to find and send the copy of the planning permission for the GLA A380 gate to the GLA thread, so i'm pretty sure I can believe it.

[VickersVicount]

....thats not an EDI 'rumour' however

[Plane mad 134]

Yes so back to Edinburgh what do you guys think could happen?

[CraigJay]

Air China have been doing a lot of advertising in scotland recently, could that be the next intercontinental route announced? Possibility of shanghai although that is not Air China's dominant international hub by any means but certainly not going to be beijing or hong kong.
Air China have been trying to launch MAN for a while but it seems to be continually delayed for many reasons. I can’t see EDI jumping ahead of MAN, especially when there’s so little room left at Shanghai.

[mullac30]

The China link was originally going to be PVG but with China Eastern, it's not inconceivable that they are still looking at the route.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Air China ....,but certainly not going to be beijing or hong kong.

Just curious as to why so certain. 😊
Is it because Beijing already covered with sufficient capacity and Hong Kong not enough demand....or other reasons?

[EGPO]

Was EY AUH daily again for high summer and going back to just 5 / wk now?
EY is a bit of a mixed bag on this route with fluctuating frequencies and loads.

What type of Aircraft is on this Route is it a 777?

[inOban]

What type of Aircraft is on this Route is it a 777?

Where have you been? The route ended at the end of September and was replaced by Emirates.

[CraigJay]

Just curious as to why so certain. 😊
Is it because Beijing already covered with sufficient capacity and Hong Kong not enough demand....or other reasons?
Air China don’t fly to anywhere in Europe from Hong Kong. I don’t see it as being totally unlikely that air China would serve Beijing, it’s their main hub and they’d hopefully offer a more regular and convenient service than hainan. I don’t think we’ll see air China anytime soon though, I think it’s more likely we’ll see Cathay Pacific, especially since they’re doing very well at Dublin.

[Plane mad 134]

Hong Kong would be served by Cathay most likely on the A350-900 but the demand is there should they want to try the route, China Eastern to Shanghai is another route that could work but we need to wait and see if the Hainan route works first seeing as its still scheduled as 2x weekly next summer.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Where have you been? The route ended at the end of September and was replaced by Emirates
Be nice, not everyone has their focus so much on aviation! Some of my friends even have wives and girlfriends.....

It took MAN years to get Cathay back, their European presence is tiny, DUS being recently dropped but DUB added to MAN, LGW and 5 daily LHR. EDI would be interesting but given Hainan have not set the world on fire with the toe in the water route, and it’s highly seasonal and Y focussed, particularly geared towards Chinese POS, not sure CX would be looking too closely at EDI. Unserved market it may be but does it have the year round business traffic DUB has? And unlike DUB, the market fragments GLA vs. EDI on critical mass.

Of course I said DL wouldn’t launch BOS-EDI so expect an imminent press release from Swire......

[VickersVicount]

We read 'elsewhere' of glowing reports on HA load factors? Is that not the case... ?

[Sk1schoolsam]

..,,Unserved market it may be but does it have the year round business traffic DUB has?

And unlike DUB, the market fragments GLA vs. EDI on critical mass.

I would like to believe between the banking, insurance, IT and Invesment sectors in central Scotland their would be the year round business traffic to HK.
Good point on market fragmentation however diluting the critical mass. Another factor will be competitive fairs buy EK and QR for the one stop connection, however this has not put them off for MAN.

Heard any more on the WestJet rumour anyone?

[ld0595]

I flew into Manchester with CX back in the summer and noticed at least 15 other people from the same flight on my train up to Edinburgh. I was pretty surprised to see that many people - I can imagine that most folk would connect in Frankfurt, Heathrow or elsewhere and avoid the 3.5 hour train journey north and 2 hour wait. I'm sure that between O&D traffic and connections to mainland China, Australia etc, CX could sustain a 3x weekly service year-round. I'm sure I read a while back that the Dublin flight is doing especially well with connections into Mainland China, so I can imagine that a CX service be a much better fit than HU for inbound Chinese tourists.

For the Hainan flight, I guess we'll have to wait and see what the numbers say. The flight arrival/departure times at both ends, poor connections into mainland China and 1x weekly frequency can't be helping it. (Yes I know there's the option to go via Dublin, but this means a 4am arrival and a 3 hour wait until you even leave for Edinburgh!) I had a quick look on Expertflyer about 30 minutes before this morning's flight took off and I think there must have been not much more than 120 seats taken. I hope the service pulls through but it's certainly off to a rocky start it seems.

[VickersVicount]

CX or HA, not both. A CX service would murder HA. Its not an infinite expandable two way street. Its limited outbound and seasonal.

[LandingConfig]

Where have you been? The route ended at the end of September and was replaced by Emirates.

It's not a replacement.

[canberra97]

Unlikely to see a second carrier on beijing plus (I am not certain) I believe they have a policy that two national airlines cant serve the same international route and air china dont do europe from hong kong only Cathy pacific if its going to happen.

Just curious about Air China's recent advertisement spree, some substance will be behind it and of course Scotland related.

China have recently relaxed the rules regarding the one airline one route policy although that doesn't mean that EDI will ever have competition from Beijing.

Air China don't operate any long haul flights from Hong Kong so that discussion is rather irrelevant.

I think everyone is getting a bit carried away with these ''made up'' rumours regarding EDI gaining a flight to Hong Kong if it does ever happen it's going to be a long wait.

As Skipness points out it took years for MAN to regain CX and I should imagine that it will take just as long for EDI.

CX are very conservative regarding their long haul expansion, the airline started CPH and DUS only to cancel both destinations not long after starting them and that would more than likely be the scenario at EDI.

A question for SchoolboySam

Where are you getting these so called rumours regarding Westjet and EDI, are you sure that it's not a fragment of your imagination?

Rumours need to have at least some substance behind them otherwise there just wishful thinking rumours more than likely started by over enthusiastic schoolboys.

[inOban]

It's not a replacement.

As other posters have pointed out, it seemed a remarkable coincidence that EK started the day after EY stopped. There hav been rumours of a tie up between the two airlines.

[LandingConfig]

As other posters have pointed out, it seemed a remarkable coincidence that EK started the day after EY stopped. There hav been rumours of a tie up between the two airlines.

Yes, but they are rumours. They remian competitors flying to different airports.

[canberra97]

As other posters have pointed out, it seemed a remarkable coincidence that EK started the day after EY stopped. There hav been rumours of a tie up between the two airlines.

In which Tim Clarke CEO of Emirates has recently made a press release in which he states that they are just rumours and that there is not going to be any tie up between the two airlines although though they will look at cooperating with one another in various parts of their operations.

The rumours regarding a tie up or merger between Emirates and Etihad are way off the mark although in the years going forward I can see some sort of tie up between the two airlines but for now there is no substance behind these rumours.

Etihad is drastically reducing it's network and is delaying aircraft deliveries so we're see where the airline finds itself in the coming years.

I personally think that Emirates and Etihad will end up merging at some point but there are too many Egos involved and I don't think that I need to explain who they are.

The management at EDI obviously knew when Etihad were ceasing the airport and probably when Emirates made their decision to fly from the airport it was obviously a good business move to start DXB the day after Etihad ceased AUH, no conspiracies no coincidence just good marketing.

[Sk1schoolsam]

China have recently relaxed the rules regarding the one airline one route policy although that doesn't mean that EDI will ever have competition from Beijing.

Air China don't operate any long haul flights from Hong Kong so that discussion is rather irrelevant.

I think everyone is getting a bit carried away with these ''made up'' rumours regarding EDI gaining a flight to Hong Kong if it does ever happen it's going to be a long wait.

As Skipness points out it took years for MAN to regain CX and I should imagine that it will take just as long for EDI.

CX are very conservative regarding their long haul expansion, the airline started CPH and DUS only to cancel both destinations not long after starting them and that would more than likely be the scenario at EDI.

A question for SchoolboySam

Where are you getting these so called rumours regarding Westjet and EDI, are you sure that it's not a fragment of your imagination?

Rumours need to have at least some substance behind them otherwise there just wishful thinking rumours more than likely started by over enthusiastic schoolboys.

Thank goodness I have a sense of humour Canberra97 otherwise I would interpret your manipulation of my Login Avatar as rude. 😝

If you take the time to look back at earlier posts you will understand I refer to:

https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/images/mobile/misc/unknown.gif (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/member.php?u=476444)
Plane mad 134 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/member.php?u=476444) , 22nd Oct 2018 20:38
Latest rumour I heard is Air Canada and Westjet both in talks with the airport for a year round Toronto service, fingers crossed this happens

[GayFriendly]

I read somewhere recently that HKG is by far and away the biggest unserved destination in the Far East from BHX as well. I also know as a cast iron fact that CX have had talks with BHX in the past but as Skipness points out I doubt they want to dilute demand from LHR and MAN and year round front end traffic is key. The West Midlands has very strong business links with China through the car industry but this hasn't led to any flights being launched to anywhere in China. At EDI I should imagine demand for HK can be satisfied by the many one stop offerings through Europe or the sand pit.

As for CX if they see that people are happy to fly to MAN and catch a train to BHX, EDI and sonon, surely they will add extra frequency at MAN and xapitalise on their very successful operation there rather than all the costs associated with flying into a new airport and building up a new route from scratch? This is why they won't be seen at BHX for the foreseeable, if ever, I could see them at EDI but not right now...I am in HK this week and flew Swiss from BHX, despite the transfer in ZRH it was still more time and much more cost competitive than driving to MAN, parking my car for 10 days and flying CX from there and I can catch the train to BHX it's only a 20 min journey, although I know a lot of Midlander's do use the CX MAN flight so as ever it's horses for courses.

Just for info there were 8 other pax on my BHX-ZRH flight going to HK plus a similar number for SIN and a couple for Sao Paulo

[Plane mad 134]

Cathay are doing well at Dublin, think we’ll see them in the near future at EDI. We know China Eastern have EDI in their plans for a route to Shanghai so we’ll see what happens there.
Edinburgh only having one route to Canada, a seasonal one as well, is nowhere near good enough so I’d expect that to improve soon. Westjet have been talking with edinburgh so we might see that come to fruition or we might see rouge/ac mainline going year round.

True Sam I did hear that Westjet were in talks, Craigjay has said it here and there was an announcement on another thread that they are pending a Uk announcement, whether that comes to fruition I dont know😃

[4eyed anorak]

Record October!2018
Oct
% vs Last Year
Domestic
489,128
5.2%
International
833,274
9.5%
Total
1,322,402
7.9%
MAT
14,098,698
6.0%
Regards 4ea

[Plane mad 134]

Brewdog now open at the airport in the new terminal extension.

[Plane mad 134]

UA21 B777-200 N69020 from Amsterdam to Washington diverted to Edinburgh with a crew member unwell.

[Porrohman]

Amsterdam to Houston.

[Plane mad 134]

Ah yes sorry about that, also on another note there is a big rumour that Edinburgh to Toronto will be announced imminently.

[4eyed anorak]

Looks like Turkish will be sending their 737-9 MAX Istanbul – Edinburgh eff 28OCT19 2 weekly

Regards 4ea

[VickersVicount]

Ah yes sorry about that, also on another note there is a big rumour that Edinburgh to Toronto will be announced imminently.
What is this big rumour you talk of and from who? (surely not the usual suspects?!)

[Haldane90]

What is this big rumour you talk of and from who? (surely not the usual suspects?!)

Westjet S19

[A350Saltire]

Westjet S19

This has been on the cards for a while now and we know that Westjet have been talking to EDI recently. There was also rumour of a AC going year round with the MAX to replace the seasonal Rouge 763.

Canada is still underserved from EDI IMHO.

[Haldane90]

This has been on the cards for a while now and we know that Westjet have been talking to EDI recently. There was also rumour of a AC going year round with the MAX to replace the seasonal Rouge 763.

Canada is still underserved from EDI IMHO.

Canada is vastly underserved from EDI considering the amount of hubs it links to in the States. I know the team at EDI have been speaking to Westjet for quite some time now and heard YYC being mentioned, this looks not to be the case but i still expect a east coast hub will come to fruition.

[VickersVicount]

EK at EDI in Oct CAA stats doing an amazing start! 13K in the first month on less than daily, will leapfrog NCL soon I expect. Huge impact on GLA service- down 14%, the dizzy heights of month on month growth are gone and Id be surprised if an A380 could salvage that.
And even with all that.. QR up significantly!

[CraigJay]

GLA still had an 80% load factor so still decent, overall EK passengers up by around 7k in Scotland, plenty room for all. Great to see QR holding up strong, obviously they have the advantage of being in OneWorld. Long may it continue.

[A350Saltire]

EK at EDI in Oct CAA stats doing an amazing start! 13K in the first month on less than daily, will leapfrog NCL soon I expect. Huge impact on GLA service- down 14%, the dizzy heights of month on month growth are gone and Id be surprised if an A380 could salvage that.
And even with all that.. QR up significantly!

QR have done a great job of marketing the A350. Good to see a very decent start for EK.

[OltonPete]

EK at EDI in Oct CAA stats doing an amazing start! 13K in the first month on less than daily, will leapfrog NCL soon I expect. Huge impact on GLA service- down 14%, the dizzy heights of month on month growth are gone and Id be surprised if an A380 could salvage that.
And even with all that.. QR up significantly!

Dubai - 13341 - 58 sectors = 230 per flight and 64% load factor per my calculations using FR24 for number of flights and 360 three-class aircraft although some 354 seat did operate. Unless I have my figures wrong I would not say amazing? I would say 90% load factor is amazing 75-90% would be good and 60-75% average but I suppose for the first month it isn't bad but amazing is generous.

Qatar just made 70% load factor which is okay especially when compared to BHX, CWL and MAN.

Pete

[Sk1schoolsam]

Hot of the press:

“Lufthansa is extending Munich – Edinburgh service in S19, becoming a year-round operation. From 31MAR19, Airbus A319 aircraft will serve this route 3 times a week” c/o Routes Online

[inOban]

Since this route is moving over entirely to LH from Eurowings from S19, this is actually a reduction in frequency, since between them they fly daily ex Tuesday in W18. Or will Eurowings be returning?

[Sk1schoolsam]

Since this route is moving over entirely to LH from Eurowings from S19, this is actually a reduction in frequency, since between them they fly daily ex Tuesday in W18. Or will Eurowings be returning?

Looks suspiciously like a reduction as no direct fights appear on the Eurowings S19 schedule for Munich. Seams a strange decision?

[inOban]

I believe that their policy is that the longhaul hubs will be served by LH and other destinations, DUS and CGN, by Eurowings. Of course Easyjet fly daily most of the year.

[Plane mad 134]

Flybe announced a new daily service to Heathrow bringing the total flights to 5x daily on the Dash8.

[VickersVicount]

LH MUC 3/week year round from S19

[inOban]

LH MUC 3/week year round from S19

See posts earlier today! You've got to be quick on pprune....

[4567]

I was at LHR last night and I have to say, seeing the q400 next to an airport bursting with a380s is the daftest thing.... it was part of what was a very large queue to leave on a busy runway and I have to say I almost didn’t notice it next to the sea of 777, a380s and virgin 787s in the queue haha.

[CabinCrewe]

any idea how Hainan did last month (in the low frequency mishmash triangle routing?)

[inOban]

The CAA stats say 2503 passengers in October, but I can't remember how many to that covers.

[GoEDI]

That's just the EDI non stop pax. Total route capacity for the month was 8348 (large number of B789 subs, if it was all B788 as is scheduled 7242), so it's not great based on pax demand alone. However, the large number of upgrades when there seems to be no need for it based on pax demand could suggest high cargo loads.

EDI has been carrying comfortably more than DUB on the non stop routings up to this stage so I don't expect the DUB non stop figure to be anything special either. For example, the EDI Oct figure is comparable to what DUB carried in August.

It's not entirely surprising, as the route is hardly the most attractive or convenient option in it's current state.

[Plane mad 134]

Does anyone know why Turkish have put A330-200 TC-JNB on todays service?

[GoEDI]

Yesterday's was cancelled, so will be to clear the backlog.

[Breathe]

With Royal Air Maroc joining OneWorld it got me thinking that it was a little bit surprising that FR or U2 haven't tried running RAK from EDI.

I know U2 used to operate GLA-RAK, but unless my memory is hazy neither operator has operated EDI-RAK?

[goldeneye]

With Royal Air Maroc joining OneWorld it got me thinking that it was a little bit surprising that FR or U2 haven't tried running RAK from EDI.

I know U2 used to operate GLA-RAK, but unless my memory is hazy neither operator has operated EDI-RAK?

FR did flights operate to RAK a few years ago from EDI.

Dont remember U2 ever serving Morocco from Scotland but I could be wrong.

[CabinCrewe]

EZY- GLA RAK 2014, pulled apparently due to Tunisia/Morroco North African downturn. Carried reasonable numbers.

[Plane mad 134]

United set to be anouncing some new routes today, Im guessing Edinburgh may get something like a 763 on the Newark and Chicago to go year round, any thoughts?

[4eyed anorak]

United upgraded their MAN-EWR flights to a 764 and various other european destinations. If EDI was going to be upgraded then it would've been already anounced.

Regards 4ea

[Sk1schoolsam]

United set to be anouncing some new routes today, Im guessing Edinburgh may get something like a 763 on the Newark and Chicago to go year round, any thoughts?

So far only new long haul routes from San Francisco have been announced on their news releases.

[GrahamK]

Air France supposedly reducing EDI-CDG to 2 x daily mainline A318 next summer

[OltonPete]

Air France supposedly reducing EDI-CDG to 2 x daily mainline A318 next summer

Nothing to doubt here at the moment -it is bookable at twice daily A318 but this is nothing unusual as the AF/KLM group are cutting a lot of UK capacity.

Has KLM ever gone 3 daily on EDI before in winter in recent times? The 6 week period until 16 Feb shows just 3 a day although 2 x 738 and 1 x 739. Glasgow also 3 daily of which one is City Hopper although 3 mainline daily in summer (4 high summer).

As I say not just EDI as AF at MAN is now showing as 3 x A319's (they used to get 320's and 321's) and BHX has the lunchtime downgraded to a HOP 190 but do get the A320 in the morning and A321 in the evening. Also KLM only going to 5 daily at BHX next summer (was 6) but 4 mainline instead of 3 and Manchester is 6 daily with 3 City Hopper at times!!!

Pete.

[Plane mad 134]

Nothing from Easyjet so far, maybe another British announcement soon?

[tartan 201]

Has KLM ever gone 3 daily on EDI before in winter in recent times? The 6 week period until 16 Feb shows just 3 a day although 2 x 738 and 1 x 739. Glasgow also 3 daily of which one is City Hopper although 3 mainline daily in summer (4 high summer).


Yes they have Pete. If you look here (http://www.egph.co.uk/JAN-DEC17%20regulars.pdf), you'll see it was only three-daily from early January 2017 to mid-February 2017 although they went from three- to five-daily in mid-February. They followed a similar pattern in the couple of years prior. I don't know how many flights operated during January and February 2018; the CAA data for January and February 2018 shows a broadly similar number of passengers to those months in 2017 so I guess the number of flights may have been similar too.

[OltonPete]

Yes they have Pete. If you look here (http://www.egph.co.uk/JAN-DEC17%20regulars.pdf), you'll see it was only three-daily from early January 2017 to mid-February 2017 although they went from three- to five-daily in mid-February. They followed a similar pattern in the couple of years prior. I don't know how many flights operated during January and February 2018; the CAA data for January and February 2018 shows a broadly similar number of passengers to those months in 2017 so I guess the number of flights may have been similar too.


Cheers although surprised as they have never reduced BHX during the winter season once it starts but I suppose slightly different markets and BHX business routes generally hold up well in winter to Europe. In general the seat reductions are quite small but still significant in one way as over the last few years capacity has increased slowly.

Pete

[inOban]

Remember that EDI also has up to three flights every day by Easyjet. The KLM flight must be almost entirely for longhaul connections.

[OltonPete]

Remember that EDI also has up to three flights every day by Easyjet. The KLM flight must be almost entirely for longhaul connections.

I have just checked the easyjet January schedule and yes quite leisure orientated as you would expect with 3 flights Monday, Friday and Sunday but one Tuesday, Wednesday and Saturday. KLM seemed to operate 3 daily last January looking at the CAA punctuality stats which I suppose was all very sensible for the time of year.

Pete

[SWBKCB]

The KLM flight must be almost entirely for longhaul connections.

Based on what?

[OntimeexceptACARS]

InOban you are wrong. In my time working there, Euro connections outnumbered long hauls hugely on the morning and afternoon flights, though there were a fair number of US connections (on Northwest then). Only the evening flights had a few South American connections, plus the rest as locals.

Mind you, EDI connectivity has improved massively since then, but KLM's European reach is humungous.

[inOban]

Sorry, I should have just said connections, I accept that there will be many pax using AMS to reach European destinations still not served directly at a decent frequency.

[inOban]

https://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/first-1-million-november

All those extra Ryanair routes..

[A350Saltire]

https://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/first-1-million-november

All those extra Ryanair routes..

Over one million passengers in November and almost 12% growth all round - great numbers for the airport.

[ld0595]

Fantastic numbers. Wasn’t too long ago that Edinburgh was celebrating passing a million passengers in a month (2013 IIRC.) Within the next year or two we’ll be looking at 1 million+ even in the quietest months.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Over one million passengers in November and almost 12% growth all round - great numbers for the airport.
*WELL* beyond anything the terminal was intended for, not to mention the approach roads. Assuming a proper international new Scottish lowland airport could never be built given the cost of buying and closing GLA/EDI, it will be interesting to see what the terminal will look like by the mid 20s. Great result all the same !

[inOban]

The terminal extension was just in time.

[Plane mad 134]

Seems Thai Airways are advertising Edinburgh on their Twitter page.

[VickersVicount]

.... as a special onestop fare via BRU

[ScotsSLF]

The terminal extension was just in time.

Having started to fly fairly regularly from EDI I do feel that the terminal extension is not befitting of an international airport. It is basically a cheaply built pre-fab and I doubt it will last long into the 20s. It really needs upgraded. In contrast I have found security a lot easier than many people have made out and certainly not the nightmare that is LTN or STN

[Plane mad 134]

I just done a dummy booking for W19 on the AirFrance website and it currently shows 1x daily A319 on the morning rotation and and 1x daily A318 on the afternoon, so an increase on the summer timetable.

[BAladdy]

I just done a dummy booking for W19 on the AirFrance website and it currently shows 1x daily A319 on the morning rotation and and 1x daily A318 on the afternoon, so an increase on the summer timetable.
it would be a very slight capacity increase of about 12 seats per day.

[Plane mad 134]

Good news as Ba Cityflyer are increasing Florence to 2x weekly with an extra flight on Saturday's. So 1x weekly E170 and also 1x weekly E190.

[inOban]

I notice that EDI have been very quick to add the extra Florence flight to their timetable page. Not so good at removing the WOW flights which ended months ago and will only operate in peak season this year, but still appear thrice weekly.

[4eyed anorak]

EDI to see the TUI 737max from May 19 onwards.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/282310/thomson-airways-s19-short-haul-routes-additions-as-of-04jan19/

Regards 4ea

[CabinCrewe]

couldnt see any mention of EDI on that provided link?
How about this one
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/282311/thomson-airways-s19-737-max-8-operations-as-of-04jan19/

[Breathe]

I read in the Evening News that Burger King are going to be opening up at EDI. I laughed out loud when I read this statement though:

Gail Taylor, Director of Retail and Property at Edinburgh Airport said: “One of the brands passengers have continuously mentioned they want to see at Edinburgh Airport is Burger King so we’ve listened and are delighted to deliver that for them."

AYE RIGHT! :eek:

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/burger-king-set-to-open-at-edinburgh-airport-this-year-1-4852587

[A350Saltire]

I read in the Evening News that Burger King are going to be opening up at EDI. I laughed out loud when I read this statement though:



AYE RIGHT! :eek:

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/burger-king-set-to-open-at-edinburgh-airport-this-year-1-4852587

Why is that so hard to believe? EDI has been missing a fast food outlet for a while and a lot of people just like to grab something quickly before a flight rather than have a proper sit down meal.

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Blimey, nothing to see here folks. Other than lots of noisy children driving other passengers nuts....

[nighthawk117]

where's it going to go? The terminal is pretty much full retail wise as it is! Although if they can squeeze it in, it would certainly prove popular. As much as I'd rather sit down and have a proper burger from one of the restaurants, often when in a rush you just dont have time. not to mention finding a free table in Wetherspoons can be almost impossible most of the time!

Didnt there used to be a Burger King in the old land side food court, back before they build the extension?

[A350Saltire]

where's it going to go? The terminal is pretty much full retail wise as it is! Although if they can squeeze it in, it would certainly prove popular. As much as I'd rather sit down and have a proper burger from one of the restaurants, often when in a rush you just dont have time. not to mention finding a free table in Wetherspoons can be almost impossible most of the time!

Didnt there used to be a Burger King in the old land side food court, back before they build the extension?

I could be wrong but I thought it was going in the new extension where there is quite alot of space for additional retail units.

[gghdev]

Hey, newbie here.

where's it going to go? The terminal is pretty much full retail wise as it is!

I wonder if they plan to develop the space where the previous exit to domestic reclaim was? Similarly, I wonder if they plan to use the equivalent space downstairs for more check-in desks. Although they have absolutely no reason to do so, I wish they'd be more open and detailed about their development plans.

Having started to fly fairly regularly from EDI I do feel that the terminal extension is not befitting of an international airport. It is basically a cheaply built pre-fab and I doubt it will last long into the 20s. It really needs upgraded.

The whole building is now an endless series of extensions and bolt-ons since it opened in the 1970s. The passenger flow through the terminal is awkward to say the least. I flew EasyJet into EDI for the first time in years last month, and the walk from Gate 3 to the new domestic reclaim is long, but I guess not compared to larger airports. Crucially, though, it's not intuitive and you feel like you're walking down a fire exit when you finally get to the stairs. I think the city "deserves" a new terminal, designed according to modern airport design standards, but I'm expecting further ad hoc extensions until the piers can be extended no further. I can't see the current owner or any potential owner deciding to risk a brand new build before it's absolutely necessary?

[Plane mad 134]

Well the masterplan shows they plan to keep extending the terminal until they can reach at least 35 million passengers per annum.

[gghdev]

Ah, so 35 million is the magic number. They'll need to get creative to keep things moving in that space when they reach that number.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Disappointing to see a lack of growth from Thomson Airways at EDI. Although they are deploying a 737 Max 8 in S19, I don’t see any route expansion on short haul, nor on long haul with their 757, 767 or 787 fleet. This is in contrast to other UK and Irish airports for S19. Insufficient market?

On reflection i also also don’t remember seeing much in the way of expansion from Jet2 in S19 posted, where as GLA has picked up some additions.

As for the rumours on WestJet / Air Canada....
Lets just day I will not hold my breath.

[CabinCrewe]

EDI has all the markets covered that longhaul TOM might offer (outwith package tours), with their extensive connecting US routes through NYC etc to cover Florida, Caribbean and Mexico if needed. The TOM 757 routes are on their way out and most can be covered by MAX. Routes to Egypt, Boa Vista etc that may have needed 757 dont justify 767/787s.
The current few week high summer peak TOM Florida/Cancun have stagnated for 8 years now, so think it unlikely that pattern will change. They carry good loads but are never 100% full hence why they presumably dont add more.
It will be the age old 'shifting deckchairs' we've heard before from TOM I would think rather than dramatic expansion at EDI where the low cost short haul leisure market is already squeezed by FR/EZY/J2 dominance.

[A350Saltire]

EDI has all the markets covered that longhaul TOM might offer (outwith package tours), with their extensive connecting US routes through NYC etc to cover Florida, Caribbean and Mexico if needed. The TOM 757 routes are on their way out and most can be covered by MAX. Routes to Egypt, Boa Vista etc that may have needed 757 dont justify 767/787s.
The current few week high summer peak TOM Florida/Cancun have stagnated for 8 years now, so think it unlikely that pattern will change. They carry good loads but are never 100% full hence why they presumably dont add more.
It will be the age old 'shifting deckchairs' we've heard before from TOM I would think rather than dramatic expansion at EDI where the low cost short haul leisure market is already squeezed by FR/EZY/J2 dominance.


92% load factor on Sanford in July 18, 99% load factor on Cancun. Seems like there is scope for additional LH services. Fully expect to see more to Florida in the future at least.

[Porrohman]

92% load factor on Sanford in July 18, 99% load factor on Cancun. Seems like there is scope for additional LH services. Fully expect to see more to Florida in the future at least.

The short season of 4 return flights each to CAN and SFB equates to sixteen sectors. Twelve of these require positioning flights either into or out of EDI.

[Mister Geezer]

Maybe building an extra level to the terminal building could be the only option to create much-needed space? If I pass through EDI then it is normally around 1800 and the experience can be rather unpleasant during the week.

Whilst pax numbers have risen around 50% in the last 10 years, the overall infrastructure before and after security has not grown anywhere close in proportion to that value.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Does anyone have insight into how the new Emirates Dubai service is performing?

i heard from a source within Emirates that the real reason for the EDI rotation reductions in November and from now through May is because of soft booking numbers and not aircraft or pilot shortages.

Surely this won’t be helped by the service increase at GLA.

[CabinCrewe]

That is surprising. EK in time over the coming year (perhaps outwith A380 short term novelty) will increase significantly im sure. EY and QR were slow burners when launched.
Unless shenanigans with fare promotion/diversion to support GLA service, GLA and NCL will continue to show slow decreases.

[Mister Geezer]

Does anyone have insight into how the new Emirates Dubai service is performing?

i heard from a source within Emirates that the real reason for the EDI rotation reductions in November and from now through May is because of soft booking numbers and not aircraft or pilot shortages.

Surely this won’t be helped by the service increase at GLA.



That is correct but the service has been very busy during the holiday season despite the flight operating daily, plus the occasional flight has been operated by a two-class aircraft due to demand in Economy. However demand for EK always surges around the festive season from all UK destinations, so this is perhaps not really a surprise. I am not sure if EY sold any tickets past the end of Sept but if they did, perhaps some traffic was spilled over to EK? Demand naturally tapers off after the festive rush though so it will get a bit quieter.

Looking ahead, the A380 service from Glasgow does pose a threat for premium traffic at EDI with the EK lounge at GLA being so very popular, in addition to the different product on the A380. If you pay for a Business or First ticket to/from Glasgow, then the EK chauffer drive service will still pick you up and drop you off anywhere in Edinburgh, so the slightly longer journey will be worth it for some.

The recently installed second airbridge on Stand 16 will greatly help in reducing boarding times though which is a positive step.

[GLAEDI]

That is surprising. EK in time over the coming year (perhaps outwith A380 short term novelty) will increase significantly im sure. EY and QR were slow burners when launched.
Unless shenanigans with fare promotion/diversion to support GLA service, GLA and NCL will continue to show slow decreases.

Have you any evidence of the Shenanigans, from my contacts at EK, said that they introduced lower fares from EDI to encourage the new route (which always an industry norm) It was also heavily advertised even in the West. EK have played fair with the routes. GLA has shown a real commitment to EK over the years and so have the locals, in time the Edinburgh route will hopefully be a success but it has more competition from other airlines in Edinburgh that will continue driving down yields.

[Flap40]

On reflection i also also don’t remember seeing much in the way of expansion from Jet2 in S19 posted, where as GLA has picked up some additions.


Jet2 have replaced the -300's with-800's which equates to an extra 480 seats per day in the summer.

[inOban]

Most of the based a/c were -800s in W18. I think only 2 -300s were left.

[4eyed anorak]

Another great year for EDI.
https://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/busiest-ever-year-for-a-scottish-airport/

Rgards 4ea

[inOban]

And to think that it's only a few years since they reached 10 million. What's odd about the December data is the 12% jump in domestic traffic, which has been almost static for years. Can't just be the return of FR to STN route which they dropped in W17.

[GoEDI]

And to think that it's only a few years since they reached 10 million. What's odd about the December data is the 12% jump in domestic traffic, which has been almost static for years. Can't just be the return of FR to STN route which they dropped in W17.

It will be almost entirely down to FR being back on STN. Domestic up 45448, and If you look at the CAA stats for Nov the STN route was up a very similar amount to that (46260). New LDY route will also be adding a bit to help offset any decreases elsewhere.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Can anyone shed some light on the redevelopment work being done down at Gate 1 at EDI? Is it just internal refurbished?

[Plane mad 134]

I heard it is just a refurbishment, Also any news on potential routes as it has been rather quiet on that front since Westjet talks broke down, I know there is a few airlines in talks but again nothing concrete, so any ideas?

[ld0595]

I heard it is just a refurbishment, Also any news on potential routes as it has been rather quiet on that front since Westjet talks broke down, I know there is a few airlines in talks but again nothing concrete, so any ideas?

Which airlines are supposedly in talks?

[Plane mad 134]

From my sources it is mostly just airlines already operating but wanting to increase seats like Delta, Qatar and United, But I have also heard Indigo and Air India were in talks as well, but I expect these to break down.

[Sk1schoolsam]

I heard it is just a refurbishment, Also any news on potential routes as it has been rather quiet on that front since Westjet talks broke down, I know there is a few airlines in talks but again nothing concrete, so any ideas?

Any insight into why the WestJet talks breakdown and what route they were proposing?
Dont see any increase from Air Canada on the existing Rouge high summer route in S19 either.

[Sk1schoolsam]

From my sources it is mostly just airlines already operating but wanting to increase seats like Delta and United, But I have also heard Indigo and Air Indian were in talks as well, but I expect these to break down.

Why do you expect these talks (if they are happening) to breakdown with United, Delta and Indian airlines?

[nighthawk117]

Why do you expect these talks (if they are happening) to breakdown with United, Delta and Indian airlines?

He said the talks with the Indian airlines were likely to break down. IndiGo don't currently operate long haul flights, and I very much doubt their first destination would have been Edinburgh. They have apparently now decided not to proceed with launching any long haul flights, so they are out. Air India isn't in the healthiest of states at the moment, and is more likely to be cutting long haul routes, rather than adding more.

I'm surprised WestJet havent decided to launch, I thinkt hats a route that would have done quite well. Cant see much in the way of expansion from United and Delta this summer - Delta have already added a new flight, United did just last year. Short of upgrading to a 767, I can't see United wanting to add a 4th daily flight, but you never know.

[inOban]

But with the withdrawal of Norwegian, there must be some unmet demand?

[CabinCrewe]

But with the withdrawal of Norwegian, there must be some unmet demand?
Why did Norwegian withdraw then?

[goldeneye]

Why did Norwegian withdraw then?

DY pulled there flights to North America due to Scottish Govt failure to cut APD.

Link (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/norwegian-airline-flights-cut-edinburgh-belfast-new-york-boston-providence-budget-a8554671.html)

[Haldane90]

Westjet were due to announce Halifax, everything was agreed with EDI and now it has broken down for whatever reason, very strange as said everything was agreed in principle.

Indigo were a possibility IF they were venturing into Europe, but from my understanding the talks have been with Jet regarding a future Indian link.

[CabinCrewe]

DY pulled there flights to North America due to Scottish Govt failure to cut APD.

Link (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/norwegian-airline-flights-cut-edinburgh-belfast-new-york-boston-providence-budget-a8554671.html)
So noone else would be affected by that?

[mullac30]

So noone else would be affected by that?
APD is an issue especially for long haul low cost carriers as it eats into the very thin profit margins that the sector is known for. As D8 was the only true LHLLC at EDI, no other airlines would be massively affected.
However it should not really cause a problem for FR, dispite their complaints as the tax rate is much lower for short haul .

[toledoashley]

Norwegian launched it on the promise that it would be reduced, and it wasnt. For a route so thin, any additional tax or levy is always going to cause an issue.

[willy wombat]

But Westjet have the same APD at GLA and seem to cope.

[A350Saltire]

But Westjet have the same APD at GLA and seem to cope.

i wouldn’t class Westjet the same as Norwegian. You can connect onto Westjet’s Canadian network for one, whereas Norwegian were point to point.

APD wasn’t the only reason Norwegian cancelled their TATL flights from EDI but it was a major contributing factor. The other irish routes seem to be being cut back now as well.

[willy wombat]

Which makes the point that if you have a sound business model (Westjet) you can cope with the costs whereas if you have an unsound model to start with...…...

[Sk1schoolsam]

Did EDI loose out to Dublin on the Halifax link (Halifax - Dublin announced 24th Nov 2018)?
Hope this could resurrected as it would be a great additional link to North America and Canada in particular.

[A350Saltire]

Which makes the point that if you have a sound business model (Westjet) you can cope with the costs whereas if you have an unsound model to start with...…...

An APD cut as promised would have made their position more sound. Whether it would have been enough though, who knows. To give all of our airports in Scotland a fair chance against airports elsewhere vying for increased long haul links, we really should be looking to cut APD as the SG promised sooner rather than later.

[willy wombat]

Every month on the Edinburgh thread there is a (gloating?) post about how much traffic growth there has been vs previous year. What incentive is there for the SG to cut APD? If it halved it, you would need twice as many passengers to achieve the same tax take. That's not going to happen and the SG needs all the revenue it can get.

[A350Saltire]

Every month on the Edinburgh thread there is a (gloating?) post about how much traffic growth there has been vs previous year. What incentive is there for the SG to cut APD? If it halved it, you would need twice as many passengers to achieve the same tax take. That's not going to happen and the SG needs all the revenue it can get.

Come on, it is not gloating, it genuinely is impressive growth despite APD being still in place and only those that for some reason are against EDI being successful would see it as that.

An APD cut would surely make more direct long haul routes from EDI (and GLA) more attractive and that should be welcomed. The shorter European routes look after themselves really and will be less affected but I for one would prefer to have change aircraft at hubs less often if it can be avoided through more direct links.

The cut in APD was in the SNP manifesto after all was it not?

[Porrohman]

With Norwegian also cutting back on routes from Ireland, I wonder whether the economics of the B38M on transatlantic services is perhaps not as attractive as was predicted?

[gghdev]

This is pure conjecture, but I imagine the remoteness of the airports used by the Norwegian long haul routes could be a factor in their failure -- Newburgh/Stewart specifically. As much as people will seek out the lowest possible fare, they will factor in ease of onward travel.

[VickersVicount]

EK DXB approx 11K last month up to 16K Dec
Seems a good start. NCL was 18 K last month so will bypass shortly I would imagine.
Further levelling out with GLA I would imagine with a big drop once released.
Not so sure about Hainan numbers only 1300?

[Plane mad 134]

And Hainan are to be using the B787-9 for the summer schedule again. And it appears to be 4x weekly again as well.

[CabinCrewe]

Maybe the perceived poor loads are not correct and its a real cargo money spinner. You can never tell with Hainan from one month to the next...

[Rutan16]

Cabin crew it will be carrying the usual hordes of CAISSA middle class State authorised tourist parties.Just as the Manchester services do and significant numbers of unescorted boxes of stuff and nonsense below the plimsole line.

Including a few notable Scottish exports going east either in bottle tin or on ice for those with fins - Caveat these risk dropping off in volume if Trumps trade wars continues to threaten the Chinese middle class spending power.

China the Brexiteers dream economy is currently headed in a southerly direction and that Will have dire consequences on Global economic activity and UK plc is very likely to take a chill on top of the rather cold winds from self imposed withdrawal from the worlds largest most developed and frankly most stable market place just 28 miles offshore.

The numbers of UK business entrepreneurs going East in search of No 8 lucky rice quarries are less than stellar in reality and quite a few are further put off by Chinese thieves in high places !

BTW that also applies to those numerous HNA Group flights to and from no-mark Chinese towns to Heathrow just as much.

Someone who combines his sign in with a UK and US large airport might suggest Chingsha has a population larger than most EU cities and a trueism though how much spending power compared to say the Ruhr might be suspect on closer analysis
So I’ll stick with no - mark Chinese towns on this point.

[tartan 201]

QR website showing twice daily Mon, Wed and Fri from 1st July to end of summer schedule in October. Additional flights also by A350.

[A350Saltire]

QR website showing twice daily Mon, Wed and Fri from 1st July to end of summer schedule in October. Additional flights also by A350.

Good to see the A350 proving popular. 10 weekly is great news.

[wub]

Good to see the A350 proving popular. 10 weekly is great news.

Having flown the QR 787 and A350, I can understand the popularity of the A350. I have a booking on the A350 from EDI to Singapore in November and note that there are 2 flights out of EDI on the day I go.

[CabinCrewe]

Interesting move and undoubtedly in response to try and protect their market from Emirates in Scotland. Will be interesting to see how this pans out. Curious it only 3/wk during the EK A380 summer operation period. Unusual for QR to schedule in that fashion.
The perceived year round average loads obviously don't reflect QRs view of the route.
Meanwhile, the global demise of Etihad after their withdrawal doesn't seem to have come to fruition.

[Plane mad 134]

Thats good news to see Qatar increasing again, it should be good to see how this affects the scottish market, and what Emirates reaction will be.

[Richard Taylor]

Wonder if part of this is politically motivated given the ongoing spat between the UAE (& others) against Qatar. They're not best of friends just now.

Good news for EDI anyway. :ok:

[Plane mad 134]

It seemed this increase was planned for a while anyway, as I heard the airport were in talks since around December.

[Mister Geezer]

I suspect there is most certainly some inter Gulf politics involved, which was demonstrated in EK starting as soon as EY ceased flying to EDI. Whilst I am sure flying to EDI was on the agenda for EK at some stage, I suspect they may have wished to start the route at a time which was perhaps not so close to the start of the A380 flying into GLA. In the space of 12 months, Scotland will witness an overall EK capacity increase of around 70%, which equates to a lot of extra seats.

[A350Saltire]

I suspect there is most certainly some inter Gulf politics involved, which was demonstrated in EK starting as soon as EY ceased flying to EDI. Whilst I am sure flying to EDI was on the agenda for EK at some stage, I suspect they may have wished to start the route at a time which was perhaps not so close to the start of the A380 flying into GLA. In the space of 12 months, Scotland will witness an overall EK capacity increase of around 70%, which equates to a lot of extra seats.

The GLA A380 is only seasonal at this stage, similar to the extra 3 weekly flights from QR at EDI. Time will tell if it becomes a permanent fixture.

[Plane mad 134]

Does anyone have access to what airlines have applied for slots, as I only get notified once the slots have been approved.

[A350Saltire]

QR will operate 8x weekly in April with a double daily service on Mondays in addition to the 10x weekly between July and October that we already know about. The A359 will operate all flights.

https://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/double-daily-doha?fbclid=IwAR3A9j8xyiPXI8p377h0MhTj6jZmLAIzeqtFB6AMpdTXBm Yzb-eLAGFkQ7s

[Plane mad 134]

Edinburgh aiport twitter page now saying double daily Doha everyday in Easter and Summer.

[A350Saltire]

Edinburgh aiport twitter page now saying double daily Doha everyday in Easter and Summer.

I think that is a mistake. It is one additional flight per week in April, three additional flights per week between July and October.

[Homo Simpson]

Be under no illusion about Qatar's strategy.
This is one great big member waving exercise.
The spat between Qatar and the rest is getting worse and even if the route isn't making money they will continue to operate it and increase it to make a point.

[gghdev]

Be under no illusion about Qatar's strategy.
This is one great big member waving exercise.
The spat between Qatar and the rest is getting worse and even if the route isn't making money they will continue to operate it and increase it to make a point.

Is there general agreement on this perspective? I can't say I have any specific insight but I really can't see why this would be the case. Edinburgh is hardly likely to be an important route in terms of geopolitics, and if the economics don't stand up, they surely wouldn't voluntarily make higher losses on this route? It seems nuts to suggest otherwise.

[A350Saltire]

Is there general agreement on this perspective? I can't say I have any specific insight but I really can't see why this would be the case. Edinburgh is hardly likely to be an important route in terms of geopolitics, and if the economics don't stand up, they surely wouldn't voluntarily make higher losses on this route? It seems nuts to suggest otherwise.

From experience, the EDI route does well from a cargo and J cabin point of view. This is why the route has gone from the 788 to the A359 last year, thus more J capacity and more cargo space. During the summer months when the service goes to 10 weekly, loads are often very good across all cabins. I would expect it to return to a daily service outside of these peak months.

[Plane mad 134]

I think that is a mistake. It is one additional flight per week in April, three additional flights per week between July and October.

Ah ok thanks.

[gghdev]

From experience, the EDI route does well from a cargo and J cabin point of view. This is why the route has gone from the 788 to the A359 last year, thus more J capacity and more cargo space. During the summer months when the service goes to 10 weekly, loads are often very good across all cabins. I would expect it to return to a daily service outside of these peak months.

Cheers for the insight.

[inOban]

Is it possible that the growing pax is because TUI are now offering a range of longhaul holidays from EDI using Qatar?

[goldeneye]

Is it possible that the growing pax is because TUI are now offering a range of longhaul holidays from EDI using Qatar?

Doubt that would be the reason.

[Plane mad 134]

I seen on another thread that Flybe are adding an extra 3x weekly flights to Exeter on Mon, Thurs, Fri in the evenings.

[Homo Simpson]

Qatar are not run like a normal business.
It's partly a huge vanity project.
I know the Middle East well and I can tell you that pride and winning at mine is bigger/better is everything and being seen to lose out to or even worse to be embarrassed by another country especially the ones that have shunned Qatar is not going to happen. It means they will do whatever to appear to stand up to them.
They will keep adding routes (some are just fanciful) and increasing frequencies to take on the likes of Emirates. Whether the routes make money is not always the first consideration.
That said I will take a Qsuite any day over a crappy Emirates Business Class.

[BAladdy]

Alitalia are adding a weekly seasonal service to Milan

08JUN19 - 20JUL19

AZ231 EDI 18:50 LIN 22:25 320 6
AZ230 LIN 16:20 EDI 18:00 320 6

27JUL19 - 31AUG19

AZ231 EDI 18:55 MXP 22:35 320 6
AZ230 MXP 16:20 EDI 18:05 320 6

[Plane mad 134]

Thats more good news to see a new flag carrier.