Edinburgh-3

[willy wombat]

The other disappointment was long wait (over 30 minutes) for first bag to arrive. Hope this was a “one off” as EDI used to be good at baggage.

[Plane mad 134]

Flybe have released phase 1 of their summer timetable it seems as though cardiff is going from 11x weekly to 17x weekly does anyone know of any other changes? Also Flybe may announce something when phase 2 is announced in a few weeks.

[Plane mad 134]

Hainan are reducing service in W18 as the flights will stay 2 weekly on the Beijing - Edinburgh - Dublin - Beijing but the Beijing - Dublin - Edinburgh - Beijing is decreasing to 1 weekly, All flights on B787-8. This means there will only be a 3x weekly service in winter.

[VickersVicount]

Reductions in frequency and already? How long has the service been going?
Suppose a sensible reduction to see if theres any chance of it growing is better than canning it so early in the day.
Think QR did something similar to build the route and try and make it work. We're already on the third Hainan aircraft type for the route.
The odd triangle routing and customs /immigration faff is not something I would personally choose.
As we know the tourist inbound rates in winter to Scotland (and presumably Ireland) tend to plummet, but I would have thought Hainan would have known that from the ourset.
Ive a feeling its not the last of the changes to this double-drop service, in infact Hainan in general what with their financial woes and aircraft delivery issues.

[nighthawk117]

Reductions in frequency and already? How long has the service been going?
Suppose a sensible reduction to see if theres any chance of it growing is better than canning it so early in the day.
Think QR did something similar to build the route and try and make it work. We're already on the third Hainan aircraft type for the route.
The odd triangle routing and customs /immigration faff is not something I would personally choose.
As we know the tourist inbound rates in winter to Scotland (and presumably Ireland) tend to plummet, but I would have thought Hainan would have known that from the ourset.
Ive a feeling its not the last of the changes to this double-drop service, in infact Hainan in general what with their financial woes and aircraft delivery issues.

It's not entirely surprising that frequency is being reduced for the winter season, demand is always going to drop off. At least it's a cut and not a complete cancellation. Given that the market is probably mainly inbound tourism, the fact it is PEK-DUB-EDI that has been reduced suggests that it may be Dublin that is struggling, rather than EDI. Although having said that, unless loads are less than 50%, there's going to be issues getting everyone home again :-)

I wouldn't worry about the double drop too much - most people will just book their flights on days that operate the way they wish to fly, I bet few are booking PEK-EDI-DUB for example, unless it's offered pretty cheaply, or they really need to travel on that particular date.

[willy wombat]

I am currently sitting in an airside lounge at EDI and all I can say is that this airport is a disgrace. They shut the entrance to security for a while because it was too overcrowded and when we were eventually let in it took about 25 mins to get through. The airport cannot cope with the traffic it has. Those on here clamouring for more flights should be insisting on a decrease until the facilities can cope

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I would agree 100%,it used to be a brilliant wee airport.
There's no real concept now of having bread and butter routes on gates, bussing is the new norm. The new 15-17 gates are just a corrugated iron bolt-on, but the intrinsic issue for me is that the layout makes no sense. Two International Arrivals areas (take your pick), a domestic arrivals door behind Starbucks, a check in queue stretching into the old arrivals hall and most stressful of all, no clear queuing for check in. It's not fit for 2018, it's really not, and worst of all, there's just nowhere to go without spending a decent amount of money that a purely private EDI would never be able to justify an ROI around.

[edi_local]

It's not entirely surprising that frequency is being reduced for the winter season, demand is always going to drop off. At least it's a cut and not a complete cancellation. Given that the market is probably mainly inbound tourism, the fact it is PEK-DUB-EDI that has been reduced suggests that it may be Dublin that is struggling, rather than EDI. Although having said that, unless loads are less than 50%, there's going to be issues getting everyone home again :-)

I wouldn't worry about the double drop too much - most people will just book their flights on days that operate the way they wish to fly, I bet few are booking PEK-EDI-DUB for example, unless it's offered pretty cheaply, or they really need to travel on that particular date.

I can say from a reliable source that very few, sometimes none, use the triangle route in either direction,

PEK-EDI and EDI-PEK
PEK-DUB and DUB-PEK

EDI-DUB and DUB-EDI

Are all pretty busy (the shuttle sector surprisingly so some days), but there are few and far between who are using it to go EDI-DUB-PEK for example. It doesn't make a lot of sense.

Still, at 3 per week, or even 1 direct per week in winter, Beijing will have more flights than say, JFK or YYZ.

[EIFFS]

I would agree 100%,it used to be a brilliant wee airport.
There's no real concept now of having bread and butter routes on gates, bussing is the new norm. The new 15-17 gates are just a corrugated iron bolt-on, but the intrinsic issue for me is that the layout makes no sense. Two International Arrivals areas (take your pick), a domestic arrivals door behind Starbucks, a check in queue stretching into the old arrivals hall and most stressful of all, no clear queuing for check in. It's not fit for 2018, it's really not, and worst of all, there's just nowhere to go without spending a decent amount of money that a purely private EDI would never be able to justify an ROI around.

i operated into EDI recently from the US before position back to home base, it was around 25 minute before the first bag and no priority given to crew bags which are kept in a separate hold so had to stand there with the passengers who were complimentary about the flight and in flight service but very frustrated at the time it took for the bags to be delivered and the aircraft was directly ehind the reclaim belt up near stand 2 or 3

catching my my flight home through security was a bit of a joke and reminded me of the days when you turned left at the top of the escalator for security rather than the now shopping mall, unfortunately like most UK airport that have grown bit by bit over the years nothing short of a full rip out and start again will address the underlying shortcomings and that won’t happen

[AlbaAirNE]

I have passed through EDI several times in past 12 months. The state of the facilities is TBH embarrassing, the airport is at least for business the gateway to Scotland.
The terminal experience is not going to be enhanced with the works ongoing, as commented previously replace entirely and demolition of existing surely the only competent solution.
To achieve that is there a reason that Rwy30 end could be retained, surely a new terminal that end with a pier running along the runway centreline is feasible, terminal entrance and exit would be adjacent rail and tram, road could spur across Gogar. The present freight could relocate to existing terminal west side aprons.

[Plane mad 134]

I heard on another thread Thomas cook are freeing up an aircraft maybe we will see a 1 aircraft base, Although you are right Edinburgh needs a new terminal before adding more flights.

[VickersVicount]

Interesting June CAA stats.
Good start for UA IAD, but presumably thats the explanation for fairly significant drop in UA EWR, infact looks as if seasonal GLA carried more to EWR in June.
Seems EY also showing some increase despite about to be canned.

[ld0595]

My very crude calculations show that the loads on the Beijing route were about 87% for June, (total seats - 3212, load for June - 2793,) although I guess it can't be known how many carried on to/from Dublin.

[tartan 201]

Good start for UA IAD, but presumably thats the explanation for fairly significant drop in UA EWR

While that's true, EWR was twice-daily last year and is only daily this year - IAD, in effect, replaces one of the daily EWRs. Looking at things from UA's perspective, last June they carried 23,915 passengers (daily ORD, 2 daily EWR), whereas this June they carried 27,235 on their daily flights to IAD, EWR and ORD - an increase of 14%. The number of passengers on the EWR flights dropped by 39% even though capacity fell by 50%, hence increasing the load factor on the remaining daily flight.

[CabinCrewe]

Assuming CAA stats for Beijing are accurate for purely EDI loads (not mixed with DUB, and noting no EDI-DUB increase), assuming 9 flights in June on an A330-300 is that just high 50's loads?

[willy wombat]

CC - is that 50's absolute or 50's %?

[tartan 201]

CC - is that 50's absolute or 50's %?

The flight started on the 12th June and operates four weekly (Tue, Thu, Sat, Sun), thus there were 11 days of operation in June. Their A330s have 292 seats (source (https://www.hainanairlines.com/HUPortal/dyn/portal/DisplayPage?COUNTRY_SITE=CA&SITE=CBHZCBHZ&LANGUAGE=GB&PAGE=ASSS)) thus there were 6,424 seats available (11*2*292). Assuming a 50:50 split of available seats EDI : DUB, there would be 3,212 seats available EDI<>PEK. The CAA data shows 2,793 'terminal passengers' on the EDI<>PEK route. The CAA defines a 'terminal passenger' as "A terminal passenger is a passenger joining or leaving an aircraft at the reporting airport". Table 9 of the CAA data also shows 244 'transit' passengers at EDI in June 2018, compared to none in June 2017. The CAA defines a 'transit passenger' as "A transit passenger is a passenger who arrives at and departs from a reporting airport on the same aircraft which is transiting the airport." I suspect (though don't know for certain) that many of those 244 are DUB<>PEK passengers who get off and get back on again at EDI. In which case, I think the 2,793 are passengers who started or ended an EDI<>PEK journey at EDI so the EDI<>PEK load factor would be about 87% (on the assumed 50:50 split of seats EDI : DUB).

[CabinCrewe]

I presume the fact that HA have reversed and closed one of the weekly schedules from October and reduced capacity already trumps any fag-packet personal interpretation calculations!
Will be interesting to see how this route pans out.
Was also surprised to see EY with international expansion again given we were lead to believe it was finished.

[A350Saltire]

I presume the fact that HA have reversed and closed one of the weekly schedules from October and reduced capacity already trumps any fag-packet personal interpretation calculations!
Will be interesting to see how this route pans out.
Was also surprised to see EY with international expansion again given we were lead to believe it was finished.




Hainan are HU not HA. It looks like the route is performing fairly well and reductions in the winter are entirely sensible given there will almost certainly be lower demand. It will be interesting to see if they increase the frequency around Christmas and New Year.

I am very impressed with EDI's June 2018 performance on the long haul routes to the Middle East and across the Atlantic. Just to give an idea, here are the numbers:

DOH- 74% (11,280 passengers, +8.0%) QR
AUH- 90% (9,885 passengers, +7.9%) EY

Total UAE and Qatar = 21,165 passengers, +8.0% (increase of 1,565 passengers)

YYZ- 84% (4,740 passengers, +23.0%) AC
ORD- 92% (9,336 passengers, +8.8%) UA
JFK- 89% (18,422 passengers, +9.1%) DL and AA
EWR- 92% (9,328 passengers, -39.2%) UA (one of two daily replaced by service to IAD)
SWF- 87% (5,283 passengers, +33.0%) D8
PVD- 88% (4,175 passengers, +138.7%) D8
IAD- 85% (8,571 passengers, new service) UA (replaces one of two daily EWR services)
SAN - 88% (504 passengers, +87.4%) BY

Total USA and Canada = 60,369 passengers, +15.9% (increase of 8,284 passengers)

[Plane mad 134]

Turkish are doing their inaugral B737Max flight to Ediburgh tommorow.

[CabinCrewe]

QR Timetables showing Qatar reverting to the smaller 787-8 next year, was that always to be the plan?

[C172Navigator]

Edinburgh is awful these days - I cannot see how the airport management don't wish to sort it out. There is no air conditioning upstairs, the place is so hot and humid. There are no seats, even in the eating establishments and you queue everywhere; car park, check-in, security, cafes and boarding.

I'm based in EDI and it is the worst airport I fly into or out of. Lack of stands means frequent waiting after landing, then when you get a stand there is normally a wait for guidance, then a wait for staff as the stand was a change from planned. Then when ready to go you queue on the way to the runway after being stuck in the cul-de-sac beforehand. ATC do a great job of trying to keep things moving but there are simply more aircraft than the place and cope with. The airport management have done a wonderful job of attracting new routes, the selection from Edinburgh is excellent these days but the experience passengers receive due to poor infrastructure is appalling.

[CraigJay]

QR Timetables showing Qatar reverting to the smaller 787-8 next year, was that always to be the plan?
Business class is full pretty much every day on the a350 and the extra cargo space is required, still early days.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Edinburgh is awful these days - I cannot see how the airport management don't wish to sort it out. There is no air conditioning upstairs, the place is so hot and humid. There are no seats, even in the eating establishments and you queue everywhere; car park, check-in, security, cafes and boarding.

I'm based in EDI and it is the worst airport I fly into or out of. Lack of stands means frequent waiting after landing, then when you get a stand there is normally a wait for guidance, then a wait for staff as the stand was a change from planned. Then when ready to go you queue on the way to the runway after being stuck in the cul-de-sac beforehand. ATC do a great job of trying to keep things moving but there are simply more aircraft than the place and cope with. The airport management have done a wonderful job of attracting new routes, the selection from Edinburgh is excellent these days but the experience passengers receive due to poor infrastructure is appalling.

Why do so many of you regular commentators constantly moan about the airport. The reality is that no current or future Scottish or UK Gov would sign off on significantly expanded EDI because of the Environmental Loby and Legally binding emission reduction targets. In addition who would put up the huge sums of cash needed (look at Manchester for example) to completely redevelop the airport from scratch. The volumes and ROCE is just not there now or in the future. It’s a pipe dream so please stop moaning and complaining because the reality is it’s not going to significantly change in our lifetime.

EDI is frankly no worse than many other airports around the world. We all don’t like get buses in from remote stands (EDI has plenty stands free every time I am through which is often) but this reality is the same for almost every major airport around the world. I have been bused in Dubai, Amsterdam, Istanbul Washington, Moscow etc. All these airports have their own faults, own queue issues and lack of this or poor that.

Bring on more routes, yes please....

[LTNman]

The airport didn’t seem that bad to me although some parts of the terminal did seem rather tired and needed a bit of a makeover or at least a good clean and a lick of paint.

For an airport serving a capital city though it was sadly lacking and has the feel of a larger UK regional airport rather than the only airport serving a country’s capital.

[Flightrider]

Oh Lord - this is beginning to resemble the Manchester thread where a chosen few defend the airport to the hilt yet elect to overlook the bloody awful experience that customers are having on a daily basis at the airport. In this instance, there is a subtle difference in that one airport in the same group (LGW) is broadly performing very well whereas EDI still has some way to go, unlike MAG where MAN, STN and EMA seem to attempt to out-do each other for most dreadful customer experience. I fly very regularly (a quiet week is two or three flights and I hit 200 flights last year) and have first-hand experience of all. EDI is not the worst but a long way off the best. From that experience, the difference at EDI is the sheer unpredictability of security given the random tensabarrier routes versus LGW which is predictable and where you have a feeling that you can influence the outcome by choosing a shorter queue. At EDI, what looks to be the shorter queue never turns out to be so.

The growth aspirations at Edinburgh are such that the product needs to be delivered with much greater consistency. Continuing to ram several million more passengers through infrastructure designed for far less is a recipe for trouble, particularly as airlines operating shorter routes with road and rail competition see customers voting with their feet. Looking at the CAA June stats, that's already happening on MAN-EDI. Equally, if you don't get security right, your airside spend goes down as customers have less time. That drop in spend means the airport has to increase its airline charges which in turn means less attractive airline deals to keep the growth going. That's a day-to-day issue and the answer isn't a growth project in three years time as that's too late to influence customer choices today or tomorrow.

So no matter how much you want to see your local airport succeed - and you have every right to want that - then please at least consider the customer in all this. We'll otherwise end up with a Manchester-style thread of a select few aiming for limitless growth on totally inadequate airport infrastructure. It's an unhappy mix and a healthy dose of realism is needed.

[willy wombat]

Skischoolsam - I moan about the airport because I have to use it regularly and find the experience awful compared to other airports I use regularly, particularly Gatwick. I resent the fact that the management seem hell bent on increasing pax numbers with no consideration for the customers they already have and appear to be incapable of proper forward planning. A good example is the "new" security facility. It opened what, two or three years ago max and is already overwhelmed at times. I do not know whether EDI is "coordinated" (but I am sure someone on here will tell us) but if it is more attention should be paid to terminal capacity, not just runway availability, and if it's not it should be. My next trip to Edinburgh will be in about two weeks time and I've already decided to drive this time.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Why do so many of you regular commentators constantly moan about the airport. The reality is that no current or future Scottish or UK Gov would sign off on significantly expanded EDI because of the Environmental Loby and Legally binding emission reduction targets. In addition who would put up the huge sums of cash needed (look at Manchester for example) to completely redevelop the airport from scratch. The volumes and ROCE is just not there now or in the future. It’s a pipe dream so please stop moaning and complaining because the reality is it’s not going to significantly change in our lifetime.

EDI is frankly no worse than many other airports around the world. We all don’t like get buses in from remote stands (EDI has plenty stands free every time I am through which is often) but this reality is the same for almost every major airport around the world. I have been bused in Dubai, Amsterdam, Istanbul Washington, Moscow etc. All these airports have their own faults, own queue issues and lack of this or poor that.

Bring on more routes, yes please....
You say you travel but having seen how much better others can do this, you suggest Scotland settles for the status quo?
Was there an ROI on nuclear power or the channel tunnel? No. Worth remembering that all three Scottish Lowland Airports were built to a decent standard by the taxpayer as a significant piece of national infrastructure. For example, in the US, that famed home of capitalism with stars and stripes, many airports run at a loss. Why? Because local government sees them as a driver of inbound tourism and business? Now have you seen just how much business EDI brings into Scotland? You can't move on the Royal Mile for Americans and Chinese coach parties in the summer. Second largest inbound destination in the UK.
So when you roll your eyes and say "the ROI just isn't there", what you really mean "short term shareholder profit just isn't there fast enough", which is why the plans for Scotland's busiest airport, our gateway to the world are c**p. The owners, being wholly private, will spend as little as they think they can get away with, exactly like Scottish Airports who splashed the cash on GLA as Scotland's long haul hub.
Are the EDI expansion plans remotely aspirational or risky? No, because that's modern Scotland (my homeland). That'll dae me ! written in corrugated iron.
BTW how are you getting all these new routes Bring on more routes, yes please.... in a building that literally cannot deal with peak summer without huge delays.

Could it be better? Yes.
Should it be better? Yes
Will it better? No because Scotland just has no ambition, the best wee country in the world.
Ironically given the new bridge just over the hill, is there actually some determination left in Holyrood?

[A350Saltire]

The main terminal extension has not even opened yet. That has still to come along with a significant increase to the number of stands. Work is in progress but these things do not happen overnight. Having said that. I think the place will be a continuous building site for the next ten or so years as they struggle to match capacity to demand. Its great that proper investment is now going in though but the current projects wont solve all of the problems.

I have definitely used worse airports though, a few of which are also in the UK.

[willy wombat]

Worse airports serving a Capital City?

[A350Saltire]

Worse airports serving a Capital City?

All sorts of cities.

[Flightrider]

Part of the problem, and it's the same at Manchester, is that long-term investment plans are confused with short-term customer experience. The fact that the airport is doing X,Y and Z to build more space is lovely but when you're one of the 1.4 million passengers going through Edinburgh in June and it's an awful set-up, you really couldn't care two hoots about a building project and won't want to do it again in a hurry. The only answer is for the airports to slow down the growth rate through terminal capacity declarations until the new infrastructure is in place to cope with it. The current limits are set too high. With MAG, my experiences suggest it's common across all three airports (MAN, STN and EMA). What surprises me about EDI is that Gatwick is so much better and GIP clearly recognise standards.

[apaul]

Worse airports serving a Capital City?

Berlin knows how to mess up an airport.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

What surprises me about EDI is that Gatwick is so much better and GIP clearly recognise standards.
I thnk GIP really thought they needed to vastly improve Gatwick when they first bought it out with a view to go head to head with LHR for the new runway for London. BAA had let LGW slide as they built T5 and planned the T2 rebuild for LHR. To be taken at all seriously in the recent battle, they had to invest heavily with a view that winning would make it all worth it.
Once the new Stands 15/16 are fully in use, they have four narrow body or two wide body gates, which will still be tight for next summer. Is there a plan to extend the SE pier down to the corner where flybe are banished on 34?

[highwideandugly]

New central Scottish Airport anyone?

[On the beach]

Long haul - no choice, and with Emirates finally seeing the light and starting flights from EDI, a welcome addition.
Short haul (London) - train is quicker city centre to city centre and a lot less hassle.

Security outbound has improved marginally, but all the lanes need to be staffed. Security inbound needs 3X or more electronic passport scanners as everyone has one these days. This is basic bad management and those in charge need to pull their fingers out or be replaced.

[edi_local]

Worse airports serving a Capital City?

Berlin SXF is a lot worse than EDI.

EDI may be cramped, but the situation at SXF is even worse. That airport is not only overcrowded, it's filthy and the staff couldn't care less either. It's the most un-German airport in the country.

[LFT]

... and with Emirates finally seeing the light and starting flights from EDI..


And Etihad's light being extinguished.

[C172Navigator]

Just because Edinburgh is not the worst airport in the world doesn't mean it is good. If I happened to be a manager there I would be ashamed. All of my colleagues dislike Edinburgh as a place to work from, Glasgow is a far easier day out. But Edinburgh could be great, the look of the place is much improved - more seats, air-conditioning and better security would all be simple steps the management could take. More stands and better stand allocation might take longer to resolve. The infrastructure outside makes getting in and out on time very difficult, made even harder recently by the use of remote stands so often. Waiting for buses, wheelchairs or fuel on these stands makes a 30 minute turnaround almost impossible.

[USERNAME_]

Seen that today Blue Panorama/Blu Express operated a flight to and from FCO with 737-400 9H-AMW.

Just curious what this was for or who it was operated for as it didn’t show up on Edinburgh nor FCO Departure boards, and I can’t see any relevant football/sports that it could be chartered for.

[OntimeexceptACARS]

These are normally inbound visiting student charters, have done so for more than 20 years. Eurofly, Volare, etc all been involved in the past.

[Mister Geezer]

A new level being built in departures from Stand 6-10 with most retail outlets ‘upstairs’ and strip these existing outlets out on the existing departures floor and create more seating and extended lounges would get my vote!

I suspect such a move would be viewed as isolating pax from potential retail opperunities and we all know how that is viewed by airport management nowadays. :(

I was in the No1 lounge in EDI recently and staff were very helpful and it was a welcome break from the circus outside. However the cleanliness left something to be desired. The state of the carpet would not have looked out of place in a Weatherspoons pub. :D

[willy wombat]

I'm flying into EDI tomorrow (I know I said "never again") and out from GLA on Friday. It will be interesting to compare the two.

[inOban]

When is the rest of the terminal extension expected to open?

[Flap40]

The original timeline said June although I don't think it actually mentioned which year.

[Sk1schoolsam]

I'm flying into EDI tomorrow (I know I said "never again") and out from GLA on Friday. It will be interesting to compare the two.

Sad that you would even consider saying “never again” to EDI. I still maintain, whilst we always wish for improvement, it’s is by far better than many others. Will not stop me using it regularly. I certainly would not drive the extra miles for the GLA experience just to spite EDI. 😉😁

[willy wombat]

My destination in Scotland this time is such that EDI and GLA are equally convenient. My flight choices are down to schedule and availability.

[VickersVicount]

Any updates on EDI TCX schedule for S19? Some seemed to think it was the start of something but I could only see a reduced program so far.

[CabinCrewe]

Looks like the once weekly Thomas Cook Antalya S18 dropped for S19 (or not currently bookable -unlike other S19 limited routes)

[Porrohman]

The extension was scheduled for completion in September, not June. It looks like it's on track to meet that timetable.

[Plane mad 134]

American are using B767-300 N384AA on todays AA279 Does anyone know why as its a one off?

[CabinCrewe]

May be they are short. PHL-GLA was a 763 also the other week.

[willy wombat]

I flew into EDI and out from GLA at the end of last week. I remain unimpressed by the EDI new pier which we parked right at the end of. Not only a long walk in but also had to fight our way through a queue of easyJet passengers waiting to board a flight to Spain. Baggage slow again. I was also disappointed by GLA. It is a good ten years since I last flew through there and it seemed, for want of a better way of putting it, a bit sad and dated (except of course for World Duty Free which seems to be the same brightly lit maze everywhere). I also accept that the walk out to the gate (I can't remember if it was gate 7 or 9) is as long as the walk along EDI's new pier but at least once you are in the gate room the inbound and outbound pax are separated and in its defence, that pier is over 50 years old. I would like to put in a positive word for Swissport as handling agents are so often slagged off. We were on the 21.05 Easy to LGW which was about 20 mins late inbound. Swissport were ready and waiting mob handed and did a very good job of achieving a quick turn round which was sadly somewhat negated as a punter had checked a bag and then failed to turn up causing a further delay while the bag was retrieved.

[4eyed anorak]

Continued increase in passenger figuers..1.5 million passenger barrier broken

About Us (https://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/)
Media Centre (https://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/)
Press releases (https://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/)

1.5 million passenger barrier broken (https://www.edinburghairport.com/about-us/media-centre/press-releases/1.5-million-passenger-barrier-broken#)

Published on: 15 August 2018The 1.5 million passenger barrier has been broken for the first time ever at a Scottish airport as Edinburgh Airport recorded its busiest ever month on record.A total of 1,501,988 people passed through the airport in July 2018 – an increase of 6.3% on the same month last year, with growth in both domestic and international markets.2018
Jul
% vs Last Year
Domestic
498,699
4.3%
International
1,003,289
7.3%
Total
1,501,988
6.3%
MAT
13,853,483
6.6%

[Plane mad 134]

I flew through Edinburgh last sunday and It wasnt too bad Jet2 had their own check in which was easy and fast, security was not the best but most certainly not the worst and was ok considering it was midday, once into departures plenty of places to eat and even though it was busy still a good place to sit down and see a few planes. I returned on the next sunday at 12am, border force was quick even though 2 or 3 planes had landed at the same time and all desks were open, baggage was on the belt within 20 minutes and we had just arrived to find the baggage already on the belt so overall a good experience imo.

[Breathe]

The extension was scheduled for completion in September, not June. It looks like it's on track to meet that timetable.

I guess this would explain why EK are starting flights in Oct. A few folk were wondering why they were missing the festival rush and starting later in the year.

[wesleyscott]

has the rumoured US PreClearance died if death, no news of it happening?

[CabinCrewe]

Id be surprised. Given the year round American market dwindles to a few hundred at most mid winter, Im guessing there will be a few more airports in UK up the pecking order. If they want it it has to be fully staffed year round and they need to be willing to pay to have it.
Nice if it ever happened.

[edi_local]

I guess this would explain why EK are starting flights in Oct. A few folk were wondering why they were missing the festival rush and starting later in the year.


I doubt EK in October is due to that. The new arrivals hall isn't yet fully ready for flights that use containers for baggage. I think EY have done some trials, but QR, HU, AC still don't use it for that reason.

The October start is only because EY pull out the day before.

Also, with regards to US Pre-Clear. A nice idea, but where on Earth would it go in EDI? They would need dedicated gates, an additional TSA security check and space for the passport control desks too. No idea where that would go in the current terminal. No way EDI would want passengers isolated from the main drag either, so it would have to be in a place where they could fling in a Costa, Wetherspoons, 2 WH Smith's and a Duty Free shop so people get a chance to spend money before and after pre-clearance.

[Plane mad 134]

I have always wondered why BA haven't got any mainline flights from Edinburgh to anywhere I know they tried Ibiza and it didnt work but BA Cityflyer are doing well on the Palma and its a wonder BA haven't taken the route of them and operated it themselves as Im sure they could fill an A319 once a week and possibly try Malaga or Alicante as well on a trial period? Although this is very unlikely to happen being in the real world.

[Rob Royston]

I have always wondered why BA haven't got any mainline flights from Edinburgh to anywhere I know they tried Ibiza and it didnt work but BA Cityflyer are doing well on the Palma and its a wonder BA haven't taken the route of them and operated it themselves as Im sure they could fill an A319 once a week and possibly try Malaga or Alicante as well on a trial period? Although this is very unlikely to happen being in the real world.
Not sure if things have changed, but BA only used to fly to and from London airports.

[GLAEDI]

I have always wondered why BA haven't got any mainline flights from Edinburgh to anywhere I know they tried Ibiza and it didnt work but BA Cityflyer are doing well on the Palma and its a wonder BA haven't taken the route of them and operated it themselves as Im sure they could fill an A319 once a week and possibly try Malaga or Alicante as well on a trial period? Although this is very unlikely to happen being in the real world.

IAG have tried a few routes from EDI with Vueling. The only one that’s survived is BCN. The Cityflyer flights are good way of utilising the EMB when LCY is reduced capacity at the weekends. Not much of an incentive to place an A319 in their with crews have to come from LGW or LHR with expensive hotel stays.

[edi_local]

Not sure if things have changed, but BA only used to fly to and from London airports.

BA Connect used to do EDI-HAM.

[Sk1schoolsam]

IAG have tried a few routes from EDI with Vueling. The only one that’s survived is BCN. The Cityflyer flights are good way of utilising the EMB when LCY is reduced capacity at the weekends. Not much of an incentive to place an A319 in their with crews have to come from LGW or LHR with expensive hotel stays.

Are the BA frames that overnight at EDI crewed from London? Could they not use one of these am on a Saturday?

[nighthawk117]

Are the BA frames that overnight at EDI crewed from London? Could they not use one of these am on a Saturday?

BA mainline crews are based in London, and nightstop in GLA/EDI. I dont think mainline have any crew based here any more. They certainly could operate EDI to Europe and back in the morning, then onward to London, but they can make more money flying from London, so why waste an aircraft out of EDI? BA are short of narrowbody aircraft as it is, and are having to lease in operators for the summer to cover flights, to ensure they fully use their LHR slots and dont lose them. Adding flights from EDI would make the situation worse.

You need to think of the bigger picture, they may well be able to make money flying from EDI, but the important question is can they make more money flying from elsewhere?

[Sk1schoolsam]

BA mainline crews are based in London, and nightstop in GLA/EDI. I dont think mainline have any crew based here any more. They certainly could operate EDI to Europe and back in the morning, then onward to London, but they can make more money flying from London, so why waste an aircraft out of EDI? BA are short of narrowbody aircraft as it is, and are having to lease in operators for the summer to cover flights, to ensure they fully use their LHR slots and dont lose them. Adding flights from EDI would make the situation worse.

You need to think of the bigger picture, they may well be able to make money flying from EDI, but the important question is can they make more money flying from elsewhere?

Thanks nighthawk that makes perfect sense and explains why.....

[Rob Royston]

BA Connect used to do EDI-HAM.
Then they became London Airways.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/740435/BA-clips-its-wings-with-regional-sell-off.html

[edi_local]

BA mainline crews are based in London, and nightstop in GLA/EDI. I dont think mainline have any crew based here any more. They certainly could operate EDI to Europe and back in the morning, then onward to London, but they can make more money flying from London, so why waste an aircraft out of EDI? BA are short of narrowbody aircraft as it is, and are having to lease in operators for the summer to cover flights, to ensure they fully use their LHR slots and dont lose them. Adding flights from EDI would make the situation worse.

You need to think of the bigger picture, they may well be able to make money flying from EDI, but the important question is can they make more money flying from elsewhere?


They still have a crew room in EDI, Is this for cityflyer crew based here? I see plenty of BA crew coming and going at EDI.

[GLAEDI]

They still have a crew room in EDI, Is this for cityflyer crew based here? I see plenty of BA crew coming and going at EDI.

yeah it’s a Cityflyer crew base. Main line are LGW & LHR

[edi_local]

Then they became London Airways.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/740435/BA-clips-its-wings-with-regional-sell-off.html


I wonder, with the rise of ME3, TK, Low cost Long haul like Norwegian and the expansion of US/Canada routes from Scotland since their departure, if BA now regret scaling back regional operations and losing customers to the aforementioned services? They could have directly competed with the direct services to the US/Canada for sure from Scotland.

[Richard Taylor]

I wonder, with the rise of ME3, TK, Low cost Long haul like Norwegian and the expansion of US/Canada routes from Scotland since their departure, if BA now regret scaling back regional operations and losing customers to the aforementioned services? They could have directly competed with the direct services to the US/Canada for sure from Scotland.

Somehow, I doubt it very much.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

They could potentially do it now with 3rd party handling and a clean sheet of paper like Level or CitiFlyer on short haul. But they only got here by ripping out the legacy cost base of old BA. In house handling, well paid staff who worked leisurely and unionsed hours. You can’t fly for £50 on that which is why it was all hived off, even Gatwick underwing was outsourced.
easyJet and Ryanair beat them at their own game.

[nighthawk117]

I wonder, with the rise of ME3, TK, Low cost Long haul like Norwegian and the expansion of US/Canada routes from Scotland since their departure, if BA now regret scaling back regional operations and losing customers to the aforementioned services? They could have directly competed with the direct services to the US/Canada for sure from Scotland.

Any BA flight from EDI would be point-to-point, whereas almost all of the long-haul flights from EDI are used to provide feed into the airlines hubs. BA could offer connections on to AA, but then why open a base in EDI, when they can just get AA to operate form their existing JFK base anyway? They have a joint venture on transatlantic flights, and can split the revenue from the route between them.

[Sk1schoolsam]

I heard a rumour today from inside Menzies that they are loosing contacts and my be withdrawn from EDI.
Also that EasyJet we’re pulling out- but found that hard to believe?!
There was also refreshed talk of Virgin / Delta flights in S19.... but I thought that one was put down a while ago as unrealistic.
Can anyone confirm or substantiate any of these rumours...or are they just that.

[HH6702]

Rubbish

easyjet wont be pulling out of Edinburgh
they maybe changing handling agents.

the current handling agent maybe however pulling out of Edinburgh

delta/virgin well we will have to wait and see

[habs_fan]

EasyJet are Just changing from Menzies to WFS from November

[Sk1schoolsam]

Rubbish

easyjet wont be pulling out of Edinburgh
they maybe changing handling agents.

the current handling agent maybe however pulling out of Edinburgh

delta/virgin well we will have to wait and see

Thats what my intuition said also, and I have found that WFS have had recruitment days for staff for the easyJet contract. Disgruntled employee syndrome.

...not hanging much in Virgin/ Delta coming to town. I would have thought expansion at MAN or GLA where they have an existing presence would make more sense.

[Callum Johnstone]

...not hanging much in Virgin/ Delta coming to town. I would have thought expansion at MAN or GLA where they have an existing presence would make more sense.
Virgin/Delta already has a presence at EDI too (on the JFK route). Their routes at MAN or GLA don't preclude them from adding to their existing EDI network if the demand is there. An ATL route might just be the most likely new addition for EDI from these guys.

[nighthawk117]

Virgin/Delta already has a presence at EDI too (on the JFK route). Their routes at MAN or GLA don't preclude them from adding to their existing EDI network if the demand is there. An ATL route might just be the most likely new addition for EDI from these guys.

Sir Richard was in Edinburgh last year for the announcement of the Virgin Hotel int he city. He hinted then that Virgin were looking at adding new flights from Edinburgh. Personally, i wouldn't hold my breath, but if anything does come of it, it will likely be Atlanta, or a once weekly Orlando.

[Breathe]

Thats what my intuition said also, and I have found that WFS have had recruitment days for staff for the easyJet contract. Disgruntled employee syndrome.

...not hanging much in Virgin/ Delta coming to town. I would have thought expansion at MAN or GLA where they have an existing presence would make more sense.

Delta used to operate seasonal flights to their hub in ATL 10 years ago. Perhaps they might see an opportunity to revive this link or perhaps one of their focus cities like BOS?

[PPRuNeUser0176]

EDI-PHL

Newsroom - American Airlines Expands European Footprintand Modifies Asia Service - American Airlines Group, Inc. (http://news.aa.com/news/news-details/2018/American-Airlines-Expands-European-Footprint-and-Modifies-Asia-Service/)

[sinbad73]

EDI-JFK and GLA-PHL being replaced by EDI-PHL

[Sk1schoolsam]

EDI-JFK and GLA-PHL being replaced by EDI-PHL

Thats a bit of a disappointing reduction on the nearly all year round JFK service from EDI.

[PDXCWL45]

Thats a bit of a disappointing reduction on the nearly all year round JFK service from EDI.

EDI-JFK is still onsale on AA website for 2019.

[Plane mad 134]

American has said it themselves at news.aa.com .

[inOban]

Thats a bit of a disappointing reduction on the nearly all year round JFK service from EDI. The AA service to JFK was always seasonal. The DL service continues until early January and restarts end March

[PDXCWL45]

American has said it themselves at news.aa.com .

Yep it's been pointed out to me where it is in the news release now!

[4eyed anorak]

Surely United and Delta will increase frequency or/and upgrade aircraft to 788/763 now!?

Regards 4ea

[Sk1schoolsam]

The AA service to JFK was always seasonal. The DL service continues until early January and restarts end March

My mistake, thank you. Still loss of JFK connection is disappointing, don’t know if Phily offers as good a range of onward connections. Also can’t use my BA miles to get direct to NYC 😜

[Plane mad 134]

Delta possibly could do a year round operation with a B757 during the thinner months and a B767 or 787 during high season. Also United could go back to 2x daily B757 or use a B767 or B787 1x daily, Norwegian we wait and see when the schedule comes out soon for next summer.

[willy wombat]

Dreaming! See my comment about yield on GLA thread.

[A350Saltire]

I can certainly see a bigger aircraft on DL to JFK or UA to EWR next summer.

[nighthawk117]

I can certainly see a bigger aircraft on DL to JFK or UA to EWR next summer.

why? The 757 is perfect for the UK, it frees up 767s/787s for use on longer runs into Europe that the 757 cannot manage.

If they remove the 757 from EDI, where would they send it?

[A350Saltire]

why? The 757 is perfect for the UK, it frees up 767s/787s for use on longer runs into Europe that the 757 cannot manage.

If they remove the 757 from EDI, where would they send it?

Why? Because they have done it before. More capacity might be needed between EDI and NYC now, these are routes during the summer run close to capacity.

The 757 could go anywhere, DL run them between JFK and LAX, Florida etc so plenty options.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

If they remove the 757 from EDI, where would they send it?
Mojave, Marana or Victorville for starters.
American are fast withdrawing them and Delta and United are not far behind.

So elderly B763, shiney new B788 or B737MAX/ A321NEO? Probably the latter.

[PDXCWL45]

Mojave, Marana or Victorville for starters.
American are fast withdrawing them and Delta and United are not far behind.

So elderly B763, shiney new B788 or B737MAX/ A321NEO? Probably the latter.
They are also transferring them to domestic coast to coast to put a better product on it.

[Plane mad 134]

Ive noticed in the last few flights Hainan appear to have changed aircraft back to the B787-9 for the time being with B-1341 operating tonights flight, Anyone know why they have changed? Hopefully the route is doing well.

[A350Saltire]

Ive noticed in the last few flights Hainan appear to have changed aircraft back to the B787-9 for the time being with B-1341 operating tonights flight, Anyone know why they have changed? Hopefully the route is doing well.

Festival is on so some healthy loads I’d suspect which requires the shift to a larger aircraft.

[nighthawk117]

Am I right in thinking US/AA used to run EDI-PHL, but the route was switched to JFK 2-3 years ago?

[edi_local]

Am I right in thinking US/AA used to run EDI-PHL, but the route was switched to JFK 2-3 years ago?

Yes, it was ran as a US Route for, I think 2 summers, then as AA for one and then dropped in favour of JFK once the merger was done.

[awwdabaaby]

It only ran for 1 summer with US Airways before it was switched to JFK with American

[nighthawk117]

Thanks, I thought that was the case. Interesting that they've decided to switch it back.

[Rutan16]

Nighthawk not interesting at all - AMERICAN management have decided that European - Eastern Seaboard - rest of the North East and some Trans- continental traffic is better served via Philadelphia.

With UK - New York lower yielding traffic routed via Heathrow filling the back of the bus - Gotta fill those cheap seats on their own and partners multiple flights somehow !

Its a similar situation with the managed decline and finally the binning of the Manchester- O’Hare route especially now as AA are now flying mutlple 788 into LHR each day,

The US Air merger has effectively ruined O’Hare as transfer hub for AA these days with just the London connection being the only year round route they have left from Chicago , plus few seasonal routes to Dublin BCN, FCO and Athens .

Its almost certain that we are just a year away from them removing the 75w on the North Atlantic in my opinion.

Philadelphia will certainly be strengthened at both Manchester and Edinburgh imho.

However I don’t think Dublin - Dallas will be around that long . There really isn’t that much traffic from Europe that needs to connect in Texas to be frank.

JFK- Europe with AA is now pretty much just London and Madrid with JV venture IAG Partners , Paris and Milan . Even Dublin is just seasonal with the crappy 75w against multiple Aer Lingus options (IAG company but still not full JV partner or oneworld member some years after purchase !)
Aer Lingus actually continues to code share with United !!!

The only other Western European routes left from JFK are to Barcelona and Rome however I wouldn’t at all be surprised if these are also transfered to year round routes to Philadelphia soon ( Barcelona -Philadelphia is currently seasonal )

Anyway frankly the onward connections over JFK on AA are utterly rubbish anyway. The’re also rather weak up the road if you include that dump on the edge of Flushing Bay !

New York is heavy Banking and Financial Services traffic filling the upper middle and front cabins between , The City, Wall Street and EUNext stock markets in Paris . Much more surprising to me is AA doesn’t fly JFK - FRA leaving that market to Star other than over LHR !

The back of the bus is filled with tourists and at times of the year shed loads of very cheap tickets are dumped on the consolidators!

The last point further weakens the viability of year round JFK - UK regional services .

[VickersVicount]

... with AA perhaps for some of the reasons given- but for DL on JFK and their better regional product, they seem to be doing just fine would growing loads and expanded seasons.

[Rutan16]

My lord Viscount - Delta and Virgin (Delta UK) are much stronger in New York that’s for sure these days and they don’t have a dedicated UK domestic carrier shuffling the elites “darn south” !

[OltonPete]

... with AA perhaps for some of the reasons given- but for DL on JFK and their better regional product, they seem to be doing just fine would growing loads and expanded seasons.


Another minor point is repeat business on the AA 757, which once suffered is not likely to happen again unless it is someone else's money. The AA BHX-JFK often had sky high fares and low passenger loads making Heathrow an obvious choice in economy but I did mange to pick up a stupid fare in July and even then the plane was not full but what a product, just awful. I hope Rutan16 is correct for EDI's sake that their 757 days are numbered as they are truly woeful.

I still don't know to this day whether the PA system was broke on the outbound but absolutely nothing from the flight-deck. not a word for 7 hours 30 minutes. The crew, food, seats was average, there wasn't any IFE and the only positive is that they got me there and back on time with luggage. I was going to say lucky EDI losing JFK but if the same 757's are just moving to PHL then no such luck for those unsuspecting passengers booking it next year.

Also whilst waiting in line to be abused by JFK staff (by far one of the worst on the planet) on arrival I got talking to a BHX business class passenger who regularly flies to Bermuda (work base) from home (Shropshire) and he said AA and JFK is basically a toxic mix for transfers but he did it as he could fly from BHX rather than LHR but is always an ordeal.

Here in BHX it is hoped Delta try the 757 to JFK sooner rather than later as both EDI and GLA seems to be working and believe it or not the AA 757 back to BHX was around 50/50 US/UK pax split which was a shock as it is often perceived to be mainly UK based traffic but alas the load was only around 110-120 in peak season, which I suppose in reality won't inspire Delta to take the plunge even without competition.

Pete

[EIFFS]

Interesting numbers Pete, Norwegian are through the one year point now on Transatlantic services and the loads are in general good with typically 160+ on most routes and the Dublin now double daily often close to full eastbound, Edinburgh does well out of SWF, with single class product there are few suits onboard. SNN has outperformed expectations, without doubt pre clearance is a big draw

Passenger feed back in the main is very positive especially the ease of border controls at PVD & SWF compared with JFK and Logan I wouldn’t be surprised to see Dublin going to 3 daily next summer

[VickersVicount]

Cant see 3 daily. If its going great-guns theyd just put something bigger on one of the rotations. Although mind you they have a lot of MAXs to deploy and keep busy..

[ld0595]

July CAA stats seem to be out. Can't post URL links because of my low post count but a link can be found on the Cardiff thread.

If my calculations are correct, the Beijing, Newark and Chicago load factors are all around 93/94%. Washington is a little lower at 85%.

[Plane mad 134]

I heard if the Emirates flight goes well there is a high chance of it being upgraded to 2x daily that would be interesting to see how Qatar react to that.

[awwdabaaby]

It's took Stockholm 5 years to go double daily, it won't be that quick believe me

[VickersVicount]

Oooft, the EDI usuals are getting more carried away than usual! Has the first service even started or embedded yet?
Would imagine EK will dominate QR.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Newcastle still isn’t double daily.....
I suspect EDI will be a good fit for EK, it will also cannibalise GLA as there’s no way their Scottish based Skywards customers won’t be lured East if it suits now they have the option.
GLA are re-building stand 30 for the A380 which means one of two things.
1) They decided to do this on the basis EK would then send them an A380 if they put the infrastructure in place first
2) They knew EDI was coming and GLA may be more suited for high volume economy on the two class A380 whereas EDI would be launched with a few to going twice daily on a three class B77W.

Scotland then well covered.

[CabinCrewe]

https://airwaysmag.com/traveler/the-hainan-taster-experience-edinburgh-to-dublin/
With only 50 passengers out of 280 on the EDI-DUB leg, are all the passengers boarding in DUB to fill it for the onward flight to PEK?

[ld0595]

I took the EDI-DUB Hainan flight at the end of August and there were no more than two or three empty seats in economy. The vast majority of passengers appeared to be just doing the hop to Dublin - certainly the two people next to me were only doing EDI-DUB. I saw a few who appeared to be going onto Beijing - notably the family behind me, but I didn’t notice anyone who seemed to be doing PEK-EDI-DUB though.

[mullac30]

Does anyone have any idea why there were two QR A350's (A7-ALS, A7-ALM) in today?

[737aviator]

Does anyone have any idea why there were two QR A350's (A7-ALS, A7-ALM) in today?
The one which arrived yesterday is tech.

[theredbarron]

https://airwaysmag.com/traveler/the-hainan-taster-experience-edinburgh-to-dublin/
With only 50 passengers out of 280 on the EDI-DUB leg, are all the passengers boarding in DUB to fill it for the onward flight to PEK?
I would have thought that most pax would, if they had the flexibility on dates, opt to use their own direct service rather than transit Edinburgh or Dublin. I most certainly would - why add two or three hours plus and the hassle of disembarking and boarding again at an intermediate stop onto an already long flight?

[Sk1schoolsam]

Inside the newly open Edinburgh Extension gate area for gates 12-16 which opened earlier (in part) today. Looks good and very quite at the moment 😊. Large Pret and a small WH Smith’s now open too in this space, still some hoarding up in the area so assume more retail to come. Wonder if space future Emirates lounge......😜

Tried to attach photos but failed.....

[A350Saltire]

Inside the newly open Edinburgh Extension gate area for gates 12-16 which opened earlier (in part) today. Looks good and very quite at the moment 😊. Large Pret and a small WH Smith’s now open too in this space, still some hoarding up in the area so assume more retail to come. Wonder if space future Emirates lounge......😜

Tried to attach photos but failed.....

I have seen some pics of it. Looks pretty good, plenty of seating and there seems to be a fair bit of space and natural light through the windows.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Does anyone have visablity on the Edi airfield expansion 2b and the creation of new stands. Are these for pasanager or cargo aircraft?
work looks like it’s about to start....

[Plane mad 134]

As I see there has been more expansion happened in terms of more aircraft parking and passenger space, I have looked at potential unserved and underserved routes that my happen:

Bucharest: Wizz Air, Ryanair (most likely) or Blue air possibly even Tarom as this is a major unserved destination could work 3-4 x a week.
Delhi: Air India or Jet Airways this is the biggest unserved destination with 40,000 passengers going indirect or from another airport this could work 1 daily.
Hannover: Eurowings (most likely), Flybe or Wizzair 3x a week.
Hong Kong: This would be a far stretch but Cathay possibly 5x weekly on an A350-900.
Los Angeles and Las Vegas: Again a long stretch but If it happens United, Virgin Atlantic or Thomas Cook could maybe try 1-2 x weekly each.
Moscow: Aeroflot A320 1x daily.
Orlando: Thomas Cook or Virgin Atlantic 1-2 x weekly.

A few of these are very unlikely to happen but these are the biggest unserved routes and a few are quite likely to get announced sometime although possibly seasonal only, in the near future.

What do you guys think?

Best regards

[mullac30]

As I see there has been more expansion happened in terms of more aircraft parking and passenger space, I have looked at potential unserved and underserved routes that my happen:

Bucharest: Wizz Air, Ryanair (most likely) or Blue air possibly even Tarom as this is a major unserved destination could work 3-4 x a week.
Delhi: Air India or Jet Airways this is the biggest unserved destination with 40,000 passengers going indirect or from another airport this could work 1 daily.
Hannover: Eurowings (most likely), Flybe or Wizzair 3x a week.
Hong Kong: This would be a far stretch but Cathay possibly 5x weekly on an A350-900.
Los Angeles and Las Vegas: Again a long stretch but If it happens United, Virgin Atlantic or Thomas Cook could maybe try 1-2 x weekly each.
Moscow: Aeroflot A320 1x daily.
Orlando: Thomas Cook or Virgin Atlantic 1-2 x weekly.

A few of these are very unlikely to happen but these are the biggest unserved routes and a few are quite likely to get announced sometime although possibly seasonal only, in the near future.

What do you guys think?

Best regards
I'd say as a rule that any long haul route from MAN or DUB is viable at EDI with the right frequency. I'd also say that we might see Air Canada opening new routes with the MAX like they did in Ireland.

[edi_local]

As I see there has been more expansion happened in terms of more aircraft parking and passenger space, I have looked at potential unserved and underserved routes that my happen:

Bucharest: Wizz Air, Ryanair (most likely) or Blue air possibly even Tarom as this is a major unserved destination could work 3-4 x a week.
Delhi: Air India or Jet Airways this is the biggest unserved destination with 40,000 passengers going indirect or from another airport this could work 1 daily.
Hannover: Eurowings (most likely), Flybe or Wizzair 3x a week.
Hong Kong: This would be a far stretch but Cathay possibly 5x weekly on an A350-900.
Los Angeles and Las Vegas: Again a long stretch but If it happens United, Virgin Atlantic or Thomas Cook could maybe try 1-2 x weekly each.
Moscow: Aeroflot A320 1x daily.
Orlando: Thomas Cook or Virgin Atlantic 1-2 x weekly.

A few of these are very unlikely to happen but these are the biggest unserved routes and a few are quite likely to get announced sometime although possibly seasonal only, in the near future.

What do you guys think?

Best regards

Personally I think S7 would be more likely to start Moscow than Aeroflot. They serve DUB already. It is a mystery why EDI doesn't have a Moscow service, I am sure at even 5 per week or summer only it would do just fine.

[CabinCrewe]

Didnt Transaero try it in the past a drop it. I suppose even if it was a flop last time, it has been known for failed routes to try again. Just look at PHL.
No frills /low cost Pobeda to Dublin 4/wk could be worth watching.
Think BA have cut back significantly their UK-Moscow offering and the EZY experiment was short lived.

[CraigJay]

Cathay are doing well at Dublin, think we’ll see them in the near future at EDI. We know China Eastern have EDI in their plans for a route to Shanghai so we’ll see what happens there.
Edinburgh only having one route to Canada, a seasonal one as well, is nowhere near good enough so I’d expect that to improve soon. Westjet have been talking with edinburgh so we might see that come to fruition or we might see rouge/ac mainline going year round.

[Plane mad 134]

A canadian service year round would be fantastic and so would China Eastern but they may push Hainan out of the china market.

[Rutan16]

Plane mad and Craigjay;

Hainan at both Manchester and Edinburgh are effectively Cassia charters combining a nice cargo uplift whilst about a 1/3 of cabin capacity is offered for general sale from Manchester and slightly less from Edinburgh due to shared Dublin capacity.

Open sales from the UK and particularly the front of the cabins are rather disappointing to be conservative !

The Various HNA routes into Heathrow from the secondary and tertiary Chinese markets are following a similar trajectory.

Air China has almost All the business traffic from China including Chinese government and major business (leading party members in the main) to and from the country. China Southern serves much of the remaining trade and is the preferred second carrier of the CAAC much in the way British Caledonian used to be here !
Whilst for reasons of an internal political conflict ongoing between regional and central state agencies at Shanghai between Air China and China Eastern over slots significant expansion here is stymied at the moment.

Without astronomical subsidies from regional governments and the Chinese tax payers the vast majority of those secondary and tertiary routes wouldn’t ever be considered by any truly commercial profit driven business period stop - Evident British Airways failure on purely commercial grounds to Chengdu !

China is far from a goldmine and aviation and multiple colours are a sham of classical Chinese smoke and mirrors.

As for Russian routes to and from the UK please read the political runes carefully - certainly None to/from the regions in the near and medium term - even Alex Salmond ego and entourage won’t fill a weekly 320 flight to the RT studios for his regular treacherous broadcasts !

Hong Kong is always heavily cargo based - Might work I suppose however does the runway length support a fulling loaded 359 landing I just don’t know ( I say landing because the majority of the boxes will be imports)

An Indian route will be some time off imho - Jet are still 8 weeks from commencing Manchester and have yet to measure the performance and further they have a well known record of binning routes if the numbers don’t add up rather quickly.
Whilst Air India go where the GOI TELL THEM TO over what might be an obvious commercial opportunity !
And those other Indian largely flexible fares operators remain constrained by GOI policies and the varous bilatteral treaties, many of which set strict seating capacity limits in the market to protect Air India !

West Coast US and Canada imho remain better serviced from Glasgow where Scotland commercially supports those but only on a very limited summer schedule similar to Manchester - remember that airport has only had service for two seasons so far (Yes Manchester did have connections to Los Angeles by Laker and British Airways in decades past I know) , whilst Vancouver has been served in the past from the Clyde and Ayrshire .

Could those Air Canada Max8s commercially serve Edinburgh from YYZ more frequently than Rouge well yes quite possibly and even year round perhaps twice a week in deep mid winter - Same could be said for their Manchester offerings however the fleet is already stretched on longer domestic and the close TALC routes they are deployed on.

As for South Africa not a chance on SAA ( They are effectively bankrupt) and can’t even make a return on their remaining Heathrow daily flight and are totally reliant on partner Lufthansa Group for support of the German and Swiss routes over those Hubs.
Whilst the chance of IAG carriers offering anything other than dumping you on a shuttle “darn souf’ to Heathrow or Gatwick for the winter Capetown service is about as likely as .............. Ie Not a chance - Well unless and until Thomas Cook offer a seasonal Manchester service and for several seasons and then evaluate the numbers and only then - but probably they’ll go for Glasgow over Edinburgh imho !

Right now and this also applies at Manchester the next few seasons Will be about consolidation and retaining their central long haul offerings.

2019 will be a defining and difficult year for a variety of reasons imho.

Oh and haven’t mentioned two Scandinavian based carriers because they have both signaled they are looking beyond the UK markets in 2019 and both are in financial stress and showing substantial gearing pressure with 2019 being an defining year if long term survival is to be secured .

Norwegian may yet be a target for a take over from someone , whilst Primera seem content on looking at mainland European expansion opportunities surprisingly in some of the major markets and against the established alliance groupings !
Whilst that Icelandic carrier WOW are struggling to sell debt bond packages I understand the ensure sufficient liquidity - Certainly not a good sign or one for stakeholders confidence !

[OltonPete]

Transavia Orly

I apologise if this has been discussed but what is the status of this service. Winter shows it ends early November then a couple of flights over Christmas and nothing beyond - is it seasonal now or ending?

Finnair

At times in winter it appears to be 3 a week on the 190 - has this changed or always being the case.

Munich

Winter showing Munich Friday & Sunday Eurowings and Lufthansa Tuesday and Saturday???? Is the LH a ski flight as hardly aimed at connecting flights at this frequency and how unusual two airlines from the same group - aircraft availability?

Pete

[tartan 201]

Transavia Orly

I apologise if this has been discussed but what is the status of this service. Winter shows it ends early November then a couple of flights over Christmas and nothing beyond - is it seasonal now or ending

Finnair

At times in winter it appears to be 3 a week on the 190 - has this changed or always being the case.


Transavia operated last winter. I don't know if their cessation of Edinburgh flights this winter means that the route will no longer operate at all in the future or will become a summer-only route.

Finnair were previously summer only and three weekly in winter was always the plan since it was announced earlier this year: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-42635825

[inOban]

Last winter France played Scotland (rugby) in Edinburgh. That was a hook for several Orly flights, as it's a big weekend for them. This year of course it's in Paris, and not so many Scots travel. But certainly they've cut back.

I'm not sure if they've put any schedule on sale after end March. Neither have Iberia Express from Madrid. And Munich has the same schedule in summer as winter, which seems unlikely.

[OltonPete]

Transavia operated last winter. I don't know if their cessation of Edinburgh flights this winter means that the route will no longer operate at all in the future or will become a summer-only route.

Finnair were previously summer only and three weekly in winter was always the plan since it was announced earlier this year: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-42635825

Cheers tartan 201.

I must have been dreaming I thought it was going to be on the Airbus 4 x a week. I see it did operate November & December last year then stopped so a gain for the New Year period.

inOban "I'm not sure if they've put any schedule on sale after end March. Neither have Iberia Express from Madrid. And Munich has the same schedule in summer as winter, which seems unlikely"

I didn't notice the IB Express Madrid which operated last winter but certainly not bookable either winter or summer 19. BHX is bookable for both so not looking great.

China

I thought I posted my estimate of the July load factor but obviously forgot the important bit "send". Using an average of 30 - 50 on the EDI-DUB sectors (788/789 mix) in transit not local traffic, I reckon around 73% load factor on the direct flights. All a bit of a guess really but harmless fun for some.

Pete

[Breathe]

As I see there has been more expansion happened in terms of more aircraft parking and passenger space, I have looked at potential unserved and underserved routes that my happen:

Bucharest: Wizz Air, Ryanair (most likely) or Blue air possibly even Tarom as this is a major unserved destination could work 3-4 x a week.
Wizz Air moved from PIK to GLA and have gradually been downsizing their offering since. Given the strength of Wizz Air in Eastern Europe, it could make work along with other destinations, if they decided to make a go of it at EDI.
Delhi: Air India or Jet Airways this is the biggest unserved destination with 40,000 passengers going indirect or from another airport this could work 1 daily.
I doubt very much either of these carriers will be coming to EDI anytime soon, especially AI! They are in a financial mess. An India route isn't totally out of the question though, IndiGo have been rumored to be looking at buying widebody aircraft for long-haul routes. So perhaps a summer seasonal/charter could happen, but probably not for a good couple of years.
Hannover: Eurowings (most likely), Flybe or Wizzair 3x a week.
A summer seasonal could work here.
Hong Kong: This would be a far stretch but Cathay possibly 5x weekly on an A350-900.
Probably not going to happen in the short term, but then again, they did announce DUB recently. While in the same region, Singapore might not be out of the question. According to this data (slide 27):

http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/9904/edinburgh_by_numbers_2017.pdf

an estimated 14,000 people visited from Singapore, add to that connections to the rest of the region, a route with SQ might be viable if the figures stack up, and after all, they do need to fly all those planes they've ordered somewhere. :)

Los Angeles and Las Vegas: Again a long stretch but If it happens United, Virgin Atlantic or Thomas Cook could maybe try 1-2 x weekly each.

Orlando: Thomas Cook or Virgin Atlantic 1-2 x weekly.

I really don't see any of these routes happening anytime soon. Norwegian made noises when they announced the east coast routes, that places like San Francisco and LA would start a few years later. Given their financial situation, who knows if this will likely to come to fruition. In terms of the USA, perhaps United could be inclined to adding another seasonal route to their hubs (hopefully this doesn't come at the expense of GLA) and Delta might try again with their Atlanta megahub.

As others have mentioned, with only one seasonal route with Rouge, Canada seems more a more likely bet for Tran-Atlantic routes in the near future.

Moscow: Aeroflot A320 1x daily.
Given the political climate, I doubt a Moscow route will happen anytime soon.

In terms of other routes:

China - another route is certainly possible if Hainan make a success of EDI.
Tokyo - they've been charters in the past as part of European tours. ANA have said that they looking to expand their European operations. So perhaps a summer seasonal might not be out of the realms of possibility.
Europe/domestic - no doubt they'll be many continental European routes that will come (and go), they're too many routes across the continent to speculate about! In terms of domestic routes, perhaps flybe will try to succeed where easyJet failed at Southend Airport. The owners have said they would like an EDI route.

Just my 2 pence. :)

[Donkey497]

Was at a presentation during the week on the expansion plans up to 2040. Very interesting how the place is likely to change.

For the short tern the first batch of new stands are aimed mainly at the regional / short haul aircraft size and will have been in service for a few months by this time next year.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Was at a presentation during the week on the expansion plans up to 2040. Very interesting how the place is likely to change.

For the short tern the first batch of new stands are aimed mainly at the regional / short haul aircraft size and will have been in service for a few months by this time next year.

Where are these stands being built, assume remote stands for Q400 or E190 type aircraft to free up contact stands for larger aircraft?

What else can you share on the future plans and is the presentation available on line?

[inOban]

Ryanair have now loaded S19, not sure if it's complete.

So far I've noticed 1. Carcassonne ends next month and doesn't come back. 2. Hahn ends at the end of W18. 3. Berlin, which transfers from Glasgow at the start of W18 seems to disappear at the end of the winter. 4. Seville only operates this winter.
Some other routes which started in W17 are suspended this winter but restart for S19.
I'm sure others will find other changes.

[mwm991]

Ryanair have now loaded S19, not sure if it's complete.

So far I've noticed 1. Carcassonne ends next month and doesn't come back. 2. Hahn ends at the end of W18. 3. Berlin, which transfers from Glasgow at the start of W18 seems to disappear at the end of the winter. 4. Seville only operates this winter.
Some other routes which started in W17 are suspended this winter but restart for S19.
I'm sure others will find other changes.
I don't think the German schedules are loaded yet?

[inOban]

Some German destinations are loaded., but several aren't.

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Re Transaero, I worked at EDI back then and loads were typically between 10-30 per sector. Go figure.

[Sk1schoolsam]

CAA passenger figures for August - When are they due to be released?

[CCFAIRPORT]

ryanair have now loaded s19, not sure if it's complete.

So far i've noticed 1. Carcassonne ends next month and doesn't come back. 2. Hahn ends at the end of w18. 3. Berlin, which transfers from glasgow at the start of w18 seems to disappear at the end of the winter. 4. Seville only operates this winter.
Some other routes which started in w17 are suspended this winter but restart for s19.
I'm sure others will find other changes.

1. Ccf will be there next summer 2 pw tue/sat :)

[edi_local]

Re Transaero, I worked at EDI back then and loads were typically between 10-30 per sector. Go figure.

Was that not mainly down to the fact that at the time, Russians were not travelling as much as they currently do and it also had a ridiculous frequency?

[inOban]

CAA passenger figures for August - When are they due to be released?

I think you mean the airport's own figures - we've only just had the CAA figures for July.

Don't know why they're so late. Last year they were released on the 11th.

[Plane mad 134]

I hope Norwegian add their America flights soon as It would be bad if they are dropped for S19 its been a while since they uploaded the Irish schedule? Anyone know whats happening?

[GoEDI]

No EDI based stuff on sale yet, that includes OSL. I'm sure it will be on sale in the next month or so as it was around Oct it was released last year. What they have up their sleeve remains to be seen... I do believe there will be changes as they can't keep SWF at daily if PVD re-starts using 1 based aircraft, unless something is away based.

BCN/TFS not on sale yet either.

[Plane mad 134]

Ok that makes sense, thanks.

[southside bobby]

Norwegian...

Being reported the last of the Transatlantic routes from EDI are to be withdrawn.

BCN/TFS also withdrawn.

Crew base to close.

[CabinCrewe]

Interesting. Maybe not such the goldmine we're led to believe. No doubt theories (as with Etihad), that being singled out was nothing to do with the route but all to do with a precarious airline.
Could still be to play however until comfirmed if this is just speculative rumour. A lot of competition on some of those routes and some complicated crewing. They do have a good product.
Think some did predict the slightly weird TA routes wouldnt last long term. The backpackers who came to bolster these routes will no doubt drift back to the uber cheap KL/BA/DY fares ex London.
One wonders, if true, what component of the TA routes failed- unfilled aircraft with low yielding pax or other. Its odd that the original marketing and advertising was short lived. The small narrowbody regional transatlantic experiment doesnt seem to be doing anyone any favours. Maybe Primera will swoop in with their reliable efforts (!) and DY can continue some limited away based flying.

[southside bobby]

APD blamed...

[SWBKCB]

APD blamed...

How original. Just another way of saying the route didn't pay with the added benefit of blaming/pressurising somebosy else.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Norwegian...

Being reported the last of the Transatlantic routes from EDI are to be withdrawn.

BCN/TFS also withdrawn.

Crew base to close.

Disappointing if this is true, especially about the TFS/BCN routes which are away based planes. Used the TFS route many times and always very busy but don’t have access to the load factors to see how they compare to the others on these routes.
agree the product and service is good for a LLC and so were the slots times unlike others who like to fly through the night.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Interesting. Maybe not such the goldmine we're led to believe. No doubt theories (as with Etihad), that being singled out was nothing to do with the route but all to do with a precarious airline.
Could still be to play however until comfirmed if this is just speculative rumour. A lot of competition on some of those routes and some complicated crewing. They do have a good product.
Think some did predict the slightly weird TA routes wouldnt last long term. The backpackers who came to bolster these routes will no doubt drift back to the uber cheap KL/BA/DY fares ex London.
One wonders, if true, what component of the TA routes failed- unfilled aircraft with low yielding pax or other. Its odd that the original marketing and advertising was short lived. The small narrowbody regional transatlantic experiment doesnt seem to be doing anyone any favours. Maybe Primera will swoop in with their reliable efforts (!) and DY can continue some limited away based flying.

The small narrow body TA experiment does though seam to be working well out of Ireland with increased routes and rotations in Dublin and others so why not Scotland?
Guess that is where they will move the EDI aircraft and crew too. 😐

[solent]

Is this the start of a decline at EDI, has it reached its peak?

First Etihad and now Norwegian.

Is there any other airline with worrying load factors at EDI...

[Andanzas]

Is this the start of a decline at EDI, has it reached its peak?

First Etihad and now Norwegian.

Is there any other airline with worrying load factors at EDI...
EK cancelling days 2&3

[mwm991]

Between APD and throwing public money at the Prestwick white elephant, the SNP are making a dog's dinners of aviation in Scotland, and also without a centralised hub like the Irish do with Dublin, Scotland will always be vulnerable to losing service like this, anyway. Very disappointing, IMO.

[Andanzas]

EK to reduce to 5 flights from end of October. Cancels days 2&3

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

DUB is a hub because it has a based former government owned flag carrier and political clout, so not something Scotland’s fragmented approach has. Ironically competition between GLA/EDI/PIK means the public wins on price but loses the chance to have world class facilities. DUB T2 is quite the advert for Ireland whereas GLA and EDI are just there to build shareholder value and not one penny more should be spent that doesn’t serve that. And I say that as a fan of free markets.....

[edi_local]

Between APD and throwing public money at the Prestwick white elephant, the SNP are making a dog's dinners of aviation in Scotland, and also without a centralised hub like the Irish do with Dublin, Scotland will always be vulnerable to losing service like this, anyway. Very disappointing, IMO.

SNP bashing is not really necessary here. As a minority government they cannot simply do what they want. They tried to get backing for it, but other parties politicised the budget and it ultimately only go through with green support, who would never agree to an APD cut....and didn't. The EU legislation issues were also cited as a reason and although there is some truth in that, I think personally it was over Exaggerated somewhat and a solution could have been found.

I do agree the SNP could be better with aviation, but this one is not solely down to them, it was a combined effort...or lack thereof.

As we see though, other airliners don't appear to have an issue with APD in Scotland. Ryanair scrapped some GLA routes, mumbling about APD, but have now announced they are going to bring them back, so presumably they were making more money than they let on. Jet2.com have nothing bad to say about APD, they have grown and continue to grow in spite of the rates and have shown no real sign of supporting a cut or withdrawal, they are more or less neutral on it. If APD is such an issue then no one appears to have told the airlines who have all flocked to Scotland in recent years. Norwegian, in all honesty, have a few internal issues that need attention.

[edi_local]

Is this the start of a decline at EDI, has it reached its peak?

First Etihad and now Norwegian.

Is there any other airline with worrying load factors at EDI...

Etihad are shrinking around the world. It's not an indication of EDI failing to hold on to premium routes. Norwegian also have issues.

More airlines have expanded or launched at EDI in recent years than have retreated.

[inOban]

I think that the rise in oil prices, and slow growth in the UK economy (never mind the risk of a B*tsh*t Brexit) will result in quite slow growth in the UK airline market generally -as indeed could be seeyat many airports this year, although the fine summer depressed last-minute bookings also.

As far as Norwegian, BCN will be served daily next summer by both FR and Vueling. TFS is served by four airlines/holiday companies, and if there is a need for more capacity, then I'm sure it will be provided.

The TATL flights had high = profitable fares for only a few weeks in high season. I'm wondering whether WOW/Kevlavik is turning into a loco equivalent of EK/Dubai. A shortish flight, a break of journey, and onward flights to almost anywhere in North America.
I doubt the loss will reduce the number of TA passengers at EDI.

[j636]

APD is a red herring when most other T/A carriers have been growing ex UK. Low cost T/A only appears to only be working from Capital Cities in Europe to main (ish) airports in the US where there is established operation. Premiair Air, Level and Norwegian appear to be all focusing on these places.

Saying that EDI should have delivered better results with or without APD.

[Sk1schoolsam]

I think that the rise in oil prices, and slow growth in the UK economy (never mind the risk of a B*tsh*t Brexit) will result in quite slow growth in the UK airline market generally -as indeed could be seeyat many airports this year, although the fine summer depressed last-minute bookings also.

As far as Norwegian, BCN will be served daily next summer by both FR and Vueling. TFS is served by four airlines/holiday companies, and if there is a need for more capacity, then I'm sure it will be provided.

The TATL flights had high = profitable fares for only a few weeks in high season. I'm whether WOW/Kevlavik is turning into a loco equivalent of EK/Dubai. A shortish flight, a break of journey, and onward flights to almost anywhere in North America.
I doubt the loss will reduce the number of TA passengers at EDI.

The Norwegian TFS flights were at really good humane hours for families unlike the referenced “holiday” companies. Sorry there is no way I want to fly back with my family and arrive between 1 and 3 am!! Guess I will have to fly from somewhere else now......
Thanks for the heads up on The additional BCN flights.

Stunned that EK have been advertising there new EDI “daily” flights only to immediately cut to 5 days per week. Is it permanent or just for W18? Does not add up....

[CraigJay]

The Norwegian TFS flights were at really good humane hours for families unlike the referenced “holiday” companies. Sorry there is no way I want to fly back with my family and arrive between 1 and 3 am!! Guess I will have to fly from somewhere else now......
Thanks for the heads up on The additional BCN flights.

Stunned that EK have been advertising there new EDI “daily” flights only to immediately cut to 5 days per week. Is it permanent or just for W18? Does not add up....

Pilot shortage for EK, they were meant to be taking pilots from SAA but QR came along and offered a better deal and hoovered them all up. If you have to make cuts you’re not going to cut back on well established routes, unfortunately EDI is an an easy choice.

[Andanzas]

The Norwegian TFS flights were at really good humane hours for families unlike the referenced “holiday” companies. Sorry there is no way I want to fly back with my family and arrive between 1 and 3 am!! Guess I will have to fly from somewhere else now......
Thanks for the heads up on The additional BCN flights.

Stunned that EK have been advertising there new EDI “daily” flights only to immediately cut to 5 days per week. Is it permanent or just for W18? Does not add up....
From 28th October to Xmas and then from 15th January onwards 5/week flying only days 1,4,5,6,7

[Sk1schoolsam]

Pilot shortage for EK, they were meant to be taking pilots from SAA but QR came along and offered a better deal and hoovered them all up. If you have to make cuts you’re not going to cut back on well established routes, unfortunately EDI is an an easy choice.

Thanks for the information, does this mean that there is a chance of it going back to daily in the future?

[Plane mad 134]

Its not good to see Norwegian go and Emirates decrease before they have even started but I guess Norwegian was always going to happen anyway. On the other hand it seems positive talks are ongoing with some airlines and we may see some new routes and frequency increases soon to cover the loss.

[sinbad73]

Pilot shortage for EK, they were meant to be taking pilots from SAA but QR came along and offered a better deal and hoovered them all up. If you have to make cuts you’re not going to cut back on well established routes, unfortunately EDI is an an easy choice.

Are you able to advise which other routes are affected by the pilot shortage?

Or ones with cheap fares/triple mileage promotions?

[VickersVicount]

If you have to make cuts you’re not going to cut back on well established routes, unfortunately EDI is an an easy choice.
Mmm. Thats not normally how it works. For inaugural route launches its normally the opposite, where everything is thrown at a new route to ensure successful launch especially on routes where there is competition. Even QR did that at the outset when the initial launch was dire (sometimes less than 50% loads) As EK well know the one thing you most certainly dont want to do is antagonise potential high fare frequent fliers with schedule changes and cancellations (you are more likely to be able to slip them into established multi frequency routes). You'll end up losing passengers before things are established.
Perhaps EK know this route will have a big chunk of outbound one off holiday makers and honeymooners who will care not a jot.
I would imagine it will veer back daily at some point in the future.
If one GLA services goes A380 maybe that frees up 777 pilots ;) Although if there is such a crisis in pilots - why all the expansion elsewhere?

[inOban]

Was it not already planned to be reduced for a period next year during major work on DXB?

[sinbad73]

Was it not already planned to be reduced for a period next year during major work on DXB?

Yes, but there have been further reductions.

[EIFFS]

APD is a red herring when most other T/A carriers have been growing ex UK. Low cost T/A only appears to only be working from Capital Cities in Europe to main (ish) airports in the US where there is established operation. Premiair Air, Level and Norwegian appear to be all focusing on these places.

Saying that EDI should have delivered better results with or without APD.

APD alone accounts for £78.00 per economy passenger and remember that’s only applied on the outbound add other airport charges and its easy to see that numbers don’t add up compared with ex Ireland at €3 a flight.

So for a family of 4 (kids above 16) that’s £312 in APD alone.

6 x 150 average load = 900 x 52 weeks a year 22,500 x £78 = £1,755,000 not so a red herring more a deal breaker and something the SNP promised to half then abolish, but they need the Greens to sustain their minority administration, goodbye jobs in Scotland, but no matter keep supporting PIK

[Plane mad 134]

Good news as routes online confirm Emirates will go back to Daily after the runway works in Dubai.

1st October to 27th of October- 1x daily
28th October to 3rd of December- 5x weekly
4th December to 14th of January- 1x daily
15th January to 27th of March- 5x weekly
28th March to 15th of April- 1x daily
16th April to 30th May- 5x weekly (Dubai runway works)
eff31May19 1x daily

[SWBKCB]

APD alone accounts for £78.00 per economy passenger and remember that’s only applied on the outbound add other airport charges and its easy to see that numbers don’t add up compared with ex Ireland at €3 a flight.

So for a family of 4 (kids above 16) that’s £312 in APD alone.

6 x 150 average load = 900 x 52 weeks a year 22,500 x £78 = £1,755,000 not so a red herring more a deal breaker


All of which Norwegian knew and will (should) have taken into account when they launched the flights - as nothing has changed, using it as a reason to drop the flight is just an excuse.

[Porrohman]

All of which Norwegian knew and will (should) have taken into account when they launched the flights - as nothing has changed, using it as a reason to drop the flight is just an excuse.

As mentioned several times by others earlier in this thread, Norwegian were expecting APD to be halved, then abolished.

[Sk1schoolsam]

All of which Norwegian knew and will (should) have taken into account when they launched the flights - as nothing has changed, using it as a reason to drop the flight is just an excuse.

cant be using this excuse for the BCN and TFS routes, what’s the word on them? Are they gone?

[SWBKCB]

As mentioned several times by others earlier in this thread, Norwegian were expecting APD to be halved, then abolished.

Apologies, I thought the Scottish Govts difficulties with APD pre-dated Norwegians launch of T/A flights :O

[inOban]

cant be using this excuse for the BCN and TFS routes, what’s the word on them? Are they gone?

Both gone.

[mullac30]

There is always the benefit of Norwegian leaving, being that it will open up the routes for other carriers like JetBlue and Primera to operate to primary airports with better service and aircraft.

[VickersVicount]

If Norwegian struggled would be surprised to see Primera, though they do seem a little off the wall. The loss of Norwegian I cant see being inextricably linked to a sudden flurry of other mainline carriers.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Both gone.

Thanks inOban, very disappointing and don’t get the logic as both away based aircraft routes. Those who have access may have load factor details that may show a reason why.

(IMO feels like they are just sticking 2 fingers up to Scotland, EDI et al. Surprised they are keeping any routes ....IMO)

[Sk1schoolsam]

If Norwegian struggled would be surprised to see Primera, though they do seem a little off the wall. The loss of Norwegian I cant see being inextricably linked to a sudden flurry of other mainline carriers.

Any further rumblings on TA Delta expansion or Virgin arrival?
IMO - See that more likely than another LLC

[CraigJay]

I don’t know anything for certain but I’m pretty confident you’ll see BOS with DL soon, they should be announcing LIS soon and I don’t think EDI will be far behind.

[Haldane90]

If Norwegian cant make EDI work then Primera cant and won't IMO. Tried and failed move on and see what S19 brings, personally I cant see Boston being added anytime soon, If Delta were to expand in Scotland futhermore I would bet my bottom dollar on ATL.

[mullac30]

If Norwegian cant make EDI work then Primera cant and won't IMO. Tried and failed move on and see what S19 brings, personally I cant see Boston being added anytime soon, If Delta were to expand in Scotland futhermore I would bet my bottom dollar on ATL.
I think they could make it work as PF and DL fly to/from primary airports with higher frequency, many average punters will not know when Bradley Windsor Locks is, but they will definitely know where Boston is.

[Haldane90]

I think they could make it work as PF and DL fly to/from primary airports with higher frequency, many average punters will not know when Bradley Windsor Locks is, but they will definitely know where Boston is.


Were Norwegian not advertising these routes as 'Boston' & 'New York' though?

I do believe Boston is a missing link from Scotland however with Brexit looming I cannot see any expansion. Happy and hope to be proved wrong

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

I don’t know anything for certain but I’m pretty confident you’ll see BOS with DL soon, they should be announcing LIS soon and I don’t think EDI will be far behind.
BOS isn’t even served out of LHR on Delta metal so it would be a major change. JFK has a host of Delta feed as well as O&D traffic, BOS not even close by comparison. When NW flew GLA/PIK-BOS, it was also to connect onwards, today that is better served over EWR/JFK/ORD.

[CabinCrewe]

Newburgh RoutesOnline details
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/280629/norwegian-ends-edinburgh-newburgh-stewart-service-in-march-2019/

[VickersVicount]

DL EDI-BOS? Im surprised youre 'pretty confident'... can't see that one currently at all. Unless something gives, DL narrowbody long haul is also fully utilised.

[Plane mad 134]

Edinburgh August stats now out, 1.4 million passengers passes through the airport in August.
I wonder If Edinburgh might hit 14 or 15 million passengers this year?

[GoEDI]

Thanks inOban, very disappointing and don’t get the logic as both away based aircraft routes. Those who have access may have load factor details that may show a reason why.

(IMO feels like they are just sticking 2 fingers up to Scotland, EDI et al. Surprised they are keeping any routes ....IMO)

The Spanish routes have been on borrowed time for the past year or so since they dropped AGP, along with ALC/AGP/BCN from MAN and AGP/BCN/TFS from BHX. It's not an EDI specific issue, it was part of a larger review of UK short haul ops due to overcapacity in some markets, particularly Spain. EDI-TFS and BCN have multiple operators on them (plus GRO and REU also served), so not surprised to see them go.

[Sk1schoolsam]

Edinburgh August stats now out, 1.4 million passengers passes through the airport in August.
I wonder If Edinburgh might hit 14 or 15 million passengers this year?

With the rolling total YTD at 13,906,051 passengers I would imagine if they sustain a steady 5% growth per month they won’t be far of 14million rolling total by the turn of the year, 15 is a bit optimistic 😄
The question is whither the current growth can be sustained given recent news. Last winter saw the cancellation of the FR Stansted flights (pilot holiday debacle), I would think their return will boost numbers but there have been routes lost compared to last year too. With EK only 5 days / week through most of the W18 this might not make much +ve difference.

I may be wrong but the growth levels are still above what was planned for a few years back, will this prompt the private owners to bring out the check book and finance a sorely needed main terminal expansion....principally the check in area?

One can only hope, and that the occasional murmur of Delta/ Virgin TA flights come true also.

[LGWAlan]

BOS isn’t even served out of LHR on Delta metal so it would be a major change. JFK has a host of Delta feed as well as O&D traffic, BOS not even close by comparison. When NW flew GLA/PIK-BOS, it was also to connect onwards, today that is better served over EWR/JFK/ORD.

Does this discount the daily DL059 then? LHR-BOS 0920-1225 in January - daily service on a 76W

[Mister Geezer]

I have heard that the loads with EK have not been as robust as expected.

The big draw for premium passengers to Glasgow will undoubtably be the dedicated EK lounge, which is a great facility and hugely popular. Given that the chauffeur drive service for premium pax for GLA flights covers all of Edinburgh, perhaps more Edinburgh residents flying in Business or First are taking their business down the M8?

QR have the upper hand at EDI, as their premium pax can use the BA lounge at EDI (which by all accounts is a very nice lounge) but sadly the Aspire facility is no match for this nor the EK dedicated lounge at GLA.

[edi_local]

I have heard that the loads with EK have not been as robust as expected.

The big draw for premium passengers to Glasgow will undoubtably be the dedicated EK lounge, which is a great facility and hugely popular. Given that the chauffeur drive service for premium pax for GLA flights covers all of Edinburgh, perhaps more Edinburgh residents flying in Business or First are taking their business down the M8?

QR have the upper hand at EDI, as their premium pax can use the BA lounge at EDI (which by all accounts is a very nice lounge) but sadly the Aspire facility is no match for this nor the EK dedicated lounge at GLA.

That's not a problem as QR use the No.1 Travellers Lounge at EDI, which is due to be relocated and expanded in the near future.

[Sk1schoolsam]

That's not a problem as QR use the No.1 Travellers Lounge at EDI, which is due to be relocated and expanded in the near future.

Interesting, where are they relocating too? And what it’s he current No1 Lounge becoming? EK lounge?

[Plane mad 134]

I wonder if this is to do with the Airline rumours, we have already got rumours of China Eastern to Shanghai, Delta to Boston and Hartsfield Jackson, Westjet or Air Canada year round and the usual Virgin Atlantic as well. Now I personally find it hard to believe some of these services will materialise in the near future, although some might this is maybe what the lounges are getting ready for?

[Mister Geezer]

The No1 lounge is terrible at EDI. I myself used it a couple of months ago. The staff are fantastic but the lounge itself is woeful with no ‘facilities’ in the lounge. The carpet in the lounge is so filthy, it would not look out of place in a Weatherspoons pub.

QR pax in Business flying from EDI should be allowed to use fellow OneWorld member lounges as per the terms and conditions as published by OneWorld? If a pax has QR FF ‘status’ then he/she should be able to use the BA lounge. In theory every QR pax travelling in business, or with the required FF ‘status’ should be able to access the BA lounge in EDI.

If this is an issue then they have every reason for bringing this up with OneWorld, as it is an exemption to the rule.

[Mister Geezer]

As an aside, the OneWorld website states that the BA lounge at EDI is available for:

Access for eligible customers traveling on any oneworld member airline

(travelling in/with the following ‘status’)

Business Class / First Class / Sapphire Tier / Emerald Tier

Therefore no QR passenger should be subjected to the No1 lounge at EDI.

[Sk1schoolsam]

As an aside, the OneWorld website states that the BA lounge at EDI is available for:

Access for eligible customers traveling on any oneworld member airline

(travelling in/with the following ‘status’)

Business Class / First Class / Sapphire Tier / Emerald Tier

Therefore no QR passenger should be subjected to the No1 lounge at EDI.


Was lucky enough to fly a couple of time Biz class with Qatar last year and used the BA lounge np. They have a sign in sheet for QR customers. Only small advantage of the current No1 Lounge is it’s closer to Gate 11 where QR flight tends to depart from IMO, BA lounge is far superior and better facilities 😊👍

[edi_local]

A few things to clarify.

QR now uses gate 4 since the change to the 359. For clarification eligible QR customers absolutely can use the BA lounge and many do as it's so close to gate 4 and especially on the afternoon departure when that lounge is usually quieter. The early morning flight is a bit more of a challenge as BA passengers tend to fill it up and they have priority. During times of BA disruption they can so restrict entry to BA customers only.

As far as im awarw The number 1 lounge is getting a new location somewhere in the extension. I'm not sure what's happening to the current Lounge. Eventually the steps leading to UK arrivals right next to the current Lounge will be closed off as part of the check in hall expansion. What will become of that big area though I don't know. Unless the lounge is being extended, renovated and staying where it is of course. There is definitely change on the way in the short term future.

[VickersVicount]

Hows Hainan doing in peak Edinburgh Festival month of August- rammed to the gunnels? or is the breakdown with DUB still causing statistical issues

[OltonPete]

Hows Hainan doing in peak Edinburgh Festival month of August- rammed to the gunnels? or is the breakdown with DUB still causing statistical issues

Difficult as it is a split load but if you say 40 on the days it stops first in Dublin it would leave around 162 direct just under 70% - it was 14 x 788 in August and 4 x 789 (direct) but not a particularly accurate way of measuring it.

Air France

Summer 19 showing all HOP 190's so like Manchester Mainline Air France seem to be on their bike...…………...where next - BHX? Better news Transavia France Orly bookable next summer Sunday, Monday and Friday.

Pete

[Sk1schoolsam]

Difficult as it is a split load but if you say 40 on the days it stops first in Dublin it would leave around 162 direct just under 70% - it was 14 x 788 in August and 4 x 789 (direct) but not a particularly accurate way of measuring it.

Air France

Summer 19 showing all HOP 190's so like Manchester Mainline Air France seem to be on their bike...…………...where next - BHX? Better news Transavia France Orly bookable next summer Sunday, Monday and Friday.

Pete

Thanks Pete:

So Transavia have dropped the Wednesday flight for S19 reducing the service from 4Weekly to 3 Weekly, and less capacity on Paris CDG, post Brexit concerns I fear. On a positive at least the routes are retained, albeit with fewer seats available.

[inOban]

There's no sign of Iberia Express returning at all in S19.

I think that the Eurowings services from CGN and DUS may have a reduced frequency. On the other hand, Munich goes over entirely to LH from the end of March.

[sinbad73]

There's no sign of Iberia Express returning at all in S19.

I think that the Eurowings services from CGN and DUS may have a reduced frequency. On the other hand, Munich goes over entirely to LH from the end of March.

I think EW may still be tinkering with their S19 schedules.

[tartan 201]

There's no sign of Iberia Express returning at all in S19.

It's on sale 4-weekly from the start of June then 6-weekly from the start of July, then back to 4-weekly in September and ending at the end of September. Similar to this year I think.

[Plane mad 134]

Thats good to hear, I also heard Ryanair may base a 10th Aircraft next summer.

[inOban]

It's on sale 4-weekly from the start of June then 6-weekly from the start of July, then back to 4-weekly in September and ending at the end of September. Similar to this year I think.

Where did you find them? Can't see them on the Iberia Express website.

[tartan 201]

Where did you find them? Can't see them on the Iberia Express website.

The Iberia website:
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1016x559/capture_daaaf51570c5e9134ca09fbc7f09713f6cda57d7.jpg

[inOban]

I was looking at a different part if the site. Skimming through the monthly calendar shows flights until the end of October, but none afterwards, as far as I could see.

[4eyed anorak]

August Stats.

A.T.M +1.2% Rolling Year 3%
Passengers 1,471,967 +5% Rolling Year 13,906,051 +6.3%

Regards 4ea

[inOban]

I know that the data are on the CAA website, but their data isn't quite comparable with the data which the airport publishes ( something to do with counting very young children, I think). Why haven't the airports published their own nunbers this month? At least not in the usual place.

[4eyed anorak]

Usually Edninburgh Airport are quite quick to publish their numbers. Especially if they're record numbers.

Regards 4ea

[VentureGo]

https://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/emirates-to-cut-frequencies-on-edinburgh-route-1.2283407
Emirates to cut frequencies on Edinburgh route
"Less than a week before it launches flights to Edinburgh, Emirates airline has said it will reduce frequencies on the route to five times a week from the initially-planned daily service".

[VickersVicount]

we are assured it is by no means a reflection on passenger forward bookings....

[SWBKCB]

So what is the reason for the EDI route to be chosen? :suspect:

[GoEDI]

So what is the reason for the EDI route to be chosen? :suspect:

It's not just EDI, the reductions are actually quite widespread:

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/280749/emirates-nw18-service-changes-as-of-27sep18/

These reductions are at the quietest times of the year for travel on EK generally. Whether it is down to them trying to operate in a more frugal manner, or there actually are crewing issues (in which case it make sense to preserve pilot flying hours by reducing flying at quieter times), I do not know...

No reason to think EK are going to struggle at EDI in the long term. It must be the first UK regional route outside of London to start on B77W? Everywhere else would've been A332. It's a lot of seats to fill for a new route so yes it probably was an easy target, but I'm sure the demand is there, just give it a chance. The CAA stats will be interesting to see...

[SWBKCB]

I'm aware of that, but if it's no reflection on passenger numbers there must be another reason as presumably if you're making reductions the first thing you would look at is the lowest contributors.

Also, I thought Ramadan was the quiet time (which is why DXB do their runway work then).

And EK haven't used the A332 to the UK for a long time...

[canberra97]

I'm aware of that, but if it's no reflection on passenger numbers there must be another reason as presumably if you're making reductions the first thing you would look at is the lowest contributors.

Also, I thought Ramadan was the quiet time (which is why DXB do their runway work then).

And EK haven't used the A332 to the UK for a long time...

And that's because there are no remaining A332 in the Emirates fleet, the last one being withdrawn several years ago.

[GoEDI]

I'm aware of that, but if it's no reflection on passenger numbers there must be another reason as presumably if you're making reductions the first thing you would look at is the lowest contributors.

Also, I thought Ramadan was the quiet time (which is why DXB do their runway work then).

And EK haven't used the A332 to the UK for a long time...

I don't think anyone is trying to say that, the way I read it the poster was being sarcastic... I'm certainly not anyway. If they have had to shave capacity for whatever reason, be it pilot shortages or not, then they will have chosen these routes based on a number of things, passenger numbers will be just one. I wouldn't have expected this route to be rammed to the gunnels every day during November on a B77W in what will be only it's second month of operation anyway. However, note it's still daily for peak winter travel time during mid Dec-mid Jan. I just don't think it's that big a deal, the viability of the route is not in doubt before it has even started just because they've dropped 2 flights a week at some of the quietest travel months of the year for UK air travel.

Ramadan is the quietest time, but there are already reductions in place due to the runway works then anyway. Nov and Feb are probably the quietest months outside of Ramadan based on CAA stats for the UK-DXB routes ie GLA-DXB drops off by around 7k a month compared to peak times.

I know, that is because they have long since left the fleet. Which was kind of my point... EK do not have any smaller aircraft that may have been more appropriate to launch with, at least not until the B781s arrive. So whereas all other UK regional routes have been able to grow into the B77W having started on A332, they no longer have that luxury with EDI. I'm sure EDI will develop just fine in the years to come though, just like the other routes have done...

[CabinCrewe]

Interesting, despite other reductions, to see EK expansion including various European routes. Curious in times of pilot shortage.
Presumably also the new EY BCN service is a direct replacement for the dropped (last flight today) EDI service?

Dubai – Amsterdam eff 01DEC18
Increase from 14 to 19 /wk from 07JAN19
Dubai - Prague 1 to 2 daily now First Class
Dubai - Hamburg A380 replaces 773
Dubai – Moscow Domodedovo eff 25OCT18 Increase from 2 to 3 daily
Dubai – Stockholm Arlanda eff 01DEC18 Increase from 1 to 2 daily, 3-class 777-300ER
Dubai - Ryiadh increase to 4 daily
Dubai - Toronto Pearson increase from 3 to 5 weekly eff 31AUG18
Dubai - Luanda increases from 5 /wk to daily

[GoEDI]

The PRG route isn't being increased, it is listed as being reduced from 2 to 1 daily? The reductions elsewhere may be what is allowing any increases to be made if the overall system wide capacity isn't actually changing much?

Anyway, I don't think it needs over analysed at this stage. The adjustments have been made, it'll be back to daily from April (runway works aside), and the CAA stats will reveal the route's popularity in time. It's still an increase in the overall DXB-Scotland capacity which I think is how EK will be viewing it given the proximity of the airports.

[Plane mad 134]

Some celebration today as Emirates inaugral flight to Dubai starts.

[CabinCrewe]

198 passengers came off a 354 seater model 773 A6-EGC inbound DXB-EDI
That would be a nice flight if some additional razzmetaz for launch.

[ld0595]

Hainan reducing winter schedule further from 3 to 2 weekly between 28 October and 30 March according to Routesonline.

[inOban]

As part of the Ryanair cutbacks, Weeze and Baden-baden stop for the winter, and Hahn permanently. Eindhoven survives.

[CabinCrewe]

Hainan reducing winter schedule further from 3 to 2 weekly between 28 October and 30 March according to Routesonline.
Ooft! A lot of chopping and changing with frequencies and aircraft types can never be a good sign winter or not. Presumably customers having to be cancelled/rebooked which would be off putting.
Doubt even a direct routing could boost this service.

[GoEDI]

As part of the Ryanair cutbacks, Weeze and Baden-baden stop for the winter, and Hahn permanently. Eindhoven survives.

NRN may be a recent change not sure, but FKB has never been available for W18/19 and HHN has been summer only for some time now. It normally goes on sale at a later date to most EDI routes as it is operated by a HHN based aircraft.

EIN has actually been taken off sale for S19, remains to be seen whether it is just a reshuffle or it is being cut.

[inOban]

I thought that at least some of these were available when I checked last week, but I may be wrong.

[Homo Simpson]

According to my Icelandic friends WOW are to discontinue the Edinburgh flights.
Just passing on what I was told.

[edi_local]

According to my Icelandic friends WOW are to discontinue the Edinburgh flights.
Just passing on what I was told.

Think it's only for winter (which I thought was a good time to visit Iceland and was popular for northern lights tourism etc). If they've dropped it totally then that's a shame.

[inOban]

During the winter Easyjet throw capacity at the route 5/wk. Only 2/wk in summer. And since much of the WOW target market is heading to North America, hardly surprising that they are cutting back. Aren't there also questions about WOW finances?

[Homo Simpson]

I believe they are not in the best shape financially.
Winter is becoming a very popular time of year to visit Iceland.

[Plane mad 134]

This is becoming a mess losing so many routes in a short time if frequency decreases if true, hopefully Easyjet and Ryanair pick up some more routes would also be nice to get another 2nd based Tui Aircraft :)

[inOban]

I believe they are not in the best shape financially.
Winter is becoming a very popular time of year to visit Iceland.

I thought that much of winter traffic is locals escaping for some daylight and shopping

[inOban]

If you try to book, there are no flights after November 5.

[Plane mad 134]

Looks like a glitch but Loganair starting new route to Fair Isle from next summer 2x weekly on Monday and Friday, I thought the Saab340 was too big for Fair Isle?

[awwdabaaby]

Looks like a glitch but Loganair starting new route to Fair Isle from next summer 2x weekly on Monday and Friday, I thought the Saab340 was too big for Fair Isle?

it's not direct, connection with Kirkwall

[Plane mad 134]

Ok thanks, I also heard Delta could be announcing Boston soon on B767 aircraft, I hope it's true as it would help cover up the Norwegian loss.

[VickersVicount]

Would be surprised to see that. Esp as Lisbon only got a seasonal 757. The US market couldnt sustain additional routes with Norwegian as we've seen even with budget prices so flooding it again on a mainline legacy widebody makes no sense.

[OltonPete]

Ok thanks, I also heard Delta could be announcing Boston soon on B767 aircraft, I hope it's true as it would help cover up the Norwegian loss.

Seriously a 763!

I could understand a 757 operating end of May to the end of September.

Also the Lisbon - Boston has come at the expense of Lisbon - Atlanta although I would have thought EDI-JFK is safe with Norwegian ending SWF.

Pete

[Flightrider]

I'm not sure about the aircraft (757 or 767) but I don't think DL on EDI-BOS is ridiculous. I'd heard the same rumour last week.

[CabinCrewe]

With the ill-fated 767 DL attempts to ATL, I wonder why they never entertained BOS then. The connection profile at BOS is not hugely different now and way less obviously than their ATL stronghold.

[mullac30]

A 763 would make sense as DL are pretty stretched for TATL 752s, and they could just run the route at a less than daily frequency.

[ld0595]

Perhaps a 767 could be reinstated for the JFK route given that nonstop capacity to NYC will a little lower than previous years. (Norwegian leaving, AA moving to PHL and UA down to 1 EWR rotation.) That could free up a 757 for BOS.

[inOban]

I thought that the PHL flight was moving to EDI from GLA, rather from the EDI to JFK

[sinbad73]

I thought that the PHL flight was moving to EDI from GLA, rather from the EDI to JFK

Both EDI-JFK and GLA-PHL are being dropped in favour of EDI-PHL.

[Plane mad 134]

Does anyone know the full Ryanair timetable as they are adding new routes base by base.

[inOban]

We know that Vigo is being dropped from the end of this month - all Vigo routes are stopping.

[Breathe]

The BrewDog bar is going to open in November.

http://448f59f74df57015bbb8-a9447b7dfa4ae38e337b359963d557c4.r88.cf3.rackcdn.com/12117%20-%20Brewdog%20Blueprint%20Brief%20v7%20-%20Interactive%202.pdf