Belfast International-2

[A320.b744]

In the past 2 years BFS has gained 2 new airlines operating 17 routes, adding over 1.1 million seats for sale from the airport. Plus, the airport has seen considerable expansion from easyJet (4 new routes) and Jet2 (9 new routes). Overall, the airport has added net 1.5 million seats for sale in just 2 years - that's a 27% increase in capacity which is remarkable.

Passenger numbers for the airport also show a shift towards international passengers. 2017 alone saw a 31% increase in international passenger numbers, many of whom are tourists to the region.

[mart901]

Yes I agree with you but not everyone would for various reasons including lack of will to bother. Also although fares are displayed as one way try booking them one way and they often come out higher, as I have proven today when booking BFS-STN, it landed up despite FR's low one way fares because of timings they weren't suitable and it landed up £5 each cheaper with EZY, and this might well affect them with MAN, additionally EZY allow you to combine say LPL and MAN as a return and this often makes it cheaper, many times I've used LTN/STN and I know people who use EDI/GLA for instance. FR will no doubt always have the upper hand with pricing I'm sure.

[True Blue]

Wroclaw off sale for the winter at the moment. I checked Stansted, Manchester and Milan on a Wednesday at the start of November, 3 departures all around 6.30 ish.

[BFS BHD]

Wroclaw times/dates are there just not appearing on the month list. If you select a date in October and go across to November dates they should be there.

[BFS BHD]

New route to Venice with EasyJet on sale.

2 Weekly from 22nd June.

[True Blue]

So all the existing Ryanair routes out of Belfast seem to be going on sale for winter 18 at the moment with first departures needing 3 aircraft.

[mart901]

BFS BHD

As predicted. Marvellous news.

[True Blue]

If Ryanair go 2 daily to Man, that would be up to 5 daily on some days if Ezy keep their current frequency. What % of pax need to move from Bhd to Bfs before Flybe start to reduce frequency and become less competitive? Probably not that much.

[mart901]

The MAN route is fairly evenly split between BHD/BFS. Any pax flying FR will be a mixture of BE and EZY plus pax they attract themselves through really low fares so yes the likelihood is BHD will see a decline, neither EZY or BE will drop fares as low as FR, but its worth remembering £12.99 is not a sustainable price point long term and eventually such fares will fizzle out, either because they grow enough business or because they cut the route or reduce frequency, but one thing is certain, those fares are not sustainable, FR can easily make money elsewhere and their pockets are not everlasting despite the impression they give. It surprises me they've not tackled LPL where they are naturally stronger and had huge success numbers wise with last time around. Just begs the question why they didn't move to BFS if the runway length was such an issue, and I'd consider it possible they will again exit the NI aviation scene if they can't make money.

[A320.b744]

Below is the press release for easyJet's new route to Venice. It's going to be operated year-round, which is great news. This is a second attempt for easyJet on this route, having operated it between 2007-2008, so hopefully this time they have more success.

https://www.belfastairport.com/blog-news/2018/february/bella-italia-new-easyjet-route-to-venice

The addition of Venice means that for the first time ever, easyJet will offer more than 1 million international seats from Belfast, and almost 5 million seats in total.

Overall, 6.98 million seats are being offered from BFS in 2018, including almost 1.1 million from Ryanair and over 0.5 million from Jet2.com.

[BFS BHD]

At Belfast:
– 1 new route to Manchester (2 daily)
– The return of winter flights to London (Stansted, 3 daily)
– 13 routes in total
– 955,000 customers p.a.
– 715* on-site jobs

https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-launches-northern-ireland-winter-18-schedule/

[PPRuNeUser0176]

So no 3rd aircraft then?

[BFS BHD]

Current schedules show three aircraft needed in the mornings.
One for Stansted, one for Manchester and one for a European routes.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Would expect changes then, there is no way they would of not announce 3rd aircraft with the launch press.

[BFS BHD]

Looks like Topflight is using Ernest Airlines instead of Meridiana this year for the Verona flights.

Arrives 13:25 and departs 14:05.

TUI still shows Meridiana flying for them.

[BFS BHD]

Thomas Cook is adding Tunisia for Summer 2019. All flights should be bookable tomorrow.

Also new for next year are additional regional flights and packages. These include new flights from Cardiff and Belfast to Tunisia and the extension of Manchester to Marrakech flights.
http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/298750/thomas-cook-puts-jamaica-back-on-sale-for-2019

[panpanpanpan]

Belfast International Airport role in DUP event 'raises questions' - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43188980)

Just back from a few travels and this caught my eye, I'm sure I have seen another article linking Mr Keddie to a NI tourist board post.

Don't see much fuss being made of this by pruners yet a few individuals were almost apoplectic when a certain Harbour airport was allegedly too close to some politicians and Mr A was involved in the tourist board? :roll eyes:

Double standards anyone? Maybe they have missed the Outrage Bus this time round? Never mind I'm sure there'll be another one soon!

[A320.b744]

BFS handled 364,465 passengers in January 2018, a 3.9% decrease on 2017. This is almost exclusively due to a 30,000 drop in passengers using BFS-LGW following Ryanair's exit from the route.

Domestic Routes;

Half of domestic routes experienced a fall in passengers in January; EDI (-3%), GLA (-5%), LGW (-38%), LPL (-4%), MAN (-4%).

The other half saw an increase in passenger numbers; BHX (+1%), BRS (+1%), LTN (+16%), NCL (+4%), STN (+16%)

International Routes;

January was a very good month for international passenger numbers, with several routes exhibiting double-digit growth.

SXF saw the largest fall in passenger numbers (-23%), though this is due to Ryanair reducing the frequency from x3 to x2 weekly. This move has seen the load factor on the route jump 10% to 85%.

Ski travellers to the Alps opted for GVA (+5%) over LYS (-12%), but ski passenger numbers increased overall.

There was impressive growth on sun routes; ACE (+15%), AGP (+6%), ALC (+8%), FAO (+41%), TFS (+7%).

Eastern European routes in general did well in January. Wizz Air saw a 3% increase in passengers to VNO, representing a 90% load factor. Ryanair also saw growth on their routes; GDN (+22%), WMI (+4%), WRO (+8%). KRK on the other hand saw a 5% drop in passenger numbers despite Wizz Air cancelling their route to nearby KTW. Despite this, the route still had an average load factor of 93% between easyJet and Ryanair.

easyJet saw impressive growth on their route to AMS (+17%), and Ryanair saw a 6% increase in passenger numbers to BGY. In addition, Ryanair's new route to MLA saw 2,455 passengers in January, which gives a 72% load factor.

Norwegian carried 2,317 passengers on BFS-SWF, averaging 129 passengers and a 68% load factor (10% lower than EDI-SWF). Interestingly, when United operated BFS-EWR, they had an average January load factor of 69% (116 pax).

[BFS BHD]

More less the same as Summer 2018 but the Wednesday Palma flight is replaced by the new route to Enfidha which starts 1st May 2019.

Departure time is 04:50 and arrives back at 13:10.

[GAZMO]

Don't know if this has been previously posted

https://www.thecaterer.com/articles/522180/ssp-opens-sip-stone-at-belfast-international-airport

[BFS Dude]

I was looking on ryanair app and notice all the morning european routes have moved to a 09:30 departure. Looks like another new route may be added to UK... Maybe LBA?

[A320.b744]

I was looking on ryanair app and notice all the morning european routes have moved to a 09:30 departure. Looks like another new route may be added to UK... Maybe LBA?


Wouldn't this allow for the second daily BFS-MAN flight to be operated without having to base a third aircraft?

[GAZMO]

Would tend to agree. MAN flight arrives back into BFS at 9.05 for 9.30 departure to European destination

Alas maybe no third aircraft

[A320.b744]

I've looked at the schedules and I can confirm that the new schedule means there is no need for a third aircraft.


Aircraft 1 operates the first two STN flights, and then ALC/AGP.
Aircraft 2 operates MAN, then BGY/SXF/WRO, followed by the second MAN flight and the third STN flight.

[BFS Dude]

I've looked at the schedules and I can confirm that the new schedule means there is no need for a third aircraft.


Aircraft 1 operates the first two STN flights, and then ALC/AGP.
Aircraft 2 operates MAN, then BGY/SXF/WRO, followed by the second MAN flight and the third STN flight.

Ahh thanks for the information.

[BFS BHD]

At Gatwick:

– 5 routes: Alicante (daily), Belfast (3 daily), Cork (daily), Dublin (7 daily) & Shannon (daily)

– 3m customers p.a.

– 975* on-site jobs

Gatwick returning or a mistake?

[GAZMO]

Interesting bringing back LGW!!

https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-launches-london-winter-18-schedule/

[A320.b744]

Gatwick returning or a mistake?

BFS isn't bookable from LGW during W18, but the other four destinations are, so I think it's a mistake. Plus, when Ryanair launched their winter schedule from BFS a few weeks ago, they made a point of noting that London flights would just be to STN. The London press release also doesn't state that BFS is returning as a destination from LGW but did so about the return of EDI from STN which was also cancelled for W17. If LGW was to return however, it would require a third based aircraft at BFS given that LGW isn't a Ryanair base.

[GAZMO]

hmm.....when they launched their Northern Ireland flights recently it was 5 weekly LDY to GLA and within a couple of weeks the route was cancelled and EDI appeared.....so who knows!!

[BFS BHD]

https://nitravelnews.com/news/norwegian-could-solve-canadian-service-headache-for-belfast/

[Alteagod]

If ifs and buts where pots and pans we'd all be tinkers. Im reading but just hearing white noise re Canada and Norwegian from Belfast. Me thinks from DUB more likely

[NWSRG]

If ifs and buts where pots and pans we'd all be tinkers. Im reading but just hearing white noise re Canada and Norwegian from Belfast. Me thinks from DUB more likely

Why not both? The Max will do Toronto as well as it will do New York, so no need to fill a 787...and the market is certainly there.

[EIFFS]

It will do Toronto but it will be going to Hamilton just down the road where the fee’s will be less and no doubt Norwegian will add a shuttle bus to downtown just have they have done at Stewart.

The next batch of MAX deliveries start in May.

Edinburgh will likely miss out unless the SNP deliver on their promise to slash APD, no such issues in DUB and BFS is APD exempt for long haul routes.

[SealinkBF]

I'm amazed that there hasn't been a direct service to Canada for so long.
I used to be a travel agent and I remember Ulster Maple Leaf, Chieftain Tours and later Globespan filling planes all summer!

[BFS BHD]

Faro being added again for Summer 2018. Twice weekly from 2nd June to 18th August. Looks like BFS based aircraft doing the flights.

[GAZMO]

Great to see, but why leave it so late? Surely January would have been a better time to launch / promote FAO

Looks like finishing 28th August?

They are cancelling the late STN service on Saturdays to accommodate FAO and Tuesday was previously the Berlin flight

[BFS BHD]

Wonder will the evening Stansted flight be added back but operated by Stansted based aircraft?

[BFS BHD]

I see TUI Summer 2019 schedules will be released on 5th April.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Turkey return for TUI at BFS.

[A320.b744]

Wonder will the evening Stansted flight be added back but operated by Stansted based aircraft?

I doubt it. Ryanair's Saturday night STN flight is one of their least busy flights given that very few business and leisure passengers wish to travel on a domestic route at that time. The flight is only cancelled for 3 months, which is peak summer season, meaning all of Ryanair's aircraft are operating with a full schedule. It doesn't make business sense to potentially forgo more lucrative leisure routes from STN than to operate BFS-STN x1 weekly using a STN based aircraft.

Cutting back on domestic routes in favour of leisure routes is very common during peak summer season, with both easyJet and Flybe doing it across their Belfast networks.

I see TUI Summer 2019 schedules will be released on 5th April.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Turkey return for TUI at BFS.

TUI only base one aircraft at BFS during the summer season, and it has a full schedule. If TUI were to add a new route from BFS, they would have to a) base a second aircraft (very unlikely) or b) reduce frequencies on existing routes.

[BFS BHD]

TUI only base one aircraft at BFS during the summer season, and it has a full schedule. If TUI were to add a new route from BFS, they would have to a) base a second aircraft (very unlikely) or b) reduce frequencies on existing routes.

Maybe replace Las Palmas or stop the Tuesday flights to Reus and the Tuesday night Palma.

[A320.b744]

Maybe replace Las Palmas or stop the Tuesday flights to Reus and the Tuesday night Palma.

It all depends on what routes make TUI the most money from BFS

[Cozy F]

Good to see the Ryanair Faro back on sale, especially with Aer Lingus cutting back from Belfast.

Be interesting to see what TUI programme for 2019. Their current BFS operation is very Spain biased with multiple frequencies on Palma and Reus. The return of Dalaman is certainly a possibility, perhaps something less obvious like Dubrovnik, or Pula. Or what about a Hurghada or even a Cape Verde? Sharm worked well from Belfast before the general problem there, helped enormously by incurring no APD from Belfast. Both Hurghada and Cape Verde would also qualify for Zero APD, based on range.

[Alteagod]

And something different from the norm

[SecondDog]

Have always fancied Cape Verde. Northern Ireland folk though.....

[A320.b744]

Have always fancied Cape Verde. Northern Ireland folk though.....

The problem with Cape Verde is that a single round trip takes up a full day. Currently TUI can fly one round trip to the Canaries/Greece and up to two round trips to the Balearics/Spain in one day. TUI would have to be making a fortune on a potential Cape Verde route in order to sacrifice three flights for just one.

[Alteagod]

Was SSH in Egypt not near a full day plus xtra crew carried as well from Belfast. Did it not do an early PMI beforehand

[A320.b744]

Was SSH in Egypt not near a full day plus xtra crew carried as well from Belfast. Did it not do an early PMI beforehand

TUI base only one aircraft at BFS during the summer season, and is the airline's only seasonal base. TUI's sole aircraft has a full schedule, meaning in order to add Cape Verde or Egypt, other routes will need to be axed.

It is possible to operate both PMI and Cape Verde within in a 24 hour period, but the logistics of doing so from BFS make it an unattractive option.

TUI's morning departures to Spain leave BFS between 05:30-06:00. That means that the latest an aircraft returning from Cape Verde can arrive at BFS is 04:30-05:00. This requires the previous morning's departure to Spain to leave before 05:00, which on some days forces the evening before's flight to be shifted further forward and so on. Given that the vast majority of TUI's routes from BFS are operated by other airlines, passengers would choose their more convenient departure times over an extremely early TUI departure.

In addition, TUI's afternoon departures are to destinations only served x1 weekly, except for on a Tuesday, when a second weekly flight to REU and fourth weekly flight to PMI operate instead. Logic would dictate that TUI would choose Tuesday to operate a potential route to Cape Verde, as they wouldn't want to completely axe one of their destinations from BFS. So TUI would replace x2 flights to Spain with x1 flight to Cape Verde. This means that TUI would offer 6,803 fewer seats from BFS each year, which is 6.25% of the total available seats offered from BFS in 2018. TUI would consequently make less money from BFS, given the average price spent per person on a trip to Cape Verde does not exceed that of a trip to REU and a trip to PMI.

So, by operating a route to Cape Verde from BFS;

-TUI offer fewer seats from BFS and makes less money from their base.
-Fewer passengers fly to Spain with TUI because of unattractive flight times, meaning the airline makes even less money.

While it would be great to see TUI offering more destinations from BFS, the fact that BFS is TUI's sole seasonal base, and is operated by a Sunwing aircraft, makes it clear that TUI are not interested in the NI market. A permanent base, or at least a second aircraft, would make destinations such as Cape Verde a more feasible option, but by the looks of things, what BFS has currently got is as good as it gets from TUI.

[SecondDog]

TUI base only one aircraft at BFS during the summer season, and is the airline's only seasonal base. TUI's sole aircraft has a full schedule, meaning in order to add Cape Verde or Egypt, other routes will need to be axed.

It is possible to operate both PMI and Cape Verde within in a 24 hour period, but the logistics of doing so from BFS make it an unattractive option.

TUI's morning departures to Spain leave BFS between 05:30-06:00. That means that the latest an aircraft returning from Cape Verde can arrive at BFS is 04:30-05:00. This requires the previous morning's departure to Spain to leave before 05:00, which on some days forces the evening before's flight to be shifted further forward and so on. Given that the vast majority of TUI's routes from BFS are operated by other airlines, passengers would choose their more convenient departure times over an extremely early TUI departure.

In addition, TUI's afternoon departures are to destinations only served x1 weekly, except for on a Tuesday, when a second weekly flight to REU and fourth weekly flight to PMI operate instead. Logic would dictate that TUI would choose Tuesday to operate a potential route to Cape Verde, as they wouldn't want to completely axe one of their destinations from BFS. So TUI would replace x2 flights to Spain with x1 flight to Cape Verde. This means that TUI would offer 6,803 fewer seats from BFS each year, which is 6.25% of the total available seats offered from BFS in 2018. TUI would consequently make less money from BFS, given the average price spent per person on a trip to Cape Verde does not exceed that of a trip to REU and a trip to PMI.

So, by operating a route to Cape Verde from BFS;

-TUI offer fewer seats from BFS and makes less money from their base.
-Fewer passengers fly to Spain with TUI because of unattractive flight times, meaning the airline makes even less money.

While it would be great to see TUI offering more destinations from BFS, the fact that BFS is TUI's sole seasonal base, and is operated by a Sunwing aircraft, makes it clear that TUI are not interested in the NI market. A permanent base, or at least a second aircraft, would make destinations such as Cape Verde a more feasible option, but by the looks of things, what BFS has currently got is as good as it gets from TUI.

Aye that about sums it up. Not to say I wanted to fly with Tui mind you, just that Cape Verde would be cool.

[SWBKCB]

While it would be great to see TUI offering more destinations from BFS, the fact that BFS is TUI's sole seasonal base, and is operated by a Sunwing aircraft, makes it clear that TUI are not interested in the NI market. A permanent base, or at least a second aircraft, would make destinations such as Cape Verde a more feasible option, but by the looks of things, what BFS has currently got is as good as it gets from TUI.

Aren't Norwich and Leeds seasonal bases?

If TUI weren't interested in NI, they wouldn't be there - especially not with a leased in a/c!

How would a permanent base make it more feasible - as you've just pointed out, it's to do with a/c availability.

[irishlad06]

Cape Verde cannot be served from BFS on a B738 without a fuel stop.

It could be done with a B757 but this would be additional cost for positioning / night stopping crew.

Currently it’s not possible to do a uk to Cape Verde return with the same crew. A night stop is required so therefore even further increased costs.

[A320.b744]

Aren't Norwich and Leeds seasonal bases?

Both Norwich and Leeds/Bradford have TUI operated flights year-round. BFS is the only TUI base to have summer-only flights.

If TUI weren't interested in NI, they wouldn't be there - especially not with a leased in a/c!

TUI as a travel agency are interested in the NI market, as they sell package holidays and cruises with various different companies through their stores. TUI aren't as interested however in using their own hardware to transport these holidaymakers to their destinations. They much prefer to sell tickets on other airlines, including even Thomas Cook.

Leasing in an aircraft does not say 'long term commitment', it's another way of saying that NI holidaymakers aren't worth as much to TUI as other travellers, and won't mind travelling on an aircraft that isn't up to TUI's high standard. On the other hand, capital investment in their BFS base would tell NI holidaymakers that TUI are here to stay, and that the NI market matters to them.


How would a permanent base make it more feasible - as you've just pointed out, it's to do with a/c availability.

TUI have leased an aircraft for BFS summer operations for several years in a row, so the lack of an aircraft isn't a short-term issue.

During the winter season, TUI lease several aircraft out to Sunwing and other airlines, but despite that they still have a surplus. TUI prefer to keep spare aircraft grounded than to send one to BFS to operate flights to the Canaries etc. That doesn't seem like a long term commitment to the NI market. Compare that to Thomas Cook, who operate between 2-4 weekly flights to ACE/TFS during the winter season.

Furthermore, only 0.9% of seats offered across the TUI UK network are from BFS, and TUI only offer 1.6% of all of BFS' total seats in 2018 (108,864). That is a clear indication that TUI are not interested in the NI market. In addition, TUI haven't expanded their BFS operations of years; they've simply moved schedules about and replaced existing services with new ones.

Five years ago TUI operated 12 routes from BFS. TUI will operate 12 routes in 2018 as well, having axed three destinations since 2013 in favour of three different ones.

Other airlines have expanded their operations from BFS and have eaten into core TUI territory. This year, only one TUI route from BFS will be operated without facing direct competition.

[BFS Dude]

Is the Thomas Cook aircraft still going to be a leased aircraft for S18? If so any idea when it will be based from?

[El Bunto]

Leasing in an aircraft does not say 'long term commitment', it's another way of saying that NI holidaymakers aren't worth as much to TUI as other travellers Sorry, that's just nonsense. The seasonal cross-Atlantic exchange leasing between TUI and Sunwing is a sensible approach to managing the two airlines' respective peaks ( winter snowbirds to Florida, summer sunseekers to Med beaches ). Transat and ASL France do the same.

The 'value' of the NI holidaymakers is such that TUI see value in sustaining that leasing, rather than just focusing on the subset of services possible using the core 'blue' fleet.

[AerRyan]

Noteable that they also hire in a sunwing for Dublin, yet they announced long haul from Dublin a few years ago. I assume they've no interest in the DUB market also?

[It's only Me]

Morning

The Thomas Cook aircraft will continue to be an in-house A321 operated by BFS crew.

Me

[vrb03kt]

Perhaps the appearance of the large TUI 737 model outside the BFS terminal is a sign of an increased commitment to the NI market?

[Husky One]

Or perhaps it’s just ironic given that Tui only ever use a Sunwing subcharter to cover their BFS work ��

[SWBKCB]

Sounds like somebody hasn't got over the name change yet - personally I haven't forgiven them changing to the light blue scheme.

How long have Britannia/Thomson/TUI been operating out of BFS?

[BFS BHD]

Now starting 13th March 2019 instead of 1st May 2019. :)

[GAZMO]

Anyone know why EI037 diverted to BFS tonight landing at 9.30pm?

[buzz_hornet]

Anyone know why EI037 diverted to BFS tonight landing at 9.30pm?

Too windy for it at bhd

[Brakefan2]

Too windy for it at bhd

It’s these Dublin pilots, They don’t fancy BHD with a wee bit of wind coming off the Holywood hills. Imagine! And with 1800 ft of runway. What’s not to like! Meat and drink to the old Belfast based boys!
Interestingly EI37 landed on the cross runway 17/35 last night. Great for BFS as they can handle wind from any direction.

[BFS BHD]

Antalya (22nd April) and Dalaman (11th April) starting a few weeks earlier next year.

Wonder will we see Bodrum added again soon? Maybe Freebird, Onur Air etc may start flying for TCX again from BFS to Turkey

[SecondDog]

I have a feeling there is something big in the air (pun very much intended) but I'll be goshdarned if I can get it out of anyone I know who works there. Anyone got any ideas??

[SealinkBF]

Qatar.

Have you seen the size of the airports they are now flying from?

[SecondDog]

Qatar.

Have you seen the size of the airports they are now flying from?

Nope. Well, that would be interesting at least.

[emma1]

It’s these Dublin pilots, They don’t fancy BHD with a wee bit of wind coming off the Holywood hills. Imagine! And with 1800 ft of runway. What’s not to like! Meat and drink to the old Belfast based boys!
Interestingly EI37 landed on the cross runway 17/35 last night. Great for BFS as they can handle wind from any direction.

Did it take 60 mins to open runway 17

[Alteagod]

Could it be FR operating LGW-BHD-LGW from W18?

[airtrumpone]

Cape Verde cannot be served from BFS on a B738 without a fuel stop.

It could be done with a B757 but this would be additional cost for positioning / night stopping crew.

Currently it’s not possible to do a uk to Cape Verde return with the same crew. A night stop is required so therefore even further increased costs.

The great circle distance between BVC & BFS is 2435nm whilst BFS & SWF is 2726nm so a 738Max should be able to do that, a crew on an E1 duty (1 hour planned extension) can do 14 hours on a 2 sector day, 1 hour report 45 minute turnaround leaves 12:15 flying time, tight but doable I would have thought.

[All names taken]

Re Cape Verde
More to the point why would people want to go there?
Think flies - billions of them. Not a great place for a holiday to be honest.
It's a place where people will go once and be begging for the comforts of Spain thereafter.
Just because a place 'sounds' good doesn't mean it is.

[A320.b744]

CAA 2017 stats have been released, and here are the most important points;

- BFS handled 5,836,552 passengers (+13.3%)
- BFS handled 58,152 aircraft movements (+5.4%)
- BFS handled 12,308 tonnes of cargo (+62%)

Passenger numbers have increased by 32.7% since 2015, which is a remarkable achievement.

2017 was a record breaker for both annual passenger numbers and annual aircraft movements.

My provisional 2017 route analysis figures from February has been confirmed as correct, so I'll repost it here with the rest of the statistics.

Below I've calculated the total passenger numbers based on CAA Jan-Dec stats.

Domestic Routes;

Modest growth on most routes, decrease for both BHX and GLA.

1. Gatwick - 982,790 (+14.4%)
2. Liverpool - 490,613 (+5.4%)
3. Stansted - 376,429 (+3.4%)
4. Luton - 340,034 (+9.5%)
5. Edinburgh - 284,833 (+3.8%)
6. Manchester - 265,643 (+4.9%)
7. Bristol - 261,730 (+4.9%)
8. *Glasgow - 261,020 (-7.6%)
9. Newcastle - 259,776 (+3.7%)
10. *Birmingham - 224,393 (-1.4%)
11. Jersey - 20,783 (+4.3%)

International Routes;

First time in 10 years that an international route has exceeded 200,000 pax, and the first time ever that two routes have exceeded 200,000.

Sun routes, in particular Iberian routes, performed exceptionally well. Ski routes on the other hand performed very poorly.

1. Alicante - 227,397 (+48.0%)
2. Malaga - 209,583 (+60.8%)
3. Palma - 183,383 (+24.4%)
4. Faro - 164,738 (+32.4%)
5. Tenerife - 126,232 (+39.5%)
6. Lanzarote - 123,470 (+13.5%)
7. Amsterdam - 122,369 (+0.3%)
8. Krakow - 99,585 (+82.5%)
9. Paris CDG - 76,399 (+0.0%)
10. Reus - 60,489 (+15.3%)
11. Barcelona - 55,279 (+55.8%)
12. Gran Canaria - 45,879 (+148.0%)
13. Ibiza - 45,362 (+59.6%)
14. Berlin SXF - 44,683 (+193.8%)
15. Vilnius - 34,559 (+15.6%)
16. Gdansk - 34,163 (+582.7%)
17. Warsaw - 33,732 (+485.5%)
18. Wroclaw - 32,386 (+549.5%)
19. Bergamo - 31,033 (+221.8%)
20. Girona - 28,740 (NEW)
21. *Geneva - 20,063 (-13.8%)
22. *Katowice - 19,259 (-30.8%)
23. Burgas - 18,799 (+17.5%)
24. *Nice - 18,593 (-3.2%)
25. *Larnaca - 18,096 (-5.6%)
26. Menorca - 17,725 (+54.3%)
27. Dubrovnik - 17,049 (+191%)
28. Newburgh - 16,676 (NEW)
29. *Reykjavik - 15,515 (-43.9%)
30. Split - 12,874 (+116.3%)
31. Orlando - 9,176 (+66.6%)
32. Bordeaux - 8,888 (+20.8%)
33. *Dalaman - 8,701 (-67.4%)
34. Corfu - 7,363 (+2.4%)
35. Rhodes - 6,666 (+0.00%)
36. Providence - 6,518 (NEW)
37. Zante - 6,202 (+0.4%)
38. *Verona - 5,755 (-8.1%)
39. Plovdiv - 5,128 (+46.8%)
40. Malta - 4,684 (NEW)
41. *Lyon - 4,589 (-15.5%)
42. *Newark - 2,924 (-96.3%)
43. Cancun - 2,504 (+625.8%)
44. Rovaniemi - 1,754 (+3.1%)
45. Las Vegas - 631 (NEW)
46. Varadero - 567 (+21.4%)
47. *Salzburg - 411 (-86.9%)

[richardnei]

If Ryanair hadn't cancelled the BFSLGW.We could possibly have broke the 6 Million mark in 2017.


CAA 2017 stats have been released, and here are the most important points;

- BFS handled 5,836,552 passengers (+13.3%)
- BFS handled 58,152 aircraft movements (+5.4%)
- BFS handled 12,308 tonnes of cargo (+62%)

Passenger numbers have increased by 32.7% since 2015, which is a remarkable achievement.

2017 was a record breaker for both annual passenger numbers and annual aircraft movements.

My provisional 2017 route analysis figures from February has been confirmed as correct, so I'll repost it here with the rest of the statistics.

[DC9_10]

Could it be FR operating LGW-BHD-LGW from W18?.

Wishful thinking I would suggest.

[True Blue]

Could it be FR operating LGW-BHD-LGW from W18?

Considering the comment was about something maybe brewing at Bfs, why suddenly come out with this, a complete non-idea?

[DC9_10]

Exactly TB, I was referring to someone called Alteagods previous post.

[EI-BUD]

I think given the very competitive environment that exists between the Belfast Airports it is not inconceivable that Ryanair may seek to lever its position. They now have a number of 738's with short field capability so operating into and out of BHD could certainly be attractive. However, the largest challenge would be the 2130 closure time. I wouldn't rule anything out.

[mart901]

I think given the very competitive environment that exists between the Belfast Airports it is not inconceivable that Ryanair may seek to lever its position. They now have a number of 738's with short field capability so operating into and out of BHD could certainly be attractive. However, the largest challenge would be the 2130 closure time. I wouldn't rule anything out.

FR said they would possibly fly to both but as with most things they say, use a kilo bag of salt with it. In reality the post about LGW-BFS/BHD is a typo by someone in FR marketing, a reflection of a company getting so big they loose the run of themselves at times. FR handed the slots back to IAG.

[GAZMO]

If anything brewing at BFS maybe Norwegian to Toronto!

[BFS Dude]

I have a feeling there is something big in the air (pun very much intended) but I'll be goshdarned if I can get it out of anyone I know who works there. Anyone got any ideas??

Anyone got any updates on this? Or when it may be announced?

Maybe another Transatlantic airline? Didn't BFS management say they where close to getting another airline to US when Norwegian was announced?

[owenc]

Well, let's hope so. We all know that Norweigan is not a permanent venture.

[BFS Dude]

Belfast Airport deploys Veovo?s management system - Airport Technology (http://www.airport-technology.com/news/belfast-airport-deploys-veovos-airport-management-system/)

[BFS BHD]

First Ryanair service to Manchester starts tomorrow. Outbound service seems to be sold out. Seats left on the inbound back from Manchester but.

[KNT544]

Very easy to sell the seats. The key is to also make money. Having a couple of pilots to fly would be great too :)

[owenc]

Virgin Atlantic starting up today. 28 flights for the season, circa 25,000 seats.

I wonder, will they increase it for next year?

[A320.b744]

Virgin Atlantic starting up today. 28 flights for the season, circa 25,000 seats.

I wonder, will they increase it for next year?

25,480 seats to be exact. It all depends on how successful the route is. This is the first year that VS are operating the route for the full summer season, so any increases next year will depend on the success of these new off-peak flights. I imagine that next year will see the x2 weekly peak period extended by a few weeks, but perhaps it could be extended throughout most of the summer season.

It should also be noted that from next year VS will be starting to replace their B744s with the A350-1000. The A350 has 100-150 fewer seats than the B744, meaning in order to keep current capacity on the route, the number of flights would need to increase from 28 to about 40. I suspect that the first A350s will be used exclusively from LGW, and that BFS won't see the A350 for a few more years, but soon enough BFS could be seeing up to x4 weekly VS flights to Orlando.

[MaverickPrime]

Maybe they would make more profit on the 350 with the lower seat cost per mile?

[BFS BHD]

Nothing new for TUI for S19 announced today?

[owenc]

Thanks.

What is the maximum potential for the Northern Ireland route? Would Dublin cut into that?

Just hope we can make this niche work and not give it over to Dublin again.

[A320.b744]

Thanks.

What is the maximum potential for the Northern Ireland route? Would Dublin cut into that?

Just hope we can make this niche work and not give it over to Dublin again.


Orlando is an interesting destination. Compared with other transatlantic routes such as New York, almost all passengers are British holidaymakers, with a substantial number booking package holidays with Virgin Holidays, TUI, Thomas Cook and other companies. People are also more likely to travel from their local airport when flying to a leisure destination, and this is compounded by the fact that a large number of passengers are families with young children. Therefore, Aer Lingus would carry relatively fewer NI passengers on their DUB-MCO service than on their business-orientated transatlantic routes.

With regards to maximum potential for BFS-MCO, I believe that peak demand would be obtained if the route was served by Virgin Atlantic, TUI and Thomas Cook. During the peak summer season (June-August), I believe that there would be enough demand for daily flights - something along the lines of x3 weekly Virgin B744, x2 weekly TUI B788, x2 weekly Thomas Cook A332.Throughout the rest of the summer season, there would be demand for x4 weekly flights, and x1 weekly flight during the winter season.

This schedule is, of course, what I believe to be the absolute maximum potential for BFS-MCO, though I doubt that the airport will achieve such a schedule any time soon. This schedule would mean 148,340 seats would be offered between Belfast and Orlando, and based on average load factors, passenger numbers would be approximately 120,000 which, to compare, is slightly less than the 2017 annual passenger numbers between Glasgow and Orlando.

[SealinkBF]

Nothing new for TUI for S19 announced today?

I think the announcement today was quite vague, pointing to 5th April as the S19 launch date...

[A320.b744]

In February, BFS handled 382,676 passengers (-5%)

Domestic Routes;

There was impressive growth on the majority of domestic routes, though a couple saw a very modest decline. LGW is the exception, with 35,028 pax lost following Ryanair's cessation of the route.

BHX (+3%), BRS (+3%), EDI (-1%), GLA (-), LGW (-42%), LPL (-2%), LTN (+9%), MAN (+6%), NCL (-2%), STN (+10%)

With regards to LGW; 35,028 pax were lost, but total passenger numbers fell by just 18,820. Thus, BFS recorded an extra 16,208 passengers across the rest of the network.

International Routes;

Three new routes for February offer a mixed picture.

SZG 93% LF
MLA 88% LF
SWF 53% LF

Sun routes continued to grow in February, though we are starting to see a slow down in growth on the three most popular routes - AGP, ALC and FAO.

ACE (+10%), AGP(+7%), ALC (+3%), FAO (-), FUE (+55%), LPA (+10%), TFS (+10%)

Ski routes are a mixed picture; GVA (+20%), LYS (-23%)

It looks like skiers are moving away from Lyon and resorting back to Geneva. LYS passenger numbers have fallen throughout the winter season, and I would not be surprised if easyJet were to axe the route next winter.

There was steady growth in Western European cities, except for Berlin (reduced from x3 to x2 weekly).

AMS (+4%), BGY (+10%), CDG (-), KEF (+4%), SXF (-31%)

As usual, all Central/Eastern European routes saw growth in February.

GDN (+4%), KRK (+1%), VNO (+2%), WMI (+6%), WRO (+5%)

[owenc]

I was thinking more along the lines of Virgin Atlantic but a good read.

7 daily on VS, is that feasible?

[EI-BUD]

People are also more likely to travel from their local airport when flying to a leisure destination, and this is compounded by the fact that a large number of passengers are families with young children. Therefore, Aer Lingus would carry relatively fewer NI passengers on their DUB-MCO service than on their business-orientated transatlantic routes.[QUOTE]

A320, interesting comment, not sure that I follow or indeed concur...

[owenc]

It depends where you're going. If the journey is further than Florida or the East Coast, it would be more feasible to go from Dublin Airport.

The likes of SFO, IAH, are much easier to get to, than stopping off in EWR.

BFS was expensive with United, when it was in service.

[A320.b744]

People are also more likely to travel from their local airport when flying to a leisure destination, and this is compounded by the fact that a large number of passengers are families with young children. Therefore, Aer Lingus would carry relatively fewer NI passengers on their DUB-MCO service than on their business-orientated transatlantic routes.[QUOTE]

A320, interesting comment, not sure that I follow or indeed concur...

Let's look at two long haul destinations served from both BFS and DUB; New York and Orlando.

New York is a more business-orientated route than Orlando. Yes, there are leisure travellers flying to New York, and there are of course business travellers flying to Orlando, but one is much more likely to be a leisure traveller on a flight to Orlando than on a flight to New York.

So let's look at these leisure passengers flying to Orlando.

Orlando is the gateway to multiple theme parks, and can be considered as a family destination. Yes, couples, friends etc go to Orlando too, but the likelihood is that a flight to Orlando will have a bunch of young kids onboard.

Out of all groups of travellers, families with young children are the most likely to book a package holiday, given that it is the least stressful option, and is the option most likely to cater for the needs of children.

If a family goes into a travel agency in NI and are looking to go to Orlando, the likelihood is that they will book with Virgin Holidays and fly from BFS. Yes, there are other options with TUI, Thomas Cook etc with flights connecting at LGW etc, but for simplicity let's look solely at the choice between flying direct from BFS or DUB. It is highly unlikely that a NI family booking an Orlando package holiday would be routed via DUB.

There are of course people who book their flights and accommodation separately, and thus are free to choose to fly from any route they wish, but compared with other long haul routes such as to NYC, MCO will have a much smaller number of 'do-it-yourself' passengers.

In addition, leisure travellers are less likely to care about the number of weekly/daily flights, meaning the more frequent DUB-MCO service isn't as big a draw for a NI leisure traveller than the more frequent DUB-NYC service is for a NI business traveller.

Therefore, when one compares the likelihood that NI people fly from BFS vs DUB, given the demographics on board, it is more likely that people would choose to fly from BFS than from DUB to MCO, than if flying to NYC, i.e. there are relatively fewer NI passengers flying DUB-MCO than DUB-NYC.

There may of course be more NI people in gross terms flying DUB-MCO than DUB-NYC, but out of the potential pool of passengers, the likelihood that one travels from DUB instead of BFS is lower when flying to MCO instead of NYC.

[Husky One]

When United operated the EWR is was cheap enough. Usually on a par with Dub prices. The Biz class was regularly busy although hard to know if they were upgrades or not. The dearest I paid was £750 to LAS over a school holiday. I regularly got Florida connections and other similar length trips between £4-500.
Virgin are pricing themselves out of the game. You can fly from DUB to MCO in American’s Premium cabin for about 3/4 of what VS charge in economy. Virgin’s forward bookings in the shoulder months are grim with virtually no interest in the J cabin and little more in Premium. They’ve just dumbed down their economy product again but kept the prices up. If anything they’ll be scaling back next year, not expanding further. The 747’s retire within 4 years. If they’re still around BFS they’re more likely to be using the 330 than the 350. I’m surprised they didn’t use it in the first place. The 330 makes a lot more sense than a 468 seat Jumbo.

[A320.b744]

Virgin’s forward bookings in the shoulder months are grim with virtually no interest in the J cabin and little more in Premium. They’ve just dumbed down their economy product again but kept the prices up. If anything they’ll be scaling back next year, not expanding further. The 747’s retire within 4 years. If they’re still around BFS they’re more likely to be using the 330 than the 350. I’m surprised they didn’t use it in the first place. The 330 makes a lot more sense than a 468 seat Jumbo.

Actually, for a low-J/W demand route such as BFS-MCO, the B744 makes a lot more sense than using the A333. Just look at the aircraft configurations;

A333; 31/48/185 (264) vs B744; 14/66/375 (455)

The A333 is a lot more premium heavy than the B744, and is wholly unsuitable for BFS operations. The A333 is actually used primarily for key business routes alongside the B789, whereas the B744s are reserved exclusively for leisure routes. There are 79 premium seats on the A333, compared with 80 on the B744. VS would find it difficult to fill 75% of the seats on an A333, whereas passenger figures show that the airline exceeds this load factor when using the B744.

In 2016, VS carried on average 354 pax per flight (78% LF), and 385 pax in 2017 (85% LF), so it is clear that operating the B744 on this route is working well for VS.

[owenc]

Oh dear, the route is going down the chute according to Huskeyone :(

(Yes it is very expensive. Only £1500 return Business Class from Dublin, and about £4,000 with Virgin)

[EGAC is Better]

Oh dear, the route is going down the chute according to Huskeyone :(

(Yes it is very expensive. Only £1500 return Business Class from Dublin, and about £4,000 with Virgin)

+1 from me on the premium cabin prices with Virgin.

As a comparison I will be heading to Malaysia in December. BHD-Langkawi, Premium Economy with BA for £1100. That is equivalent or less cost (to travel almost twice the distance) than Virgin want for a similar ‘high season’ prices in the same cabin from BFS to MCO.

As already mentioned, from Dublin you can fly AA to MCO for £650 in Premium Econ if booked sensibly in advance and clear border control before you even leave this island.

Maybe Virgin don’t really care about the premium market as long as they are filling 300+ Y seats out of BFS? Premium cabin occupancy might just be cream on top?

[BFS BHD]

Jet2 Summer 2019 is being released.

[GAZMO]

Jet 2 - Almeria LEI reduced to one weekly. Also showing AGP as one weekly.......very strange maybe more to come
A few earlier starts AYT NAP starting in April, and DLM starting in May. All one month earlier than 2018

[GAZMO]

Update

BFS to AGP now three weekly

[Husky One]

You can make statistics say anything you want but in reality an A330 is far cheaper to operate than a 744, cabins can be easily retrofitted and will be as the old fleet retires, a 78% LF based on a few flights in peak season doesn’t really tell you much compared to a half year operation. What virgin have failed to appreciate is the fine tuning of the price point beyond which people will trundle towards Dub. The VS product is no longer sufficiently different to stop that. So many airlines fail to understand our market.

[BFS BHD]

Jet 2 - Almeria LEI reduced to one weekly. Also showing AGP as one weekly.......very strange maybe more to come
A few earlier starts AYT NAP starting in April, and DLM starting in May. All one month earlier than 2018

Looks like the only gaps for S19 is on Wednesdays.

Wednesday afternoon there is a gap after a Palma flight (B733 aircraft).

Also one of the B738 aircraft has no flights on Wednesdays.

[A320.b744]

You can make statistics say anything you want but in reality an A330 is far cheaper to operate than a 744, cabins can be easily retrofitted and will be as the old fleet retires, a 78% LF based on a few flights in peak season doesn’t really tell you much compared to a half year operation. What virgin have failed to appreciate is the fine tuning of the price point beyond which people will trundle towards Dub. The VS product is no longer sufficiently different to stop that. So many airlines fail to understand our market.

The fact is that Virgin's A333s are used on their business routes. Sure, you can retrofit them to have a leisure configuration, but then what would Virgin operate on their key business routes? There's no chance that they'd retrofit the B744s to operate them on business routes (potentially at a loss) for just a couple of years before retiring them.

Virgin's current business model is to use the B744 on leisure routes, and the A333, A346 and B789 on their business routes. Virgin aren't going to change their entire business model just because it *could possibly* benefit one seasonal route. You need to look at the bigger picture - the B744s will be retired in a couple of years, with the A350-1000 pegged to replace them. Yes, the B744 is slightly too big for BFS, but a more suitable aircraft, configured with a leisure cabin, will be available in just a few years.

Plus; by using the B744 for all MCO operations, it means that there are fewer positioning flights. Throughout the whole season, VS will only need to fly two empty positioning flights (LGW-BFS on the first day of the schedule, and BFS-LGW on the last day). If the A333 was used instead, VS would need to fly the aircraft empty LHR-BFS and BFS-LHR every single week. That's a wholly inefficient way of operating the BFS flights.

Also, the fact that VS have increased their BFS offering every year since the route's inception clearly shows that the airline is content with the amount of money it's making.

[waffler]

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/299938/virgin-atlantic-reports-28-million-loss

Not sure if you know about this

[Husky One]

Nobody said they would change their model to accommodate one route :ugh:
The reality of the way VS operate is that they don’t know which aircraft will really be flying which route 6 months ahead never mind several years. They’ve even had to buy back an A340-600 recently to cover the mess made by the 787. The latter is also already too small for what they’re doing. If there are no A330’s serving MCO this year it’ll be the first year they’ve tried it. They’ve just chopped CUN which has better figures than BFS and 4 years is a long time to have a very large aircraft flying half empty for the majority of the summer season. I’d put a lot of money on next year’s program starting late and finishing early. With the fares they charge, a £28million loss points at a requirement for some fundamental changes. Delta passengers may like VS but Delta management will be breathing down their neck to make significant changes.

[owenc]

85% isn't half empty.

[A320.b744]

Nobody said they would change their model to accommodate one route :ugh:
The reality of the way VS operate is that they don’t know which aircraft will really be flying which route 6 months ahead never mind several years. They’ve even had to buy back an A340-600 recently to cover the mess made by the 787. The latter is also already too small for what they’re doing. If there are no A330’s serving MCO this year it’ll be the first year they’ve tried it. They’ve just chopped CUN which has better figures than BFS and 4 years is a long time to have a very large aircraft flying half empty for the majority of the summer season. I’d put a lot of money on next year’s program starting late and finishing early. With the fares they charge, a £28million loss points at a requirement for some fundamental changes. Delta passengers may like VS but Delta management will be breathing down their neck to make significant changes.

As I mentioned previously, VS had an 85% load factor on their BFS-MCO route in 2017. This is 7.2% higher than Virgin's June-July (i.e. the months BFS-MCO operated) average load factor of 77.8%. VS certainly aren't flying half empty B744s from Belfast.

[scodaman]

Just booked Jet2 for Malta from Stansted for July. It is cheaper for a party of 3 to fly from LDY with Flybmi, then STN to Malta with Jet2, week in Malta, back to STN with Jet2, night in Raddison in STN and then Flybmi back to LDY than it is for the SAME holiday direct to Malta from BFS with Jet2. Saving around £400 on BFS price. Done the same last year from LDY - STN to Faro with Jet2, savings then around £300 compared to BFS.

[Husky One]

VS MCO April and May with the exception of Easter weekend has at least 200 seats avail and often nobody in J, very few in W - Yet still it’s cheaper to go through Dublin. Some flights have less than 100 on them. Yes they’ll always fill it in July and August but the rest of the time I very much doubt it :hmm:

[A320.b744]

VS MCO April and May with the exception of Easter weekend has at least 200 seats avail and often nobody in J, very few in W - Yet still it’s cheaper to go through Dublin. Some flights have less than 100 on them. Yes they’ll always fill it in July and August but the rest of the time I very much doubt it :hmm:

You are pulling random 'figures' out of thin air, none of which can be backed up by official statistics.

First of all, there are no April/May statistics for BFS given that this year is the first year VS is operating BFS-MCO throughout the entire summer season.

Secondly, your passenger 'figures' above suggest that the average load factor is 56% (200 free seats), with some flights as low as 22% (100 seats filled). As I've said above, there are no figures for BFS, but VS operate GLA-MCO and MAN-MCO, both flown solely by the B744. Official CAA statistics for 2017 are as follows;

April 2017
GLA-MCO: 72%
MAN-MCO: 74%

May 2017
GLA-MCO: 74%
MAN-MCO: 79%

This means that over the April/May period, VS flights from GLA had on average 133 empty seats, and just 105 empty seats on flights from MAN.

[West Brit]

Just booked Jet2 for Malta from Stansted for July. It is cheaper for a party of 3 to fly from LDY with Flybmi, then STN to Malta with Jet2, week in Malta, back to STN with Jet2, night in Raddison in STN and then Flybmi back to LDY than it is for the SAME holiday direct to Malta from BFS with Jet2. Saving around £400 on BFS price. Done the same last year from LDY - STN to Faro with Jet2, savings then around £300 compared to BFS.

No brainer. If you are booking for July now from Belfast to the Med you are going to pay premium as this is NI peak. The English holiday peak is August, try the same in August!

[West Brit]

PS you probably would have saved a further £390 if you had flown to STN from BFS.

[Husky One]

A320 I was talking about this year. Shoulder season forward bookings are poor. But I'll now bow to your superior knowledge of historical spreadsheets.
Some people need to get out more :rolleyes:

[BFS101]

I believe that Jet2 is a 3 aircraft base at BFS this summer. Could be wrong. In the NI Travel News press release it stated that there will be a 7 per cent increase in seats for summer 2019 over summer 2018, and lists routes that will utilise the larger -800 aircraft. So I believe this is where the additional seats will come from. However then goes on to state that 4 aircraft will be based at BFS for summer 19.


With the use of larger aircraft and if an additional aircraft was based, would the increase not be assumed to be larger than 7 per cent?


On the back of a bumper Summer 2018 programme, there is even more growth in response to demand for Summer 2019. The addition of 30,000 seats means over 450,000 seats are going on sale, a 7 per cent capacity increase, which will be supported by four aircraft at the base.

[True Blue]

4 aircraft this summer

[BFS101]

Cheers True Blue

[29Alpha]

2 300 series 2 800 series

[BFS_Dispatch]

I believe that Jet2 is a 3 aircraft base at BFS this summer. Could be wrong. In the NI Travel News press release it stated that there will be a 7 per cent increase in seats for summer 2019 over summer 2018, and lists routes that will utilise the larger -800 aircraft. So I believe this is where the additional seats will come from. However then goes on to state that 4 aircraft will be based at BFS for summer 19.


With the use of larger aircraft and if an additional aircraft was based, would the increase not be assumed to be larger than 7 per cent?

BFS is 3 aircrafts this summer, 2 733's and a 738. However I just can't see Jet2 being able to bring in a fourth.

With EZY predicting 7 for next summer, RYR 3, LS 3, TCX 1 and a Sunwing operated Thomson 738 all nightstopping, there could br a lack of room!

[True Blue]

Jet2 announced on 26th April 2017 that they would be basing a fourth aircraft at Bfs this summer. I believe their programme needs 4 aircraft. Has their plans changed so that they will only be operating 3?

[Fly757X]

Jet2 announced on 26th April 2017 that they would be basing a fourth aircraft at Bfs this summer. I believe their programme needs 4 aircraft. Has their plans changed so that they will only be operating 3?

Still will be 4.

[West Brit]

Jet 2 Saturday morning
0700 Palma
0710 Faro
0725 Alicante
0750 Malaga

[29Alpha]

Is the us air force at the airport a regular thing these days?

[BFS BHD]

Key headlines from Belfast International for Summer 19 are:

24 destinations to go on sale with more announcements coming soon!

More flights and holidays to popular destinations such as Alicante, the Canary Islands, the Algarve, Turkey and Cyprus

7% increase in capacity means another summer sizzler from Belfast International

Over 450,000 seats going on sale to meet demand – meaning the addition of 30,000 seats

The additional flights and holidays are as follows:

Tenerife – services on larger Boeing 737-800 aircraft mean a massive 19% capacity increase.

Gran Canaria – all services on larger Boeing 737-800 aircraft meaning more seats for Summer 19.

Faro – increased capacity in early and late Summer season.

Dalaman – extended season with weekly services from early May to early November.

Paphos –extended season to meet demand with services from early April to mid-November.

Naples – extended season with weekly services from April.

https://www.jet2.com/News/Summer_Sun_for_2019_from_Belfast_International__NOW_ON_SALE/

[GAZMO]

BFS is 3 aircrafts this summer, 2 733's and a 738. However I just can't see Jet2 being able to bring in a fourth.

With EZY predicting 7 for next summer, RYR 3, LS 3, TCX 1 and a Sunwing operated Thomson 738 all nightstopping, there could br a lack of room!

BFS dispatch

Were are getting the information about 7 EZY aircraft and 3 FR for next year?

[GAZMO]

Balkan Holidays have 2019 on sale.

Similar to 2018 starting 24th May ending 20th September with up to 3 weekly flights in peak July

[BFS_Dispatch]

BFS dispatch

Were are getting the information about 7 EZY aircraft and 3 FR for next year?

There's been chatter for a while now on 7 EZY's. There was supposesly plans to introduce the 4th A319 in June 2018, but never came to fruition. As for Ryanair, I've heard that over the summer months of 19, the MAN,STN and alternating international flights (ALC, SXF etc.) will all go early to mid morning

[A320.b744]

The schedule for S19 has gaps for 2 additional weekly flights - Wednesday afternoon (B733) and Friday afternoon (B738) - so there may yet be a new route announcement in the coming weeks.

A couple of negative points about the S19 schedule;

Naples and Madeira are being downgraded from the B738 to the B733.
Almería is having its frequency cut from x2 weekly to x1 weekly.

[BFS BHD]

The schedule for S19 has gaps for 2 additional weekly flights - Wednesday afternoon (B733) and Friday afternoon (B738) - so there may yet be a new route announcement in the coming weeks.

A couple of negative points about the S19 schedule;

Naples and Madeira are being downgraded from the B738 to the B733.
Almería is having its frequency cut from x2 weekly to x1 weekly.

No gaps on Fridays. Antalya and Rhodes are operated on Friday afternoons on the B738s.
There is another gap on Wednesdays all day on one of the B738s.

[A320.b744]

No gaps on Fridays. Antalya and Rhodes are operated on Friday afternoons on the B738s.
There is another gap on Wednesdays all day on one of the B738s.

My apologies; evidently I used the timings for Paphos twice.

Given that all of the gaps are on Wednesdays, that means we're likely to see 2 or 3 new routes, depending on sector length.

Based on Jet2's destinations served by all/most bases except for BFS, the likely contenders are Bodrum, Corfu, Larnaca and Thessaloniki.

[El Bunto]

Is the us air force at the airport a regular thing these days?

Yes but only for certain units.

The way the USAF / USANG works on contracts is decentralised. The handler has to approach each Wing to persuade them to award the contract for handling. When Global Trek was evicted from Prestwick and moved over to NI they brought their contracts with them, and have added more. C-130s mainly, some KC-10s and a couple of KC-135s.

In contrast the US Navy seems to make a centralised decision on handling airports. However they don't dwell as long on the ground at Belfast and so are less often seen.

Certain spotters say we're not 'supposed' to talk about all this in case the US military takes a huff and pulls out. They like their secret little club.

[True Blue]

The press release on the airport website about Jet2 S19 states more announcements to come from them.

[MaverickPrime]

I heard on the grape vine that there is a ‘big’ announcement on the way? No idea what it is though, can anyone spill the beans?

[West Brit]

The MD has been silent on Twitter for over a month now.(not like him) Is he ok? or is he really busy?

[29Alpha]

Hopefully something that can be a real winner, not another low cost, low interest flight/s, but beggars can't be choosers

[A320.b744]

I heard on the grape vine that there is a ‘big’ announcement on the way? No idea what it is though, can anyone spill the beans?

Any idea of a timeframe? There's apparently been a 'big' announcement on the way for at least the last 3 months according to posters on here!

I've heard a few rumours - nothing concrete - but if any of these rumours are actually fulfilled then BFS management (and all of us) would be jumping with glee. But, knowing our luck the rumours will just stay rumours, and the announcement will be something boring like a new charter flight to ALC! I suppose one can always live in hope...

[owenc]

Aye.. You could do us a favour and tell us the rumours.

[A320.b744]

Aye.. You could do us a favour and tell us the rumours.

I wouldn't want to get everyone's hopes up. After all, 4-5 years ago we had several 'imminent' announcements for new routes with Air Canada, Emirates, Etihad, Qatar and Turkish, with these routes being branded a sure thing. But 5 years later and those announcements still haven't come ... yet.

Feel free to PM me if you really want to know what my sources are telling me, though as I've said the information isn't concrete, so I wouldn't bet my life on them turning into routes.

[DC9_10]

From what I've heard from Airline Partners group at Manchester, KLM moving to BFS as they want a 05.55 morning departure.

[owenc]

When is this happening?

[DC9_10]

Been told asap, but EZY not happy. It's gonna happen thought.

[A320.b744]

From what I've heard from Airline Partners group at Manchester, KLM moving to BFS as they want a 05.55 morning departure.
Been told asap, but EZY not happy. It's gonna happen thought.


Now that would certainly be a 'big' announcement! BFS management would be jumping with glee.

Are you certain it's going to happen though? Surely both Belfast airports and KLM would be very tight-lipped if KLM were making the move.

When you say ASAP, are we talking about as early as Winter 18/19, or Summer 19, and do you know when BFS/KLM plan on making the announcement?

If true, this would explain why BHD haven't advertised KLM on their Twitter page since mid January. Before then there was generally 1-2 tweets a week with various KLM deals and offers. It would also explain why BHD management have seemingly given up on trying to establish the second daily flight to AMS.

It does beg the question however - KLM have been planning to operate AMS-BHD up to x3 daily since they launched the route back in 2015. If they wanted a 05:55 departure from Belfast, then why on Earth did KLM commence operations from BHD in the first place? Surely they would have known the strict operating restrictions.

[Alteagod]

At least at BFS they could operate whatever A/C type that took there fancy even if it was only once a day to AMS.

[owenc]

A 737-700 could function well from Belfast? No? 3x daily.

[EGAC is Better]

Genuine question, what would KLM passengers gain from a 0555 departure from BFS that wouldn’t be possible with a 0630 from BHD?

The 2-2 layout of the E-Jets currently in use to Belfast is vastly superior than 3-3 on a B737. Any upgauge to a 737 would be at the detriment to comfort IMO.

[El Bunto]

Genuine question, what would KLM passengers gain from a 0555 departure from BFS that wouldn’t be possible with a 0630 from BHD?

Early-wave integration ( 08:00 Euro, 09:30 long-haul ) without parking an aircraft + crew overnight in Belfast.

[EGAC is Better]

Early-wave integration ( 08:00 Euro, 09:30 long-haul ) without parking an aircraft + crew overnight in Belfast.

Benefits for all then! Thanks El Bunto.

[BCALBOY]

Confused .
An 0555 dep would arr AMS around 0835 so wouldn't make 0800 Euro waves do would require aircraft and crew to overnight from previous evening.

[West Brit]

Early-wave integration ( 08:00 Euro, 09:30 long-haul ) without parking an aircraft + crew overnight in Belfast.

Are you suggesting that a flight arrives in empty around 05.20 from AMS to do the 1st flight out from Belfast?

[A320.b744]

KLM has 3 main waves of European arrivals (2 morning, 1 evening), as well as a more spread out fourth wave in the afternoon.

The most popular wave for UK/Ireland flights arriving into AMS is the third wave, with 17 out of 18 airports (including BHD) operating during this period. The first wave includes 14 airports, and the second wave includes 15 airports.

The early morning wave of KLM European flights depart the UK/Ireland between 05:55-06:30, and arrive in Amsterdam between 08:10-09:00. A 05:55 departure from BFS (which is the same as from DUB) would mean the aircraft would arrive in AMS at approximately 08:35, right in the middle of the UK/Ireland early morning arrivals. It would also require an overnight stop, which KLM already do at 14 UK/Ireland airports.

Based on KLM's current BHD schedule and KLM's other UK/Ireland operations, then this would be the likely schedule for double daily flights to BFS.

BFS-AMS: 05:55-08:35
AMS-BFS: 16:05-16:45
BFS-AMS: 17:50-19:15
AMS-BFS: 21:35-22:15

This schedule allows for BFS passengers to arrive in AMS in time for two waves of European flights, plus the vast majority of long haul departures. Comparatively, KLM's current BHD schedule allows for only one wave of European departures, and a select few long haul destinations to Asia and South America.

However, I would not be surprised if KLM were to add an additional third daily flight from BFS. Only 3 out of KLM's 18 UK/Ireland airports do not have at least three daily departures (BHD, INV, SOU), so expansion from BFS would likely mean three daily flights.

If KLM were to add a third daily flight, the likely flight times would be as follows;

AMS-BFS: 07:45-08:25
BFS-AMS: 08:55-11:35

Thus would mean BFS passengers would be able to arrive in AMS in time for three waves of European flights, plus all long haul departures.

[Alteagod]

Assuming all pax transfer to KL flights with code shares etc I am sure they could fill the flights ans probably to the detriment of EI and BA who depend on a great deal on onwards traffic rather than point to point.

[A320.b744]

Assuming all pax transfer to KL flights with code shares etc I am sure they could fill the flights ans probably to the detriment of EI and BA who depend on a great deal on onwards traffic rather than point to point.

According to an article from 2016 (I believe it was on anna.aero), only about 1/3 of BA passengers on BHD-LHR are connecting passengers, and I imagine there are even fewer connecting with EI. Back in 2016, KLM said that 45% of BHD passengers connected at AMS. This was the lowest figure across KLM's UK/Ireland network, with 75% of all UK/Ireland passengers connecting at AMS. While I do think that this figure would rise if passengers had a greater choice of connections, if anyone is going to suffer from KLM increasing their frequency, it'll most likely be easyJet.

[GAZMO]

Just for information

https://news.causewaycoastcommunity.co.uk/ni-news/improved-links-between-derry-londonderry-and-coleraine-line-trains-and-belfast-international-airport/

[29Alpha]

Pity about the railway line about 200 yards away, #imboseals

[El Bunto]

Are you suggesting that a flight arrives in empty around 05.20 from AMS to do the 1st flight out from Belfast?

I don't know for certain but International gives them that option ( they don't night-stop at Dublin either ).

Of course looking at the other end of the day you might be right, a 23:00 arrival would let them sweep connections from the last Schiphol inbound waves ( around 21:00 CET ) and then park overnight.

Anyone remember what the schedule was was NLM ran into International? There were a few upgauges to KLM 737s during the week as I recall.

[A320.b744]

I don't know for certain but International gives them that option ( they don't night-stop at Dublin either ).


KLM do have a night-stop at DUB, as well as 13 other airports in the UK/Ireland (i.e. all airports that have an early morning KLM departure)

KL939 AMS-DUB arrives in DUB at 22:15. That aircraft remains in DUB overnight, and then operates KL932 the next morning, departing at 05:55.


Anyone remember what the schedule was was NLM ran into International? There were a few upgauges to KLM 737s during the week as I recall.

I don't know NLM's old BFS schedule, but passenger numbers might help with the frequency.

From 1992-1996, approx 40,000 pax used the route, indicating daily Fokker flights. In 1997, approx 60,000 used the route, indicating that the B737 was used on select days. From 1998-1999, approx 120,000 pax used the route, indicating double daily flights, with both Fokker and B737 aircraft in use.

[EI-A330-300]

I don't buy the whole 05.55 Belfast departure. They have 05.55 out of DUB because they wouldn't of gotten anytime within 06.00-06.30 departure slots.

They could get an 06.30 out of BHD and be in AMS for 09.05.

LHR-AMS first departure is 06.30 arriving at 09.00

I'm sure some slot adjustment at AMS can solve any potential problems which BHD has. I mean they put up with a lather LHR arrival because there is no choice.

[A320.b744]

I don't buy the whole 05.55 Belfast departure. They have 05.55 out of DUB because they wouldn't of gotten anytime within 06.00-06.30 departure slots.

They could get an 06.30 out of BHD and be in AMS for 09.05.

LHR-AMS first departure is 06.30 arriving at 09.00

I'm sure some slot adjustment at AMS can solve any potential problems which BHD has. I mean they put up with a lather LHR arrival because there is no choice.


The main problem with BHD is the late night arrival required to facilitate an early morning departure. KLM's final wave of European departures are between 21:00-22:30. If KLM were to depart AMS for BHD at 21:00, the aircraft would arrive at 21:35, i.e. after BHD's curfew. Even if KLM decided to depart slightly before 21:00, it would mean any delays would result in an arrival after 21:30. In addition, a 06:30 departure from BHD would mean a 09:05 arrival into AMS, one of the last of KLM's early morning European arrivals. Given that KLM's next wave of departures begin at 10:00, it doesn't give passengers much time to make their connections, especially since the aircraft parks at a remote stand in AMS. Combine that with any delays incurred, and it's simply not feasible to operate from BHD.

[snn20]

The MD has been silent on Twitter for over a month now.(not like him) Is he ok? or is he really busy?

No hes off twitter as he retweeted a tweet from the DUP, he upset quite a few people. Staying off until it blows over i assume

[BHD2BFS]

With regards to ezy not being happy I really don’t think KLM’s arrival would effect them
Ezy as we know is all point to point and Pax numbers have still been growing even with the arrival of klm so I think figures would must continue to increase for both carriers
It would mean on certain days there would be 5 ams flights a day if klm do go for 3 making it the busiest EU route from NI

[29Alpha]

Bfs management got lucky when ryanair messed up on lgw, that saved a major bfs lgw turf war, if this klm rumour turns out to be true the management will need to play it fairly, not to be saying to the low cost market but, klm/air france totally different market, bfs may need to wise up if they get it, namely the handler, noseloader etc

[snn20]

friend sent me this, from bfs mgmt https://ibb.co/kpuOUx

[A320.b744]

friend sent me this, from bfs mgmt https://ibb.co/kpuOUx

I can assure you that if KLM are indeed relocating to BFS, then BFS management will want to make a huge PR stunt out of it. There's no way that BFS would leak any information before the official announcement, and thus spoil the surprise! At this moment in time, it's business as usual - KLM are still officially operating AMS-BHD in W18/19 - and that will be the official BFS position until they go public with the (rumoured) news.

[BHD2BFS]

When rumours of bmi baby and EI moving to Bhd it all came to fruition. Which makes me believe that it could very much happen.
With that said could KLM/AF start a Paris route? I’m sure a deal could be struck
With Eurowings doing well I wonder if the have NI on their radar question is which airport ?

[A320.b744]

When rumours of bmi baby and EI moving to Bhd it all came to fruition. Which makes me believe that it could very much happen.
With that said could KLM/AF start a Paris route? I’m sure a deal could be struck

Back in 2015, 2016 and 2017 KLM have stated that as well as extending BHD-AMS to two/three times daily, they were also looking at starting more routes from Belfast with other Air France/KLM airlines - i.e. Air France (CDG), Joon (CDG), Transavia (EIN, RTM) and Transavia France (ORY).

I am hoping that the rumoured KLM announcement will include a daily Air France service to CDG on top of the extra flights to AMS, though it's probably unlikely. However, I do think that Air France will come to Belfast within the next 5 years.


With Eurowings doing well I wonder if the have NI on their radar question is which airport ?

My sources are telling me that Eurowings (and Lufthansa Group as a whole) are looking solely at BFS for potential Belfast operations, having already disregarded BHD.

[emma1]

KLM are definitely not coming to bfs

[snn20]

Moving away from the KLM hearsay, Norwegian have announced their first cuts for W18, Cork to Provedince suspended for the winter. Hearing at least one or more airports at risk too.

[MaverickPrime]

Can anyone tell me how NCL, smaller airport than BFS, has a direct route to DXB and can manage to sustain it?

Ahhhhhh :ugh: wish we had a direct route to DXB, AUH or DOH!

[AerRyan]

Different markets. Passenger numbers only tell some of the story.

[SecondDog]

KLM are definitely not coming to bfs

Aw damn. Now that you've stated that on pprune, I guess that is it settled.

[AerRyan]

The history of uninformed posts also makes me quite skeptical ;)

[El Bunto]

Can anyone tell me how NCL, smaller airport than BFS, has a direct route to DXB and can manage to sustain it?

The flight is moderately-loaded and so has a lot of belly cargo space, which is usually filled and is very lucrative. There is freight shipped from Scotland and much of the rest of the UK, even overflow from East Midlands.

Which explains why Newcastle can sustain a daily 777, but not why Belfast could't attract one single Middle East carrier when Dublin have three...

[A320.b744]

Another important point to note is that when Emirates commenced DXB-NCL in 2007, they did so using the A332 (237 seats). It took five years for Emirates to generate enough demand to be able to sustainably operate the much larger B77W (360 seats). BFS doesn't have that luxury, given that Emirates have since retired their A332 fleet. In order for Emirates to launch DXB-BFS, they would need to be confident that the route could generate at least 200,000 passengers annually (out of 262,800 available seats - approx 77% LF) within the first couple of years of operation.

That is why out of the ME3, Qatar Airways have been the most vocal about a potential BFS route, given that they operate the much smaller B788 (254 seats). In addition, Emirates' B77W has 10 First and 42 Business Class seats, compared with just 22 Business Class seats onboard the Qatar Airways B788. A potential BFS route would likely be unable to fill just 22 J seats, never mind 52 F/J seats, making Emirates even less likely to operate DXB-BFS.

Qatar Airways haven't yet ruled out BFS, and have already launched routes to smaller airports such as CWL, so it is likely that DOH-BFS will be the airport's best bet. However, I doubt that such a route would be in operation until after 2020.

[Pizzacake]

Can anyone tell me how NCL, smaller airport than BFS, has a direct route to DXB and can manage to sustain it?

Ahhhhhh :ugh: wish we had a direct route to DXB, AUH or DOH!

NCL is in a metropolitan area where it has more than a million people, here in NI we have two airports serving 1.7 ish, then a third not two hours drive away. Newcastle also is well seperated from its nearest international competitors by a good distance in that they would likely be Liverpool and Edinburgh. That means despite being a “smaller” airport it has a much bigger catchment area from which to draw bums to fill seats. People will be traveling further to fly to the ME or beyond via NCL than people travel to Dublin.

[West Brit]

NCL is in a metropolitan area where it has more than a million people, here in NI we have two airports serving 1.7 ish, then a third not two hours drive away. Newcastle also is well seperated from its nearest international competitors by a good distance in that they would likely be Liverpool and Edinburgh. That means despite being a “smaller” airport it has a much bigger catchment area from which to draw bums to fill seats. People will be traveling further to fly to the ME or beyond via NCL than people travel to Dublin.

We have border counties as well. It is irrelevant with regard to 2 airports at Belfast as Long Haul can only operate from BFS.

[emma1]

Ezy A320 NEO coming to BFS this month for a week

[owenc]

Belfast has more passengers than NCL by 2 million, so that's that argument out the window.

[GrahamK]

Belfast has more passengers than NCL by 2 million, so that's that argument out the window.

If your combining the 2 Belfast Airports yes, otherwise for 2017, BFS was 5.83m and NCL 5.29m

[A320.b744]

NCL is in a metropolitan area where it has more than a million people, here in NI we have two airports serving 1.7 ish, then a third not two hours drive away. Newcastle also is well seperated from its nearest international competitors by a good distance in that they would likely be Liverpool and Edinburgh. That means despite being a “smaller” airport it has a much bigger catchment area from which to draw bums to fill seats. People will be traveling further to fly to the ME or beyond via NCL than people travel to Dublin.

Belfast has more passengers than NCL by 2 million, so that's that argument out the window.

Several key points need to be made;

Yes, when looking at the raw figures, BFS/BHD is much larger than NCL (7,422,922 vs 5,650,716 in 2007; 8,396,404 vs 5,300,274 in 2017). However, in 2007 (the year Emirates commenced DXB-NCL), only 25% of BFS/BHD passengers were international passengers (1,882,354 pax), compared with 70% from NCL (3,948,594 pax). The story is the same in 2017 as well - NCL still handles twice as many international passengers as BFS/BHD, despite handling 3 million fewer passengers as a whole.


In 2007, NCL already had five hub connections - Aer Lingus (DUB), British Airways (LHR), Brussels Airlines (BRU), KLM (AMS), Lufthansa (DUS). On the other hand, BFS/BHD just had two hub connections - bmi (LHR) and Continental Airlines (EWR). Even in 2007, NCL had a much higher demand for additional hub services than BFS/BHD. In fact, BFS/BHD still only has two hub connections - British Airways (LHR), KLM (AMS).


NCL has a catchment area of 3.7 million. BFS has a catchment area of 1.95 million. However, both airports' catchment areas overlap with other airports with ME3 services;

BFS: DUB
NCL: EDI, GLA, MAN

EDI, GLA and MAN are all within a three hour drive of NCL, and for the majority of people within NCL's catchment area, these alternative airports are equidistant to NCL. Therefore, the whole 'BFS doesn't need a ME3 service because passengers can just fly from DUB instead' argument is void.

On top of that, when Emirates commenced DXB-NCL in 2007, they didn't yet operate to DUB, meaning at BFS service at the time was even less likely. In fact, DUB only received its first ME3 route in August 2007 with Etihad Airways, and it took Emirates until January 2012 to commence DXB-DUB.

[MaverickPrime]

Lots of interesting answers. I'm not an expert, but I could guess an EK 77W is too big for BFS which was why I was surprised that EK flies it from NCL.

I would have thought QR with their 788 could make BFS-DOH profitable. There isn't a huge difference between a 788 and 321 in terms of seat numbers. That brings me to my next point. QR has the A321NEO on order which should have the range to operate BFS-DOH, maybe thats the real option?

I suppose the really feasible option is Turkish Airlines, they could definitely do it on the 321/739. They'd get people wanting to holiday in Turkey as well as people connecting long haul.

In terms of J class, I reckon most NI ex-pats working in the ME could probably afford a J class seat, or else QR staff could use them on standby tickets; ok the company makes very little money, but better than nothing.

[NWSRG]

EK has the 787-10 coming...but there is also talk that they could change some orders to 787-9. Which might be an ideal aircraft to start Belfast - Dubai.

I am honestly staggered at the number of flights EK seem to be able to fill...but somehow they seem to manage it. So why not Belfast?

[AerRyan]

Different markets. How many times does it have to be said?

Take a look at the North East, with the many families of Asian or African descent. Take a look at Northern Ireland, not a patch on that.

[SWBKCB]

In addition, Emirates' B77W has 10 First and 42 Business Class seats, compared with just 22 Business Class seats onboard the Qatar Airways B788.

The EK 77W fleet has a number of different configs - the Newcastle route usually gets the so-called "two-class" without First.

EDI, GLA and MAN are all within a three hour drive of NCL, and for the majority of people within NCL's catchment area, these alternative airports are equidistant to NCL. Therefore, the whole 'BFS doesn't need a ME3 service because passengers can just fly from DUB instead' argument is void.

Belfast to Dublin is a damn sight easier drive than any of these three.

Take a look at the North East, with the many families of Asian or African descent. Take a look at Northern Ireland, not a patch on that.

interesting point, any stats to back that up?

[Copenhagen]

Belfast has more passengers than NCL by 2 million, so that's that argument out the window.

You have conveniently forgotten that Belfast requires flights for the vast majority of travel to GB, whilst Newcastle has Road and rail. Remove domestic travel from both airports, and Newcastle is a much larger airport.

[BFS BHD]

Both Norwegian routes will not operate during Winter 2018/19.

[Fly757X]

Both Norwegian routes will not operate during Winter 2018/19.

Time for a legacy carrier to pounce on BFS-NA?

[AerRyan]

Time for a legacy carrier to pounce on BFS-NA?

You mean like United did?

[Fly757X]

You mean like United did?

Exactly, much more respected in the local market. I doubt it would be United but American or Delta could be candidates. Just remember I am speaking out of my backside and I have no information. Just suggesting that It is an option considering how bum-hurt BFS were when the United was only seasonal too at one point, thus they would consider other options and the only options are the Legacy carriers.

[owenc]

Different markets. How many times does it have to be said?

Take a look at the North East, with the many families of Asian or African descent. Take a look at Northern Ireland, not a patch on that.

I know you are keen to dismiss Northern Ireland and our market.

We have approximately 20,000 people of Asian descent here so not tiny.

Our passenger market is around 9 million which is larger than NCL's 4 million.

I am sure we could handle a Middle Eastern route.

[snn20]

Pop of Newcastle:1,650,000
Belfast:671,559

[Danmadole]

I don't think Newcastle is anywhere near that population...maybe Tyne & Wear, Northumberland and Durham together...., but in that case Northern Ireland is around 1.8m.

[True Blue]

I see Jet2 has 4 departures tomorrow morning. Is it now a 4 aircraft base?

[A320.b744]

I know you are keen to dismiss Northern Ireland and our market.

We have approximately 20,000 people of Asian descent here so not tiny.

Our passenger market is around 9 million which is larger than NCL's 4 million.

I am sure we could handle a Middle Eastern route.

I would recommend that you read my previous post, which shows that the ‘BFS/BHD handle more passengers than NCL’ argument is simply pointless and misleading.

If Northern Ireland was connected to GB by road/train, then passenger numbers from BFS/BHD would plummet. Remember - 73% of BFS/BHD passengers in 2017 were domestic. A more fair analysis is by looking at international passengers, in which NCL handles more than double the number from BFS/BHD, or by looking at hub links - NCL thrashes BFS/BHD on this measure as well.

Also, BFS/BHD have a 120 min catchment area of 1.95 million. NCL’s 120 min catchment area is 3.7 million. It’s much more accurate to use these figures given by the airports instead of saying Belfast doesn’t deserve a ME3 route because it is smaller than Newcastle. Afterall, the cities don’t encompass the entire catchment area. One point worth noting is that while approximately half of BFS/BHDs catchment area is solely theirs, almost all of NCLs catchment area overlaps with those of EDI, GLA and MAN.

However, your point with regards to the Asian population of NI is interesting. Just because NI has a small Asian population, it doesn’t necessarily mean that a ME3 route isn’t sustainable. After all, there are only approx 60,000 Asians living in Ireland, and they make up roughly the same percentage of the Irish population as in Northern Ireland

[SecondDog]

Exactly, much more respected in the local market. I doubt it would be United but American or Delta could be candidates. Just remember I am speaking out of my backside and I have no information. Just suggesting that It is an option considering how bum-hurt BFS were when the United was only seasonal too at one point, thus they would consider other options and the only options are the Legacy carriers.

Not sure they are the only options...

[Una Due Tfc]

Not sure they are the only options...

Indeed. Air Canada are launching YYZ-SNN and YUL-DUB on the Max this year, and It’s only a matter of time before JetBlue start plying the Atlantic on 321LRs.

[owenc]

We need a legacy carrier.

[Fly757X]

Indeed. Air Canada are launching YYZ-SNN and YUL-DUB on the Max this year, and It’s only a matter of time before JetBlue start plying the Atlantic on 321LRs.

I personally would consider Air Canada as a "Legacy carrier" others would disagree :) As for JetBlue it is reasonable but their A321NEOS are coming in 2019.

[Fly757X]

I see Jet2 has 4 departures tomorrow morning. Is it now a 4 aircraft base?

Indeed, 3 -300s and 1 -800. G-GDFL came from EDI today.

[Una Due Tfc]

We need a legacy carrier.

You wouldn’t call Air Canada a legacy carrier?

[owenc]

I don't see Air Canada coming here. They went to SNN and that part of the Island doesn't have strong links with Canada, so there's little chance of them coming here.

[snn20]

I don't see Air Canada coming here. They went to SNN and that part of the Island doesn't have strong links with Canada, so there's little chance of them coming here.

What an absurd comment to make, thousands of people from this side of the island moved to canada during the recession...links with canada go all the way back to the great famine.

[29Alpha]

Ezy A320 NEO coming to BFS this month for a week

We were meant to get a neo in june for the season, does that mean this neo is just a week long or a longer stay?

[MaverickPrime]

It’s not just Asians that would use a ME3, what about all of the people connecting to Aus/NZ. Lots of people from NI travel there for leisure and there are strong Irish links in that part of the world.

Maybe this has already been discussed, but I see that NAS is reducing SWF to seasonal? Although EDI and SNN are also being treated the same.

[snn20]

It’s not just Asians that would use a ME3, what about all of the people connecting to Aus/NZ. Lots of people from NI travel there for leisure and there are strong Irish links in that part of the world.

Maybe this has already been discussed, but I see that NAS is reducing SWF to seasonal? Although EDI and SNN are also being treated the same.

ORK/EDI/SNN-PVD cut for the winter, BFS-SWF cut, BFS-PVD was always seasonal. SNN-SWF increased from 2x weekly last winter to 4x weekly this coming winter. DUB-SWF going to 2x daily in the winter.

[BFS BHD]

TUI Summer 2019 on sale no changes from Summer 2018.

[Una Due Tfc]

Just thinking about attracting a North American legacy carrier. UA had subsidies and an exemption from APD when they were in, so naturally DL, AA, AC would want similar if they were to consider flying to BFS. With no Stormont in place to approve/finance, would such a deal be possible right now?

[mart901]

Just thinking about attracting a North American legacy carrier. UA had subsidies and an exemption from APD when they were in, so naturally DL, AA, AC would want similar if they were to consider flying to BFS. With no Stormont in place to approve/finance, would such a deal be possible right now?

I think so because the money and policy was all in place before Stormont was collapsed.

[A320.b744]

Given that the final deal Stormont gave to United was rejected by the EU on grounds of state aid, wouldn't that mean that United (or indeed another airline) could be given that same deal once we leave the EU? It would be interesting to know if United and BFS have already come to an agreement that would see the route reinstated when the funds are made available post Brexit. That being said, I know that at least two US carriers have been knocking on BFS management's door, so maybe there's a deal being made with one of United's rivals...

[owenc]

Two American airlines have been desperate to create a route from Belfast? Delta and American, lol.

From where?

United probably wouldn't want to come back to Belfast with the removal of quite a few 757 routes recently.

[29Alpha]

Two American airlines have been desperate to create a route from Belfast? Delta and American, lol.

From where?

United probably wouldn't want to come back to Belfast with the removal of quite a few 757 routes recently.
I dont think you will see united full stop.

[owenc]

I agree. They've changed their tune towards British Isles routes!

[snn20]

They could return with the MAX -10s. According to some united crew, The reason they pulled the some of the 757 flights was because they made an agreement with Pilots and CC to utilize the 757s on Hawaiian routes.

[buzz_hornet]

Just thinking about attracting a North American legacy carrier. UA had subsidies and an exemption from APD when they were in, so naturally DL, AA, AC would want similar if they were to consider flying to BFS. With no Stormont in place to approve/finance, would such a deal be possible right now?

All flights over 4 hours are exempt from APD I believe

[OneBellEnd]

These developments around Norwegian US Routes may seem minor but perhaps the timing and mood music surrounding them for Dublin won’t turn out to be too clever?

It is totally obvious that Dublin are determined to maintain a Monopoly as an entry point for tourists onto the island of Ireland and this development reeks. The guys in Cork, who were extensively used by the airline and DUB to promote the case for a licence for Norwegian Air to operate Transatlantic, are totally livid at how they have been abused by Dublin and essentially cast aside. They are calling now for a dedicated Investment Agency to promote the regional economic needs of other parts of the country in the eastern seaboard area of the US, in lieu of the role being undertaken by Tourism Dublin!

Meanwhile the removal of the Norwegian flights from Belfast, not too long after a prospective deal to keep United in Belfast was dobbed in to the EU for investigation, with a strong entrail stretching south to the only direct beneficiaries of UA’s departure from BFS, seriously calls into question any logic in NI continuing to hand over £millions each year to Dublin for “tourism promotion” when it is clear all of this money is being scooped exclusively to sustain and support Dublin!

A lot of things remain uncertain, and will do so for the next few months. It will be interesting to see what impact the blind greed of Dublin, manifest in these types of setbacks for everyone else, including Belfast, will have on the detail of key matters like external tourism promotion when everyone has had their say and the portcullis ultimately gets lowered between the U.K. and the EU.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

These developments around Norwegian US Routes may seem minor but perhaps the timing and mood music surrounding them for Dublin won’t turn out to be too clever?

It is totally obvious that Dublin are determined to maintain a Monopoly as an entry point for tourists onto the island of Ireland and this development reeks. The guys in Cork, who were extensively used by the airline and DUB to promote the case for a licence for Norwegian Air to operate Transatlantic, are totally livid at how they have been abused by Dublin and essentially cast aside. They are calling now for a dedicated Investment Agency to promote the regional economic needs of other parts of the country in the eastern seaboard area of the US, in lieu of the role being undertaken by Tourism Dublin!

Meanwhile the removal of the Norwegian flights from Belfast, not too long after a prospective deal to keep United in Belfast was dobbed in to the EU for investigation, with a strong entrail stretching south to the only direct beneficiaries of UA’s departure from BFS, seriously calls into question any logic in NI continuing to hand over £millions each year to Dublin for “tourism promotion” when it is clear all of this money is being scooped exclusively to sustain and support Dublin!

A lot of things remain uncertain, and will do so for the next few months. It will be interesting to see what impact the blind greed of Dublin, manifest in these types of setbacks for everyone else, including Belfast, will have on the detail of key matters like external tourism promotion when everyone has had their say and the portcullis ultimately gets lowered between the U.K. and the EU.

If it wasn't for DUB and the daa Cork would not of secured Air France, Iberia, Swiss and even Norwegian. Very few are interested in Belfast.

In fact providence has struggled ex DUB as well.

The only loses from a border will be those in NI, even Arlene knows that...

[snn20]

These developments around Norwegian US Routes may seem minor but perhaps the timing and mood music surrounding them for Dublin won’t turn out to be too clever?

It is totally obvious that Dublin are determined to maintain a Monopoly as an entry point for tourists onto the island of Ireland and this development reeks. The guys in Cork, who were extensively used by the airline and DUB to promote the case for a licence for Norwegian Air to operate Transatlantic, are totally livid at how they have been abused by Dublin and essentially cast aside. They are calling now for a dedicated Investment Agency to promote the regional economic needs of other parts of the country in the eastern seaboard area of the US, in lieu of the role being undertaken by Tourism Dublin!

Meanwhile the removal of the Norwegian flights from Belfast, not too long after a prospective deal to keep United in Belfast was dobbed in to the EU for investigation, with a strong entrail stretching south to the only direct beneficiaries of UA’s departure from BFS, seriously calls into question any logic in NI continuing to hand over £millions each year to Dublin for “tourism promotion” when it is clear all of this money is being scooped exclusively to sustain and support Dublin!

A lot of things remain uncertain, and will do so for the next few months. It will be interesting to see what impact the blind greed of Dublin, manifest in these types of setbacks for everyone else, including Belfast, will have on the detail of key matters like external tourism promotion when everyone has had their say and the portcullis ultimately gets lowered between the U.K. and the EU.

Norwegian only care about DUB & SNN, cut services from all other airports

[canberra97]

Norwegian only care about DUB & SNN, cut services from all other airports

You are aware that Norwegian are suspending PVD to ORK and SNN for winter 2018/19.

[snn20]

You are aware that Norwegian are suspending PVD to ORK and SNN for winter 2018/19.

Fully aware of it, I’m also aware of Norwegian increasing SNN-SWF to 4x weekly for the winter compared to 2x weekly last winter. They’ve also increased SNN-SWF from 2x weekly last summer to 3x weekly this summer as well as SNN-PVD from 2x last summer to 4x this summer...no loss of seats but a gain in fact

[Copenhagen]

Could it be that people actually want to travel to Dublin?

It was painfully obvious that Norwegian would struggle with Belfast outside of the short summer season.

[owenc]

If it wasn't for DUB and the daa Cork would not of secured Air France, Iberia, Swiss and even Norwegian. Very few are interested in Belfast.

In fact providence has struggled ex DUB as well.

The only loses from a border will be those in NI, even Arlene knows that...
This forum has nothing to do with politics, so please stop forcing your opinion down our throats.

[OneBellEnd]

Admirable level of Dublin arrogance exhibited there folks.


"Very few are interested in Belfast" is a line taken directly from Paddy Goebbels Guide to Marketing the island of Ireland!


Of course no Dubliner is going to encourage visitors to go to Belfast. That is why the present system of external marketing is such a farce.


Futile as it is to elaborate I'll merely mention Titanic (The World's Best Visitor Attraction), the Giants Causeway, Game of Thrones, British Open Golf at Royal Portrush (2019) - for starters.


No one is suggesting people don't want to go to Dublin. It's just that they don't ALL want to go to Dublin, whether they're coming from Britain where their £ is worth the same in Belfast, but not in Dublin - or indeed from New York or Toronto. But the way things are set up, visitors are effectively being corralled into Dublin, whether they like it or not.


If Dublin was 'all that' perhaps Mr Cowen would not have produced such a creditable impersonation of Oliver Twist in Brussels, Berlin and London a few short years ago?


Let's see what transpires.

[snn20]

The island of Ireland is way to small for 10 airports. Dublin is within 3hrs drive from all parts of the country...in the USA people would drive for way more than that to get to an airport. And anyway this page isn’t for politics, I’m sure there are many others out there that are

[West Brit]

The island of Ireland is way to small for 10 airports. Dublin is within 3hrs drive from all parts of the country...in the USA people would drive for way more than that to get to an airport. And anyway this page isn’t for politics, I’m sure there are many others out there that are
The more trash I read on here from southeners makes me more determined to avoid using Dublin Airport at all costs.

[A320.b744]

The island of Ireland is way too small for 10 airports. Dublin is within 3hrs drive from all parts of the country...in the USA people would drive for way more than that to get to an airport. And anyway this page isn’t for politics, I’m sure there are many others out there that are

Realistically the island needs three airports - BFS, DUB and either ORK/SNN. The island is simply too big to have just one airport, and poor road infrastructure (particularly in the west of the island) means that driving for 3 hours in Ireland is a lot less comfortable than driving for 3 hours on a US highway.

Furthermore, the fact that the island is composed of two sovereign nations means that there will always be at least two airports - one in both Belfast and Dublin.

[snn20]

Realistically the island needs three airports - BFS, DUB and either ORK/SNN. The island is simply too big to have just one airport, and poor road infrastructure (particularly in the west of the island) means that driving for 3 hours in Ireland is a lot less comfortable than driving for 3 hours on a US highway.

Furthermore, the fact that the island is composed of two sovereign nations means that there will always be at least two airports - one in both Belfast and Dublin.

With the improving road and rail network NOC, WAT, KIR are definitely under threat in the long term. LDY is in the same situo

[CCR]

Realistically the island needs three airports - BFS, DUB and either ORK/SNN. The island is simply too big to have just one airport, and poor road infrastructure (particularly in the west of the island) means that driving for 3 hours in Ireland is a lot less comfortable than driving for 3 hours on a US highway.

Furthermore, the fact that the island is composed of two sovereign nations means that there will always be at least two airports - one in both Belfast and Dublin.

Others view Ireland as an island nation with two jurisdictions and an invisible border. Keep your politics to yourself on this thread..

[owenc]

Reality says otherwise.

[GAZMO]

Don’t know if has been previously mentioned VRN on sale for winter 18/19 starting January

[sealink]

Im just back from NI and chose DUB over BFS for my Milan flights. The FR 2 weekly service from BFS is great to have but when you can pick from 4 daily flights out of DUB it can be an easy choice to head south. Even with the cost of the coach my flights were cheaper from Dublin.

[owenc]

I’ll never head south for a trip to Europe. The 3.5 hour drive is not worth it.

Support your local airport.

[29Alpha]

I think people see the 100 mile headline and try to get down in an hour, try 2 and a half or 3 hours, and yes i stopped for a toilet stop. A canary island trip to get to dub and back isnt worth it plus fuel, car parking etc.....

[sealink]

I will support a " local ' airport but if the flight is only 2 weekly then that doesn't work for me. You can only support it if the flights are available on the days which you need to fly. 1 hr 50 mins on a coach is nothing.

[29Alpha]

1 hr 50 sat next to a porker then another 7hr to usa?, have a nice holiday as that for a starter

[GAZMO]

Interesting comment from poster on Jet2 thread

"There will soon be 3 new destinations to be announced for S19. MAN along with other bases will serve all 3 new destinations"

BFS has three free slots on Wednesdays for summer 19

[BFS BHD]

I see EasyJets Winter 2018/19 flights are going on sale on Thursday. All six aircraft are remaining at BFS all year I think I seen a while back when the 6th aircraft was announced.
Also I think I seen some of the new routes that are starting in June are going to be year round not sure which ones but I think IOM was one.
I would say there will be some increases on current routes to if the 6th aircraft is staying year round. And maybe a new route or two!

[GAZMO]

IOM and Venice are both all year services so I agree maybe a few new routes.

[owenc]

How did Cardiff manage to secure a route with Qatar at only 1.3 million passengers.

[PDXCWL45]

How did Cardiff manage to secure a route with Qatar at only 1.3 million passengers.
Because the government lobbied them for the route, sold it to them as access to Wales and the South West and Wales has strong ties to SE Asia and Australiasia and is an exporting nation. Also no doubt the short runway at BRS helped as the fact that Qatar like capital cities.

[PDXCWL45]

How did Cardiff manage to secure a route with Qatar at only 1.3 million passengers.

And it's 1.45 million passengers now and rising.

[owenc]

Yes, a fairly minuscule number of passengers, given the population of the city. We should be able to secure a Qatar Airways route if Cardiff has done so.

[PDXCWL45]

Yes, a fairly minuscule number of passengers, given the population of the city. We should be able to secure a Qatar Airways route if Cardiff has done so.

From Cardiffs catchment area about 4 million people fly every year 1.6 million from Bristol.

With an ME3 for Belfast i wouldn't be so sure getting one would be easy especially as Northern Ireland has no government at the moment.

[29Alpha]

Listen up people, we can't even hold on to a New York route, never mind a middle eastern one lol

[owenc]

NCL and Cardiff do not have a 30 million passenger hub down the road.

[29Alpha]

NCL and Cardiff do not have a 30 million passenger hub down the road. Manchester is similar distance from Newcastle, Birmingham is another.....

[owenc]

Those locations are 3 hours by train to/from Newcastle. Neither carry 30 million passengers, in particular Birmingham which only has a few Transatlantic flights.

[29Alpha]

Fair point, 2hrs on the train to dublin though

[El Bunto]

With an ME3 for Belfast i wouldn't be so sure getting one would be easy especially as Northern Ireland has no government at the moment.

Surely the perfect opportunity, given how we always moan about clueless politicians messing things up... Strike while the iron's hot!

[MaverickPrime]

Maybe the wrong place to ask this question, but does anyone know why European Air Transport (A300) operates the BFS-EMA DHL service instead of DHL Air UK?

[29Alpha]

Maybe the wrong place to ask this question, but does anyone know why European Air Transport (A300) operates the BFS-EMA DHL service instead of DHL Air UK?
Ever since it has started it has been EAT/ air contractors, maybe an irish contract??