BIRMINGHAM - 6 [Archive]

GayFriendly

28th Jan 2013, 21:17

Sorry, but 11 posts in and we're back on the same treadmill of spotterish wishlists of routes and carriers that in the current economic climate stand some between little and absolutely no chance whatsoever of coming to fruition.

Well said that man!! BHX, for the foreseeable future at least will only ever be home to a few niche long haul services, primarily because it is stuck between LHR and MAN and does not appear to be able to attract sufficient and more importantly consistent demand to fill the front end with high yielding F & J class travellers - if EK can't do it I doubt anyone else can right now. So get over it and if you are that desperate to see a QR 330 or a flight to YYZ or ORD there are plenty of them down at LHR to go gawp at.

Back to the real world and summer '13 is shaping up quite well on the scheduled side after a slow start, with a couple of legacy carriers cautiously upping capacity. Here's a review to summarise recent news.

AF are going to start using 321's on certain rotations
LX mainline equipment reappears on the morning rotation (sadly it does not seem the midday flight is going to come back)
SK up to 6 a week on ARN and introducing 320 on morning CPH rotations in May
ZB new routes to GIB, SPU and BOD plus continuation of FNC, SSH. MUC it seems is going
BE re-introducing French summer routes BES, LRH, EGC, PGF and AVN(reduced frequency on most routes though compared to 2012)
BE to LYS
BM new base and flights to GOT, TLS and LYS - who will win, BM or BE?
FR to PGF - at the expense of BUD?
SN I heard was back to all AR1 ops at one stage but think this has changed again with VO DH8 still being used on some rotations, need to check
EZY continuing with BFS - it would be so nice to see some more of these guys, good to see they have a sales desk now and is it me or their check in area looks very big for a max of four flights a day, here's hoping.....

I would imagine BHX will start to see at some point in the year the new LH loco taking over TXL and DUS although it all seems to have gone quiet on that front. Perhaps that will be 2014?

I can't think of any other major new route announcements at this stage (or even any rumoured) but you never know.....

Navpi

29th Jan 2013, 06:38

here here.....the thread has become a spotters paradise of late.

PS Hanging on to the second city bit is also a tad lame and tedious, airlines have already decided that one and its either LHR or MAN.... makes brummies sound desparate like Stan Colleymore when he describes "second City derbies" and tries to ham them up.....

Eg Villa V WBA etc ....... too right !

hammerb32

29th Jan 2013, 07:23

Navpi - not sure this is the right place for discussion around which is Englands 2nd city ,the size or success of the airport is not a factor that's ever going to be that relevant.

chinapattern

29th Jan 2013, 07:41

Also TK upping to x10 weekly flights.

Regarding MON; wouldn't be too surprised if they dropped MUC, it struck me as an odd route for them when it was first announced.

ATNotts

29th Jan 2013, 08:17

Read on ARD (German TV) text this morning that AF is setting up a new low cost carrier the are calling Hop to operate umpteen European services. Apparently it comes about by merging Britair, Regional and another I can't remember.

It looks like a copy of the LH strategy with Germanwings (can't remember now what they are going to be called either!), but it will be interesting to see if the strategy is to hive off ops from CDG to places which aren't London; or to develop routes from the French regions, such as LYS and TLS, to places like BHX.

I would say if the latter is the strategy, LYS-BHX is quite likely as it puts the knife into two non French (UK) airlines already scrapping on the route.

insuindi

29th Jan 2013, 09:54

Air France / Hop!

Hop! seems similar to the Germanwings (they will keep that name, but grow and include the Bombardier AC op by Eurowings) - but if you look at it in detail, they are actually supposed to feed in CDG and ORY, whilst routes strong on yield from the regions are to remain with AF mainline....

According to this route map, BHX is not touched by the changes for now . http://corporate.airfrance.com/fileadmin...p_press_kit.pdf (http://corporate.airfrance.com/fileadmin/dossiers/documents/press_kits/Hop_press_kit.pdf)

I would be surprised to see LYS-BHX by Hop!, more likely a codeshare with BE.

insuindi

29th Jan 2013, 09:56

PS: Regarding Germanwings on TXL and DUS: GErmanwings will take over those operations incrementally, they started switching the HAM routes to Germanwings (even though BHX is still Eurowings for LH rather than Germanwings), DUS is the last base to be swtiched somewhen during 2014.

BRUpax

29th Jan 2013, 10:56

Hmm, as a user of the DUS-BHX route I wonder if Eurowings eventually operating for Germanwings will see a downgrading of the product? That will be a great pity if it does. There was a time when we still had a choice (between LC and Legacy carriers) on short haul routes. Sadly that's rapidly fading away now, and like it or not many travellers are being "forced" to fly LC or walk! :) I do understand that the younger generation are quite happy being treated like cattle as long as it's cheap (they don't know any different). Unfortunately oldies like me need enjoy a few basic comforts in our old age. :O

nigel osborne

29th Jan 2013, 11:07

Gayfriendly..

Re the real World.. and Air France A321s at BHX..

well its just 2 rotations planned at present during the Spring Fair only, summer is showing as 3 A318s.

AT NOTTS.

Andrew am confused, you start off taking a swipe at those talking of possible planned routes... then mention the new AF airline Hop might look at BHX from Lyon, Toulouse..that not a wish list too ??

The fact that they couldn't even fill at 48 seater CR2 from Lyon, and that both BE and BMR are starting both routes from BHX..surely means theres not a cat in hells chance ? :ugh:

Nigel

insuindi

29th Jan 2013, 11:13

@BRUpax

It will be Germanwings op. by Eurowings.So the product will change.

If you scroll down on the linked page below, you can see the new fare categories and included services: The 'New Germanwings' - About Germanwings (http://www.germanwings.com/en/The-new-Germanwings.htm)

The Germanwings "Smart Fare" is only slightly more expensive, but incl. onboard catering, luggage, and most importantly, more legroom. That's also the booking class you get when you book Germanwings flights through lufthansa.com rather than germanwings.com.

ATNotts

29th Jan 2013, 11:42

Nigel

Andrew am confused, you start off taking a swipe at those talking of possible planned routes... then mention the new AF airline Hop might look at BHX from Lyon, Toulouse..that not a wish list too ??

Not quite the same and perhaps I didn't phrase very carefully! What I was conjecting is that Hop! might think about muscling in on the route, which clearly won't sustain 2 carriers, let alone three. With their deep (French government) pockets they would be able to sustain the losses longer than either BMIR or FlyBe - who for financial reasons would almost certainly blink first.

The last thing I would wish for is a third carrier on BHX-LYS!

BRUpax

29th Jan 2013, 12:35

Thanks for that info and link insuindi. Interesting and perhaps not so bad after all. Not many miles away from the Virgin America product. I'll be interested to see what the DUS-BHX "standard" fare will be.

Daza

29th Jan 2013, 13:21

AF operated twice a day with a 48 seat aircraft and loads were generally good 70%+ and fares were high (I'm sure OP will confirm this). I think it was Brit Air (who operated the service on behalf of AF) removing the 48 seat CR2 from their LYS base that caused the service to end. If BMIR operate LYS as their last rotation of the day after GOT and TLS then this would be more advantageous to travelers, this of course would be too simple and BMIR have probably planned LYS for a midday departure :ugh::{, we will have to wait and see when the schedule comes out on the 5th of Feb.
The Flybe flight will most likely carry an AF flight code.
Daza

PPRuNe Pop

29th Jan 2013, 13:46

You have a forum for your questions and, hopefully, your answers. But if you continue to make a nusiance of yourself on the main forums you may find that you are no longer welcome on PPRuNe. Already, there are daft posts, which I have deleted so you are close to being a deletion yourself.

PPRuNe as I have said many times, and other mods have said many times, is here for your enjoyment. If you want to play stupid you will be treated as stupid. Get the message?

We have better things to do with our time but we choose to make your days on PPRuNe more enjoyable. So, the short answer is don't push us too far or you will wish you hadn't.

AA&R mods

Daza

29th Jan 2013, 14:28

Navpi wrote here here.....the thread has become a spotters paradise of late.

PS Hanging on to the second city bit is also a tad lame and tedious, airlines have already decided that one and its either LHR or MAN.... makes brummies sound desparate like Stan Colleymore when he describes "second City derbies" and tries to ham them up.....

Eg Villa V WBA etc ....... too right !

Why do you insist on mentioning other airports in the Birmingham thread? You mention Manchester and Manchester Airport in the Birmingham thread all the time! We realise that you have an interest and passion about an airport and city in the North West of England, so why not comment on that thread? Remember the moderators said stick to comments about Birmingham Airport.:ugh:
Daza

justplanecrazy84

29th Jan 2013, 15:56

Well said Daza! And since when have airlines dictated the geography/history of a country??? :ugh:

bhx bod

29th Jan 2013, 18:52

Hi friends,
just heard on local news that due to Birmingham city council needing to find
millions of £s to maintain services one possibility could be to sell major assets
to raise much needed money.
BHX is one of the assets mentioned as well as the NEC(or parts of).
With the airport well into it's expansion plans I wonder how much of this could be a factor when looking for a buyer.
It will be interesting to see how things pan out with this one!

OltonPete

29th Jan 2013, 19:54

Daza

Lyon base fare was around £140 return for economy going up to about £450 the day before departure.

Loads were pretty constant over the years with around 60% load factor in deepest winter and 75-80% high summer, which averages out as you say around 70%. BHX I think was not the last 50 seat CRJ service from Lyon but one of.

GF/Nigel

I have found some more Air France A321 flights: -

Friday 8th x 2 Morning and afternoon

Sunday 10th - evening

Friday 15th - Morning & afternoon and LH 321's on LH959, 954 & 958 plus the lunchtime Swiss operates!!!

Sunday 24/2 - Lunchtime

LH 321's Wed 6/2 lunch, Friday 8/2 lunch, Monday 11/2 lunch, Wed 13/2 lunch, Thursday 14/2 night-stop, as mentioned above Fri 15/2 lunch and night-stop.

Swiss - 16/2 - All three, yes three flights on the A320.

Swiss

Next three nights showing as Swiss European RJ100's and then Helvetic operating both services!

Air France

As Nigel said showing as 3 x A318 in summer at present

Brussels back to two flybe (inc night-stop), Tyrolean and two x SN RJ100's.

EI Regional

Also from June there are three extra EI flights on the ATR72 wherever they may end up going but Dublin could be a red-herring.

I have to say that some of these upgrades are annual with Spring Fair and the half-term break shortly afterwards but the AF A321's are new but you only have to look at the load factors to know that certain flights could see frequent sell-outs.

Pete

Daza

29th Jan 2013, 20:06

As always OP very informative. Thanks! :ok:
Daza

call100

31st Jan 2013, 10:48

Nice aerial view in this video (http://www.itv.com/news/central/2013-01-30/almost-quarter-of-a-million-new-jobs-potentially-created-with-extended-runway-in-birmingham/)of the runway works so far, if anyone is interested. The article that comes with it seems to be the usual promotional stuff.
Apologies if it's been posted previously...:O

EI-A330-300

31st Jan 2013, 11:54

EI Regional

Also from June there are three extra EI flights on the ATR72 wherever they may end up going but Dublin could be a red-herring.

I think they will stay on DUB, EI have retimed the mainline A320 flight back to 06.30 dep from DUB between Mar-June until the regional start up to allow full T/A connections. You can be sure that the 07.15 from BHX and 09.00 from DUB will stay at least. I know there is talk of a new route but that will be from that airport into BHX, however at early stages.

Planeaddict

31st Jan 2013, 12:06

Nice aerial view in this video of the runway works so far, if anyone is interested.

I've seen that video, don't know how old it is though so it may have changed now. Would be interesting to see where they have gotten to now.

insuindi

31st Jan 2013, 14:36

@OltonPete

thanks for the informative listing.

Re Swiss: LX425 on 9FEB is now op. by LH B737-5 (morning of same day on LX A320). Numerous further Feb dates with A319/320 3 daily.

OltonPete

31st Jan 2013, 20:12

insuindi

Thank you for the update, quite impressive the number of Airbus flights, in fact the half-term weekend 16/17/2 is now all Airbus.

See your point re Monarch Munich, it was definitely not twice a week in April when it was first released either.

flybe

Aberdeen in the summer has reverted to BHX based timings per the flybe website, the first leaving at 06.50, next 10.50, then 14.55 and finally 18.55.

I make that ten based flybe, plus the SN DH8D and no doubt the spare 195?

New night-stop additions include BM and EI Regional, nine Monarch which could make 40 night-stoppers if Olympic Holidays has an aircraft based although with the summer IT flights they are never all on the ground at the same time.

EI-A330-300

I agree with your reasoning behind the first out but I still have my doubts about at least one of the other two AT72 Dublin flights. Last summers figures I think were about 70-80% load factor depending on the month, which does not indicate a great need for extra seats unless they are spoiling for a fight.

Pete

GayFriendly

1st Feb 2013, 08:42

Thanks for your 2013 summary and updates, as ever very informative. I really feel some positivity in the air at BHX this year for scheduled flights, yes as has been debated before, there are gaps in European destinations but it's good to see capacity growth on key routes (I forgot to mention TK now at 10 weekly in my previous post) and you never know there could still be more announcements for summer, although getting more unlikely as time marches on. Shame about TS but at least they still fly to BHX, although consolidating to just LGW, MAN and GLA must be something they (Canadian Affair) are thinking about unless they up BHX frequency, i'm sure it was 2 weekly a few years ago?

So, 40 night stop aircraft, impressive. I have counted 84 scheduled destinations from BHX this summer (high season Jun-Sep) which is the highest number served since 2008 when there were 90 (this of course was FR base launch year and when WW had 8 based units). Compared to last year we have lost LIS, PRG, DND, BUD but of course have gained LYS, TLS, SPU, BOD and GOT (this could have operated last summer, I can't remember!)

I am hanging on for BM to release their schedules for LYS to see how they stack up against BE, would like to fly both! It's a great city for a weekend away with amazing food and normally it's hot and sunny over the summer.

EI are up to something? I wonder if there could be a new destination (for them) on the cards? BHD? Kerry? Or a head to head with FR on the DUB route?

mart901

1st Feb 2013, 11:01

Any idea what this new EIR route may be? It does seem like overkill having 3x ATR and 3x A320 on the DUB route, albeit great frequency. Was wondering about BHD or maybe NOC instead of SNN based.....or just increasing NOC because last summer it was 90% + L/F.

Daza

1st Feb 2013, 13:30

GayFriendly wrote Compared to last year we have lost LIS, PRG, DND, BUD but of course have gained LYS, TLS, SPU, BOD and GOT

You forgot that scheduled services new for Summer 2013 are Stockholm and Gibraltar and on the charter flight front new are Preveza, Marrakech and I think Hurgada also returns this Summer. (I'm not sure if TCX operated it last summer)?
Daza

Planeaddict

1st Feb 2013, 14:55

That video showing aerial imagery of the runway works was filmed in November 2012 for those wondering.

Skipness One Echo

1st Feb 2013, 16:22

Our passenger growth could create in excess of 243,000 jobs in the region according to a new report by the West Midlands Economic Forum.

– Paul Kehoe, Birmingham Airport’s CEO
I believe it's the Ducksy algorithm he's using to generate that figure.
©Ryanair Analytics

RealFish

1st Feb 2013, 17:12

LIS, PRG, BUD

Destinations to capital cities that would surely raise Brum's profile in those respective countries.

What were the loads / yields like on those services last year?

chinapattern

1st Feb 2013, 17:33

Haven't a clue about yields but the loads for August 2012 were:

LIS - 86%
PRG - 91%
BUD - 92%

Obviously peak season but generally I believe the loads were pretty good. The problem is finding the right airline.

CSA have tried BHX-PRG before and pulled out and they seem to be shrinking all the time. Wizz would be the obvious choice for both PRG and BUD if it weren't for their LTN base. As for LIS, BHX didn't appear in Ryanairs proposed new base which would leave us with TAP; they're MAN route seems to be doing well, the fly LGW too which means they look to places other than LHR and as a member of Star Alliance their could be some back up there.

Having said all that, I think all three routes could work well for MON; LIS and PRG would definitely have been a better bet than MUC.

FR-

1st Feb 2013, 19:04

With regards to LIS, BHX best hope is for easyJet to take it on from its LIS base.

fr-

OltonPete

1st Feb 2013, 20:39

BMI Regional have loaded the Lyon and Gothenburg into GDS.

Not bookable on their website as yet but not particularly good news for BHX re Lyon, as it shadows the flybe service.

Toulouse will be the first out but not yet loaded with Lyon departing BHX 11.45 (85 mins after flybe) arriving back 15.35 BM1431/2.

Gothenburg departs 16.30 arriving back 21.15 BM1441/2

FR- - Hopefully

RealFish/chinapattern

Prague was probably the best out of the three with load factors very rarely dipping below 75%. Yields I imagine were soft at times, I managed to fly on Baby for £167 for four in the Easter Holidays but this was several years ago.

Lisbon the second time round seemed to have much more expensive fares compare to when it first operated.

Budapest I considered flying on last October/November, again in the school hols and the fare was £75 return and that I would say was about £20-£30 higher than term-time fares and this probably explains why it was chopped despite great load factors. However I can't say I keep track as much as I have done in the past of FR fares due to the nature of their website.

Pete

Daza

2nd Feb 2013, 11:08

The new Birmingham BMIR flights are now loaded into Amadeus

Mon-Fri BHX-TLS 0700 0950 BM1421 ER4
Mon-Fri TLS-BHX 1020 1115 BM1422 ER4
Sun BHX-TLS 1145 1435 BM1421 ER4
Sun TLS-BHX 1505 1600 BM1422 ER4

Mon-Fri BHX-LYS 1145 1415 BM1431 ER4
Mon-Fri LYS-BHX 1450 1535 BM1432 ER4
Sun LYS-BHX 1440 1525 BM1431 ER4
Sun BHX-LYS 1555 1830 BM1432 (W pattern MAN based aircraft) ER4

Mon-Fri and Sun BHX-GOT 1630 1935 BM1441 ER4
Mon-Fri and Sun GOT-BHX 2005 2115 BM1442 ER4

I was hoping for a Sat TLS flight (all accomodation in Southern France changes on Saturday) for a our family holiday and of course they have planned LYS at a similar time to the new Flybe service.:ugh:
Still three routes returning! :ok: Maybe a tour operator will utilise the aircraft on Saturday? As Inghams plan to do BRS-VRO on Saturdays.
Daza

GayFriendly

2nd Feb 2013, 16:43

Don't want to be negative before the first flight has even taken off but can't believe that two flights to LYS will work going within just over an hour of each other. Who will be first to blink? I think BE had already planned the route but were wrong footed when BM made their somewhat surprise announcement about BHX routes

chinapattern

2nd Feb 2013, 16:51

As if often the case with BHX, double or nothing!

midland_pilot

2nd Feb 2013, 17:36

Not a lot of margin for error there - 1 or two airframes?

Daza

2nd Feb 2013, 18:43

GayFriendly wrote ...can't believe that two flights to LYS will work going within just over an hour of each other

Chinapattern wrote As if often the case with BHX, double or nothing!

I have to agree! Absolutely crazy! :yuk: Which makes me agree with you Gayfriendly, one or the other knew of the schedule being planned. By the end of the Summer Birmingham could once again be without a Lyon service if both struggle.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Midland_pilot wrote Not a lot of margin for error there - 1 or two airframes?
One I believe though they do pride themselves on being the UKs most punctual airline :} (see their website)

insuindi

5th Feb 2013, 16:26

Have various bookings over next few months on BHX-HAM.

Today received an email from LH in German, subject: "Important information about your flight to Hamburg" advising me that flights from HAM will start to change to the new 4U-concept as of the end of March. Whether that means BHX-HAM will be changed then, or later, is not clear from email.

fjencl

5th Feb 2013, 17:07

There facebook page states.......

Watch this space for an exciting announcement soon to the Cello fleet, our second aircraft is on its way.........

:D Well Done :D

crewmeal

6th Feb 2013, 05:44

It's a shame they don't go for a 737-700 or an extended range 319, then their options would be better and could fly further. The 146 must really restrict their business.

chaps2011

6th Feb 2013, 07:13

Probably cost as a B737/A319 will be a lot more than a written down 146/RJ

Chaps

Planeaddict

6th Feb 2013, 17:35

This visited today, not sure why yet.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/575340_482843645112920_1087821983_n.jpg

Centre cities

6th Feb 2013, 18:58

Chester diversion I think due crosswinds, has happened before, went to Bremen.

Centre cities

OltonPete

9th Feb 2013, 21:32

Some changes

flybe seem to be removing a 195 and sending it to EDI with a 175 coming the other way. This means the first EDI departure from BHX goes from 118 seats to 88, as does the 14.45 departure and the 18.35 departure.

A bit of a surprise considering the fares charged and load factor. This will be similar to the Glasgow capacity but EDI carries several thousand more pax a month.

The one 195 also goes BHX-BHD-BHX-JER-BHX-MXP-BHX-BHD-BHX on a Monday and Friday from June. Increase in utilization is obviously on the menu.

One 175 goes BHX-GLA-BHX-LYS-BHX-GLA-BHX-GLA-BHX.

Still ten sort of based and the flybe/SN BRU aircraft, which leads me on nicely to Brussels.

This has changed yet again with SN2047/8 now showing as Tyrolean along with SN2049/40. SN2050/37/38/49 flybe leading just 2045/6 as the RJ100.

Pete

Planeaddict

10th Feb 2013, 10:26

Is TS still going to remain a once-weekly A310?

bazzab68

11th Feb 2013, 15:20

Aer Arann extends Aer Lingus deal until 2022 - RTÉ News (http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013/0211/367204-aer-arann-extends-aer-lingus-deal-until-2022/)

Basically having a night stop Dublin using the ATR and making DUB 6 daily!

Every little helps

Barry

Skipness One Echo

11th Feb 2013, 15:36

Is TS still going to remain a once-weekly A310?
What does the Air Transat website say?

spentaylor

11th Feb 2013, 15:51

Planeaddict - As Skipness rightly said, check their website. Alternatively you could check your previous posts as a mere 16 days ago in thread 5, after presumably already having checked their website for yourself, you stated:

"Air Transat have released a timetable outlining changes for their transatlantic services for Summer 2013. Comparison is July & August 2013 vs the same period in 2012.

Toronto – Birmingham Airbus A310 replaces A330 in S12, 1 weekly service."

What on earth do you think will have changed in a fortnight :ugh:

StoneyBridge Radar

11th Feb 2013, 17:06

Round and round and round we go... :mad::ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

Laasjet

11th Feb 2013, 18:12

Be easy on him.

He is either an intentional irritant or one of those people who has nothing to say but feels that he must be noticed.

I think that it is called care in the community!

ZULUBOY

11th Feb 2013, 19:44

Can somebody help with a query. Looking to book BHX-TXL return in August, flying on a Saturday coming back on a Sunday.

Do they not fly direct at the weekends after a certain date this year? Can't find flights in August. The Lufthansa timetable shows direct flights 7 days a week. I e-mailed Lufthansa and they said they don't fly direct from BHX to TXL at all!!!!

insuindi

11th Feb 2013, 20:20

LH reduces the route over summer to 6/7 and 5/7, most likely to fly more lucrative summer charters ex TXL. 7/7 back in late summer, then all op. by A319 atm. Timings of flights seem to shift around as well, seems pretty fluid atm. With this route switching to 4U somewhen later this year I'd expect this state of fluency to continue.

If ou book and you get a change to times or of operating carrier to 4U, LH provides full refunds as I understand from other online communities.

ZULUBOY

12th Feb 2013, 19:16

Thanks Insuindi

chinapattern

13th Feb 2013, 07:57

Saw this on airliners.net; was hesitant to post at first but I thought it might be of interest to those of us who will read it for what it is.

BHX will be launched with a daily frequency using a split schedule with the B787s. Main target markets are ATQ, DEL, ISB, LHE, BKK, PEK, HKG, MNL, JED, DXB, KUL, CMB, DAC and BOM. In order to ensure that PAK, BOM and ATQ in particular are connected in both directions a minimum of 3 times per week, a split schedule is required.

Expected are four flights dep DOH at 0200 and three flights at 0750 each respectively.

GayFriendly

13th Feb 2013, 12:16

Well, proposed timings and a possible schedule are an advance on previous vague rumours. However the fact that there is no actual date mentioned and the plan is to use the 787 means that QR are not an imminent arrival at BHX...at least we are still allegedly on the radar though!

Planeaddict

13th Feb 2013, 14:36

Interesting trivia there. I saw that thread on Airliners.net and numerous people have pointed out that QR don't even serve MAN with 787s. Don't know where that user is getting the info from but good on BHX if it's true.

justplanecrazy84

13th Feb 2013, 15:59

Has anyone got a link to the thread on airliners.net?

Skipness One Echo

13th Feb 2013, 16:02

In order to ensure that PAK, BOM and ATQ in particular are connected in both directions a minimum of 3 times per week, a split schedule is required.
Does this seem like a profitable market? I only as as Emirates are already heavily in this market and not growing by much at all, certainly in comparison with other UK stations. Would Qatar really come to BHX focussed on low yield South Asian transfer traffic, with a 787?

Laasjet

13th Feb 2013, 16:06

Eh! Try airliners.net.

nigel osborne

13th Feb 2013, 16:36

China Pattern,

Re Qatar and BHX.

Seems someone may know a bit more looking at the comments re a split schedule. However seems little else has changed. Qatar ordered 60 B787s and 5 so far delivered and now grounded.

It entirely depends where BHX are in the pecking order for a service as some are not due now till at least 2016 I believe.

Added complication since Al Bakars comments is that they have now joined One World..who don't do Birmingham apart from a Fly Be code share.

Theres also chance if they do not commit soon with a date, Emirates might spoil there party next year with a 3rd service although thats probably on the back burner now looking at current loads.

I know someone who works for Qatar had heard a November start date, but no recent evidence to back this up yet.:confused:

Nigel

OltonPete

13th Feb 2013, 16:52

SOE

Probably not ideally but it would provide a boost in terms of "bums on seats" for a start-up service, which should be sustainable in the short-term until QR get a foothold although I realise that is a gamble for a regional airport when the likes of Gatwick failed. Another problem I was told with the ATQ connection is that the service to DOH is filling anyway with BHX's help.

However I (like others) think BHX-DOH-ATQ will be well supported and it is up to QR to get the yield management right but whether there will be enough business traffic paying viable fares I don't know.

EK's stagnation co-incided with TK's increase and at the moment it is difficult to judge whether there is room for another Middle Eastern carrier but I suppose the passenger figures suggests not at this moment in time.

Also QR would need to give the service time similar to how Turkish have acted, they supported some terrible loads but all that seems to be behind them although having a continually growing mega-hub does help somewhat

Pete

Planeaddict

13th Feb 2013, 16:58

Here's the thread on airliners.net: When Is Qatar Airways Coming To Birmingham (UK)? — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5688201/)

I don't see why they wouldn't go for the A332 instead of the 787.

nigel osborne

13th Feb 2013, 17:35

Planeaddict;

Do they have any A330s free, not sure they do ??

So would have to chop somewhere else and not sure we are that important..hopefully they will prove me wrong ?

Nigel

chinapattern

13th Feb 2013, 17:54

Seems someone may know a bit more looking at the comments re a split schedule.

Nigel/Olten Pete; agree everything you say.

The main reason I posted was that it did strike me as something slightly more positive.

However, the fact remains that QR have been coming to BHX since 2006 and they are still not here so you really have to wonder if you can trust anything Al Baker says. For example, one minute he says they were not joining OneWorld and then a week later said the complete opposite! Also, notice how it suddenly went quiet on the BHX front when it was announced they were joining the alliance?

The other issue for me is that when they went twice daily at MAN they made no secret of their intention to entice passengers from the Midlands and as they're now down to x10 weekly it seems they bit off a bit more than they could chew in an effort to keep up with EK/EY.

But trying to remain positive, would any of the two proposed timings result in an AM departure from BHX?....(i'm useless at figuring these things out) Was wondering if that could give QR a slight advantage providing off course this info does turn out to be accurate.

Planeaddict

13th Feb 2013, 18:28

Maybe they'd have a few A330s if they started sending A346s to MAN on a regular basis.

It depends how high BHX is on their priority list whether they'd operate a 787 on the route or not but in reality I can't see them going to BHX first where they've been operating at MAN for many years. If only there was a way where we could get some confirmation.

Planeaddict

13th Feb 2013, 18:33

But trying to remain positive, would any of the two proposed timings result in an AM departure from BHX?....(i'm useless at figuring these things out) Was wondering if that could give QR a slight advantage providing off course this info does turn out to be accurate.

A 2am departure from DOH would result in a 7am arrival at BHX and a 9-10am departure from BHX. So the answer is yes.

OltonPete

13th Feb 2013, 18:33

chinapattern

The 02.00 ex Doha would arrive BHX early morning and depart about 9-10am arriving back in Doha around 7-8pm local their time. If this happened tomorrow it would connect with Amritsar, Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai, Hyderabad, Goa, Bangalore, Ahmedabad, Kochi, Islamabad, Lahore, Peshawar, Bangkok, Dammam, Dubai, Bahrain, Yangoon, Kuala Lumpur and Colombo.

An afternoon departure from BHX would connect with Melbourne, Maldives, Mahe, Jo'burg, Shanghai, Singapore, Bangkok, Delhi, Narita, Dhaka, Nairobi, Perth, Hong Kong. Seoule and Manila plus others.

Most are covered by EK, TK, KL, LH and LX but I could see QR eventually taking a share.

Peter

insuindi

16th Feb 2013, 10:40

Monarch has reduced BHX-MUC to 3/7 (Sunday flights are gone) for the May-October period.

OltonPete

16th Feb 2013, 12:35

insuindi

There are lots a small changes going on at present, Sunday has seen quite a few changes with GIB moving from Saturday and then is out all day 06.35 back at 21.35.

Rome changes to morning, the second AGP after ACE.

This explains how they have added an extra SSH on a Saturday by sifting GIB to Sunday.

Flybe

Three daily on Amsterdam in the week

SAS

Mainly 738's

FR

Extra Malaga a week in August and Faro I believe but will confirm

Pete

ssflyer

16th Feb 2013, 21:51

"Yangoon"
QR have increased their flights to Yangon (RGN) from 3 flights a week to daily as they have been filling their onward 319ER.
Myanmar is seen as the "must see" destination and currently they are the only European/ME carrier flying into Yangon.
Their 09.40 LHR flight connects, as would a BHX morning flight, with less than a 2 hour connection in Doha.
(maybe EK will jump in next)

chinapattern

17th Feb 2013, 10:13

TK are in the process off negotiating existing bi-laterals with the Indian government to increase services; if all goes well BOM and DEL will go double daily and there are plans to add five more Indian destinations including ATQ. Would be good for BHX to be linked to ATQ with a legacy carrier.

compton3bravo

17th Feb 2013, 12:03

A bit off aviation topic but if you can visit Burma soon do so before it gets busy again. It is a wonderful country and the people are so friendly and welcoming. Was there end of 2011 but on a cruise!

ssflyer

17th Feb 2013, 15:55

I will keep it on aviation topic-I have been visiting for 15 years and have flown some 50+ sectors in ATR's with most of the airlines in the country-loads of fun flying into tiny exWW2 airstrips.Great people,lovely country & I hope that QR start up from BHX before my next trip in early 2014 so I can try the airline and the connection to RGN.

Planeaddict

17th Feb 2013, 16:14

Went down BHX today to see someone off - they do need an indoor viewing area which both passengers & non-passengers can use.

And regarding the runway works, couldn't really make out much progress but I'm sure they would be getting somewhere.

ATNotts

17th Feb 2013, 17:05

Planeaddict

Whilst I absolutely agree it would be good to have such a viewing area, that just isn't what we do in the UK - look at all the indoor viewing areas, or land side terminal views there are in the UK - I'm struggling to think of many, certainly any which are any use.

Contrast with Germany and Switzerland.

If BHX has the money available to spend, I would say there are plenty of more worthwhile projects that could be undertaken to improve the passenger experience.

Planeaddict

17th Feb 2013, 17:54

ATNotts

If you remember, before they merged the two terminals together, there was an area upstairs (which is now part of departures) where you could view aircraft from the windows - I remember them being quite crowded. I know the aviation experience was very underused.

On another note, it appears Air Transat which was operating a flight from Calgary enroute to LGW diverted into BHX this morning. It was heading towards the south then circled back to BHX looking at Flight Radar.

Businesstraveller

18th Feb 2013, 14:34

I remember the original proper viewing area at BHX from the 80's. As I recall it was on the 1st/2nd floor, was long and narrow with a very 80's black and orange colour scheme. The room may well still be there, but presumably was rendered useless when the terminal was expanded towards the apron.

It's a pity there's no such facility available now. I remember going with the family to events at the NEC and my dad taking me on Maglev to the viewing gallery for a bit when we had had enough of the NEC. Happy days...

ATNotts

18th Feb 2013, 17:27

there was an area upstairs (which is now part of departures) where you could view aircraft from the windows

You're right, but I think you'll find that was essentially the connection between the two terminals, which, if it hadn't been glazed front and back would have been pretty dingy. The effect of providing a viewing area was more an accident of architecture than a deliberate attempt to provide a veiwing area, and that spotted glass made it awful to look through, and impossible to photograph through!

Bring back the buffet in the old terminal (that's the 1939 one) but leave out the terrible catering. Planeaddict, you won't remember that!!! :=

OltonPete

18th Feb 2013, 17:47

Source: CAA

Without snow closures these would have probably been up: -

2013 496324 (plus Enfidha to be added) - rolling year 8911205 +3.8%
2012 501583
2011 522765
2010 521185
2009 561604 :ooh:

ATM's 5391 -4.1% Rolling year 83830 +.4

Some of the routes look poor but various reasons for this, mainly reduced frequency of course.

Pete

OltonPete

18th Feb 2013, 17:51

Any ideas?

Reported that fares are being loaded into GDS.

As far as I can see Finnair don't normally offer anything to BHX although in theory the BE/BA Dusseldorf is possible as an alternative to the usual Star and Skyteam offering I think.

Pete

nigel osborne

19th Feb 2013, 07:54

Planeaddict.

1. Runway extension work... they are now laying the concrete base for the road, very slow process.

Also digging out a new carriageway close to the old clock pub. This forms part of the dedicated lane for centro into the airport.

2. BHX viewing. Unfortunately UK airports are all about making a profit. The viewing facility at BHX,had many of the views blocked by the new pier. It was often pretty deserted towards the end,and cost more to keep open and didn't make anything.

If there was big demand and such a facility could make money they would open one.Sadly I think those days are over.

Nigel

Planeaddict

19th Feb 2013, 08:58

Bring back the buffet in the old terminal (that's the 1939 one) but leave out the terrible catering. Planeaddict, you won't remember that!!! :=

I certainly will not!

Runway extension work... they are now laying the concrete base for the road, very slow process.

Also digging out a new carriageway close to the old clock pub. This forms part of the dedicated lane for centro into the airport.

So laying the concrete base for the road, is that going to take the most time? From what I have read, the A45 diversion will be done by July/August time. As for the runway, it'll be completed by autumn but operational next year.

BHX viewing. Unfortunately UK airports are all about making a profit. The viewing facility at BHX,had many of the views blocked by the new pier. It was often pretty deserted towards the end,and cost more to keep open and didn't make anything.

If there was big demand and such a facility could make money they would open one.Sadly I think those days are over.

Yeah - I remember a while back someone had an idea of a viewing area in Sheldon Country Park but got rejected. I think somewhere near the runway at the end of the Long Stay Car Park would work as a special facility, or somewhere near that TriStar Hotel. As with inside, unless there is a suitable area which is good for viewing, without the pier blocking most views, it probably won't happen. It makes sense why they closed it now.

Laasjet

19th Feb 2013, 18:04

Nigel

It's probably best to ignore the ramblings of this Plane Addict character as many of us on this forum do.

He doesn't make sense and serves only as an irritant.

David

mart901

19th Feb 2013, 22:02

BHX-DUB

Just looking at Ryanair's schedule going forwards and I'm struggling to see how they will stand up to 6 daily rotations from Aer Lingus. If your not an early bird and 0755 is no use to you then your next option is 1650 (what happened to the rest of the day!), next option 2225 which doesn't hit DUB till 2330. Its perhaps good for day returns, but coming back from DUB at 2035 is rather late for business users, between 1700 and 2030 Aer Lingus will offer 3 options back.
The bargain hungry customer will always put up with a certain amount time wise but they don't seem to be helping themselves.

nigel osborne

20th Feb 2013, 12:04

Laasjet,

Yes must admit a bit baffled by Planeaddicts comments, not quite sure the points hes trying to make ?

Nigel

BHX5DME

20th Feb 2013, 12:22

Nigel

There is a new building going up to the right of the Tristar Hotel which would make an excellent viewing platform ?

No one including you has mentioned it !

Any idea what it is ??

BHX5DME

Planeaddict

20th Feb 2013, 13:35

not quite sure the points hes trying to make ?

I'm not trying to make a specific point - I'm just offering my views. Don't see the problem.

And BHX5DME, I could answer that if satellite imagery showed a new building to the right of the TriStar hotel but those images appear to be old.

getonittt

20th Feb 2013, 18:51

There is a new building going up to the right of the Tristar Hotel which would make an excellent viewing platform ?

No one including you has mentioned it !

Any idea what it is ??

An airport electricity substation.

Guest 112233

20th Feb 2013, 21:01

Generalised phrases like

"There is a new building going up to the right of the Tristar Hotel which would make an excellent viewing platform ?"

Do not really convey the context of the situation at all - detail is everything - Scale, how far, what size from what perspective + a snap from a phone (if you are not in imminent danger of being shot) - I'm not being ironic.

I suspect from the wording that it's part of the new tower/ATC complex but context & detail is needed, otherwise it seems like "Kite Flying"

In all honesty as a SLF (Who has flown an aeroplane) - Please advise the poster to google BHX on a suitable browser will help.

For the professionals please be patient. - For the "watchers" and we can be useful, please provide a positive feedback, it's what you are paid for.

In JB I'm as bad as the rest, but as long as it's not a wind up, please cut some slack (Yes I miss Plot-dropper, Slott spotter or what ever he/she was called on another thread) - It was "Fun" to read but I suspect that the quality of the thread discussion (NB Jobs) was damaged.

CAT III

GayFriendly

20th Feb 2013, 21:08

All quite confusing......flights are bookable on the KM website, a range of fare options are available (Promo, Econmy Saver etc), BHX appears on their drop down list of scheduled destinations and these flights have a 20KG baggage limit and in flight service as per their existing scheduled flights to LGW, MAN. However, a press release on the KM homepage clearly states that these are charter flights (to seven UK regional airports this summer including BHX) and when you get to the final booking screen flights are listed as 'Air Malta Charter Flight'. So is it in all but name really a scheduled flight, the only difference being there is no business class on offer? Come to think of it isn't that what in effect TOM and TCX flights are aswell? The old style BHX online scheduled timetable used to include TOM flights.

Whatever, it's nice to see KM back, twice a week and in daylight hours!

chinapattern

21st Feb 2013, 09:56

Taken from the BHX photo blog; hope this clears things up a bit.

Air Malta are to increase their Birmingham service to twice weekly for the summer 2013 season and move the Tuesday service. These flights operate as a quasi scheduled service - while many of the seats are taken by Tour Operators they are also bookable direct via the Air Malta site

But like you say, nice to have them back. And on a side note I think their new colour scheme is fantastic.

call100

21st Feb 2013, 10:09

@ Planeaddict - I'm not trying to make a specific point - I'm just offering my views. Don't see the problem.

There is no problem, the forum seems to have gotten a little stuffy in some areas of late. If people knew how to edit their ignore lists they wouldn't have to try and be superior.

I remember a few years ago that someone was enquiring about the old 'Skyways' restaurant, in the Elmdon terminal, to use as a spotters/visitors area....No idea what happened over that, but it would have made a good site...
I'm not into the spotting thing personally, but in all my years at bhx I found them to all be decent people...

Guest 112233

21st Feb 2013, 10:45

I have to agree with your comments but I realise that I too, have been guilty of "Historic reminiscences" on this thread.

It all stems from those "Let's go watch the plane(s)" Sundays that was about all that the rate payers got for their money, in days long past.

We all have to remember, that we a discussing the elements of operation of companies now.

CAT III

Hotel Tango

21st Feb 2013, 10:53

What a lot of airports in the UK (with a few exceptions) seem to forget is that it is not just the plane spotters who like to spend time at airports. Joe Public and his kids love it too. Provide decent facilities (with reasonably priced parking charges) and airports can provide cost effective spectators facilities. When one considers the excellent facilities provided by such airports as Amsterdam, Zurich, Frankfurt (and in fact the majority of German airports), it's amazing that no such facilities exist at either LHR or LGW. BHX has a number of potential spectator spots but I suspect that they just don't care.

ATNotts

21st Feb 2013, 11:55

Hotel Tango

You're right, and what is really ironic is that spotting and general interest in aviation is probably higher in the UK than any other European country, yet in the UK the airport operators, and the authorities generally (in the name of security) just seem to want to put barriers (both metaphorical and actual) in the way of the general public, many of whom have to suffer the inconvenience of living close to major airports and would welcome getting something in return.

I believe it is down to the profit imperitive that exists within the UK, to a greater degree than it does in other European countries, where public service enjoys a higher priority.

Whatever, we're in the UK, and stuck with it!

call100

21st Feb 2013, 13:04

We all have to remember, that we a discussing the elements of operation of companies now.
Sorry, when did this change then? The threads are full of historic elements and always have been.
I see no reason why the past, present, and future can't be discussed. I see nothing in the rules to preclude any aviation based subject. Certainly the forum is not here just for those who think they are special in some way. If a subject doesn't interest them they can place people on an ignore list or just not comment at all...

Guest 112233

21st Feb 2013, 13:51

"Sorry, when did this change then?"

( I don't mean on PPRuNe, but there is a parallel meaning and call100, I think linked with the slight increase in "Stuffyness" I'm not manipulating your meaning but borrowing from it)

Its not a sudden thing but gradual. As soon as Airports ceased to have a civic role and became primarily profit centres, the viewer became secondary to the business of extracting as much as possible in an efficient way from the passengers travelling through the facility.

The advent of Lo-Co carriers has also played its part, but is I think a later factor - Remember the privatisation of Airlines would have been an imperative to reduce handling costs.

I do not mean municipal ownership in this way, per say. A council or councils could operate in exactly the same way. Likewise a company could if they wished, provide spectator facilities; as marketing plus to emphasise the value their facility to the (at the time) non travelling public.

Sadly the utilitarian premise of maximising the cash-flow from a facility prevails.

call100

21st Feb 2013, 14:27

@CATIII-NDB.
Apologies, I misunderstood your meaning........
Of course, if BHX could find a way to make it pay, I've no doubt they would develop facilities. That said, the only facility in the old building was at the top of the side steps. That is why most spectators gathered in the the buffet, which was not an official spotting area. So, the only people that made money from spectators was THF!!
The problem of trying to make it pay is that most people don't want to pay for the privilege (?) of looking at the planes. :)
Onward and upward.....

Skipness One Echo

21st Feb 2013, 14:36

seem to forget is that it is not just the plane spotters who like to spend time at airports. Joe Public and his kids love it too.
Most airports nowadays have no part in the community like say Schiphol does, or even FRA-Port. LHR is a little bit better than it was with T5 but the central area and T4 are designed to get you in, dropped off and away ASAP. You won't even see an aeroplane.
The worst is Edinburgh, there are *no* facilities worth mentioning landside, much like GLA. Both have a WHS and a pub in a far corner. New terminals in recent years have been at best tin sheds. They are now people processing centres in the UK whereas abroad they are often a proud part of the community, public spaces of a sort.
Given BHX's problems of not being on the radar of the nearby travelling public, turning the clock back a little might not be bad idea.

LGS6753

21st Feb 2013, 15:21

I remember having a discussion with one Paul Kehoe, when he was CEO at Luton about spectator facilities. His view was that they were mainly used by people who brought their own drinks/food and would not spend on parking/entrance fees. So they were of no commercial use to an airport.

If anything, airports have become more commercial over the intervening ten years, so I expect Mr K has not changed his opinion.

bazzab68

21st Feb 2013, 16:27

Hopefully see one of these bad boys in bhx shortly.

Photo Monarch Airlines Airbus A320-214 F-WWBZ (http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=1202013)

Regards

Barry

GayFriendly

21st Feb 2013, 17:00

Never mind the sharklets, look at that amazing blue sky, something we sadly so rarely see in the UK :( I want to go on holiday now!

I'm not a spotter but the pier provides brilliant views of the airfield and close up of planes, shame you need a boarding card to make use of it! To be fair not great in winter but what's wrong with Sheldon Country Park for plane spotting?

chinapattern

21st Feb 2013, 17:44

The question is would the general public use an indoor viewing area if there was one? The last time I was in the old spectator gallery there was hardly anybody in there; and that was at the height of summer. I know that the pier developments blocked a lot of the views and it wasn’t ideal from a spotters perspective, but for everyday joe public it still offered a decent view of the planes landing and taking off.

I think PK was probably right in what he said as you would often see spotters in there with their own flasks and sandwiches which is fair enough; but that’s not going to make any profit and sadly in today’s economic climate that is what it’s all about.

Besides, there isn't anywhere suitable for an indoor viewing area anyway so the best one could hope for would be something along the lines of the viewing park at Manchester.

ATNotts

21st Feb 2013, 17:57

Chinapattern

The viewing terrace doesn't need to be covered. I used to use Nürnberg a great deal, and after checking in, if I had time, often went up to the viewing terrace, which is open to the elements, and has glass frontage, which doesn't make photography ideal but viewing / spotting is fine. For the less hardy there is a viewing available inside, where there is also a quality Movenpick cafeteria serving decent food and drink, including beers, at not ridiculous prices.

Special events are help on the terrace year round, including an ice rink in winter!

Entrance is free, and the terrace and cafeteria well patronised, with both enthusiasts and the general public, who use the place because it's a fairly cheap afternoon or evening out for the family.

So, why wouldn't it work here in UK? I guess the first thing is that the catering would be p**s poor, as it normally is, and our stupid licencing regulations would preclude sale of alcohol in areas frequented by youngsters, making it less attractive for dad. Undoubtedly the airport would insist upon charging an entrance fee which would also put off families, but still the airport would benefit from the rake offs from parking and catering.

I honestly think that UK airport management lives in a UK bubble, and never looks at what happens elsewhere in Europe - a problem which I have to say is pretty widespread among our population and I don't suppose for a moment that Kehoe is about to open his eyes, broaden his horizons, and think outside of the "UK box".

Planeaddict

22nd Feb 2013, 10:36

BHX runway extension works - mid-Feb 2013 (http://youtu.be/4cAmu3cvBHQ)

The road is coming along nicely :ok:

OltonPete

22nd Feb 2013, 21:11

Passenger figures from the CAA, average per flight and load factor estimated by using a BHX blog and libhomeradar for movements (2012 in brackets).

Hard work this lot due to the weather and seasonal reductions - please take them with a huge pinch of salt.

A lot of 70% -80% load factors and quite similar to last year. The one that would bring the biggest smile to the beancounters face is Frankfurt with a loss of just 454 pax but a cut of 25% of flights and they added 25% on load factor.

BRUSSELS...7970...(8519)...38 PAX...43%

LARNACA...2635...(2888)...165 PAX...78%

COPENHAGEN...5012...(5478)...63 PAX...61%

GRENOBLE...3250..(1833)...135 PAX...78%

LYON...NIL...(2257).

PARIS...25517...(25907)...82... PAX...68%

BERLIN TXL...3594...(nil)..76 pax...55%

DUSSELDORF...10528...(11402)...47 PAX...55%

FRANKFURT...17187...(17641)...99 pax...75%

HAMBURG...2165...(1046)...52.pax...60%

HANOVER...2887...(2967)...55 pax...65%

MUNICH...4045...(13064)...77 pax...57%

STUTTGART...1275...(2126)...26 pax...33%

CORK...5147...(5354)..42 pax...59%

DUBLIN...35647...(36634)...102 pax...57%

KNOCK...1333...(2614)...30 pax...53%

SHANNON...1765...(2201)...36 pax...66%

WATERFORD...298...(NIL)...50 pax...64%

BERGAMO.....2948...(NIL)....105 PAX...56%

MILAN...1179...(1238)...31 pax...35%

ROME FCO...2645...(nil)...102 pax...58%

VENICE...1818...(nil)...91 pax...45%

MALTA...2300...(2310)...153 pax...81%

AMSTERDAM...32237...(33866)...86 pax...75%

FARO...5135...(5758)...160 pax...82%

Funchal...1289...(nil)...129 pax...63%

ALICANTE...10579...(13332)...176 pax...87%

BARCELONA...4389...(nil)...129 pax...68%

GIRONA...nil...(1143)...

MALAGA...9753...(9652)...155 pax...77%

PALMA...2501...(0)...137 pax...72%

ARRECIFE...5225...(7370)...154 pax...77%

FUERTEVENTURA...2587...(3096)...162 pax...79%

LAS PALMAS...3105...(4678)...155 pax...78%

TENERIFE...11941...(13545)...171 pax...82%

STOCKHOLM ARN....1197....(NIL)...60 pax...50%

GENEVA......9468....(11496).....141 PAX......89%

ZURICH...9468...(11496)...71 pax...67%

ISTANBUL...6413...(4547)...103 pax...65% (based on 155 seats for the A320/738) - 2012 - 103 pax 65% load factor!

PRAGUE...nil pax...(3104)...

BUDAPEST...859...(nil)...143 pax...77%

KAUNAS...NIL...(2542)

BYDGOSZCZ...4635...(3898)...155 Pax..82%

GDANSK/NIL...(2653)...

KATOWICE...2903...(2453)...145 pax...77%

KRAKOW.....2764.....(NIL)...142 PAX...75%

RZESNOW...4144...(2628)...148 pax...78%

BRATISLAVA...3217...(3661)...161 pax...85%

ASHKHABAD...4654...(5084)...120 pax...67%

DUBAI..39446...(42834)...318 pax...78% -

ISLAMABAD...7345...(7794)...204 pax...55%

NEWARK...6379...(6376)...129 pax...75%

Pete

CabinCrewe

22nd Feb 2013, 22:35

how do some of those Euro/German routes ever survive ? are the 30 pax paying premium fares?

OltonPete

22nd Feb 2013, 23:28

CabinCrewe

Some of the routes do hit the extremes such as Milan with extremely low load factors during a couple of the winter months but good load factors in Spring and Summer and I assume flybe are prepared to ride the winter storm.

Brussels and Dusseldorf have been quoted as the most profitable of BHX routes due to a reasonable amount of last minute high-yielding fares.

Stuttgart is more of a mystery as flybe they have changed the times and in January even reducedi it to six a week and load factors have not improved. As for fares/yield on this service I have no idea but considering flybe has swung the axe elsewhere and this survives (thus far) would indicate that there is more to this route than meets the eye.

Pete

Planeaddict

23rd Feb 2013, 09:29

Islamabad seems rather low with 55% load factor. Emirates pretty steady. But the snow was definitely a factor.

Daza

23rd Feb 2013, 10:01

CabinCrewe wrote
how do some of those Euro/German routes ever survive ? are the 30 pax paying premium fares?

The answer to your question is yes. Passenger numbers are just that, numbers. They are interesting, but they are not an indication of yield. Full service airlines are much less dependent on filling every seat on an aircraft than their low fares competitors. Their ticketing and yield management systems are much more complex too (I worked in ticketing many years ago).

Even the split between business and economy can be misleading as fully flexible, last minute economy passengers can be paying more than business class fares on the same flight.

Flybe Stuttgart must be attracting lots of last minute, flexible bookings (as it did with Maersk/Duo/Bacon.) If not I'm sure it would have faced the chop by now. However, I agree with OP that the change to the schedule for BHX-STR could be the final nail in the coffin for this flight with no long day in STR now.:confused: Maybe BMIR with their ER4/ER3 aircraft that would be more suited to BHX-STR? :}

BTW OP I do love to read your route analysis!! :ok:
Daza

ATNotts

23rd Feb 2013, 10:26

Maybe BMIR with their ER4/ER3 aircraft that would be more suited to BHX-STR

Agree 100% - being a point to point route STR is an ideal opportunity for a BMIR operation, preferably 2 x daily, morning and evening, with no need to have alliance support.

In fact, it would have probably have been a better bet for BMIR to go head to head with Flybe than Lyon, giving business friendly timings.

chinapattern

23rd Feb 2013, 13:04

Just a quick question, when Turkmenistan operate the 737's into BHX do they have to make a tech stop? And if so, where?

Planeaddict

23rd Feb 2013, 14:38

Just a quick question, when Turkmenistan operate the 737's into BHX do they have to make a tech stop? And if so, where?

No tech stop as far as flightradar is concerned. Interestingly that site also shows that they now only fly once a week into BHX with 737's - didn't they used to operate more frequently in the past?

groundhogbhx

23rd Feb 2013, 20:36

The T5 738's don't tech stop, no need.

future_pilot17

23rd Feb 2013, 22:07

Turkmenistan operates 4x a week, with different times. They've all operated lately with the B738 as opposed to the more usual B752, info below and the most recent date they operated.

T5 429/430 - Sundays (17/2)
T5 411/412 - Mondays (18/2)
T5 421/422 - Wednesdays (20/2)
T5 425/426 - Fridays (22/2)

Cheers

Tom

chinapattern

24th Feb 2013, 10:17

They've all operated lately with the B738 as opposed to the more usual B752.

Thought the 738's might have been just a seasonal reduction but it appears they're down to just x3 757's now so whether this is a permanent change remains to be seen. Quite hard to find any reliable info on T5 really.

Planeaddict

24th Feb 2013, 12:13

Was a rumour a while back that Air Algerie were to start BHX with B738's in March - any update?

chaps2011

24th Feb 2013, 12:36

There is a lovely Air Algeria A330 at Manchester at the moment

Chaps

insuindi

24th Feb 2013, 17:35

Was originally booked on Thursdays ZB BHX-MUC. A while ago this flight was cancelled and I accepted rebooking onto Friday's flight. Ca 35 pax in A321.

GayFriendly

24th Feb 2013, 21:02

T5 - How does the 738 and 757 compare on seats, I would have thought the 738 to be less? I hope this isn't a sign that they are struggling on their BHX route

AH - no update and I should imagine that's how that will stay as I very much doubt it was even intended to operate

ZB - ouch, surely MUC can't go on much longer if circa 35 is indicative of loads. Something like a summer NAP or VLC and a winter SZG or INN would surely be a better year round use of an aircraft than MUC for ZB?

GayFriendly

24th Feb 2013, 21:17

Out of interest took a look at AH website to see just where they fly. As you would expect a large number of flights to France and Spain plus a few others like LHR, AMS, FRA, MXP, FCO and GVA. LHR is served four times a week. Other than that, some West and North African cities, Medinah, Dubai, Beijing and Montreal. I really can't see BHX being added to this collection.

OltonPete

24th Feb 2013, 21:26

GF

T5 - not got the exact figures but 171 for the 738 and around 190 for the 757 or it used to be.

Pax have been on the decline but only slightly and the 738 is probably big enough.

ZB - very noticeable that Munich is not bookable yet next winter. I agree a mix of SZG and INN would be a better bet.

The GNB figures seem reasonable although easy are on the route and if it is anything like GVA it will be fairly full.

Daza - cheers did hope to have the December domestic loads but the punctuality stats are not out! Stuttgart out tomorrow back Thursday was listed at £600 plus. Wouldn't take many at that price to ease the worries.

Hannover in summer has moved to a 13.00 departure back at 17.35 and if STR stayed at daily daytime if would be one less aircraft based but no sign of that yet.

Travel Service still listed as three flights a week based times - very odd.

Pete

chinapattern

27th Feb 2013, 11:17

Glad to see BHX survive the cutbacks; normally when airlines start cancelling and reducing services we always seem to be top of the list.

insuindi

27th Feb 2013, 11:58

Re LH Berlin: In BHX LH doesn't need to compete with the likes of Easyjet (MAN-SXF)...

GayFriendly

28th Feb 2013, 07:54

Geat news that this has survived (for now) the route cull by LH at TXL. I should imagine LH have had to completely revise their Berlin ops with the delayed opening of new airport and Germanwings. TXL quite simply can't cope with the massive increase in flights from LH last year, when I have been there it can at best be described as 'overcrowded'.

I have flown this route from BHX on numerous occasions since it started and fares have nearly always been higher than from MAN for dates I have travelled, with Economy Saver fares nearly always being available from MAN but not from BHX. Is it too simplistic to assume that LH are getting better yields from BHX as there is no other direct competitor on the route?

Flights from BHX I have been on have tended to be full, although admittedly I haven't flown there since Nov and I have seen from published stats that loads have not been quite as spectacular as over the summer.

I for one really hope this route survives as for me it's very useful indeed

insuindi

28th Feb 2013, 09:05

last Monarch service BHX-MUC 22APR.

chinapattern

1st Mar 2013, 17:15

Not in the least bit surprised that MON have dropped MUC; it always stood out as a bit of an oddball choice and I don't think any of us on here thought the route had much of a future. I'm not even sure what kind of market they were aiming for? I'd be interested to see if they drop MAN-MUC too as the competition is even greater. Let's hope they can find a better use for the aircraft.

Centre cities

3rd Mar 2013, 09:53

They have, Barcelona.

OltonPete

3rd Mar 2013, 10:03

chinapattern

Munich and Milan were disappointing choices and I am sure BHX, flybe and Lufthansa will be pleased, as much as it pains me to say I don't think there there is room for competition on these routes at the present time especially with 174/214 seat aircraft.

Monarch have acted swiftly with Barcelona now daily from May although with FR that makes that route 11 a week with FR plus 3 x REU and 2 x GRO.

The annual high-season night Tenerife by Monarch on a Tuesday is back. This aircraft possibly operates BHX 0635 GIB, 14.10 ALC, TFS 21.35 back at 07.10 Wednesday out 08.10 Bordeaux with a turnaround to Split 13.55 arriving back 20.20 but it does get the night off.

High season now sees night-flights IBZ Thu-Mon, PMI & AGP FRI-SUN.

A clear increase in utilisation.

I still think a 10th aircraft would have been on the cards if they could have sourced it with still Corfu shown as an IT, Rhodes on Thomson for Avro and Malaga could easily have been double daily every day.

August is getting better but will still be well down with four BMI 733's been replaced by one extra Monarch plus a slight increase in seats (Nice was 149 last year).

Does anyone know the 320/321 split for Monarch at BHX - dummy bookings the last time I checked was 4 x 321 and 5 x 320 but the fleet additions are 5 x 321's and 3 x A320.

Pete

insuindi

3rd Mar 2013, 10:22

@OltonPete - agree that Monarch is not the right competitor for BHX-MUC, due to too large aircraft and absolutely no brand in Germany.

I could imagine Easyjet with 4/7 or 5/7 evening flights and less last minute schedule reductions. All this schedule thinning made it a far safer choice to book LH.

Flybe - BHX-HAJ now with E175 for Sat/Sun during summer, rather than Dash8 and E195.

Alex321

3rd Mar 2013, 15:37

Appears to be 4 A321 and 5 A320 but that could change!

yeo valley

3rd Mar 2013, 16:07

that makes 9 a321 then see prev post.

MKY661

3rd Mar 2013, 17:49

that makes 9 a321 then see prev post.

That can't be right as an A320 is needed at BHX in order to operate BHX-GIB as the A321 cannot fly there. I think Alex321 was supposed to put A320 instead of A321 for one of them.

Alex321

3rd Mar 2013, 21:58

Correct, just spotted my error, Definitely 4 A321 and 4 A320 the 9th aircraft is showing as an A320 but there is talk it will instead be an extra A321.

Daza

4th Mar 2013, 09:58

Looks as if LH are pleased with their services from Birmingham it would appear that Birmingham experienced the biggest growth at any of their UK bases.

Source Birmingham Post
http://www.birminghampost.net/birmingham-business/birmingham-business-news/automotive-business/2013/03/04/motor-industry-connections-put-birmingham-airport-top-for-lufthansa-65233-32917086/

Good news :ok:

Daza

insuindi

4th Mar 2013, 11:17

Not a surprise about having the largest LH growth in the UK - given LH's takeover of HAM (kicking out BE) and the successful introduction of TXL.
Having said that, considering LH Group, LX from BHX is down, SN (I think?) is down.

Commercially it must be an attractive market for LH, given there is no competition on any of the routes, other than on BHX-DUS (and ignoring ZB's intermezzo on MUC).

From LHR (LON) and MAN they have the joyful company of BA, U2, ZB, AB to Germany...

Planeaddict

5th Mar 2013, 14:51

Heard a rumor on another forum that due to the B787 issues, Qatar will not be launching BHX until at least Q2 2014.

They have also had to downsize their yet to be launched Chicago flights too, from daily to 3 weekly.

Centre cities

5th Mar 2013, 15:58

That will fit nicely with the opening of the runway extension then. PR sorted.

Centre cities

Jonnyf

5th Mar 2013, 16:24

Alicante increases for August to 9x Weekly. Double daily on Wednesdays and Saturdays

nigel osborne

5th Mar 2013, 16:38

Planeaddict.

Qatar never set a starting date anyway for a BHX service, their boss just said they would be starting Birmingham.So not sure where the infos from that they have put the date back :confused:

Since then they have launched 10 new routes and put starting dates on all of those, that puts things into perspective where we are at.

Nigel

OltonPete

5th Mar 2013, 17:35

Jonnyf

Alicante is 9 weekly from 31/3/2013 and has been for a while.

The August extras thus far are a Friday Faro and Saturday Malaga, quite pathetic compared to EMA.

Pete

FRatSTN

5th Mar 2013, 18:06

The August extras thus far are a Friday Faro and Saturday Malaga, quite pathetic compared to EMA.

Without sounding funny, hopefully it will remain that way. I'm a bit biased I know as I live in the East Midlands but hopfully EMA will always remain bigger with FR traffic. With the exception of Ryanair and Jet2 (who I find very comparable to Monarch who are now very big in BHX), virtually everything we now have at EMA is just BHX on a smaller scale and it's nice to have a major airline that chooses a regional airport like EMA as a major base.

However, BHX does have more FR this year with the new BCN, BGY and the continuation of the KRK route. It's good to see that FR can maintain these routes at both BHX and EMA, unlike in the north-west where some routes like BGY, CIA and RIX have been axed from LPL and now go from MAN instead (which personally I prefer, but Liverpudlians are probably not so happy.)

MANAGP

5th Mar 2013, 22:24

A321s can operate to GIB.

OltonPete

5th Mar 2013, 22:42

FRatSTN

No need to worry on that score if passenger charges remain similar at both airports. Certainly a pretty impressive FR August schedule at East Mids.

It is a good operation between both airports.

Monarch Hangar

Went past today and some structure has gone up already!

Movements

Tuesday even in March can be a little quiet but with priority freight flights and East Mids diversions it was a busy day.

Cello's second aircraft was registered yesterday as well although yet to fly commercially yet.

Pete

Mr @ Spotty M

6th Mar 2013, 04:26

Yes they can, but the load restrictions would be horrendous. :ugh:

sam1993

8th Mar 2013, 12:09

Few extra charters for Birmingham this summer:

Small Planet will be operating to Corfu on Mondays, Heraklion on Tuesdays, Rhodes on Wednesdays, Zante on Thursdays, Skiathos on Fridays, Larnaca on Saturdays and Paphos on Sundays.

Daza

8th Mar 2013, 13:51

Good news for Summer 2013
Looking at the Olympic Holidays site the Birmingham schedule would appear to be

Monday CFU 1355 1915 2005 2155 LLP611/2 eff.3/6/2013
Tuesday HER 0830 1455 1555 1830 LLP621/2 eft.4/6/2013
Wednesday RHO 1000 1635 1735 2015 LLP631/3 eff.5/6/2013
Thursday ZTH 0930 1515 1615 1920 LLP641/2 eff.6/6/2013
Friday JSI 0930 1515 1615 1920 LLP651/2 eff.14/6/2013
Saturday LCA 0700 1355 1455 1810 LLP661/2 eff.8/6/2013
Sunday PFO 0900 1550 1650 2000 LLP671/2 eff.30/6/2013

What aircraft do Small Planet operate?
Daza

ATNotts

8th Mar 2013, 15:53

Daza

Looking at their website a fleet of (probably knackered) 733s.

Do Olympic Holidays learn nothing from their previous forays with the bottom end of the charter airline industry?

mizake the mizzen

8th Mar 2013, 15:56

Small Planet also have A320s.
A320 is nore likely to be the case as a B733 would struggle on BHX-LCA with a full payload in the hight of summer.
Dont take that as gospel though.

Laasjet

8th Mar 2013, 16:42

Here we go again. The annual event.

No doubt, Small Planet will be cheap but not so cheerful.

If anyone wants to look into the crystal ball I would suggest
a "looksee" at Trip Advisor and, then, make your plans to
use a proper airline.

For the record, they have a mixed bag of elderly 737's, one
former Britannia 757 and one wet leased 320 at the moment.
No doubt there will be more trotting along.

GayFriendly

8th Mar 2013, 17:23

I have just done a quick trawl of schedules from other UK airports to some of the same Greek airports served by Olympic from BHX and it would appear that they make extensive use of Jet2 (from LBA, EMA, MAN, GLA etc), EZY (LPL, BRS, NCL etc) as well as TCX and TOM. Cannot see so far Small Planet being offered from any other UK airport to Greece by Olympic.

BHX does not have a particularly strong 'scheduled no frills' offering to Greek island destinations, ZB only serves HER? Perhaps this is why they have to sub contract flights to a random East European airline as there simply isn't the capacity needed available. Better that than Olympic not bother to offer flights from BHX at all! Looking at the schedule there are no night flights planned which means that any delays during the day could be soaked up whilst the a/c is on the ground overnight (barring of course major tech faults ;))

GayFriendly

8th Mar 2013, 17:32

Just read an article from Air Transport World where EK President Tim Clark has stated that GLA is on the radar (with BCN) as next new A380 destinations (main focus of article is lack of access to expand flights to India)

http://atwonline.com/airports-routes/news/emirates-a380s-still-banned-indian-airports-0307?NL=ATW-04&[email protected]&YM_MID=1378224

OltonPete

9th Mar 2013, 10:09

Flybe

Flybe | Corporate | Media | News archive (http://www.flybe.com/corporate/media/news/1303/8.htm)

Cutting through the spin, Glasgow seems to gain with frequencies and seats despite taking less passengers than EDI and EDI gains frequency but it is just a recovery of seats compared to September 2012, as it was 7 x 195 compared to 3 x 175, 4 x 195 & 1 x Q400.

I tried to see where this extra EDI based Q400 has come from but I couldn't see any network cuts or re-organisation but I suspect a BHX unit. The Q400 schedule this summer as I have mentioned before has a spare morning slot so potentially plenty of remedies at flybe's disposal - cut night-stop DUS and operate first Jersey out (five minute re-time required), push the morning IOM back to 08.20, move Waterford, HAJ or STR flights to 08.20.

At present this "new" Q400 sits at BHX from 07.55 to 14.05.

The first Jersey out fits those times perfectly.

GF

I assume future bookings and yield are good as there is nothing in the pax figures alone to show why an A380 would be needed. It is improving with load factors at 72% in January which is more like a May/June stat but it is early days.

As for BHX only two three-class flights out 112 movements in February so I assume things have improved although of course one less day in 2013 so it might be negative again.

Pete

OltonPete

9th Mar 2013, 13:48

The CAA punctuality stats are out enabling me to give an accurate passenger per flight although load factor is still estimated due to flybe's maximum use of it's fleet - in other words change of types from the published schedule. 2011 figures in brackets.

November

Aberdeen---8085 (7118)---49 per flight---59% load factor
Belfast City---23381 (25871)---67 pax---62%
Belfast Int---10756 (Nil)---103 pax---66%
Londonderry---4352 (4417)---128 pax---68%
Dundee---1499 (1518)---20 pax---60%
Edinburgh---27139 (26762)---82 pax---73%
Glasgow---19691 (18866)---59 pax---56%
Guernsey---2311 (2331)---48 pax---60% (includes Jersey)
Jersey-------2732 (2372)
Inverness---2720 (2123)---52 pax---67%
Isle of Man---3372 (3816)---36 pax---46%
Newcastle---944 (1266)---9 pax---30%

December

Aberdeen---6696 (6101)---50 per flight---60% load factor
Belfast City---19174 (22618)---64 pax---61%
Belfast Int---10920 (Nil)---109 pax---70%
Londonderry---4044 (4113)---119 pax---63%
Dundee---38 ()---19 pax---58%
Edinburgh---19253 (18338)---72 pax---65%
Glasgow---13025 (13516)---50 pax---50%
Guernsey---2091 (2196)---45 pax---58% (includes Jersey)
Jersey-------2313 (2328)
Inverness---2720 (2123)---51 pax---65%
Isle of Man---3059 ()---35 pax---44%
Newcastle---564 (703)---10 pax---33%

So flybe didn't do too bad on BHD with easyjet's first two full months on BFS.

Edinburgh was excellent and just adds more questions why Glasgow gets similar capacity from next month and the same frequencies.

I also checked the accuracy of the International routes from the punctuality stats and most were there or there abouts.Ryanair had a few where the load factor was higher due to diverts away on some Polish routes and they came back empty.

Pete

Matt995

9th Mar 2013, 16:46

Small Planet Poland (LLP) at present only operate a fleet of 3 A320's, including an ex TCX A320.

The oldest aircraft is 15 years old, the newest is 12 years old, hopefully the aircraft will be more reliable than the Skywings A320 of a few years ago! Guess only time will tell!

Laasjet

9th Mar 2013, 18:16

Matt

I think that you are referring to the Polish Small Planet that currently operates three 320's.

The other Small Planet is Lithuanian that operates in the region of 13 heritage aircraft.

Are you saying that the new contract will be with the Polish or Lithuanian outfits?

mizake the mizzen

9th Mar 2013, 18:57

Small Planet have 3 divisions.
Small Planet Lithuania (Parent Company) Operating 4x B733
Small Planet Poland operating 2x A320/180Y Based WAW
Small Planet Italy operating 2 x B733/148Y Based FCO and BGY.

LLC is the designator for Small Planet Lithuania.
LLP is the designator for Small Planet Poland.
LLI is the designator for Small Planet Italy.

In the Winter they base an A320 + B733 in Riga to operate charters for Novaturas, the largest Baltic states Tour Operating group.
The A320 doesnt operate out of RIX in the Summer as Novaturas contract SmartLynx A320 + Small Planet B733.

My guess would be then that the A320 is coming to the UK for Summer (as it did the last couple of years for Meridian (Broker)) and thats the one that Olympic Holidays will use, having said that it could be a B733...though the B733 would struggle on BHX-LCA and BHX-PFO.

The RIX based aircraft move around quite alot picking up work where they can find it, apart from the one unit thats dedicated to Novaturas.

The B757 LY-FLG (ex G-BYAR) is I believe leased to SCAT Airlines (Kazakhstan) and operated for them.

StoneyBridge Radar

10th Mar 2013, 14:03

Noticed this on that other site ending in .net, on the subject of MAN, but mentions BHX:

Singapore has rebounded remarkably and it is increasingly likely the 328 will be de-linked from MUC, Emirates has already assigned flight numbers and a provisional date for their 4th daily service, Qatar's plan is for a return to double daily as they have put BHX on the back burner to focus on strengthening their position at MAN, Finnair is adding capacity again. :hmm:

justplanecrazy84

10th Mar 2013, 15:15

How can QR be dropping BHX for MAN when the reason why they haven't started BHX was due to the problems with the 787?? Yes we all know BHX isn't top of QR list and maybe MAN will recieve the a visit from a 787 before BHX but increasing MAN is not the reason why BHX hasn't started yet.

North West

10th Mar 2013, 16:14

Noticed this on that other site ending in .net, on the subject of MAN, but mentions BHX:

Which immediately devalues it as any form of reliable source, unless the senior team at SQ and QR are now holding their strategic planning discussions at the Manchester AVP.

nigel osborne

10th Mar 2013, 16:31

Justplane crazy Re BHXC-MAN-Qatar

It could well be right, Qatar said in 2011 they were already planning to increase services out of Manchester when the time was right.:}

Would be BHX usual bad luck, that the delays in 787s for Qatar, would lead to them focusing instead on increasing MAN with another 330.

Far less risky to add another flt on an existing route when you have the infrastructure already in place that start from scratchout of BHX.

BHX chances haven't been helped by stagnation and some reversal in loads with EK dropping from mid to high 80% down to mid 75% in recent months..certainly won't encourage Qatar that theres enough of the cake left for them to the region.

No doubt if they do announce another MAN flt, it will be curtains for Qatar at BHX :{

Nigel

StoneyBridge Radar

10th Mar 2013, 16:40

How can QR be dropping BHX for MAN when the reason why they haven't started BHX was due to the problems with the 787??

Has this actually ever been attributed, in print, with a hard quote from anyone official at QR?

I believe it has all been chatter on the likes of PPRUNE that have presumed that to be the reason....

justplanecrazy84

11th Mar 2013, 16:30

Hasn't QR come out and said that problems with the 787 has caused delays with starting new routes which the 787 will be used on?

StoneyBridge Radar

11th Mar 2013, 16:52

Hasn't QR come out and said that problems with the 787 has caused delays with starting new routes which the 787 will be used on?

No, apart from Chengdu and Chicago:

Qatar’s planned daily non-stop Doha-Chicago O’Hare service, slated to get underway on April 10, will initially be operated only 3X-weekly, the airline said. However, the carrier said it will increase to the planned daily frequency from June 15.

Additionally, the launch of 3X-weekly flights between Doha and Chengdu (in central China), which was intended to start on March 19, has been postponed indefinitely.

The announcements come as the carrier works to adjust capacity on existing routes as a result of the grounding of its Dreamliners.

They have not issued even a provisional launch date yet either for BHX, only this:

“We can confirm we are planning to launch passenger flights to Birmingham, but are not yet in a position to announce a date nor schedules.

We mustn't also lose track of the fact, without aircraft leaving the fleet, the B787 comprises only 4% of Qatar's fleet.

GayFriendly

12th Mar 2013, 12:21

No doubt if they do announce another MAN flt, it will be curtains for Qatar at BHX

Was it ever anything more than curtains? ;)

Why can't QR start BHX with a 330? I think the 787 delay is just smokescreen for the fact that they are now not that interested in launching BHX. Based on figures that have been made available, since the increase in EK/EY flights at MAN and the increase in TK frequency from BHX, it would seem for now at least that the market at BHX now seems to be sown up.

nigel osborne

12th Mar 2013, 19:41

Gayfriendly;

re BHX and Qatar A330..

Well the fact they have none free means they couldn't start BHX with one unless they chop another route.

Nigel

ATNotts

13th Mar 2013, 12:45

I only ask as BHX already has a second carrier (after Emirates) offering excellent hub facilities in Istanbul, and serving much the same market as Qatar would.

The TK effect has been to dilute Emirates PAX already, the arrival of a third carrier may well spell curtains for one or more of them at BHX, leaving the airport and the region much worse off than it is now.

I guess the reggies and colour scheme - and kudos for the airport - would be one reason to see a Qatar service though?

hammerb32

13th Mar 2013, 12:54

ATNotts

I suspect the bigger impact would be on Qatars MAN service, takes pax from the West Mids away and into a hypothetical BHX service and it could well leave Qatar with 2 daily non viable flights. I'm not sure the existing carriers at BHX will have much to worry about purely as they built up and established a client base.

chinapattern

13th Mar 2013, 13:14

The TK effect has been to dilute Emirates PAX already, the arrival of a third carrier may well spell curtains for one or more of them at BHX, leaving the airport and the region much worse off than it is now.

With QR off the agenda now perhaps this time next year we could have TK going double daily everyday, especially if they manage to open up all their planned new India routes.

GayFriendly

13th Mar 2013, 13:18

GayFriendly

13th Mar 2013, 13:21

Chinapattern, I would not be surprised in the slightest if TK double up next year as they continue to expand across Europe with increased frequencies and destinations

Daza

13th Mar 2013, 13:39

I have it from a very reliable source that the next Middle East Carrier to start up at BHX may not be QR........:}

The massive pull that London's Middle East services have much more of an effect on Birmingham Airport's Middle East traffic than TK or MAN.
QR have just added a 5th Daily DOH flight. EK have 7 A380s a day (inc. QF) to DXB and there's Etihad, Gulf, Kuwait and Saudia too. Of course there are also multiple direct flights to India from LHR. All under 2 hours down the M40.
Daza

ATNotts

13th Mar 2013, 18:20

Daza

Ok let me hazard a guess. BHX are courting Syrianair and Iran Air!! :rolleyes:

Suzeman

13th Mar 2013, 19:36

Nigel, re non availability of QR A330 for BHX

That's a very bold statement of fact, what or who is your source for this? In a previous statement you have alluded to the fact that QR might re-expand their MAN ops using 'another 330' (which would also mean chopping another route?).......so as of now, can you confirm if they have or haven't they got sufficient A330's that could be used for a possible BHX flight?

Whilst I cannot speak for Nigel's source, common sense tells you that as they have had 5 787s delivered which entered service but are now currently grounded, they are currently having to shuffle their fleet to maintain their existing services. New routes and additional frequencies will have to take a back seat until the situation resolves itself.

As for MAN going up to double daily, they must be losing pax to EK and EY who have 3 or 2 every day. It's a positive pain in the a*se when you have to know on which days they operate only once out of MAN when making plans. This reduces your flexibility for travel. Much easier to go to EY or EK who you know operate the same time and frequency every day.

Why do you need to chop a route to re-instate double daily MAN? As the fleet is still expanding, then you wait for a spare aircraft to become available which is probably what is happening. Maybe there are other routes and frequency enhancements which have priority. But at MAN they are losing market share without their double daily, so it could be quite a high priority, especially with rumours of a 4th EK service later in the year.

nigel osborne

13th Mar 2013, 20:21

Skipness One Echo

13th Mar 2013, 20:47

12 month latest figures show Qatar EK and EY Manchester ALL seeing healthy increases in passengers .. I can give exact numbers if you really really want them.So certainly not loosing any to them!
In a *VERY* competitive market place, now do they want to fragment that even more by opening up BHX? QR blinked first as they were already double daily at MAN having dropped LGW. it seems they're going to take the fight back to EK and EY.

Ringwayman

13th Mar 2013, 21:00

Market shares:

Jan-Jun 2012: EK 55.76%, EY 22.60%, QR 21.64%
Jul-Dec 2012: EK 56.97%, EY 24.49%, QR 18.54%

The last 6 months saw QR passenger numbers drop 17% with EK up 8% and EY up 18%. Believe July coincided with the 1st full month with reduced QR frequency

chinapattern

13th Mar 2013, 21:04

Ok let me hazard a guess. BHX are courting Syrianair and Iran Air!!

My moneys on Yemenia! :)

BHX5DME

13th Mar 2013, 21:07

DUBLIN523,689down-2.21
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AMSTERDAM444,045down-6.38
PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE)361,234up11.82
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ZURICH137,294down-8.27
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NEW YORK (NEWARK)92,794down-4.16
ISTANBUL83,990up58.85
ROME (FIUMICINO)81,804up2097.26
CORK79,808up6.31
HANOVER78,541down-1.15
MAHON76,755up6.66
COPENHAGEN75,324down-5.48
GENEVA64,848down-1.49
HERAKLION62,911down-6.77
MURCIA SAN JAVIER62,313down-3.37
ANTALYA61,212down-3.91
CORFU61,059down-14.86
MILAN (MALPENSA)59,668up42.68
ASHKHABAD59,202down-3.38
ZAKINTHOS58,881down-14.31
REUS56,508up3.66
BODRUM (MILAS)53,988down-2.86
GIRONA52,701up1.54
BYDGOSZCZ51,477down-0.69
NICE48,933up29.83
BRATISLAVA48,510down-6.74
BARCELONA48,227n/a
RHODES46,262down-4.81
KATOWICE42,809up29.34
HAMBURG40,910up62.19
MALTA40,250down-18.13
BERLIN (TEGEL)40,049up28303.55
IRELAND WEST(KNOCK)39,234down-12.27
VENICE36,777up16616.82
RZESZOW36,223up4.09
STUTTGART34,455down-7.96
ENFIDHA33,291up270.19
SHANNON32,442down-6.26
PRAGUE29,733up120.00
GDANSK28,821down-13.92
ALMERIA28,625up24.91
KAUNAS28,299up13.70
KOS27,576up17.15
DUBROVNIK26,137up137.54
FUNCHAL25,806up39.66
BUDAPEST25,384n/a
CANCUN24,632down-12.48
BURGAS24,524up6.50
ILHA DO SAL C.VERDE22,732down-0.3
2BOA VISTA (RABIL)21,094up572.43
IZMIR (ADNAM MENDERES)20,963down-2.68
NAPLES20,258up60.83
MONASTIR19,589up13.73
BRIDGETOWN18,572up5.81
MONTPELLIER17,170down-27.33
KEFALLINIA16,869down-5.54
MONTEGO BAY16,203down-13.07
TRIESTE (RONCHI DEI LEGIONARI)16,071down-4.48
CHAMBERY15,934down-11.76
INNSBRUCK15,922up34.36
TORONTO15,205down-12.72
SANFORD14,888down-2.05
VERONA VILLAFRANCA14,271down-9.15
TURIN13,639up18.99
GRENOBLE13,223up23.71
SALZBURG12,803down-25.42
PADERBORN12,710up2.26
WATERFORD12,256up2.33
LISBON10,974up2488.21
HURGHADA10,803down-53.47
BANJUL10,375down-5.42
KAVALA9,419down-0.69
THIRA (SANTORINI)9,268up12.64
SKIATHOS9,135down-30.43
PULA8,609down-1.79
LYON8,177down-74.35
TOULOUSE (BLAGNAC)6,921down-33.75
STOCKHOLM (ARLANDA)6,394up1716.48
KRAKOW6,265down-49.06
CHANIA5,817n/a
BERGAMO5,019n/a
GOTEBORG4,667down-65.91
PUNTA CANA4,297down-58.30
SOFIA3,939down-4.53
BERGERAC3,775down-57.46
AVIGNON3,534up39.68
PERPIGNAN3,011up3245.56
BREST2,874down-34.61
LA ROCHELLE2,862down-36.60
ROVANIEMI2,798up7.33
KITTILA1,554up419.73
TARBES-LOURDES INTERNATIONAL1,260up27.14
ENONTEKIO1,218up97.09
MARRAKESH621n/a
YEREVAN607n/a
SPLIT496n/a
VALENCIA476up13.33
KIEV (BORISPOL)471n/a
ROTTERDAM443up221.01
FRIEDRICHSHAFEN408n/a
DONETSK376n/a
LEIPZIG259n/a
NAIROBI248n/a
BILLUND221n/a
BOLOGNA221down-1.34
SEVILLE199down-30.18LINZ159n/a
VIENNA154down-96.64EINDHOVEN139n/aST PETERSBURG139n/aROSKILDE116n/aMAASTRICHT109n/aMUNSTER-OSNABRUCK94down-10.48TREVISO93n/aBAKU (HEYDER ALIYEV INT'L)85n/aVARNA68n/aBREMEN36n/a

GayFriendly

13th Mar 2013, 21:27

My moneys on Yemenia!

Perhaps Kuwait Airways are going to reroute their KWI-LHR-JFK service via BHX as a kind gesture to keep the tumbleweed from blowing around the runway extension?

What about Royal Jordanian with an A320? They sniffed around BHX many years ago and Jordan is a popular tourist destination now with some decent, (although limited compared to TK) onward connections from their AMM hub.

crewmeal

14th Mar 2013, 06:29

What about Royal Jordanian with an A320? They sniffed around BHX many years ago and Jordan is a popular tourist destination now with some decent, (although limited compared to TK) onward connections from their AMM hub.

Yes please I would use them all the time.

Who would want to travel with Kuwait, they're dry! Same as Egyptair. Those I feel are specialised markets anyway. With all the ongoing problems in Cairo I don't think there would be a market for it from Brum.

BobBHX

14th Mar 2013, 08:52

In a flight of fancy some time ago I posted a suggestion that Oman Air could (subject to 5th freedom rights) use one of their planes during a long ground stop at FRA / MUC / CDG to add on a leg to BHX. Admittedly, WY have a limited network but I have used them in the past for BKK and their business class is better than most airlines' first class.

The incremental cost of flying a short Euro hop to pick up pax in BHX cannot be a great deal more than the parking fees incurred. If it works for SQ (MUC/MAN) then it might just work for WY.

This is pure wish list on my part and not based on any "reliable source" or "they have been sniffing around" type speculation.

Suzeman

14th Mar 2013, 11:34

Suzeman

talking of bold statements you are incorrect about them loosing passengers to EK,EY.

12 month latest figures show Qatar EK and EY Manchester ALL seeing healthy increases in passengers .. I can give exact numbers if you really really want them.So certainly not loosing any to them!

Let me put it another way. If I want to go somewhere via a Gulf hub and QTR don't operate all their frequencies daily and their competitors do, they are likely to lose my business. And I suspect that others will also do the same if their travel dates / times not flexible. Need to get there on Weds sir? Sorry there is no flight that morning. Ah I can get there Weds evening by using EK or EY's morning service ex MAN - problem solved.

In addition a non-flexible itinerary is likely to produce the higher yielding fares, so they are missing out on these passengers. Hence their intention to go back to double daily at MAN sooner rather than later.

This need for a daily also applies to a start-up route such as at BHX, so anything less than daily (and preferably at the same time every day) would be madness, especially as EK already do 2 daily at the same times every day with most of their extensive hub connections having regular flights too.

nigel osborne

14th Mar 2013, 12:30

Ringwayman, Suzeman..

2012, 12 month figures;

Qatar. Doha- MAN 245,882 up 7.89% on previous year.Via CAA stats.

Emirates. Dubai-MAN 692.126 up 8.51% " "

Ehihad. Abu Dhabi- MAN 289.492 up 26.24% " "

Nigel

TSR2

14th Mar 2013, 13:05

Blimey, the Emirates flights averaged almost 1,900 passengers per day, every day throughout the year (950 each way). Pretty impressive.

Suzeman

14th Mar 2013, 15:18

Qatar. Doha- MAN 245,882 up 7.89% on previous year.Via CAA stats.

Emirates. Dubai-MAN 692.126 up 8.51% " "

Ehihad. Abu Dhabi- MAN 289.492 up 26.24% " "

Indeed, they have increased their numbers overall in the year. But that is not the point.

As Ringwayman has pointed out, they are losing market share in an expanding market. In other words the PROPORTION of passengers going on QTR is falling as can be seen below; they lost approx 3 percentage points from first to second half of 2012..

Market shares:

Jan-Jun 2012: EK 55.76%, EY 22.60%, QR 21.64%
Jul-Dec 2012: EK 56.97%, EY 24.49%, QR 18.54%

The last 6 months saw QR passenger numbers drop 17% with EK up 8% and EY up 18%. Believe July coincided with the 1st full month with reduced QR frequency

And the point I was making was that the reduced frequency and different operating patterns during the week (when their competitors have a consistent daily programme) is a deterrent to people for whom flight timings and connections are more critical than cost - generally business people who are higher yielding pax.

nigel osborne

14th Mar 2013, 16:13

Gayfriendly,

Al Bakar himself said that to expand there network they needed the 787..they have 60 on order 5 delivered and grounded.

The only other way they can find room for BHX would be to use one of the new 77Ws which of course is far to big, or cut one of thier other flights.

I don't have a crystal ball into the latter but Im not aware of any European services being chopped.

I will make no further comment on this topic its getting silly.

Nigel

geoffco

14th Mar 2013, 21:56

Re: QR
Just be patient, I think.
The size of the new airport at Doha will mean QR will look to expand dramatically in order to make full use of the new facilities. The Dubai economy is struggling whereas Qatar is still pumping gas; given time, QR will go head to head with EK on nearly all routes I think - including Brum.

OltonPete

15th Mar 2013, 17:30

Source: CAA

Pax 534462 up 0.6% rolling year 8914068 up 3.9%

One less day also to be considered.

Individual routes in general looked good although even adjusting for the one less day both EK and PK were down.

Pick of the bunch a 11% increase in CDG with one less day and no extra flights but some 321's. Some routes were down like Zurich And Geneva but in fact load factors were fantastic due less capacity.

ATM's 5394 down 5.8% wow quite a decrease.

Ryanair

High season additions Arricife July and August and a 10th Alicante a week.

A Saturday Malaga and Friday Faro has been known for months.

Pete

BHX5DME

15th Mar 2013, 20:12

DUBLIN 42,380 up 1.76
DUBAI 38,723 down -8.92
AMSTERDAM 34,125 down -3.23
PARIS (CHARLES DE GAULLE) 28,717 up 9.51
EDINBURGH 21,278 down -5.00
BELFAST CITY 19,999 down 14.00
TENERIFE (SURREINA SOFIA) 19,198 down -20.70
FRANKFURT MAIN 19,019 up 4.87
GLASGOW 15,816 up 5.00
MUNICH 14,749 up 18.74
GENEVA 14,337 down -16.47
ALICANTE 13,380 down -22.63
DUSSELDORF 12,907 up 1.41
ARRECIFE 12,561 down -5.31
MALAGA 11,633 down -13.84
BELFAST INT 11,141 n/a
SHARM EL SHEIKH (OPHIRA) 10,263 up 41.79
ZURICH 9,654 down -14.03
FUERTEVENTURA 8,307 up 10.20
BRUSSELS 8,233 down -6.61
ISLAMABAD 6,691 down -15.94
NEW YORK (NEWARK) 6,100 0.00
CORK 6,096 up 3.92
ABERDEEN 6,027 down -3.00
FARO 6,019 up 10.95
COPENHAGEN 5,973 down -3.69
BARCELONA 5,861 up 1336.52
ISTANBUL 5,854 up 38.07
HANOVER 4,981 down -5.48
GRENOBLE 4,911 up 54.63
LAS PALMAS 4,739 down -31.80
BRIDGETOWN 4,095 up 0.37
ASHKHABAD 4,082 down -3.70
BYDGOSZCZ 4,042 up 13.13
ROME (FIUMICINO) 3,998 n/a
INNSBRUCK 3,866 up 21.57
RZESZOW 3,694 up 46.18
BERLIN (TEGEL) 3,523 n/a
DERRY 3,510 down -16.00
CHAMBERY 3,468 down -6.65
SALZBURG 3,265 down -0.15
FUNCHAL 3,073 up 94.86
BERGAMO 3,066 n/a
TURIN 3,025 down -27.58
KRAKOW 2,911 n/a
ISLE OF MAN 2,732 down -13.00
BRATISLAVA 2,643 down -29.09
KATOWICE 2,585 up 22.63
MALTA 2,549 up 1.63
HAMBURG 2,530 up 107.04
PALMA DE MALLORCA 2,522 n/a
VENICE 2,499 n/a
LARNACA 2,207 down -24.78
STOCKHOLM (ARLANDA) 2,183 n/a
JERSEY 2,179 0.00
ENFIDHA 2,170 up 86.91
SHANNON 2,107 down -6.36
CANCUN 2,033 up 15.97
GUERNSEY 2,028 up 14.00
INVERNESS 1,936 down -2.00
MILAN (MALPENSA) 1,823 up 29.66
ILHA DO SAL C.VERDE 1,746 up 8.11
SOFIA 1,733 up 8.93
BOA VISTA (RABIL) 1,722 up 36.45
HURGHADA 1,625 down -10.22
BANJUL 1,613 down -10.24
STUTTGART 1,460 down -46.17
IRELAND WEST(KNOCK) 1,437 down -55.68
TOULOUSE (BLAGNAC) 1,085 down -56.18
PADERBORN 1,082 down -4.25
KITTILA 792 n/a
NEWCASTLE 714 down -36.00
CALGARY 346 n/a
GOTEBORG 276 down -68.95
WATERFORD 273 n/a
BERLIN (SCHONEFELD) 243 n/a
SANTA CRUZ DE LA PALMA 243 n/a
LYON 236 -92.61
KIRUNA 210 n/a
KUUSAMO 114 n/a
TREVISO 97 n/a
DENSE 77 n/a
LE CASTELLET 31 n/a

chuzwuza

17th Mar 2013, 15:16

Just had an interesting chat with a chap who works for a handling agent at bhx who says he has been told that ezy are proposing to base up to ten airframes here in the not too distant future. Anybody else heard anything similar? Sounds a little optimistic to me but you never know in this game.

j636

17th Mar 2013, 15:38

Since Belfast started there has being many rumours about a base. One that I heard just after Belfast started was that there would be 4 or 6 based from end of this month for the summer.

10 aircraft based there seems like madness, 6 at most if it was to happen. Would BHX operation have any impact on LTN?

LAX_LHR

17th Mar 2013, 15:47

If easyjet were to open a base at BHX, it is likely to be 3 based aircraft at most.

3 seems to be the benchmark for trying/testing operations to see what works. SEN opened with 3, NCL remains at 3, EMA was closed at 3 and other airports have opened with 3, but cannot remember which ones.

To open with 10, and more so 10 this year is just spotters fantasy.

chuzwuza

17th Mar 2013, 15:57

I tend to agree with the last post. 3 (at best) sounds a little more like it. We all know how much us blokes can exagerate;)

chaps2011

17th Mar 2013, 15:57

Where are they going to get the airframes from?

Chaps

OltonPete

17th Mar 2013, 16:29

Sources: -

Passenger figures: CAA
Average pax per flight: movements from a BHX Blog, libhomeradar and own notes
Load Factor: estimated from airline website configs and planespotters.net etc
Schedule International routes have been separated and as you can see some high load-factors for February. A couple have been removed as the mix between schedule and IT in the provisional figures are wrong such as SSH and CMF - I believe.

All you can say is what a difference a month makes as these seem good as stand-alone figures but compared to January 2013 they are amazing and not bad against Feb 2012 - Green shoots or shoot?

Fares in general were high on the sun routes but FR cities were lower.

One domestic of interest was Belfast at 116 pax or 74% load factor - fares were originally cheap but not too different to other UK routes.

Additions and corrections welcome

BRUSSELS 8,233 (8816)---39 pax---45%
LARNACA 2,207 (2934)---158 pax---76%
COPENHAGEN 5,973 (6202)---69 pax---64%
GRENOBLE 3396 (1624)----142 pax---78%
PARIS (CDG) 28,717 (26224)---93 pax---75%
BERLIN (TEGEL) 3,523 (nil)---93 pax---67%
DUSSELDORF 12,907 (12728)---50 pax---58%
FRANKFURT MAIN 19,019 (18136)---98 pax---70%
HAMBURG 2,530 (1222)---55 pax---64%
HANOVER 3058 (3018)---55 pax---70%
MUNICH 14,749 (12421)---84 pax---65%
STUTTGART 1,460 (2712)---32 pax----44%
CORK 6,096 (5866)---54 pax---76%
DUBLIN 42,380 (41646)---130 pax-72%
IRELAND WEST(KNOCK) 1437 (3242)---28 pax-55%
SHANNON 2,107 (2250)---41 pax---85%
WATERFORD 273 (nil)-68 pax---88%??? (I only have two flights operating)
BERGAMO 3,066 (nil)---128 pax---68%
MILAN (MXP) 1,823 (1406)---41 pax---47%
ROME (FIUMICINO) 3,998 (nil)---133 pax-75%
VENICE 2,499 (nil)---104 pax---60%
MALTA 2,549 (2508)---159 pax-84%
AMSTERDAM 34,125 (35263)---92 pax---83%
FARO 5702 (5425)---178 pax---88%
FUNCHAL 1549 (nil)---129 pax---74%
ALICANTE 11064 (14932)---184 pax---91%
BARCELONA 5,861 (o)---163 pax---86%
Girona Nil (2340)
MALAGA 10444 (12009)---187 pax---92%
PALMA DE MALLORCA 2,522 (nil)---158 pax 83%
ARRECIFE 5394 (6627)---200 pax---84%
FUERTEVENTURA 2871 (3479)---179 pax---89%
LAS PALMAS 2790 (4200)---174 pax---87%
TENERIFE 12015 (12690)---194 pax--93%
STOCKHOLM (ARN) 2183 (nil)---78 pax-65%
GENEVA 9990 (13047)----143---90% (one flight cancelled?)
ZURICH 9,654 (11229)---79 pax---72%
ISTANBUL 5,854 (4240)---105 pax---68%
PRAGUE nil (3408)
Kaunas nil (2546)
BYDGOSZCZ 4,042 (3573)---168 pax-89%
GDANSK Nil (2403)
KATOWICE 2,585 (2108)---162 pax---85%
KRAKOW 2533 (nil)----158 pax---84%
RZESZOW 3,694 (2597)---154 pax---81%
BRATISLAVA 2,643 (3727)---165 pax---87%
ASHKHABAD 4,082 (4239)----128 pax---74%
DUBAI 38,723 (42515)---345 pax---81%
IS LAMABAD 6,691 (7960) ---239 pax---67%
NEW YORK (NEWARK) 6,100 (6095)---133 pax---78%

Pete

OltonPete

17th Mar 2013, 16:40

I would say the rumours originally were before Christmas after the BFS started and the Madrid base closing but it all went quiet in the New Year.

Surely this year they have missed the optimum time of a January announcement for a May or June start and as chaps2011 stated where would the aircraft come from?

I know easyjet are not shy at removing them from other bases and of course they do have a few more units due this year but I am not sure how many are already allocated (MAN/EDI) and how many more are to leave.

I have to agree with LAX_LHR that anything above three seems unlikely.

I think easy are the missing-link at BHX in terms of short-haul flights but personally a few more non-based in the short-term would be a start.

Geneva averaged 90% and fares seemed to be reasonable to high other than Feb half-term when they were expensive within a few weeks after release.

BFS is getting the numbers although still way below the easyjet network wide load factor but 74% in February is not bad although admit fares were soft until a week before departure (sometimes less on Tues & Wednesday flights).

Pete

Obviously not too late for July/August but time is ticking

hammerb32

17th Mar 2013, 16:42

10 routes maybe but 10 frames seems very wishfull thinking, agree with Peteas well thst it seems a little late to be announcing a new base this year.

FRatSTN

17th Mar 2013, 17:12

It may impact LTN which is why I think they have yet to open a BHX base. Expanding at one place at the expense of another seems to be the trend with EasyJet. SEN growth has drastically reduced STN flights (13 a/c in 2011, only 8 in 2013) and MAN expansion has left LPL with 2 less aircraft this year.

I don't know the exact figures but isn't BHX quite a high cost airport hence why there isn't already an EZY base and FR seem to have stagnated with 4 aircraft with the bulk of its growth at EMA.

With pratically every other major carrier in the UK (FR, BE, LS, ZB, TOM and TCX) all having bases in EMA, EZY have well and truely lost any chance of re-opening a base there.

The fact that BE and ZB both have a very large operation in BHX as well as TOM and TCX where BHX is one of their main bases along with the FR basing 4 a/c, is there enough demand for EZY in open a base in BHX?

I'm not ruling it out, just speculating. It would be great news. It would save going to LTN to get any decent range of EZY flights for us in the Midlands, but the Midlands is still quite well served without them.

Guest 112233

17th Mar 2013, 21:34

OP, BHX Analysis - thanks, as always interesting reading.

Your work always beats the hype/Spin brigade.

OltonPete

17th Mar 2013, 22:24

CATIII-NDB

Cheers.

One correction from a pm and much appreciated but I was suspicious of the high load factor and that is Waterford. Three were scheduled but I only picked up two from libhomeradar but the missing one was the re-starts service on 22/2 which did operate I believe, making it 46 per flight and 58% load factor but not too bad after its little holiday.

Good to seek EK back over 80% also with 110 out of 112 movements on 428/442 seat aircraft.

FRatSTN - I think charges could still be an issue at BHX for FR going by how well the existing flights are doing.

The load factors in February on most routes are well above the network wide figure of 77% (except LDY & BGY) although I do concede some city routes were heavily discounted but at times only one or two of the based aircraft were flying with between 10 and 12 parked up.

The main moans I have heard this winter is the lack choice from BHX and the flights available have been expensive with countless tales of lost pax to Luton, East Mids and Stansted.

Pete

rn750

18th Mar 2013, 15:45

The main moans I have heard this winter is the lack choice from BHX and the flights available have been expensive with countless tales of lost pax to Luton, East Mids and Stansted.

But we keep being told by various sources there is no demand from BHX.. The demand is obviously there.. just not being serviced by the airlines..

:ugh::ugh:

It is so frustrating.

Adie

chinapattern

18th Mar 2013, 16:55

I’d hope that if EZY did ever set up a base at BHX then they’d go for some un-served routes rather than just the typical bucket and space flights.

GayFriendly

18th Mar 2013, 18:42

The demand is there but it seems airlines are happy for us in the West Midlands to travel to other airports from where it is cheaper for them to operate from. I for one in the past two years have flown from LTN, EMA, LPL and MAN primarily because there was no direct flight to where I was going from BHX and having researched connecting flight prices from BHX, it was considerably cheaper to do so. Although connecting options to European cities are readily available from BHX with LH, LX, AF etc they are often quite expensive. I'm flying to ZAG next week, cheapest connecting flight from BHX was around the £270 mark, BA from LHR direct was around £100. I'm not saying there should be a BHX-ZAG flight but that it easy for me to get to LHR and cheap to fly from there for this journey, even factoring in the cost of getting to LHR. Total journey time via LHR is little different to the flight connections I was offered by LH from BHX. Am sure there are thousands of other similar examples to more obvious destinations like MAD, LIS etc that other UK airports happily manage to maintain services to.

I have always said that BHX's central location and pretty good transport links are both a blessing and a curse.

chinapattern

18th Mar 2013, 18:49

bucket and space flights

Obviously that was meant to read bucket and spade! Thought I'd better make that clear before planeaddict gets carried away and starts posting about Virgin Gallactic flying from BHX!

Am sure there are thousands of other similar examples to more obvious destinations like MAD, LIS etc that other UK airports happily manage to maintain services to.

Same thing happened to me; much cheaper and quicker to fly MAN-PSA direct with Jet2 than going from BHX via CDG or MUC.

groundhogbhx

18th Mar 2013, 20:54

OP

EK don't have any 442 seaters, haven't had for some time!

OltonPete

18th Mar 2013, 22:04

groundhogbhx

Cheers, the EK source still showing BV and CB as 442, when did they change?

I know it can be a little out of date at times but BX & BZ were amended recently leaving jsut BV and CB.

Unfortunately it hasn't altered the load factor still 81% but not too far behind Manchester and they are talking about a 4th.

Pete

bazzab68

19th Mar 2013, 09:52

All

Taken from twitter and scheduled to be announced later today is the bhx- Bll is
due for re-instatement. No airline is mentioned but u can guess at Bmi Regional
in place of there moved Tls flight.

@TheHUBRoutes: From #RoutesAsia in Mumbai we can exclusively bring news of new
route announcement from @bhx_official due later today... a link to Billund.

Regards

Barry

future_pilot17

19th Mar 2013, 10:09

All sounds good! Hopefully it all works out for bmi on this front.

I also notice on the same twitter feed, this post....

"Deepak Brara, Commercial Director, Air India reveals plans for new flights to
Australia, Italy & second point in the UK during #RoutesAsia."

Interesting, even if it is all talk. Do you suspect he's talking about a return
to BHX or heading further north? Either way I suspect they are the only two
options.

Tom

GayFriendly

19th Mar 2013, 11:53

NEW ROUTE: BHX-BLL :D

Now bookable on BMI website as follows, starts 3rd June:

BHX 0700 BLL 0940 BM1451 Mon-Fri
BLL 1010 BHX 1100 BM1452 Mon-Fri

And an afternoon departure on Sundays

These of course were the TLS flight times before they were changed a couple of weeks ago

I really hope things work out for BMI Regional @ BHX. They have added four new routes for the airport this summer which is very positive news, they must see potential in BHX. I'm flying to LYS with them in May and TLS in August.

Sadly no mention of BHX on the AI site just yet.......

LAX_LHR

19th Mar 2013, 12:27

Deepak Brara, Commercial Director, Air India reveals plans for new flights toAustralia, Italy & second point in the UK during #RoutesAsia."

Interesting, even if it is all talk. Do you suspect he's talking about a return
to BHX or heading further north? Either way I suspect they are the only two
options.

Whilst I fully expect it to be BHX, especially if they market an ATQ-DEL-BHX same plane flight, it could go either way.

Both AI and 9W bigwigs have had several meetings and 'tours' of MAN in the past 6 months (9W likely to be the series of charter flights they have coming up), the market for DEL is actually larger at MAN than BHX (ATQ is BHX's market), and that is AI's main hub.

Like I say, fully expect BHX, but give they were looking to hub at DUB at one point, who knows what AI will come up with, they will probably end up at Dundee!

Centre cities

19th Mar 2013, 12:39

My penny is on nothing anywhere.

Centre cities

ATNotts

19th Mar 2013, 12:47

And my Rupee is on whichever airport has enough postal votes in any upcoming Indian election to swing the "Punjab Central" seat the government's way!!

Suzeman

19th Mar 2013, 13:06

Here's the AI article

Air India Set for International Network Growth :: Routesonline (http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/breaking-news/189045/air-india-set-for-international-network-growth/)

Planeaddict

19th Mar 2013, 18:42

"Taken from twitter and scheduled to be announced later today is the bhx- Bll is
due for re-instatement. No airline is mentioned but u can guess at Bmi Regional
in place of there moved Tls flight."

Have they served there before?

And regarding AI, I think there are three options. BHX, MAN and possibly DUB.

hammerb32

19th Mar 2013, 18:45

DUB's not in the UK so would dubt it, has to be either MAN or BHX if indeed a second city is served.

VickersVicount

19th Mar 2013, 20:02

the article says Europe not just UK so DUB is equally within a chance

OltonPete

19th Mar 2013, 20:18

As BMIR have announced the launch of the above route I thought I would take a look at the past figures.

It appears BMIR will be the 4th different airline to attempt the route.

I have New Air until 1997, then Sun Air from April 2005 until June 2007 and finally Ryanair from June 2008 until early November 2009.

In 2009 Ryanair carried 32888 at average of 120 pax or 63% load factor

Sunair carried

2007 - 2091 pax at 13 per flight
2006 - 4372 pax at 12 per flight
2005 - 3619 pax at 14 per flight

I can't remember the aircraft type

New Air carried

1997 - 4638
1996 - 5467
1995 - 5812

Source: CAA

Certainly interesting and before Oslo.

Peter

groundhogbhx

19th Mar 2013, 20:54

I'm sure the Sunair was an ATP in BA colours.

Ringwayman

19th Mar 2013, 21:06

Found articles stating Sunair planned on operating 6 weekly Do328s.

The Newair service did either BLL-MAN-BHX-BLL or BLL-BHX-MAN-BLL using F27. with flight number NAW425

roverman

19th Mar 2013, 22:26

The article says 'a second stop in the UK' (not Europe, although Italy is also mentioned) and so it can only be MAN or BHX, can't see anywhere else having the market.

j636

20th Mar 2013, 13:24

Add MUC, DUB and LGW to Air India rumours.

European airports woo Indian airlines | Business Standard (http://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/european-airports-woo-indian-carriers-113031900284_1.html)

Daza

21st Mar 2013, 15:29

Birmingham was the UKs most punctual airport in the last quarter of 2012. Both scheduled and charter flights on-time performance was significantly above the national average. Source CAA :ok:
See the link below.

Birmingham is the UK's Most Punctual Airport - Birmingham Airport (http://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/meta/news/2013/03/punctual-airport-article.aspx)

Daza

OltonPete

22nd Mar 2013, 21:11

A prompt from the LDY thread produced some goodies

Quite a few additions and although some are only August a couple are as early as June.

Obviously determined not to let Monarch muscle in on Barcelona too much as Ryanair's four a week service now goes six a week from the first week in June until the last week in August - just 13 weekly flights in high summer to BCN!

One I never understood why it has never happened in previous years on a Thursday after MJV - BHX is BHX-LDY. It could have done that the last two years.

Arrecife also sees an increase in August with a 4th weekly flight operated from the ACE base on a Sunday in at 11.20 out 11.45.

One other change is the last Dublin on a Saturday operates from the BHX base departing at 20.25 changing from a Dublin based aircraft.

Already known extras: -

Friday Alicante 17.30-17.55 July and August

Friday Faro 11.20-11.45 August only

Saturday Malaga 17.25-17.50 August only

In August it makes 42 away based flights which is at least is the equivalent of two extra based aircraft

Dublin 18
Barcelona 5
Malaga 5
Faro 4
Palma 3
Alicante 3
Bergamo 2
Girona 1
Arrecife 1

Pete

FlyboyUK

24th Mar 2013, 03:43

Cheers for another informative update, so what's the schedule looking like for the BHX based aircraft?

FRatSTN

24th Mar 2013, 11:01

Below is the entire weekly timetable for FR flights from BHX for August 2013:

MONDAY
FR662 07:30 Dublin
FR2812 12:30 Montpellier
FR3902 13:50 Malta
FR9162 14:20 Barcelona
FR3742 15:40 Fuerteventura
FR1109 15:45 Londonderry
FR1449 16:00 Lanzarote
FR666 16:25 Dublin
FR2153 20:55 Alicante
FR672 22:00 Dublin
FR1254 22:05 Katowice
FR2155 22:50 Murcia
FR2157 23:35 Malaga

FR3901 06:25 Malta
FR3741 06:35 Fuerteventura
FR1448 07:00 Lanzarote
FR663 07:55 Dublin
FR2811 08:10 Montpellier
FR1108 12:55 Londonderry
FR9163 14:45 Barcelona
FR2152 14:50 Alicante
FR1253 16:35 Katowice
FR667 16:50 Dublin
FR2154 17:05 Murcia
FR2156 17:10 Malaga
FR673 22:25 Dublin

TUESDAY
FR662 07:30 Dublin
FR2163 08:35 Palma de Mallorca
FR2157 08:55 Malaga
FR1464 09:40 Milan-Bergamo
FR1999 11:30 Perpignan
FR3712 11:35 Faro
FR749 11:50 Gdansk
FR9162 12:40 Barcelona
FR666 14:45 Dublin
FR2153 14:50 Alicante
FR1122 16:40 Tenerife-South
FR9474 16:45 Barcelona-Girona
FR2712 21:05 Ibiza
FR672 21:40 Dublin
FR735 22:50 Bratislava
FR1213 23:05 Bydgoszcz
FR2155 23:50 Murcia

FR748 06:30 Gdansk
FR1998 06:50 Perpignan
FR1121 07:15 Tenerife-South
FR663 07:55 Dublin
FR2152 08:45 Alicante
FR2162 09:00 Palma de Mallorca
FR2156 09:35 Malaga
FR1463 10:05 Milan-Bergamo
FR9473 11:55 Barcelona-Girona
FR3711 12:00 Faro
FR9163 13:05 Barcelona
FR667 15:10 Dublin
FR2711 15:10 Ibiza
FR734 17:25 Bratislava
FR1212 17:55 Bydgoszcz
FR2154 17:55 Murcia
FR673 22:05 Dublin

WEDNESDAY
FR662 07:30 Dublin
FR2157 08:25 Malaga
FR1083 11:05 Barcelona-Reus
FR1215 13:40 Kaunas
FR2163 14:45 Palma de Mallorca
FR9162 16:00 Barcelona
FR1129 16:05 Gran Canaria
FR666 16:25 Dublin
FR1449 16:40 Lanzarote
FR1466 16:45 Krakow
FR1109 17:20 Londonderry
FR672 22:00 Dublin
FR1254 23:05 Katowice
FR2150 23:15 Alicante
FR1085 23:45 Rzeszow
FR2153 23:50 Alicante

FR1082 06:10 Barcelona-Reus
FR1128 06:45 Gran Canaria
FR1214 07:30 Kaunas
FR1448 07:40 Lanzarote
FR663 07:55 Dublin
FR2156 09:05 Malaga
FR1465 11:30 Krakow
FR1108 14:30 Londonderry
FR2162 15:10 Palma de Mallorca
FR9163 16:25 Barcelona
FR667 16:50 Dublin
FR2151 17:10 Alicante
FR1253 17:35 Katowice
FR1084 17:45 Rzeszow
FR2152 17:45 Alicante
FR673 22:25 Dublin

THURSDAY
FR662 07:30 Dublin
FR2157 09:05 Malaga
FR3712 11:35 Faro
FR9162 12:05 Barcelona
FR2163 12:10 Palma de Mallorca
FR1464 12:40 Milan-Bergamo
FR666 13:30 Dublin
FR2712 13:30 Ibiza
FR1122 16:45 Tenerife-South
FR1097 17:00 Trieste
FR2155 19:05 Murcia
FR2153 20:35 Alicante
FR1109 22:20 Londonderry
FR672 21:40 Dublin
FR1213 23:05 Bydgoszcz
FR735 23:55 Bratislava

FR2162 06:35 Palma de Mallorca
FR1121 07:20 Tenerife-South
FR2711 07:35 Ibiza
FR663 07:55 Dublin
FR2156 09:45 Malaga
FR3711 12:00 Faro
FR1096 12:05 Trieste
FR9163 12:30 Barcelona
FR1463 13:05 Milan-Bergamo
FR2154 13:20 Murcia
FR667 13:55 Dublin
FR2152 14:30 Alicante
FR1212 17:55 Bydgoszcz
FR734 18:30 Bratislava
FR1108 19:30 Londonderry
FR673 22:05 Dublin

FRIDAY
FR662 07:30 Dublin
FR3712 11:20 Faro
FR1254 12:00 Katowice
FR2153 12:25 Alicante
FR1109 15:45 Londonderry
FR1449 16:10 Lanzarote
FR666 16:25 Dublin
FR3742 17:00 Fuerteventura
FR2150 17:30 Alicante
FR1083 17:40 Barcelona-Reus
FR672 22:00 Dublin
FR2812 22:25 Montpellier
FR9162 23:15 Barcelona
FR2157 23:25 Malaga
FR3902 23:59 Malta

FR2152 06:20 Alicante
FR1253 06:30 Katowice
FR1448 07:10 Lanzarote
FR663 07:55 Dublin
FR3741 07:55 Fuerteventura
FR3711 11:45 Faro
FR1082 12:45 Barcelona-Reus
FR1108 12:55 Londonderry
FR3901 16:35 Malta
FR667 16:50 Dublin
FR2156 17:00 Malaga
FR2151 17:55 Alicante
FR2811 18:05 Montpellier
FR9163 18:05 Barcelona
FR673 22:25 Dublin

SATURDAY
FR662 07:30 Dublin
FR9474 08:00 Barcelona-Girona
FR749 11:50 Gdansk
FR1464 13:05 Milan-Bergamo
FR2155 13:45 Murcia
FR1122 16:10 Tenerife-South
FR2257 17:25 Malaga
FR1999 17:30 Perpignan
FR666 18:05 Dublin
FR3712 18:55 Faro
FR2163 19:35 Palma de Mallorca
FR2153 20:00 Alicante
FR672 23:00 Dublin
FR1213 23:05 Bydgoszcz
FR2157 23:35 Malaga
FR735 23:55 Bratislava

FR748 06:30 Gdansk
FR1121 06:45 Tenerife-South
FR1463 07:00 Milan-Bergamo
FR2154 07:45 Murcia
FR663 07:55 Dublin
FR9473 08:25 Barcelona-Girona
FR1998 12:50 Perpignan
FR2152 13:55 Alicante
FR667 15:30 Dublin
FR2156 17:10 Malaga
FR2256 17:50 Malaga
FR1212 17:55 Bydgoszcz
FR734 18:30 Bratislava
FR3711 19:20 Faro
FR2162 20:00 Palma de Mallorca
FR673 20:25 Dublin

SUNDAY
FR662 07:30 Dublin
FR2157 09:15 Malaga
FR1449 11:20 Lanzarote
FR1215 12:35 Kaunas
FR1085 12:45 Rzeszow
FR2163 13:55 Palma de Mallorca
FR9162 15:50 Barcelona
FR1129 16:10 Gran Canaria
FR1097 18:20 Trieste
FR1466 19:35 Krakow
FR2153 19:35 Alicante
FR2712 21:05 Ibiza
FR672 21:40 Dublin
FR1109 22:50 Londonderry
FR2150 23:20 Alicante
FR1083 23:40 Barcelona-Reus

FR1214 06:25 Kaunas
FR1084 06:40 Rzeszow
FR1128 06:50 Gran Canaria
FR663 07:55 Dublin
FR2162 08:20 Palma de Mallorca
FR2156 09:55 Malaga
FR1448 11:45 Lanzarote
FR1096 13:25 Trieste
FR1465 14:20 Krakow
FR2711 15:00 Ibiza
FR9163 16:20 Barcelona
FR2151 17:15 Alicante
FR1082 18:45 Barcelona-Reus
FR1108 20:00 Londonderry
FR2152 20:00 Alicante
FR673 22:05 Dublin

Based aircraft: 4
Destinations: 27
Total weekly flights: 218 (109 arr/109 dep)

groundhogbhx

24th Mar 2013, 22:19

OP

A quick check of the system show that there are no 442 seaters still in the fleet, all now have the Mk 2 business config and 42/386 config.

Monty Gordo

26th Mar 2013, 16:41

Clearly it would appear there was little substance in recent posts suggesting that Easyjet might establish a base at BHX for the summer. However, they are releasing their winter routes (up until March, tomorrow). Apart from the expected, could there be a surprise in store?

OltonPete

26th Mar 2013, 18:48

groundhogbhx

Cheers - makes the load factor look slightly better! Some of the websites I use for seating plans can be a little slow with updates

Sanford

Thomas Cook Sanford bookable 11/4/2014-25/04/2014 - is this just an Easter one off flight or anything more permanent in the offing?

Pete

groundhogbhx

26th Mar 2013, 21:49

ENI will also be 42/386 and is due soon :ok:

OltonPete

26th Mar 2013, 22:29

EK

ENI has just gone over Yelloeknife at 35000ft on delivery to Dubai!!!

I notice Manchester is getting the 487 seat A380's from June until the end of August and I suppose the three class 777's will be showing up at BHX as well.

March has seen an all 428 seat operation thus far - hopefully a sign loads have recovered.

Pete

Jonnyf

27th Mar 2013, 10:57

Belfast as of the 31st October goes 3x daily on Thursday and Friday. Rest of the week stays 2x daily except Saturday that stays at 1x daily.

Daza

27th Mar 2013, 14:42

More speculation on UK- India flights with Air India see the link below :ok:

Air India to start Melbourne, Milan (http://www.anna.aero/2013/03/27/air-india-to-start-melbourne-milan-but-not-manchester-as-its-second-point-in-the-uk/?utm_source=anna.aero+newsletter&utm_campaign=689f8ab86b-anna_nl_270313&utm_medium=email#)

Daza

LAX_LHR

27th Mar 2013, 15:15

I personally wouldn't read too much into the quote just yet.

The quote regarding Birmingham is not anything from AI itself, but the opinion of the author, who has an obvious bias towards BHX due to his previous role (and as good as admits that bias).

In his dismissal of MAN, he has totally overlooked the fact Delhi is AI's main long haul hub, and Delhi on its own has a larger demand to MAN than BHX.

Don't forget though, this is Air India we are talking about, the obvious choice isn't always the choice they go for....

Daza

27th Mar 2013, 15:39

LAX_LHR wrote
Delhi on its own has a larger demand to MAN than BHX.

Where do you get this information from? Can you provide evidence to support this?

According to the 2001 census there are almost 200,000 people in the West Midlands whos' families have their origin in India as opposed to just over 100,000 in the Northwest. Remember that Leicester and the East Midlands also has a large population of people whos' families are from India too (143,000) and Leicester/Nottingham/Derby are easily accessible from Birmingham Airport.
Link British Indian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Indian)

Indeed Birmingham and the West Midlands has more people whos' families originated outside the UK than any other city outside London with the exception of the Chinese community where Birmingham and Manchester are equal second and Italian community which is relatively low in the West Midlands.
Link Lists of UK locations with large ethnic minority populations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_UK_locations_with_large_Indian_populations)

Daza

LAX_LHR

27th Mar 2013, 16:19

Daz, I think we are talking about 2 separate markets here.

BHX has its strong point, and obvious larger market in Armitsar and the Punjab region.

Therefore, if we translate this into route talk, a BHX-ATQ route would trump just about any other UK and European point.

However, DELHI, and just DELHI, has a higher O&D from MAN than BHX. I will have to see if there is public link, but, the CAA have produced figures where MAN-XXX-DEL was around 75,000 pax per anum, with another 20,000 travelling over ground to other points to get to DEL.

BHX had around 56,000 BHX-XXX-DEL flights, with a leakage of around 16,000 over ground.

Now, you can quote figures for all of India as much as you like, as we all know BHX-XXX-India on the whole trumps MAN, but, I am talking about DELHI, Air India's hub and DELHI alone, not INDIA as a whole.

It is evident the market I also more sought after as DEL are offering an incentive for a carrier to start DEL-MAN, and not BHX.

Indeed Birmingham and the West Midlands has more people whos' families originated outside the UK than any other city outside London with the exception of the Chinese community where Birmingham and Manchester are equal second and Italian community which is relatively low in the West Midlands

Probably starting a bun fight here, Manchester's Chinese population is, and always has been larger than Brum's, and Im sure you will find the fact that according to Wikipedia, Manc and Brum have exactly the same population a bit suspect? However, I will let you off as I see we are trusting the ever reliable Wikipedia, the source of 100% fact where only those in the authority can edit the entries. Oh, hang on.....

While we are on the 'trusting wikipedia' moment, I see Manchester is only 4,000 or so behind Birmingham for the size of the Indian community, hardly a stellar lead that make an India link to Brum so obvious is it?

It also shows how distorted the travel market is, because, despite the larger populations in B'hm, MAN has more Pakistan flights, had the Bangladesh flights and has a scheduled carribean flight