BIRMINGHAM - 6 [Archive] - Page 7

LAX_LHR

5th Dec 2013, 19:17

Nigel,

You say the figures are meaningless but lets face it they are not.

The table shows that for every BHX passenger to China, there are at least 2.5 from MAN. That points to the likely outcome that most, if not all the China destinations are bigger from MAN. Also, even on the very off chance BHX has a higher number to destination XYZ, the sheer fact MAN is more than twice the size of the BHX market at this time still means MAN stands a better chance of a route for the numerous connection oppertunities.

Also, you say the figures are meaningless, but, lets be 100% honest with here, if the MAN and BHX figures were swapped I have a sneaky suspicion the figures would not be so meaningless then, in fact, likely to be highly promoted.

Ringwayman

5th Dec 2013, 19:21

North West

5th Dec 2013, 19:52

And we need to remember that Hainan Airlines is launching Beijing-Boston on the back of, wait for it, approximately the same number of visitors from all over China going to Boston as there are who MAN bound.

Rather proving the point I think many have been making, which is that they are at best only a small part of the story and at worst, misleading

Still, if it helps the my town is better than your town brigade feel better about themselves, then they have at least some use

nigel osborne

5th Dec 2013, 21:24

LAX-LHR

Think we will have to agree to disagree on the question of meaning and usefulness of the figures.

Your entitled to your opinion and can see where your coming from, but it can only be wild speculation.Nobody knows how many are from which region especially if they are transiting on different airlines and alliances through different airports to get to MAN :confused:

In relation to your BHX comments again disagree due to exactly the same reason ,any BHX figures are meaningless too in my opinion anyway.Although until after another pointed out the obvious that being a bit thick I had missed..:ouch:

Nigel

LAX_LHR

5th Dec 2013, 21:29

Think we will have to agree to disagree on the question of meaning and
usefulness of the figures.

I think we will Nigel, as when you look back at the history of MAN vs BHX debates, I have a very very hard time believing these figures would have been seen as meaningless had BHX been shown more favourably, but there you go.

LAX_LHR

6th Dec 2013, 11:22

HOWEVER, it doesn't work like that. People don't necessarily flock to a
non-stop service especially one that is not daily. If they are on business they
won't sit in (and pay for) a Beijing hotel for an extra day waiting for the
non-stop flight, instead they'll be on Lufthansa or Finnair or any of the other
'hub' possibilities to get home asap.

I agree with you to an extent, but, to say this in a very layman's term, surely all routes have to start somewhere?

There are so, so many routes in history that started less than daily, and for long 'thin' routes such as MAN/BHX-PEK, a daily flight is likely to be overkill initially and gives the route less chance of working than one that starts off less than daily.

It could be seen as a catch 22. Not enough punters to go in at a daily level, but then punters reluctant to book a flight that is less than daily.

Bagso

6th Dec 2013, 15:57

And until MAG somehow address the issue of the price comparison web sites it will be dead within 6 months !

The default position is geared to lowest price which can mean you cannot even find departures on those services that operate already as price dumping means it can be cheaper to fly back an hour to Amsterdam , Frankfurt or Paris than fly direct.

I am not sure how you get round it but I do find it bizarre that somebody hasn't questioned this, it penalises Manchester everytime as our flights are totally buried.

hammerb32

6th Dec 2013, 16:32

Bagso - is it really that much of an issue? Loads from MAN, likewise BHX look excellent on long haul routes, if this is acheived without the passengers looking for the lowest prices I'd suggest this is a healthy sign.

PPRuNe Pop

6th Dec 2013, 16:45

To those who persist in trying to always associate MAN with BHX - please cut it out. The thread is regarding BHX and if you want to talk about MAN go there. Sop trying to score points - there are none available. STAY ON TOPIC!

bhx bod

6th Dec 2013, 17:19

Apparently there is a Kalitta 747(probably)charter on Monday 9th.Anybody any further info?

nigel osborne

6th Dec 2013, 19:11

Reported elsewhere an 08.30 arrival Mon , lets hope its not cancelled.

Nigel

Bagso

6th Dec 2013, 21:24

Apols MODs....the BHX forum has become so infected I "actually thought" I was replying to a post ABOUT MAN not BHX !

LAX_LHR

7th Dec 2013, 05:16

Apparently there is a Kalitta B747 due at 0900 to EMA too. Likely to be the same aircraft that is rumoured for BHX so wonder which airport its likely to drop into?

OltonPete

7th Dec 2013, 09:10

LAX_LHR

The rumour is that the EMA one is the BHX one and mentioned on certain FB pages. Never mind still time to get them and just noticed one of their 742's climbing out of Brize!

Santa flights

These seem reasonably healthy this year (assuming they are Santa flights) with flybe KTT on Wednesdays and another tomorrow, Enter Air tomorrow to Enontekio and a Thomson RVM tomorrow.

This and the MAEL hangar has livened a normally quiet period up although no sign of the new flybe 175 due for delivery to the facility at BHX soon, G-INFO still not showing it as registered.

Seems as if will find out next week about any flybe route changes, the timetable thus far next summer just shows increases but I am sure that will change.

Pete

nigel osborne

7th Dec 2013, 10:16

LAX-LHR

Yup you are bang on the Kalitta 747 going into EMA.. They had contacted BHX 2 nights ago enquiring about calling here.

However no surprise its now going to EMA. Very used to dealing with 747Fs their.

Also with all the runway resurfacing, and extension and fact we are Cat 1 only because of such ,sure BHX wouldn't want it chucking up even more dirt than the EK is at present.

Nigel

LAX_LHR

7th Dec 2013, 10:23

That's ashame.

Not many of those B747 classics knocking about at UK airports now, certainly been a while since I personally saw one.

nigel osborne

7th Dec 2013, 10:47

Our last one at BHX was the Transero 743 diverted prior to scrapping.

Nigel

bhx bod

7th Dec 2013, 15:26

Yes a real shame.The 747 is no longer the queen of the skies.
airlines now preferring large twin jets for their long-haul flights.
For me though jumbos are still amongst the most graceful aircraft ever made.
Love watching them on what I call lazy departures from
LHR.They just seem to hang in the air!!!

crewmeal

8th Dec 2013, 05:43

Just for info I wrote to Air Blue 3 weeks ago asking why they cancelled theri services as I had friends travelling on a booked flight. This was there answer just received:

Thank you for writing to us and providing us with your valuable feedback because without customers' feedback it would not be possible to serve them better. Please accept our sincerest apologies against your unpleasant experience however, we assure you that your concerns have been taken in consideration to improve the service standards in future.

For any other query feel free to contact,

UAN (+92) 51 111-247-258 or (+44) 161 235 8794 (Available 24/7)
Manchester office at (+44) 161 236 5550
Dubai Office at (+971) 4.295.9696

We look forward to welcoming you on an Airblue flight soon.

Thank you.
Regards,

Sana Ali
Airblue Customer Care.

Unpleasent experience? What experience?

LAX_LHR

8th Dec 2013, 15:16

Unpleasent experience? What experience?

Translation:

''We started reading your letter, saw it was a complaint and couldn't be bothered to read anymore, we don't like complaints.''

''Please accept the most generic of email responses, bye bye now''.

GayFriendly

8th Dec 2013, 19:06

"We look forward to welcoming you on an Airblue flight soon"

What they forgot to say: "Just as long as you not wanting to fly from BHX, a nice little airport in the UK we flew to for a few weeks to give our A340 something to do before we couldn't be bothered anymore"

I should imagine PIA are happy they have BHX-ISB back to themselves

Any news on Biman? Nothing on their website and BHX mysteriously silent too, apart from PK talking about it during that Midlands Today interview, was that the kiss of death?

nigel osborne

8th Dec 2013, 20:20

Gay Friendly,

Biman are hardly the most reliable airline, and after the farce with the joint smiley faces picky of Mr K and Armavia boss launching the BHX Armavia service..when the airline didn't have a licence to operate the route just a 1 off..BHX may be more cautios.

At BHX we have learnt its never nailed till its landed and er done at least half a dozen flights :bored:

Nigel

GayFriendly

8th Dec 2013, 21:34

Nigel

Yes wise words indeed! Rumour is Biman still don't have permission to fly to the U.S unless they use European registered aircraft and crew - if true that must put the whole operation in doubt. Let us not forget this was a flight long rumoured to return to MAN and I believe also operated for a short time through BRU before being swiftly pulled. I have grave doubts it will happen, but then I said the same about AI and they did turn up and seem to be doing quite well too.

Armavia was an interesting one, flights from BHX were bookable for months in advance on their website, in fact I started looking at guide books to plan a trip to India as the flights were competitively priced to onwards to ATQ. A true basket case airline that allowed you to book flights well in advance knowing they didn't have licence to operate.....the licence issue was to do with onward connections to ATQ although these were bookable too. BHX-Yerevan flights would have never existed as a stand alone route so perhaps that's why they never got going. All academic anyway as the airline itself has now disappeared!

OltonPete

8th Dec 2013, 22:21

Winter 2014/5

Modest increase in flights with the new Hurghada staying at 2 a week.

Other increase - Alicante 4 to 5 and Las Palmas 1 to 2.

Decreases Tenerife 7 to 6.

Static - GIB 3, ACE 3, FUE 1, FAO, 3, AGP 4, LCA 2, SSH 3, FCO 2 & GNB 2.

Like this winter Venice doesn't operate.

Five aircraft required on occassions as this winter.

Pete

nigel osborne

9th Dec 2013, 10:24

Gayfriendly

BHX can't half attract them :rolleyes:

Oh for a 5 star airline one day..yup one day :)

Nigel

ATNotts

9th Dec 2013, 11:49

I thought BHX already had:-

Lufthansa, Air France, KLM, United, Swiss, Emirates, Turkish, SAS, SN Brussels, Aer Lingus.

I could name a whole hat full of UK airports that would give their eye teeth for half of that list.

Anyway, it's not two dozen posts or so away that BHX desperately needed low cost - no service - airlines!

nigel osborne

9th Dec 2013, 14:29

AT NOTTS

I almost give up :ugh:

For your info

SAS Brussels ,Aer Lingus, United are only 3 star airlines !!

TK,,KL ,AF,LH are 4 star airlines.

Only 5 star airlines at present are;

Qatar, Singapore, Cathay, ANA, MAS, Asiana, Hainan

I was being light hearted hence the smiley face.. lighten up just for once :)

There is also nothing wrong with BHX hoping to get new LCC and new long haul either is there ?

Nigel

ATNotts

9th Dec 2013, 15:39

Ahh I apologise - I wasn't thinking in terms of "rated" 5* airlines, but then you've got to ask who is handing out the stars, how are they awarded, and what do they actually mean. I've stayed a few 4 star hotels that I personally wouldn't award with a minor planet! (My employer has got more sense than to allow people to waste money on 5 star anything!).

The chances of BHX picking up more than perhaps two of these are some stage in the far off future are really pretty remote - and by time BHX get them, they'll probably have been knocked off their pedestal having become complacent, or too big!

Fact remains that BHX has got far more quality carriers than most UK airports, and really, given the general dumbing down of passenger service in the last decade or so, that's no mean feat.

insuindi

9th Dec 2013, 18:38

BHX-HAJ has been pushed back to the 17.xx timing of previous years for summer 2014, indicating some major changes to aircraft rotations. Also, Sunday evening appear timed for Dash8, so far E175.

BHX-STR appears to be cut to 6/7.

Daza

9th Dec 2013, 22:01

Flybe Birmingham-Knock is bookable daily from Sunday 30th March 2014 (May change). Waterford despite excellent loads this past few months remains at 4 weekly.
Daza

OltonPete

9th Dec 2013, 22:26

Extensive changes but overall not doom and gloom route wise if the same can't be said for job losses. The BHX schedule (if finalised) shows a net increase I believe in flights but a loss of seats with the away based EDI, GLA and BHD flights changing to the Q400.

BHX goes from 10 aircraft based to 9 and it appears the jets stay the same as now 1 x 195 and 3 x 175 with 2 x 195's leaving compared to last summer. As mentioned t previously no route loses but Stuttgart once a day at 09.55-14.34 and Hanvover moves to 17.00 departure.

The three based 175's operate 8 sectors each although one of the schedules is out of sync.

BHX-EDI-BHX-LYS-BHX-EDI-BHX-EDI
BHX-BHD-BHX-ABZ-BHX-MXP-BHX-BHD-BHX
BHX-DUS-BHX-BHD-BHX-DUS-BHX-DUS-BHX

As you can see MXP is a downgrade from the 118 seat 195 last summer and the BHD as well.

The Monday & Friday BHX - JER third service is cut but Amsterdam seems to go three daily except Saturday but that increases to two flights and three on a Sunday is an increase.

EDI is showing four daily on a Saturday and five on a Sunday, the Saturday is definitely an increase.

So it seems IOM survives and if it does get cut it will take quite a bit of timetable changes and you think this would have been done today.

Pete

Centre cities

10th Dec 2013, 08:43

Olton Pete.

Why the focus on the IOM, was this route particularly at risk.

Centre cities

bhx bod

11th Dec 2013, 12:22

The first FlyDubai 738 to receive attention from MAEL arrived @ 0630 this morning,direct from Boeing field.
It looks like MAEL will provide the best BHX movements for the foreseeable future.

crewmeal

11th Dec 2013, 15:42

What can Monarch do to a brand new ME registered 737 that Boeing can't?

Evanelpus

11th Dec 2013, 15:48

What can Monarch do to a brand new ME registered 737 that Boeing can't?

Absolutely nothing I would think but maybe Boeing wants it off the shop floor quick so they can get the space back to build some more. Maybe the IFE is being installed or specific customer modifications, seating; who knows.

nigel osborne

11th Dec 2013, 16:24

Good day today at BHX.

Fly Dubai arrived, then later a BA 747,767 and PIA LHR fog divs :)

Nigel

Suzeman

11th Dec 2013, 21:07

What can Monarch do to a brand new ME registered 737 that Boeing can't?

Interior fit apparently.

Last two FDB 737 deliveries were worked on by Monarch at Luton

nigel osborne

12th Dec 2013, 08:29

AT Notts,

The people handing out the stars are passengers who travel with the airlines so its the people that count .:ok:

Airlines are rated by them in all aspects of the airline, from check in, transfer, seating in all classes, entertainment, dining, crew helpfulness/friendliness, you name it.

Have a look World Airline Rating | A-Z Airlines (http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/AirlineA-Z.htm)

Agree however that BHX does have more decent full fare airlines than most other regional airports in the UK.

Nigel

ATNotts

12th Dec 2013, 11:45

Nigel

I would say that the ratings are about as valuable as Tripadvisor rating for hotels i.e. open to manipulation.

That said, the 5* star list does include many of those you would expect it to!

OltonPete

12th Dec 2013, 22:16

Major changes to the FR 2014 schedule but I assume very much WIP taking into account all the gaps. All French and Italian routes not bookable, Dublin just twice daily (I assume working out which base operates certain flights) and RZE also off sale.

Ibiza and Reus for the first time in ages are pushed back to May starts, which is hardly surprising.

Barcelona has a couple of early departures from the BHX base (Wed & Sat) as does LDY on a Monday.

Pete

Centre cities

13th Dec 2013, 00:15

That is a surprise

Centre cities

GayFriendly

13th Dec 2013, 06:44

So what happens to the pax who have already booked TRS, MPL etc? Not exactly a good advert for booking flights in advance with FR. I hope this is a positive work in progress and not a sign that they are falling out with BHX. Then again loads to TRS, MPL etc are highly seasonal perhaps they will just operate Jun-Sep?

ATNotts

13th Dec 2013, 07:48

So what happens to the pax who have already booked TRS, MPL etc? Not exactly a good advert for booking flights in advance with FR.

Absolutely not, but then again, do you imagine that FR cares a tuppenny cuss, as long as FR runs the route, or can shunt the PAX off to another departure point at minimal cost - with enough wriggle room to avoid compensation they'll view it as a result.

It reminds me a lot of what used to go on in the IT industry in the 70s and 80s when holidays were booked on flimsy flight schedules, operated by a plethora of airlines, some that existed, others that did not.

118.70

13th Dec 2013, 07:58

Good day today at BHX.

Fly Dubai arrived, then later a BA 747,767 and PIA LHR fog divsThe grumpy Max Hastings wasn't pleased with the Birminham fog diversions (or anything else) :

A little fog causes misery for millions of travellers | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2522872/A-little-fog-causes-misery-millions-travellers.html)

E75toDUS

13th Dec 2013, 08:56

The grumpy Max Hastings wasn't pleased with the Birminham fog diversions (or anything else) :

A little fog causes misery for millions of travellers | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2522872/A-little-fog-causes-misery-millions-travellers.html)I decided to brave the DM site to have a look at this (arriving back at BHX at 00.30 last night has really reduced my motivation to work today), and I did think this comment by reader "Onmebike" pretty much sums it up:

"This story reads as if it is the lager fuelled ravings of the local pub bore and makes as just sense."

OltonPete

13th Dec 2013, 14:42

B]Diversions[/B]

The fact that the 767 went on the 20's you would hope it was intended as a fuel and go to start with. I would say the length of time of the aircraft was unfortunate but hardly excessive.

The main thing of difficulty(in the past) at BHX I have been told, is the availability of coaches for the onward journey home or getting the fuellers out.

The most amazing aspect is that BHX is on any airline diversion list this winter with closing at 11pm in the week, just one CAT 1 ILS and without the full runway lighting.

Ryanair

Hopefully some of the routes taken off sale orreduced are just waiting to be retimed although MPL, PGF, GRO and at time TRS were pretty light on loads and fares were soft to say the least on some.

Pete

nigel osborne

13th Dec 2013, 15:27

The gent forgets planes divert for safety and it is far better than it used to be, when every 747/DC-10/Tristar had to divert when the RVR dropped to 550m then 300m.

Now its 075m RVR most Boeings and 125m on Airbus..although stand to be corrected on this. Probably 90% drop in planes having to divert.

If you book a flight in the winter from a busy airport like LHR then you have to accept you might get delayed if bad weather closes in.

Nigel

compton3bravo

13th Dec 2013, 16:40

Sorry people, but I entirely agree with Mr Hastings - the country is a disgrace compared to what is was some years ago. I know I am retired old git but having just returned from dear old blighty! (a week was more than enough) in my opinion it is getting progressively worse - the infrastructure is creaking at the seams plus most of the people seem to be walking with their heads down and if you smile at someone you get a look of complete disdain or they look at you thinking you are a bit mad.
Where I live now is not perfect (is anywhere). I used to love my country but not any more - as I said to a friend recently the UK seems to have left me not the other way round. Rant over have a good weekend everybody.

groundhogbhx

13th Dec 2013, 18:57

So what does that have to do with standard restrictions applied to airports operating in LVP's? It's the same anywhere in the world, you get fog and things slow down!

getonittt

13th Dec 2013, 23:01

Some self important people love to moan, especially when it comes to a public service that does , occasionally , not run according to plan. We had the " Horror on the Tarmac " headline in the Birmingham mail and the accompanying picture of a passenger with sub quote " I'll never fly again" regarding last weeks Emirates 777 that executed a go around when the side winds were too great on flare out . We know this happens because the runways is facing the wrong way ( blimey, don't tell the press that or they will have a field day ) and we all know LHR will suffer delays/cancellations when they are in LVP's . Wind/Snow/FOG will always cause problems for aviation even though joe public sarcastically says we are in the 21st century.

cvt person

14th Dec 2013, 09:00

From a Birmingham perspective the most damaging part of this article is the assertion that the passengers were told by the captain that they had to stay on board as Birmingham was overwhelmed by the number of diverted flights and immigration and customs could not cope. With the number of diverted flights totalling three this may or may not be true but for some of us who have suffered with lengthy waits at the hands of immigration at Birmingham it certainly has the ring of authenticity about it.

ssflyer

14th Dec 2013, 09:31

This an extract of my post on the Ryanair forum

I have already booked 4 sectors BHX/GRO for 2014.
They still exist under "Manage my Booking" but are no longer available under the FR booking system.
I assume FR are re-hashing their schedules for 2014 and the next thing I will get is an email announcing the flights have been cancelled/rescheduled ??

dionysius

14th Dec 2013, 09:51

Ssflyer, are FR not operating BHX/BCN rather than BHX/GRO at present ?

OltonPete

14th Dec 2013, 10:51

ssflyer

Don't panic yet but it does appear something will have to give out of GRO, MPL, PGF, RZE, TRS and BGY as the four based aircraft under the new schedule are much busier with what appears FR's first 8 sector day from the BHX base. However gaps are still there for Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday and I would imagine they are working out which ones can operate from the away base.

The problem with GRO was that outside of July and August load factors were average but the same could be said for MPL and PGF. I am not sure why RZE is not bookable unless it is a day change or to be a new base.

I think MPL & GRO are at the greatest risk but the latter even with BCN the new favourite did operate last summer. The problem is if BGY has to be fitted into the BHX based schedule then MPL, PGF and GRO are at risk.

FR are also operating one aircraft BHX-FUE-BHX-DUB-BHX-BCN-BHX which is their first six sector day including a Canaries flight from BHX. Also four Dublin's next summer of which three operate from the BHX base most days no doubt to accommodate Dublin's expanded schedule.

Sweating assets I believe it is called.

Diversions

You would hope that the Captain was just repeating what he was told but I suspect a load of tosh. Only one of the three flights off-loaded although looking at an SBS report PK791 a 77W landed 14.37 and AI113 a B788 landed 17.15 and no doubt some of these passengers kept BHX immigration on their toes for two to three hours.

Nobody seems to know or given an explantion why it was on a splash n dash stand but unloaded - was it crew hours or Heathrow slots which is hardly BHX's fault. I would like to know what time the coaches arrived to take them back to LHR (not at the aircraft) as everything else seems reasonable. If you divert an aircraft to another airport you have expect local flights take precedent and despite the perception of those south of BHX it is a bit of a backwater, it was a Thursday in December with two long-haul, time-consuming flights to deal with. Airports are in a no-win situation a lot of the time - moaned at for refusing (MAN) and moaned at for taking (BHX).

Anybody notice how well Amsterdam coped on windy Thursday the other week. Four hundred different runways (slight exaggeration :E) pointing in every direction possible (almost) and still loads of cancellations. I believe the authorities have take into concerns of the locals and they only use certain runways at certain times. How frustrating is that having assets and not been able to usethem although I don't know if in this instance if there were other factors at play on that Thursday and Friday at AMS.

Not just the UK and FRA was the same times last winter.

Pete

ssflyer

14th Dec 2013, 12:52

"Ssflyer, are FR not operating BHX/BCN rather than BHX/GRO at present"
That is the winter schedule,I have booked to GRO June and September.
also
thanks oltonpete,I suspect it is just wait and see-I might have to go to EMA
Incidentally,I flew 6 sectors BHX/GRO through May June and September last year with loads around the 80%+ mark (FR is never 100% because of the 8 seats left empty in 3&4) but the prices were 30% higher than 2012 which may be the reason for lack of pax. My 4 sectors booked for next year on similar days/timings/extras show a 18% price drop on the 2013 silly prices.
SS

OltonPete

15th Dec 2013, 21:39

Aer Lingus Regional

Since the announcement of Shannon going double daily EI Regional seem to have abandoned the BHX-DUB less than a year after it started. The summer night-stop has gone and they are mainly using a mix of the early Shannon flight and A320 Dublin for long-haul connections. Ryanair of course appear to be maintaining four daily Dublin.

KLM/AF summer 2014

AF - the 319 seems to stay but no real surprise although the 318 was showing originally. KLM change quite a bit during the summer with 737 taking over the first inbound from the 190 but it then reverts back and the 190 takes over the lunchtime F70 flight.

Brussels Airlines

Remains mainly 5 a day but the last flight out of BHX is 17.45 rather than 20.40. The RJ100 moves to the first inbound and flybe operate three rather than two flights (at present).

Monarch

What a day they have had - 10 flights from BHX the most for a winter I believe but it didn't go well. The Kittila diverted to RVM and pax were bussed but by the time they got airborne it must have been tight on crew hours and the aircraft landed in Aberdeen. Per the ABZ thread pax are going to a hotel but the aircraft was due to operate BHX - Rome and they had to position an A300 in from Gatwick. It is currently running about 2-3 hours late but at least BHX is open on a Sunday evening.

Biman

I believe this coming week was rumoured for the BHX-DAC to go on sale and there are murmurs that something has been worked out for the other bit of the flight as well.

Pete

Hangar6

15th Dec 2013, 21:52

S14 will see increase in capacity , it's BHX main route after all and growing
EIR three new hulls in next 3 months and schedule will be loaded soon, promise

OltonPete

15th Dec 2013, 22:46

Cheers for the info Hangar6.

I will keep an eye out as I have a personal interest as I want to go to NYC next year and via DUB or SNN will be fine by me.

Pete

111KAB

16th Dec 2013, 10:06

Birmingham Airport could expand to serve 70m a year | Central - ITV News (http://www.itv.com/news/central/update/2013-12-14/birmingham-airport-could-expand-to-serve-70m-a-year/)

Alycidon

16th Dec 2013, 10:19

Incidentally,I flew 6 sectors BHX/GRO through May June and September last year with loads around the 80%+ mark (FR is never 100% because of the 8 seats left empty in 3&4).

Not true, due:

a. rows 3 and 4 = 12 seats

b. when 189 pax are boarded, rows 3 and 4 are open.

therefore load factor is 100% when aircraft is full.

Mr Angry from Purley

16th Dec 2013, 11:24

Never understand why all Airlines divert to BHX when the centre of the universe (EMA) is just down the road. Plenty of road / rail links, coaches normally aplenty.

Mr Hastings should know there is only one good thing that comes out of BHX - The road out of it! No offence Alton Pete;)

ATNotts

16th Dec 2013, 11:56

Mr Angry

Never understand why all Airlines divert to BHX when the centre of the universe (EMA) is just down the road. Plenty of road / rail links, coaches normally aplenty.

Mr Hastings should know there is only one good thing that comes out of BHX - The road out of it! No offence Alton Pete

I can see that getting some interesting responses from anyone with a sense of humour deficiency!

ATNotts

16th Dec 2013, 11:59

111KAB

I do really wish that Mr. Kehoe would get a reality check!

You average southerner suffer from Oxygen starvation if he / she goes north of the M25, and your average American thinks there isn't anything in the UK outside of London!!

nigel osborne

16th Dec 2013, 16:07

Mr Angry,

Yes your EMA comments re diversions made me laugh, a brave man to put them on the BHX thread good luck to you.

ATNOTTS.

Yes have to agree,he should be concentrating on Midlanders flying from BHX, not this BHX can be LHR 3rd runway..and why do it a day before the Commission report..its already been typed up,will make him look silly..

Nigel

ATNotts

16th Dec 2013, 17:12

Nigel,

As you know, I'm not one of those "glass half empty" types, but I do feel that Kehoe is coming up with (totally unrealistic) grandiose ideas like this to detract from the fact that he (and his company) hasn't really got any positive news businesswise to put out instead.

A fig-leaf, which I fear, when the much vaunted (London) airports report is published may well be blown away in metaphorical jetwash.

OltonPete

16th Dec 2013, 19:30

I thought 565000-570000 would be good based on seats available but the CAA have released the following: -

November pax 587190 up 3.3%, rolling year 9078127 +2%

ATM's 6138 +1.7% rolling year 84652 +0.6%

The stars - Air India 7108 - average 209 or 82% load factor (Turkmen fought back a bit, still down but averaged 137 pax about 72%)

Emirates 42710 - average 356 pax 83% (just one 3-class)

CDG, DUS, FRA, MXP, DUB, STR, BCN, ISB, EWR, IST, BFS & WAT were up with BRU, CPH, MUC, AMS showing small decreases.

Berlin & Stockholm the most disappointing averaging in the 60's for pax :{

Pete

GayFriendly

16th Dec 2013, 19:56

Best plan a few more family visits to Berlin before this route is canned - I can't see Germanwings putting up with that sort of load factor for much longer, unless they either dramatically cut capacity or make the route summer only? It seems that city breaks are not so popular with Midlands folk? ARN also bad loads and still no sign of PRG, MAD, WAW, BUD, LIS back on the BHX screens, although ATH does make a welcome return in 2014

As for PK and his ridiculous ideas about BHX growing to 70 million pax per year on LHR overspill, does he really want BHX to be viewed as a tribute airport which, just like a tribute band, is good but is only ever thought of as second best to the real thing. Smoke and bluster to cover up the fact that there is in fact nothing really to say, particularly to justify the runway extension, apart from clinging on to the hope that Biman launch BHX flights in 2014.

insuindi

16th Dec 2013, 22:02

RE TXL: Germanwings is enduring 60% loads on some routes, which they consider strategic or to fill up the schedule. I am afraid BHX-TXL wouldn't be one of those, and TLX slots reasonably valuable at the moment. The "New" Germanwings can now of course switch more to Canadair-Jets on that route (requiring higher fare level though), and reduce frequency, as already planned for most of winter.

crewmeal

17th Dec 2013, 07:20

So the government report is out and recommends an extra runway at LHR and LGW. They don't recommend expansion at BHX or STN. So where does BHX go from here? personally I don't see much future expansion from scheduled carriers who would obviously prefer to operate out of London airports.

Come on MR K what are your plans now?

chinapattern

17th Dec 2013, 07:42

Come on MR K what are your plans now?

All hopes now lie with Biman Bangladesh! God help us :-)

ATNotts

17th Dec 2013, 07:42

A fig-leaf, which I fear, when the much vaunted (London) airports report is published may well be blown away in metaphorical jetwash.

Well that's the fig-leaf gone - he's looking a little embarrassed now. I'm sure however that the PR (spin) department will find some more "news" to deflect the lack of growth in the area an airport is there for - handling flights.

A new branch of Dillons the Newsagents in the shopping centre might be a good suggestion!!

Heck I'm sounding negative - mind you it's that depressing time of year - dark night, short days - and Christmas!!!

getonittt

17th Dec 2013, 09:08

Centre cities

17th Dec 2013, 09:20

Did anyone really expect anything different? I am pretty sure PK didn't but if you do not make a case you get blasted afterwards for not doing so.

However this government may not be in power in 2 years time.

Centre cities

ATNotts

17th Dec 2013, 09:26

However this government may not be in power in 2 years time

Probably won't be once it's lost all it's marginals around LHR and it's "safe" seats in the Chilterns and Oxfordshire to the third runways and HS2 NIMBYs.

nigel osborne

17th Dec 2013, 17:07

Getonnitt

Good point re HS2, doubt if the current Govt will drop it though.

Nigel

johnnychips

17th Dec 2013, 18:00

No, HST will provide quicker journeys from LHR to Brum from flights, that even with expansion, they wouldn't have got anyway.

justplanecrazy84

17th Dec 2013, 18:11

Times released. http://fb.me/2P9WLdN5Y

ATNotts

17th Dec 2013, 18:38

He was back on the box again this evening getting a grilling from the venerable Nick Owen!

I'm sorry to say this, but rightly or wrongly he comes across about as convincingly as a political spin doctor. I appreciate that, as the CEO, he is the figurehead for the organisation, and I'm sure that he has a lot of good dedicated people under him working their butts off to make a success of the airport, but all I heard from him was hot air, with little substance. He didn't even trot out the Biman story again.

Sad to say the guy from the Greater Birmingham Chamber of Commerce wasn't a great deal better!

As Nick Owen pointed out himself, the Midlands (and the rest of the country) has been overlooked yet again for infrastructure investment, in favour of the already over favoured, Southeast.

LGS6753

17th Dec 2013, 18:42

Those don't look like local times to me:
Westbound BHX-NYC 10:15-18:45 (too long)
Eastbound NYC-BHX 21:45-05:45 (too short).

Back to the drawing board!

Skipness One Echo

17th Dec 2013, 18:46

has been overlooked yet again for infrastructure investment, in favour of the already over favoured, Southeast.
You get the new airport infrastructure when the current infrastructure is fully utilised or needs replacing. Does BHX meet either criteria? No.
We live in a free market economy so not sure what you were expeciting given the vast bulk of the population is in the South East(!)

justplanecrazy84

17th Dec 2013, 19:45

LGS6753
Those don't look like local times to me:
Westbound BHX-NYC 10:15-18:45 (too long)
Eastbound NYC-BHX 21:45-05:45 (too short).

Back to the drawing board!

They look like all uk times to me.

Centre cities

17th Dec 2013, 19:51

I do not really think that the Biman link is suitable for cross posting.

Centre cities

crewmeal

17th Dec 2013, 22:21

Watching the local Brum news on both ITV and BBC I think some of those interviewed were missing the point. Why does BHX need a second runway when they can't even fill the first one? Just because you stick a few meters on an existing runway doesn't mean the world will flock into BHX. If the infrastructure is there in the first place and the airlines won't operate then it's dead in its tracks.

I'm sure the world would love to invest into the Midlands but it doesn't have to land at BHX if its not viable. Look at JFK how many times that started and finished since BOAC began the VC-10 service. BHX can just about sustain an EWR serice on a 757 five times a week during the winter. Is there really potential for another Trans-Atlantic flight? No way. YYZ has been discussed to death and all that can do is raise an A310 once a week summer service.

The growth market at BHX is for low cost and the charter market oh and Bangladesh Binman. New scheduled carriers are not interested in poor old BHX because there is no market. If there was a market then they would fly.

Pipe dreamers and spotters please keep speculating.

Fairdealfrank

18th Dec 2013, 00:17

BHX isn't in the running for consideration by the Airports Commission because there are no capacity problems there. it's not a criticism of the airport.

The problem is LHR operating at 99% capacity on a good day and no slack in the system; the long delays while queueing to take off and land; the ludicrous slot market caused by lack of supply keeping new carriers and new routes out of LHR.

Resolving this is "too difficult", so it's the "long grass" all over again. That's what the Commission is all about, allowing the governemnt to do nothing.

ATNotts

18th Dec 2013, 07:33

given the vast bulk of the population is in the South East(!)

I guess it rather depends on where you draw the "border" for the Southeast, but I would venture to suggest that somewhat less than 30 million people are squeezed into London and the "home counties".

More importantly, the concentration of infrastructure and other "national" development in London in particular, and the southeast in general has acted as a magnet drawing people south and east.

It's all water under the bridge, and I fear cannot be undone now, but had the UK had a broader plan to spread the wealth around the country as a whole, not one bit of it, the economic map might look a whole lot different.

As regards the 2nd runway, I entirely agree, what BHX needs a second runway for heaven only knows. The press latched on to that, and the depth of their lack of understanding was only emphasized yesterday when the BBC transport correspondent explained that with the extended 6000m runway at LHR, aircraft would simulataneously use one end for landing and the other for take offs, which sounds a tad dangerous to me!!

GayFriendly

18th Dec 2013, 10:08

"The growth market at BHX is for low cost"

Really? FR looking more and more likely to drop a number of routes for S14, Flybe going through restructuring (although have added NQY) and ZB just one new route BHX-HRG next year. I wouldn't call that major growth!

Not sure where BHX goes from here - LHR favoured for expansion, no new routes or carriers on the back of the runway extension and just Aegean to add to the roster of airlines in S14. BHX does well at what it does and is a great airport to fly from but never seems to make any significant major moves forward in airline or route development or be of any more than passing interest to new carriers. Looking at airlines and routes offered now, there is not that much change from 10 years ago, more routes appear to have gone than stayed. I guess we have to be thankful for what we do have!

crewmeal

18th Dec 2013, 10:38

I wouldn't call that major growth!

I never used the word major. I suggested that low cost and charter will be the only growth at BHX. There are no new main line schedule carriers on the horizon that will offer a daily service for the foreseeable future. My guess the low cost market will fill any gaps that are worth going for in Europe.

getonittt

18th Dec 2013, 10:59

To have any growth you need a based airline to creat a hub (or alliance hub). That is the main reason LHR has all those flights with major feeds from Scandinavia/Ireland/North U.K etc to their long haul flights. BHX pax figures are laid bare but i would like to see LHR's , i bet some are laughable but those flights have to run because of the hub system . Despite what Crewmeal says BHX's long/medium haul figures are excellent , and you have to remember that those flights are all BHX as an Origin/destination so nearly 10 million Pax a year is SOME market! .

Pipe dreamers and spotters please keep speculating

But they have perspective, whereas the majority of the general public have no idea of aviation . They wouldnt know who flies to and where and how many planes use each airport , they think increased flights means earthquake creating noise as if fleets of tridents and VC10's are going over their houses every 2 minutes , of course they are not going to know if BHX needs another runway or not , thats why every time there is a news item on TV we are left rolling our eyes!

Ringwayman

18th Dec 2013, 20:07

Blurb on the Biman (http://www.airportsinternational.com/2013/12/two-new-longhaul-routes-from-birmingham-uk/15078)

"Birmingham Airport says the New York JFK sector is expected to be particularly popular with Midlanders wanting to reach the city for business and leisure purposes and will complement Birmingham’s current daily scheduled flight to New York Newark Airport. "

Laughable.

"With a growing number of long-haul flights launching from Birmingham, we’re clearly demonstrating the desire by airlines to operate to and from the Midlands"

And where exactly are these flights going to? Tokyo, Los Angeles, Beijing Rio de Janeiro, the places that local businesses may want to export to ...errr no. Destinations that are primarily destined for VFR purposes only (visiting friends & relatives).

crewmeal

18th Dec 2013, 20:32

"With a growing number of long-haul flights launching from Birmingham, we’re clearly demonstrating the desire by airlines to operate to and from the Midlands"

PK is putting so much spin on Binman that it's making the world believe that long haul expansion is imminent. However the one good thing that it has going for it is the B777 is a fairly new aircraft for them and if they plan it right could offer superior levels of service compared with United's 757. I have yet to find any comments on BI on flyertalk.

Skipness One Echo

18th Dec 2013, 20:39

PK is putting so much spin on Binman that it's making the world believe that long haul expansion is imminent.
Was the typo intentional?
Q : Who shall we fly to America with?
A : Not Bangladesh Airlines where US Customs and Immigration are all hyped up and ready to say no.

They lasted less than a season at MAN if I recall, non Baglasdeshi UK-US traffic will be near zero on this.

Fairdealfrank

18th Dec 2013, 21:09

O.K. now that what we all knew WHAT would happen HAS happened i hope BHX and also the west midlands region as whole will withdraw any support for HS2. I mean , all along BHX has said they want HS2 as a means of getting people from the south to use an expanded airport in the midlands so now that business case is no longer relevant hopefully HS2 will be kicked into touch.

HST is not about bringing air pax from London to BHX, according to the government spinners it’s not about high speed either: it’s apparently about “capacity”.

　
However this government may not be in power in 2 years time.

Probably won't be once it's lost all it's marginals around LHR and it's "safe" seats in the Chilterns and Oxfordshire to the third runways and HS2 NIMBYs.

At the next election, marginal seats will change hands on issues such as the cost of living and the economy, and whether UKIP can take enough votes away from the incumbents to let in challengers, it’s as simple as that.

So let’s nail, once and for all, this fantasy that marginal seats will change hands because of airport policy.

Of the seats around LHR, 1 is safe Libdem (Twickenham), 3 are safe Con (Maidenhead, Spelthorne and Windsor), 4 are safe Labour (Feltham and Heston, Hayes and Harlington, Slough and Southall)

Just 2 are marginal Con: Brentford and Isleworth (Con-Lab marginal), with many airport workers; and Richmomnd Park (Con-Libdem marginal), where LHR expansion is a non-issue because both Zac Goldsmith the sitting MP and his Libdem challenger will be anti-LHR expansion.

crewmeal

19th Dec 2013, 06:56

"Birmingham Airport says the New York JFK sector is expected to be particularly popular with Midlanders wanting to reach the city for business and leisure purposes and will complement Birmingham’s current daily scheduled flight to New York Newark Airport. "

For those planning a trip to the States on BI don't hold your breath about service levels even with a relatively new B777. A very mixed bag by those who have used it.

Biman Bangladesh Airlines Customer Reviews | SKYTRAX (http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/biman.htm)

nigel osborne

19th Dec 2013, 15:40

Crewmeal,

A 2 star airline..

Nigel

CabinCrewe

19th Dec 2013, 16:52

You get what you pay for is £100 single is the advertised fares. Those using it should be under no illusions, although as far as Skytrax is concerned, id take that with a pinch of manipulated salt. Not convinced by the longevity of this particular venture though...

ATNotts

19th Dec 2013, 17:53

Fairdealfrank

At the next election, marginal seats will change hands on issues such as the cost of living and the economy, and whether UKIP can take enough votes away from the incumbents to let in challengers, it’s as simple as that.

Glad you think so. Ever heard of the "Save Kidderminster Hospital" candidate that won an election on a single issue; Martin Bell in Tatton, many years ago a guy called Dick Taverne - a disaffected something or other. There are plenty of other examples - and that, as you say, if before we even start on Farage's mob.

A few single-issue candidates, and things can happen - with your views on HS2 which seem to be pretty anti - I'm surprised you haven't found a leafy constituency somewhere in the Chilterns to cause mischief in!!

It's democracy - and even in our rather undemocratic version, unexpected things happen!

Grave danger that this thread will slide towards a more "Jet Blast-esque" flavour, so I'll leave it there.

Fairdealfrank

19th Dec 2013, 18:45

Glad you think so. Ever heard of the "Save Kidderminster Hospital" candidate that won an election on a single issue; Martin Bell in Tatton, many years ago a guy called Dick Taverne - a disaffected something or other. There are plenty of other examples - and that, as you say, if before we even start on Farage's mob.

Indeed, know about all these well, but even you have to admit these are magnificent and rare, so rare in fact that you've managed to quote every case going back to 1974, Dick Taverne the original "social democrat".

With all the hospital closures up and down the country, there was only ever one anti-hospital closure MP. There was only ever one anti-sleaze MP, and NONE after the expenses scandal.

Why do you think that HACAN or others have never fielded anti-Heathrow expansion candidates?

The only anti-Heathrow expansion candidate that ever stood for Parliament had to run as a Conservative (Zac Goldsmith, Richmond). Why do you think this is the case?

A few single-issue candidates, and things can happen - with your views on HS2 which seem to be pretty anti - I'm surprised you haven't found a leafy constituency somewhere in the Chilterns to cause mischief in!!

We'll see if any anti HS2 candidates stand and get elected in the Chilterns.

Am not anti-HS2 in principle, just against the daft and unnecessarily expensive and disruptive route they've used, would be better to follow a combination of existing railways and motorways for the most part, with the "Y" near Rugby. Also, the intention to use out of town "parkway" stations" is crazy. Time wasted accessing these stations cancels the advantage of being on a high speed train!

Fairdealfrank

19th Dec 2013, 18:47

Glad you think so. Ever heard of the "Save Kidderminster Hospital" candidate that won an election on a single issue; Martin Bell in Tatton, many years ago a guy called Dick Taverne - a disaffected something or other. There are plenty of other examples - and that, as you say, if before we even start on Farage's mob.

Indeed, know about all these well, but even you have to admit these are magnificent and rare, so rare in fact that you've managed to quote every case going back to 1974, Dick Taverne the original "social democrat".

With all the hospital closures up and down the country, there was only ever one anti-hospital closure MP. There was only ever one anti-sleaze MP, and NONE after the expenses scandal.

Why do you think that HACAN or others have never fielded anti-Heathrow expansion candidates?

The only anti-Heathrow expansion candidate that ever stood for Parliament had to run as a Conservative (Zac Goldsmith, Richmond). Why do you think this is the case?

A few single-issue candidates, and things can happen - with your views on HS2 which seem to be pretty anti - I'm surprised you haven't found a leafy constituency somewhere in the Chilterns to cause mischief in!!

We'll see if any anti HS2 candidates stand and get elected in the Chilterns.

Am pro-HS2 in principle, just against the daft and unnecessarily expensive and disruptive route they've used, just think it be better to follow a combination of existing railways and motorways for the most part, with the "Y" near Rugby. Also, the intention to use out of town "parkway" stations" is crazy. Time wasted accessing these stations cancels the advantage of being on a high speed train!

StoneyBridge Radar

19th Dec 2013, 19:48

Regarding Biman, I simply can not see the JFK leg paying, no matter what rates they have managed to get out of BHX. If there was more demand for NYC, United would be back to double daily or up gauged to something matching the heady days when the venerable DC10s plied the route.

I'd wager, along with their intention of also recommencing MAN upon the arrival of the next 2 B777-300ERs, the JFK tag will be moved up the M6 in a matter of months, where I feel it will also struggle.

johnnychips

19th Dec 2013, 20:27

Will passengers from Bangladesh to JFK be subject to another security check at Brum like PIA passengers are at Manchester on their way to New York?

getonittt

19th Dec 2013, 20:49

This month has seen many upgrades on some routes particularly star alliance spoke routes. I know it is the run up to Christmas but I don't recall this many in the past. There have been umpteen DLH A321's on the FRA , SWR airbus on the ZRH , double daily A321 on THY , A321 on the AF paris and tonight a 737-800 on the SAS Copenhagen (which I believe is a much more suitable aircraft for the route and the Stockholm would suit the CRJ900 ) In summer when the Stockholm was timed similar to the CPH there was often overspill from the CPH CRJ to the 737 going to Arlanda.

nigel osborne

19th Dec 2013, 21:14

Getonitt.

Yes certainly our CDG,and FRA have come on really well. When you think we had a piddly City Jet RJ for years until 18 months ago.Now grown from a 318 to 319,and increasingly an A320 and some A321s.

FRA likewise up to a 319-321.

Swiss is different, Zurich its seen massive cuts in capacity at BHX and should be said Manchester. LH who own them seem happy to put more on their LH flights at the expense of Zurich.

Stockholm..well SAS keep messing about with change of times planes and then months off..surely not what a businessmen wants.

TK has also seen numerous A321s in recent weeks, I think 3 alone this week.

Nigel

All names taken

20th Dec 2013, 06:16

BIMAN

Let me explain a little more about Biman - I know a little bit about this.

This is basically a DAC-JFK route which has stuttered from farce to failure and back again for years.
The US authorities will not allow passengers to embark at DAC and de-plane at any US airport due to (well founded IMO) security concerns.
Therefore a stop en-route is required at an approved security screening facility. Used to be MAN, now apparently to be BHX.

There will be some DAC-BHX traffic and negligible BHX-US, but it matters not. BHX and MAN before it. is principally a pax screening facility and a chance to top the tanks up.
Suggestions that BG 'will complement' the UA service to Newark smack of desperation and are a bit of an insult to UA frankly.

The best ways to DAC are via the excellent connections offered by Emirates and now Turkish. That would also be the opinion of most Bangladeshis that I know. Reasons:
a) vastly superior service
b) a much better chance of arriving there when you should do.
c) no real price advantage by using Biman therefore less for your money.

All I can say is the English guy now running BG must have been desperate for the job; his CV is hardly airline top-drawer.

ATNotts

20th Dec 2013, 07:38

There will be some DAC-BHX traffic and negligible BHX-US,

Think you're right about BHX-JFK traffic, but where I do believe that Biman might have some success is in cargo. Since virtually everything you wear these days comes from a sweat shop in Dacca, then there is undoubtedly going to be some demand for cargo from the region. Whether that is already covered by the likes of Emirates I don't know - I've been away from air cargo for too long.

There surely be a demand for DAC-BHX passenger business given the numbers of Bangladeshis in central England. If the price is right they'll use the service for sure.

All names taken

20th Dec 2013, 11:38

<<Biman might have some success is in cargo. Since virtually everything you wear these days comes from a sweat shop in Dacca, then there is undoubtedly going to be some demand for cargo from the region.>>

No-one is going to be air freighting t-shirts and jeans. Practically everything goes by sea for obvious reasons.

TSR2

20th Dec 2013, 18:25

No-one is going to be air freighting t-shirts and jeans. Practically everything goes by sea for obvious reasons.

Unless its to re-stock Primark after a store fire, then its an AN225.

ATNotts

21st Dec 2013, 09:54

No-one is going to be air freighting t-shirts and jeans. Practically everything goes by sea for obvious reasons.

You say that, but I believe that even some of the high end fashion retailers buy their designer nonsense from Bangladeshi sweat shops, put obscene mark ups on them, and flog then to a label obsessed public!

If they need to restock urgently, then the value of the product will justify air freight. And of course aside of fashion Bangaldesh will be making other "stuff" that will be sent by air, if they aren't already.

nigel osborne

21st Dec 2013, 12:18

Arriving at BHX this morning on a delivery flight, Fly Dubai 737-800 A6-FEK,

This has gone into the Monarch Hangar and joins A6-FEJ which arrived over a week ago.

Nigel

111KAB

22nd Dec 2013, 18:07

New picture reveals Birmingham Airport's £40m runway extension « Express & Star (http://www.expressandstar.com/news/transport-news/2013/12/21/new-picture-reveals-birmingham-airports-40m-runway-extension/)

All names taken

23rd Dec 2013, 06:57

Aaaah, after all the speculation, finally we've got to the bottom of it. The whole purpose of the extension was for a 2 weekly Biman flight, 'opening up new business opportunities' :ooh:

The financial and economic return on this project must be......I'll get me calculator.

Excusing the woeful journalism, this really does smack of desperation.
No mention of BHX's real coup this year, AI.
Mind you that didn't need the runway extension.

ATNotts

23rd Dec 2013, 07:55

All names taken

Aaaah, after all the speculation, finally we've got to the bottom of it. The whole purpose of the extension was for a 2 weekly Biman flight, 'opening up new business opportunities'

Good heavens, I thought I was a cynic!

Actually it's 4 x weekly, 2 in each direction - and you never know, it might last as much as 4 weeks!

EGCA

23rd Dec 2013, 08:11

Having seen that image on another forum prompted me to do a little easy research. Apparently it was less expensive to divert the road around the runway extension rather than build a tunnel, but the result is that the runway will have a length of arond 10,000 ft when competed, rather than the previous length mentioned of circa 9400 ft.

Presumably that makes all the difference with the ultra long haul flights.

Takes some strain of the "South-east"....?

EGCA

3315

23rd Dec 2013, 09:22

These comments towards the extension do make me chuckle
I really don't think the airport directors sat down and said lets spends millions
On an extra bit of runway and we will have airlines running to our door launching
All these glamorous destinations, we all love an airport as we our interested
In aviation but at the end of the day it's a business which wants to make money and will continually look to the future to remain competive in the short term
As well as the long term and with growth predictions showing a future boom in air travel it's fully justified I think. it's was a fact that large planes couldn't reach certain points on the current runway so this now enables it to, so if an airline tomorrow wants to fly JFK it can and in 5 years for example when someone wants to fly to china it can.
I think you would be a fool to expect a list of 10 airlines to announce
A handful of routes by April but as the saying goes "time will tell"

nigel osborne

23rd Dec 2013, 10:49

EGCA.

They had to leave out the 150m starter strip to squeeze it in.However the new A45 was dropped on purpose ,so a bridge can be added over the new road at a later date, to add this and to make it possible for any over run to go into the fields behind.

Have seen 2020/22 mentioned for this.

By that time we will be knee deep in long haul routes needing the extension :}

Crikey you have me at in now Andrew :)

Nigel

EGCA

23rd Dec 2013, 12:44

Nigel: Point taken. Assumes you over-run on the runway heading, rather than elsewhere!

Anyway if Vince Cable gets his way ( and I credit him with talking common sense most of the time...) he feels we should develop regional airports, ie " those not in the South-East" rather than build a third runway at heathrow, or second at Gatwick etc.

Might just be money well spent at Brum....

EGCA

nigel osborne

24th Dec 2013, 09:44

Well done to BHX and its staff last night. BHX took over 20 airliner diversions from LHR/LGW/BRS,LTN.

These included a BA 767 and 320, EK 77W, Cyprus A320 and heaps of Easy Jets including at least one new wingleted 320.

They parked them on the remotes and even on the taxiway.

Nigel

GayFriendly

24th Dec 2013, 10:04

Crikey, that's a huge number of diverts! Airport must have been rammed full of aircraft.

Hear hear Nigel, BHX's biggest asset is the staff who work there and I'm sure all involved did an excellent job on what would have been one hell of a busy evening/night! I hope all pax eventually managed to make it to where they wanted to be.

Another storm of the same intensity is now due this Friday.....

nigel osborne

24th Dec 2013, 14:13

Gayfriendly,

Think the issue with yesterdays storms was that wind direction was slightly unusual being croswinds across LHR/LGW.Fri storm might be more W/SW so might not be as much of an issue ?

Bit bemused about STN as they had worse winds yet nearly all got in and they took a lot of divs. Runway allignment different to LHR/LGW ?

Nigel

splash&dash

24th Dec 2013, 15:48

Thanks for the praise Nigel and gayfriendly:ok:
It certainly was a busy night to say the least!

As the strong winds were southerly it put most flights out of limits to land at south UK airports with their east west runways. Pilots were extremely relieved last night that our runway is north south as they had very little choices where to divert to. Like I've said before, someone needs to have a cross runway as the wind isn't always blowing in the same direction. Last night proved that big time! No flights diverted away from BHX and we only had 1 go around if I recall which landed on the 2nd attempt. Also runway 15 has no ILS due to runway works so all flights were RNAV approaches.
It was one of those very rare shifts where we had exceptional circumstances in challenging weather conditions. Priority was to take as many flights as we could and utilise as much concrete as possible to park them up safely including on the taxiways.
I'd like to say a huge 'well done' to all who worked last night in all parts of the airport! Bear in mind virtually all companies had only skeleton staff on duty due to minimal planned flights. The handling agents had less than 5 ramp staff on duty I believe and some of them volunteered to work over until the morning to help out unloading around 20 aircraft :D
I hope all the many disrupted passengers and crew got to their destinations eventually and safely in the end. They were very patient surprisingly especially as it was Christmas Eve eve.
There's another storm forecasted for Friday so fingers crossed.
Merry Christmas and a happy new year to fellow Ppruners.

GayFriendly

24th Dec 2013, 16:04

Nigel

As far as I know, runways at LHR and LGW lie in an east/west direction, with the winds yesterday coming in a mainly southerly direction, that would have accounted for the cross winds yesterday at both. STN the runway I think lies in a slightly more SW/NE direction which helped landing conditions?

The exact path and location of Fridays storm is not 100% - at present the low is centred further south than yesterdays over Northern Ireland so although predicted severe gales in the SE it looks like winds will be from a much more W/SW direction. Watch this space!

GayFriendly

24th Dec 2013, 16:16

Sorry splash&dash, you posted before I had chance to reply to Nigel, apologies for the repeating what you said about the runways

You're very welcome, staff at BHX especially those in ops across the board do not get enough credit for their hard work! Really glad too to see that BHX is playing a more active role than perhaps it can be argued it has done in previous years with diverts, although with yesterdays extraordinary conditions down south they were most certainly not in a position to say no to anyone I would have thought.

Merry Christmas one and all and here's to another eventful year at BHX - it sure will be eventful if Biman do turn up!

nigel osborne

24th Dec 2013, 16:41

Gayfriendly,

Thanks for the info,

Yes agree, take a pat on the back Splash n dash and all those hard working staff at BHX a great credit.As GF says you don't get enough credit.

Will see what Fri brings although weather circs like yesterday with southerly strong winds are not that common.

Although a similar scenerio in the late 70s produced an even larger number mostly from LHR, think it was over 40..gulp I was a mere lad then :)

Nigel

FlyboyUK

27th Dec 2013, 09:29

Just as a matter of interest, not all airlines can do the RNAV approach onto 15 yet, so they have to fly the NDB approach in heading & vertical speed instead. Hard work in those sort of winds.

OltonPete

27th Dec 2013, 14:30

Sources

Passengers figures: CAA
Average per flight: Local SBS Log
Load Factor: Estimates based on seat maps

The overall figure for the month was excellent but not always showing on certain routes.

It is the winter schedules and that has to be remembered but some are disappointing such as Berlin, Hamburg, Gibraltar and Stockholm. Some routes which operated for a few days of the month have been omitted.

Air India continues to show promise with Turkmen recovering as well and Newark operated more this November and with a good load factor. Emirates also had a good month with few three-class aircraft.

airport................ 2013....... pax....%............2012
BRUSSELS............8965........ 44.....56%......... 9175
LARNACA..............3297....... 174... 82%.......... 2959
BILLUND................633.........15.... 31%...............0
COPENHAGEN.........6808........76....79%..........7180
SHARM EL.............4732....... 182... 84%.......... 3515
LYON...................2603....... 52.....59%...............0
PARIS (CDG).........29817.......96.... 78%..........29550
BERLIN (TXL)..........3035.......69....48%...........5084
DUSSELDORF........17665........55....61%......... 15967
FRANKFURT..........23393........97... 63%......... 21494
HAMBURG..............1881........38....42%...........2896
HANOVER..............3589........62....75%............3582
MUNICH...............13866...... .88....72%..........14681
STUTTGART...........3648...... .44....57%...........2511
GIBRALTAR............2304....... 96.....55%................0
AMRITSAR.............7108...... 209... 83%................0
CORK...................5942....... 48.... 67%............6404
DUBLIN...............52346...... 120.. 72%.......... 46236
KNOCK............... 1356 .........40... 51%............2166
SHANNON........... 2164 .........36....75%............3005
WATERFORD........1725 .........51....65%............1260
BERGAMO........... 3555 .......137.... 72%.............2002
MILAN (MXP).......3244 .........54....57%............2581
ROME (FCO)........2644......... 132... 71%............4180
MALTA...............2927 .......163.... 86%............3096
AMSTERDAM....... 37124.........88... 78%.......... 37963
ISLAMABAD .........7835........ 206....57%...........6879
BYDGOSZCZ....... 4432 ........170... 90%............4017
KATOWICE .........2837........ 158... 83%............2527
KRAKOW .........2475 ........155... 82%............2272
RZESZOW.......... 2532......... 158... 84%............3169
FARO................ 6900 ........164... 83%............7171
FUNCHAL............2361 ........131... 64%............2018
BRATISLAVA....... 2957 ........164... 87%............2964
ALICANTE .......11362.........162... 84%.......... 12619
BARCELONA ........4584 ........153... 81%............4088
MALAGA...........11329.......... 154... 80%.......... 11653
PALMA............... 1150 .........96....49%............3098
ARRECIFE... ........7834 ........154... 80%............7203
FUERTEVENTURA 3520 ........160... 80%............3837
LAS PALMAS....... 2854 ........143... 71%............3182
TENERIFE .......12141 ........169... 83%.......... 13463
GOTEBORG..........1256...........25... 51%.................0
STOCKHOLM........1592 .........66... 53%............3896
ZURICH...............7248..........71... 71%............8309
ISTANBUL...........7708 .........92... 60%............6268
ASHKHABAD ........4663......... 137... 72%............5251
DUBAI................42710........356... 83%...........38568
NEW YORK (EWR) .7491 ........149... 88%............6841

Pete

whateverg

28th Dec 2013, 00:15

Just noticed that Air India flights are not bookable beyond early July 2014 on their own website. Anyone know any particular reason for this?

getonittt

28th Dec 2013, 12:06

I wouldn't think it's anything too sinister as heathrow flights are the same too .

CabinCrewe

28th Dec 2013, 20:10

Surprised at PMI load factor. Must be a fair few in there for the chop, Billund, Milan., Gibraltar and Knock must all be for the chop at some point as those loads are not unique to recent months

Centre cities

28th Dec 2013, 20:33

Has not the Billund termination already been announced, this week or next.

Centre cities

GayFriendly

28th Dec 2013, 20:51

CabinCrewe - Billund terminates this week or next. However, Knock up to daily from end of March, Milan, have you seen how much BE charge low-ish pax numbers but I think yield must be good.

Gibraltar perhaps best as a summer only? Palma, Alicante, Malaga etc all seem to do far better load wise from EMA in recent months!

OltonPete

29th Dec 2013, 00:28

CabinCrewe

As with a lot of the routes there are explanations, such as with Billund - it was announced ages ago (as previously stated) it is to end and quite rightly so, Milan would have been a higher load factor as it was scheduled with the 175 at 88 seats but one was in maintenance for a good part of the month and the 118 seat 195 operated the route distorting the figures.

Knock - are you serious, I know flybe are having their woes but chop a route after one month!!!!

Palma shouldn't have been included as it only operated for a few days and several flights would have gone out from BHX light-loaded as the last flight was something like the 6th.

I agree GIB is disappointing with the exception of one or two summer months. I would say Berlin and Stockholm, two high profile routes are at greater risk. Arlanda is a bit like some European football leagues, has a winter and summer break - currently suspended and is back late February then disappears again in July.

Pete

BHX5DME

1st Jan 2014, 15:05

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UjgxLkOkjM

MKY661

1st Jan 2014, 15:35

Gibraltar perhaps best as a summer only?

I agree GIB is disappointing with the exception of one or two summer months.

I know someone who works at Gibraltar Airport and he said that BHX would do well in the summer but probably not in the winter. I think that for Winter 2014-15 Monarch will drop this route and bring it back for Summer 2015. :)

Invicta DC4

1st Jan 2014, 17:26

MKY661

1st Jan 2014, 20:20

I had a weekend break in Gibraltar mid November from BHX. I realise this is only a snapshot, but load figures outbound from BHX on a Thursday was 100 (asked at check in), return on a Sunday from what I could see was 100% full. It would be interesting to see the breakdown of loads over the 3 days of operation per week and other UK airports.

Well I think Monarch started the route because what happened to Bmibaby when they did EMA-GIB. This route only operated during Summer 2012 and because the route was very popular the Gibraltar Government immediately acted to search for a new airline to serve the Midlands:

This was taken from the Gibraltar Chronicle on 17th May 2012:
The Government also noted that regrettably services from East Midlands Airport in the UK operated by bmibaby will discontinue as from September 2012 due to the closure of the airline. However Government did confirm that it has acted immediately to ensure the continuation of services by another airline from East Midlands to Gibraltar as from the start of the summer season of 2013, the details of which will be announced in due course.

ssflyer

4th Jan 2014, 13:01

Am away,but just accessed email from FR cancelling my 6 BHX/GRO sectors for 2014 and on checking their web site there are now no flights and the alternative is to BCN or an expensive trip up the 42:}

bhx bod

6th Jan 2014, 14:54

I've been told today that Air Blue are to return their A340s to the lessor.
MAN flights will probably continue using A320/319s via IST as they did before.
However it is unlikely they will return to BHX anytime soon.
The company apparently is in a bad way and is looking to make savings/reduce losses.

By the way happy new year to all:)

BHD2BFS

6th Jan 2014, 18:43

hi
just wondering what ac monarch have based at bhx
are they all airbus 320 family or is there any 757 or 330 here?

LAX_LHR

6th Jan 2014, 18:58

I think its 9 A320/321. No B757 or A330 based.

OltonPete

6th Jan 2014, 19:05

BHD2BFS

Monarch this winter are 4 x A321 and 1 x A320 although it is only the weekend all 4 A321's are in service.

Summer 2014 shows nine based aircraft the same as 2013. The mix last summer was 4 x A321 and 5 x A320. I am not sure of the mix this summer.

The 757 and A300 pass through BHX now but usually only for MAEL. The A300 did get pinched to do the Rome for one flight in January.

ssflyer

Something had to give with BGY, GRO, TRS, MPL, PGF and RZE not bookable and only a few based slots available. Obviously GRO and BGY could operate exclusively from the away base but not to be. Pure guess-work but BHX could see another two of these routes go. Work colleague on PGF in May has not been told that the flight is cancelled as yet.

Pete

j636

6th Jan 2014, 19:08

Pete

They released PGF today.

OltonPete

6th Jan 2014, 19:52

j636

Interesting - I only checked April- June and it starts in July or the schedule is not fully loaded? Any ideas.

Pete

chinapattern

6th Jan 2014, 20:03

Here's hoping that BHX could be among the destinations at Ryanairs new LIS base.

j636

6th Jan 2014, 20:13

Pete wouldn't have any idea, just happened to look at July and didn't actually intend to look at PGF. One other thing AGP 5 weekly with FR outside peak summer, normal or cut?

OltonPete

6th Jan 2014, 21:42

j636

Malaga at five flights a week would be a cut but I assume the schedule could well see the two missing flights added back as there are gaps in the Tuesday and Thursday schedule.

Reus also showing two a week and Dublin just two a day some days in July.

At least the base seems to remain at four.

Pete

insuindi

7th Jan 2014, 08:56

was on LH to FRA on 19DEC, 13.xx dept, in FRA LH had an extra bus solely for connecting pax to PEK (not due to delay, we were on time, but sheer numbers).

Invicta DC4

8th Jan 2014, 14:18

Just seen on another sight that the 1 hour flight will be on February 24th at 0900. Only one flight open at the moment, others may be put on subject to demand.

cheesebag

8th Jan 2014, 14:24

I actually quite fancy that.

TCX69

9th Jan 2014, 00:00

So for S14 Charter wise it's:

MON: 4x A321, 5x A320
TCX: 3x B752

What do TOM have based? 1x B738, 4x B752 & the weekend B76W/B788?

Daza

9th Jan 2014, 08:51

TOM 767/787 ops on Fri to MTB Sat to CUN and Sun to SFB.
MON operate mainly scheduled flights with just a handful of MON charters CFU & ZTH are a couple they have operated for Olympic and Cosmos or many years. According to brochures they may also operate EFL on Sunday in 2014. :)

nigel osborne

9th Jan 2014, 16:22

Daza,

Re TOM 787s at BHX should be mentioned that they don't arrive till mid July, 763 1st half of summer season.

Nigel

nigel osborne

9th Jan 2014, 16:27

TCX69

Might be wrong but think TOM have 2 737s based next summer at BHX ?

Nigel

chinapattern

9th Jan 2014, 17:39

Might be of interest;

BBC News - Chinese plan HS2 link for disused Victorian rail line (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25664983)

ATNotts

10th Jan 2014, 07:51

9 is the maximum amount of flights that they will operate, however I am confident they will sell all the seats available with only window seats and the adjacent aisle seats being on sale, so A,B and J,K will be on sale, which is about 140 seats per flight. IIRC window seats are £150 and aisle £100.

I was astonished at the number of flights Biman suggested they might operate until I read (above) that they're only selling 140 seats per flight.

But still, that means there's + / - 1200 seats potentially on offer, which seams a heck of a lot. How many enthusiasts are there in UK (and I suppose further afield on the continent) and of that total, how many will be able to afford the price of the fares, plus getting to and from BHX?

That said, great news that this project still still on track. Should provide some positive national, and potentially worldwide, good publicity for BHX, and indeed, Birmingham.

nigel osborne

10th Jan 2014, 10:20

Chinapattern;

Re Chinese Railway investment perhaps the most interesting part is that apart from a proposed extra rail line;

"We write to express our formal interest in making long-term investments in the region, including the development and enhancement of Birmingham Airport"

Would love to know what they mean by that ?

Nigel

FlyboyUK

10th Jan 2014, 10:32

Looks like Montpellier & Trieste are not coming back for summer 2014 either

chinapattern

10th Jan 2014, 10:48

China

"We write to express our formal interest in making long-term investments in the region, including the development and enhancement of Birmingham Airport"

Would love to know what they mean by that ?

The report on Midlands Today was sadly rather vague but at least it appeared to indicate that the Chinese are looking at BHX in some form or another rather than the other way round.

Air Transat

The usual up-gauge/down-gauge between the A310 and A330 continues but it appears we will see more of the A330 this summer.

nigel osborne

10th Jan 2014, 13:58

Chinapattern,

Yes agree newspaper and TV concentrated on the new rail line proposal and didn't cover the airport bit.

As for TS ..the latest brochure through my door now shows A330s all summer. Yet their online brochure shows A310s till end of June then a mix of 332/333 from July till end of Sept..not checked Amedeus.

Did I read somewhere the 333s were going..hmm ?

Nigel

chinapattern

10th Jan 2014, 14:58

I've seen a few conflicting reports; the original plan was an all A310 operation. But from what I understand a bit of tweaking is going on up the road for some of the YYZ flights in light of AC Rouge arriving so perhaps this has freed up an A330 for BHX?

CabinCrewe

10th Jan 2014, 14:58

May in to June seems to be A310, then A332, then back to A310 in October.

EK77WNCL

10th Jan 2014, 19:59

ATNotts,

I know it probably doesn't stand for much but I'm going down to BHX to fly on it, I have a friend in Abu Dhabi who is, in one way or another, taking a flight (either DAC-BHX or BHX-BHX) and then he said that he has a couple of guys he knows coming over too because we're all meeting in Birmingham,so either way it should be a really good few days. I think the 15:00 flight on Monday will sell out stupidly fast because it's THE last flight, or at least thats what BG and Ian Allan are selling it as. And that is one of the only ones, if not the ony one that Ian Allan are selling tickets for. It appears that BHX-SEA will not be sold. Wondering if BG will be tempted to open up all 314 seats on the last flight on the monday?

I shouldn't think 1200-1500 will be that difficult for BG on this occasion. I think there will be A LOT of people interested. And it'll be a nice little money making scheme for them and hopefully inspire KLM to do the same for the MD11. Air Koryo and Biman Bangladesh know what they're doing with us enthusiasts ;)

globetrotter79

10th Jan 2014, 20:54

Since the BHX-BHX flights appear to be going on sale publicly on the Biman website as some sort of quasi-scheduled or scheduled charter flights...as daft as it may sound, I assume formally speaking Biman must apply for domestic cabotage traffic rights from the UK DfT, which also requires non-objection from UK carriers?

I'm not saying that I don't want to see hear flights operate (quite the opposite) but one wonders whether the DfT would require traffic permits requirements to be followed to the letter (remember the Thai Business Air debacle in LBA?!)

EK77WNCL

11th Jan 2014, 00:33

Interesting point globetrotter, however, Ian Allan Travel are selling 50% of tickets... May Biman have found a very clever loophole do you think?

It will be interesting to see how it goes though. It would be nice if something could work for Biman haha, lets hope there aren't any technical problems.

SWBKCB

11th Jan 2014, 07:57

Ian Allan have plenty of experience with this sort of thing, so doubt they would be involved if the permissions side hadn't been sorted out.

nigel osborne

11th Jan 2014, 10:20

Crikey everywhere I look its Biman.Biman,Biman.

Take it theres absolutely nothing else going on at BHX in 2014 ?

Nigel

crewmeal

11th Jan 2014, 10:56

Nigel I think the spotter from Newcastle has hijacked the forum. As it's an enthusiasts topic I think it should go in the spotters forum.

crewmeal

11th Jan 2014, 11:01

Back on topic. Have the flight path issues been sorted yet? as I believe there are still grumbles in the Hampton area about potentially more noise due to the extension. What happened to the new flight path trials that took place earlier on?

getonittt

11th Jan 2014, 13:55

Nothing from Turkish airlines yet about the increase to double daily so far. They have made increases to LGW/EDI & DUB for 2014 I would hope to see it announced soon for a summer 2014 start...

nigel osborne

11th Jan 2014, 14:07

Crewmeal,

Did read they are to trial the new flightpaths before the end of spring.

Getonnit.

TK load factors have slowed down, possibly due to AI.We are still getting some A321s though think 2 last week.

Nigel

GayFriendly

11th Jan 2014, 23:57

Lots of interest for the farewell Biman DC10 flights, however any news on the proposed 777 DAC-BHX-JFK scheduled service actually starting, it's not bookable yet on the Biman website? Has it been loaded into any GDS yet?

I think I read that TK have gone to double daily from EDI from S14, a very quick frequency upgrade. AI must be affecting them at BHX a bit. 10 weekly still very good though.

Air Blue have reduced MAN-ISB to an A320 and are dropping it altogether from March 16th. Why on earth did they bother operating from BHX for just a few weeks when a UK pull-out was obviously on the cards?

crewmeal

12th Jan 2014, 06:34

however any news on the proposed 777 DAC-BHX-JFK scheduled service actually starting, it's not bookable yet on the Biman website? Has it been loaded into any GDS yet?

Which is a concern as most carriers will have their summer timetables 'written in stone' and beyond. How do Binman expect to get passengers if you can't book a flight? Personally I don't think UA have anything to worry about.

OltonPete

12th Jan 2014, 10:25

GF

I must admit I was quite surprised that double daily was suggested as figures were modest although I realise with hubs it is the way forward for stimulating growth. I expected the same as what they did at Dublin and go 12 weekly in 2014. Both BHX and EDI had very modest figures in November and were identical most summer months.

Biman

I understood the 6th was the release date but I heard still problems with the US side of things.

KLM

Slight increase in summer with the F70 flight changing to a 737 and the 190 switches from first inbound to second but no sign of the 738 on the night-stop other than ad-hoc.

flybe

I think the decision to ground some 195's has affected a really successful new IT from 2013 with Preveza still available but it takes you to a Gatwick departure. I looked to use this in 2013 and it sold really well and very quickly but obviously not enough for a bigger aircraft assuming there is an aircraft or airline available.

thomson

Not sure what the base is but most flights but not all are showing extra legroom but I believe the 738's are been modified or were to be. However if that is the case surely all flights would be offered.

Pete

stuart hammond

12th Jan 2014, 18:05

Can any one help with seats on the BHX-EWR service, is their a usb point on seats in economy.

stuart

oceanhawk

13th Jan 2014, 12:35

Olton Pete,

I do not believe the 738 are to be modified with extra legroom . The 757 s were modified as part of a cabin upgrade programme , because they were becoming tired. The extra legroom seats are in the front cabin.
I believe it's 3 757 and 2 738 for summer 2014 as it was last year.

hammerb32

13th Jan 2014, 12:43

Stuart,

There's no USB point in the UA seats.

ta

nigel osborne

13th Jan 2014, 16:23

Re United,

The United 757s we flew on last year from BHX were nails. One had water dripping from the overhead air con onto my daughter half the flight.The other a rattly window with a piece of cardboard shoved to try and reduce this.

Suppose they are not going to do much refurbishment when they will probably be removed from transatlantic flights within the next 5 years.

Their widebodied fleets are getting upgrades with new seats,Improved IFE and an upgrade to a Premium economy section on more flight.

The 787s are top heavy in Business class seats and only 80 in economy.

Nigel

getonittt

13th Jan 2014, 19:06

I think you are getting confused with the product. UA 787's are 113 standard economy, 70 economy plus (just a slightly greatly seat pitch) and 36 business first (lie flat) as opposed to the 108/45/16 on the 757 .

OltonPete

15th Jan 2014, 16:15

2013 signed off in great fashion with passenger figures up 7.9% for the month and 2.3% for the year.

CAA provisional figures show December 574035 up 7.9%, rolling year 9117096 up 2.3%

ATM's for December 5703 up 3.8% and the rolling year 84858 up 0.9%.

Best figures since 2008 which I think was the highest at 597653

December did see one spectacular day by modern standards for diversions most of which off-loaded and might have affected the figures a little bit.

Time to look at the individual routes.

Pete

Ringwayman

16th Jan 2014, 06:48

Might need to wait a while for the correct BHX figures as I somehow disbelieve that 124 services to Dubai only produced 264 passengers :eek:

insuindi

16th Jan 2014, 07:15

also errors for other routes, e.g. BHX-HAJ shows 0 pax.

111KAB

16th Jan 2014, 11:14

Growth sees Birmingham Airport pass 9m milestone - Birmingham Post (http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/business/business-news/growth-sees-birmingham-airport-pass-6510965)

Kazamb

17th Jan 2014, 10:28

A number of weeks after exiting from BHX, it appears that all MAN routes have been suspended:

http://www.airblue.com/content/news?id=bd889a3c-ce25-402d-a07f-01f24c912d23

PPRuNe Pop

17th Jan 2014, 14:10

This forum is not for chat, making arrangements or anything else that goes off topic.

If you want to contact someone with personal details or matters not relevant to sensible debate - do so by our PM system.

And, by the way, stop behaving like children!

PPP

Daza

17th Jan 2014, 15:05

Interesting article from the Business standard on Delhi as a hub and the Birmingham-Delhi route.It would appear that the route has proven to be more than just a VFR Amritsar flight. :)

Delhi airport emerging hub for global flyers | Business Standard (http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/delhi-airport-emerging-hub-for-global-flyers-114011601109_1.html)

Great news on the 8% increase in passengers in December and that 2013 saw passengers above 9m once again Passenger Numbers Continue to Climb at Birmingham Airport - Birmingham Airport (http://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/meta/news/2014/01/passenger-numbers-climb-at-birmingham-airport.aspx). :D
Daza

getonittt

17th Jan 2014, 19:47

It's not only PAX that are making use of the BHX-DEL-SYD connection , I know it is also being used for freight too especially when the EK is full.

GayFriendly

17th Jan 2014, 20:12

OPO now appears in the drop down list of destinations from BHX when booking flights on FR website, it is an updated list of destinations as MPL, TRS, GRO are not listed; perhaps this route returns for summer 2014? BGY sadly still not bookable, it would seem that FR are happy with a few exceptions to focus on Poland and Spain from BHX.

Good news on the continued success of AI route, am looking at going to India at the end of April for a holiday, however at present EK flights to DEL and others are much, much cheaper than AI direct.

nigel osborne

17th Jan 2014, 21:15

Gayfriendly

Think many have lost interest with Ryan Air at BHX, we just seem to tread water 1 service gained usually means another chopped to make way, so no gain to the airport.

Nigel

OltonPete

17th Jan 2014, 21:37

December 13

Provisional Figures removed by the CAA for BHX - I went to check expecting DXB, HAJ to show and FUE corrected but they have all gone.#

oceanhawk - Interesting but 4 out of 5 departures in the morning and evening are showing extra legroom although I concede that it seems unlikely that a 757 would replace a 738 - more likely the other way round!!!

GF - I don't remember Porto ever leaving the booking engine ever since it was dropped or certainly I have at least seen displayed off and on. I think BGY might still happen as plenty of gaps in the schedule.

Nigel - Still hopefully for the annual new route from Ryanair but I agree all very static although this is a bad year with MPL, TRS and GRO ending.

Thomas Cook

Seems flybe have forced them into changes with the withdrawal of the 195. The Saturday flybe Faro changes to Thomas Cook and the Palma by TCX is now Orbest. I can't find anything in place of the flybe Sunday Almeria.

Although not Thomas Cook the flybe Preveza as mentioned before seems to have gone as well.

Transat A330 showing in GDS from 1-7-2014

Pete

Alex321

17th Jan 2014, 22:10

Slight increase in capacity from Mon this summer from BHX, 7 x A321 and 2 x A320 v the 5 A320 and 4 A321 last summer. Capacity this summer of 3692 seats per day vs 3452 per day last number (based on each a/c working 2 rotations a day, there are however days when there are additional night flights, for example fri-sun with additional night flights over 4000 seats to sell per day)

OltonPete

18th Jan 2014, 13:51

Alex321

Thank you for the update and indeed that is an excellent increase.

The next A320 is due at MAEL today flying Kemble - East Mids - BHX. I am sure that there is a good reason for that, no doubt someone will explain. Note "next" not new as a 2001 build.

Flybe

Preveza appears to be available again clearly showing as flybe unless Cosmos intend to find a replacement but yet to finalise the details of the alternative carrier. I check several dates last week with no availability even the dates of my prospective holiday and very much bookable this week whereas it defaulte to Gatwick last week.

I never really unerstood this one as 195 does not go to Paris on a Sunday morning and what other schedule services require a 195 at 06.00 on a Sunday. Thomas Cook Almeria on flybe has not been replaced as yet.

Thomson Chania seems to have gone for summer.

Pete

nigel osborne

18th Jan 2014, 16:05

Pete,

Thanks for the update, are the TCX flts extras or have the Fly Be passengers just been moved onto an existing flight ?

Orbest is a nice change if it survives.

Air Transat, they really don't seem sure about what they want to do out of BHX.

I really can't see them keeping BHX for much longer as a bolt on airport when their others (MAN,LGW,GLA) have at least 3 routes.They have already recently disposed of NCL,CWL as 1 destination airports, leaving just BHX..

Therefore think 2015 might be a crunch year, will they add Calgary and Vancouver ,or will they chop BHX ?

Nigel

Centre cities

18th Jan 2014, 16:10

Does it not depend on if it makes money or not, its not a bolt on, the crews just make a relatively short journey at the conclusion of the flight to a Midlands hotel instead of a London or Manchester one or alternately travel down in the morning. not a great extra cost.

Perhaps the other regional departures were not making money.

Centre cities

111KAB

18th Jan 2014, 16:46

Manufacturing / JLR chief hits out at "lack of priority" for Birmingham Airport THEBUSINESSDESK.COM (http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/westmidlands/news/567502-jlr-chief-hits-out-at-lack-of-priority-for-birmingham-airport.html?news_section=54023)

nigel osborne

18th Jan 2014, 20:42

Centre Cities,

I base my reasoning on contact I had with Air Transat some months ago, when I asked them if they would add Vancouver and Calgary in 2014 to BHX when our runway extension would allow.

Also if they would add another YYZ as we had a 97% load factor on an A330 last year..

The gent replied these was not in their plans for 2014 and BHX was lucky ,as it was their only UK airport with just 1 flt and destination, and therefore operationally it was more problematic.

Nigel

insuindi

18th Jan 2014, 22:16

For a change good news from FlyBE.

It looks as if BHX-HAJ, MXP and STR (after all) will all be twice daily for summer 2014, with very attractive timings allowing for day returns in both directions.

BHX-HAJ
BHX Dep 07:05 Arr 09:50 HAJ Dep 10:15 Arr 11:15 BHX
BHX Dep 17:00 Arr 19:45 HAJ Dep 20:10 Arr 21:10 BHX
based on timings this appears to be E175?

BHX-MXP (below daily EDIT: third flight on Sat removed)
BHX Dep 06:45 Arr 09:50 MXP Dep 10:20 Arr 11:30 BHX
BHX Dep 16:50 Arr 19:55 MXP Dep 20:25 Arr 21:35 BHX

BHX-STR
BHXDep 07:10 Arr 10:05 STR Dep 10:30 Arr 11:30 BHX
BHX Dep 16:40 Arr 19:35 STR Dep 20:00 Arr 21:00 BHX
also E175?

Based on this, I'd expect more changes at BHX due to timetable/fleet implications?

Centre cities

18th Jan 2014, 23:09

I think that you are correct, the IOM is all over the place for the summer, 2 daily then one daily with the arrival and departure times not corresponding. Indeed some of the days seem to fit in with the IOM Liverpool aircraft schedule gap.

Centre ciries

crewmeal

19th Jan 2014, 06:59

If those flybe flights are operated by jets then they will be similar to the old days when Maersk and BA operated the routes with similar departures. They should attract a lot more business pax. Doing a random check for STR the fares seem quite reasonable. However the timings look like they are operated by turboprops.

OltonPete

19th Jan 2014, 10:33

flybe

Certainly interesting development but not a total surprise as I posted on the flybe thread only six to eight 175's were scheduled to fly in the original revised timetable.

With the six 175's as insuindi has stated there should be more changes to come to increase late morning & early afternoon flying although the afternoon Amsterdam is now showing as the 175.

Could we seen a new destination to mainland Europe, say once a day?

The based Q400's still seem to go AMS, ABZ, JER and GLA in the morning, which with the Paris CDG 195 makes 11 based.

Other than the impact on local jobs at BHX if added to the expected increase in Monarch seats (due to more A321) then 2014 might not be as bad as first thought.

Nigel - Thomas Cook I think is the loss of one flight and a few seats.

Two flybe 195 flights lost with one Orbest gained. The 757 flights have just been juggled some gains and losses on inividual routes but I believe the same number of flights as 2013.

On general matter it is widely acknowledged that the current period is tough and the flybe reductions back this up but overall BHX seems to be thriving with add-hoc freight, GA, training, charters and MAEL and hopefully this is all adding to the bottom line.

The downside is the lack of news re Biman - still not bookable I believe.

Pete

insuindi

19th Jan 2014, 11:26

TXL-BHX will continue on the reduced 4/7 schedule for summer, all operated by 4U A319.

@crewmeal: forFlyBE HAJ, MXP, STR seatmaps show inventory for E175.

j636

19th Jan 2014, 12:44

Was pricing United to EWR in May return for 1 person and its coming in at 1,680. Now I do support BHX direct services where possible but when I have just picked up flights with Aer Lingus for 687. United fares are extortion, APD has nothing to do with it as I pay with both carriers. I could of got it slightly cheaper with EI if I transited in SNN but DUB is much better. Business class with EI is even cheaper than Y fare with UA. I could even get to SFO with EI and have 600 to spare with UA fares.

Either United are making huge profits on the route or they wan t to driver passengers away.

EI-BUD

19th Jan 2014, 14:41

J636 - reading your post, it might be the case the UA are underestimating what competition they have ex BHX and pricing accordingly !

nigel osborne

19th Jan 2014, 14:45

J636.

Re United fares assume you are looking as Business Class or US Dollars, as I have just found numerous return direct fares to and from BHX around £640.00 in May on the United website ??

Nigel

crewmeal

19th Jan 2014, 17:29

Even cheaper on another comparison site. I see PIA have cancelled their flight today and rescheduling the pax for Tuesday's flight. I wonder what sort of compensation the pax will get. I hope this won't be a regular thing.

j636

19th Jan 2014, 20:20

Nigel

That was the Y fare, only going for a meetings so departing 19, returning 20. I didn't look other dates as I wasn't can't go others. The Business fare on the day 3,200.

Cloud1

19th Jan 2014, 22:01

J636 - maybe one of the sectors was just very busy. One could argue that it is your inflexibility which is the problem even if it is not your own personal doing.

It's like anything, even Ryanair have sometimes been more expensive than other carriers from airports up the road.

j636

19th Jan 2014, 22:42

Fully agree, dates not changeable but the seat maps are not packed out, you would possible expect to see this price for a flight that is almost full and last minute booking. Not to worry anyway!

Keyvon

20th Jan 2014, 01:08

Flybe double daily service to Milan/MXP seems to come at the expense of Ryanair's Milan/BGY which appears to have gone for S14.

111KAB

21st Jan 2014, 10:42

Birmingham Tops UK Punctuality Charts | Airports International | The Airport Industry online, the latest airport industry news (http://www.airportsinternational.com/2014/01/birmingham-tops-uk-punctuality-charts/15164)

OltonPete

21st Jan 2014, 18:10

Flybe Boosts Summer Schedule From Birmingham - Birmingham Airport (http://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/meta/news/2014/01/flybe-boosts-summer-schedule-from-birmingham.aspx)

Note the comment re new route planning is "well advanced".

At least it seems something is brewing in respect of new routes.

Pete

insuindi

21st Jan 2014, 20:15

Thanks for posting the news release, keen to see what FlyBE has in store!

Hoping that the next press release will be somewhat better compiled, the schedule is somewhat all over the place, suggesting a third frequency even for MXP.. and completely ommitting HAJ...

Runway15

21st Jan 2014, 21:39

Just found this press report:

Biman gets $356m to buy two aircraft | Govt approves the hard-term loans from foreign sources (http://www.thedailystar.net/business/biman-gets-356m-to-buy-two-aircraft-7823)

Wonder if that's good news for BHX?

getonittt

21st Jan 2014, 23:06

The press release on the BHX site looks confusing.
At first look it seems like there are 14 departures a week rising to 20 for the period 24/05/14 - 13/09/14.
The key point missing is that the flights 24/05/14-13/09/14 are Saturday ONLY.
The current Flybe timetable has these departures from 31/03/14 :

06.45 Daily
07.15 Sa only
13.50 Sa only (24/05/14 -13/09/14)
16.50 Daily EX Sa (16.55 on a Sunday)

So it's 15 departures a week in high summer . Why would 3 departures on Saturday be needed? seems overkill.
nevertheless congratulations to Flybe for expanding the BHX operations on a flight they know ( ditto Stuttgart) hope it works out for them.

Daza

22nd Jan 2014, 07:07

Getonittt wrote Why would 3 departures on Saturday be needed? seems overkill.

I've checked the BHX-MXP schedule for Saturday in Summer 2014 this morning and its now listed as twice daily on Saturday, one of those departures, the later of the two is probably being predominantly used by a tour operator (Inghams) for holidays to the Italian Lakes.

Daza

JC25

22nd Jan 2014, 10:31

MAN-MXP also has an extra frequency on a Saturday so I suspect that they have struck a deal with a tour company on these routes.

Hotel Tango

23rd Jan 2014, 18:10

Was the DUS not supposed to change to GWI (operated by EWG) in April or May this year? Happened to be booking flights in August and noted that it's still showing as DLH operated by EWG.

BHX5DME

23rd Jan 2014, 19:57

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.794583983889684.1073741836.509982045683214&type=1#!/photo.php?fbid=794584033889679&set=a.794583983889684.1073741836.509982045683214&type=3&theater

getonittt

23rd Jan 2014, 22:32

The Dusseldorf transition is not straight forward. How I see it is that You will be still flying on a CRJ900 of Eurowings. The flight will be operated on behalf of Germanwings who in turn are operating it on DLH flight numbers . . In effect they are being wet leased to GWI.

Hotel Tango

24th Jan 2014, 09:00

Hmm, all quite confusing and, bottom line, no change then :hmm:

insuindi

24th Jan 2014, 09:13

Timeline for LH to 4U change here - https://www.lufthansa.com/mediapool/jpg/03/media_1336754003.jpg?WT.mc_id=NLemail_lhcom_DE_de_KW48&no-mobile-redirect=Y&WT.mc_id=DE_de_NLemail

No DUS-BHX date appears to be specified so far.

Eurowings and Germanwings are both fully owned by LH (not always been the case).

As long as the flight DUS-BHX has not been transitioned to 4U, it will be operated by Eurowings on behalf of LH with a LH flight number (as for many years now).
Once transitioned, same as with HAM-BHX, Eurowings will continue flying, but with a 4U flight number. With this 4U number, it will be bookable through lh.com or germanwings.com (latter normally works out cheaper).
The only visible thing to change is the change of on-board catering and luggage fees.

What will be an interesting time is when Eurowings ceases to fly for germanwings - this is only supposed to be a temporary measure. In the mid-term Germanwings is planned to be operating an all Airbus fleet, which wouldn't be all that well suted for the routes e.g. out of BHX.

Hotel Tango

24th Jan 2014, 10:40

Well in fact, as you stated, DUS-BHX is not specified in that link. So what makes you so sure that that route will be taken over by GWI?

getonittt

24th Jan 2014, 11:07

Hotel Tango , i did say the transition is not straight forward!

Germanwings is planned to be operating an all Airbus fleet, which wouldn't be all that well suted for the routes e.g. out of BHX

Insuinidi , why would you say that? DUS is one of BHX's top routes, it carries more pax than MAN (may suprise some people) and is on a par with the MUC route.

Ian Brooks

24th Jan 2014, 11:27

probably because Manchester has Cologne as well

ian

rutankrd

24th Jan 2014, 11:52

No DUS-BHX date appears to be specified so far.

Eurowings and Germanwings are both fully owned by LH (not always been the case).

According to a CAPA report of the subject Dusseldorf completes its transition to Germanwings by start Summer 2015.
Thereafter all Dusseldorf short haul will be under the GWI branding

There remains 5 mainline LH 32x at Dusseldorf through 2014 plus several Eurowings CRJ900s.

16 (4 already received) 320s and 4 extra 319s will be transferred to Germanwings between now and summer 2015.

The Eurowings fleet of 23 CRJ 900s are scheduled to remain in group post 2015 and provisionally all should be operating within the Germanwings network.

The plan for other regional brand Lufthansa Cityline will be they loose the CRJ and retain the Embraer 190/195 based out of Munich and thin routes from Frankfurt operating in support of mainline.

insuindi

24th Jan 2014, 15:59

@geonittt
My primary concern would have been BHX-HAM/TXL regarding a CRJ/Airbus switch. For TXL that WILL mean 4/7 in summer, for HAM I have no doubt that daily wouldn't be sustainable with an Airbus. But if rutankrd is right, then the CRJs have some time left fortunately.

GayFriendly

24th Jan 2014, 16:38

According to the NCL thread, the T3 service BHX-NCL will be operated by AIS Airlines on behalf of T3 from 3rd Feb using a J31. No mention if frequency stays the same. Am amazed this route has clung on for so long, perhaps a smaller a/c (T3 use a J41?) will help the route survive?

OltonPete

24th Jan 2014, 18:07

insuindi

I agree with your views on Hamburg and like Berlin it will either go 4 a week or disappear.

Slight improvement on the Berlin load factor in December but maybe four is about right from now on and as some say one for flybe on the 175 it 4U give it the chop.

Norwegian

I didn't think we would seing them so quickly alas not a pax in sight but one of their 787's apparently will be gracing the BHX tarmac in an hour or so (weather permitting). MAEL seem to be building nicely with Thomson "BK" here and a Jet2 757 this week as well as flybe and their own equipment.

STATS

They have been updated as expected for December but still wrong in some instances, I believe some charter figureshave been mixed in with schedule.

Dubai up 9% 44008 average 355 per flight and 84%. A few three class on EK39 this week which is disappointing but seems to be back on track.

Ryanair

Milan MXP is in the booking engine so I assume Bergamo will get released one day. It does not show on the first search but does when you edit. The BHX schedule is still far from complete.

GF - Nobody could ever moan at Eastern for not giving it a chance. They seem to be trying everything but from four to three to two and now a smaller aircraft does indicate that all is not well.

Pete

rutankrd

24th Jan 2014, 18:35

[I didn't think we would seeing them so quickly alas not a pax in sight but one of their 787's apparently will be gracing the BHX tarmac in an hour or so (weather permitting).

Leak repairs one presumes!

bhx bod

24th Jan 2014, 18:53

A very busy few hours in store for The Monarch engineers.Not only is a Norwegian 787 due in within the hour but an RAF A330 arrived a couple of hours ago and if rumours are correct another is also due either tonight or tomorrow.
Not sure if they will all fit in the hangar though!!!!

SWBKCB

24th Jan 2014, 18:53

Am amazed this route has clung on for so long

Having used the train from NCL to BHX, I'm not...

nigel osborne

24th Jan 2014, 21:01

BHX BOD

Theres a TOM 767 in the MAEL hangar and a Jet 2 757 on its apron.

The Norwegian 787 is on remote stand 85C and the RAF A330 86C.

Norwegian should go in the hangar tomorrow.

Happy days at BHX thanks to MAEL.

Nigel

GayFriendly

24th Jan 2014, 21:25

Nigel, happy days agreed but it's a shame that at present happy days news regarding BHX relies mostly on the empty arriving and departing aircraft visiting the MAEL facility!

SWBKCB - Yes the T3 service is far quicker and easier than the train to/from NCL but at the prices they charge so it should be! Frequency reduction and now a smaller aircraft indicates all is not well with the route. I once flew from NCL to BHX when Maersk operated it, but only because I was BA staff and travelled on a cheapo ID90 ticket......

ATNotts

25th Jan 2014, 09:10

GayFriendly

Nigel, happy days agreed but it's a shame that at present happy days news regarding BHX relies mostly on the empty arriving and departing aircraft visiting the MAEL facility!

I guess that viewpoint depends upon whether you're looking for interesting aircraft to photograph or record, or whether it's the real business of the airport which encompasses maintenance as well as cargo and passenger operations.

From the latter perspective in the last couple of weeks we've seen reported booming passenger numbers (though you can't read too much into one months statistics), route expansion from FlyBe, already announced, with allegedly more to follow; Biman - though granted it hasn't actually gone on sale, a fairly robust freight operation - considering the operational constraints, and of course the runway extension moving towards a finish sometime this spring.

OK, the old chestnuts about lack of Ryanair growth, lack of bucket and spade flights, lots of long haul development at another airport NW of BHX, and losing services like Air Blue could balance the equations, but overall I reckon BHX isn't doing too badly just now.

By the way - I don't work for the BHX PR department; and living as I do on the east side of the "midlands wall" I wish that EMA could offer half the range of services and frequency that BHX does!