IRELAND WEST AIRPORT KNOCK

[heneghan_j]

Hi Guys,

I'm booked on return flight with EI to LGW and the flight schedule changed multiple times.

It's now confined departure time from NOC on 16th August at 19:55

I've check out the EI website and it seems all flights have changed to 19:55 departure from NOC and 18:00 from LGW.

Looks like direct competition with FR on the evening services to London

[heneghan_j]

I've just noticed an error on the EI website for Satudays service around that time;

LGW departure 10:10
NOC arrival 11:35

But on same day

NOC departure 10:05
LGW arrival. 11:30

I'm sure they may be doing early flights on sat but we'll after these changes

[AerRyan]

Aer Lingus doing a 19:55 gatwick flight? Wouldn't have thought it!

[heneghan_j]

Same here, remind me of the old XL Airways service to LGW that used to be in the evening

[iwak]

I think this will be very popular as people will not have to take a full day off work to fly to knock as it was up to now also it provides a nearly full day in the west on sunday. Well done Aer lingus!

[Jamie2k9]

I've just noticed an error on the EI website for Satudays service around that time;

LGW departure 10:10
NOC arrival 11:35

But on same day

NOC departure 10:05
LGW arrival. 11:30

I'm sure they may be doing early flights on sat but we'll after these changes

12.00 ex NOC, 09.50 ex LGW or around that.

[Dreamliner_01]

12.00 ex NOC, 09.50 ex LGW or around that.

Knock flight from gatwick confirmed as a 19:00 arrival daily from gatwick for the summer season interesting to see how it does

[EI-BUD]

This late arrival time does not provide much in the way of opportunities for connecting traffic. Getting into LGW so late does not allow for any connectivity without a 1 night stay.

Moreover, what does this late departure do for Knock airports cost base? Needing to stay open much later every day? The airport traditionally didn't have departures so late in the evening this allowing for a shorter day. Again that was a reason why a Ryanair base wouldn't be attractive.. Ie too long a day at considerable cost... Like the Blackpool example and Jet2.

[Kinocker]

7pm isn't that late though, the flights will be departing at 7:25pm or 7:30pm so it would only be an extra hour or two of operations. Also, it stays open to a similar time on Friday, Sunday, Monday and possibly Thursday during the summer already to accommodate Ryanair flights to/from London, so it would only be an extra three or four days a week and it would be during the busier period of the year.


However, you're right, it's hopeless for outbound connections from Gatwick.


Separately, I see Knock has issued an unusually muted response to the announcement of capital funding for the proposed apron and runway improvement works. I suspect they think it is a pre-election stunt and will believe that the funding will actually be provided when they see it.

[AerRyan]

Arriving at 7pm and departing at 7:25pm? Remember the airline!
Earliest for EI would be 7:40pm.

[EI-A330-300]

LGW times
18.00-19.25-19.55-21.15 x6
10.05-11.30-12.05-13.30 6

Going to add an extra 1-1.5 hours per day Mon-Fri but last summer it was open until around 7 most days so not a lot really.

First flights arrive around 08.40 most days earlier and the last departure is around 18.00 excluding the above however on Sunday there is also a 20.50 to BHX.

Cost may balance out as there is much less of a peak period at lunchtime so in theory staff should be restored differently so it should have minimal cost as less would be required together.

Can see the EI flight been a hit on Fir/Sun/Mon with passengers.

[Kinocker]

Yes it will be very popular as a point to point route which, to be fair, is what the vast majority of passengers use the route for.

[heneghan_j]

Hi Guys,

Last week I seen a post on snapchat by Ireland West Knock, one of the staff was in Vilnius, Lithuania and stated that they were after new growth opportunities. Even though this isn't official information, coincidentally yesterday Ryanair announced their 82nd base Vilnius, with 2 based a/c, new routes and increased frequencies.

Since KUN was moved to SNN, and VNO being the capital maybe this could be a potential new route for Ryanair in FY17?

[1sky]

Last week I seen a post on snapchat by Ireland West Knock, one of the staff was in Vilnius, Lithuania and stated that they were after new growth opportunities. Even though this isn't official information, coincidentally yesterday Ryanair announced their 82nd base Vilnius, with 2 based a/c, new routes and increased frequencies.

Since KUN was moved to SNN, and VNO being the capital maybe this could be a potential new route for Ryanair in FY17?

The NOC staff member was probably in Vilnius for the Routes Connect conference (the same one that took place in Killarney last year). I wouldn't read anything else into it.

[iwak]

Was at the airport today for the Edinburgh arrival approx 30/35 arrived on inbound and approx 55 departed on the outbound .This looks promising considering it's only the second day of operation.There is very positive comments on social media about the return of Bhx route .

It looks like an embraer was operated on Sunday for the route launch pics

[sunday8pm]

Does anyone have any info on the EMA schedule for winter 16/17? Not on sale yet..

[sawtooth]

Bye bye 09/27, runway designation 08/26 from 28th April 2016

Ireland West Airport Knock (http://www.irelandwestairport.com/utility/news_details.aspx?id=391)

[iwak]

Any news on loads on Bhx and Edi routes ?

[CabinCrewe]

....wait for the CAA figures later this week. Will no doubt be the same as when they operated last!

[iwak]

Well I would hope to see a bit of an improvement considering the Irish and uk economies are in a better state than they were 3 years ago

[Dreamliner_01]

Knock airport turns 30 today - hard to believe its 30 years - great story behind it and great to see they expecting 2016 to be busiest ever year - seen this on youtube earlier from their gala concert - some nice words from key aviation figures https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF1EvmD74Nw

[iwak]

I know Caa stats have not been released but has anyone any idea how Edinburgh is performing ! Anybody used the service?

[Kinocker]

I've used it quite a few times (as I always do with any Scottish service to Knock!). From my experience the loads have varied from similar to the last time the service ran (40-50% of seats filled) to a major improvement (over 75% of seats filled).


The route definitely benefitted from the exploits of Connacht Rugby this year - Glasgow Warriors visited twice in successive weeks for important games in May, then Connacht played in the Pro 12 final in Edinburgh at the end of the month. This resulted in a lot of flights on the route being sold out by supporters around that time. I think the Glasgow team and coaching setup also used it for at least one of those trips.


The last time I flew the route (about three weeks ago) there were 67 on board heading for Edinburgh on a Monday evening. I doubt that is representative of an average load though, it was probably just a particularly busy day.


The main difference between this time and last time is that the route is now operating six days a week. I haven't had a reason to fly it on a Tuesday or Wednesday yet, but I suspect the improved weekend loads may be cancelled out by weaker midweek numbers. Of course the Brexit vote will not help inbound tourism this summer either.


It's a pity we don't have the CAA stats this year to get a better idea of how it is doing, although the CSO stats will eventually start to cover the months the service has operated.

[VickersVicount]

depends at what end, the Brexit inbound tourism will be better at EDI if pound stayed down. still think this is a precarious route however

[Dreamliner_01]

depends at what end, the Brexit inbound tourism will be better at EDI if pound stayed down. still think this is a precarious route however

Definitely agree - too much capacity on it at six per week four per week during summer is plenty - interesting to see if it can be sustained during winter

[iwak]

Yeah I think if Aer lingus regional hadn't reinstated Shannon Edi ,6 per week would have been fine ! I think 4 per week is the right frequency so we will see how winter works out.

[Kinocker]

Very quiet on the Knock thread this summer but it looks like the airport is having another decent year with 2016 numbers up by about 14000 to the end of July compared to 2015. That would put the airport on course for about 700,000 passengers for the year and give it a chance of surpassing 2014, which was the busiest year to date (703,000 passengers).

[PPRuNeUser0176]

FR are scaling back London capacity which will hit numbers over winter.

[AerRyan]

With the addition of Flybe its all to play for.

Stansted down to 10x weekly next summer.

[PPRuNeUser0176]

EMA and STN changes over winter will likely balance whatever Flybe bring to the table.
________
Assuming the freq posted on NOC website for BHX/EDI the loads for and based on all Dash 8 ops:

BHX (Daily ex Sat)
April - 58.9
May - 58.9
Yes the same LF, not a mistake....

EDI (Daily ex Sat)
April - 40.5
May - 56.0

Not New but:
MAN (Daily ex Wed/Sat)
April - 72.9
May - 69.6

[Dreamliner_01]

Looking at the deep cuts coming at Shannon for next summer with the expected loss of Paris and Munich - knock looks to have got off rather lightly with just one rotation cut on the stansted service for summer 2017 - they do very well to keep their schedule intact I'd say

[fivejuliet]

Actually Knock won't be getting off lightly, at least 1 service could well be gone

[AerRyan]

And what service is this?

[PPRuNeUser0176]

Reckon BGY could be for the chop,

[iwak]

I'd be surprised to see bgy go it's been operating for 4/5 years now and loads are good.Ryanair did state that they would be reducing uk services and deploying capacity to Europe .In the case of Shannon I presume it's non performance of Paris and Munich that have resulted in the withdrawal

[Jamie2k9]

A new destination may be announced soon....not scheduled.

All FR routes stay according to schedule release.

[Dreamliner_01]

A new destination may be announced soon....not scheduled.

All FR routes stay according to schedule release.

Knocks schedule is remaining intact for summer 2017 which is great news considering the massive cuts in Shannon for next year and the reduction in services from Dublin also

[iwak]

Milan , Barcelona and Alicante still not on sale ?? How has Edinburgh performed over the summer ?

[AerRyan]

Seasonal peaks not loaded yet for any airport, relax.

[Kinocker]

Anecdotally (i.e. based purely on my own semi-frequent use of the route and others I know that have used it) there has been a big upswing in loads on the Edinburgh route this summer compared to the last time it ran. So much so that they have been leaving bags behind for weight reasons on quite a few occasions. The only caveat on that is that it is based almost entirely on Friday, Sunday and Monday flights, so the increase to six flights per week might bring down the overall load factor if midweek flights had low loads.

The route has now gone to five weekly for October and then four weekly from November onwards for the winter season. I would expect the route to struggle a bit in the quiet months after Christmas.

[Kinocker]

Knock passenger numbers up 16.1% in August and up 6.4% in September. Numbers are up over 30,000 on last year for the nine months to the end of September. Looking good for a record year.

[Knock63]

Great news Kinocker, where did you see that info? I can't find it online!

[Dreamliner_01]

Ryanair have released the girona Milan and Alicante services for summer 2017 so looks like their schedule relatively unscathed and similar to summer 2016

[Kinocker]

Knock 63 - those stats are from the anna.aero database, which tends to be very reliable for this kind of thing.


The Edinburgh route carried 2,714 passengers in July for a load factor of 67%, which is by a mile the highest passenger numbers and load factor that route has achieved over the years. Hopefully it will be here to stay this time around.

[inOban]

I had assumed that this was a seasonal route, but it seems to be running all winter, albeit not daily. Must be an earner.

[iwak]

That's a great result for July for Edi , all flybe routes seemed to have performed well over the summer.Manchester was operated by an embraer for most of July and August.

Any new routes on the horizon?

[AerRyan]

Heard something (not hopeful though) about an inbound french charter, besides that nothing.

[Dreamliner_01]

Knock will do well to consolidate what they have and keep improving load factors on their existing U.K. Services etc which should hopefully position them for further growth in 2018

[Kinocker]

Yes, it's hard to see where new routes would come from for next year, unless a new sun charter or something. Ryanair are not in the mood for expansion from Irish airports and I don't know where else flybe could successfully fly to from Knock. The transatlantic charters received far too much PR and I would be amazed if they led to anything in the way of scheduled services. There's no hope of a route to Heathrow and no sign of anything to any of the other hub airports.


So, in short, sustaining and improving the loads on exiting routes will most likely be the aim in 2017. That's not necessarily a bad thing though as sustaining passenger numbers north of 700,000 would be a good short term achievement for the airport.

[Dreamliner_01]

Good summary kinocker even sustaining what they have might be a challenge against the backdrop of 'brexit' which Will surely have an impact on U.K. Numbers an which is the core of knocks business

[AerRyan]

Will depend on what the ratio is for the passengers originating here and the passengers originating from the UK. Pax from the UK will be down but pax going from Ireland to the UK will increase.

[iwak]

Was at knock Last Tuesday and I counted 65 come off the Edinburgh and 71 go out ! I know it's just after Xmas but obviously there is demand for the route and it's on sale 6 weekly again for next summer which is good to see.kinocker may be able to enlighten us as to the latest loads on the route.

Aer lingus are bringing back the late evening departure to Lgw for the summer schedule with a midmorning departure time on a sat.I know there was a lot of issues with delays last summer but a lot of people working in London found the 6pm departure great .

[Dreamliner_01]

Yes great to see with Flybe - notice also Birmingham going daily from June - overall looks like Knock have maintained their network which is positive when you see what's happening in Derry and the Ryanair cuts at Shannon on Paris, Munich and to lesser extent Manchester - hopefully if have good strong year in 2017 will augur well for 2018 expansion

[Kinocker]

Sorry, I haven't been on the Edinburgh flight for the last few weeks, but it was going strong on the days I used it (usually Fridays and Mondays) up to October.

The overall passenger numbers for 2016 were around 734,000. That's 30,000 more than the previous record year (2014) and around 45,000 more than 2015. Very impressive as there weren't many new routes.

[AerRyan]

No new routes you mean.

Most of the increase is due to new routes operating the full year as opposed to just a half year.

Also, Paris and Munich? Hah.

[Dreamliner_01]

Edinburgh didn't operate in 2015 so a new service in 2016 - likewise Birmingham ended March 15 so again new service in 2016 - obviously these routes operated before but - Costa dorada a new charter service for 2016 also which hadn't operated in 2015

Your point on Paris and Munich is exactly ?

[AerRyan]

Apologies, confusion on my part. No new routes this year, last year there was.

[Kinocker]

Just looking through some passenger stats there - it's been a very decent start to 2017 at Knock. The airport has posted the highest % increase of the four main airports in the country in each of the first four months of the year and each month was a record for that month at the airport. There isn't much happening in the way of new routes, so the loads on existing services must be well up.

They're 18000 up on last year to the end of April (and last year was a record year), so even a breakeven year from here would see the annual numbers surpass 750k for the first time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News/KLM-flights-from-the-city-to-go-double-Dutch-13022017.htm

I've never understood why Knock hasn't managed to secure a service to a hub airport similar to the KLM service from Inverness to Amsterdam, which seems to be surviving and growing despite that airport offering onward connections via Heathrow also. Inverness and Knock would be similar airports in a lot of ways - they serve relatively remote areas and achieve similar passenger numbers so you would think a similar operation could be very successful at Knock. The point to point UK and sun routes are well served at this stage so it would seem a logical next step for the airport.

[CONAIR11]

Inverness and alot of East coast airport in the UK have a KLM service. All to do with the rigs in the North Sea. Not a good comparison for Knock.

[AerRyan]

Also the exceptionally low population around Knock hinders that significantly.

Shannon's just down the road for most people (and others Dublin is just up the road) who use Knock airport, so the US and middle aren't too far away, compared to Inverness and many parts of England which are quite isolated. For example, Newcastle airport which serves the Tyne and Wear metro area, has a population of 1.12million, has no flights to the US (other than the odd charter).

[iwak]

Figures will be better as edi and bhx didn't start till end of march . Accounting for this there is still growth coming from existing routes .

Kinocker have you been on the edi route lately ? How are loads?

[EI-BUD]

Knock - Ireland West (NOC),Republic Of Ireland

Edinburgh (EDI),Great Britain

All directions
0 - 2016 Jan
0 - 2016 Feb
349 - 2016 Mar
1,582 - 2016 Apr
2,359 - 2016 May
2,090 - 2016 Jun
2,714 - 2016 Jul
2,758 - 2016 Aug
2,219 - 2016 Sept
2,063 - 2016 Oct
1,478 - 2016 Nov
1,884 - 2016 Dec
1,218 - 2017 Jan
1,180 - 2017 Feb

IWAK; above is extract from Irish CSO database....

EI-BUD