IRELAND WEST AIRPORT KNOCK

[Mayfly1]

Ya would agree good to see Knock sun routes expanding, it's the logical place for more international routes to develop from, especially into Germany and France. Rumour has it the guys there are close to getting direct European connectivity, would be great not having to travel from Dublin all the time..

[sawtooth]

By direct do you mean a hub link or more FR routes? CDG, FCO, MUN have been mentioned before. Definitely demand from business community for good hub connection if timings are good, current LGW setup isn't much use for connections.

But I think FR NRN/BVA look most likely judging by FRs history and SNN/KIR routes, and they might finally based an aircraft. At the FR press conference yesterday MOL said FR had been inundated with offers from european airports, and with the slowdown in aircraft deliveries competition must be is fierce for small airports.

[airnoc]

Flybe have been operating a return flight on Sundays on Sumburgh - Knock Ireland West- Sumburgh (Shetland Islands) Its come in on Saturday, but it takes off on Sunday morning. Is it a weekly flight to sumburgh. Its showing on both arr/dep board in both airport,
orwhere can i booked these flights?

[CabinCrewe]

As previously stated...you cant book them

[Jamie2k9]

Ireland West Knock wil not get flights to Paris BVA as FR are increasing the route for their SNN base to 4 weekly from 30 Oct compaied with the current 3 weekly flights.

For summer 2011 Knock may get Malaga as it is not operating for winter 2010/11 from SNN so FR may of cut the route of it could be seasonal.

Knock winter flights to East Midlands, Brostil have both been reduced and I think aer Lingus reduced ther LGW as they are under pressuer with FR flights as FR will have 7 weekly flights to Luton and 7 to Standsted.

[Fly_bill]

Could see AGP going very well during winter from NOC or during summer 2011. hard for charters to compete now with Ryanair throwing on extra capacity on sun routes at low prices. BRS and EMA at same frequency for winter havent been reduced, EI reducing to 4/week think more to do with managing network more carefully than anything else as think loads have been fairly good but winter is always a challenge. it looks like EDI is being pulled from SNN for the winter anyone know anything about this, may be moving it to NOC??

[airnoc]

Hi Travel from Ire West Knock to Faro in mid july. Full loads both way and ontime as well.
Malaga would be nice for 2011 and maybe a french or germany route as well as i hear there maybe news on some of these before to long

[Jamie2k9]

I don't think that Ryanair will launch a German route as Ryanair are not happy with the German travel tax.


EDI operates from GWY so if Ryanair were to do the route it would only be twice or three weekly. It is been dropped from SNN and its not the type of route to go seasonal.

AGP will more than lightly stay at SNN next summer as Ryanair have to meet a set amount of passengers and people from Limerick city would not travel to Knock. They would go by Cork Airport. Knock may get it as well but I wouldn't think so. When GWY had AGP they didn't do that well. A lot more people traveled from Waterford on therm. Aer Arann and considering resuming AGP. FAO and mabye Palma. Not sure if they will go from GWY but when all routes went from Waterford they did a lot better than GWY. So I don't think GWY will get them.

[iwak]

I think it would be a safe enough bet to expect a malaga flight next year.Fao/alc and reus have been a huge success this year.Faro was 4 weekly for july and august and alicante was increased to three weekly.

On the uk front I would expect fr to introduce Edi before too long and especially since they have axed Shannon.However for it to work they would need say a mon/fri/sun schedule so people could have a weekend break.A tues/thurs/sat just wouldnt work.

I see Bristol is 3 per week for winter(tues/thurs/sat) Ema back to 3 per week from 4 last year.

Can anybody explain why Fr put Ltn to 4 per week for this summer schedule its always been a well supported route?

[EI-BUD]

When GWY had AGP they didn't do that well

Jamie2k9

I think yeah Aer Arann didnt do too well but when Euromanx did it with 146 prior to that it did well with good loads being attracted. Cant comment on yield but my understanding is that Euromanx did well on the sun routes it was the sheer loss from LCY GWY operation that put a spanner in the works!

Personally, Aer Arann could do well if they got smarter at marketing. They need to target their market appropriately. GWY should be fit to sustain season sun routes independently of what Knock or Shannon are doing. (sorry getting away from the thread topic)

EI-BUD

[Jamie2k9]

2008 figures
GWY - AGP
May - June - July - Aug - Sep - Oct - Total
315 - 282 - 341 - 369 - 368 - 55 - 1739

WAT - AGP
May - June - July - August - Sept - Oct - Total
670 - 907 - 1141 - 1033 - 1001 - 115 - 4867

A big difference.

GWY and Knock couldn't both have EDI.

Aer Arann operate it around 5 weekly from GWY

Ryanair wouldn't be able to fill 189 seats three times a week. It a total of 567 weekly seats. Aer Arann have around 250 seats on the route.

Is there a market for 817 seats per week on EDI flights.

Knock also had Glasgow with BmiBaby. Was there any reason for this been axed.

[sawtooth]

"GWY and Knock couldn't both have EDI"
Never stopped FR before, if it suits them to say they moved EDI from SNN to NOC because of costs then competing with RE is no different at NOC than SNN, both are 1 hour from GWY. RE numbers have been falling on the GWY route, I think FR can draw in the numbers if timed well, they seem to manage on BRS/EMA/LBA/LPL.

AGP/ACE look possible next year, I heard the ACE charters were all sold out early this year. It would be dangerous for NOC if FR clear all the charters out though.

[airnoc]

Strategic Airlines EF825 from lourdes to Ire west Knock showing on arrivals board as landing @ 16 49pm and dept @ 17 39 pm but on R.T.E aertel dulin arrivals showing not arriving un til 6 55 am tomorrow morning so where is the flight in the mean time?

[airnoc]

Hi Ireland West Airport Knock is about to change all of that next Friday when it hosts Europe’s first ever airport open evening. What idea of this is it more flight to europe going announce

[fullrich]

Strategic Airlines EF825 from lourdes to Ire west Knock showing on arrivals board as landing @ 16 49pm and dept @ 17 39 pm but on R.T.E aertel dulin arrivals showing not arriving un til 6 55 am tomorrow morning so where is the flight in the mean time?

Well where is it going at 1739?. Aircraft do position empty from time to time you know.

[airnoc]

Just looking at the arrival & departure board for Ire west Knock and its showing 28 busiest movement for tomorrow.
Is this there day to date and also are they on target fot the busiest month todate? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/infopop/icons/icon14.gif

[cuthere]

I count 24 (my Aunt's flying from there tomorrow).

Whether it's their busiest day or not..... can't be far off (at least since the beginning of the downturn).

Impressive stuff in the current climate.

[Jamie2k9]

No there is 28 arrivals/departures tomorrow. there has never been 4 flights to Lourdes in on day from the airport. It looks to be the busiest day so far.

[sam dilly]

is that plus your Aunt, if so is she on a broomstick ?:}
or is she a lucky Lady on The Titan 767, that Stelios hates so much, and all others love, which is doing two Lourdes flights.
good day for the spotters.

[cuthere]

I take it the broomstick reference is for my benefit Sam?

Not sure it was entirely necessary (or relevant to anything).

Cheers!

[airnoc]

Flew with The Titan 767 from lde to noc in 2008 nices flight ever were 1000 ft in the air watching the sun set and i though we were still on ground getting for take off.

[Fly_bill]

I think if FR did EDI Mon, WEd, Fri it would kill the Galway route as has proven before Aer Arann cant compete with the jet access and the fares on offer from Ryanair, €0 one way versus an average of €49 one way proven in the past that when FR launces a new route from NOC or SNN Galway loses one examples include BRS Galway lost Cardiff. Especially given Aer Aranns current difficulties very hard for Galway to compete with FR

[EI-BUD]

Fly_bill
This has been the exact problem for Aer Arann

They claim to be in difficulties now as a result of volcanic ash but reality is that losses have been mounting for last couple of years and I would say it all started to sour when Ryanair challenged them head on between Dublin and Cork, they waged a long battle in which neither made any money I would imagine Aer Arann lost stacks.

Love them or hate them, but Ryanair has been very predatory towards Aer Arann and at some point it was a relentless string of attempts by Ryanair to wipe them out.
Cork - Dublin
Dublin - Kerry (gaining PSO on reduced grant)(also pitching PSOs lower €)

When Gill Air went bust Aer Arann were to commence Dublin Newcastle but Ryanair jumped in instantly.

Many routes ex Galway by Aer Arann were targeted by Ryanair at Shannon (also challenged Aer Arann services ex Cork) including from memory.... Edinburgh, Luton, Leeds/Bradford, Liverpool (RE did GWY LPL at some point?), Bristol. Ryanair even did Dublin Shannon which may arguably been some challenge to Dublin Kerry and Dublin Galway.

Moreover, I feel a combination of the Challenge by Ryanair on DUB ORK & Loss of KIR route (70% of problem), General downturn in domestic flying in Ireland (20% of their problems and finally the volcanic ash issue.

It is ironic that when Ryanair were on their knees in the early 90s/kate 80s when they went to the minister for transport, they were given a life line by him that gave them protection from Aer Lingus by giving exclusivity on Dublin to LPL, MUC & STN.

Shame the same dispensations couldnt have been made for RE in the past.


EI-BUD

[airnoc]

Hi What happen to bmibaby flight to man that it is so late again leaving noc?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/infopop/icons/icon11.gif

[Jamie2k9]

The aircraft had a tecional problem.

[iwhak]

J2K9......like a lot of your recent ramblings, and lack of attention to detail, I assume you mean the aircraft had a technical problem :ok:

[Jamie2k9]

Thats what my post said.

[sawtooth]

I found it very difficult to get parking at the airport on two occasions this month with only overflow space due to holiday parking. The new departure terminal area was left with poor land-side access for the last 2 years after opening due to planning objections by the same appellants who delayed the previous projects.

This will hopefully improve as An Bord Pleanála last week granted approval for the development which will include new access roundabout/road with more convenient terminal set-down and bus parking, longterm car-parking with covered walkway access, dedicated car hire compounds, an extension to the fire station for air-side equipment storage and landscaping.

This is would complete the first part of the master plan developed by Scott Wilson design group, presumably subject to current funding reality. It should also free up the area required for the delayed apron extension.

[airnoc]

Hi Any word on winter sun flights from noc this winter?
what the story on skiing flights this winter?

[Jamie2k9]

As of yet there are no winter sun or ski flights.

Flights to Faro next summer are to be reduced from a A320 to a B733. That's 32 seats less every week but FR will most lightly increase flights.

[sawtooth]

Not the most reliable source but Wikipedia update shows Europe Airpost operating NOC-FAO charter from May 2011 with a 733. This was operated by Monarch this year.

Good to see the charters holding up given FR now operating 4x weekly and the loss of several travel agents. No winter sun/ski charter from NOC this year though.

[Jamie2k9]

Not the most reliable source but Wikipedia update shows Europe Airpost operating NOC-FAO charter from May 2011 with a 733. This was operated by Monarch this year.

Europe Airpost will be operating it next year as they have smaller a/c than MOM.

[Fly_bill]

Ya seen that MON done well yo maintain 90% lf on FAO despite 4 week service with ryanair to inevitable they would reduce to smaller aircraft ti maximise yield, no winter sun yet from knock but ive heard rumours so watch this space

[iwak]

Anybody have any idea as to new routes for noc for summer 2011.I personally would hope for malaga and edinburgh from ryanair. As I have said before a 3/4 weekly from edi would definitely work and passenger numbers are growing on the galway edi route all beit with an edi snn route on the doorstep.

Consideing the success of last summers fr continental routes I think a 3weekly to malaga would be well supported.I see the dublin flight is cancelled a lot lately I presume pax numbers are pretty poor like the rest of the pso routes these days.:{

[Jamie2k9]

Topflight are to start package hoildays to Italy from Knock.
Flights between Knock - Verona
From 4 June - 20 August.

[iwak]

Great news .I think it is cityjet who normally operates this route for topflight .My bets are still on edinburgh and Malaga and possibly lanzarote if Ryanair announce it as a base according to a previous post for summer 2011. Anybody know if sunway are returning with a lanzarote charter this year.

[sawtooth]

SNN-EDI was dropped last month, and NOC was rumoured but the UK route cuts after the travel tax may have held back route announcements. Irish travel tax may be dropped soon so that should lead to more FR routes.

[Fly_bill]

Sunway confirmed for ACE next year - on sale on their website

[Jamie2k9]

Anybody know if sunway are returning with a lanzarote charter this year.

Yes bookable now. Air Europa will operate it on Saturdays.

[sawtooth]

Apron, taxiway and access road resurfacing underway at the moment. Pax being bussed from apron B. Shame the apron hasn't been extended, it could become a pressure point very quickly if there were to be route growth in the future.

[airnoc]

Hi P.S.O. to and from dublin cancel a lot latley.
I take it that it is poor pax number or is it weather related?
Was to fly to day and cancel againhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/boohoo.gif

[sawtooth]

RE provide a poor PSO service IMO. I stopped booking them couple of years ago after a line of random cancellations at NOC, DUB, LTN & GWY. Weather diversions are understandable but I suspect the PSO is bottom of their priorates when issues arise elsewhere in their commercial network, there's no accountability or records published as far as I know and they get PSO subsidy either way (eh hello minister, this is taxpayers money).

Very frustrating missing business meetings or connecting flights while sitting at the gate on a beautiful clear morning and being told the aircraft was never sent "due to adverse weather, technical issues, late aircraft positioning".

On the numbers I haven't flown for a while and they aren't published but I'd imagine Irish Rails new early-bird Westport - Dublin service is a more reliable option for many pax.

[Keyvon]

Knock is gaining 3 new Ryanair routes to the Canary Islands : Tenerife, Gran Canaria and Lanzarote.
At present, only Lanzarote is linked with Knock through a summer charter operated for Sunway.

[Kavs8]

good news for Knock, can only get better for them hopefully a AGP - FR link will be developed for Summer 11.

[Jamie2k9]

Does anybody know if Ryanair add the €10 airport fee to bookings made or do you pay it at Check-in.

Good to see FR expand at Knock but Alicante and Reus will see a drop in passenger numbers with the new routes to LPS, TFS and ACE. I can't see Knock being able to sustain 6 sun routes. If LDY couldn't keep both ALC and FAO even though ALC was around 80% pas what hope has Knock.

[Kavs8]

no airline includes an APD in booking transactions except RE with that poxy WAT development fee!

[sawtooth]

Jamie2k9 "I can't see Knock being able to sustain 6 sun routes."

I see where you are coming from but then why have they just made NOC - REU/ALC bookable with increased frequency 4x weekly? Those routes also competed with the NOC charters to ACE/FAO last year and had high load-factor all the same, so they seem to be building on that growth and have a good tourism deal from the Canaries authority as well. Also have to factor in reduced capacity at DUB/SNN.

If anything will suffer it's the charters who are down to 733 on FAO/ACE from A321 on some routes in the past. Back in 2006/7 the airport had lots more sun destinations BOJ, HER, PMI, CDZ, AGP.

[Kavs8]

ALC & REU are 3 x weekly each first off. Also i have to agree with Jamie2k9 their diluting the market too much in my view, everyone needs to get a grip traffic, pax no will decline in 2011 with out the removal of the APD, or airport charges being reduced to zero. If thats done these routes will survive but you'l soon find FR get a bit snappy with NOC managment over the 10€ APD, and we will see once again the kinda relationship on-going at SNN & DUB. Also i cant see how their gonna keep 4 direct services from DUB, ORK, SNN & NOC (The one unlikely to remain) to TFS, LPA & ACE. Never mind charters their dead in the water, NOC leads to learn the lesson that bucket and shuvel routes are no good in this climate and try get proper routes i.e. Paris, Madrid, Rome, Milan, Frankfurt etc.. developed with year-round demand.

[Fly_bill]

In fairness to Ryanair they rarely get these things wrong and couldnt see them putting in the routes if they didnt feel they would work. Ryanair havbe no issue with the €10 Dev fee at knock as its being in place for 20 years and they accept it at this stage, lets face it these types of fees are becoming more and more necessary to sustain regional airports eg Durham tees valley announced intro of one last week. Sun routes tend to yield more money for ryanair as passengers tend to pay that little extra a paris or AMS or DUS would work very well but couldnt see demand for any other city breaks as the demand just isnt there whereas they will come from all over to use the sun routes as was proven last year

[brian_dromey]

Never mind charters their dead in the water, NOC leads to learn the lesson that bucket and shuvel routes are no good in this climate and try get proper routes i.e. Paris, Madrid, Rome, Milan, Frankfurt etc.. developed with year-round demand.
I would argue that the sun routes are the ones that have the demand. Yes it is seasonal, but that is why FR operate these routes, as such. Even DUB struggles to keep more than daily service to MAD, Milan and Rome, yet there are multiple daily flights to the likes of AGP and FAO, with 738, A330 and A321. ORK has no connection to FRA, MAD, MXP or MAD, KIR has HNN but thats about it. This tells it's own story about the demand profile from Ireland. People want the sun holidays, not the city breaks.

[Kinocker]

Great news about the new routes, I think Brian is right, most of the demand at Knock is either family/emigration related travel into the UK or sun routes. I would guess that the longer term success or otherwise of the Barcelona route would have a bearing on whether there is any potential for other city routes.

One other thing I was thinking about though...Knock must be one of the biggest airports in the UK and Ireland not to have a well timed connecting flight through a major European hub (I wouldn't class Dublin as one of these, and the Gatwick flights are largely useless for onward travel). The slot restrictions in Heathrow make that a non-starter, but given the success KLM has had at regional airports all over the UK, should efforts not be made to entice them to Knock to run connecting flights into their long haul network. A morning flight out of Knock, similar to what they operate out of Hull, Norwich, Cardiff, Durham etc. would open up a massive route choice from the airport - and I would guess that the population base would easily exist in the west/north-west to sustain it?

[brian_dromey]

Something like that with a night-stopping/based Fokker 70 could work well. The history of KLM in the UK is actually quite interesting. What today operates to AMS is the remains of AirUK (some of it was sold off to Ryanair as Buzz, other parts were shut down). The crews are mainly UK based and operate four sectors each day. Something like LBA-AMS-MXP-AMS-LBA, for example. KLM is much better known in the UK than in Ireland and they don't even serve Dublin, preferring instead to codeshare with Aer Lingus. SNN with it's connections to LHR, CDG, NYC and BOS is relatively close.

[ryan2000]

It's something that Knock Marketing should talk to them about as they would face no competition. However the yield would have to be good. It would connect Knock to one of the crossroads of the World. The other option would be City Jet to CDG but somehow the connectivity there doesn't suit the Irish Market as much as LHR or SPL. Maybe a based EI plane might Work. NOC AMS NOC LGW NOC with a variety of evening departures to complete the roster.

[Kinocker]

This is an interesting article from a few years back:

Western People - 2003/12/24: Knock airport is flying high as passenger numbers soar (http://archives.tcm.ie/westernpeople/2003/12/24/story17344.asp)

It is easy to forget that as recently as seven years ago the airport was still seen as a white elephant in the bog and had only three scheduled international routes (Stansted, Birmingham and Manchester) in comparison to the 15 that are lined up for next year to date. (I say to date because I am still hopeful of something to Edinburgh - its been rumoured for some time now)

[Mayfly1]

Yes I agree Knock should develop a hub link to one of the major European or UK airports, to do this it will need support of all the regional industries and business people and a strong government backing to convince one of the mainstream airlines to base an aircraft there and start up the route. Look at Shannon it has 3 Heathrow services/daily, half full at best, but secured them on the back of a strong local lobby and government pressure on EI after they moved the base to Belfast. One of these could be relocated out of Knock if there is enough pressure put on EI and regional support.
Also keep watching the EDI space, this airport will secure a scottish route, as there is proven demand on these routes

[bannercounty]

Are you dreaming? I travel this route a few times a week and the load factor in summer was ~90%. in the winter it is averaging 70-85%.

[Angry Rebel]

@Mayfly1

If the pressure you are referring to is political, you can forget it. The days of AL responding to TD pleas is over. Mr Mueller won't be bending to that kind of parish pump carry on.

[sawtooth]

@Mayfly1
If the pressure you are referring to is political, you can forget it. The days of AL responding to TD pleas is over. Mr Mueller won't be bending to that kind of parish pump carry on.

Thankfully the management at Ireland West seem to put their efforts into building the infrastructure and business case for development and have avoided the "we deserve" wailing and crying associated with the Shannon political lobby of late.

But I agree with Mayfly that the support of the business community is important in securing a good hub connection, and research from the many medical and pharmaceutical industries based in the West on the business case would be welcome, I hope the airport are putting effort into this.

I know of one Mayo base multinational who have a travel policy of booking the GWY-LTN service (despite poor road connections) because of the frequency and timings are more suited to business travel and connecting to LHR.

FR schedules rarely suit business commuters and EI LGW isn't the best with the afternoon slot, nor is it a business hub. AMS would offer fantastic opportunities, and I believe there would also be a big market for inbound tourism on such a route if marketed well.

[fivejuliet]

Mayfly1, it won't happen. SNN-LHR averages 80% plus. This information is available on the CAA website. Having one flight would be pretty pointless- you'd need all three for connections purposes- and NOC-LHR would only achieve, half full at best. :rolleyes:

[Kinocker]

The airport management have, I think, always been pragmatic and realistic about what kind of services they can get in. Heathrow on an A320 would be great but just doesn't seem likely at the present time. Something like a based E190 or a Fokker 70 to AMS would be more achievable capacity wise and would be able to benefit from more suitable slot availability at AMS.

I seem to remember Aer Arann running flights fromn GWY to AMS at one point, but I think they were point to point and didn't codeshare or tie in with KLM's operations there, connectivity with other flights would obviously be a must for such a route to succeed.

I wonder will the the tax reduction to €3 bring any more flights to the airport, Ryanair's initial response (perhaps unsurprisingly) suggests that it won't be enough for them to dive head first back into the Irish market but, given their ongoing disputes with the DAA, Knock might be in a position to benefit if they did decide to add any capacity. I would guess that with the development fee firmly in place at the airport, landing charges for Ryanair must be minimal compared to what DUB, SNN and CRK would be looking for.

[fullrich]

Didnt they increase the capacity to A321 last summer. Hardly suggests that laods were low. Dont forget it used to be 4 daily LHR-SNN in the old summer days.

[Jamie2k9]

Concorde Travel will only have 6 flights between Knock - Dubrovnik between May - September.

Although it was Split last year and they went via Dublin it is still a small reduction.

Flights between Knock - Zurich have being dropped for summer 2011. They will now be direct from SNN. Knock airport website says it is returning but it's not.

Irland - Balsam für die Seele | falcontravel.ch (http://www.falcontravel.ch/irland/)

[Mayfly1]

Ya must be looking at different stats the the EI shn Heathrow than I'm looking at! Agree a smaller jet service to a main European hub would work better. Heathrow is so congested at this stage it takes hours to get in and out, not to mention the miles they make you walk in T1 to and from your plane

[EI320]

Ya must be looking at different stats the the EI shn Heathrow than I'm looking at!

So where did you pull those stats from exactly? I'd love to hear more about them.

Heathrow is so congested at this stage it takes hours to get in and out, not to mention the miles they make you walk in T1 to and from your plane

Less of the exaggeration. No one's forcing you to use LHR, so if you don't like, don't use it. Simple as that.

[bannercounty]

MayFly. Love to see your backup stats too. Are they actual flown seats or seats booked I.e. Volcanic Ash less seats actually filled. A F70 would never ever work from Knock especially since AF had an EMB145 from SNN that was 80%+ full with a bigger catchment area. Pity the culprits in SAA persuaded Cityjet to up it to an AVRO which killed the route.

[cuthere]

Jeez....LHR's a big place, but claiming you have to walk "miles" suggests to me you go lost. I happily travel through it and many other UK Airports in less than 30 minutes (and often as a transfer passenger).

Anyway:

The CAA stats for November state 20,028 travelled EGLL to EINN. I'll let you lot work out load factor etc.

Cheers!

[Johnny455]

So where did you pull those stats from exactly? I'd love to hear more about them.


Statistics are available here:

Table: Air Passenger Movement (Number) by Irish Airport, Foreign Airport, Month and Direction (http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Dialog/varval.asp?ma=ctm01&ti=Air+Passenger+Movement+(Number)+by+Irish+Airport,+Foreign +Airport,+Month+and+Direction&path=../Database/Eirestat/Airport%20Pairings/&lang=1)

[Kinocker]

There seems to be something of a wintry blast heading for Mayo, possibility of Knock (and other Irish airports) being closed in the coming days.

Bannercounty that AF flight would have had much more competition at SNN than a F70 would have at Knock, that needs to be factored in as well as catchment area.

[sawtooth]

EDI is bookable at Flybe.com (http://www.Flybe.com).
3 x weekly Q400, hopefully that will grow with positive numbers.

First venture south of the border by Flybe for a few years, other than DUB-SOU/EXT. Good to see another brand coming in.

Flybe also have announced investment by George Soros today and a new strategy to feed AF/KLM codeshare hubs, hopefully this is the beginning of a relationship with NOC that could lead to the previously discussed hub connection, they have the right aircraft mix in the Q400/EMB195/175.

[iwak]

Brilliant.

I knew edinburgh was on the way but thought it was ryanair ,Fantastic to have flybe at noc and will maybe provide the airport with hub access with the new airfrance codeshare deal.

the dh400 makes much more sense than a 737 800 in terms of passenger numbers.

The airport just needs to highlight flybe as much as possible so as to create brand awareness.

Well done to all at knock:ok:

[Fly_bill]

Great news today Europoes leading regional airline expanding out of Knock, the only regional airport in Ireland they have a presence in. Hopefully this the start of a bright future for the airline at Knock, great potential for more routes with the right sized aircraft - a major coup for the airport

[Kinocker]

Absolutely fantastic news - for so many reasons:

1) Connection to Scotland restored, a major gap in the market from Knock filled (and now so much easier for me to get home too!)

2) Perfect sized plane for the route and the correct Scottish airport choice, always thought BMIBaby's Glasgow - Knock effort was the wrong sized plane into the wrong Scottish airport.

3) Another new airline, 5 scheduled airlines from Knock at the same time is some going, two of them have no other ROI presence outside of Dublin.

4) Potential for more flybe routes if this works out, 78 seater Q400s bring routes into play that FR and WWs planes are just to large for.

5) Seventeen scheduled routes now bookable from the airport. SEVENTEEN!!!

6) That desperately needed hub connection, I've spoken about it a lot on here recently, this isn't it but it has to be marketed to flybe now as part of any future expansion.

As an aside, I recently flew AF from LAX to GLA connecting from CDG up to Glasgow with flybe on a Q400, single ticket, bags checked straight through from LA. It was the first day of their new codeshare arrangement and it wasn't exactly seemless but teething problems aside it got me where I wanted to go. I'd love to be able to do a similar journey to/from Knock at some point in the future. The Ireland West website even mentions the AF codeshare so its obviously something they're looking at seriously.

The three bucket and spade routes last week were nice, but this has so much more potential, very exciting times at Knock.

:ok:

[iwak]

I personally think knock has the uk well covered now apart from the availability of a day return to london. Anybody think that there are other airports that could be served that would be well supported.

I still think that flybe has been a majour coup for the airport just wish it was a tues /fri/sun/ service for weekend breakers. Anyway that may come in time.:D

[ryan2000]

Management should definetely pursue the connectivity to a hub option. NOC is now handling about 60 per cent of Shannons non US and transit traffic so in the basis that SNN can support 3 320's per day to LHR, a daily flight from
NOC to s major hub should be feasible.

[Kinocker]

The website has been updated with the four new routes and has a finished look to it, so I suspect thats the route network finalised for next year.

Had a look through flybe's destination list there for possible future expansion if they take a liking to Knock. As said above there is not much room or need for expansion to British airports, the UK is fairly well covered now. Maybe Cardiff or Newcastle might be the types of routes that would never work on a 738 but might have a chance with a smaller airplane maybe 3 days a week. Even that might be a stretch though.

Further abroad Paris CDG and Amsterdam would be the obvious ones. Maybe a flight to a central European airport might work for flybe or Ryanair, Kerry seem to have had some success with Hahn, which is in the middle of nowhere but at the same time not too far from a lot of population centres.

Meanwhile, have Aer Arann just decided not to bother with the Dublin PSO route anymore or something - its cancelled yet again today and seems to have been all week? I posted on the Aer Arann thread as well, if they're being well funded by the Irish Government what excuse do they have not to operate the flight?

[sawtooth]

I personally think knock has the uk well covered now apart from the availability of a day return to london. Anybody think that there are other airports that could be served that would be well supported.

Definitely a need for day return frequency to LON. And I think they are losing out on a lot of discretionary travel in the weekend market with the lack of a late Friday service.

Seventeen scheduled routes now bookable from the airport. SEVENTEEN!!!

And 26 including the charter flights. Very good progress made maintaining and adding new routes at NOC this year, with economy (hopefully) stabalising in 2011 they can build on it.

Were all these routes operating on 2007 numbers they would be hitting the 1m pax target. But the snow and ash in Spring 2010, combined with little or no marketing, and frequencies/pax numbers down on some routes, they will probably be similar to last year overall.

FR EMA, LBA and LPL have shown the most growth but eating away at WW BHX, MAN.

[Roll to the end]

It's certainly great news with the entrance of Flybe, especially with the expected departure of Aer Arann ( whom at the moment seemed to not have shown up at the airport for a month):ok:
It would be great for Flybe or anyone to open up a hub connection AMS maybe I seem to remember before open skies that a LHR flight was very close to getting off the ground. I always hope LHR will be on the boards and I still remain confident that EI will step in, they're Gatwick seems steady. Did think with EIR other routes would open, but it seems we look at flybe and ryanair for growth now, perhaps a Jersey flight maybe near
The baby seems content where they are did feel in the past they had they're chance to expand at knock to mainland europe.

So I guess the questoin is what next for NOC, they clearly need to work on timings and timetables, a day return to LON is essential. I remain hopeful for charters at the airport too, perhaps its time to look towards greece and turkey as possible destinations with FR circling.
It would be great to see a continental route to prague or somewhere like that, is it strange that Knock of all places doesn't have a flight to Rome?

Management seem to have a head on they're shoulder and development of infrastructure continues there, and staff are generally efficient, maybe a cargo link is needed?


So I guess the questoin is what next for NOC, they clearly need to work on timings and timetables, a day return to LON is essential. I remain hopeful for charters at the airport too, perhaps its time to look towards greece and turkey as possible destinations with FR circling.
It would be great to see a continental route to prague or somewhere like that, is it strange that Knock of all places doesn't have a flight to Rome?

Management seem to have a head on they're shoulder and development of infractucture continues there, and staff are generally efficent, maybe a cargo link is needed?:O

[airnoc]

HI What are numbers like for 2010 with the new routes to the sun and recesson?:ok:
Happy new year to one and allhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

[Kinocker]

I guess the numbers for all the Irish airports will be out in the next few weeks, but given that probably every airport in the country is looking at a drop this year they might not be rushing the info out into the public domain first thing on Monday morning.

For Knock I would guess there will be another drop this year, anything under a 5% reduction would be very good going given the year its been with the weather, the volcano, the economy and Aer Arann not bothering to turn up most days. Perhaps some hope of an improvement next year with the new routes, but it is only 6 new flights a week and the likely loss of the Dublin route at some point will have an effect. There seem to be fewer charters year on year also.

On the subject of charters, does anyone have any information on the Loganair Sumburgh flights? I understand they relate to the Corrib Gas project, but I know nothing else of them other than that.

[sawtooth]

I guess the numbers for all the Irish airports will be out in the next few weeks, but given that probably every airport in the country is looking at a drop this year they might not be rushing the info out into the public domain first thing on Monday morning.

Based on figures published by DOT here's a graph of the last 5 years figures for the regional airports. 2010 figures aren't final as Nov/Dec numbers weren't available for all so estimated from monthly average, but give a reasonably indication in most cases.

Generally looks like continued decline across the board, but hopefully bottoming out in 2010. KIR gained NRN/MAN routes in 2010 which give it a numbers lift, though some FR routes may not return this year. NOC figures much the same as 2009 as lower loads/frequencies offset new route gains, but should see growth this year with 4 new routes starting the Spring.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/webstuff1/ForumST/regional_graph.jpg

Estimated final figures
Sligo 21,600
Donegal 48,700
Waterford 94,000
Galway 161,000
Derry 335,000
Kerry 416,000
Ireland West 606,000

[Kinocker]

That's interesting sawtooth, thanks for the info, if those figures for November and December have held up then Knock will have gone exceptionally close to matching last years passenger numbers (607,005 according to their website).

I would argue that to be an excellent performance given the year its been, with Cork losing a quarter of its passengers in the last two years and Shannon and Galway both losing more than 40% in the same period, Knock's passenger reduction in the same period would be less than four percent with potential for a small increase with the new routes in 2011.

[sawtooth]

I was expecting a drop also given lower loads on UK routes, PSO fall off and weather events in 2010. But they did add new LBA, FAO & REU routes. One new route can make a big difference to a small airports figures. If the UK market recovers they should see healthy growth in 2011.

While I'm at the back of the envelope estimations I'd guess they have about 1.2M scheduled seat capacity in and out of NOC this year.

[Cyrano]

While I'm at the back of the envelope estimations I'd guess they have about 1.2M scheduled seat capacity in and out of NOC this year.

That seems high - it would give an overall load factor of about 50% which is low for an LCC-dominated airport.

So I went and looked. According to the jolly useful Capstats (http://www.capstats.com/) (sorry - subscription required), in 2010 there were 2935 scheduled departures from NOC and a total of 475,343 outbound seats.

That's 950,000 seats in total, or an overall load factor (assuming all the passengers are scheduled) of 62%, which smells a bit better (although still on the low side).

C.

[sawtooth]

I'd looked at 2011 frequencies and 4 new routes for that figure, charters would also add to that. But thanks for the 2010 info sounds about right.

Not staggering load average but given the economic situation and the poor timings of many of the LCC flights not too bad. Looking at it another way it shows the figures the airport should be achieving with better frequencies and loads in the future.

[Kinocker]

60% load factors are a bit on the low side alright, I had thought it would be somewhat higher than that. I wonder if having flights to Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds/Bradford is a bit of overcapacity to that part of the UK? I would have thought that the three daily return flights during the summer to London airports would have been about right, but perhaps not. Sometimes it seems with Ryanair that when they open a new base somewhere they stick in a flight to Knock in the middle of the day to fill a schedule gap because they feel they can't lose with the low airport charges etc. Examples of this would include LBA and more recently the three new Canary Island bases.

Certainly the flight timings in and out of the airport don't help, next to nothing early morning and late evening and then almost busier in the middle of the day than Shannon or Cork, maybe sometime an airline will choose to base an aircraft which would change all that. Ryanair have enough flights to and from the airport in the summer months to base two in theory.

I could well imagine the daily RE flight to and from Dublin carrying single digit numbers quite often, maybe that contributes a lot to spare capacity?

[Jamie2k9]

The Knock - Leeds passenger numbers between June - October.

2010. Left end of March and April out as it had only began.

May -
Availible seats both ways = 4914
Booked Seats = 1566
Empty Seats = 3348

June -
Availible seats both ways = 4914
Booked Seats = 2140
Empty Seats = 2774

July -
Availible seats both ways = 5292
Booked Seats = 2625
Empty Seats = 2667

August -
Availible seats both ways = 4536
Booked Seats = 3503
Empty Seats = 1033

September -
Availible seats both ways = 4914
Booked Seats = 2496
Empty Seats = 2418

October -
Availible seats both ways = 4914
Booked Seats = 2581
Empty Seats = 2333

Personally I think the route is a wast of time and money for FR and FR also tried it from SNN and it was dropped.

[sawtooth]

I wonder if having flights to Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds/Bradford is a bit of overcapacity to that part of the UK?

MME failed but there is still a large West of Ireland community in the NE region, so some demand is there and the numbers on LBA are better than BRS started with despite the recession. The aircraft is too large, WW 733 is closer to the mark, or even BEs ERJ/Q400.

But I'd imagine FRs LBA strategy is as much about sqeezing WW (their only remaining UK competition in Irish market outside DUB). WW were carrying 8k per month 2x daily MAN and BHX in summer a few years back. Those numbers are half that now with FR LPL doing very well, EMA similarly eroding BHX traffic.

On the other hand FR bring in the numbers and stimulate traffic with low fares where higher margin airlines may never have bothered.

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair have improved STN flight times for 2011.
Monday - depart 08:10
Tuesday - depart 08:10
Wednesday - depart 08:50
Thursday - depart 16:45
Firday - depart 10:05
Saturday - depart 08:25
Sunday - depart 16:45

[Kinocker]

Wow - those are some very early times for Knock, arrivals from London to the airport at 7:45am are not common. I wonder if this is in any way to do with the new EI Shannon - Gatwick route, on first glance you'd think it had nothing to do with it but weren't Shannon or Aer Lingus boasting yesterday about how it would be the only early morning arrival to the West of Ireland from London. I don't know if that would be relevant to this decision or not?

[Jamie2k9]

Ryanair had early arrivals at around that time on the STN route before and they had Liverpool arrivals at 7:30 at one stage.

[Kinocker]

I see that bookings can now be made to Paris CDG, Southampton, Exeter, Cardiff, Manchester, Kirkwall and Sumburgh from Knock on the flybe website. All via Edinburgh obviously. I don't think its possible to connect directly onto the Air France network at CDG yet though.

I guess the more options they provide, the more chance the Edinburgh route has of being a success. I'd say that Sumburgh connection might actually generate a bit of oil and gas related business for flybe through Knock to go with their Loganair charter flights.

[Fly_bill]

This is great news as opens up even more niche destinations such as Exeter and Cardiff which should help generate some extra seats each week. The CDG one is a big one and although its a connecting flight it offers people in the West and North West and even the Midlands the option to utilise the convenience of Knock as opposed to travlling to Dublin or Shannon.....should go well and presents good possibilities for the future

[Jamie2k9]

Think people would prefer to go direct from SNN or DUB as it makes the route way longer to go via EDI and probably more expensive.

[sawtooth]

If you look at the timings they aren't that attractive, 5 hours the shortest CDG on a Tue, and via EDI is a long routing. But good to see an airline offering connections all the same.

[Kinocker]

Unfortunately Edinburgh isn't a good geographical midpoint for those destinations so I doubt they will be expecting to pick up too many passengers on connections via Knock for now.

The possibility of going to Cardiff or Exeter via Edinburgh is unlikely to be too enticing when there are already direct flights to Bristol. CDG might have worked via Edinburgh but without connections to the AF network the new direct SNN route will be preferable to most.

Obviously Edinburgh is better positioned for connections to Kirkwall and Sumburgh but these are real niche markets that will generate very small passenger traffic. As I mentioned offshore oil and gas related business was probably behind flybe's thinking here.

But at least it shows that the airline are interested in incorporating Knock into their network and if a future direct flight was to be operated to somewhere like Cardiff it might be more suited to onward connection to airports on the UK south coast and European destinations such as CDG.

EDIT: flybe must be still in the process of updating their website, Southampton has now been added to the list as well. Wonder will there be any more, they do fly to a good few other destinations from Edinburgh.

[Kinocker]

So the end of PSO funding for Knock has been confirmed for July and the Dubln route will be getting the chop. It is therefore more important than ever that a route creating better connections to overseas destinations is sought by the airport to prevent it from becoming solely a low cost airline destination.

I would add though that the loss of the PSO at Sligo and Galway airports is likely to have a far greater effect on those airports than its loss at Knock.

You would feel that this comment from Noel Dempsey spells the death knell for the smaller regional airports.

"Overall, I believe that the combination of an improved surface transport network together with a more consolidated air service network to regional airports, along with the State Airports at Cork, Shannon and Dublin, provides the necessary transport access to underpin Ireland's sustainable development."


Although Knock isn't mentioned, I would consider it to be a very different case to the other regional airports.

[EI-BUD]

Sad for Knock re the end of the PSO, however, does anyone know what the actual passenger numbers are per month on this route? Ball park figures?

In addition, I read here last year that the average boarding was 11 passenger per flight on that route, one would wonder at that rate, exactly how many people would be taking advantage of connections at Dublin each day?

EI-BUD

[sawtooth]

Well with 24 routes and 4 other airlines now, the loss of DUB PSO is a small part of overall pax figures at NOC, though a loss none the less.

But it was a hub feeder to DUB (when RE bothered to operate) and useful for business travel and connections. It may have impact on the cost of operating early morning and late evening handling and ATC.

[840]

Difficulties for Galway and Sligo could be to Knock's advantage. Although what is to be gained from Sligo may be open to question.

[Kinocker]

The airport's response to the PSO cull has been posted on their website

Ireland West Airport Knock (http://www.irelandwestairport.com/utility/news_details.aspx?id=254)

Interesting comment at the bottom of the response:

"Government support for the creation of an international hub connection to destinations such as Heathrow or Paris Charles de Gaulle would also greatly enhance the airports contribution to regional economic growth."

Maybe if Inda gets in he might sort it!



In other news, Norwich and Birmingham have been added to the list of bookable connections via Edinburgh with flybe.

[airnoc]

Hi. What has happen to new charter flight to Riva Lake Garda no time table yet on topflight web pagehttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif.

Any word on forwarding booking for the Edinburg flight starting in april thank you in advancehttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

[Jamie2k9]

There is a timetable availiible. Departs Verona at 13:30 - Departs Knock at 16:00. I think it will be operated by Mistral Air with a B734 or Europe Airpost with a B733.

[Kinocker]

I see that the airport has quietly published its passenger numbers for 2010.

589,180 passengers used the airport last year, a drop of just under 3% from 2009 and a drop of 6.5% from the record year in 2008. It was the fourth busiest ever year at the airport after 2006, 2008 and 2009.

Not bad going considering a number of factors would have had an adverse impact on passenger figures at all airports in this part of the world last year. Despite the upcoming loss of the Dublin route in July, I'd be confident that the airport will see an increase in passenger numbers next year with the four new scheduled routes, maybe not to 2008 levels but possibly not too far off them.

[Kinocker]

Joe Gilmore has predicted that passenger numbers will go above 650,000 for the first time ever this year at Knock.

Commenting on the year ahead, Joe Gilmore, Managing Director, Ireland West Airport Knock said “2011 is expected to be the busiest year on record at Ireland West Knock, despite the current economic downturn, the airport will hope to serve over 650,000 passengers which reflects the increasing preference amongst passengers to fly direct to and from our region.

I suppose that would be dependent on all routes other then Dublin being a success and lasting the year but if the economy picks up any bit at all its an achievable target. Makes you wonder what could be achieved if and when the national economy gets back on its feet. I wonder would a Mayo Taoiseach result in any additional government investment in the airport?

[Jack1985]

Jamie2k9, can i ask where you got this confidential information? because its acctually illegal to list or even display expected passenger numbers about any Departing Irish flights. Airports are only given the passenger figures after the flight departs on the day it has departed.

[cuthere]

FR 737-800s carry 189 passengers. FR booking engine allows a party of up to 25 to book in one visit.

If J2K9 was on the booking engine and the maximum number of seats he could price for the flight is 20, it must mean the other 169 are sold.

I reckon it's as simple as that.

[FR-]

I think all of us who work for fr can find out flight loads from the crew room or even customer service desks, but we shouldnt be posting information like that. Maybe say the loads look good ;)

fr-

[NorthernCounties]

Jamie2k9, can i ask where you got this confidential information? because its acctually[sic] illegal to list or even display expected passenger numbers about any Departing Irish flights. Airports are only given the passenger figures after the flight departs on the day it has departed.

I know load factors on French bound flights this evening and tomorrow from Dublin are going to have very high load factors... hope I don't get arrested!:rolleyes:

[Jack1985]

FR 737-800s carry 189 passengers. FR booking engine allows a party of up to 25 to book in one visit.

If J2K9 was on the booking engine and the maximum number of seats he could price for the flight is 20, it must mean the other 169 are sold.

I reckon it's as simple as that.

Hopefully.

I think all of us who work for fr can find out flight loads from the crew room or even customer service desks, but we shouldnt be posting information like that. Maybe say the loads look good http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif

fr-

My point exactly.

I know load factors on French bound flights this evening and tomorrow from Dublin are going to have very high load factors... hope I don't get arrested!:rolleyes:

Thats fine for you to personnally know, but you didnt go ahead and publish the figures on a rumour forum did you? im just saying that kind of information is confidential and should not be published until a flight has left its origin airport & arrived at its departure airport.

[Angry Rebel]

Jack1985, under what legislation is it illegal to do so?

[Jack1985]

Each airline has its own preferences regarding the release of information, i no for certain that all airlines operating to/from Cork, do not release any passenger figures until after the flight has arrived @ the Destination Airport, the's figures are then made available to the public & OCC as soon as the flight is detected arrived at its destination airport, by CFMU - EuroControl.

As for what law it falls under im not sure, but i think it may be under the passenger manifests act , i think that's available in the IAA Navigation Acts & Law Book.

[Airbus321-200]

Is this the IRELAND WEST AIRPORT KNOCK thread or the LEGALITIES OF PAX INFOMATION thread???

I haven't seen any posts from Jamie2k9 in a few hours..... the law must have caught up with him! :sad:

[FR-]

I aint too fussed about the legal side of things, but we all know someone from fr watches these forums. Some of us know each others user names. But just watch out what you put in a public forum, some people in fr are evil and will grass you up. Dont use your own email either. Or post about a flight you was on.

fr-

[Jamie2k9]

Post deleted.

As cuthere said that where I got them from which FR have an public display.

FR

I think all of us who work for fr can find out flight loads from the crew room or even customer service desks, but we shouldn't be posting information like that. Maybe say the loads look good http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif



quiet right

some people in fr are evil and will grass you up

you can say that again.

[Jack1985]

Jamie2k9 i suggest you take a break and get some fresh air more often, a lot of your statements lack credibility. You seem to be on-line posting comments more often then the Administrators.

[NorthernCounties]

Jamie2k9 i suggest you take a break and get some fresh air more often, a lot of your statements lack credibility. You seem to be on-line posting comments more often then the Administrators.

Please don't attack other members of this forum. :=

FYI some of us appreciate his contribution.

[FR-]

I must admit, i always enjoy reading jamies posts, he/she seems in the know and has a good depth of knowledge

[sawtooth]

Back to Knock,

Good to hear high loads on the first Canaries flights despite very little marketing. Also significant as the Canaries services are to run year round, IWAK has been without winter sun routes for the last couple of years.

The airport MD is saying they are expecting to cater for 650000 this year which is a bit on the low side given current route portfolio but without economic recovery they probably aren't expecting recovery in UK demand.

Ireland West Airport Knock (http://www.irelandwestairport.com/utility/news_details.aspx?id=255)

Now advertising Italian summer charter:

Ireland West Airport Knock (http://www.irelandwestairport.com/flightinformation/route_map.aspx)

[Jack1985]

Im not atacking any forum members, i too enjoy his contributions, and if i gave that impression Jamie2k9 i apologize.

- -

Also im not very familiar with Knock, but im wondering is the development of new stands still going-ahead?? i am aware the Airport has only 3 stands which can be used simultaneously, and this happens on a regular basis.

[sawtooth]

Still only 3 stands on main apron A, similar size apron B sometimes used when main stands closed, pax bussed to terminal. Apron and taxiway surfaces were recently re-laid and marked, turn-pads were extended last year with RESA added on 09 end.

You would think the limited stand space it will become critical this summer with additional schedules. They planned to add 3 stands last year and a further 3 this year as part of the airport master plan.

But 4 years of An Taisce planning objections have delayed several projects including a planned car park and entrance road re-design which is blocking proposed apron. Also I believe the project was partly funded by Government capital dev grant which has been cut in recent budgets.

[Jack1985]

Yes i was thinking along those lines about Capacity on Apron A. I must say though that's the first i've heard of Apron B being used when Apron A is operating at Capacity. Hopefully those new stands will happen soon though as the Airport had more flights last summer on some days then Shannon.

[sawtooth]

I know B has been used when A stands are closed for work, but I don't think it's common. They probably try toto spread the schedule to avoid congestion and most work done in winter months.

But it does seem like a major weakness, also means they can't easily accept diversions as we saw during the major snow closures which filled SNN this year.

[Kinocker]

Why do they need to redesign the entrance road to increase the size of the apron?

There's loads of space up there to expand without having to do anything drastic like that surely?

Location Map (http://www.connaughtaeroclub.ie/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26&Itemid=35)

It would be great if Knock broke the 650,000 pax mark this year. Would show what could be achievable in more prosperous economic times. Who knows, it might be a 1 million pax airport some time down the line. Not anytime soon though!


One other thing - what was there to stop Knock taking diversions and leaving the planes on Apron B until they could leave? It would have been a limited number but I'd have thought they could have taken a few in December.

[sawtooth]

Apron plan is to expand north in first phase, which is across the current staff carpark and care-hire area. With car park already full to overflowing in summer they can't easily build over those areas without an alternative.

Not sure if that's the main hold up but may be partly to blame along with funding. Expanding apron east would be next but requires moving the fuel farm and major earthworks.

The current land-side parking set up isn't optimal for set down, bus, pedestrian or car hire access to the new terminal. The re-design should have happened along with the terminal building, but was held up by planning objections which were overruled by ABP last year.

Design involved a new long term car park with covered walkways along airport road, a new roundabout and entrance from existing road next to the new terminal, with bus bays and set down points outside the departure lounge. Purpose built car-hire compounds would also be built on current overflow car park.

[Kinocker]

Thanks Sawtooth, that's interesting - having a new access route closer to the terminal makes sense alright, as things stand you do a bit of an unnecessary loop to go down to the existing roundabout and back to the car park entrance.



Had a look at the UK pax numbers for January there. There were only routes to Dublin and the UK last month from Knock (hopefully that's the last month for some time or even ever where that is the case) so you can get a fair idea of how the airport has done in terms of passengers.

All UK routes are up apart from Bristol which has surprisingly dropped. You'd expect gains across the board given the weather disruption last January so the Bristol number is a bit disappointing. However the Leeds route didn't exist last year so there's a boost to the figures there.

All in all the final total will be a lot closer to the 2009 number (32,000) than the 2010 number (26,500) which is a decent start to the year. You would hope for big gains from April onwards as the new routes and seasonal routes kick in.

Tenerife started today with the other scheduled routes commencing over the next two months:

16 Feb Tenerife South
22 Feb Gran Canaria
1 Mar Faro
28 Mar Alicante
29 Mar Barcelona-Reus
7 Apr Lanzarote
19 Apr Edinburgh

[StephenM_SMC]

While the added routes and the encouraging passenger numbers are a bonus for the airport, in 2009 and 2010 the airport received a opex subsidies. Are the passengers going through the airport delivering too low a yield to be sustainable? Given the volatility of the main airline at the airport I'd take any new route with a pinch of salt.

[Kinocker]

Well every passenger over the age of 12 that departs from Knock adds €10 to the kitty regardless of what airline they fly with. In 2008 no subsidies were needed that I am aware of and the forecasts are that the 08 record pax number (629k) can be exceeded this year. Hopefully if that is the case the airport won't need a subsidy.

As for the main operator, Knock isn't a Cork or a Shannon so they have got to grasp every route they can get. I suspect Ryanair get a great deal at Knock and as such are unlikely to up sticks any time soon, although this years expansive continental schedule as listed above may not be sustainable longer term.

The presence of BMIBaby, Aer Lingus and soon flybe at the airport would give you hope that if Ryanair were ever to leave, much of the capacity would be taken up by other airlines. I don't think there is a need to fear expansion, the fact that it is holding steady in the midst of an economic crisis when other airports numbers are crashing shows that there is a lot of potential at Knock.

[sawtooth]

Government have rowed back on OPEX subsidy cut at GWY so I'd imagine there will be funding if needed at NOC. PSO loss mainly damages income from out of hours services, not sure how flexible FR will be if operating hours are reduced?

I used the DUB service last week, about 10 pax each way. All business or connecting passengers who will miss the service none the less.

Still hoping for better London schedule. Any chance of a Friday evening service, I see FR have added extra STN rotations from LDY?

[airnoc]

Quato Kinocker {I suspect Ryanair get a great deal at Knock and as such are unlikely to up sticks any time soon, although this years expansive continental schedule as listed above may not be sustainable longer term.}

Knock and ryanair will stay togeather while Knock does not open a base there as you are into contract and pax number which is alright while every thing is going good but if numbers drop on a route then the question start to be asked . So keep going the way ye are and everything should be alrighthttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

[Jamie2k9]

Topflight have canceled flights between Knock - Verona as they can't get an aircraft big enough to operate the route.

[sawtooth]

That's a pity, would have expected a surplus of charter aircraft given the market. It would have been an attractive connection to northern Italy, Verona and many attractive tourist packages around Lake Garda & Como region.

NOC could do with a new charter offering, sure the local market would like an alternative to ACE, FAO, DBV which have been served for years.

[airnoc]

From Jamie2k9
Topflight have canceled flights between Knock - Verona as they can't get an aircraft big enough to operate the route.

Hi Just wondering what forwards bookings were like as getting a aircarft big enough seem a bit light?http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif

[Jamie2k9]

Not sure about bookings but there was problems getting aircraft for the Cork flights as well.

Mistral Air were due to operate Cork and Knock but for what ever reason they are not now.

Europe Airpost will now operate Dublin - Verona - Cork - Verona - Dublin.

[iwak]

All gone very quiet on the noc front lately!I see Aer Lingus are back daily to LGW following the reduction to 4 weekly over the winter. Very interested to know how bookings are going with flybe for edi route if anybody is privy to this info.

Pity that the verona route didnt work out however there is plenty of choice to the sun this year from knock.

It will be sad to see aer arann go but during the ellection campaigns one of the partys I think fine gael said they would be willing to review the pso decision and maybe look at doing it a different way.It wont be a big blow to knock but I used the Dublin route several times and always handy to be there in 30 mins from Dub.

[Kinocker]

Some good news at Knock in terms of 2011 passenger numbers.

31,168 passengers used Knock in January, that's a 17.4% increase on 2010. Now the weather disruption last year will have explained some of that, but its still a big increase.

37,623 passengers used the airport in February, a 12.4% increase on last year. Don't remember there being too much disruption in February so that's probably a genuine year on year increase.

Also the new routes only started to kick in during February with two runs to Tenerife and one to Gran Canaria. The full effects of the addition of those two routes will only be seen in the March figures and then theres Lanzarote and Edinburgh still to come in April.

Knock looks to be massively outperforming the three state run airports in percentage terms with Shannon and Cork showing severe drops and Dublin just about holding steady. If Knock could keep that 12% increase going across the whole year they would easily break all previous passenger records at the airport which, in the current economic climate, would be some going.

[airnoc]

Great news to see Knock doing so well lets hope it keeps up.
As a matter of insterst which routes done the best for jan/feb and which are not as well apart from the pso?

[Kinocker]

WW to Birmingham looks to be the biggest improver so far, up 47% in January and 34% in February. Luton has seen big gains as well, up 17% in January and up 11% in February with a bigger passenger base than Birmingham. Liverpool (up 13% in January and 3% in February) also seems to be doing quite well.

On the negative side Bristol continues to struggle, down 12% in January and 19% in February. It has such a big catchment area that is otherwise unserved from Knock, I am surprised that it isn't more successful. WW at Manchester are still getting squeezed a bit by Ryanair at LPL & LBA, it is down slightly for the year so far and Stansted was down 11% in February as well, but the load factor there was still fairly decent.

On the subject of load factors the average load on UK routes to and from Knock in February was around 61%. The three London routes were the best performers in February here - Stansted at 72%, Luton at 71% and Gatwick at 66%. Birmingham next on 65% with Liverpool on 62%.

At the other end of the scale Bristol only managed to fill 42% of seats in February and Leeds/Bradford a shocking 33%. I know that the route is there primarily to squeeze out WW but you'd wonder how long MOL will bother with those kind of returns. He appears to have given up trying to chase Aer Lingus off the Gatwick route so LBA mightn't stick around too long either. You'd have to have concerns about the Bristol route as well.

Overall though the UK numbers are up which is good news, the commencement of the Edinburgh route in April should help as well since it doesn't really compete with any other route from the airport.

[StephenM_SMC]

The precedence for Glasgow doesn't bode well for Edinburgh, although with a Q400 it might be the right airline with the right aircraft for the route. I hope its a success.

[EI-BUD]

The precedence for Glasgow doesn't bode well for Edinburgh, although with a Q400 it might be the right airline with the right aircraft for the route. I hope its a success.


I would say that EDI is by far a more popular destination and besides this the Galway/Edinburgh route is up for grabs and given that Galway has most challenging financials and rumours abound that it may not survive in these times, I can see the in the first instance Flybe will attract many of these passengers and this coupled withe fact that Aer Arann in the guise of Aer Lingus Regional at Shannon will ensure that the Galway route is further distressed. I think EDI NOC will do very well.

EI-BUD

[Mayfly1]

Yes would agree with your analysis, still cant understand the logic as to why Aer Arann would canabalise their own Galway EDI service by agreeing to start a EI one from Shannon.....now that both airports are less than one hour from each other, unless they are expecting to pull back the Galway service altogether....

[Kinocker]

cant understand the logic as to why Aer Arann would canabalise their own Galway EDI service by agreeing to start a EI one from Shannon.....now that both airports are less than one hour from each other, unless they are expecting to pull back the Galway service altogether....

I wonder who's calling the shots in that arrangement with Aer Lingus, it sounds like the Aer Lingus get the best of what RE have, best aircraft, routes etc. I wonder can Cristoph Mueller go to Aer Arann and say 'I want Shannon - Edinburgh, five times a week' and then RE are obliged to deliver under the terms of their agreement? Because otherwise there is no point in them competing with themselves out of Galway like you say.

Had a fairly non-scientific flick through the three airlines summer schedules to Edinburgh there, Galway - Edinburgh seems to be hopelessly uncompetitively priced compared to the other two, I think it will really struggle this summer - the two new routes should hopefully be OK. If it is true that flybe can make a profit from a half full Dash 8 then they should be easily able to get the numbers they need to make NOC-EDI work.

NOC-DUB seems to be cancelled a lot again lately, it is amazing that anyone uses it given that there is an early train service and Aer Arann are so unreliable these days. Even though it is a daily route more people took charter flights from Knock to Lanzarote alone last summer than used the Dublin service for the whole year - I believe the total pax figures were under 7000 for the year. At this stage its departure will have next to no impact really.

[EI-BUD]

Kinocker

Read your last post with interest. I dont feel that Aer Lingus management are calling the shots on where Aer Arann will fly under the regional banner. Aer Arann are doing well on many routes and I feel Aer Lingus have given them a fairly good deal in terms of routes, eg EDI the busiest flight of the week always seemed to be the late on back EDI DUB on Sun night but Aer Arann do this and Aer Lingus dont seem to dive in and take the prime slots on a route like this where they effectively compete.

Galway's future as a regional airport is very in doubt and it is sensible on the part of Aer Arann (ALR) to look at Shannon and I bet it is more SAA attracting Aer Arann rather then AerLingus insisting on it.
EI-BUD

[Kinocker]

You could well be right EI-BUD, I'm purely speculating as until now Padraig O Ceididh and RE have always been massively loyal to Galway and when there have been opportunities to expand at compting airports (NOC and SNN) they have steered clear to protect their own base.

But perhaps with the Stobart money coming in now the Galway element of the airline will take a back seat and SNN will become their western base as EIR. With the Dublin route likely to go in July and the Edinburgh route under serious pressure Galway may revert to just serving London airports and Manchester, the only routes that are likely to be able to co-exist with competing services from NOC and SNN.


Back to Knock, I see that Mayo TD Michael Ring has earned himself a job in the transport and tourism department as Minister of State for Tourism and Sport. I'm neither a fan of the man himself or the type of local politics he specialises in (he sometimes gets to 10 or more funerals a day!) but he is in the right department to have a say on airport funding and tourism incentives - between himself and the Taoiseach the airport should be (and I'm sure will be) getting in touch with them as our local representatives to encourage development of the facility. The senior minister, Leo Varadkar, has already been to his ancestral homeland of India to promote his local airport (Dublin) which shows that having people in the right positions in politics is an advantage that should be used where possible to stimulate growth.

Hopefully Knock can take advantage of this.

[airnoc]

Micheal Ring was talking about getting more tourist to west of Ireland. Seem to me he wants airforce one to land in knock as there will the world media following obama to see what he has to offer

[iwak]

Flybe have the edi route on sale till early jan 2012 now.This to me would suggest the route has sold well even before its started.Anybody any ideas on how its selling.

Fares on the canary routes seem very low maybe three together was overkill.

Anyhow hope summer 2011 is a great success from noc.If the edi route does work out flybe would be a good airline brand with the right size aircraft to develop further with.:ok:

[Jamie2k9]

Fares on the canary routes seem very low maybe three together was overkill.



Once ACE starts prices for TFS and LPA fall even further.

The 3 new routes will affect numbers on ALC, REU and FAO. Ryanair have already reduced Faro this summer. Last year it operated 4 weekly in July and August. This year it will stay at 3 weekly which is just over 3,400 seats lost on one route.

Although good news about EDI.

[ericlday]

LPS = Lopez Island

[Jamie2k9]

Ya keep forgetting that. I mean LPA.

[sawtooth]

Shot interview with Ireland West Airport Knock Chairman Liam Scollan in Fridays Irish Times.

Numbers should be back to 2007 levels this year due to route growth, but pax spend down 30%:

...Passenger numbers at the Mayo facility are likely to rise by 9 per cent this year to about 640,000.

This is largely down to the launch of three sun routes to the Canary Islands by Ryanair and regional carrier Flybe starting a service to Edinburgh from April 19th. “We are getting growth from new routes but average spend by passengers is still in decline,” Scollan said.

Passenger spend down a third from peak, airport has cut cost base by 30%.

Passenger spending is still going down . . . due to the recession. ... Has Knock turned a corner? “It would be too optimistic to say that,” said Scollan. Knock’s passenger traffic fell by 3 per cent last year to 589,000.

Scollan was critical of how the country is marketed aboard. “I wouldn’t be sufficiently happy at this stage at how Tourism Ireland is promoting the regions and the country as a whole,” he said.

“I don’t see the focus from where I’m standing.”

Scollan is keen for Knock to have flights to one of the major European airport hubs – Heathrow or Charles de Gaulle in Paris are his preferences – and believes that support should be available to help the airport achieve this goal.

Passengers set to flock via Knock - The Irish Times - Fri, Mar 25, 2011 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0325/1224293036991.html)

[Fly_bill]

I udnerstand the Canaries routes are performing well with loads in line with expectations. Prices on Gran Canaria seem to be good value but are still mroe expensive than Dublin which is a sign in itself. i think what you will see this year is the airport widening its catachment area signficantly and pulling in a lot of first time users looking for value for money fares and a good choice of destinations...looks like they going to have their busiest year on record (according to Mr Scollans article) which is good achievement given the state of the economy

[airnoc]

Just heard on mid west radio that Prince William & and his Wife Kate will fly into Ire west Knock on may 1st to honeymoon here.
Will done to all at the airport to get the newly married into the west.

[NorthernCounties]

Sorry, but sounds like an April Fools to me...

Last I heard, they were going to Melbourne again!

[sawtooth]

Anyone know what aircraft Prince Albert left on yesterday for Monaco/NCE?

[Angry Rebel]

Ryanair to Monaco - West (ie Reus) and a bus from there home. Apparently he noted that after a dozen bullseye baggies the bus ride isn't so bad.

[NorthernCounties]

Ryanair to Monaco - West (ie Reus) and a bus from there home. Apparently he noted that after a dozen bullseye baggies the bus ride isn't so bad.

Literally LAUGH. OUT. LOUD! :p

[sawtooth]

:) I've taken that bus ride in 30 degree heat and could have done with a few baggies myself!

[iwak]

Bmi baby have announced the closure of man and cardiff base from end of summer 2011 so this will leave the man route without an operator .I would hope to see flybe with an embraer or maybe aer lingus take up the route.I would not like to see ryanair take the route, noc is better off with a mix of airlines .maybe even jet 2 may look at it . Hopefully it will be sorted fairly quickly.

[Kinocker]

Surely an easy one for flybe to pick up, they'll break even with fewer passengers than bmibaby would so will be less affected by the ryanair competition at LPL and LBA.

Also MAN is far better suited for connections than EDI, they could even maybe run a daily service including connecting passengers?

[sawtooth]

Ryanair don't have a MAN base, they started LPL and LBA to compete with WW MAN route and LPL has been successful remaining daily with good loads.

Ideally BE would use the opportunity to add a second route from NOC. Q400 would be a bit of a downgrade from the 737 but would possibly allow them bring it back to year round daily service (it was double daily some days in the past).

As Kinocker said MAN is much more more suitable for connecting services (EDI really isn't practical). If they offered a direct through connection to CDG (or AMS) hub and marketed it as so it would be a popular option.

Another possibility is BD retaining the route.

[iwak]

I know ryanair don't have a base but a w pattern from dub would work for them just like they did lgw when they operated it.

I suspect they won't get the big marketing support for a man route as it is well established and I presume ww made money on it for the past 7years.

Fingers crossed for tuesday that fly be will announce a daily embraer service to man for winter during the launch of the edi route.

Iwak

[Roll to the end]

well it looks like Flybe are adding some frequencies on the edi route, adding Friday and a Monday service for the summer.

Also Manchester has been proven for many years going back to the days of BA, I'd be fairly confident someone will pick it up.

[sawtooth]

Thats encouraging before the route starts. Visit Scotland had some advertising in Western media this week.

Friday flight and reasonable times makes the route much more attractive as a weekend destination.

[iwak]

That's great news

An encouraging start is right obviously forward bookigs quite good.I'm sure Galway airport/aer arann wont like this.

Well let's hope flybe bring good news on Tuesday.

[Kinocker]

Delighted to see the increase on the Edinburgh route for July and August, all the noises have been positive regarding this route so far with an extension into the winter months and a summer frequency increase both being added before the route has even started. While the number of extra passengers generated by this increase will be small enough, it means that flybe are seeing that there is room for expansion from Knock and are willing to exploit this.

Incidentally I will be flying this route next week and have noticed that the price of the flight has gone up threefold since I booked it. Hopefully that means it will be fairly full.

I'd be very hopeful that they would take up the MAN route and would have a strong preference for them over any of the other airlines mentioned, but surely it would be too soon to expect an announcement on Tuesday, bmibaby have only announced their exit from MAN this week and there is plenty of time until the end of October to line up a replacement.

[iwak]

Hi knocker

Looking forward to hearing a report back on ur flight nxt wk

Iwak

[Kinocker]

Didn't hear it myself but apparently Mad West Radio were down at the EDI launch today and reported pax numbers in the 50s for the first flights.

That would be plenty to make the route a success if maintained.

Deputy Ring was down as well to open the route, I hope he plans on doing more for the region as minister than cutting the tape on developments that he had no involvement in providing...

[NorthernCounties]

Kinocker, I remember seeing it on the Flybe thread recently that sometimes, BE can spin a profit from as low as a dozen passengers. So with 50 passengers on its first flight, before it even truly establishes itself is VERY promising.

Hope you's do get a MAN route, as long as we at LDY get and EDI route! ;)

[Knock63]

Hi all, new here, heard a rumour that aer lingus might take up the Man route, don't know if they'd use an airbus, think a full ATR might be better than a half full 320.

[iwak]

Heard on local radio today that it was 50 inbound and 55 outbound to Edinburgh.very good figures for th inaugural service.

[brian_dromey]

Those seem like good figures for the route. The increase in frequency and extension into the winter are definitely positive. signs.

I would be surprised to see MAN go unserved, WW have proved a market exists. My guess is EI/Aer Arann or flyBe would be the most likely to operate the route. FR is a possibility, too - although a slim one.

Best of luck to NOC and flyBe.

[840]

If Aer Lingus took it over, it would almost certainly be an Aer Lingus Regional flight in an ATR.

They operate the ATR from Cork and Shannon, so it would seem unlikely that Knock would use the A320.

[iwak]

I think there is no reason why a 4weekly a320 wouldn't be sustainable with are lingus. Aer lingus regional can be quite pricey and I think this would lead to a fall in passenger numbers if they were to operate the route.

I still think the best options would be jet 2 for low fares and high volume but flybe have the right size aircraft for a 7 day week operation with the added bonus of interline options for connections.

Would I be right in guessing the route carries circa 50,000 per annum?

[NorthernCounties]

Beggers can't be choosers though.

I know I'd much rather a 5-7 weekly ATR service as opposed to a 4 weekly A320 service.

Also were would the A320 come from? There is no base there, and W rotation planning for just four weekly rotations would be a pain!

I could see Knock getting services on the days Shannon does via a W rotation.

However, I think the actual airline that will step in is Flybe... I'd prefer them tbh too!

[840]

At one point ORK-MAN had 11 BMIBaby 737s a week, plus 7 Aer Lingus A320s.

Now, it's just 2 ATR 72s a day.

For airlines now, it's all about yield, not providing cheap fares to customers.

If Aer Lingus were to consider launching a route to Knock using an A320 doing a W, it would seem more likely for a hub connection like AMS or CDG. Seeing that Knock doesn't have a hub connection yet, there is probably the potential to extract some decent yield there.

[Kinocker]

Would I be right in guessing the route carries circa 50,000 per annum?

Close enough, 47,885 last year, which is a considerable number given the competition from Ryanair with routes to LPL and LBA. It is the fifth busiest route at the airport after STN, LTN, LGW and LPL.

I think its a given that if its Aer Lingus it will be under the EI Regional brand. Would have previously said that RE wouldn't compete with themselves out of Galway but given that they are now doing it at Shannon, they may well be willing to do likewise at Knock. However, my preference would remain flybe as it would help them to improve their brand awareness in this part of the world, I think there is room for them to expand into other routes from Knock and maybe eventually base a plane here.

I like Aer Lingus but my opinion is that they have never properly given Knock the chance it deserves and are unlikely to start doing so now. If they set up MAN it would probably just be a one off route with no real possibility for future expansion from the airline. That is why we have UK carriers like bmibaby and flybe competing with Ryanair here by flying to the major UK airports when at Shannon and Cork it is Aer Lingus doing the competing on these routes.

[Kinocker]

Had a very nice flight into Knock today with flybe, landed from the west which I haven't done in a long time - got a nice aerial tour of east Mayo thrown in.

I'd say somewhere between 55 and 60 on board, back of the plane was packed but a good few spare seats up front, I think they load it that way for weight balance on the dash 8.

Unfortunately it looks like the flight back to Edinburgh has had a four hour delay, I don't know why, everything seemed to run smoothly on the flight into Knock - I guess I was lucky to have escaped a significant delay today.

[Knock63]

I believe the problem was something to do with a faulty hydraulic pump. Replacement aircraft flew in from Bhx to take the pax at 17:00.

[Kinocker]

Credit to flybe for getting another plane over yesterday afternoon to get the passengers to Edinburgh. Plenty of airlines would have cancelled the flight and that would have been that. The original plane went to Birmingham this morning to replace the replacement, so to speak.

Interesting front page in today's Mayo Advertiser. Photo of the inaugural Edinburgh arrival (featuring Ring of course) but also an advert right underneath from Visit Scotland and Galway Airport promoting the Aer Arann Edinburgh service. Clearly Galway not giving this one up without a fight. Don't think this part of the world is populated enough to sustain both services...

Eight of the 12 Ryanair routes have been loaded into the booking engine for the winter season. Faro, Alicante and Reus not there as they are seasonal routes. Gran Canaria is a notable absentee though as it was meant to be a year round service. Of course it may yet be added and these things take time but it is strange that Tenerife and Lanzarote have been updated but Gran Canaria has not.

EDIT: Jamie (below) seems to have clarified that it will not, in fact, operate. That's a pity but six different sun destinations on 738s always seemed like it might be overkill with people taking less holidays these days. Alicante may not return next year due to the Ryanair dispute there so there might be a possibility for Gran Canaria to come back next summer.

[Jamie2k9]

Loads on TFS and LPA routes from NOC.

Tenerife - Feb = 54% (4 flights)
Tenerife - March = 58% - SNN had 77% (both airports had 10 flights)
Gran Caneria - Feb = 12% (2 flights)
Gran Caneria - March = 37% - SNN had 63% (both airports had 10 flights)

Source Aena

Dispute fares from Knock being much cheaper than Shannon, SNN seems to be doing best.

Gran Caneria was very poor for the first full month. Which is why it will not operate next winter.

Alicante may not return next year due to the Ryanair dispute there so there might be a possibility for Gran Canaria to come back next summer.

I think ALC will be back but Gran Canaria may be at risk as there are problems with the base which may close in the coming months.

It will be intresting to see what affect ACE has on LPA and TFS as I think it will be the best out of all 3.

[Fly_bill]

Interesting stats Jamie, In fairness its early days with Las Palmas and the Canaries routes and it will probably take time before people become accustomed to these routes at the airport, Id have no doubt you will see a major increase in numbers over summer months (I understand LPA seeing very strong numbers in April and I understand ACE is running close to 90% for the month but they are all realtively new. I think two canary islands routes during the winter is ample and dont want overkill, routes are more established out of Shannon as been in place a longer time so would be interesting to see like for like comparisons this time next year once routes are estalblished, also SNN doesent have FAO or ALC or REU which accounts for 9 flights a week in addition which probably is having impact on other sun routes as this is a lot of capacity especially in a recession so all in all routes doing ok!

[Jamie2k9]

Just on another note when you book a Ryanair flight from Knock does it say when you are booking you have to pay a ADF. Aer Lingus and Aer Arann clearly state this but do Ryanair?

[Fly_bill]

No, Ryanair refuse to publish it on their website, they operate a similar policy in relation to other airports who have an ADF in place

[sawtooth]

Ryanair have loaded winter timetable up to March 2012. No major changes jump out, mostly similar times and frequencies. STN, LTN, EMA, BRS, LPL, LBA, TFS, ACE loaded. FAO, ALC & REU not yet loaded though they are seasonal so will probably come later. LPA was supposed to be year round, but as Jamie2k9 posts show it's had one of the weaker starts, wait and see.

On London NOC-STN 13.25 daily except Monday with an 8.30 morning flight (handy for workers, now if they could just do a late Friday)!!

[Jamie2k9]

STN times will change along with some other route times possibly. FR allow 2 months to change flight times/days.

[Knock63]

I wonder is there any truth in the rumour about new FR flights from Knock to FUE and IBZ, seems to be a LOT of holiday destinations already.

[CARNMANORLAD]

I doubt those rumours are true cause the LFs on Gran Canaria show that NOC have more than enough sun routes for the demand. If Gran Canaria aint popular why would Fuertebentura be?

[Kinocker]

Only possibility would be if they feel there is more summer capacity there and are planning to operate them seasonally. Judging by today the Faro flights are doing very well, huge crowd in the departures lounge and a big crowd off the inbound flight as well. It looks very much as though two winter sun routes is plenty though going by the February and March loads this year.

I was on the flybe flight back to Edinburgh, just over half full and a very nice flight. Nice to be able to check in with no hold baggage and not be charged extra for the privilege like the Ryanair passengers in the adjacent queue were!

[sawtooth]

Neither are FR bases at the moment so I'd imagine not this year unless they have a fall out with one of the other 3. Canaries seem seriously well served along with ACE charters, short ferry hop to Corralejo. Who knows maybe FUE feel left out of the hub club and would pay for some FR love.

IBZ could add some variety for younger folk, currently only served from DUB.

Would be better to see them grow current Spanish routes and diversify a bit next year into Italy. Also still believe there is inbound potential from France and Germany if well marketed with Discover Ireland.

[iwak]

Hi kinocker

Good to hear you had a nice flight back to edi ,did you see what the load was like on the inbound.

The canaries are well served from knock and I think Malaga would be more realistic than ibz .

Any rumours on a carrier for man for the winter!

[Jamie2k9]

NOC will not see a FUE service unless NOC or FUE are a base. Ryanair would not operate a W route from FUE.

I don't see IBZ happoning.

[sawtooth]

Ireland West Airport marketing manger saying they had a very strong month in April:
Flight numbers in and out of Ireland West Airport have exceeded expectations recently. Initial estimations for the month of April suggest more than 55,000 passengers are expected to have passed through the airport during the four week period, which is close to a new record.

On Flybe EDI route:

Mr Healy said the first flights were completely booked out while the most recent flights have all been 75 per cent full and this is an encouraging start.

April figures very strong at Knock Airport (http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12561:april-figures-very-strong-at-knock-airport&catid=23:news&Itemid=46)

[Kinocker]

Iwak - I didn't see the passengers coming off the inbound flight as I was clearing security at the time.

Very good news on the April figures, should be a record breaking summer.

Flight numbers in and out of Ireland West Airport have exceeded expectations recently. Initial estimations for the month of April suggest more than 55,000 passengers are expected to have passed through the airport during the four week period, which is close to a new record.

For comparative purposes:

April 2008 49,000
April 2009 47,550
April 2010 38,767

55,000 would have been a May/June figure rather than an April one in recent years and would represent a 42% rise on last year's volcano disrupted April.

[Knock63]

Apparently though, as encouraging as those figures are, i hear the management are claiming that the "passenger spending" is down :rolleyes: Whenever I've been there the queues at the till and bar have been endless !!! Trying the old 3 card trick with the workforce no doubt.

[sawtooth]

Passenger spend down 30% and the airport has cut it's cost base by the same amount according to an interview with the airport Chairman last month:

Passengers set to flock via Knock - The Irish Times - Fri, Mar 25, 2011 (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2011/0325/1224293036991.html)

Not clear what spending he's referring to or what period. Several factors could be at play: online check-in cutting down time in terminal, less discretionary shopping, tight limits on carry on liquids, LOCO restrictions on carry on baggage, relatively basic retail and food offering. Bus services could have had a small impact on parking.

And the unique Knock phenomenon of relatives dropping off pax and having a few drinks in the viewing lounge to wave them off is also dying out as the airport gets more commercial.

[iwak]

I see aer lingus are back daily to lgw for winter and Shannon gets the 4 weekly service .

Very positive figures for April would definitely agree that here is huge inbound potential from Germany and France during the summer season.

I remember about 10 years ago when there were flights from Amsterdam, berlin,Frankfurt,Munich and dusseldorf along with the recntlylost Zurich each Saturday.

These were all inbound charters heading for holidays on the Shannon Erne waterway.

Frankfurt has been well supported at Kerry so no reason it couldn't be at
knock.

[Jamie2k9]

Aer Lingus, Ryanair, Flybe, Bmibaby, Air Europa and Europe Airpost will have a total of 95,654 seats for sale for the month of July from Knock. August is more less the same.

Aer Arann, Luganair and Dubrovnik Airline (1 flight) figures not included.

Faro flights this year are reduced by the charter operators and Ryanair. Over 2,000 less seats on the route in July.

[sawtooth]

IWAK: agree that here is huge inbound potential from Germany and France during the summer season. I remember about 10 years ago when there were flights from Amsterdam, berlin,Frankfurt,Munich and dusseldorf along with the recntlylost Zurich each Saturday.

And those accents were noticeably absent from many of the Wests scenic areas during the boom years. It's a pity they lost Zurich as the whole focus of European flights now is outbound bucket and spade, with a little inbound tourism coming from the UK routes.

Yet Tourism Ireland marketing is almost 100% focused on Dublin and Kerry. You only need to look at the mess airline magazines and travel websites make when they profile the airport with dull recounts of visits to Knock shrine, completely missing the wood for the trees.

We have a very good tourism product in the West with some of the best the scenic attractions in Europe, perfect for family, tour and green holidays in an area that has retained some of the old Irish charm. We now have very modern affordable hotel accommodation, most with spas and pools, many wonderful restaurants, museums, festivals and cultural attractions, as well as improved transport and tourism infrastructure (airport, roads, public transport, western greenway trails etc).

But whats is needed is an integrated approach to marketing and packaging that product under one Western brand along with flights and supporting rich information website so it is accessible to a would be visitor.

The tourism minister should be setting out that vision and making the various tourism bodies to work together to identify key target markets in France, Germany, Italy, and work with travel agents and airlines to develop seasonal routes and fund a marketing drive to create that awareness.

But we're dealing with civil servants here so wont hold out much hope of an vision :(

[NorthernCounties]

Just wondering does anyone know what the load factors on BRS, LBA and REU are like?

Looking forward to hearing how well EDI went too!

Cheers

[Kinocker]

Bristol and Leeds have similar loads to each other ranging from >70% in summer to <50% in winter. Bristol always does slightly better than Leeds. I would describe them both as quite marginal routes from Knock in the winter months.

Reus did extremely well last summer, >85% in July and August and still decent for the other months it ran (May - Oct), much more competition in terms of sun routes this year though proximity to Barcelona gives this route something that the others cannot offer. All reports so far indicate that Edinburgh is flying but it is to early yet to be able to back that up with figures.

Flybe have added some more connections through Edinburgh - Jersey, Guernsey, Inverness and Stornaway can now be booked from Knock. I have no idea whether there is much of a take up on these connections but there are now 13 in total on offer via Edinburgh.

[FR-]

From what i have heard the loads on Reus is in the range of 90-130pax at the moment.

[NorthernCounties]

Cheers for the info!

I'm not sure how many people will choose to connect via EDI. I remember reading that one month, only about 250 originating from BHD chose to connect via MAN on their way to CDG. But the fact that there are less routes on offer at NOC you might find more connecting.

If the advertising is any thing like that at LDY you might see a lot more using the option to connect!

[Kinocker]

Aena's stats for April show the following for the new Canary Island routes from Knock:

Tenerife 1,093 Pax 72% LF
Gran Can 858 Pax 57% LF
Lanzarote 1,070 Pax 81% LF - assuming first incoming flight was empty or close to it

Lanzarote doing very well in its first month of operation, Tenerife doing fine, Gran Canaria still lagging behind a bit.

[Jamie2k9]

NOC - REU - 47% load factor - didn't operate April 2010
NOC - ALC - 62% load factor

[Kinocker]

NOC - REU - 47% load factor - didn't operate April 2010
NOC - ALC - 43% load factor

Alicante was 62% Jamie with 3,273 passengers spread over 28 flights. Your Reus figure is correct.

However it is difficult to judge the true loads on these routes in April. They will actually be much higher as the first few flights from Spain on both are likely to have come in close to empty with the routes only recommencing at the very end of March. For that reason I had left the two routes out of my post.

It is clear to see that Alicante is doing much better than Reus. Beyond that it is difficult to read anything into those two figures. Overall, four of the five routes did not run in April 2010. Alicante only ran for part of the month. All put together the five routes amount to a 6,600 pax increase from Knock compared to April 2010.

[Jamie2k9]

I calcuated KIR figues by mistake. I did think that ALC should be better than Reus. One of those days.:ugh:

[sawtooth]

Ireland West will be relieved by yesterdays announcement that the minister for transport supports the airports viability and funding for operational support. However the minister did warn all airports would have to cut costs and the overall regional airports budget will be dramatically smaller in the future.

The airports director today said it will need continued financial support. He highlighted the need for effective marketing of UK routes to improve loads from a 66% average, but said the main issue is capital spending needed for planned RESA and ramp improvements:

According to Mr Gilmore, the issue facing Knock airport is capital. “We are hoping to expand our external apron (ramp), and repair our runway as well as ensure our security measures are sufficient, so it’s a big challenge.”

Knock airport safe (http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12722:knock-airport-safe-for-now&catid=23:news&Itemid=46)

[Jamie2k9]

Jan - 31,168 up 17.7%
Feb - 37,623 up 12.4%
Mar - 46,865 up 4.8%
April - 57,345 up 47.9%

[Kinocker]

Very impressive going so far this year, up more than 20% for the first four months, if that was continued over the whole year pax would exceed 700,000. That may not quite be achieved but May numbers will again be well up on last year and the summer season offers promise also as the charters kick in. While the April numbers are obviously far up on last year it is worth noting that they are around 10,000 up on both 2008 and 2009 as well, so there is genuine growth there, its not just the ash cloud.

[airnoc]

Jan - 31,168 up 17.7%
Feb - 37,623 up 12.4%
Mar - 46,865 up 4.8%
April - 57,345 up 47.9%
Hi Well done Ire West Knock on pax no this year so and hopefully more to come.
How are the charter filghts doing againts ryanair.
I see that ryanair are back weekly on liverpool i take it that it is a hit on man route before it is finish in oct

[Kinocker]

Yes I noticed there was a Liverpool service yesterday, wasn't sure if that was the first one but certainly until recently there was no flight on a Saturday. Also noticed that it is scheduled to arrive and depart at exactly the same time as the WW service to MAN, although that may just be a coincidence.

If nobody was to move onto the MAN route then NOC-LPL would become a seriously profitable operation for Ryanair however, given that WW have run a 737 profitably on the route for years, I'd be amazed if nobody wanted a shot at it.

Also you have the strong possibility of Galway Airport - which has a daily MAN service - closing next year, so that would result in more MAN passengers switching to Knock.

Still think its an easy opportunity for flybe to run a successful daily flight despite the Ryanair competition.

In terms of Winter operational changes compared to last year, so far it looks like this:

Gatwick: up from 4 per week to 7 per week
Luton: down from 7 per week to 4 per week
East Midlands: down from 4 per week to 3 per week
Liverpool: up from 6 per week to 7 per week
Edinburgh: up from no service to 3 per week
Tenerife: up from no service to 1 per week
Lanzarote: up from no service to 1 per week
Manchester: down from 4 per week to no service
Leeds, Bristol, Birmingham & Stansted: no change to number of flights (some changes to days of operation)

So a slight increase in weekly international flights so far, with some winter sun routes and hope that a Manchester operator will be added to the list. I don't expect we'll see any winter charters this year (there weren't any last year), or any new scheduled routes operating this side of Christmas.

You'd never know though.

[NorthernCounties]

I could see BE stepping in eventually to take over the MAN route since they've liked what they've seen with the EDI route.

[Kinocker]

The first official stats for the new NOC-EDI route (April provisional stats from the CAA) state that 502 people used the first 10 flights for an average load factor of 64.4%.

This suggests that all the anecdotal evidence was spot on and it looks like a very encouraging start for flybe on the route.

Edit - that is the good news...the bad news is that the ash cloud seems to be steadily closing in and the EDI route may be the first to be hit. Flybe haven't pulled their flights from Edinburgh yet, but Aberdeen and Inverness flights are cancelled so it might not be too far away. Of course if the cloud continues its trek south, Knock itself will soon be in the firing line.

[Kinocker]

LBA and BRS routes are no longer bookable on the Ryanair website after the end of October. Ryanair had spoken earlier in the week about doubling the number of parked aircraft in the winter months. Perhaps this is part of the reduction being planned. If Ryanair were to cut any routes from Knock it would be these ones as they have the lowest average loads, but as things stand this would leave LPL as the only north of England route with a replacement for MAN not yet announced.

[CARNMANORLAD]

Its the same at LDY up until yesterday STN was double daily from Nov but from today double daily is on Sun & Fri only. I put it down to the fact that RYR are groundin a 1/3 of their fleet for Winter 11. Although they could just be putting some last minute tweaks in place. 2 routes is alot to lose for a regional airport.

[Kinocker]

I'd be surprised if this was tweaking to be honest, maybe your contact at Ryanair ops could confirm?

I was looking through last years numbers for the two routes there to see how they held up in the summer season - but apart from in the height of summer (i.e. August) when loads were high I'd say its borderline whether enough people have been using them to justify bringing them back seasonally next year.

Bristol (and the south west of England & south Wales as a whole) looks a bit like the Edinburgh/Scotland market to me, there's definitely demand for a service, but probably not enough demand to justify a 738. One that the regional airlines may well look at as they would not have Ryanair competition to contend with, similar to flybe currently at Edinburgh. Leeds I'm not so sure about, if there is a regular service to both Manchester and Liverpool I wouldn't see too many airlines queueing up to offer a competing service to Leeds. Many of the passengers on that service have been enticed over from Manchester by cheap Ryanair fares.

Securing a new service from Manchester is more important than ever now though.



On the up side, the summer schedule is really kicking into gear now - 24 aircraft movements scheduled for tomorrow involving 11 different destinations from six different airlines including flights to and from Edinburgh, Reus, Lanzarote and two to & from Faro. Arrivals and departures boards looking nice and full which is good to see.

[Jamie2k9]

LBA no surprise it has preformed poorly since it started.
BRS a surprise but operating on Tues, Thur and Sat last winter and was due to this winter doesn't help as all weekend travel lost.

[sawtooth]

NOC was on the Ryanair press release about LBA winter schedule launch. Has it been confirmed? Would have expected them to keep it with WW leaving MAN, though it was marginal.

Ryanair Launches Leeds Bradford Winter Schedule With 11 Routes (http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-launches-leeds-bradford-winter-schedule-with-11-routes)

[Kinocker]

Havent seen it confirmed anywhere but both routes were bookable for next winter up to about three days ago, but haven't been bookable since.

While I hope it's due to schedule tinkering I think it's more likely they've been cut based on ryanairs decision to park up more aircraft for the winter. Hopefully if that is the case they will be back in the spring.

[Jamie2k9]

As the routes were bookable it unlike Ryanair to remove them from the system as if there are time and day changes being made they would just remove the current days/time and have 7 airplanes crossed out. Only time will tell.

Could there of being any disagreement with NOC airport over the €10 charged on departure or airport charges as they are just about breaking even according to news reports lately.

[Kinocker]

I doubt there is any particular issue with regard to the departure charge, Ryanair and IWAK have always just agreed to disagree on that one and it hasn't prevented Ryanair expanding their route network before.

Anyone know what kind of aircraft Air Méditerranée are using for their charter flights today? They have three departures on the board, I don't know if its the same plane ferrying over and back to France or if there are multiple flights? The additional charters will make for a very busy departure lounge today though in additional to the regular scheduled services.

[airnoc]

Kinocker
Anyone know what kind of aircraft Air Méditerranée are using for their charter flights today? They have three departures on the board, I don't know if its the same plane ferrying over and back to France or if there are multiple flights? The additional charters will make for a very busy departure lounge today though in additional to the regular scheduled services.

Hi I agree that it will a busy day at Ire West Knock with three charters to Lourdes. Would this there busy day yet this year so far?
I think Flybe should look at Brs, Alc & Lba seem that ryr are gone for the time been.

[Knock63]

I believe it was a 735 doing a there and back trip with the pilgrims and an A321 to take the PRMs.

[Kinocker]

Thanks for the info Knock 63.

[FR-]

It was a 757 yesterday

[Knock63]

Definitely NOT a 757, it was an Airbus 321.

[Jamie2k9]

NOC - BRS route being dropped has just being confirmed:

Ryanair Welcomes 260M UK Passengers (http://www.ryanair.com/ie/news/ryanair-welcomes-260m-uk-passengers)

[EI-BUD]

Since Ryanair’s first UK flight departed from London Gatwick to Dublin in July 1985 Ryanair has opened 10 UK bases and offers flights on over 370 routes from 17 UK airports


This statement taken from the Ryanair news on 260m passenger. Looks like an error, Waterford London Gatwick was the 1st route??

EI-BUD

[sawtooth]

Sad to see BRS go as I used the service several times, FR may well be watching the MAN situation with LBA. But the figures will prove there is demand with the right equipment.

-----

The airport was open 25 years last week, busiest month in April and expecting their busiest year to date. Touting 40% share of UK market from the West. Good to hear the main focus is on securing inbound European routes according to the management.

But any route loss makes an impact on a small airports figures and hopes of a based aircraft seem slim in the short-term unless FR engage with the Governments tourism incentive plan next Summer.

Ireland West Airport Knock celebrates 25 years - Galway Independent (http://www.galwayindependent.com/business/business/ireland-west-airport-knock-celebrates-25-years-20110601/)

[Kinocker]

The airport was open 25 years last week, busiest month in April

The article says it had its busiest ever month in April but that cannot possibly be correct, busiest April probably, but it could not possibly have been busier than a typical July or August at the airport.

If any airline was to base a plane at the moment it would most likely be a regional one - for instance if flybe added MAN and BRS to their EDI service and one hub connection (lets say CDG), that would probably be enough to base a plane. I think they would be successful too as both MAN and BRS are proven routes, but there appears to be no sign of it happening at present.

Of course we don't know whether Ryanair are planning to run BRS seasonally. If summer loads are strong, they may well do.

[sawtooth]

The article says it had its busiest ever month in April but that cannot possibly be correct, busiest April probably, but it could not possibly have been busier than a typical July or August at the airport.


Well spotted, I thought it sounded odd! Wikipedia mentions 81,000 passengers using the airport in August 09 as the busiest month.

Interesting route numbers table on that page also. wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_West_Airport_Knock#cite_note-stats-14)

Anna aero feature on the airport:
ireland-west-airport-knock-celebrates-25th-anniversary/ (http://www.anna.aero/2011/06/02/ireland-west-airport-knock-celebrates-25th-anniversary/)

[airnoc]

Hi Saw on aertel page rte yesterday friday dublin dep dtr 491 to noc was this on route to lde?

[Jamie2k9]

it was a Danish Air Transport ATR 72. It's going from SNN to Zurich tomorrow afternoon.

[airnoc]

Jamie2k9 Thank for that

[Roll to the end]

What's going on with Ryanair this winter at knock, from what I can see there's nothing bookable.. is there something going on in the background?

Also with Galway's inevitable closure will this have an impact on knock at all, would RE consider moving into noc.

[iwak]

They were bookable earlier today I wonder are they going to announce a base at noc and so all the times would have to change.??. My other theory is there is a bit of a standoff between the airport and ryanair due to the fact they pulled Bristol and lba for winter or else ryanair want to take over the man route and the airport are not providing the usual support as it's an established route.

Noc would be pretty screwed if it weren't for ryanair .without ryanair you don't get volume ,unless easyjet make a return to Ireland.

[Knock63]

O (http://www.johnomahony.ie/?p=1605) Some good news for IWAK with the Government financial backing assured. I thought the LBA was ON for the winter ?? According to the FR website.

[iwak]

Nothing bookable at all for this winter tonight.

[Roll to the end]

Leeds was originally on the system then was taken down assumed to have been dropped, but now everything has been dropped which is curious. I did think a base at first but I'd imagine it would be a long shot.

[Kinocker]

Very strange, only Tenerife and Lanzarote bookable after October at the moment...but the page layout suggests that the other four winter routes have not been pulled because the dates still show (unlike LBA and BRS which are completely gone after October). Could mean anything from time/frequency changes to something more significant - either good or bad.

I think Knock would pick up a few passengers from the demise of Galway, but probably not a lot else. And even pax wise GWY is running at <100k per annum on international routes at this stage, and only some of those will transfer to Knock. The only gain will be that it will be clearly 'the' hub airport for Connacht now, but then again it always has been anyway...

If GWY does go, the absence of early morning and late evening flights to and from London to Connacht will need to be addressed - that is GWYs only unique offering relative to Knock.

We'll have to wait and see on the Ryanair thing.

[Jamie2k9]

They were bookable earlier today I wonder are they going to announce a base at noc and so all the times would have to change.??. My other theory is there is a bit of a standoff between the airport and ryanair due to the fact they pulled Bristol and lba for winter or else ryanair want to take over the man route and the airport are not providing the usual support as it's an established route.



The airport wouldn't realy know what FR routes are operating during the winter as FR generally only give airports there winter schedule about 2 months in advance unless it is a new route which the airport would know about.

It is a little strange that all UK flights they are operating are not bookable but it may be fixing day/times as ORK - Liverpool also not bookable.

I don't see FR having a base at NOC. They will wait to see if the Dep of Transport accept there plan for DUB, ORK and SNN before they grow further from NOC.

FR are also putting pressure on airports to lower airprot charges further this winter because of fuel costs. Cost NOC be one of these airports?

[NorthernCounties]

Well then whats the new Irish base that we hear rumours of Jamie? :confused: Or is it just that, a rumour.

[Jamie2k9]

Well then whats the new Irish base that we hear rumors of Jamie? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif Or is it just that, a rumour.


I have herd the rumours of it as well but I just don't see FR having a base at NOC yet. It could happon but are FR going to invest so much money in NOC. With BRS and LBA gone I don't see a base happing but I could be wrong. Only time will tell. It will be a very hard winter for FR and it wouldn't surprise me if East-Midlands was dropped.

A few weeks ago FR said in a interview that there next bases would be in Central Europe and possibly North Africa. They must have something planned for next year as they have homes for half of the new aircraft which they will receive.

[EI-BUD]

The only reason that I could see Ryanair wanting/needing a base at NOC would be if it wanted to serve airports on their network that are not bases. I.e. no need for W patterns.

Gatwick may be one such case but I am not sure FR would want to bother following EI onto this route, besides if they wanted to surely they would have done it by now?

The other reason for wanting a base would be to offer very early departures to say business routes, which for NOC not sure this is needed.

While it would be nice to see it I dont forsee it. One things that that is clear is that the relationship between NOC and FR has stood the test of time. And to the credit of NOC airport when they 1st introduced the development fee and FR threatened to leave and they didnt. FR backed down. So NOC is somewhere FR have a big interest in.


EI-BUD

[iwak]

Still nothing bookable on ryanair what's going on?

[Kinocker]

Don't know. Haven't heard any rumours good or bad either. The coming week could be interesting and might throw up some information about what is going on.

[EI-BUD]

Just some info; Next Saturday morning RTE have a radio show dedicated to the 25th anniversary of Knock Airport. I am not sure what time I cant remember but it is one of the following, 8am, 9am or 10am. I will post the details when I can find out online, I think the schedules are not posted too far in advance.

You can access www.rte.ie/radio (http://www.rte.ie/radio) and listen online, this should accessible anywhere on the island of Ireland though not entirely sure if this is accessible in GB or Continental Europe.

EI-BUD

[sawtooth]

Another example of poor London timings and lack of evening service making commuting difficult from NOC below. Airport would be better off with LTN 2xdaily or LGW evening service rather than multiple early flights.

Surely it makes sense for FR to offer 1 extra Friday and Sunday evening service give all the extra workers and weekend traffic it would facilitate?

------

Mayo’s London trip long-haul (http://www.herald.ie/sport/gaelic-football/mayorsquos-london-trip-longhaul-2671705.html)

Mayo GAA team couldn't get a return flight after their football match in Ruislip just south of LTN. So they had to book a coach to GWY, where the only option was RE GWY to WAT and on to Southend on the far east of London, then another coach to NW London arriving 5 hours after leaving home.

[ryan2000]

Knock would really benefit from a service to LHR, AMS or CDG. That would really boost the numbers as I suspect people looking for connectivity are by passing the airport completley.

[sawtooth]

Certainly, AMS would also have inbound tourist potential. Flybe recently put a daily E-jet on INV - AMS which would have a somewhat similar market and most of the UK regionals have that popular
hub connection.

EI might be only one with slots for LHR, and would have to sacrifice elsewhere.

But in the mean time a lot could be done to improve existing schedule, though its down to the airlines prioraties.

[Jamie2k9]

ALC - 69% - 26 flights - 3404 filled out of 4914.
REU - 66% - 26 flights - 3283 filled out of 4914.
LPA -76% - 10 flights - 1443 filled out of 1890.
ACE - 86% - 8 flights - 1305 filled out of 1512.
TFS - 77% - 8 flights - 1170 filled out of 1512.