IRELAND WEST AIRPORT KNOCK [Archive] - Page 4

sawtooth

1st Dec 2011, 10:57

Any word on how FlyBe first month on MAN has gone? 3556 in final month with Baby which was down 27% on 2010. BE had 18 services in October giving a capacity of 2808, so would expect good loads going by previous demand.

EDI has hovered between 76%-50% LF. November figures should tell if there has been any transfer from the ending of RE GWY-EDI route. I've met a few people who chose DUB based on BE prices being more than double FR to EDI on some dates.

Jamie2k9

8th Dec 2011, 19:20

NOC-BVA will be operated from STN base.

mart901

8th Dec 2011, 23:15

cool, that answers that one then Jamie. It seemed a strange choice of route but thinking that Shannon will have no Paris link it will be the only link to Paris from the west coast so it might work well, seasonally anyhow.

sawtooth

9th Dec 2011, 16:28

Izmir in Turkey has been added to the website as a charter with Sunway Holiday from next September. Great route, should be popular though listed as only operating Sep-Nov?

mart901

9th Dec 2011, 17:05

Well spotted, not on Knocks website yet, but prices for holidays available. Funny operating period? Maybe not fully loaded or aiming for winter market, some turkish routes do.

Kinocker

9th Dec 2011, 18:05

Good to see a charter operator increasing routes out of Knock rather than decreasing. Flying to somewhere Ryanair don't go is a good move and is probably essential for any new charter route from Knock to work (although Ryanair's massive hiking of baggage fees this week might make it a more level playing field).

Anyway its good to see another route and another country served out of the airport. Concorde seem to be still marketing Dubrovnik from Knock for 2012 despite Dubrovnik Airlines going bust, so there could be quite a few European countries served next summer between charter and scheduled operations.

PPRuNeUser0176

9th Dec 2011, 19:58

I would question the times as they are the exact same time as the SNN times and what may happon is the flight will be via NOC, It would be stange to start a direct Turkish route in September, it wont be for winter as they don't have any from DUB.

mart901

9th Dec 2011, 20:43

Yeah seems strange, maybe to bolster numbers at the quiet end of the season, but a very short one for knock....

mart901

10th Dec 2011, 17:47

Flights have been loaded onto NOC website, sunday evening flights operated by Onur Air.

iwak

11th Dec 2011, 18:44

Will it be an A320 or 321 ? The good news just keeps coming. Anybody any details on how flybe routes are performing .

PPRuNeUser0176

11th Dec 2011, 21:53

A320, when it starts from NOC its the last flight from SNN that day. Also according to NOC website the DBK flights are moving to a Wednesday next summer would love to know what carrier they will get? Anyone got any ideas.

PPRuNeUser0176

13th Dec 2011, 10:35

Suprised NOC didn't get a route to PMI with the new base over there.

Knock63

13th Dec 2011, 12:21

Any one know why EI was cancelled today at Noc ??

airnoc

13th Dec 2011, 14:09

Any one know why EI was cancelled today at Noc ??

Just announce on midwest radio that to high winds thay noc/lgw is cancel in and out to day

Knock63

13th Dec 2011, 22:05

Thanx for the info, heard it was head on wind up there today ?? Maybe the problem was in Gatwick.:confused:

Jamie2k9

14th Dec 2011, 22:01

October Passengers up 1.8%
November Passengers down 0.3%
JAN - NOV - 617,114 passengers.

Kinocker

15th Dec 2011, 06:15

Decent result for November considering the route losses from last year, less than 100 pax less than 2010, only for a few fog related diversions it would have been 11 straight months of growth.

However, barring a disaster weather wise in the second half of December it looks like the 650,000 pax mark will be passed for the year, that is over 60k more than last year and over 20k more than the previous record year (2008 - 629,000). Considering the economic circumstances and the performances of Cork and Shannon this year that is a particularly good achievement with plenty of promise for similar growth next year.

Jamie2k9

19th Dec 2011, 21:14

Flybe will increase Manchester to daily from start of summer 2012 schedule.

mart901

19th Dec 2011, 21:26

Brilliant, is that to remain a Q400? Any change to EDI?

Jamie2k9

19th Dec 2011, 21:29

EDI still 3 weekly, and MAN remains a Q400.

Aer Lingus LGW flights will now depart NOC at 17.00 daily and arrive at 16.25. NOC and ORK times switched around for next summer.

iwak

19th Dec 2011, 21:51

Great news about man going daily.hopefully won't be long till we see the flybe e195 on stand at knock.

New timing for lgw way better as most of ryanairs London departures are morning or early afternoon. Fr had stn at a 5pm departure from noc for years and loads were always good. It's a much better time for weekend visitors to the west.

Going to be a busy summer at noc by the looks of things

mart901

19th Dec 2011, 22:41

Its all good - whatever happened to NOC management saying they we're close to relaunching transatlantic? That wasn't long ago as I remember.

Mayfly1

20th Dec 2011, 17:30

When did they say that? I don't see it feasible in
the current environment unless continental get tired of Shannon
and wish to try Knock for a season

mart901

20th Dec 2011, 18:08

About the time Michael O'Leary did a press release at Knock, earlier this year. At his more recent one when the new routes we're launched he was advising NOC management not to bother chasing it, the statement came from them. I will see if I can find it.

Kinocker

20th Dec 2011, 22:36

If you look up the airport page on youtube there are interviews with management where they say they are still trying to re-start transatlantic. There were even some rumours that EI might be interested but it certainly wouldn't be in 2012 and to be honest I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if it happened at all in the next few years.

Besides, I'm not sure that direct US flights are what IWAK should be looking at as a main priority, the West of Ireland diaspora as well as business links are far more spread around the world these days compared to the traditional US/UK patterns of business and emigration. I'd still maintain that a good hub connection would be a far more sustainable way to get Knock into these markets. But with FR going to Beauvais, flybe to CDG now seems unlikely and KLM pulling out of the likes of Liverpool would not bode well for them considering Knock. Heathrow remains unrealistic due to slot restrictions so there are no obvious avenues open at the moment it would seem.

PPRuNeUser0176

23rd Dec 2011, 17:46

From NOC Facebook page:

Unfortunately, the Leeds flight didnt have sufficient demand to be sustained year round. We are working hard however to have it restored for summer 2012

Can anyone see Ryanair returning it next summer. Loads were bad during the summer as well.

CabinCrewe

23rd Dec 2011, 18:34

Loads on EDI-NOC pretty dire also ,barely over 50%, will it last ?

JC25

23rd Dec 2011, 18:39

50% loads on a Q400 could be quite OK if the yield is decent.

CabinCrewe

24th Dec 2011, 10:49

mmm prices are in their boots and its not really a high end business route, but we'll never know.

airnoc

24th Dec 2011, 22:22

Hi
What the lgw flight that landed on time and departed at 1831 instead of 1545?

EI-A330-300

24th Dec 2011, 23:49

A replacement aircraft sent from Dublin to operate the flight. Tech fault with the aircraft that arrived from LGW.

Aircraft was repaired and departed back to Dublin at 19.38.

Kinocker

25th Dec 2011, 14:37

Just want to wish a Happy Christmas to everyone who contributes to this thread. I have enjoyed reading all the comments posted in the last year since I discovered the forum. There have been more posts on IWAK here in the last 12 months than in the previous four years combined and it is fantastic that it has been mostly positive news coming out of Knock in 2011.
Hopefully 2012 will prove to be a similarly successful year for the airport.

Best wishes
Kinocker

ryan2000

25th Dec 2011, 19:55

As the very first subscriber to the Knock thread, I also want to add my good wishes to all those who continue to observe Monsignor Horans vision for the airport unfolding.

mart901

28th Dec 2011, 08:41

OVA912 from Farnborough showing on arrivals today, any light could be shed on that one folks??

iwak

30th Dec 2011, 23:28

It's been like that since winter timetable loaded .I think flybe need to make the brand known in the region especially in Galway as it looks like Galway wont reopen in the summer according to press reports. When the Manchester route was launched the flybe rep told local radio that they were extremely happy with the Edinburgh route performance since it started.

I think with a bit more advertising etc Edinburgh will do well and the fact that man has gone daily speaks for itself. Man has always been a good performer from knock.

It would be nice to see a shiney new e175 at knock someday soon.!

ryan2000

31st Dec 2011, 04:59

It's much more difficult for foreign airlines since online booking replaced travel agents. Most Irish people don't look beyond Ryanair and Aerlingus when searching for a flight. Names like Flybe, BMI Baby and Jet2 mean absoloutely nothing to them!

airnoc

31st Dec 2011, 22:02

Happy new and best wishes for 2012 to one and all and thanks for replying to me

EI-A330-300

7th Jan 2012, 13:21

Had planned to use NOC-EDI route in Feb but Flybe are so expensive. Over €60 each way + the €10 departure fee. In total it would cost over €130 and whatever card fees apply. A complete rip off and they wont last very long with fares like that.

sawtooth

7th Jan 2012, 14:06

Had planned to use NOC-EDI route in Feb but Flybe are so expensive.

Hearing the same from a lot of people who wanted to take weekend breaks before Christmas. Some took FR from DUB instead, including a friend who lives a few miles from NOC but said DUB was half the price.

Personally for €50 I'd choose convenience over a 3hr journey any day, and I'm not sure it would work out cheaper when you include petrol, 2 tolls and parking at DUB each way. But that's the perception when your used to seeing FR advertised fares, and at the time of booking most just compare headline prices on the websites without thinking out the alternative costs.

Mayfly1

7th Jan 2012, 18:20

Flybe will not compete with Ryanair fares wise on EDI
and agree passengers now expect by default to see return fares
of 50 euro or less all in on Uk routes.
However when one takes the costs of travel
to/from Dublin airport, tolls , car parking or taxi/transfer busses
etc plus the added one day travel up/down
then a low cost fare ex Dublin may not be
as attractive.
While I would like to see low low fares on all
Routes ex Knock the reality is now with aviation tax increases, fuel, carbon
Taxes and statements from airlines regarding their intent
to focus on yields etc , it's the wide offering now available and ease of use
that I think is where Knock is developing its true potential

Cloud1

7th Jan 2012, 18:40

It is worth considering a few factors when comparing fares. The posters on here have considered some very valid points which are often overlooked such as fuel and parking at the alternative airport. Although you need to be flexible with dates.

If you just want to go to EDI for a leisure trip, a couple of days, why not midweek. Tues to a Fri for example works out at approx 35 euros each way on some dates which I dont think is unreasonable at all. Its a lot cheaper than it is to fly there compared to the cost from my local airport.

EI-A330-300

7th Jan 2012, 19:05

I'm in Athlone (work in Dublin airport) and theres not much difference between both airports. I would have no problem pay 45-50 each way but its over 60 and then the extra 10 euro at the airport.

With APD going up in April I think Flybe will find it very hard to sustain NOC.

Is it any wonder they LF is only 50-60%.

I do like to support other regional airports instead of Dublin but over 130 euro for a return flight to EDI is a joke.

Cloud1

7th Jan 2012, 19:30

But its not those prices for every return trip!! Thats the point I am trying to make really, just because the dates you want to go is expensive doesnt mean Flybe will not sustain the route in the long run, or that they are over priced in general. Take a look throughout a month and see how the fares change....

It is all about convenience. If Joe Bloggs wants to travel to EDI on the 06th February and there is no flexibility the fare may be 130euro on the NOCEDI. So, he decides to go from DUB instead. Thats fine, his decision but he is left with an impression that the flight was expensive end of story.

Then again, he may be happy to travel any time in February he just wants to go over for a few days. He has a look, and he can get it for euro 70 return. He saves hassle in getting to DUB, along with time and money and has bagged himself a nice little deal flying from his local airport. Joe is a happy man and tells all his friends how easy it was to travel from NOC.

Its swings and roundabouts

liffy2A

7th Jan 2012, 20:51

Sorry 330 but its make no sense what so ever. I think people have forgotten your travelling in a plane!! there are 78 seats in an Q 400 if everyone pays the price you want of 30 or 40 euros one way make that up. €2340 or €3120 per sector repectfully.I'll add for a FULL plane! A Q400 would burn approx 1 ton of fuel on the route which could be anything from €700 to €1000 depend on the price/ Fuel heged with that airline. Take the taxes and airport charges out of that you'll see what an airline is left with. Ryanair would never do a route like that out of Knock and realistically there are probably loosing money on PIK EDI routes from Dublin against Aer lingus Regional but they will keep it going to protect there turf. The days of cheap flights are dead. Your car probably burns € 20 to 3 30 euro return from Athlone to Dublin yet people want to fly from Knock to Gran Canaria for € 5 euros, Then wait in a hotel at 80, 90 euros a night where they will probably only sleep. I'm not having a go at you personally,but so many people have an attitude like this and people in the industry are feeling the brunt of it. its a mind set, and people will have to change because change is coming.

sawtooth

7th Jan 2012, 20:56

FlyBE aren't operating NOC-EID for first 3 weeks of Feb, so the high fare listings may be showing 2 flights connecting via MAN. They start again 17th, and just had a look a typical weekend break:

Fri 17th - Sun 19th Feb
BE NOC-EDI-NOC (16:00/14:05) €140.48 +handling
FR DUB-EDI-DUB (06:30/18:25) €131.84 +handling
EI DUB-EDI-DUB (06:40/19:50) €174.98 +handling

So BE Knock:
Flight €140.48
CC Handling €14.00
Airport Fee €10
Parking: €18.00
= €182.48

FR Dublin:
Flight €131.84
CC Handling €12.00
Fuel €30x2 ([email protected] liter)
N4 Toll €2.80 x2
M50 Toll €3.00 x2
Parking €20
= €235.44

So it's not clear cut on price, you can find cheaper deals mid week from DUB but you'd want to be saving at least €70 on the fare to make the drive worth it.

Locker10a

8th Jan 2012, 17:41

So i belive EI are to close gatwick base ! So i persume the Noc service is being operated on a W pattern! But from where? Will a DUB or ORK based aircraft operate the flight ?

Also does anyone know if any FR W pattern flights this summer will be operated by a BRS based aircraft ?

mart901

8th Jan 2012, 18:37

When was that announced? It wouldn't be a huge suprise as it has been wittered down reguarly to only Irish routes.

EI-A330-300

8th Jan 2012, 21:56

Also heard about LGW, Both ORK and NOC from LGW are being done by DUB aircraft next summer with the LGW aircraft only doing DUB. So its hard to say weather it will stay or be dropped.

EI-BUD

8th Jan 2012, 22:01

I wonder with the recent closure of some of the charter airlines at LGW would Aer Lingus go after I.T work ex LGW? Probably not for this forum...

Kinocker

9th Jan 2012, 12:37

654,500 was the final passenger total for NOC in 2011 according to this report:

Knock airport to grow passenger numbers by 9 percent in 2012 | MayoToday.ie - Mayo News Updated Daily (http://www.mayotoday.ie/index.php/browse-mayo-news-by-category/business/item/4082-knock-airport-to-grow-passenger-numbers-by-9-percent-in-2012.html)

If the airport achieves the predicted 9% increase in 2012 it would take the numbers to over 710,000.

Jamie2k9

9th Jan 2012, 23:31

If the airport achieves the predicted 9% increase in 2012 it would take the numbers to over 710,000.

Why have revised the growth for 2012. When Ryanair announced the routes they said passenger numbers would increase to 725,000 next year.

sawtooth

9th Jan 2012, 23:57

They mention economic conditions, so they may be more cautious given continued decline in the domestic economy. Or further cuts to the charter routes expected. Either way better to under promise than make big claims a year out when a few weeks weather or ash disruption can have a big hit on numbers at a small airport as in 09.

Locker10a

10th Jan 2012, 14:30

ohh ok! So LGW will just operate LGW - DUB and over night in Dublin and a DUB crew and aircraft will fly NOC and ORK on a W pattern ! Doesnt make much sense really! Why not have a DUB based crew operate fly DUB - LGW and LGW a/c fly the NOC and ORK route!
Anyway hope fully the NOC route will remain, fingers crossed this isint the begining of the end for EI @ NOC :rolleyes:

DannyKelly22

10th Jan 2012, 14:46

it does make sense, EI want to be the number 1 choice for gatwick, so they want an early morning rotation from gatwick to dublin and vice versa, while the gatwick based aircraft will like rotate as follows,
lgw-dub-lgw-dub-lgw-dub-lgw-dub-lgw

whereas the dublin based aircraft could operate
dub-lgw-ork-lgw-noc-lgw-dub or something similar.

it gives them that all important early morning departure to hit the first wave of travellers which tend to be business pax, so therefore highier yelding pax as they book late.

If it wasn't going to be profitable for them they wouldnt be doing it. Plus they can then use the spare lgw crews on flights from DUB to euro destinations therefore elimination last years shortage of crew,

as well as potentially hiring new crew as advertised on their website.

sawtooth

10th Jan 2012, 19:40

Had planned to use NOC-EDI route in Feb but Flybe are so expensive.

BE must have been listening, EDI flight on previously discussed date now €33 e/w.

Locker10a

10th Jan 2012, 20:34

Well that does make sense but i wonder why EI just dont over night a crew at LGW ? Surly it would be more cost effective . Unless they plan doing something else from gatwick, like charter as mentioned above !

Thanks for the insight , makes things clearer anyway!

Locker10a

11th Jan 2012, 21:03

Ohh didnt know that!! Thanks for the info!!
So im persuming EI are keeping a crew based in LGW to avial of charter opertunities as well as operate DUB .

johnrizzo2000

12th Jan 2012, 17:38

Re: LGW crew

Incorrect infortmationabout LGW crew overnighting in Dublin!

It makes no sense at all to overnight LGW crew in Dublin, EI's largest base. Why would you spend money overnighting crew, paying hotel/expenses, when there are hundreds of crew based there?

LGW base is useful for operating the early morning LGW-DUB service, as it saves them having to overnight crew. Other than that, the base is redundant. Its a matter of 'when', not 'if' Gatwick base is closed. All routes can be operated by Dublin based crews, and the early LGW-DUB flight can be operated by overnighting a crew, with Knock and Cork easily operated on a W pattern

The shortages experienced in Dublin last summer, will be combatted by the current recruitment drive; not by overnighting LGW crew

iwak

12th Jan 2012, 22:50

Whatever way this service is crewed it's crucial that knock keeps this route and particularly aer lingus. It's great that people in the west now have a choice of airline to London.

The route seems to be pretty stable however this route needs publicity as when people think of knock they just think of ryanair.

sawtooth

12th Jan 2012, 23:29

True, rarely see NOC on any of their advertising.

The new Aer Lingus "all in pricing" might make a difference. Perviously fare searches brought back €0-20 fares e/w, only to smack on €70+ in fees and charges and what not at the end which was off putting.

Quick search this evening returned very reasonable €55 "low" and €95 "Plus" (1 bag and seat selection) all in return fares.

sawtooth

16th Jan 2012, 13:52

AirExplore operated 734 charter NOC-TLS (Toulouse) for Connaught rugby team this weekend.

Article quoting airport MD Joe Gilmore with some new info:
WesternPeople: It’s up, up and away at Knock (http://www.westernpeople.ie/news/ojkfeysnkf/)

-Sunway Turkey charter to operate every Sunday between September 16 and November 4 (Very short run, just testing the water?)

- EMA daily from end of March.

- STN will increase to double daily on Friday and Sundays. Finally!, no dates/times given, and not in booking system yet but hopefully late flights, they will be popular.

WesternPeople: It’s up, up and away at Knock (http://www.westernpeople.ie/news/ojkfeysnkf/)

LBIA

16th Jan 2012, 17:50

Also hear that they will be a replacement summer service to Leeds/Bradford to be announced very shortly operating 3x weekly...

PPRuNeUser0176

16th Jan 2012, 18:46

So Flybe to add LBA. If Aer Lingus did drop LGW then would be sure BE would take it over.

Roll to the end

16th Jan 2012, 19:07

I guess you could add BHX to that list too if the baby can't last.

PPRuNeUser0176

16th Jan 2012, 19:09

Ture but I think Ryanair would look at it as well.

Cyrano

16th Jan 2012, 19:14

So Flybe to add LBA. If Aer Lingus did drop LGW then would be sure BE would take it over.

I wouldn't be so sure at all. Gatwick is steadily increasing its charges and is pricing smaller-aircraft operators out. FlyBE is no longer building up its activity in LGW; on the contrary.

Kinocker

16th Jan 2012, 20:04

Sounds like a very good news day for Knock. Stansted twice on Friday on Sunday is a big boost and will be a help to a lot of people working away from their families, hopefully it can continue into the winter so we don't end up with the same reduced opening hours that exist at the moment.

Leeds (3x weekly from May 5th according to the flybe thread) is a surprising one to be honest, I didn't think they'd want to affect their own route to Manchester - I thought maybe Newcastle would give them a bit more geographical separation between the two services. It is good news though and shows that IWAK were serious when they said recently they were trying to restore the route. A 738 wasn't sustainable on that route, hopefully a Q400 will be a better fit.

With all those new services and increased frequencies (LBA would make it 20 scheduled routes - can't be too far behind Shannon in terms of scheduled routes at this stage?) you would expect the pax numbers to go up by more than 10% next year - particularly if they can keep the double Stansteds going into the winter.

sawtooth

17th Jan 2012, 08:22

Leeds confirmed, Q400 in booking system. Demand proven by FR but 738 too large. Press mentions 50,000 of Irish origin in the city so I guess they can make LBA niche work with the smaller aircraft while protecting MAN from others and freeing up capacity.

Curiously looking at the scheduled times it seems to be operating from a NOC based aircraft:

SUN NOC - LBA Dep 16:00, Arr 17:25
SUN LBA - NOC Dep 18:05, Arr 19:30

Presume it's a W but the times don't match up with EDI/MAN and it would seem odd to position aircraft 3xweekly?

Late operating hours would overlap with the FR STN news, fingers crossed.

Kinocker

17th Jan 2012, 12:49

Would be nice to see that flight operate at that time as it would mean a Sunday evening departure to somewhere at around 8pm. Perhaps they will do a Ryanair on it though and change the times closer to the start date.

Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays are looking particularly busy at Knock this summer.

EI-A330-300

18th Jan 2012, 13:50

Bumper Summer Ahead For Knock as Ryanair Announces Record Advance? (http://www.ryanair.com/ie/news/bumper-summer-ahead-for-knock-as-ryanair-announces-record-advance-sales-to-the-sun)

I would question the timing of the news.

On Monday it was announced that all airports would stay under the DAA, On Tuesday it was announced that none of the 28 new B737 would be based in Ireland and this today. Its no suprise bookings are up on last yaer but this is just PR for FR aginst the DAA and Dep of Transport.

iwak

18th Jan 2012, 14:57

What is the story with flybe times to lba I presume they are a w from man or edi. No times up on noc website and no adjustments on timings from man and edi on flybe website.

Great news about fri & sun eve flights to stn !

The good news just keeps coming for knock

mart901

18th Jan 2012, 15:21

Looks like either a timetable change for MAN or EDI or another route on its way yet to be announced?

sawtooth

18th Jan 2012, 15:31

Tuesdays, Thursdays and Sundays are looking particularly busy at Knock this summer.

I took a look at the schedules, 26 scheduled movements Tue/Thu, Monday lowest at 16. To give an indication of weekly movements:

FR 48 189
BE 13 78
EI 7 174
WW 5 148
LH 1 90
Ch 3 180 (estimate based on mixed aircraft)

About 25350 average weekly scheduled capacity for Summer 2012:

Overall it doesn't look a lot busier than last year despite the new routes. Some charters gone, 2 BE routes are replacements, and some FR sun frequencies down.

Bumper Summer Ahead For Knock as Ryanair Announces Record Advance

Major Failte Ireland marketing campaign will have helped. Must be a first to have a Ryanair press release praise a politican!

PPRuNeUser0176

18th Jan 2012, 20:20

FR 48 189
BE 13 76
EI 7 178
WW 5 138
LH 1 90
Cht 3~ 189

About 25300 total weekly scheduled capacity for Summer 2012:

If those are the seat numbers besife the airlines?

BE almost certain its 78 seats
EI is 174

And could you explain the charters, not 3 weekly and all not B737-800.

sawtooth

18th Jan 2012, 22:46

And could you explain the charters

Just an estimate based on web search:

ACE -----s- (Air Europa likely 180 seat 738) Jun-Sep
DBV --w---- (no airline listed) Jun-Oct
ADB ------s (Onur Air likely 180 seat 320) Sep-Nov
DBV/LIS/LDE/XRY on different dates (Joe Walsh tour pilgrimage charters)

3 a week looks about average.

PPRuNeUser0176

22nd Jan 2012, 00:37

Just after looking at the airports facebook page and Flybe were looking for €1,300 yes you are not seeing things! for 2 adults and 2 children for return to EDI.

iwak

22nd Jan 2012, 00:47

I would say that was pricing the edi flight via Manchester which tends to be way more expensive than the direct routing.

I know somebody who is from Dublin and istravelling from knock to Tenerife in march and ryanair were 500 cheaper for 4people than aerlingus were from Dublin. It was even way cheaper than ryanair from dub.

Jamie2k9

22nd Jan 2012, 10:38

I know somebody who is from Dublin and istravelling from knock to Tenerife in march and ryanair were 500 cheaper for 4people than aerlingus were from Dublin. It was even way cheaper than ryanair from dub.

Does that include the €10 to the airport and cost of parking, fuel etc.

NOC will always be cheeper than DUB as you average person near DUB will not look at any other airport and airlines know this and they can get more money out of people.

brian_dromey

22nd Jan 2012, 11:03

IME price difference is not such a big deal when there is just one traveller. €12-20 is not going to make much difference, parking in one airport Vs travelling to/from that airport has a much higher weighting, as do timings. So at the end of the day there may not be much in it. When one is travelling with a family of 4, any savings will quickly mount up and become much harder to ignore. More inconvenient travel times or travel to/from the airport are harder to justify, especially in times like these.

All of that said, one airline being cheaper than another, on a given route, on a given day is not indicative of anything. As always, it pays to shop around.

Mayfly1

22nd Jan 2012, 12:05

Overall my experience is that Ryanair from
Knock offer better value despite knock having
to charge the Dev fee to fund the airport etc.
Clearly the overall costs for airlines to operate
from there is lower compared to the public sector run
state airports and passengers see the benefit.
Everyone wins with knocks position , the region is getting
more and more choice with over 20 destinations
easy to use and low costs for the most part.
Also the continued pax growth speaks for itself and don't forget it's also
a big employer in the area . If the other airports had to run on the same
basis then it would ensure the other state owned
airports would have to Faust their own way instead of making the massive
losses they make

PPRuNeUser0176

22nd Jan 2012, 13:25

Airlines operating from NOC charge €24.99 in taxes and charges and the €10 at the airport. Total taxes and charges for passengers are €34.99. DUB have €34.89 in total taxes and charges. DUB will always have better yeild on routes than NOC but its cheeper to operate from NOC but airlines make more profit from DUB so why not pay more to operate there.

On the tiopic of Dev fee they have made it better know on the website by making it larger and people can see it a little better. By right it should be under the Book scheduled/charter flights section.

If the other airports had to run on the same
basis then it would ensure the other state owned
airports would have to Faust their own way instead of making the massive
losses they make

Your forgetting that NOC is getting money from the Gov where DAA airprots are not so if that was stopped which it will be reduced or scrapped in 2014 then NOC would have no choise to increase charges and when that happons then we will see what Ryanair do.

CabinCrewe

22nd Jan 2012, 14:14

Can't really get a feel for what routes do well from NOC, is it mainly leisure or domestic/UK ? certainly some of the loads don't look great.

CONAIR11

22nd Jan 2012, 15:27

2012 could well be NOCs greatest year in terme of traffic. Its heard to see where new routes can come from thereafter and they will do well to hold on to what they now have. If they loose their state funding then this would cetainly dilute Ryanairs presence to the benifit of SNN where I believe there is a slight imbalance in terms of population v services at the moment. While Enda is in Power though the miracle may continue.

sawtooth

22nd Jan 2012, 16:41

is it mainly leisure or domestic/UK ?

Taken from the airports advertising stats:
http://www.irelandwestairport.com/airportguide/documents/2012AdvertisingOpportunities-final_000.pdf

45% VFR
35% Holiday
10% Work
5% Business
5% Other

Business market has never really been targeted with mostly single mid day flights to London. Would have thought 2012 was the ideal opportunity to do so given the suspension of GWY-LTN double daily services and so many westerners working in the UK.

3 busiest routes STN, LTN, LPL. 3 top holiday routes were FAO, ALC, REU in 2011 according to available CSO stats.

Ireland West Airport Knock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_West_Airport_Knock#cite_note-stats-17)

Mayfly1

22nd Jan 2012, 20:31

EI-EIDW Knock received minimal operational
support from government, c€0.5m annually
to subvent losses.
How do you make out the DAA airports receive nothing from the
government?
Take Shannon for example with losses of €25m for
the past 3 years what's keeping it open? Subvention directly
from Dublin airport which is owned by us the taxpayer.
If Shannon was break even and didn't need all these millions each year
to cover these massive losses then maybe the DAA would return this millions to the government and us the taxpayer?
Cork is even in a worse state with massive losses so don't tell me the DAA airports get no money from the state , the reality is that they are costing the state and us the tax paters tens of millions each year .
Also have you considered the massive security costs in Shannon for the troop traffic recently estimated at almost €3.5m a year? And also the costs of ATC to keep the aiport open 24 hours a day with so few planes flying?

brian_dromey

22nd Jan 2012, 21:20

ORK and SNN are subsidised by the profitable operations at DUB, the DAA does not revive any monies directly from the exchequer. FYI, ORK is said to be 'operationally' profitable, whatever that means. Presumably if it weren't for the debt ORK would make money, which is a bit of a ridiculous statement.

PPRuNeUser0176

22nd Jan 2012, 22:13

And also the costs of ATC to keep the aiport open 24 hours a day with so few planes flying?

SNN ATC over sees all US flights that operate over Ireland and there is quiet a lot and it has to stay open 24 hours as a result.

DAA is a Plc company, they return 12.5% of there profits to the Gov yearly like all other business do. If NOC makes a profit in 2011 should they return the money they recived from the tax payer??

ORK and SNN are subsidised by the profitable operations at DUB, the DAA does not revive any monies directly from the exchequer. FYI, ORK is said to be 'operationally' profitable, whatever that means. Presumably if it weren't for the debt ORK would make money

Yes if there was no debt ORK is making money.

sawtooth

22nd Jan 2012, 22:45

EI-EIDWIf NOC makes a profit in 2011 should they return the money they recived from the tax payer??

If NOC make a profit they do not receive funding under the Regional Airports Operational Expenditure (OPEX) Subvention Scheme, as was the case in 2006, 2007, 2008.

They took a revenue hit in 2009/10 like other airports which meant they required OPEX to break even. But if they could make a profit with a handful of routes in 06-08 then I'd imagine they can do so again with 25+ routes and increased throughput, especially having reduced their cost base by over 20% last year.

ryan2000

22nd Jan 2012, 23:03

Cork is losing money primarily due to the massive investment it received in 2004/6 for the new terminal. Shanon is a basket case due to the various work practices that grew up there over the last half century. Knock is only viable due to the virtual Single Shift opening hours and due to some imaginative thinking. How can Cork justify opening 24 hours a day when there is only one Movement between Midnight and 0600? Shannon isn't much different most nights of the week.

sawtooth

22nd Jan 2012, 23:51

EI-EIDW
Your forgetting that NOC is getting money from the Gov where DAA airports are not

I don't want to perpetuate another apples vs oranges bunfight, but I don't think it's transparent to say DAA airports receive no state support.

Liam Scollan put forward a list of indirect benefits a couple of years back, the accuracy of which I can't verify, but perhaps you could illuminate us?

- ATC services and training from IAA worth over €2.5m per airport p/a
- State-guaranteed loans for capital investment c.€250m p/a
- Government funding support to fight legal battles
- State bodies like Bus Éireann supplying customers
- State tourism marketing funding
- US CBP facilities at Shannon
- Shannon development company funding
- Government pressure on airlines to introduce services (SNN-LHR/CDG)
- Commission for Aviation Regulation also imposed charges on regionals but it's remit only extends to the DAA.

Ireland West Airport - why exclude State airports from public spending cuts? - Airport News (http://www.airportnews.aero/airline/28777/59/Ireland-West-Airport---why-exclude-State-airports-from-public-spending-cuts)

PPRuNeUser0176

23rd Jan 2012, 09:21

Still not state funding. Nco recived millions for at new landing system or something to do with da runway. The daa. Didnt cme up with uspc so u cant say they reciced money

Angry Rebel

23rd Jan 2012, 09:25

@EI-EIDW

T/a ATC is done by the IAA - a separate body to the DAA. They stay open for transatlantic traffic regardless of what is happening operationally at SNN. They could close and it makes no difference to t/a ATC.

You are right DAA are a plc, but they are not listed on any stock exchange, they are owned 100% by a shareholder. That shareholder is the Government, which is entitled to a dividend. Dividends are determined by profit and/or free cash. If Shannon (or indeed Cork) are consuming cash to cover losses, that reduces the cash available to pay a dividend.

ericlday

23rd Jan 2012, 09:25

Obviously spell check not working for you then !!!

Mayfly1

23rd Jan 2012, 15:42

Angry Rebel-thanks for that clarification...so what you are saying is that if SHN and Cork were profitable they not be a drain on the main DAA finances and then that allow a significant divident probably equal to the millions they are losing each year to be paid back to the government and effectively us the tax payer?

So as a result of their current big losses that are being underwritten by the DAA, these monies are effectively monies that are lost to the government ? And as such these loss making airports are a major drain on public finances as a result of dividends foregone....
Clearly therefore not in some vested interest group's views to put it in these start terms..

Mayfly1

24th Jan 2012, 08:32

In today's Star;

MILITARY munitions were transported through Shannon Airport on almost 1,200 planes during 2011, Transport Minister Leo Varadkar has confirmed. Mr Varadkar also said "under 250,000" US troops transited through Shannon last year. The figures indicate that an average of 600 foreign troops carrying weapons passed through Shannon every day last year.

Even with all this additional business this State run airport still has €25 million
in losses over the last 3 years where would the airport be if this business went elsewhere?

Kinocker

24th Jan 2012, 12:25

Does Shannon's 1.6 million pax figure include military passengers, would the total only be 1.35 million without them or is the 1.6 million figure just civil aviation?

Mayfly1

24th Jan 2012, 17:11

It includes all traffic including military

Knock63

3rd Feb 2012, 18:38

I hear R.T.E. were filming up there today, something to do with 'Operation Transformation'

iwak

4th Feb 2012, 00:17

Leeds times are still not making sense !

No sign of the extra fri and sun stn flights either.

Can anyone shed any light !

PPRuNeUser0176

7th Feb 2012, 15:38

Let the war begin with Bmibaby and Ryanair at BHX and EMA.

Bmibaby announcd that BHX will increase from 4 to 6 weekly from April.

Tweeted by Airport

Great news as bmibaby increases capacity on Birmingham service for summer season with 6 weekly flights from April onwards

On sale daily except Sat.

Kinocker

7th Feb 2012, 18:53

So that's now 13 weekly flights to/from the midlands, 12 of them run mid afternoon. Good for passenger numbers in the short term but almost certainly unsustainable in the longer term.

If you were bmibaby and you decided to compete then surely you'd consider competing based on timings or something, early on Mondays and Tuesdays and late on Fridays and Sundays. Throwing all the flights on mid afternoon seems senseless.

iwak

13th Feb 2012, 19:28

Leeds flight times making sense now .it is operating on a w pattern from Manchester.flight times on man have been altered to facilitate this .I think the late sun evening dep from knock to man will be well received.

Summer 12 will be a busy one for flybe with 13 weekly departures.

Kinocker

13th Feb 2012, 20:42

Nice to see an 8pm departure from Knock alright, its something that most airports would take for granted but that Knock doesn't often have in the schedule.

Hopefully there will be something similar to London soon. I think the Manchester timing is a great idea and while BE will struggle to match FR into Liverpool in terms of price, this timing will give them a real advantage. Its a pity EI haven't done something similar to Gatwick to really put it up to FR on the London routes.

Now if only BE would consider something similar to Edinburgh, the RE Friday and Sunday flights to Galway were apparently getting great loads right up to the end due to their late evening timings...

iwak

13th Feb 2012, 20:53

Aer lingus will be departing knock at 5pm to lgw each day for summer 12 which will spread the 3 London routes across the day.

Edi will be operating in late afternoons for the summer around the 4pm mark on tues/fri/sun.

PPRuNeUser0176

13th Feb 2012, 23:42

While on the topic of BE times. The Saturday MAN flights will be arriving at 08.15 and departing at 08.40.

Kinocker

17th Feb 2012, 12:30

Good to see Edinburgh back in the schedules today. Just six weeks or so now until things really get going for the year with all the new and returning routes kicking off en masse at the end of March.

EI-A330-300

19th Feb 2012, 13:42

I see a new business lounge will be opening at the airprot in a few weeks and free Wi-fi for 2012. I don't think many business passengers will be using the airport...

Sikpupi

19th Feb 2012, 15:03

Who charges for Wifi these days????

iwak

19th Feb 2012, 18:54

Where is this lounge going to be situated. It's quite tight on space in departures

sawtooth

19th Feb 2012, 20:12

Who charges for Wifi these days????

Most Irish airports do, DUB is trailing a free service for a month. It's been free at NOC for years and something a lot of people comment on so nothing new here.

Where is this lounge going to be situated. It's quite tight on space in departures

It's already there, it was built as part of the terminal extension, entrance next to the currency exchange booth in the lounge. Not sure how they plan using it though, I could see some paying for a quiet place to work before flights given the departures lounge is fairly cramped.

Jack1985

19th Feb 2012, 21:28

Only Airport i've used with free wifi is Cork Airport, its been available since 2007 and they've never charged for it. :ok:

I don't think many business passengers will be using the airport...

Of Course their will. CEO's and investors dont just fly into Dublin, Cork or Shannon there's been plenty of Private Jets in and out of Knock in recent times, also theres plenty of Business pax use Aer Lingus' London-Knock service and other services to/from the airport.

840

20th Feb 2012, 08:29

You'll probably find that there are decent numbers doing Knock-London every week who will qualify for access through the Aer Lingus Gold Circle programme. Although their frequent flyer programme is a bit more complicated, there will also be a number of Flybe passengers who qualify. Most people in lounges are there because of frequent flyer status, not because they are travelling in Business Class.

Fly_bill

20th Feb 2012, 21:41

Business Lounge is currently been constructed in departures beside boarding area 3. The old location where it originally was planned for (beside currency exchange) has been knocked and catering area extended. Planned to open in March. Also a new smoking area in departures opening shortly

EI-A330-300

22nd Feb 2012, 21:18

Nice to see an 8pm departure from Knock alright, its something that most airports would take for granted but that Knock doesn't often have in the schedule.

MAN flight is now schduled to arrive at 13.35 and depart at 17.55 but LBA has not being changed to the new times yet. What are the chances the airport wouldn't say open for the 8 pm departure?

Kinocker

22nd Feb 2012, 21:56

Its definitely possible. It also suggets that the double daily Stansted on Fridays and Sundays that was rumoured may be less likely to happen if they're planning on closing the airport earlier than previously thought.

Kinocker

23rd Feb 2012, 16:13

31,868 passengers in Jan 2012, 700 more than 12 months previously. An increase of 2.2% on 2011 and over 20% up on 2010.

EI-A330-300

4th Mar 2012, 21:52

Passengers at NOC for JAN,FEB are up 16% compared to same period in 2011.

Used BE to EDI recently and passenger numbers on the flights were very poor. 22 out and 29 back.

iwak

4th Mar 2012, 22:13

The route only restarted in mid January so I'd say this had an effect pax numbers. I would say it will be march before load factors pick up.

How did you find flybe service?

EI-A330-300

4th Mar 2012, 22:34

Over all the service was great from Flybe. It took just about an hour for the aircraft to be turned around in NOC, I got the impression that once a Ryanair flight lands everything stops for BE, EI etc and they all attend FR so they can achive there quick turnaround. The same on my returm FR flight landed after ours but FR pax got there bags before us.

If this happens in the summer time I don't think LH will be to pleased as they like to have there flights on time and they would expect a high level of service.

I also asked a member of staff about the extra STN flights and they said it would most lightly not be until November before they start if they do.

I will be using BE again in the summer to either MAN or LBA as I have relations and the distance from both airports is more less the same. Thinking LBA as its a new route and it needs to be supported more than MAN.

iwak

4th Mar 2012, 22:49

Good to hear the service was good . I think they need to advertise the route as a weekend break to the local Market. The Galway edi route was popular and performed well so there's no reason why noc can't fill a 3 wkly service.

Ryanair always get good marketing about new routes but ww,ei and flybe need extra marketing and promotion to create more awareness. Ryanair will always do well as they are the first website people go to when looking for a cheap flight.

I think on the ground marketing / roadshows in the likes of Galway ,Sligo ,Roscommon, , castlebar and westport is what the routes need and give an incentive like reduced parking at certain times of year to boost numbers.

On the ground talking to your Market telling them what's available and the advantages of noc would definitely be beneficial in stimulating the local Market.

EI-A330-300

4th Mar 2012, 22:55

I agree about the marketing.

BE and WAT airport are both doing a lot of marketing of the new BHX route on radio, papers etc but I have not read or heard an add other than on NOC website, thats not to say there has being none done.

Jamie2k9

5th Mar 2012, 00:18

NOC - EMA will now be 5 weekly for summer instead of daily. Tues and Fri flights dropped.

Kinocker

5th Mar 2012, 12:11

Passengers at NOC for JAN,FEB are up 16% compared to same period in 2011.

That rise is relative to 2010, not 2011. Up 1.1% overall on 2011 for January(+2.2%) and Febuary(+0.2%). There won't be any serious growth until the new routes start and show up in the April figures. After that there is the potential for another record breaking summer.

NOC - EMA will now be 5 weekly for summer instead of daily. Tues and Fri flights dropped.

Not surprised that they've cut back, but surprised that they've dropped the Friday service. Generally Ryanair tend to win against other airlines on routes to destinations near each other but bmibaby took them last year with their Birmingham service and have expanded it this year as a result. Final route figures for 2011 are now on Wikipedia with the top six routes all showing an increase on 2010.

Ireland West Airport Knock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland_West_Airport_Knock)

Edinburgh only the 15th most popular route in 2011 so no surprise that its loads are weak in February. Still think it will do fine for the rest of the year, there isn't much competition now that GWY has finished up. I sure as hell won't be driving to/from Dublin to save a few quid anyway, total false economy.

iwak

14th Mar 2012, 18:45

Good to see Bristol back on the boards this week presumably started early for those heading to Cheltenham .

Any news on how seats are selling on the new European routes?

Is the business lounge nearly ready?

Thanks

sawtooth

14th Mar 2012, 19:56

Good to see Bristol back on the boards this week presumably started early for those heading to Cheltenham.

I tried booking BRS several times this year but the flights weren't loaded until very late, a lot going to Cheltenham would have missed out. :*

LGW showing some growth, FEB12 + 46% in CAA stats. Hopefully more growth on UK routes given increased national marketing and better economy.

---

Any news on how seats are selling on the new European routes?

No info on the Euro routes, I've notices fares are now very low in April compared to when launched. Airport have been visiting travel trade events in Germany along with Tourism Ireland who have had targeted campaigns running in the Eurporan countries this year.

Sadly there doesn't seem to be any effort to support these routes on this side, no new tourism tours/attractions, paltry tourist information, same useless bus timetable.

Ryanair press release earlier in the year saying that they had record bookings on outbound sun routes though ...

record advance bookings on its summer sun routes from Knock Airport, which are 20% up on 2010 and look set to deliver a bumper year for Ireland West Airport, with Ryanair expecting to grow to 500,000 passengers at Knock in 2012

NorthernCounties

14th Mar 2012, 20:32

Sadly there doesn't seem to be any effort to support these routes on this side, no new tourism tours/attractions, paltry tourist information, same useless bus timetable.

I'd say this is a good thing, as there's enough routes which will carry Irish holiday makers to leisure destinations, which is great for the Spanish and Portuguese economies, but doesn't really help the Western Ireland.

If the German routes can be supported mostly through passengers originating in Germany, it'll be great for the Western Economy. Get the tourists (tourist's wallets) in! :ok:

airnoc

14th Mar 2012, 22:48

Hi all
Just done a quick tot on 2011 pax number on wiki page and there is a differance of 21,277 pax.

Is this made up with the Dublin p.s.o flight which ended in July and Lourdes as well?

EI-A330-300

14th Mar 2012, 23:31

A very good month for EI indeed, STN and LTN both dropped a little. To date we have all talked about FR added a few extra STN but nobody has considered EI, with numbers like this for Feb I think they can't be ruled out of adding a few extra flights.

iwak

14th Mar 2012, 23:54

I think the lgw route was 4 wkly up to a certain point in feb last year then reverted to daily .

The route is always roughly 2000 pax less than stn or ltn over the winter months however ei must be making money as it's bookable daily again for next winter.

All routes apart from fr need up weighted marketing big time as I've said before a lot of people in the west just think it's fr at noc as they get the most press coverage when it comes to route expansion at the airport.

The ramp is going to be busy for summer 2012:

Kinocker

15th Mar 2012, 13:46

Airnoc the figures on wiki are just the 15 busiest routes, so the total you calculated wouldn't have included the Ryanair service to Gran Canaria, Aer Arann to Dublin, the charters to Lourdes, Dubrovnik and Sumburgh and some other ad hoc flights.

Looking forward to the start of the summer season, will be very interesting to see how the French, German and Italian routes do.

iwak

20th Mar 2012, 23:07

Flybe still juggling with noc schedules .edi aircraft will now operate sunday Leeds rotation meaning the edi flight departs edi at 12.15 which is not great if your taking a weekend break.

CabinCrewe

20th Mar 2012, 23:40

Oh dear, the loads on EDI-NOC were bad enough already. Is it really then just being used as a positioner ?

Jamie2k9

21st Mar 2012, 15:40

Hahn will be reduced to 2 weekly for the month of May. Fares for all 4 new rew routes are very low and I would say if bookings don't increase there will be a further reduction to hahn.

EI-A330-300

21st Mar 2012, 20:34

feb passengers up 0.2%.

EI-A330-300

22nd Mar 2012, 23:29

Have just booked return flights to GRO for 2 in April at a total cost of €20. Yesterday the same dates were €28.

Kinocker

23rd Mar 2012, 16:36

Great bargains to be had on the new Ryanair routes at the moment alright. Unfortunately that is a sign that they are probably not selling too well as of yet. Hopefully they are given a chance to develop and not just pulled at the first sign of trouble.

sawtooth

23rd Mar 2012, 18:13

Being realistic it's a big ask to fill 3x in the first weeks of inbound routes and no previous market (other than Lufthansa BA who apparently had 5 weekly summer charter routes back in the late 90s).

Remember DUS is also being served by LH with regional connections. It goes up to 3x from June. KIR-HHN is only 4x with a well established market and bigger / better promoted tourism product. HHN is also year round with BVA according to the airport wiki, is this correct?

Edit -
Good news ...The Minister for Tourism has just announced Western Region Tourism Marketing Programme

The Western Development Commission (WDC) and regional Local Authorities are partnering with Fáilte Ireland and Tourism Ireland on establishing the most significant international tourism marketing campaign ever for the Western Region. Taking place across Germany, France, Italy and England, the campaign aims to capitalise on the recently announced new air routes into Ireland West Airport Knock. The move is expected to provide a considerable boost to tourism businesses in the West and North West by bringing international tourists directly into the area.

Mayfly1

24th Mar 2012, 22:46

Agree, but it about time the local authorities, WDC and tourism bodies get behind the airport and the new routes, it's they and the region that they serve that will benefit more than the airport.....better late than never for this initiative , but it needs to be just the start of a more focussed regional marketing programme that runs continously and not just a once off initiative

Kinocker

26th Mar 2012, 22:45

Departures board for tomorrow on the website is looking good. Hopefully there will be plenty of local publicity for the launch of the Beauvais and Hahn routes in the next few days to help with bookings.

sawtooth

27th Mar 2012, 15:21

Summer schedule launched today, arrivals greeted with Irish Coffees and traditional music, and unusually for March - 20 degree sunshine!

Some of the management have been giving interviews this week to Mayo and Galway radio shows...

- 37% of outbound passengers were first time users in 2011, up 10%
- Still hopeful of evening STN service in "summer"
- LHR morning hub connection next goal, EI cited as the only obvious candidate
- AGP "haven't been able to secure"
- Discussing GLA service with carrier
- TA - "At least a Summer scheduled service viable in the next 2-3 years", but the US market remains challenging, and airport "cautious" in securing the right airline given the experience with the previous carrier.
- "Possible" ADF could be reduced in the future if they can grow to a level where they can offset the income.

CabinCrewe

27th Mar 2012, 15:33

NOC would work from GLA if it was the right carrier, frequency and aircraft- the last half hearted attempts were doomed and overkill (BMiB 737 !!??) from the outset. A Flybe Loganair Saab would be perfect. Though if current Flybe EDI loads are anything to go by... albeit on a larger Dash.

Kinocker

27th Mar 2012, 18:47

Interesting stuff from the interviews there Sawtooth

- Still hopeful of evening STN service in "summer"

Well worth a shot in the peak July and August months at least if there is an aircraft available. Would be interesting to see if airport users would be willing to pay a little extra to use a peak hours service, I would have thought that to London the answer would be yes.

- LHR morning hub connection next goal, EI cited as the only obvious candidate

Hard to see this one happening to be honest. Had hoped for a flybe to CDG as a hub connection but Ryanair to Beauvais has probably scuppered that, can't see two Paris routes working (one might prove a struggle).

- AGP "haven't been able to secure"

Would seem like a good charter route as there is no direct competition, presumably Ryanair feel they have enough sun capacity from Knock for now, they're probably right.

- Discussing GLA service with carrier

EIR perhaps - they seem interested in Knock judging by rumours regarding previous Birmingham plans ? Can't imagine flybe doing both GLA and EDI. To be honest I don't think the market exists for routes from both airports - I could be wrong and would really like to be but I think it might be best if it is just left at one Scottish route. flybe haven't even scheduled a summer frequency increase this year, which I think says a lot.

- TA - "At least a Summer scheduled service viable in the next 2-3 years", but the US market remains challenging, and airport "cautious" in securing the right airline given the experience with the previous carrier.

Who would take this on at the moment? EI - wrong aircraft, United and Delta are at Shannon. US perhaps? The best hope of this ever happening again would probably be EI narrowbody NEOs that could make the distance to Boston and NY, but that won't be for a few years at least.

- "Possible" ADF could be reduced in the future if they can grow to a level where they can offset the income.

Would probably take 1m pax per annum to be able to drop the charge - a long way off.

PPRuNeUser0176

27th Mar 2012, 20:00

. US perhaps?

They could only do PHL and that was dropped form SNN so would rule them out and agree with you LHR point.

Anyone have any info about which if any of the 4 new routes will operate all year with FR.

Kinocker

28th Mar 2012, 12:48

Anyone have any info about which if any of the 4 new routes will operate all year with FR.

I would guess it is undecided and will depend on how Hahn and Beauvais go over the summer. Bergamo and Girona are almost certainly seasonal routes. Gran Can was originally meant to be year-round but was switched to seasonal when it was realised that 3 winter Canary sun routes was too much. We probably won't know about these routes until the winter schedules are released in the coming months.

I see EI are looking to obtain extra Heathrow slots from BMI. Still a long shot for Knock though.

Jamie2k9

29th Mar 2012, 00:12

Travel Serivce Airlines will replace Aer Europa on chartered NOC-ACE.

ACE-NOC 11.35-15.55
NOC-ACE 16.50-21.40

EI-A330-300

1st Apr 2012, 14:23

This was tweeted by the airprot:

"Major US carrier to announce New York JFK and Boston Logan transatlantic services from Ireland west airport Knock shortly

Kinocker

1st Apr 2012, 14:36

It's after midday...

cuthere

1st Apr 2012, 14:52

EI-A330-300 This was tweeted by the airprot:

Quote:
"Major US carrier to announce New York JFK and Boston Logan transatlantic services from Ireland west airport Knock shortly

April 1st hopefully doesn't have anything to do with the above.

PPRuNeUser0176

1st Apr 2012, 15:21

As it from the airprot CEO would how joke about somthing like this?

cuthere

1st Apr 2012, 15:30

Indeed. It would seem silly, but why make an announcement like this on a Sunday?

Hopefully the date is just coincidence. It'd be stunningly good news for NOC, but when BFS struggles (at times) to support a Newark service, one has to question the likelihood of it being anything other than a poor gag.

dog in park

1st Apr 2012, 15:50

APD ! and a big shrine.

CONAIR11

1st Apr 2012, 17:03

I've heard better windups in the playground of a creche.

dochealth

1st Apr 2012, 20:13

Flew BE to LBA and return last week.

22 pax out and 26 pax back

Great service in nice clean a/c... hope it builds up to decent load factor over summer.

DH

Mayfly1

1st Apr 2012, 22:54

Let's be realistic this is highly unlightly in the current difficult climate especially on the north Atlantic. Re the tweeting I see it certainly has people talking about the airport and as they say it April fools day so I wouldn't read too much into anything today. Unless the airport releases a formal media statement tomorrow then my guess it's just the airport and CEO having a bit of fun on our account!
At least they have a sence of humour and we have to have the same

sawtooth

2nd Apr 2012, 10:39

I see Europecar are offering a pre booked secure longterm parking facility now at their hire building next to the the airtport gates. Website quoting €8 p/d, €35 for 7 days compared to the airports €9 p/d rate.

Knock Airport Car Parking | Cheap Car Parking at Knock Airport (http://www.knockairportcarparking.com/)

NOC often state how competitive their rates are compared to DAA airports, but never mention the private alternatives available at those, good to see some competition at NOC.

EI-A330-300

4th Apr 2012, 16:34

Liverpool reduced form 7 to 6 weekly for a few weeks in May.

mart901

5th Apr 2012, 07:18

Looking at the dep/arr page on the website is a far cry from the barren wilderness of a few flights a day it used to be. Does anyone know how well the new european routes are doing?

Kinocker

5th Apr 2012, 12:04

Yes it is really good to see. Although the small apron will come under pressure when there are delays at certain times with scheduling like this...

http://www.irelandwestairport.com/fidsnet/images/tinytrans.gifhttp://www.irelandwestairport.com/fidsnet/logos/60x19/jpg/ryr.jpg FR5721 14:40 FRANKFURT - HAHN

http://www.irelandwestairport.com/fidsnet/images/tinytrans.gifhttp://www.irelandwestairport.com/fidsnet/logos/60x19/jpg/bee.jpg BE398 15:00 LEEDS/BRADFORD

http://www.irelandwestairport.com/fidsnet/logos/60x19/jpg/bmi.jpg WW1091 15:20 BIRMINGHAM

http://www.irelandwestairport.com/fidsnet/images/tinytrans.gifhttp://www.irelandwestairport.com/fidsnet/logos/60x19/jpg/ryr.jpg FR1742 15:25 EAST MIDLANDS

...it doesn't leave a lot of time to avoid one delay having a knock on effect onto other flights, especially as Knock tends to cater for an unusually high percentage of passengers with disabilities and special needs. Still a lot better than tumbleweed blowing around the place though!

iwak

8th Apr 2012, 23:36

Anybody any idea how flybe routes are performing ?

Fares seem fairly low on new euro routes but I suppose it's early days yet .

Airport management have said they hope to be in a position to announce a new glasgow route at the end of the year. I reckon a gla and edi route would be overkill. I presume it's either flybe,loganair or ei regional that would operate the route.

Jamie2k9

14th Apr 2012, 23:16

NOC-Girona had a LF of 36% for the 6 flights in March.

iwak

14th Apr 2012, 23:32

Well I was at the airport last Tuesday and well over 100 arrived and departed on the girona flight and over 140 arrived on the Hahn flight reported by the marketing manager on local radio during the wk.

Jamie2k9

14th Apr 2012, 23:35

I think GRO will do the best in yeild and passengers but you need to remenber that its Easter Hoildays and Girona and Milan are bound to do very well with Irish Passengers anyway.

sawtooth

16th Apr 2012, 17:59

I think GRO will do the best in yeild and passengers but you need to remenber that its Easter Hoildays and Girona and Milan are bound to do very well with Irish Passengers anyway.

I took one of the first BGY flights, just over 50 each way, lovely city by the way and a good base to visit Verona, Lake Garda/Como & Milan. One family onboard had come from west Cork!

March UK CAA figures show some growth:
LGW 6058 +20%
BHX 3563 +19%
LPL 7088 +23%

MAN 1702 – 42% (SNN-MAN +34%)
MAN could be down to FlyBe lower aircraft capacity, but brand awareness and cost must be a factor, looking at a weekend in June FR LPL headline fare is €36 return, BE MAN €119. Extra frequency at weekends could help make BE more attractive.

Jack1985

16th Apr 2012, 18:39

One family onboard had come from west Cork!

Jesus do people even think of supporting their own airports anymore? :ugh:

iwak

17th Apr 2012, 21:33

Sawtooth

Flew to bergamo last year from dub heading to lake Garda. One of The better ryanair airports I have to say. What was the load factor like on the flight from noc to bgy?

Any news on the new business lounge at knock!!

Kinocker

19th Apr 2012, 14:24

I see there are four planes on the ground at Knock right now, 2 Ryanairs from Hahn and East Midlands, a Flybe from Leeds going out to Manchester and a Bmibaby from Birmingham.

Does anyone know how IWAK are handling these situations with the limited apron space as they will be common this summer? Will the East Midlands flight (as the last one in) have to wait on the runway until one of the others pulls out or can they get the other apron into use? The main apron badly needs extending at this stage.

sawtooth

19th Apr 2012, 16:08

Most of the time one will be departing after the 4th arrives. In the past with 27 in use aircraft 4 on arrival would backtrack and hold taxiway alpha while one of the other 3 exited left to the turntable for 27 departure, allowing the arrival proceed to the stand. Apron b is also a possibility I guess but haven't seen it used other than when work was carried out on the main apron.

Any word on the apron extension happening? It will surely be a priority if there is to be further growth next year or any possibility of based aircraft. The planned landside parking and entrance road improvements also seem to be on hold.

iwak

20th Apr 2012, 22:52

March stats are out reported on Derry thread that edi was 65% lf and man 75%. if these are correct its a very good performance.

I think that the earlier sun departure from Edinburgh from end of April may effect weekend traffic from knock.

Kinocker

21st Apr 2012, 12:10

Don't think the 65% for Edinburgh is right anyway, doesn't tie in with my experience of using the route. Hopefully it gets good summer loads, the fact that it didn't run for much of January and February shows that it is a fairly marginal route in the winter months.

PPRuNeUser0176

1st May 2012, 10:34

Had a quick look at Flybe winter schedule released today and MAN back to 4 weekly. ED remains 3 weekly and LBA appears to be dropped or seasonal.

EI-A330-300

2nd May 2012, 18:42

March traffic up 3.1% to just under 46,500 passengers.

Kinocker

2nd May 2012, 19:07

Good to see that the growth continued right through the winter despite the loss of a couple of routes. Knock continues to buck the overall trend of pax reductions that are still being seen at the three state airports.

Hopefully April onwards will see an even bigger jump in numbers. It will also be good to have Lufty arriving for the first time at Knock this Saturday.

sawtooth

3rd May 2012, 15:55

Sad to see BMI Baby to wind down and cease NOC route from Monday 11th June along with many of their other routes (see BMI Baby thread).

WW had a long history at the airport and were FRs only competition for many years 735/733 to MAN, BHX and GLA for a time, double daily on MAN at one point. I always found their service and staff very good.

I'm sure BE will be looking on and they have been quick to move in on WWs EMA base. While the retention of the BHX route would be wonderful it would a bit disappointing to see the loss of more jet capacity after MAN and LBA downgraded without frequency gain. FR of course have a BHX base but have now established the EMA route. EI operated NOC-BHX in the past and EIR supposedly kept an afternoon gap in one of the SNN aircraft schedules for this scenario up until recently.

Centre cities

3rd May 2012, 18:01

I would think that it is almost a given that the ATR that operates to Dublin in the middle of the Shannon schedule from BHX will change to Knock as soon as the Baby flights finish. My understanding is that was the plan until Baby ramped up the frequency on the route.

Dublin on the ATR is not needed and any displaced customers can easily be accommodated on other flights.

It just makes sense.

Centre cities

iwak

3rd May 2012, 19:48

Perhaps We may see aer lingus mainline over the summer and regional for the winter .

It's sad to see the end of baby they really gave the airport passenger increases when ryanair didn't. I definitely agree it won't really help passenger volumes if all uk regional routes are operated by turboprops.

You need loco jets to keep pax numbers on the increase. Still wouldnt like to see fr get the route . First preference would be ei then be.

Jamie2k9

3rd May 2012, 21:57

Perhaps We may see aer lingus mainline over the summer and regional for the winter .

You will see more Aer Lingus but it will be regional not mainline for the summer. Flights will begin on 11 June...

iwak

3rd May 2012, 22:38

I can't get into the dub bhx booking engine on aer lingus , we might have news in days rather than weeks on a new bhx operator.

Centre cities

3rd May 2012, 22:59

You are correct, the DUB/BHX can be booked on the 10th June but not after that, I would guess that it will be changed by morning and that Knock/BHX will be bookable soon, perhaps even in the morning as well.

Centre cities

Kinocker

4th May 2012, 00:29

Presumably daily flights then? That would be an upside of losing the jet capacity, FR to EMA likely to see pax growth as a result of this as well.

Jack1985

5th May 2012, 18:57

Aer Lingus Regional will launch a single daily flight from Birmingham to Knock effective 10th June 2012 - To be announced on either Monday/Tuesday. :ok:

Mayfly1

7th May 2012, 09:02

airnoc

7th May 2012, 09:29

iwak

7th May 2012, 09:46

I think it's defo aer lingus regional ,I agree with what you say as regards jet capacity but it's about sustainable air services these days and turboprops are a lot cheaper to run than a Boeing or airbus. For knock I'd say jet wise a flybe embraer 175 or 195 would be perfect capacity.

Knock is doing the right thing by keeping their options open by bringing in another airline aer arann.

Anybody know how loads are on new euro routes?..

PPRuNeUser0176

7th May 2012, 11:56

I would not be so sure, don't Flybe and Ryanair also operate services
from Birmingham?
The airport said last week they were negotiating with a number of airlines so I would be surprised if this happened so soon

If it was Ryanair then you would lose EMA. EI removed to EI regional DUB flight the day that ww closure was announced...if thats not enough then I don't know what is. Its aer lingus. Flybe would be a good operate but I are almost sure they do have the capacity to operate another route from BHX at the minute.

airnoc

7th May 2012, 12:30

HI Aer lingus regional to start bhx flight from June 10th.
Its on knock wikie page

dublinaviator

7th May 2012, 13:04

And has since been removed.

mart901

7th May 2012, 21:10

Jack1985

7th May 2012, 21:39

Interestingly the SNN-BHX run still has a long gap between flights and as previously mentioned the DUB eir flight has been removed. Far short of something very odd occuring I think its safe to say where that will be heading off to every morning!

Yup there should definitely be news tomorrow. Interesting too what Aer Lingus Regional's plans are from here on in with Knock, looks like they could be going head to head with Flybe on Manchester? Hearing reports that Aer Lingus Regional are planning on cancelling their Waterford to London Luton route and doing a W-route from Manchester with the Waterford aircraft, could be a new Knock route or another Irish destination or then again could be used to increase flights to Cork/Shannon.

NABLAG

9th May 2012, 07:48

Hearing reports that Aer Lingus Regional are planning on cancelling their Waterford to London Luton route

That would be a big surprise !

sawtooth

9th May 2012, 08:59

EIR were clearly ready to announce the route last week, but the airport have been making statements about "negotiating with several airlines" and an announcement "in the next few weeks".

It looks like they are holding out for the best deal, probably in terms of maintaining numbers on what was one of the busiest UK routes while protecting EMA. While a new airline brand would be welcome, at the end of the day EIR are still Aer Arann with all their recent baggage, and they haven't historically been too friendly towards NOC.

EI-BUD

9th May 2012, 09:18

The Birmingham route was the first that put Knock Airport on the map outside the london route with mytravellite with a jet so d'ont like the mancherster and leed routes put a small aircraft and lose numbers

airnoc, didnt AerLingus commuter operate a 2 weekly 146 service before mytravel lite came onto the route. I think it did a DUB BHX NOC BHX DUB routing, I think that was mid 90's.....?

EI-BUD

sawtooth

9th May 2012, 09:39

I remember EI on the route. But I think airnoc may be referring to the significant numbers MyTravel carried with an A321, I think it was almost 100,000 in the first year and it led to other airlines such as BMI taking interest.

mart901

9th May 2012, 12:36

The first airline on the route was Ryanair, on a BAC 1-11 which was switched to Coventry over a landing fees dispute (they've never been any different!). Several years later Loganair ran it on a J41 3 times per week and occaisonally upgraded to ATP. The next operator on the route was Aer Lingus who flew once a week out on Fri eve and return Sun afternoon on an F50 which was dropped when they upraded commuter fleet to 146's. Then after another gap mytravellite ran daily on A320 and then Bmibaby flew in competition with them for a season till mytravellite pulled out.

EI-BUD

9th May 2012, 14:41

mart901, Aer Lingus definately did operate 146 on Knock Birmingham. The route appear quite surprisingly out of the blue, I was sure it was x2 weekly. I have some material at home that has the detail, I remembered Ryanair on Coventry and offering bus transfer to Birmingham but didnt remember FR on BHX distinctly.....!

mart901

9th May 2012, 14:45

Ryanair weren't at BHX for long before they moved it but I did fly on the route a few times. I was working at BHX and can remember it being F50 departing on a friday about 9pm and then repositioning to DUB, then doing same in reverse on a Sunday.

mart901

9th May 2012, 15:38

EI-BUD

If you look at this artice on the Irish government dept of transport website you will see about the EI route;

Department of Transport: 1999 (http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=5811&lang=ENG&loc=1807)

EI-A330-300

9th May 2012, 17:52

Knock Airport calls on Govt to speed up development plans in wake of Shannon debt write-off | MayoToday.ie | Mayo News | Updated Daily (http://www.mayotoday.ie/index.php/browse-mayo-news-by-category/business/item/4673-knock-airport-calls-on-govt-to-speed-up-development-plans.html)

Wondered how long it would take NOC to react...now are they a little scared they SNN could get some of the current NOC routes back.

CONAIR11

9th May 2012, 18:13

I think they know only to well at Knock that they did particularly well out of SNN downturn and ryanair demise. Maybe now its time for SNN to win back its share.

sawtooth

9th May 2012, 19:08

I think they know only to well at Knock that they did particularly well out of SNN downturn and ryanair demise. Maybe now its time for SNN to win back its share.

The passenger and airline market is there for any airport to compete for, they don't belong to any one airport. FR will decide where they put their metal.

The difference is NOC have spent 10 years building a lean low cost base and delivering efficiency to make that possible, self funding through it's passenger levy. They have built a solid network of sustainable routes against the odds and with relativly little state support, which has since been cut. It has to fund it's infrastructure program which is incomplete and will soon be unable to meet demand.

Their concern is that another airport is being handed a major competitive advantage by the Government in the form of writing off major infrastructure debts and proposals to provide operational funding and development grants in coming years as well as the resources of it's own development agency.

PPRuNeUser0176

9th May 2012, 19:20

iwak

9th May 2012, 19:42

It's clear that knock has a good relationship with ryanair and they operate some routes from both airports .it's clear that the uk and holiday routes are very successful and remains to be seen how the euro routes will perform.

In my opinion I would say it would be just the euro routes bar maybe Frankfurt that fr would move to Shannon if any at all. If dusseldorf performs well for lufthansa I would be hopeful of a few other german cities being added for 2013.

If ryanair return to Shannon with all the uk regionals aer lingus regional would be screwed .

I hope we can get a Malaga and palma route for 2013 before Shannon does should ryanair start to expand again from snn.

sawtooth

9th May 2012, 20:43

Are you saying that Ryanair would of opened the current routes from NOC if they still had 6 aircraft based at SNN serving the same ones. Think answer is no......you can't say NOC hasn't done well out of SNN over the last few years. It has done well on getting BE,LH,EI in but Ryaniar are there to make a point.

Yes I think some. It's not black and white, FR didn't one day leave SNN, transplanting the whole base to NOC, they retain a scaled back SNN base and 10 of their key routes up to today. Some were restarted from ORK and KIR. At NOC they started with a couple of sun routes for a season and grew slowly over the last 4 years adding a route here and there as they opened bases across europe. Many of the routes were already successful charters from NOC even with FR at SNN.

So Yes I think FR may have added many of the routes anyway, and of course at the same time used some as a stick to poke the DAA like you say.

So it was alright for Knock to receive operational funding and development grants but not for SNN when the tables are turned...

I should have said my previous post wasn't necessarily my personal opinion but an explanation of the argument NOC were making. I believe there's place for both to be successful airports and I'm happy SNN will be supported back to health.

Yes NOC benefited from state support, but I don't think anything put it at a major competitive advantage. But I think it's reasonable to argue that NOC has had to work hard to get to this stage, and is being told there won't be future funding, where as it appears that SNN which had all the support and resources of the DAA and Shannon Development is getting a bailout.

Wether that gives it a major competitive advantage is another question. Anyway the public / private / semi-state / private trust aspect mean this is comparing apples and oranges and my head hurts so I'll leave it at that!

ryan2000

9th May 2012, 21:11

Expect Mayo's 4 FG TD's including An Taoiseach to come under pressure if the Shannon give away starts to undermine Knock! Already the opposition TD for the constituency has called for Knock to be given debt free status!

Kinocker

9th May 2012, 21:30

Can't see Knock suffering too much from this as long as the current government are in power at least. We'll have to see the full details of what's on offer for Shannon but they'll have to restructure in a big way to be able to match Knock's low cost base.

O'Leary couldn't make most of his routes work from Shannon before - he kept the profitable ones going there - I don't see what is changing at the moment to make the others viable now. If Shannon were to give him what he was asking for previously to maintain the multi aircraft base with their existing overheads then they are quite simply too stupid to be allowed to run an airport.

EI-A330-300

9th May 2012, 22:02

O'Leary couldn't make most of his routes work from Shannon before - he kept the profitable ones going there - I don't see what is changing at the moment to make the others viable now.

Yes becasue the NOC routes are so porfitable.....FR have fares for under €5 on the euro routes.

SNN debit write off to the DAA is not costing the tax payer a penny but if NOC got a debit write off it would cost the tax payer. I can't see NOC having any debits as they said the airprot was profitable in 2010 not sure about 2011 though.

Can't see Knock suffering too much from this as long as the current government are in power at least.

Yes because our Goverment is running the country and make all the decions right!!! If NOC has such a low cost base why can't they manage there finances as good as they are at getting in new carriers and SNN will never be able to have such a low cost base as it actually caters for business passengers unlike NOC which realy only opens for lunch during the winter and slighly longer in the summer.

Jack1985

9th May 2012, 23:06

Yes becasue the NOC routes are so porfitable.....FR have fares for under €5 on the euro routes. The routes are new they have no charges (or massively reduced charges), anyhow Ryanair makes most of its money through ancillary revenue and I'd imagine Ryanair's routes are profitable from Knock, who are you to know anyway?

SNN debit write off to the DAA is not costing the tax payer a penny but if NOC got a debit write off it would cost the tax payer. I can't see NOC having any debits as they said the airprot was profitable in 2010 not sure about 2011 though. Slightly wrong. Although no funds associated with the DAA are tax-payer obligations, the DAA's debts of over €700m could soon be tax-payer problems if its creditors deem it to high that's to be revealed over the next few days.

Knock has a fairly rigorous regime in place and fair play to the management team up there they seem to have the most commercial sense aviation wise in this country.

Yes because our Goverment is running the country and make all the decions right!!!I think he was referring to the fact that the Taoiseach is from Mayo aswell as a number of FG TD's, so it would be well in there interests to see growth continue ex-Knock.

business passengers unlike NOCAgain how do you which traveler is using Knock, you don't its your assumption. I could see plenty of Business travellers using London services and most UK routes. While Shannon has TA services, the BA refueling route and a service to London/Heathrow this doesn't mean Shannon is any better then Knock Business pax wise.

realy only opens for lunch during the winter and slighly longer in the summer.Grow up its open from 7am to 7pm hence why it has such a low cost base, only thing Knock really needs to do is extend opening hours in the evening to say 10pm.

Kinocker

10th May 2012, 06:48

EI-A330, you can dilute the €100m in semi-state nonsense or massage the figures any other way you want, but it doesn't change the reality that if Shannon hadn't run up these enormous debts, the Government would be €100m better off right now than it is, and we can ill-afford that kind of wastage at the moment. This IS costing the tax payer, no question about it.

Ryanair's existing UK and sun routes from Knock wouldn't still be running if they weren't doing the business for them, they are not a charity. The fares you quote are for some of the 2012 start up routes which will take time to bed in and may or may not be ultimately successful.

Also, limited winter opening hours is the kind of sensible business decision that results in massive debts not being run up. It might be something Shannon should consider if they want to avoid going back to the government 'cap in hand' in five years time looking for another tax payer bailout.

NorthernCounties

10th May 2012, 07:27

Government would be €100m better off right now than it is

Sure from the Government's pov, €100m is spare change in comparison to the bank bailouts. :E

Angry Rebel

10th May 2012, 07:38

PPRuNeUser0176

10th May 2012, 10:46

EI-A330, you can dilute the €100m in semi-state nonsense or massage the figures any other way you want, but it doesn't change the reality that if Shannon hadn't run up these enormous debts, the Government would be €100m better off right now than it is, and we can ill-afford that kind of wastage at the moment. This IS costing the tax payer, no question about it.\

As far as I know the DAA have never payed part of there profit to Gov so would the Government be 100 million better off, I think the DAA would be. It the passengers using Dublin airport that would be better who are paying for SNN and ORK. The DUB debit is equal to the debit of ORK and SNN put together give or take a few million.

In other news NOC airport claim that almost 10,000 passengers have used the new Euro routes since they started. Not including the first few days in May this means that 83% of seats have being filled since they have started.

April traffic up 11%

Mayfly1

10th May 2012, 12:10

If the DAA did not run up all of this debt, then they would be paying back a divident to government and the tax payer for running profitable airports....so effectively the €100m write off of Shn's debt relieves that airport from that obligation to pay it back (interesting from an EU state aid perspective) and puts the burden fully back on the DAA ,and ultimatly us the tax payer at the end of the day. Fair do's to Shn for pulling this stroke, now its' up to the FG TD's , Minister and Taoiseach to deliver once and for all for the west of Ireland.

Kinocker

10th May 2012, 17:18

Good news that the pax numbers are still going up, I'd be amazed if the loads for the new Euro routes are as high as 83% at this time of year though, that doesn't seem realistic.

A quick calculation suggests that there would have been around 19,000 seats available from commencement of the new routes to the end of April which would provide a more predictable load factor this early on in the services.

Jamie2k9

11th May 2012, 00:07

The info provided by the airport saying close to 10,000 passengers have used the new European routes is from 25 March - 10 May. Ryanair provided 26,838 seats. Using the 10,000 figure quoted by the airport then the actual % of seats filled 37% however in reality I estimate it is between 32-34% as the figure is below 10,000 passengers.

sawtooth

11th May 2012, 11:59

Of the 10,000 pax, 6,000 were inbound according to the airports Facebook page, so fairly evenly split. But it's only the first weeks of first time services, Barcelona was a popular last year so may account for a good portion.

Ireland West Airport Knock | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/IrelandWestKnock)

----

The EIR mid morning BHX rotation to DUB is bookable again from the 11th June.

mart901

11th May 2012, 12:22

I'm guessing flybe is the most likely candidate then, they seem to have a good relationship with the airport. Also, having announced they are upgrading BHX-BHD to all jet services then it might free up some DASH 8 capacity to launch such a route. It needs daily really on that size aircraft.

Kinocker

11th May 2012, 17:25

It was posted on this thread that EIR would announce the route on Monday or Tuesday, so that suggests that all didn't go to plan for them. A bit arrogant of them to assume that they would get the route to themselves if they wanted it, no?

On one side I like the idea of more of an EI presence at the airport, but on the other side neither EI or RE have shown much interest in developing routes at Knock in recent years, preferring instead to focus on Shannon & Galway respectively. Now that the airport is going well they want in - but only on routes where there is a proven demand such as Gatwick and Birmingham. Seemingly no interest in developing routes that are new to the airport. On that basis you'd prefer BE to get it, they are showing a genuine interest in developing niche routes at the airport and having dependable profitable routes like MAN and BHX on their schedule makes them more likely to try other new routes...maybe even base or overnight an aircraft at some point in the future.

mart901

11th May 2012, 18:50

I would say Ryanair would deliver most in the way of pax but relying too heavilly on them is a risky game. Flybe are quite a solid operation and it would offer loads of connections through Air France, Brussels airlines etc. I would say Aer Aranns history at Knock and tech issues will have been held against them, much as I'd like to see them. The only other carrier I could see as a long shot would be Monarch, replicating mytravellite A320 success.

PPRuNeUser0176

11th May 2012, 19:58

On that basis you'd prefer BE to get it, they are showing a genuine interest in developing niche routes at the airport and having dependable profitable routes like MAN and BHX on their schedule makes them more likely to try other new routes...maybe even base or overnight an aircraft at some point in the future.

What niche routes have Flybe devolped. MAN taken becasue Bmibay left, LBA taken becasue Ryanair left and EDI know as demad as RE left GWY. I see not differance between what BE and EI want with NOC. EI want to take BHX since Bmibaby left so both carriers are doing the same taken routes that have being dropped by others.

Then again there would be room for both on the route and prices would be kept low as a result. Bmibaby were carrying over 100 odd passegners per flight. (monthly stats on BHX page)

EI-BUD

11th May 2012, 20:11

I would say Aer Aranns history at Knock and tech issues will have been held
against them, much as I'd like to see them

mart901, I had meant to reply earlier in the week and thank you for the link to the article that showed EI operated F50, I was sure it was 146 at some point. I stand corrected!

I feel that Aer Arann's history at NOC is now largely irrelevant to most people, the ordinary man on the street will see it as booking with Aer Lingus rather than Aer Arann!!!

mart901

11th May 2012, 20:59

Thanks for that, also you mentioned about FR bussing people into Coventry, I can remember being the sole customer from Birmingham on that bus! It did pick people up at Coventry rail station.....it was all because they'd fallen foul with BHX. A similar row errupted at LTN with an aircraft full of PAX grounded untill they paid up! Memories!

On the point of aer aranns reliability etc I would totally agree with you that it shouldnt be held against them but I would reckon they would use that to help justify giving the route over to flybe. It does look like EIR wont be appearing on the route as mentioned earlier.

Cheers

sawtooth

11th May 2012, 21:01

The only other carrier I could see as a long shot would be Monarch, replicating mytravellite A320 success.

One of the largest airline at BHX and very well known brand in Northern England market. They have been talking about adding more to scheduled routes. There's a lot more competition for a 320 now but they could be a good partner to have bringing in Summer charters.

mart901

11th May 2012, 21:08

A bit of a short sector for MON indeed but some of the routes launched by them recently have been rather unusual and they are just about quirky enough to do so. They have seemed keen to slot into some of WW's shoes too. One of BHX's best known airlines.

airnoc

11th May 2012, 22:33

Hi
Where is the Sumburgh Flight gone to the last few saturday?
Is that a Lourdes flight by cityjet tomorrow from Pau Airport?
Flybe is the best to take over the BHX route with Embraer 195 and keep a jet service on this route.

PPRuNeUser0176

11th May 2012, 22:38

Where is the Sumburgh Flight gone to the last few saturday?
Is that a Lourdes flight by cityjet tomorrow from Pau Airport?
Flybe is the best to take over the BHX route with Embraer 195 and keep a jet service on this route.

Yes Pau is for Lourdes.

If BE do start then it will most lightly be a Dash8, still wouldn't rule Ryanair out as they may perfer to fly daily to BHX and keep EMA at lets say 3 or 4 weekly, there is room for both to operate.

Kinocker

12th May 2012, 01:03

EI-EIDW - BE started the EDI route while RE to GWY was still going strong, that route was sitting there for anyone to try and credit to BE for starting it when nobody else wanted to.

Similarly LBA is a marginal enough route that they are making an effort to try out on a W routing, hopefully it is a success for them. BHX is a much more obvious route, as was LGW. Anyone could come in and make those routes work so EI are coming in search of an easy win. But as a user of the airport you'd have to favour the airline that's more willing to experiment with new routes, once you leave nationalistic sentiments aside.

Hopefully some day EI/RE will show some genuine interest in NOC. If they were really interested when they created EIR they could have routes to EDI, BHX and MAN at least by now, but they don't seem overly keen on the place for whatever reason. Hopefully that will change in the future.

MarkD

12th May 2012, 12:38

There's an assumption that BE or EIR have the aircraft and crews to operate an NOC service at present...

OltonPete

12th May 2012, 15:53

MarkD

Aer Lingus regional told BHX the timings and flight numbers of the BHX-NOC about five months ago when I believe they expected BMI Baby to close the route but in fact baby went the other way and increased the frequency.

EI Regional then changed their mind and in the end they added a BHX-DUB instead on the ATR42 (10.00-12.50).

However as soon as the BHX-NOC was pulled by IAG (not baby) the BHX-DUB was taken off sale from 10/6/12 by Aer Lingus, once again giving the impression that Knock was going to announced.

Apparently though the BHX-DUB ATR72 flight is back on sale although I have not seen it myself, as I can't get the EI booking engine to work on BHX-DUB. There seems little doubt the option to open the route is there aircraft wise if nothing else.

As for flybe they could do Tu-Th, Sat & Sun Knock from BHX tomorrow, (although it is never as simple as that) as they seem to have a Q400 on the ground the days the extra BHX-Jersey does not operate but it would cause some re-timings (longer flight-time)

I do believe that this aircraft does operate French routes for 6 weeks high summer although some BHX business flights do get frequency reductions during the six-week school holiday period again which would help.

It will be interesting to see if flybe think it is worth the schedule re-harsh for BHX-NOC.

Pete

ryan2000

12th May 2012, 16:41

Goes to show that EI Regional will thread carefully about taking on a Jet Carrier. Can't see them having ORK MAN to themselves for very long if the economy starts to pick up.

mart901

12th May 2012, 22:46

All very odd with EIR, would love to be a fly on the wall! It does look very much like flybe could be the one. Does anyone know who else?? Does FR have any capacity?

peeriebreeks

13th May 2012, 11:10

LSI-NOC coming to an end due to end of the contract for the contractor Roadbridge

airnoc

14th May 2012, 10:42

Flybe/Knock Airport

If Flybe get BHX part of the deal should be that Embraer 195 be put on both routes and not lose any more pax on man route or on bhx

iwak

14th May 2012, 20:13

Bhx April figures very strong at 70% load factor considering the service went 6 days per week. I think this route really deserves a jet service to maintain these sort of passenger volumes. Liverpool has really benefited at manchesters expense since flybe took over.

CabinCrewe

14th May 2012, 21:38

how are loads on other UK routes ?

sawtooth

14th May 2012, 22:07

Not sure loads but April CAA figures online (% change / total):

EDI +100 1006
LTN +28 7034
BHX +33 5232
LPL +29 7263
BRS +21 3260
EMA +19 4920
STN -01 8674
LGW -8 6178
MAN -44 2642
LBA N/A

What a pity to see BHX up 33% as Baby leave, increased frequency adding to it's popularity, and EMA up also, perhaps due to a FR low fare response. Really goes to show how downgrade to BE Q400 on MAN has hurt the route, be it the the aircraft, ore more likely BE fares putting people off.