IRELAND WEST AIRPORT KNOCK

[Keyvon]

Germanwings is set to serve Knock from Summer '14. It will be operating a weekly flight from Cologne, on Saturdays.

This flight would replace LH current operations from DUS.

[EI-A330-300]

For all the crap in the July and August passenger press releases they actually forgot to say that July traffic was down 2% while August was down 4.4%.

Up to end of August passengers are down almost 91,000. It will continue if replacement carrier isn't found for BHX.

[Kinocker]

Down 91,000 on what exactly? Let's keep things in perspective here.

For the first 8 months of this year the numbers are down less than 20,000 on last year. If that trend continues for the rest of the year there will be over 655,000 pax for the year which would make it the airport's second busiest ever. Nobody expected last years numbers to be repeated with Beauvais and Hahn dropped, the figures so far are actually a little ahead of what was forecast on here at the start of the year.

[EI-A330-300]

Down 91,000 on what exactly? Let's keep things in perspective here.

For the first 8 months of this year the numbers are down less than 20,000 on last year. If that trend continues for the rest of the year there will be over 655,000 pax for the year which would make it the airport's second busiest ever. Nobody expected last years numbers to be repeated with Beauvais and Hahn dropped, the figures so far are actually a little ahead of what was forecast on here at the start of the year.

apologies iphone came up with that number some how, checked again any your correct. You talk about HHN and BVA being dropped which they carried very poor loads but a new weekly/2 weekly service to AGP started which was more less at capacity for the summer.

[EI-A330-300]

Some better news MOL has said that NOC, ORK and SNN are likely to see next routes in 2014.

[mart901]

Some other better news flybe will operate BHX 4 weekly from November Mon, Wed, Fri & Sun.

BHX-NOC M,W,F dep 1100 arr 1225, S dep 1225 arr 1350
NOC-BHX M,W,F dep 1250 arr 1415, S dep 1415 arr 1540.

[Kinocker]

Good news, more or less as expected. I had another poor flight today with EIR, as a fairly regular traveller with flybe on the dash 8 it is definitely a significant step up on the EIR offering so hopefully their route to Birmingham is a success. I was surprised that they didn't come in to that route originally after bmibaby folded, they seem a much better fit at NOC than EIR.

[EI-A330-300]

Germanwings have released 2014 and NOC starts in March and runs until October.

[decky24]

Kinocker,

I too was on that flight and found it very pleasent indeed,and more to the point was in 10 mins early,what did you find Poor about the flight?

Just Curious.

[Kinocker]

Must have been a different flight decky as my flight was late (I was flying EDI-SNN as there's no Friday flight from Scotland to Knock).

Perhaps its just a personal preference but I don't like the ATRs at all. Too many bad experiences with RE and EIR over the years to mention at this stage - I only use them when there's no other option that fits the schedule.

[iwak]

Well good to see flybe coming onto the bhx route I presume it will be like man with a daily service for summer.Also interesting development with a wkly cologne service.

I notice fr are running the Friday stn flight into noc at 8 pm and departing back at. 8.30pm.this is exactly what people want on Friday evenings but it goes back early afternoon on Sunday which could do with being a bit later.This is for the winter months at the moment.

I would imagine we will see Malaga go to 3 wkly next summer and maybe a palma 2 wkly with fr.I can't see any other routes to be better than these.I definitely think an early flight ex knock to stn mon ,weds,fri,sun aprox 8.30am with a late arrival back similar to the Friday flight planned would enable day return leaving ltn and lgw to the afternoon flights.

I know it's all about running costs but surely it's better to be getting people paying the ten euro and spending money at the airport that closing at 4 o'clock .

[confused atco]

surely it's better to be getting people paying the ten euro and spending money at the airport that closing at 4 o'clock .

No its about trying to maximize usage of the assets and not to lose money.

Approx 650000 passengers are expected to use Knock in 2013.

Assume 50000 are minors then that leaves 600000.

This is both directions so only 300000 are paying the €10 departure levy.

Airports are expensive to run.

Unless there is sufficient extra traffic generated by permitting late flights then there is no economic case.

[Mayfly1]

Agree to one extent, but airports also provide important regional connectivity for business, torusim and weekly commuters....and in some instances need to absorb the additional costs to provide the services needed. If this principle was applied to other transport assets, then there would be no late evening or mid week rail services , regional bus services would be significantly curtailed etc etc...there is a balance to be reached

[confused atco]

airports also provide important regional connectivity for business, tourism and weekly commuters
Agreed.
and in some instances need to absorb the additional costs to provide the services needed

Airports are labour intensive operations.

Opening late/early involves extra costs.

The vital question is; is volume of traffic during the day sufficient to cover the extra costs in these services?

Are the local councils/Irish Government/Failte Ireland going to cover the potential shortfall?

Its far better to have a viable operation running core hours maximizing the utilization of its resources.

regional bus services would be significantly curtailed
Since 2010 Bus Eireann has been "restructuring" some of its rural routes.

While concentrating on the profitable routes between the main urban centres.

[EI-A330-300]

a second Friday STN starts in December while LPL loses a weekly flight for winter.

[takingoff]

Great news about the 6:30pm flight from Stansted. This will be of huge help to those working in the city getting out at 4pm on a Friday as they will be able to make the flight comfortably from Liverpool Street. Sunday could have been a bit later although getting into London late on a Sunday can mean a difficult journey home late at night with less frequent trains and tube lines down for up grade works.

Edit - was wrong above a late night flight on a Sunday will commence at 8:20pm. These new Friday & Sunday late flights will be great for commuters. Management have been listening!

[Knock63]

Great news for everyone connected to the airport!!!

[Kinocker]

Great to hear that this is finally happening. Hopefully the airport will be able to absorb the costs of staying open late two nights a week through the winter. There are a lot of regular commuters on this route that this will be a major benefit to, hopefully it will draw in passengers traveling to and from the north west who have previously needed to use Shannon and Dublin due to flight timings as well.

[iwak]

Hi kinocker

Did you fly back from knock on the Sunday that you flew edi snn on friday. What were loads like?

[Kinocker]

Took a week off so flying out tomorrow. I'll let you know. Loads were really good through the summer but will probably be tailing off at this stage. As the route stops for the winter in a few weeks this will probably be my last flight out of Knock this year.

[VickersVicount]

Yes some moderate increases over the peak summer months, but that, I suppose is to be expected. The months either side used to be dire on occasion and im guessing the only reason its survived overall is to keep it summer only, which seems far more appropriate and should allow its continued operation.

[Kinocker]

Loads definitely seem to be holding up well this year, 60 of us on board yesterday. But yes, winter loads have been poor previously other than around holiday periods. If running it seasonally is what is needed to keep it going then suspending it for the winter is the correct decision.

[EI-A330-300]

Flybe are stopping MAN flights between 6/1/14 to 2/2/14. Would imagine that BHX will follow in the next few weeks.

[Fly_bill]

I see they doing the same in shannon also with the new Glasgow flight and also in Waterford with the BHX and MAN flights , the new CEO obviously looking to manage Cost base during the winter

[mart901]

bhx-noc may be left running as it will have only had 2 clear months operation by the time January is upon us. Its only had a months lead in time to start with.

[Kinocker]

Ireland West Airport Knock (http://www.irelandwestairport.com/utility/news_details.aspx?id=336)

Good to see a bit of stabilisation with a small amount of growth recorded in September. Overall this hasn't been a bad year for the airport and it has been shown that passenger numbers around the 650k mark can be maintained year on year at Knock. On the negative side it is difficult to see where any substantial growth is going to come from in the short term, although MOL's recent comments about new routes at Knock next year will hopefully amount to something.

Welcoming a second consecutive month of growth, Joe Gilmore, Managing Director, Ireland West Airport Knock said “Its been extremely encouraging to see such strong numbers continuing to use the airport. Its been one of our busiest summers on record and what has been most noticeable is the regional spread of passengers travelling on our services. We have seen significant increases in the number of people using the airport from the likes of Donegal, Westmeath and the Galway region in particular, highlighting the convenience of the airport but also the important role the airport plays in servicing the wider West, North West and Midlands regions of Ireland’


Also good to see that numbers on my own regular route from the airport to Edinburgh were up 20% in August compared to last year. A quick calculation suggests that this amounts to a load of 71% or 55 passengers per flight. Justification perhaps for a frequency increase next summer?

[Knock63]

I hear the late fri and sun STN flights that were due in around 21:00 have been pulled back to 18:30 :ugh: Great to see the management recognising what the majority of pax need and totally ignoring them. All this talk of growth and they're turning the place into a part time airport, last flight on a wednesday and saturday is @13:30, they're making themselves the laughing stock of Irish aviation. Well done boys and girls :ok:Well done!!!!:D:D:D

[EI-A330-300]

Given the reduced hours this winter a late flight shouldn't be a problem, last year they were open till 5 most days so with the reduced hours this year they should be able to accommodate two late nights.

This comes days after fr announced late KIR flights will continue after an IT glitch restored the old times.

NOC management should stop offering below cost airport charges as it's this reason why passengers are suffering. They don't need a major increase but if the airport want cater for passengers it's got to increase them.

I'm sure the airport staff read these forums so it's time to listen up and do something to benefit passenger and don't use the blame game and gov are to blame. It's the below cost airport charges that are.

[Mayfly1]

Don't honestly see what all the fuss is about,for me the timings work well for the new services getting me into Knock at 6.30pm on a Friday evening is good and a 7pm departure back Sunday evening is perfect as I have enough time to get back to my London base at a reasonable time. The later return on Sunday was going to be difficult as most people returning back to London have to travel another 1-2 hours after getting to stansted. Well done to the airport for getting these services in place I hope they are supported by the region and the moaners go elsewhere

[Knock63]

The moaners, as you put it, have no other choice BUT to go somewhere else my friend, that's REALLY going to help with the growth, but as long as you're happy then we can all relax, I'm sure that'll help all of the staff sleep soundly tonight !!
No FR flight to LPL on a wednesday, with ALL the mid-week football fans that use that service is an absolute master stroke. As I said earlier, and it hurts me to say it, but they're turning IWAK into even more of a part-time airport than it already is. So like you say Mayfly 1, WELL DONE to the airport, WELL DONE!! (Please read in an ironic tone).

[Kinocker]

OK, so Ryanair are talking about growth from all of the Irish airports they serve next year (other than LDY of course) thanks to the removal of the travel tax. I'm sure each airport will have its own list of suggestions based on their existing routes and their requirements in terms of route development, but what might be on the shortlist for Knock that Ryanair could provide?

More sun destinations or increased frequencies to the existing ones?

Increased frequencies to London - maybe a double daily STN?

Another shot at a north of England route?

Prestwick if the Scottish government takeover there leads to expansion?

Return of the euro routes - Germany in particular worth another shot?

Poland?

Or will we see virtually all of this talked about capacity increase taking place at DUB?


Quite a few of those suggestions are unlikely enough of course - I'm just throwing them out there. Anyone else have any realistic suggestions? I remain of the view that the big missing link at Knock is a direct connection to a major hub - but that's not going to come via Ryanair of course.

[EI-A330-300]

Would expect it will be UK and Sun services from NOC new and increased freq. Can't see a return to Germany when 3 euro won't make a big difference to the poor numbers on them.

Would expect SNN to take a good slice of the capacity.

[Kinocker]

The airport looks forward to further positive developments in the near future resulting from the finalisation of the Government steering group report' chaired by Deputy John O’ Mahony on the future options for growth for the Airport

I'd completely forgotten about that report. It will be interesting to see if the good intentions that will no doubt be included within it are ever backed up by any tangible government assistance for the development of the facility.

[iwak]

My wish list for ryanair would be the following.

Palma x 2 wkly

Malaga x 3 wkly

Reus x 2 wkly

Pik x 2/3 wkly ( would be afraid it would effect edi)

Stn 2 daily ( lgw might not survive extra capacity to stn)early am and late pm.

It's proven sun routes work well from noc , I know it's not inbound tourism but if thats what fill seats so be it.

Germanwings will provide enough capacity to Germany in 2014

[Jack1985]

A wish list of mainly bucket and spade routes? Wow, real sustainable! Let's hope management at Knock have more sense.

[iwak]

Jack1985. You are obviously not so knowledgeable about noc's passenger profile.business routes to the likes of Paris Frankfurt etc simply don't work.noc is located in a rural area between the urban centres of Sligo and Galway with Galway very close to Shannon. Most traffic is leisure with maybe 25% business on uk routes.all other routes to knock are sun routes which have remained the cornerstone of growth which the airport has achieved over the last 5 years.

To state that bucket and spade routes are unsustainable is a little ignorant.

Frankfurt and Paris were introduced in April 2012 but were axed in sept 2012 due to dire loads!

Point made.

[Jack1985]

business routes to the likes of Paris Frankfurt etc simply don't work

Frankfurt and Paris were introduced in April 2012 but were axed in sept 2012 due to dire loads!

They could if they were promoted and most probably on a seasonal basis (June-August an example). Kerry supports a Frankfurt route year-round pretty well.

To state that bucket and spade routes are unsustainable is a little ignorant.

What's also a little ignorant is the fact that apparently new jobs will be created, when really you have all this capacity in the Summer and a fall off, of nearly 40% capacity in the winter that means employment is extremely seasonal, not sustained. Given our current situation, inbound tourism should be pursued vigorously and it can be, as this with outbound demand can balance year-round performance. The gathering is testament to that.

[ryan2000]

Inbound tourism is the way to go. Knock and Cork in particular have become far too bucket and spade orientated in recent years. In Knock's case they have some of the most beautiful scenery in WesternEurope and they should be trying to capture the type of tourist that used the French German and Dutch charters to Shannon in the past.

[840]

It's implicit that an increase in inbound tourism numbers is expected if the tax is to stay at 0 (Everything I've seen suggests it has been reduced to 0, but not abolished; this would make it easy to resurrect if desired). The focus is very much on increasing the number of visitors, not improving business connectivity and certainly not sending Irish people out of the country on holiday.

I would have thought for Knock, UK routes offer the most potential, but FR could also consider Beauvais (although it would need to operate as a W), Eindhoven, Charleroi and may risk a return to Germany.

[malc77]

Hi- No flights this winter period from BRS to Knock or Shannon. Any info/ideas on whether flights will run next summer period - and possibly extend into the winter 2014 period?
Amazing there are no flights from SW England to West Ireland.
Thanks.

[Kinocker]

Indeed, but what Ryanair want and what the government want are not necessarily the same. The government want to generate tourism, Ryanair want to make money. Ultimately IWAK will take any route they can get.

It is wrong to dismiss sun routes as unsustainable in terms of the airport's growth. If more people want to use the flights they are as useful to the airport as any other route. They are less useful to the wider region in terms of economic development of course, but the airport will gladly take the throughput either way.

The airport's fb page doesn't exactly receive comments from the most enlightened members of the general public - it tends to mostly be full of 'when are you starting flights to (insert unrealistic destination the poster happens to live near) airport' sort of stuff. However, Reus was clearly popular with the masses and comes up as a destination request again and again. It would need to be a W route though if it was brought back.

There needs to be a realistic assessment of the potential for flights to Germany to be sustained. It is true that Kerry have maintained Hahn for a number of years but when they tried to expand to Weeze it was not at all successful. It is debatable whether, even with extensive marketing, there is enough interest to sustain a Ryanair route in addition to the Germanwings service from Knock.

However, expanding the Stansted service to double daily with morning and evening flights must be a real contender in terms of route development through Ryanair.

[iwak]

Very surprised to see no uk route development from today's announcement at Shannon .This is good news for knock when it comes to ema ,lpl and brs.

I have a funny feeling we might see a route to pik coming on stream along with increased stn ,agp and possibly a restart to reus.

.Is there any other routes that would be sustainable ?

[confused atco]

Increased frequency on the Stansted route from 14 to 15 per week

Ryanair Launches 8 New Shannon Routes In April 2014 (http://www.ryanair.com/ie/news/ryanair-launches-8-new-shannon-routes-in-april-2014)

Second bullet point.
;)

[iwak]

Both airports operate stn as it stands it's the routes like brs and ema that may not be sustainable from both if they had been introduced from snn.Thats my point !

[Kinocker]

Yes, Ryanair didn't have much UK success outside of London from Shannon, even their Liverpool route went very close to getting the chop when they cut back. I wonder how much money they lost flying the likes of myself back and over from Prestwick for £5 each way there for a few years. I remember flying that route on a couple of Tuesdays with only 30 to 40 passengers on board - a hopeless load on a 738. The regional UK routes seem to have worked better for them from Knock for whatever reason, maybe its the lack of competition from Aer Lingus, although flybe's offering is considerably better than EIR's in my opinion.

If I was to guess what expansion is to come at Knock from Ryanair next year at this stage, I'd say extra Stansted rotations and either another sun route or extra frequencies on the existing ones. If there's a new route to the UK or mainland Europe (i.e. not a sun route) I'll be pleasantly surprised.

It's moving a bit off topic but Ryanair hamper themselves somewhat with their insistence on only using the 738. I wonder if they will consider the 737-700 at some point to allow them to move in to routes that the 738 is just too big for? They did of course use a smaller aircraft in the not too distant past, I think it was the 737-300.

[confused atco]

They did of course use a smaller aircraft in the not too distant past, I think it was the 737-300.

The old 737-200 maybe you are thinking of.

Ryanair hamper themselves somewhat with their insistence on only using the 738

The rigid standardization of type is one of the key factors in their success.
Single type.

Spares and all support can be minimized.
This gives a critical mass when storing spares and reduces the need to carry a "unique part" for 1 aircraft.

Single class.
Fill to max.
Rinse and repeat.

Granted they are cheap at flying you where they want to go not necessarily where you want to go.

I would agree with services from Ireland would probably do better with a smaller Aircraft but I don't see RYANAIR changing its spots any time soon.
I don't see a huge number of operators of smaller jets in Europe let alone those with spare capacity to service Ireland.

For now the only game in town is RYANAIR.

[CONAIR11]

I am glad Ryanair did not tinker with routes to the uk. Its important in the long term to hold on to RE and flybe for the routes outside london. Its better service having a 2 daily to say manchester with RE than 4 or 5 weekly with ryanair going at all sorts of odd times.

[iwak]

Does anyone think lba would work if fr reintroduced it considering there is a lot less capacity to man and it's only 1 hours drive from man. Lot of noc passengers saying flybe are very expensive from man to noc!

[Kinocker]

To be honest, given that FR and BE both had a crack at it and it didn't work out either time, I'd be surprised to see it back - the only chance would be if FR thought that it was close enough to being viable last time that the 10 euro tax removal could make it work now, but even then I'd say they'd run it summer only. There is definitely demand for a route to Yorkshire but maybe not enough to accommodate a route alongside MAN and LPL. BE from MAN caters for those willing to pay the extra few quid to go direct to Manchester and FR's LPL seems to mop up the majority of low fares seeking passengers to the north of England very successfully.

[iwak]

Fair comment knocker just looking at uk opportunities for noc as they are the only routes that could be sustainable year round realistically.apart from pik and lba I think everything else is covered but as you say it's all about having a route that's profitable and sustainable.with a bit of luck ei might look at an lhr service someday which I'm sure would be successful.

[Kinocker]

Yes, its all about slots at Heathrow. Plenty of demand for a service but hard for somewhere like Knock to get a look in with so many more profitable options available. Virgin's Little Red (operated by Aer Lingus) will probably have some short-haul slots available in the future as they are failing miserably on their routes to Manchester and Scotland (they are required under their contract to stick with those loss making Scottish routes for now). It would take a serious effort from the IWAK management to get them into Knock though - there are sure to be other more obvious and profitable short haul routes available to them elsewhere - no harm in the management pitching it to them though, it would be far more successful than Virgin's existing short haul routes (and would provide plenty of opportunities for jokes about Virgins appearing at Knock...).

To be honest, from my own experience flying on the Knock to Glasgow route with bmibaby a few years ago, Prestwick probably wouldn't work either. The 738 is just too big for the limited demand for the route. Double dailys to Stansted are the best hope of UK expansion from Ryanair for now I think - and like you said, maybe a seasonal route to Leeds. There may be more scope for expansion on the sun routes though.

[Cyrano]

Yes, its all about slots at Heathrow. Plenty of demand for a service but hard for somewhere like Knock to get a look in with so many more profitable options available. Virgin's Little Red (operated by Aer Lingus) will probably have some short-haul slots available in the future as they are failing miserably on their routes to Manchester and Scotland (they are required under their contract to stick with those loss making Scottish routes for now). It would take a serious effort from the IWAK management to get them into Knock though - there are sure to be other more obvious and profitable short haul routes available to them elsewhere - no harm in the management pitching it to them though, it would be far more successful than Virgin's existing short haul routes (and would provide plenty of opportunities for jokes about Virgins appearing at Knock...).


Little Red is performing poorly. Virgin will stick with it for the statutory minimum period under which they were awarded the slots (3 years? I don't recall exactly) and will then announce in tones of aggrieved sorrow that they can't break into the BA-dominated short-haul market so they are going to use the slots for long haul. They will not use them for new short haul routes.

I appreciate the creativity in looking for other airlines to talk to, but it has to be tempered by some realism...

[Kinocker]

I understand that, if they keep the slots beyond the initial contracts to Scotland, they are obliged to continue to use them for short haul even if they switch the routes they use them on. No long haul allowed on these slots at any time. But yes, I agree the chances of them turning up at Knock at any point are beyond slim.

[Cyrano]

I understand that, if they keep the slots beyond the initial contracts to Scotland, they are obliged to continue to use them for short haul even if they switch the routes they use them on. No long haul allowed on these slots at any time. But yes, I agree the chances of them turning up at Knock at any point are beyond slim.

You're right - I went back and looked and these slots are limited to short-haul (Europe), plus Moscow, Cairo or Riyadh. I think over the next couple of years we could expect Virgin to (a) continue lobbying aggressively for Moscow rights; (b) do a slot-swap deal with Saudi Arabian to give the "restricted" slots to Saudi Arabian in exchange for SV's existing unrestricted slots. But anyway, let's return from considerations of Heathrow strategy to normal Knock matters... ;)

[Knock63]

Just noticed Noc has 4 flights in together within a 15 minute time frame on a Wednesday, does anyone know if this a permanent thing for the winter schedule ??

BE663 12:10 MANCHESTER
FR8142 12:20 LONDON LUTON
EI911 12:20 LONDON GATWICK
BE1121 12:25 BIRMINGHAM

[mart901]

It gets a bit more spaced out in a week or so. BHX was announced very late on and therefore has been squeezed in.

[Knock63]

Thanx Marti, thought the ramp was going to struggle with that many at one time.

[IrishFlyer2013]

FR press conference in NOC tomorrow.

[takingoff]

This can only be good news for NOC, should be interesting...

[Jamie2k9]

This can only be good news for NOC, should be interesting...
Believe 2 or 3 routes.

[takingoff]

Which is great news... I look forward to the press conference.

[airnoc]

This can only be good news for NOC, should be interesting...


2 or 3 routes

Another crack at France/Germany 2 a week each
Maybe Palma de Mallorca 2 a week
Soctland i doubt it
Uk stansted twice daily for S14, hardly look at Gat
Reus would be nice? with girona gone
Malaga 3 a week
Man 4 a week

[iwak]

Hi

Just been on fr website and when I clicked knock destinations in the booking engine Glasgow international, Kaunas and Eindhoven came up . Interesting destinations ! Maybe I've been proved right on the Glasgow front

[Kinocker]

Well they've confirmed on their fb page that it won't involve Reus, not hugely surprising as neither airport is a Ryanair base.

Looking forward to the announcement anyway, don't know what to expect really. I suppose out of sheer short term selfishness I want Prestwick but at the same time I'd be worried that it would fail and bring flybe's Edinburgh service down with it.

I hope they don't just go on the attack against flybe with routes like Edinburgh and Manchester.

[VickersVicount]

Glasgow International.... I wouldnt have thought so. If Flybe struggle to fill a D8 in peak summer from a tourist hotspot such as EDI, Id be surprised if FR could fill a 737-800 year round from anywhere is Scotland. All will be revealed no doubt.
Wonder how Derry does ex PIK

[EI-BUD]

Vickers viscount, Derry Prestwick loads are woeful, many months loads overall as low as 50%, but it's a very short flight ...

[takingoff]

I don't see Ryanair going head to head with any of Flybe's routes, I highly doubt management would allow it. These flights will be more bucket and spade routes with a mainland Europe destination thrown in also. I'm not sure which UK route they could really add, Leeds didn't work out, preswick the loads would be poor. Increase the amount of London flights...

[IrishFlyer2013]

Ryanair have announced PIK, EIN & KUN from NOC for next Summer.

Ryanair Announces 3 New Knock Routes From April 2014 (http://www.ryanair.com/ie/news/ryanair-announces-3-new-knock-routes-from-april-2014)

[Kinocker]

Very good - any word on frequencies, possibly once or twice a week to Eindhoven and Kaunas and three weekly to Prestwick? Kaunas rather than a Polish route is a bit strange, no?

None of those routes are served from Irish (ROI) Airports other than Dublin so they may draw passengers from a wider area than the likes of the London routes do.

A significant expansion that does not include any sun routes is a surprise.

[CARNMANORLAD]

I don't see how PIK will work from NOC when it really doesn't from LDY. It will certainly be interesting to compare loads next summer if LDY still has the PIK route.

[Kinocker]

Yes, this will be very interesting. Is LDY not daily though? I can't imagine the frequency to NOC will be anything close to that - three days a week at most.

NOC have done a fair bit of marketing in the Donegal area in the last year or so, I think they will need to target south Donegal and the border areas in a big way when marketing this route if it is to work. Other than SNN-GLA (which has low loads and I doubt will last) this route will have the West of Scotland to West of Ireland market to itself. Whether that will be enough to sustain it remains to be seen.

[Kinocker]

Ireland West Airport Knock (http://www.irelandwestairport.com/utility/news_details.aspx?id=340) (IWAK press release)

Kaunas 1 x weekly (Thursday)
Eindhoven 2 x weekly (Tuesday and Saturday)
Prestwick 3 x weekly (Wednesday, Friday and Sunday)

The press release looks rushed, there are a few things that don't quite add up:

It suggests that all routes start in April but then says Prestwick starts in June.

Ryanair press release states 80,000 extra seats but IWAK press release states 80,000 on new routes plus 60,000 additional seats to London.

It also infers that there are to be increases on both Luton and Stansted routes - but will there actually be any increase on this year's winter schedule to London and will there actually be any extra flights to Luton?

It is also not clear if any or all of the routes are seasonal or year round - maybe that will be decided based on how they go next summer.

And then there's this throwaway comment at the end:

We expect further positive route development announcements in the coming weeks

[malc77]

Pleasing to see Ryanair will resume this service next Spring - as currently there is no way to get from West Ireland (either Knock or Shannon) to South West England (Bristol) over the Winter 2013 period by any airline.

[Thewigmoreman]

The reason why easy jet have left as told to me by a source was because there was a large amount of CARAVANS spotted near the runway on a regular basis.:ugh:

[Fly_bill]

Not sure what release you are reading the release on ryanair website clearly says 80,000 passengers (not seats) which mirrors the airports release on their website Ireland West Airport Knock (http://www.irelandwestairport.com/utility/news_details.aspx?id=340) I think the additional 60,000 seats is in addition to existing London capacity and Luton will see extra evening services on Friday and Sunday starting in April as well as expected further increases on Stansted. As with all Ryanair announcements none of this new capacity is coming in till April 2014 - all in all a positive day for the West and be interesting to see what further announcements they referring to at the end of their release? any thoughts on same?

[Kinocker]

It's 140,000 seats in total, it's just unusual to see Ryanair not pick out the maximum number possible and run with that, saying 80,000 passengers is a bit conservative by their standards.

The impromptu Q&A session on the IWAK fb page has cleared a few things up. Luton will go double daily on Fridays and Sundays, Stansted's existing Friday and Sunday double dailys will continue into the summer but no actual capacity increase as such on that route. Possibility of later flights during the summer though. Prestwick won't start until sometime in June.

As for the upcoming announcements - if Ryanair were throwing on more sun routes they'd surely have announced it today so that would suggest it is something not involving Ryanair. That task force report involving politicians, business and tourism groups is due out this month. The Advertiser has a fairly positive sounding story on it in this week's edition. Could it be something coming out of that like funding for a genuine hub connection? Something like that was done at Inverness not too long ago. It's probably more likely to be charter sun routes to be honest!

An interesting few weeks ahead either way.

[confused atco]

Could it be something coming out of that like funding for a genuine hub connection?

State aid?

[j636]

Kinocker perhaps fr have learned from the last time they said the 4 euro routes would carry x amount of passengers and that failed. Mind you the numbers they are expecting now are very ambitious.

[Kinocker]

confused atco - not quite, I was thinking something more along the lines of the story I have posted below but funded by local chambers of commerce, tourism associations, the Border-Midlands-West Regional Assembly or some other business group...just a thought.

BBC News - New air route to link Inverness and Amsterdam (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-13413834)

A new service linking a Scottish airport with one of Europe's busiest airports will be launched later this year, it has been announced.

Airline Flybe will fly between Inverness and Amsterdam's Schiphol Airport from 5 September.

The announcement on the new route has been welcomed by MSP Fergus Ewing.

Highlands and Islands Enterprise, Highland Council, transport body Hitrans and VisitScotland have contributed funding to the service.

Flybe will operate seven flights a week during the summer months and six per week in winter.

Inglis Lyon, managing director of Highlands and Islands Airports Limited (Hial), said the route would link Inverness with Europe's premier hub airport.

He added: "The proposed multi-billion investments in renewables, University of the Highlands and Islands developments and the thriving tourism markets gives this route even greater strategic significance."

Mike Rutter, Flybe's chief commercial officer, said the airline had been keen to open the route for many years.

He said: "We have every confidence that this new route will prove extremely successful in opening up the rest of the world through this key European hub and to further encourage business and leisure connections between these two destinations to Scottish travellers."

[confused atco]

We had that sort of "connectivity" to a HUB airport.

It was called the "PSO".

The HUB was Dublin.

They are now gone bar Derry/Donegal and Kerry.

Inverness to Amsterdam as about 800km
EIKN to EIDW about 177km

Not the same.

Sustainable growth and routes are needed.

[iwak]

You have to agree it's a good news day for knock I think Eindhoven is interesting , holland does have a big population and is seemingly a good city destination.so it will hopefully have good 2 way traffic.

Kaunas providing it has cheap fares and there is a decent Lithuanian population around the west I flight a week should be supported .

Glasgow I think is operating on good days for weekend breakers and operated daily from snn a few years back, so no reason why it can't survive 3 days from knock.

Anyway here's hoping the 3 routes are successful.

[mart901]

Quite agree iwak, Kaunas will be well supported, probably limited tourist pax but plenty of Lithuanian's all round the west with nothing but Dublin to choose from. Prestwick should work (incidentally its a W routed flight NOC-PIK-NOC), may totally analalate Edinburgh. The interesting one will be Eindhoven, I can't quite visualize it myself.

[840]

I can see Eindhoven working. There are a lot of Dutch tourist who come to Ireland and it will also work for people in Belgium and North-Western Germany. There must be close to 40 million people within a 2 hour drive of Eindhoven. Plus, it will give business in the North-West direct access to one of Europe's most important commercial/industrial areas.

However, it could impact on the possibility of Dusseldorf returning or the suggested Cologne/Bonn route ever starting. It also reduces the possibility of an Amsterdam route to almost zero (I always thought AMS was the most plausible major hub connection from Knock).

[Kinocker]

Surprised to see that Prestwick is in as a W routing from Knock as obviously it is a Ryanair base. That route is in the system from the start of June to the end of September only for now, whereas the other routes are bookable up to the end of October. The fact that there are flights on Fridays and Sundays should work in its favour. Possibly, as it may run for such a short season, the flybe route to Edinburgh (which runs for seven months) could be able to survive alongside it - although we will need to see whether the results of the strategic review at flybe have any impact on their operations at Knock.

When you look at where Eindhoven is on a map it does seem to be a perfect location for an inbound tourism route to Knock. Similar to Knock itself, it's not that there will suddenly be thousands of people from Eindhoven flocking to the West of Ireland but it is a good centre point for travellers from much of the Netherlands, Belgium and western Germany who may use the route.

[Mayfly1]

Good also to see the Ryanair are not crossing over on new routes from SHN also there will be good combined access for in inbound tourism to the west for next summer from both airports . Will have a good chance of success medium term.

[iwak]

Just read in the western people that a fourth new route is set to be announced from knock this week presume it's the germanwings route from cologne being officially announced!!

[Kinocker]

Is that worthy of its own announcement - it's really just the Dusseldorf service switching 40 miles up the road to Cologne (and it's already bookable)? Any chance they might have something else to announce?

[EI-A330-300]

Sunway direct charters to ACE will be via SNN for summer 2014.

[Kinocker]

Busiest ever October at the airport with a 10% pax increase on last year. Even steady figures for the last two months would bring the annual total to over 670k - comfortably the second busiest ever year at the airport.

A similar increase for the last two months (admittedly this is unlikely) would bring the total up to around 680k, only 5,000 below last year - which would be pretty exceptional given the loss of the Beauvais and Hahn routes.

It makes you wonder what might be achievable in 2014 with the new routes and increased London schedule.

[EI-A330-300]

FR flights to GRO and BGY in 2014 are starting 2 months lather (early June) while BGY will finish in end of August and GRO end of September.

[737aviator]

Anyone figured out where the aircraft doing the PIK route originates? No inbounds from other bases seem to be doing it so perhaps a mistake in the timetable... Surely they won't be positioning in an empty aircraft?!

[iwak]

Possibly might be brs aircraft as it operates the same days. Give it time as schedules I'm sure will change before launch date .ltn Friday and Sunday eve flights still haven't been loaded.

[mart901]

When FR launched BVA there was a question mark around where that a/c would W from for a long time and then schedule was ammend from STN.

On a separate note, any word on how BE is doing on BHX?

[iwak]

Ryanair have added a Monday flight to stn for summer 2014

[_IRL_Flyer]

Flybe have dropped NOC-EDI.

[SNNFlyer]

FlyBE's seasonal Edinburgh service has been axed, as was suspected in previous posts.

flyBe Routes Cancellations in 2014 | Airline Route (http://airlineroute.net/2013/12/04/be-2014/)

[iwak]

Hi all

I see flybe announced their route closures today .knock services to man and bhx are to remain ,with edi going to a summer only service as it has for this winter. Gla to snn has been axed , good news for noc's new pik service!!

[vectisman]

WingoWango
Your interpretation is correct. All the routes mentioned on the release are dropped completely.


V.

[iwak]

Hi

You are right Edinburgh is being dropped ,at least pik is on the way.edinburgh will still be available via man or bhx though!

[mart901]

Shame about EDI, it had a better run this summer. On a brighter note LGW is scheduled as A320 next summer, although that might not happen in practice.
Anyone know how BHX is performing?

[Kinocker]

Very frustrating to see Edinburgh go, it did just seem to be establishing itself during the summer in terms of loads, unfortunately I guess it wasn't paying its way.

In ten years of flying between Scotland and the West of Ireland I have now seen the following routes come and go:

SNN-PIK (FR)
SNN-GLA (EIR, then BE)
SNN-EDI (FR)
GWY-GLA (BA/Loganair)
GWY-EDI (RE)
NOC-EDI (BE)
NOC-GLA (WW)

...leaving us with SNN-EDI (EIR) and the upcoming NOC-PIK route. I have flown on all those routes at one time or another other then the GWY-GLA one. It seems to be a real struggle to get a sustainable route/carrier setup on these routes. EIR's EDI-SNN is the only route surviving this winter - and even that has been cut back.

Hopefully NOC-PIK becomes the route that bucks the trend but with BE dropping EDI I'd have a real fear now that by summer 2015 we'll be back to a situation where NOC has no direct links to Scotland.

[EI-A330-300]

NOC-BHX goes daily for the summer.

[Kinocker]

It seems strange that there are now no connecting flights bookable to EDI from NOC. This seems odd as there are plenty of flights from NOC to MAN and BHX and onwards from these airports to EDI but no connections are bookable. Connections to GLA are still in the system. Given that they had developed a customer base through the direct flights to EDI you would think they would wish to retain a connection especially as there would be no real cost to the airline to do so.

[Kinocker]

From MWR News:

Deputy O'Mahony describes key IWAK report as 'positive' (http://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/18016-deputy-o-mahony-describes-key-iwak-report-as-positive)

A report on the future of Ireland West Airport Knock has been handed over this evening to the Minister for Transport and the Taoiseach.
The news was confirmed to Midwest Radio by Deputy John O’Mahony, the Chair of the Joint Committee on Transport and a member of a special study group tasked with producing the document.
The Fine Gael TD says the group, comprised of a wide range of local and national stakeholders, as well as the board of the airport, met 8 times over the course of their work.
Deputy O’Mahony says the report contains a number of key recommendations on Ireland West Airport that are likely to be published in the coming weeks.
He described the report’s findings as ‘positive’ and said he expected the response from government to be the same.

-----


Looks like this is finally at a conclusion. The report itself will be interesting, but what will be more important is whether the findings are implemented and how the longer term issue of state aid is dealt with.

[iwak]

Ltn now twice daily on fri and sun for summer timetable .pik will now be operated with pik based aircraft.

[mart901]

NOC will have 5 flights to/from LON on summer Fridays and Sundays, really positive. LGW is down as A320 for summer, this should help boost pax which have dwindled a bit this year after some good growth.

[Locker10a]

Anyone know from where the LGW flight is operated from on its W routing ? It was BHD last summer i think and switched to LGW for the winter timetable ! Will it be a DUB A320 for next summer or back to BHD?

[mart901]

Neither, its LGW based for summer. Also it reverts to an A320 over Christmas.

[Jamie2k9]

LGW schedules are far from being confirmed.

[Kinocker]

http://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/latest-news/4093-kbock-set-to-seal-35m-investment-package-catfight-in-claremorris-cited-as-political-turning-point-in-airport-funding-dispute

The Connaught Telegraph reports this week that a 35 million euro investment package (phased over an extended period) for IWAK is to be recommended in the airport report. Funding source to be split between central government and local authorities. Obviously this is only a small fraction of what Shannon recieved a year ago but I would rather see a smaller amount wisely invested in the airport than a huge amount wasted if the proposals get government approval.

I wonder would the focus be on route development, terminal and apron expansion or would the airport management consider removing the departure fee to entice more passengers to use the facility. At 3 million euro a year, it would be a brave decision to remove the fee.

[sawtooth]

Government have announced OPEX funding scheme for regional airports will be extended for 10 years, giving them certainty for planning and investment (subject to EU rules). New regional aviation policy is being drawn up which will require regionals to become sustainable in that period. No details yet but it does sound like the recommendations and business case in the IWAK report have been adopted.

Coupled with travel tax cut, and reasonable capital investment package this should ensure further growth and a secure future for Knock.

http://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/18130-taoiseach-says-decision-to-extend-exchequer-support-for-regional-airports-for-a-further-10-years-offers-significant-opportunities-for-knock-airport

[sawtooth]

I wonder would the focus be on route development, terminal and apron expansion or would the airport management consider removing the departure fee to entice more passengers to use the facility. At 3 million euro a year, it would be a brave decision to remove the fee.

The MD recently made it clear the fee is currently key to funding €8m operating costs. But they appear to be saying they could become self sufficient at the 1.2m passenger mark. Hopefully the detail of the report will be published soon, some politicians manoeuvring to put their stamp on it.

[Kinocker]

As a result of the weather impact this morning it looks like IWAK has ended up with five aircraft on the ground at once this afternoon - two BE, two FR and an EI. Anyone know how they're working this with only three stands? If there were four aircraft they could hold one on the runway but five seems more awkward.

At least the LPL flight got away half an hour ago or it would have been six at once.

[Knock63]

Would they have put one into Bravo, tho I think there's a 320 down there for breaking??

[iwak]

Eindhoven now showing 4 weekly mo,tue,thurs,sat .must be selling like hot cakes.Thought fr would have brought pik launch forward considering edi is gone . I see alc is now gone to 1 wkly in April may,but goes to 3 wkly in high season.

[EI-A330-300]

For the months of April and May next summer:
EDI -3 weekly
ALC -1 weekly
GRO -2 weekly (resumes June)
LPA -1 weekly (resumes June)
BGY -2 weekly (resumes June)
EIN -1 weekly released at 3 weekly, then increased to 4 now showing 2


LTN and STN gain 5 flights.


Some of the cuts are the same from September onwards while the second weekly AGP no shown yet. It may not be all confirmed yet but will the numbers lost outside June-August, its unlikely they will be made up. London extras will have an affect but will also take from some of the capacity already here.

[mart901]

Thought EDI was scrapped?

[CabinCrewe]

certainly not bookable anymore

[Kinocker]

For the months of April and May next summer:
EIN -1 weekly released at 3 weekly, then increased to 4 now showing 2


EIN was released at 2 weekly and is currently showing at 2 weekly.

Also it didn't exist at all last year - you seem to be attempting to compare this year's flights to last year so to include a new twice weekly service as a drop is bizarre to say the least.

A more balanced view of the situation in these months might be something like this:

EDI down three (a dash 8 so in terms of loads about the equivalent of down 1 737-800)
ALC down 1 weekly (if that is finalised)
GRO down 2 weekly (resumes June)
LPA down 1 weekly (resumes June)
BGY down 2 weekly (resumes June)

However, this needs to be assessed against the gains...

EIN up 2 weekly
KUN up 1 weekly (you seem to have ignored this one entirely)
London Airports up 5 weekly

So overall, possibly a slight increase in numbers in these months. Then with the resumption of services to GRO, LPA and BGY, the new service to PIK and the continuation of the other new routes (EIN and KUN) you're looking at sizable gains from June to September.

[airnoc]

THE whip of the Fine Gael party on Mayo County Council has called on the authority to do everything in its power to ensure the future of Ireland West Airport Knock (IWAK).

Speaking at yesterday’s (Monday) budget meeting of the council, Councillor Joe Mellett said the report of the study group, chaired by Deputy John O’Mahony, revealed the airport owes €85 million to the bank, for which it is paying €900,000 per annul in interest, and €1 million to the Western Development Commission.

Did not think it was €85 million that was due to banks. Is it not entitled to the same write off as Shannon.
Though that Glasgow would have started in march now that Edinburgh is gone. Show that is good interest in einhoven when it went to 4p/w and now back to 2p/w it might still increased to 3p/w.
Happy new year to all in pprune

[confused atco]

Councillor Joe Mellett........... revealed the airport owes €85 million to the bank:suspect:


Hopefully the detail of the report will be published soon (http://www.dttas.ie/sites/default/files/publications/aviation/english/ireland-west-airport-knock-study-group-report-december-2013/ireland-west-airport-knock-study-group-report-december-2013.pdf)

Dept of Tourism transport and Sport released it last month linked above.

Per said report
Western Development Commission is owed €1.9 million.
The banks are owed €7.9 million. Not quite as headline grabbing as €85 million.
:=:=:=
But its still a lot.


Re Eindhoven
now back to 2p/w

Per "Kinocker"

EIN was released at 2 weekly and is currently showing at 2 weekly.

So it appears it newer was anything but twice a week?

If there is sufficient interest 2015 may show an improvement.

[airnoc]

Hi All
Found this to day
Glad to see Edinburgh back if only for a short time.


FLT NO DEP ARR DAYS STOP A/C CHANGE DATES
Edinburgh
Knock - Ireland West
BE491 10:10 11:30 . T . T . . . - - 06-May-14 - 09-Sep-14
BE491 14:30 15:50 . . . . . . Su - - 11-May-14 - 07-Sep-14


FLT NO DEP ARR DAYS STOP A/C CHANGE DATES
Knock - Ireland West
Edinburgh
BE492 11:55 13:15 . T . T . . . - - 06-May-14 - 09-Sep-14
BE492 16:15 17:35 . . . . . .

Su - - 11-May-14 - 07-Sep-14

[Knock63]

Hi Airnoc, do you think the FR Prestwick will have a significant effect on the Edi flight or are they far enough apart to warrant their own flights?

[airnoc]

Knock63

Got timetable from Flybe website and they must think that they have a positive outlook on numbers to run the route :)

[CabinCrewe]

...did they not look at last years ?:eek:

[Locker10a]

Sorry If this had been dealt with already, but what are the planned charter ops to NOC this summer ?

[EI-A330-300]

A weekly ACE charter which is going via SNN this year and the few flights to Croatia.

[iwak]

Great to see edi back for summer had good loads last summer!

[Fly_bill]

Edi isn't operating this summer that's a service via man/bhx that's on their website

[iwak]

Have a look at timetable section edi wasn't there a few days ago and also the dates are from may to sept 2014!!!

[Kinocker]

Would be a surprising move to re-start it at this stage. It is still not bookable and we are half way through February now. It would be good to see it back for the peak season.

In terms of competition though, i see that passengers on the NOC-PIK route can get free onward rail travel to anywhere in Scotland this year so flybe might be up against it here.

[iwak]

Edi / noc still not in Booking engine anybody know if it will be back this summer?

[Kinocker]

I can't see it coming back at this stage. We'll just have to hope that Prestwick becomes a successful replacement.

Some news of additional summer flights today though. Stansted will be going double daily on Mondays this summer in addition to the previously announced Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays. I make that 27 return flights to London airports each week from Knock (five return trips on Fridays and Sundays, four on Thursdays and Mondays and three the other days) which is a serious capacity increase in the space of a year.

Also Lanzarote is going to twice weekly for June and July and Alicante is going to three a week in August.

That should all lead to some good passenger numbers this summer.

[mart901]

I notice LGW is changing to A320 about a week earlier than originally planned, but not in time for St.Patrick's rush, wonder if this is just operational or demand lead?

[Knock63]

I hear FR are moving a flight to a later slot on a Tuesday afternoon, anyone know which destination ??

[iwak]

Noc to stn gets an increase for winter 14/15 double dily on mon,weds,fri and sun.long overdue should do well.

[airnoc]

Hi All
The summer season has truly started with 27 landings and departures tomorrow Thursday.
Great to see new flights coming on board.
Is the Paris a one off charter?


Ryanair FR7781 07:50 KAUNAS
Ryanair FR805 07:55 LONDON STANSTED
Ryanair FR8749 09:15 MALAGA
Ryanair FR2359 11:25 LANZAROTE
Ryanair FR2451 11:50 FARO
FlyBe.com BE1121 12:20 BIRMINGHAM
Aer Lingus EI911 12:25 LONDON GATWICK
FlyBe.com
Etihad BE663
EY7017 12:50 MANCHESTER
A59600 13:00PARIS - LE BOURGET
Ryanair FR6673 13:45 LIVERPOOL
Ryanair FR8142 13:55 LONDON LUTON
Ryanair FR1742 15:05 EAST MIDLANDS
Ryanair FR807 17:30 LONDON STANSTED

[Cian]

As Le Bourget isn't used for scheduled it'd have to be.

[Knock63]

The Apron extension must be close now, all these flights grouping together must be putting them under severe pressure.

[airnoc]

Ireland West Airport Knock
Great shot of this 757 on final touchdown this eve at Ireland West Airport Knock.
All planes go to heaven : )

Hi all
What announcement is due tomorrow with 757 on the apron?
Look well as it flew a low across the sky's in the west this evening and where did it come from?

Thanks in advance

[Hangar6]

ILFC owner , plane for scrap and parts I believe

[airnoc]

Hi All


Any word on how new routes are doing and what are the pax figures like for 2014 so far?.

Thanks in advance.

[EI-A330-300]

Sunway have cancelled there charter to ACE this year. They had planned to operate via SNN however its pulled completely because of a dispute between the airline and Spanish Gov.

[sawtooth]

Ryanair Milan BGY flight diverted to Dublin yesterday after a lightning strike on approach to NOC. Returned 3 hours later following inspection.

http://tinyurl.com/qjowg8l

[airnoc]

[QUOTE]
Ryanair Milan BGY flight diverted to Dublin yesterday after a lightning strike on approach to NOC. Returned 3 hours later following inspection.[QUOTE]

How many pax on board?

How are the new routes doing?

Thanks in advance

[iwak]

2165 pax on the new prestwick route an average of 83 pax per flight which isn't bad at all considering it was the first month of operation ! Edi never reached this level of passenger numbers per month!

Anyone any figures on kaunas and eindhoven

[mart901]

In fairness BE would have been running EDI on about 100% LF to achieve those numbers, it did sometimes do well in summer. I notice however they have grown MAN and BHX by 8% and 7% respectively, BHX perhaps benefiting at the expense of FR's EMA route which lost a bit. Good growth on other UK routes, except BRS.

[Kinocker]

The Prestwick numbers are very similar to the Leeds numbers in the early days of that route. Hopefully they will pick up a bit because I don't think that June figure will be quite good enough to sustain the route. However, from my own personal experience of using it, the numbers on board seem a lot higher this month than they were in June. There was about 150 on board (inbound) when I used it at the weekend.

If it survives for next summer it is likely to move to Glasgow International which would probably boost the numbers a bit.

[iwak]

I see flybe are operating the e175 on Manchester route on tues and fri at the moment.

Hi kinocker sounds good for the pik loads in July what was the load like on your return flight to pik..?

[Kinocker]

iwak - I came back on a Wednesday flight which I'd say had a load of about 55 to 60%.

[iwak]

Ok but I'd say weds is prob the lightest load of the week

[Kinocker]

I'd say it would be much quieter than the Friday and Sunday flights alright.

I see Kaunas has been announced once weekly at Shannon for the winter. I'd be surprised if they're planning to fly to Kaunas from both airports next summer so that's most likely the end of that route from Knock. A sign that the massive competitive advantage that has been given to Shannon by the Irish government is starting to adversely affect routes from Knock.

[Jamie2k9]

I see Kaunas has been announced once weekly at Shannon for the winter. I'd be surprised if they're planning to fly to Kaunas from both airports next summer so that's most likely the end of that route from Knock. A sign that the massive competitive advantage that has been given to Shannon by the Irish government is starting to adversely affect routes from Knock.

Going by starting loads, there is nothing to write home about. Like FRA, BGY, BVA etc both EIN and KUN are carrying similar loads and they were dropped or make peak season.

[Fly_bill]

kUN has actually been performing very strongly I know someone who uses the route regularly and loads have always been 150 plus from what I hear as well June July been in the high 80's prob sustainable from both airports given different catchments served to a large degree

[iwak]

Real pity to loose Kaunas maybe we might get a polish route from Shannon or possibly a Vilnius link next summer I think fr have a base there!

Its hard to know which routes will work from knock going forward.

Reus will definitely work and maybe increases in frequency of the bucket and spade routes but the uk is pretty well covered apart from Edinburgh but if we have glasgow I reckon edi will be a non runner.

A summer service to new York and Boston would defo work but it will be hard work to convince any American carrier to fly JFK knock 2/3 weekly .

[FRatSTN]

FR don't currently have a base in VNO

[onyxcrowle]

O need some advice please.
Im planning on a wee bteak.
I fancy western Ireland.
However I need to fly from eithet Newcastle Manchester Leeds or at a push east mids.
Id consider The Scottish airports if the price is right.
RYR are out of the question as they need a passport.
I woukd consider other irish airports like belfast but when I called easyjet today they told me they dont fly anywhere in Ireland. This confused me as I thought they did.
So the other issue is car hire.
I want to hire a mid sized diesel. But rang numerous numbers off the knock website half where dead.
The I tried three car hire places at the airport.
Each was around 300-500 euro. Is thid because its airpirt prices.
So can someone pls advise me where the best car hire is in that area is it cheaper in town or sligo?.
(Is there an airport in sligo).
Also other than flybe whos best to fly with and cheap.
Sorry to kinda hijack the thread.

[mart901]

Hi onyxcrowle


I have sent you a couple of private messages with all the details about flights and car hire.

[onyxcrowle]

Ah thats great thank you sorry for the late reply I only just logged onto the app.
Il go onto the pc n look.at your message.
Thank you

[TRY2FLY]

Try Flybe (Loganair) from Glasgow to Donegal. Call Donegal airport direct for the car hire. You are still on the West coast and it's beautiful if the weather is nice :-)

[airnoc]

06/08/2014 - July is the busiest month in the Airports history of as 91,000 passengers travel through Ireland West Airport Knock
The month of July has proven to be a record breaking month at Ireland West Airport Knock as the airport recorded its busiest month for passenger traffic in the airports 28 year history.

Over 91,000 passengers used Ireland West Airport Knock in July, surpassing the previous busiest ever month, which was August 2012, when 89,500 passengers passed through the airport.

July traffic to/from the UK was up 17% on July 2013, while passenger traffic to/from mainland and continental Europe increased by 18%, highlighting the airports importance as a gateway for the West of Ireland for important tourist generating markets, particularly in mainland Europe. All four of the airports airline partners, Flybe, Aer LIngus, Ryanair & Germanwings showed an increase in passenger numbers and higher load factors compared to July 2013.

The latest figures also show that Ireland West Airport is on track to record the busiest year in the airports history with passenger numbers expected to reach 700,000 for the first time. The Airport now serves 25 International destinations and is served by four of Europes biggest airlines.

The major increase in passenger numbers is also attributed to a host of new services which have been launched from the airport in 2014 with strong numbers travelling on new services to and from Eindhoven in the Netherlands, Kaunas in Lithuania and Glasgow with Ryanair whilst a new service from Cologne-Bonn in Germany with Germanwings has proved very popular with an expected 20% increase in the number of German visitors to the West this year. This combined with an additional 70,000 new seats added on key London services to and from London Stansted and London Luton this year, will contribute to record levels of growth in 2014 at the airport

Recent passenger research carried out at the airport shows increased traffic from overseas markets visiting the West to experience the Wild Atlantic Way. The airport is the central gateway to 8 of the 15 official Wild Atlantic Way Signature Discovery Points and offers the perfect gateway for overseas visitors to discover this beautiful scenic route

Commenting on the record numbers, Joe Gilmore, Managing Director Ireland West Airport, said “We are delighted to have recorded our busiest month in the airports history, which is an endorsement for the range of destinations, ease of access and convenience of the airport for the people of the region and for those overseas visitors who want to fly directly into the heart of the West of Ireland. These passenger figures highlight the importance of the airport for the regions in which we serve and how with support from regional stakeholders the airport can continue to grow and develop essential international connectivity that will lead to more jobs and prosperity for the people of the West and North West of Ireland’
A recent independent study by Ernst & Young Economic Consultants stated that the airport supports a total of 900 jobs in the region with an overall economic contribution of €133m annually.




Great news for for IWAK but will number of pax not drop big time as some routes are closing in sept/oct and what happen to Kaunas it was to be year round but now gone to debt free shannon

[Kinocker]

The numbers will drop back down after September but probably just back to the levels of previous years or thereabouts. I don't think there's much scope for further winter expansion until the economy picks up so Knock needs to chase growth in the summer months, which they have succeeded in doing this year.

I don't know that Kaunas was ever announced as a year round route, it was only ever bookable until October. As it will be commencing from Shannon I don't think it will be back next year. It will be interesting to see if there is any scope for growth in summer 15 but it will be a few months before we will find out. Hopefully the Eindhoven and Glasgow routes can be maintained and allowed to establish themselves. It sounds like Cologne is doing well but it is hard to get numbers for the non UK routes as the CSO figures are so hopelessly far behind real time.

It would be nice to see the 100k pax mark exceeded for the first time this month.

[Knock63]

It's great to see so many passengers using Knock Airport, but I hear they are not spending much whilst they're passing through, if they could only get them to start spending some money then they might be in a position to give the workforce some kind of financial reward :rolleyes:

[EI-A330-300]

If you travel with a loco then airport spending is never going to be huge and the customer base for NOC is largely Irish and if you are flying out you will spend lots at the returning airport.

You do have to consider the ADF charged and how only regular passengers will only know about it as Ryaniar don't display it. people who planned to pick up some bits will be put right off as a family of 4 will be down 30-40 euro depending on age even after paying for flights by the time they reach the check in desk.

[Kinocker]

Was just having a look at the CAA numbers for July there for UK routes to Knock, the consistent growth across the board is very encouraging to see with every UK route showing growth from July 2013:

Gatwick +11%
Luton +23%
Stansted +24%
Birmingham +22%
Bristol +5%
East Midlands +3%
Liverpool +10%
Manchester +13%

In addition more than twice as many passengers used the Prestwick route this July compared to the Edinburgh route last July - not really a fair comparison as it is Ryanair v Flybe, but it still adds to the numbers. Hopefully much of that growth is tourism related and is a pointer to a longer term upward curve for numbers using the airport, even if it is restricted to just the summer months.

[CabinCrewe]

Will be interesting to see what the route does when it switches from PIK to GLA which we all know it ultimately will..... ;)

[Kinocker]

If they bring the route back next summer I'd expect it would switch to GLA alright, since the other two Irish routes are moving there. We won't know for a few months whether it will be coming back for summer 2015.

[iwak]

Very encouraging figures all right plus flybe will operate daily to bhx for winter and Manchester will operate 4 wkly throughout winter unlike last year having a 4/5 week break after Xmas.

Stn will be double daily mon/weds/fri/sun for winter which will also help figures.

I cannot understand why they don't bring Bristol back for winter at 3 wkly given its performance during summer.

Hope Glasgow returns next summer think operating from paisley would help numbers over prestwick.numbers were pretty good considering it was the first year of operation.

All very positive for iwak!

[onyxcrowle]

Il second what tryfly said. I visited Ireland for the first time . Recently . And on my way to Burtonoort to catch the Aranmore ferry , I spotted a sign for Donegal airpirt.
I eas curious as ud heard it had lost all its flights.
So how I was surprised when I turned uo to find a lovkwy little terminal.
It was locked at first but the checkin girl let me in.
I explained I wad interested in Aviation .
So she yold me the flights they did.
Anyway I had lunch in the Aerport cafe , Lovley homemade soup and sandwiches. N herbal tea.
7 euro.
The weather was ok at Donegal, But by tge time I git to Aranmore it was like the Med.
And the lighthouse there is a must sea.
As is the memorial in the lough.
Im part cektic anyway so have an affinity for Scotland. Im half welsh. But great Grandmother was Irish.
When I went further south and West I flew from Conemara Airport. Staggeringly busy in terms of movements. And flew to spend a fee days on Inishmore.
And the strangest thing tgat that west side felt la bit like going back to visit the house yiou grew up in.
Ireland felt like home. Not to mention the spiritual nature of the pkace.
Inishmore the westher was amazing.
Theres things on there everyone shoukd have on their bucket list.
A 30.000 (may have even bern 300 000) years old fort. With stunning views.
I know this isn't aviation rekated but in awsy it is and il make my point in a moment so stick with thid. The irelabd had the smallest church in Eurooe.
Standing stones. The abandoned lighthouse. That they built to far inland.
And Great food. Andcdespite all the negstiv isdues with the EU I met and made friends who want to stay in touch. Irelsnd is ny spiritual home.
Anyway from an aviation and tourism thing.
Iteksnd is undersold.
None of those things ive told you all about are well promoted.
Even Northern Ireland . Thevgusnts Causeway.
The peace bridge in derry.
So can any proper pilot (im not sadly beyond the sim and I do have one real.life fkying hour in s poerrd glider).
So I dont understand the emwaybairports sre choden etc .
But Dionegal im sure coukd take A319?..
Derry amazing place.
Why is there no effort for Airport's to Win incoming Tourist flights.
For example , Air Berkin coukd land st donegal.
Twice a day in summer. Albiet perhaps from Different airoorts.
And Derry. Whete is the tiurust office in hekping secure more inbiund stuff.
Sorry fior the Long post. But having been there (been home). Its annoying that I have to dtive akk the way to Glasgow to getvto Donegal.
Another qyestion for you guys in the know and sgain sorry for the epic post.
Why cant we go back to the days in thecUk of intercity small prop servicrs (I mean like the proposed Newcastle to Msnchestershuttle).
Or to be ablr to flybfrom Any northern airpirt to the north of Scotland (yes I know they do Aberdeen).
But direct flights to inverness on small aircradt la few times a week . Or the Scottish Islabds and Ireland.
Your choice is either Belfast or Dubkin.
Are there Derry services in the North Eg Newcastke
And can you fky to Galway or Kerry from north.
(Does manchestercstill fly to shannon and Cork)?.
Im A supporter of DSA Linksair promised more routes id love them to offer if they had the fleet and Schefuke to Offer Donegal, Galway, Dubkin and Cork.
And inverness and Aberdeen/Edinburgh..
But my final point Smaller airport's need mote routes. Ok DSA isntva tourist destination though itvis only snd hour to York and Lincokn.
But these wee Irish airpirts need their tourism to really push the area. And all struggling Airpirts need APD exemption and Public Subsidies to bring in Decebt routes.

[EI-A330-300]

So after dressing up numbers using NOC-PIK in July the actual LF was?

[fivejuliet]

2644 seats filled out of 4536 = 58%

[airnoc]

Hi All
Great to see 30 flights land and takeoff to thirteen difference destination as this should the busiest day in the history of IWAK. Should hit near the five thousand mark. Well done to all at IWAK and keep the faith.

Thank you in advance

[Kinocker]

Ryanair very quick off the mark with their summer 2015 schedules from the Scottish airports. No sign of any flights to Knock though so unfortunately it looks like the Glasgow route is gone.

[cuthere]

From this article it seems clear NOC-PIK/GLA isn't happening:

Ryanair announces new Glasgow routes - The Scotsman (http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/ryanair-announces-new-glasgow-routes-1-3521832)

The pertinent quote is: and will no longer fly to Knock in Ireland from the west of Scotland, Michael O’Leary has confirmed.

Shame, and also a surprise, as nearly every other new route from NOC with FR has done well. BE/EIR to the rescue?

[Kinocker]

100,000 passengers in one month exceeded for the first time in August - not unexpected but good to see all the same.

Ireland West Airport Knock (http://www.irelandwestairport.com/utility/news_details.aspx?id=363)

[EI-A330-300]

Germanwings look like they are dropping NOC, they have released there 2015 flights and no service added.

SNN-KUN goes 2 weekly in 2015 so almost confirms NOC is gone as it operates to SNN on Thursdays.

[fivejuliet]

Looks as though LGW is not going to operate either.

No sign of Eindhoven or Las Palmas loaded up yet, and Prestwick not returning for certain as this was mentioned by MOL

[Fly_bill]

Be big shame to lose Kaunas but I hear it's going to operate from June to August where ya hear aer lingus not operating for 2015? I understand it will operate daily as per usual and will be on sale shortly - can't see them pulling this route. Ryanair still loading schedule it appears so expect to see final schedule in next week or so

[mart901]

EI have had a corking summer on NOC-LGW, hope it is just late going on sale. Been a few mentions of LGW base closing, hopefully not but if it is the case the route can easily be operated from BHD or DUB on a W, as it often has been.

[fivejuliet]

I'm happy to be proven wrong on LGW but both DUB/BHD-LGW are both on sale and no gaps in either schedule to indicate a W rotation to Knock.

August seems to have been the exception rather than the rule with good loads- the rest of the summer the average LF was only around 60%. Remember they were doing good business on NOC-BHX when they axed that!

[Fly_bill]

They don't need to operate a W rotation as the base is still operational at LGW

[Cyrano]

They don't need to operate a W rotation as the base is still operational at LGW

Have a look at the Aer Lingus timetable page (http://www.aerlingus.com/cgi-bin/obel01im1/bookonline/timeTables.do). Choose "Dublin to London Gatwick" for March 2015 (schedule changeover month). You'll see that EI 248, the late evening flight from DUB to LGW, and EI 231, the early morning departure from LGW to DUB, only operate up until 28 March 2015 - after that, there is no overnighting EI aircraft scheduled in Gatwick.

And as fivejuliet says, there are no gaps in the recently-loaded DUB-LGW or BHD-LGW schedules which would indicate an opportunity to operate NOC-LGW as a W.

[mart901]

Yes Cyrano I'm fully well aware of that but the utilization of those aircraft is not exactly huge and the LGW-DUB route has been cut from the current 7 to 4 rotations, they can easily amend the timetable.
On the point of BHX-NOC I believe they cut this as it was affecting SNN loads, but on the point of it being successful BE have grown it significantly.

[EI-BUD]

Cyrano,
Suggestions made of additional daily frequency on BHD LGW although not confirmed, and a step down in DUB LGW frequency at this stage as per timetable suggests that it is not a complete picture, and they are unlikely to be surrendering slots at LGW, which are like hens teeth.

I'd suggest a bit premature, possibility that a BHD ac could do noc as was the case last year.

EI have invested heavily in NOC LGW route, not about to throw the towel in I'd suggest.

EI-BUD

[Cyrano]

Fair points, gentlemen. If EI adds extra service (BHD-LGW or wherever), they certainly have an opportunity to fit LGW-NOC back in. All I wanted to say was that the current summer 2015 schedule does not include an LGW based aircraft or gaps which would permit an LGW-NOC. Of course this could change - I guess we just have to wait and see.

[airnoc]

Hi All

Found this on IWAK wiki page London-Gatwick [Ends 28 March 2015]

Is this the final of Aer Lingus in IWAK?, and who will take up the route or what the reason for leaving and it was doing with good loads

Is kaunas gone to debt free shannon and is Glasgow finish for good at end of sept?

[EI-A330-300]

Aer Lingus schedule is not complete and won't be for a while.

I'd suggest a bit premature, possibility that a BHD ac could do noc as was the case last year.

Did that happen or was it DUB or LGW. Unions would have a field day if that happened as BHD crew are "not allowed" to operate from the Republic unless they are based in LGW or DUB.

[fivejuliet]

See this link re discontinuation of PIK Ryanair announces new Glasgow routes - The Scotsman (http://m.scotsman.com/news/transport/ryanair-announces-new-glasgow-routes-1-3521832)

[nrm2]

Not totally correct eia330. Bhd crew are 'not allowed' to operate into an ROI base. As NOC is not a base there's no issue. This summer NOC was operated by Lgw crew but last summer was a W pattern by BHD crew

[N707ZS]

Did the scrap man get any more planes?

[mart901]

Looking across the network there's quite a few UK routes not up for sale past March, mainly those with no connections to transatlantic, like NOC.

[mart901]

LGW back on sale for 2015 summer

[iwak]

Good was getting worried there but can't see where the aircraft is based as it doesn't fit with the dub or bhd schedule. Maybe the lgw based aircraft will be flying to destinations yet to be announced .

I see eindhoven or gran canaria are still not bookable! I thought pik performed well considering it was a new route! Thought it deserved a second summer run but fares were very low I suppose!

[mart901]

Well either current DUB/BHD schedules are yet to be amended or LGW base will have schedule put back on, as it is the flights which have been loaded are very similar times, as though it will be LGW base. EI have held firm on LGW-NOC and grown LGW-DUB a lot, considering they pulled out of LGW altogether some years ago saying they were unable to drive trade - I don't suppose they'd want to throw it all away.

[Fly_bill]

Gatwick on sale now for summer 2015 as expected was never in danger of not returning

[onyxcrowle]

Seeing how Knock is pretty close to Beautiful County Galway and Mayo.
Plus Galway city and all it has to offer.
Is there any chance of a route To Doncaster Sheffield. Links air already serve Belfast City.
Also are there flights from Knock to Dublin.
Id like to See Aer Lingus Regional or Links air Do Dsa
After all they used to fly from Leeds to Knock.
Yorkshire would benefit from that link and in return with the right Marketing counties Mayo and Galway would from the Tourist traffic.
Ireland is such a beautiful place (im Half English half welsh and an Irish Great Grandmother).
So perhaps my Celtic connection is making me wonder.
But even better would be to restore to knock the Service to Conemara Airport. Now I don't know how many years since it stopped but I read there used to be one.
I don't know how long the flying tine in an Islander would be to Knock. But it would have to be a oso.
And the boost that would give for the Aran islands in Tourism and Conemara and the south of county Galway. Especially since Galway airport is shut (will it ever reopen? Why did it close)
But id Aer Aran Islands could do Knock
I bet they'd make money
Now the question is. As a side point are there bigger aircraft such as the dornier 328 ot the Let 10 used by City wing which I think seat more.
Could they operate from Conemara? .
I read its 750m long .
But think of the connectivity it could bring.
Any thoughts guys?

[onyxcrowle]

Are there Flights to Leeds Bradford still or East Midlands?
If so which airline. And what times and days do they Operate.
Id like to see Knock to DSA and HUY. Is there any Lillkely hood of that?
Also in Relation to Westport in Mayo is Knock the Nearest or Is Shannon a better bet.
Can I get from Shannon to LBA. Or EMA?
Or is it just Manchester. Plus which carriers would fly those routes?

[Sky Conductor]

onyxcrowle

Try this amazing website called 'Google'. Let us know what you discover!

[Charlie Roy]

onyxcrowle

Ryanair fly from East Midlands to Knock year-round.
Flybe fly from Manchester to Knock year-round.

[confused atco]

Also in Relation to Westport in Mayo is Knock the Nearest or Is Shannon a better bet

I assume you are asking about Westport Co. MAYO?


Knock Airport
Direction and distance from the CITY:
3 NM SW of Charlestown
Post: Ireland West Airport Knock
Connaught Airport,
Development Co. Ltd,
Charlestown Co. Mayo.

Also are there flights from Knock to Dublin.

There was a subsidized service.
Its gone, better roads and EU rules.
Without a subsidy the viability is dubious. Same applied to Galway/Sligo to Dublin services.

But even better would be to restore to knock the Service to Conemara Airport. Now I don't know how many years since it stopped but I read there used to be one.

Can you provide a link to who/when there was a service from Knock to the islands or even Minnea?


Inisheer: all distances are approximate 120kts.
Base turn runway 27 in Knock 62nm approx 32 minutes.
Base turn runway 24 in Shannon 32nm approx 15 min
to Minnea 9nm approx 5 min flying time.

Waste of taxpayers money connecting the Arran islands via Knock or Shannon.

The purpose of the Aer Arran Islands service is to provide connectivity to/from the Islands and the mainland.

Nearest large "Metropolis" is Galway.

The Islands service is to ensure that there is easy access to the mainland and locals are subsidized- don't know about tourists.

Now the question is. As a side point are there bigger aircraft such as the dornier 328 ot the Let 10 used by City wing which I think seat more.
Could they operate from Conemara? .
I read its 750m long .

AIP (http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/iaip/Frame1.htm) Runway is 600m

Use the AIP link and check each island Inisheer 500m
INISHMAAN 534m: INISHMORE 490m.

I am not a pilot but I doubt anything bigger than 10/15 seater would be able to use Minnea/Inisheer/Inishmore or Inishmaan.

While I applaud your enthusiasm I think you need to do a bit more legwork.

[gavinhicks]

it looks like all the new knock routes are gone for 2015. looking at the cso stats kaunas is the best performer with eindhoven performing well only in august. i wonder will ryanair operate Glasgow international next year the numbers seemed to be developing on the prestwick route. Germanwings don't appear to be flying to knock next year,no surprise as the numbers are terrible. I wonder will they move the route to shannon for 2015 it would probably do a lot better.

[iwak]

It is not looking very hopeful at this stage for glasgow or eindhoven and we know kaunas has moved to snn which is a real shame as it had performed very well.

The inbound tourism product seems to prove hard to sell ! I think knock will have to stick to the bucket and spade routes for development.But also it will have to strike a deal with ryanair so it and shannon can grow together without taking routes from each other !


It remains to be seen will ryanair launch summer 2015 from knock like they have done at the other main airports!

Here's hoping for Palma , reus maybe on a w routing ,
, Vilnius (wizzair base) and gdansk Poland ( ryanair base)

Fingers crossed!

[sawtooth]

S15 schedule loaded so far...

FR
NOC - STN 11x M T W T F S S
NOC - STN M – W – F – S
NOC - LTN 9x M T W T F S S
NOC - LTN – – – – F – S
NOC - EMA 5x M – W T F – S
NOC - LPL 5x M T – T F S –
NOC - FAO 4x – T W T – S –z
NOC - BRS 3x – – W – F – S
NOC - ALC 3x – – W – – S S
NOC - BGY 2x – T – – – S –
NOC - ACE 2x – – W – – – S
NOC - AGP 1x – – – – – S –
NOC - TFS 1x – – – T – – –
KUN / EIN / LPA / GLA / GRO not loaded

BE
NOC - BHX (Summer schedule not loaded)
NOC - MAN (Summer schedule not loaded)

EI
NOC - LGW 7x M T W T F S S

Increase on LTN weekend services. Expect GRO or REU will be back. I think some of the euro city routes might have worked in a better economic climate. The Wild Atlantic Way is finally developing a more marketable integrated inbound product, but in it's infancy.

Hard to see FR testing many routes next year given their current focus at SNN and no sign of any movement on capital investment row.

[confused atco]

no sign of any movement on capital investment row.

???
Elaborate please.

[fivejuliet]

GRO is loaded at 2pw but just not on sale. RYR having issues with GRO at the moment and cutting back their base there so not a reflection on NOC

[sawtooth]

???Elaborate please.

Warning contains politics!!

Shorthand – IWAK seems to have fallen out of favour with DOT around the time of the SNN debt deal. Ignored in Aviation Policy document / capital plan.

Longhand–

2005 -2006
IWAK developed master plan for the airport with Scott Wilson aviation consultancy for a phased development of the site to reach a target of 2m passengers by 2030.

2007
Dep. of Transport backing. IWAK were allocated €27m capital investment which was to form part of an overall €46 plan including airport funds (Extending the terminal, upgrade, ILS, equipment and runway safety projects)

2009
Only part of the money was drawn down due to the exchequer cutbacks. Plans for phase 1 Apron Extension, Looping Taxiway, Terminal Peer, Fuel Farm move, long-term parking, reconfigured roads and car hire compound, business park, all mothballed.

2010 -2011
Little capital investment as DOT OPEX and Capital budgets were cut again. Airports finances came under pressure from falling pax spend, loss of PSO.

Enda Kenny privatly "guarantees” IWAK management of capital funding when in Government.

2012
SNN given €100m debt write down, Shannon Development land bank, est €200m investment package.

IWAK claim market distortion, threaten to take legal action in Europe under state aid rules.

Public political row between local TDs over lack of commitment from Government.

Multiple reports commissioned, mostly justifying the airports business case for phased development, costing benefit return to exchequer in tourism access, jobs, bed nights.

Western Development Commission report on regional air access. Highlights lack of road infrastructure, need for direct access.

Mayo Co.Co. Local Area Plan for IWAK site zoning.

Dep. Transport - Value for Money Review of Exchequer Expenditure on the Regional Airports Programme 2010 – "consolidate limited regional airports funding at IWAK"

Dep. Enterprise - Feasibility study Enterprise Shannon Development 2011 – "potential for 300 jobs in a new innovation hub”

Dep. Taoiseach - IWAK Special Study Group Report commissioned under pressure from own party TDs


2013
IWAK Chairman Liam Scollan resigns following dispute with DOT over funding.

"Cat fight" between Taoiseach and Local TD before meeting with IWAK board.

Dep. Taoiseach - IWAK Special Study Group Report published several months late
Recommends: "investment and support of about €36m from a combination of sources including the Exchequer, Local Authorities and business interests, a restructuring of the airport debt and continued operational support to 2019 taking into account EU State Aid guidelines... Stakeholder support to become self sustainable by 2023."

Dep. Transport - Draft Aviation Policy
Does not make reference to IWAK signifigance
Recommends: Regional Airport Capital expenditure (CAPEX) will be limited to safety and security projects up to 75%

2014
Airport secures agreement in principle from 6 local authorities to contribute to airport investment.

No movement on report reccommendations. Political row rolls on with finger pointing between local politicians.

Government TD Michelle Mulhern commissions private report on IWAK
Highlights IWAK growth, strategic position. Points to Inverness airports investment business case as a precedent for EU state aid compliance.
Accuses DOT of bias against the airport.

IWAK Chairman Joe Kennedy publicly calls on Taoiseach to act on his promise at an event attended by him.

DOT announces further cuts capital budge in 2015 ...

[j636]

Unless the airport is at full capacity there is no justification for capital investment. By the looks of the above schedule it will be quieter in 2015.

[confused atco]

Politics, I had to ask.:O:sad:

[sawtooth]

Unless the airport is at full capacity there is no justification for capital investment.

They have run a very lean operation compared to other airports. However Catch 22 for a small airport like NOC. They have to compete large airports and meet airline infrastructure expectations to attract routes and carriers.

Operational support has been cut so they have to reach economies of scale beyond 1.2m pax to become self sufficient financially. Infrastructure is already proving a barrier to growth.


Airside capacity:
Lots of spare capacity in mornings and evenings, but NOC doesn't have much business traffic, mostly low-co/vfr/charter airlines and operates a single 07:00 - 18:00 shift due to funding constraints.

Just 3 category C stands and a single link taxiway. Airline schedules dictate slot times and most FR slots are mid-day hours.

During the summer they regularly have to hold arriving aircraft on the cargo apron, backtrack on the runway, rotate departing aircraft on the small main apron. Looping taxiway would alleviate some of the pressure.

Little capacity for overnight or based aircraft, tech delays, diversions or emergency handling.

No large hangars, no base accommodation.

Larger aircraft block 2 stands and can't be accommodated during busy hours.

US carriers want air bridges, push back towing, catering and additional support services.

Then there are handling, staff and equipment constraints.


Terminal:
Nearing design capacity ... no room for commercial units in departures.

Installed porta-cabins for overflow in summer months. Lots of complaints about queuing in August with just 2 security belts and 1200+ pax transiting in apps 1 hour period.

Likewise just two baggage belts and limited space in small baggage hall.

Carpark and overflow jammed in summer months, no long-term car park and drop off road layout isn't optimal. Car-hire companies severally limited in terms of compound / parking space.


Politics, I had to ask.
Yup!

[onyxcrowle]

What happened to the Leeds Bradford Link? Any chance of It returning.
Or Loganair or Links Air flying Doncaster To Knock.
Also can you Fly to Dublin Cork or Shannon from there?
And forgive if I've asked before ive got a bad memory.
Wasn't there a service from Conemara to Knock by Aer Aran Islands?

[EI-BUD]

Leeds - 738 too big. Tried and tested. Can't see which operator would be well placed to do it. Ie no based airlines at NOC or LBA a good fit.

DSA a long shot from NOC- a Dublin route didn't work for FR or Aer Lingus Regional, and given the volume of pax on BHD DSA , as a bench mark, I'd not wager my bets on a DSA NOC route.

Loganair unlikely to DSA also very unlikely . In my view Loganair are very risk averse, so I can't see them doing this.

No flights to NOC internally. There was a PSO route to DUB for many many years, operated by many carriers including Ryanair, Loganair, Aer Lingus, Ireland Airways etc.

There never had been a flight to Connemara from Knock Airport, besides the distances are too short.

[onyxcrowle]

Thank you for the Answer that cleared that up :)

[iwak]

Anybody any idea when ryanair will properly launch knock summer 2015 as all other irish airports including kerry have been officially launched ! Looking at the schedule we have lost

Glasgow
Kaunas
Las palmas
Eindhoven
Liverpool reduced to 5 wkly

This is nine flights a week lost which will be a big dent in the figures unless some new routes are announced!

[Knock63]

I hear the late FR to STN on Wednesdays has been pulled too from the end of Nov, what's going on up there?? Another half day closing for an 'International Airport'. I'm sure that's going to hit the wages of some of the staff, who I'm sure are already on low pay already. :ugh:

[heneghan_j]

I've regularly viewed this forum as a non-member which has a so much useful information over the past year and I didn't realise other people were as passionate and interested as myself. NOC and FR are my favorite as I use them so often!

Does anyone know when is the latest time that FR can publish routes from NOC for Summer 15, or has it already passed that stage?

I really hope FR can at least bring 1 or 2 routes back like PIK and EIN. I'm currently in the process for applying as Ryanair Ground Crew at Knock for Summer 15 and would love FR's ops to be very busy as in previous years :)

Thanks

[AerArann62W]

Any idea when / if flights to Manchester are going to be bookable with Flybe for Summer 2015? BHX is currently available whilst MAN isn't. It's just Knock and Waterford that are waiting!

[EI-A330-300]

I really hope FR can at least bring 1 or 2 routes back like PIK and EIN. I'm currently in the process for applying as Ryanair Ground Crew at Knock for Summer 15 and would love FR's ops to be very busy as in previous years

EIN, KUN, PIK, LPA all gone. GRO, BGY only scheduled for 2 months instead of 3.5 months (similar to Cork) and LPL reduced. AGP also reduced (early days with that one). GRO actually returning will depend on a deal with GRO so it could be scrapped.

Germanwings pulled their service to.

There is a few extra LON service but 2015 will not be a record year for NOC.

[mart901]

Plenty of time for announcements on summer 2015, nothing happens a long time in advance on such routes. It was later than this in the year that FR announced routes like BVA.

[EI-A330-300]

Mart901

There is nowhere elase in Europe for them to try ex NOC that would be remotely viable. They have explored all the routes with the best chance and all have failed. The only reason GRO and BGY are still around as its Irish people who use them to holiday in Spain are around Lake Garda.

You are right it is early however FR are releasing schedules much earlier. If any sort of route might happen it would have to be PMI.

[iwak]

Yeah I agree route development will be tough for the airport but hopefully as economy picks up this May change!

If flybe don't launch man for summer fr I'd say would jump in 4 wkly or ei regional even but fr would bring volume!

Pmi will hope fully be introduced with reus if it's possible on a w rotation.agp route has more scope than 1 weekly .

Loganair/ flybe saab 2000 gla route 3 per week would surely work or ei regional

Anyway here's hoping some good news comes our way.

[irish lad]

Not sure Ryanair would do Manchester, having just launched daily Shannon service.
Maybe eir if they have the spare capacity

[airnoc]

Live Flight Information

ARRIVALS

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Last update: 20/11/2014 19:24
AirlineFlightTimeOriginRemarks

Ryanair FR805 09:30LONDON STANSTEDCoach from Derry expected at 1600

Ryanair FR6673 10:35LIVERPOOLCoach from Derry expected at 1600


Ryanair FR8142 11:25LONDON LUTONCoach from Dublin expected at 1630

Ryanair FR2359 11:50LANZAROTECoach expected at 1800


Aer Lingus EI911 12:20LONDON GATWICKCoach expected at 1830

FlyBe.com BE1121 12:50BIRMINGHAMCoach expected from Belfast at 1800

Hi All what happen to the ILS for fog landing at IWAK today?
Any word on new routes before there is any more lost to debt free shannon
Thanks

[CONAIR11]

Aircraft need to be above CAT 2 minimums for a CAT 2 ILS approach. You cant blame Shannon for that!

[iwak]

Flybe still don't have manchester bookable for summer 15 .i think this is gone as bhx has been bookable for the last month or so.will be interesting to see what happens in shannon with stobart air leaving will the come to knock? Long shot!

[AerArann62W]

Flybe still don't have manchester bookable for summer 15 .i think this is gone as bhx has been bookable for the last month or so.will be interesting to see what happens in shannon with stobart air leaving will the come to knock? Long shot!
Flybe say that the remaining routes for Summer 2015 will be released soon (in the coming days). NOC-MAN & WAT-MAN are awaiting schedules if they are to return, so lets hope we both get some good news in the coming days!:)

[Kinocker]

No chance of Stobart coming to Knock, they're heading for Donegal to get the PSO cash I believe.

From a personal perspective today's news means that, for the first time in a long time, there will be no direct flights from any Scottish airports to any west of Ireland airports.

[Runway_approach]

Manchester is certainly not gone and I understand it will be on sale during the week interesting to see stobart air CEO stSnding down after just six months in the job - I'm sure that's a wake up call fur shannon now with just ryanair essentially servicing their uk network - just shows the market for carriers is very small

[Kinocker]

I see a rumour elsewhere that Enda will be at Knock on Monday. Anyone know if it is (firstly) true and (secondly) regarding anything worthwhile? Knock could do with a positive announcement as there have been no new route announcements to date this winter. Even if it is not regarding new routes some news of development of the airport facility or its surroundings (business part etc.) would be welcome.

[Knock63]

I'd imagine that if Enda Kenny isn't bringing good news for IWAK on Monday then somebody there will purchase a one way ticket out of there for him!!:)

[sawtooth]

Last visit was just playing sidecar to Michael O'Leary route announcement.

[mart901]

You reckon MOL be playing Santa Claus at NOC as well as SNN on Monday? If he does make it to NOC I'd imagine it will be another round of euro routes and who knows maybe another UK.

[Runway_approach]

Expect ryanair to announce they picking up the aer Arann routes at shannon Monday and prob more - no big announcement expected Monday at knock - a further sign shannon flexing their new found financial power! Gonna be tough for knock to compete unfortunately!

[Kinocker]

Expect ryanair to announce they picking up the aer Arann routes at shannon Monday and prob more - no big announcement expected Monday at knock - a further sign shannon flexing their new found financial power! Gonna be tough for knock to compete unfortunately!

Well the current rumour mill would beg to differ regarding the Shannon situation (Clare Herald reporting that the visit is for a passenger milestone) but it is all conjecture at this stage.

[AerRyan]

Sadly, it looks like knock has failed to get any new routes for 2015. It has lost several routes in the contrary, and expect it to lose more. Very disapointing

[Runway_approach]

Agree aer Ryan reality is shannon now have the financial muscle (thanks to govt bailout) to really target routes from knock - Kaunas and cologne prime examples - any word on what further routes you expect them to lose?

[AerRyan]

Shannon did not get a government bailout. The debt was kept with the DAA when shannon was separated.

[Cozy F]

Shades of grey, Aer?! :E

[Angry Rebel]

@aerryan and they were handed a property portfolio of >€100m, and special tax treatment for the Shannon area...and...and...and.....

You're right bailout is the wrong term as that implies they were broke, sweetheart deal is more accurate.

[confused atco]

And we are off!:D

[AerRyan]

And and and...... what?
A new government title was established, debt free as normal.

If you would like to tell me how the property portfolio actually affects Shannon Airport in anyway, I would love to challenge you on those points.
Special tax treatment? I haven't even heard that claim ever being made.

A new government title was established, debt free as normal.

Special tax treatment? I haven't even heard that claim ever being made.

If you could send me these challenges in PM that would be great, we dont want to de-rail a perfectly good thread.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Knock has lost 5 routes for 2015 and possibly a 6th could be lost soon. 3 of the lost routes has been newly introduced by Ryanair.

The lost routes are:

Kaunas, Lithuania Newly introduced for 2014 but now transferred to Shannon (Ryanair)
Eindhoven, Holland Newly introduced for 2014 but will not continue for 2015 (Ryanair)
Prestwick (Glasgow), Scotland Newly introduced for 2014 but will not continue for 2015 (Ryanair)
Gran Canaria, Spain Will not continue for 2015 (Ryanair)
Cologne, Germany Possibly Transferred to shannon (GermanWings)


The other route at threat:

Manchester Not confirmed to continue for 2015.


What did enda do while at Knock on monday? Did he just look at the airport?

[confused atco]

Cologne, Germany Possibly Transferred to shannon (GermanWings)
No concrete details either way so lets leave this as a maybe.
Prestwick (Glasgow), Scotland Newly introduced for 2014 but will not continue for 2015 (Ryanair)
Gran Canaria, Spain Will not continue for 2015 (Ryanair)
Eindhoven, Holland Newly introduced for 2014 but will not continue for 2015 (Ryanair)
Not being offered rather than been transferred to Shannon.

Kaunas, Lithuania Newly introduced for 2014 but now transferred to Shannon (Ryanair)

So you have lost 1 definitely to Shannon.
And I have my doubts about the veracity of the Germanwings (https://www.germanwings.com/en.html) (Website only lists Dublin (https://www.germanwings.com/en/booking/offers/cheap-flights.html#angebote) as available in Ireland and when you try book from Germany Shannon is not available as an optional destination))transfer so a maybe.

The others have been cancelled entirely from the west?

[CONAIR11]

Passengers and tourists are being lost to DUBLIN every day, tens of thousand of them yet we in the west blame the each other for losing a few hundred. Shannon and Knock will always struggle for new business and operators will come and go frequently as they have at SNN for many decades. This Business is a cyclic wave and airports have to ride it or fall. While Knock has probably maxed out this year it is only last year since SNN was at the other end of the scale. SNN lost a load of business when FR pulled out before and Knock traffic boomed even though the country was entering its worst recession and Knock management got all the credit.

[Angry Rebel]

I'll respond in public as it's relevant to the thread and I'd prefer to answer your challenges rather than leave them hanging!

The property portfolio gives them another income stream (the rent roll) with which they can do whatever they want. If they want to build new warehouses they can do that, but if they wanted to use that income to do things in the airport they can do that as well.

Why is debt free normal? Assets have been developed and paid for by daa with debt, and then in the separation the asset goes but the debt stays (with daa). That's not normal. The same thing didn't happen with Cork?!

The tax treatment I mention is proposals under the draft National Aviation Policy as opposed to anything in the separation bill. That proposes a variety of schemes (initially only for Shannon but then widened to all to avoid State Aid issues). The reality is the infrastructure in Shannon makes the proposed schemes most applicable to Shannon and not that relevant to anyone without hangarage, extensive parking etc.

In addition the International Aviation Services Centre is proposed for Shannon, which would be fine if there was a debate around it or some level of competitive tendering between all airports to get it. There wasn't, needless to say.

[Runway_approach]

Very good points angry rebel and right on the money - it's obvious shannon got a very good deal from govt and good luck to them - what is interesting to see is ryanair will once again be the dominant carrier serving UK and European mainland routes - the regional irish market is simply not attractive enough or profitable enough to attract any major legacy carriers outside of ryanair who clearly have a very attractive deal - aviation is very cyclical and the likes of knock shannon and cork will continue to see traffic fluctuate up and down with all hugely reliant on ryanair to grow traffic as no other carriers will deliver the growth - this is clear in the fact that Dublin is the attractive market for the major carriers - with five new airlines secured for next year

[Kinocker]

Well it looks like something is finally about to happen, debt deal done with the local authorities to allow a funding announcement to be made in the new year. Hopefully it comes to something more than lip service from the government this time around and we can finally see the airport given the chance to build on the progress of the last five or six years.

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=21132:historic-deal-saves-knock-airport&catid=23:news&Itemid=46

[EI-A330-300]

Why do they need funding. The airport will be in decline and cuts by 2 or 3 airlines.

They will never break the million mark or 40 routes. We need to be realistic here!

[Runway_approach]

Was shannon not in terminal decline when they hit their recent investment package?? Obviously investment is great news as will hopefully enable the airport to compete in securing new services

[Kinocker]

Why do they need funding.

The airport will be in decline and cuts by 2 or 3 airlines.



Erm...that's probably why they need funding.

I don't know about 40 routes but 1m passengers is certainly achievable in time given that they're at about 700k for 2014.

Some funding plus not having a debt bill hanging over them would hopefully allow them to retain and establish the marginal routes they are currently losing. If they could somehow get themselves into a position where they could drop the development fee that would lead to an inevitable upsurge in passenger numbers.

[AerRyan]

1million would be pushing it. I expect knock to reach around 800,000 this year (2014), 700,000 next year (2015), and back to 800,000 the year after that (2016) then settle around there for the foreseeable future. And thats an optimistic forecast.

[Centre cities]

Looks like the BHX may be gone, not bookable for summer at the moment.

Centre cities