IRELAND WEST AIRPORT KNOCK

[sawtooth]

Sorry Jamie I disagree on the name. Knock means nothing to anyone outside Ireland, and it had negative connotations for air travellers within Ireland other than locals (small, politics, bad roads, weather, religious history, years of negative media etc). There is no major city or global name nearby, Galway isn't a runner, and they tried Connaught, Horan, Knock. Last thing it needs is another name change!

I think IWAK was a masterstroke in positioning and very forward looking (what could be clearer "Ireland > West > Airport"). It turned a vice (rural location) into a virtue (central axis in large W/NW region). The re-brand was the beginning of the airports growth phase and the device off which their marketing strategy has developed. I'd say "knock" was only kept to appease the locals. It also gives surrounding counties buy-in as "their" local airport.

The "West of Ireland" is the repetitional brand associated with tourism, rugged scenery, traditional culture, ancestry, Irish hospitality. The name puts the airport on the map as the gateway to that region and stamped their ambition to fulfil their mandated role as an economic and tourism driver of the West.

FG Politics
As to your other replies, it's not that any one of those points aren't valid, but taken together show the Government are still stalling on the issue despite the report smokescreen, that was my point.

HHN/BVA
Everyone knew these were a big ask (especially starting with a 738 mid depression) and dependant on generating inbound demand (at a time when national reputation was in the mud in Germany). MOL warned they would only work with support. All the talk from Tourism Ireland, Minister, Taoiseach, stake holders at the time of launch was about putting resources in place to promote in those markets, integrated plans.

IWAK say Tourism Ireland wouldn't set targets, didn't start marketing until halfway through the season. The airport secured their own €1+ million marketing fund from local county councils. All too late though, FR happy to keep SNN/NOC guessing this year while the bailout debate goes on.

[CelticRambler]

You can put too much emphasis on a name. Would any outsider know where "JFK" or "Charles de Gaulle" airports are if they didn't already know? If it's in Knock, call it Knock and Google Maps will do the rest. In my catchment of geographically challenged travellers "Ireland West" means Cork and Kerry, so without help, they translate that into Shannon.

[ryan2000]

Hahn seems to be working for Kerry. It's operating there for over a decade now. Germans traditionally travelled to the West on Charters to Shannon operated on behalf of DER Tours. Up to 12 flights would arrive every Saturday's for many years and most of the tourists headed for what is now very much the Knock catchment area. Surprised it didn't work.

[Jamie2k9]

I agree that it needs to be marketed in a different way in other countries and Ireland West sounds about the best name.

Agree the name is not suited to the region it covers as it dosn't cover the whole West.

There is no major city or global name nearby, Galway isn't a runner, and they tried Connaught, Horan, Knock. Last thing it needs is another name change!


Well going through so many names does it no favors for people outside of Ireland. Ireland West needs to be dropped and just left Kncok. A number of destinations that are served from NOC have Connaught-Knock displayed at there airports. So the name IWAK is a jock as no airport apart form NOC itself use it.

HHN/BVA
Everyone knew these were a big ask (especially starting with a 738 mid depression) and Dependant on generating inbound demand (at a time when national reputation was in the mud in Germany). MOL warned they would only work with support. All the talk from Tourism Ireland, Minister, Taoiseach, stake holders at the time of launch was about putting resources in place to promote in those markets, integrated plans.

IWAK say Tourism Ireland wouldn't set targets, didn't start marketing until halfway through the season. The airport secured their own €1+ million marketing fund from local county councils. All too late though, FR happy to keep SNN/NOC guessing this year while the bailout debate goes on.

Don't agree about out reputation being in the mud as your average person is not going to base a decision on weather or not to go to Ireland because we bailed them out etc. When HHN was at SNN it was a fairly weak route to but it did better than NOC. For some strange reason HHN works from KIR. I would go say its also a very marginal route from DUB to. BVA on the other hand should of work without much marketing. It had LF of over 90% when it was the only link to Paris from SNN. I don't see these routes will be going to SNN, although SNN are looking at a Paris connection but it won't be with FR.

You can put too much emphasis on a name. Would any outsider know where "JFK" or "Charles de Gaulle" airports are if they didn't already know? If it's in Knock, call it Knock and Google Maps will do the rest. In my catchment of geographically challenged travelers "Ireland West" means Cork and Kerry, so without help, they translate that into Shannon

We're talking about a small regional airport and not two of the busiest airports in the world. A big difference know them and its easier by the fact those cities have 3 or 4 airports.

Lack of urban area near NOC doesn't favor it as most people coming here will base themselves in a city for many reasons such as transport, good accommodation, easy to get information etc.

[Mayfly1]

Good to see the extra Saturday rotations added for June/July on Alicante for summer 13 bringing it back to 3/week, and despite loss of routes pax etc it looks like pax numbers will be close to 2012 levels, well done to the team at IWAK for maintaining focus on the business

[CelticRambler]

We're talking about a small regional airport and not two of the busiest airports in the world. A big difference know them and its easier by the fact those cities have 3 or 4 airports.

Lack of urban area near NOC doesn't favor it as most people coming here will base themselves in a city for many reasons such as transport, good accommodation, easy to get information etc.

:confused: Anyone planning a trip to the west of Ireland is most certainly not thinking of basing themselves in a city, so the lack of urban area should work in Knock's favour. If it doesn't, maybe that's because the airport management are trying (like so many other regional airports) to be the next Schipol/Frankfurt/CdG/Heathrow, instead of promoting the facility as the very best point of entry for "empty space" tourism and business. Chasing after a seventies-style, legacy-airline, big-city business traveller is a waste of time.

And charging people to leave through the airside doors shows a definite lack of commercial realism (or too much time spent at the O'Leary school of economics).

[Knock63]

How else are they supposed to survive? Any pertinent reply would be beneficial. Maybe you think there's gold in the hills the airports built on.
I've NO problem contributing to the brilliant service the folk at IWAK provide, raise it to €15 or maybe €20 I say.

[takingoff]

When you look at 'Taxes/Fees' just above 'Total Price' in the select phase when booking on Ryanair you will notice that the taxes and fees are actually €10 cheaper at Knock Airport in comparison to Dublin airport. The €10 you pay at Knock evens the total taxes/fees you pay over all, making it the same total cost as Dublin. In the end you are not paying anymore in fee/taxes. I know charging €10 at the gate isn’t ideal but you simply aren’t paying anymore.

Besides you save on car parking costs at Knock. Parking literally 2 minutes away from the terminal when compared to the more expensive short term parking beside Dublin airport.

The airport is governed by a trust where all profits are re-invested in the Airport. I have no link to, or family employed by, the airport, but after a fair few years living in the UK see it as a god send for getting home. Wish more people would get behind the airport instead of constantly criticising a facility that is there to service the community.

[Jamie2k9]

And charging people to leave through the airside doors shows a definite lack of commercial realism (or too much time spent at the O'Leary school of economics).

Indeed it should be included in the airports charges as its very miss leading to passengers and they have a cheek marketing it as an development fee when in fact its a fee to cover operations which should be payed by the airlines and passengers pay the airlines. Its doing no favors to people outside Ireland. One thing is certain airlines are making extra profits by not taking it so its the passenger that loosing out in the end.

Besides you save on car parking costs at Knock. Parking literally 2 minutes away from the terminal when compared to the more expensive short term parking beside Dublin airport.


Parking is cheaper at Dublin, a few people complaining about it on the FB page but the great staff at NOC have nothing better to be doing but posting digs to the DAA or SNN.

[iwak]

On a positive note we have extra Malaga and alicante services over peak summer and flybe have added an extra sat service for summer timetable on Manchester route.

I think the aer lingus lgw departure time is too early at 12.45 the existing 16 50 departure time is better for weekend travel .

All in all I think we may see a slight increase in pax this summer thanks to extra services on London routes which will be well supported unlike euro routes last summer.

we need jet service on man route to bring back pax numbers which were had in the past.

Looking forward to seeing badly needed new ei regional atr 72 600s when they enter service in may.hopefully it will be. Regular on bhx route.

[Jamie2k9]

Looking forward to seeing badly needed new ei regional atr 72 600s when they enter service in may.hopefully it will be. Regular on bhx route.

Don't think NOC will see them, DUB will have there fleet replaced and the 500's based there will go to SNN, ORK and replace some of the 200's there.

[sawtooth]

we need jet service on man route to bring back pax numbersI do think the props are a factor in MAN numbers. For years only prop NOC users would have experienced was DUB route which was a very poor service, regular cancellations and shaky landings in the old dirty noisy 42s in winter weather. Q400 was luxury by comparison but that's the perception.

The prop/jet point is often dismissed and of course it's better to have an economical route and frequency, but that usually means higher average fares also. Even on newer ATRs you'll still see people on social media complaining about downgrade of DUB-UK routes to EIR, like this week:

Tw*et "Does this mean EI removing AirBus from Dub>Man route? Ewww"

Indeed it should be included in the airports charges as its very miss leading to passengers ...


Doubt anyone would disagree, but it is a reality they wouldn't survive in absence of an alternative revenue channel. It started as a dev fee at a time when duty free and other ancillary revenue (and subsidy) disappeared, clearly now it's become of core funding.

I don't think it's easy to backtrack now, while dropping it might attract more users, FR would kick up a right stink and possibly pull routes if charges were passed back to them, other marginal routes like EDI would go.

The dev fee probably indirectly stimulates demand by keeping airline charges and overall fares down. I don't see it going until they get a stable funding source from Government, develop income from business park and aviation services and pax numbers pass 1m.

Parking is cheaper at Dublin....

Depends where you park. I do agree parking fees could be lower, they did have very good weekend deals back in 2007, €27 parking on top of the dev fee does sting a bit for a weekend away. Again they have said it's core revenue source so same problem exists.

I'll still always choose convenience, ease and time saving of direct local air service and it's almost always cheaper in my experience all in.

[SealinkBF]

How much of a detriment do we think the departure tax has?

I have a few pals at work (here in London) from Westport and they will often fly to Knock, but come home from SNN or DUB as they say "You have to pay extra to fly from Knock".

Last year I flew to Knock but flew home from Dublin. Admittedly that was to try the new Southend service :-) but I do remember the feeling when I read about the extra charge. It wasn't to check what the overall taxes were.

[sawtooth]

I have a few pals at work (here in London) from Westport and they will often fly to Knock, but come home from SNN or DUB as they say "You have to pay extra to fly from Knock".

Sorry that's the daftest thing I've ever heard. By booking 2 separate flights they would have had to pay double the credit card charges, not to mention additional transport costs and hassle. cost.

Are you sure it wasn't down to lack of late flights to get back to UK for work they chose SNN / DUB for services? Sounds more plausible.

How much of a detriment do we think the departure tax has?


Interesting question, I think it's polarising and does have a negative impact. Very often people don't look past headline fare and just see it as additional cost. Many are happy, some eager even to support a great local service. But clearly, others find this model of a gate fee galling, even if they'd pay it through ticket fees elsewhere.

[SealinkBF]

People generally buy on emotion, and rationalise with logic afterwards.

That's why booking open-jaw doesn't make logical sense, but the reasons they gave is that departure tax.

[CelticRambler]

When you look at 'Taxes/Fees' just above 'Total Price' in the select phase when booking on Ryanair you will notice that the taxes and fees are actually €10 cheaper at Knock Airport in comparison to Dublin airport. The €10 you pay at Knock evens the total taxes/fees you pay over all, making it the same total cost as Dublin. In the end you are not paying anymore in fee/taxes. I know charging €10 at the gate isn’t ideal but you simply aren’t paying anymore.

Ryanair's "Taxes/Fees" line means nothing, and I've travelled on plenty of tickets where the T/F was described as zero. If I'm being asked to pay 10€ to get to the departure gate, then that is asking me to pay "more". It falls into the same category as the supposed "administration fee" for card payments ... and parking charges for that matter.

"This is a service charge which the Airport charges for the use of its facilities and as a contribution toward infrastructure developments, including passenger and airline services, ongoing maintenance and operation of this airport. "

When an airport decides to associate itself with a LoCo carrier, it should appreciate that LoCo passengers are prepared to put up with all kinds of hassle and poor service. Michael O'Leary says he doesn't care if the terminal is a shed in a field (many of his EU destinations are little more than that) the airport is asking passengers to pay for services that they don't want, the very definition of a rip-off.

The guys from Westport are right - it is cheaper to not fly from Knock, because Dublin and Shannon do not force you to pay 10€ to get to your flight. It's mostly departing passengers that use the shopping and catering facilities, so they're already contributing to the running costs. Other landside costs are irrelevant because few people live on the airport's doorstep, and it might in fact be cheaper for someone to get from Westport to Dublin than Westport to Charlestown.

Unfortunately, for me - someone very interested in developing connections to the West & North Western corner of Ireland - the image of "Knock" is one of a rip-off airport primarily served by a rip-off airline ... and I would have been one of the enthusiastic supporters of Horan International as it was once upon a time.

[sawtooth]

Right so what's your solution? How do we get to full service carrier serving 25 routes and a solvent operating airport business with no fees or parking charges?

[Cyrano]

Right so what's your solution? How do we get to full service carrier serving 25 routes and a solvent operating airport business with no fees or parking charges?

You're being funny, right? You don't get there from here. No disrespect to NOC but no airport with its catchment size can aspire to anything like that.

[Knock63]

:ugh:Don't think you'll get much of a reply if any from Celtic 'whatever' his name was. 100+ staff wages to find let alone EVERYTHING else that's needed to pay out for with NO MAJOR bail-outs from gvmnt.
All the airport are looking for is a bit of stability and fairness in these needy times, an airport that are trying to broaden their shoulders and dig their feet firmly in the quicksand of these hard times.
€10 for goodness sake, hardly a bank breaker to the many. Such a positive place for the West of Ireland, all I can see is Shannon and Dub supporters trying to put IWAK down, or should I say cowering in a corner, hiding behind the hands of Government.

[takingoff]

Rambler, good username by the way. After reading your post the term begrudger springs to mind. Like another poster said, list us visible solutions to the €10 development charge and I'm sure we'll be all ears. What other way can the airport say open and run properly with a charge of this sort, they do not receive large amounts from the government to dig themselves out of holes.

Knowing the roads around Knock this whole cheaper flying out of Dublin from Westport is a silly argument. It takes 45 minutes from Westport to Knock (55k) and 3.5 hours from Westport to Dublin airport (260k). So when you factor in the additional 205k in petrol, tolls and most importantly time (which is most valuable to me) your telling me it's cheaper to fly from Dublin, I'm sorry I've done the calculations on numerous occasions and Knock simply works out better. Just think logically for a minute Rambler, in a return trip how much is 5 hours of your time worth to you, then put on the 410k in petrol (bear in mind fuel is not cheap these days) plus the tolls plus the godforsaken thought of that long drive for what might be a weekend at home. I'm laughing now about your remark that it's cheaper to fly out of Dublin/Shannon because of the €10 development charge! :-)

Honestly, if this story is genuine about lads from Westport, it's more to do with the timing of flights than the price flying from Knock. Without going overboard on how good Knock is, as I know it has it's downsides, it is a reasonable airport to fly out off.

[sawtooth]

You're being funny, right

What do you think?

It's easy to diss the place, calling for end of fees and parking and magic unicorns, but they wont suggest an viable alternative. Wonder why.

[Mayfly1]

Folks, the travelling public vote with their feet and pockets...the reality IS Knock is good value for money and convenient to almost 700,000 customers using the airport, despite the development fee! And in fact it's been paid the ultimate compliment by national government having to bail out the loss making practically bankrupt state owned airport Shannon that was on the way out until its been bailed out. Government now clearly wishes to penalise knock for its success and ensure its own airports remain.
Nobody is forcing passengers to use Knock, if people don't wish to use it then they are perfectly entitled to go to other airports ....however for some strange reason this is not happening as the passenger numbers indicate ...despite all the begrudgers who want to think otherwise

[mart901]

Thankyou Mayfly1. At last some sense.

[ryan2000]

In some ways nothing has changed for Knock. Shannon has been bailed out by the Government but all along, year in and year out it was being bailed out by the DAA and before them by Aer Rianta. If they go down the road of throwing money at airlines to fly there they will again become a financial basket case. Knock has grown to this level in spite of all these bail outs. The priority now should be for it to attract a hub carrier to LHR, CDG or AMS as well as growth in its sun destinations once the economy starts to recover.

Flights geared towards inbound tourists are proving very difficult to sustain at all of the airports outside of Dublin.

[Knock63]

:DMayfly, Mart and Ryan :D

[CelticRambler]

How do we get to full service carrier serving 25 routes and a solvent operating airport business with no fees or parking charges?

Cyrano said it: with or without departing passenger penalties, you don't. Right now Knock can possibly claim four "full service carrier" destinations.

What other way can the airport say open and run properly with a charge of this sort, they do not receive large amounts from the government to dig themselves out of holes.

People in glasshouses ... From the airport's website: On 21 February 2007, the Irish Government announced that it was giving €27 million of capital grant money to Ireland West Airport.

Maybe in 21st century post-tiger Ireland 27m€ doesn't count as "large amounts" but from where I'm sitting, that's a fair sized handout.

Knowing the roads around Knock this whole cheaper flying out of Dublin from Westport is a silly argument. It takes 45 minutes from Westport to Knock (55k) and 3.5 hours from Westport to Dublin airport (260k). So when you factor in the additional 205k in petrol, tolls and most importantly time (which is most valuable to me) your telling me it's cheaper to fly from Dublin, I'm sorry I've done the calculations on numerous occasions and Knock simply works out better. Just think logically for a minute Rambler, in a return trip how much is 5 hours of your time worth to you, then put on the 410k in petrol (bear in mind fuel is not cheap these days) plus the tolls plus the godforsaken thought of that long drive for what might be a weekend at home. I'm laughing now about your remark that it's cheaper to fly out of Dublin/Shannon because of the €10 development charge! :-)

All this assumes that irrational humans behave like good little mathematical models. They don't. If your man in Westport has a brother who works in Dublin and gets a lift back on a Sunday evening or a Monday morning, it costs him nothing, compared to Knock's 10€ get-out-of-here fee. Thinking logically does not apply to people booking or travelling by air. If it did, they'd pay for safety, they'd pay for comfort, they'd read terms and conditions, they'd add up the whole cost of their trip ... but they don't. They see cheap Ryanair headline fares and "rip-off" departure charges (this is the No1 complaint on travellers' reviews of Knock).

Of the 700k passengers passing through Knock, I calculate approximately 500k of those use Ryanair. We all know that MO'L is proud to offer a bus service. That means for 71% of passengers Knock is just a glorified bus stop. That's not begrudgery - that's reality.

A couple of decades ago, shops in France used to charge you to go in and have a look around. They eventually figured out that it put people off. What's one of the biggest complaints of today's town centre traders in Ireland - parking charges. When you've got a public-facing business, you do everything possible to encourage the public to come in, not charge them for the privilege of your existence.

Right now, Knock has a captive audience and can extort its 10€, but that makes it vulnerable. The day travellers decide they can get better value for money elsewhere, that source of income will dry up and it sounds like there's nothing in place to replace it. In today's economic climate, there is only one 'visible solution' - be different, be (really) original. Unfortunately, while Knock could be an amazingly unique airport, it isn't. It's just yet another small regional airport with high hopes and no commercial imagination.

And before you ask (again): no, I'm not going to give you a list of what could be done. That's my business, and reserved for somewhere else. But don't worry - we won't be trying to take your Ryanair passengers away. :E

[Jamie2k9]

First off if a ADF is being changed its needs to be a legal requirment to inform passengers under EU or Irish law and this is why Ryanair are getting away with not informing them.

People in glasshouses ... From the airport's website: On 21 February 2007, the Irish Government announced that it was giving €27 million of capital grant money to Ireland West Airport.

Maybe in 21st century post-tiger Ireland 27m€ doesn't count as "large amounts" but from where I'm sitting, that's a fair sized handout.

I'm not sure how much of that was received as WAT didn't receive there full funding for the runway but what is correct the Goverment has invested a lot in airport devolpment over the last few years. Nobody can dispute this so don't try to.

What other way can the airport say open and run properly with a charge of this sort, they do not receive large amounts from the government to dig themselves out of holes.

They could stay open when airline/passengers charges cover the operatioal costs and not taxing passengers a second time when they come through the door.

Folks, the travelling public vote with their feet and pockets...the reality IS Knock is good value for money and convenient to almost 700,000 customers using the airport, despite the development fee! And in fact it's been paid the ultimate compliment by national government having to bail out the loss making practically bankrupt state owned airport Shannon that was on the way out until its been bailed out. Government now clearly wishes to penalise knock for its success and ensure its own airports remain.
Nobody is forcing passengers to use Knock, if people don't wish to use it then they are perfectly entitled to go to other airports ....however for some strange reason this is not happening as the passenger numbers indicate ...despite all the begrudgers who want to think otherwise

Nobody is saying otherwise about how great it is but think how many passengers in 2012 landed at check in and were told pay to leave when they payed for an airline ticket which is suposed to have airport charges included. Its fine for Irish people paying but for people coming into Ireland it creates a very bad impression and will not help NOC attract other carriers in future.

[ryan2000]

The passenger charge is probably not the foremost item on people's minds when it comes to choosing Knock or Dublin.

The actual fare or time and day of the flight weighs more heavily when they decide. Very often passengers decide when and where they want to go and then find a flight that suits their needs. Loyalty to an airport doesn't even enter their minds!

In general provincial passengers tend to put up with the hassle of travelling to the Capital City airport rather than vice versa. How many Dublin people would travel to Knock or Cork to save a few euro?

[Knock63]

I know for a fact that some pax are driving from Dub to IWAK to save money. I was talking to some people quite recently that said they saved €600 (between 3 of them) by flying from IWAK.

[Mayfly1]

As stated earlier passengers and the market decides which airport they will use and Knock despite all the "negatives " being portrayed here by some contributors defies the critics with strong growth .
I wonder why?

On the state aid issue mgt at the airport are on the record stating that it received €15m of the €27m approved under T21 before the shutters came down, and matched this with another €15m of airport money to carry out the terminal upgrade, ILS CAT 11, RESA etc.

This compares with €1.6 billion yes billon spent by the state owned DAA on the 3 state airports or 100 times what was granted to Knock. And as part of this €160 million was spent on the terminal and US border post in Shannon, or more than 10 times what was spent in Knock in the same period. To further compound this gov has now decided to bail out Shannon further with another €300m to ensure its survival .....and pay Knock lip service and tell them as recently quoted by minister Varadkar on mid west radio that its a "model airport" and that he uses it as an example to other airports on how they should run their business....if only this was true and gov would take on the DAA and now SAA monopoly in regard to running of airports. At the end of the day gov will ultimate decide on what happens Knock through aviation policy and mgt can only do what it can to try and present the facts to the region it serves

[Jamie2k9]

As stated earlier passengers and the market decides which airport they will use and Knock despite all the "negatives " being portrayed here by some contributors defies the critics with strong growth .
I wonder why?

Our European friends don't have the same view as us Irish, wonder why?

This compares with €1.6 billion yes billon spent by the state owned DAA on the 3 state airports or 100 times what was granted to Knock. And as part of this €160 million was spent on the terminal and US border post in Shannon, or more than 10 times what was spent in Knock in the same period. To further compound this gov has now decided to bail out Shannon further with another €300m to ensure its survival .....and pay Knock lip service and tell them as recently quoted by minister Varadkar on mid west radio that its a "model airport" and that he uses it as an example to other airports on how they should run their business....if only this was true and gov would take on the DAA and now SAA monopoly in regard to running of airports. At the end of the day gov will ultimate decide on what happens Knock through aviation policy and mgt can only do what it can to try and present the facts to the region it serves

State owned DAA airports who are not looking for handouts from the Government, so they are intitled to spend it on improving facilities and most of it was badly needed.

Still on the bailout SNN news story, they would of received this 100 million over a few years if under the DAA, same difference when you think about it. If it wasn't for the DAA NOC would not be where it is today with the level of Ryaniar passengers. FR didn't want to know NOC back in 2006/7 compared to today.

So its fine for the DAA to give SNN millions yearly but its not for the Government.


I know for a fact that some pax are driving from Dub to IWAK to save money. I was talking to some people quite recently that said they saved €600 (between 3 of them) by flying from IWAK.

Its very few and that story seems a little far fetched in my book and it could be seen as a negative to NOC as carriers need to charge low amounts to get people on seats which won't be sustainable long term. and does that 600 saving include price of fuel to NOC, parking at NOC and ADF fee.

[CONAIR11]

All sorts of figures and wild statements been thrown around here. 300 million bailout. It wouldnt call it a bailout and it certainly wasnt 300m. Shannon didnt really have much say in its operation up untill now so it would not have been fair to expect it to maintain a legacy debt when gaining independence. If you really want to get into the details of the debt then dont convenientaly forget to mention Aer Rianta International.

[Mayfly1]

The €300m figure is being quoted publicly by mgt at Knock and various other public representatives, and I have not seen any government spokesperson deny this. Need one say more? If its not €300m plus then why dosent government publish the details of what the bailout package really is and be transparent nad dont hide behind the door? i think the reason is obvious why they wont do this .....It's made up of debt write off (€100m) , land assets transfer (€90m+), pension liability write off (€80m combined) , annual rent roll into airport €10m plus annually, once off cash payment to new airport company €6m plus, need we go on?

[Kinocker]

And even then they're not happy, still banging on about Aer Rianta International...

[fivejuliet]

And even then they're not happy, still banging on about Aer Rianta International...

With all due respect, I have not heard that mentioned since the start of January. I think they're over it.

[CONAIR11]

Seriously Mayfly I would love to know what land assetts transfer took place to the value of 90m?

[Angry Rebel]

@conair11 - The property portfolio of Shannon Development.

[takingoff]

Can anyone confirm the East Midlands - Knock rotation from April onwards?

If I am correct the Friday flight is changing to Saturday.

[Knock63]

Welcome Takingoff, As far as I can work out it's moved from Fri to Sat morning, Arrive Noc 09:45----- Dep Noc 10:10

[takingoff]

Thanks. To be fair the route on Saturday and it's timing works well with the return flight on Sunday at 18:40. People commuting to the East midlands areas or going getting away for the weekend get two near full days in the West.

[takingoff]

Any idea on pax numbers for January/February? I know these are slower months route wise but still interesting to note.

What are people thoughts on passenger numbers for 2013? I hope they can maintain the 685,000 from 2012. Realistically any growth on that would be an unbelievable achievement.

[sawtooth]

January provisional highlights:
EMA +74%
LGW +13%
STN -13%
MAN -14%
BHX - 49%

[takingoff]

I think in January 2012 it was 31,000 odd and 30,000 odd in 2010. Will 2013 follow these figures?

Please correct me if I'm wrong but is BHX low because of the smaller ATR 72 aer lingus regional fly compared to the larger capacity on bmibaby?

[Cian]

And a Dash8 vs a 737 for MAN?

[Kinocker]

They'll be doing well to get near last years' figures with Leeds, Beauvais and Hahn gone and the capacity reduction on Birmingham and Manchester. The extra London flights will help but it is only four rotations per week, albeit the loads should be good on a 738. 650k might be a realistic estimate overall?

Edit - forgot about Malaga, 650k should be achievable alright when you add that in. 675k would be really good going.

[takingoff]

If anything 650K will be some going, fingers crossed. Although a long shot maybe 'The Gathering' will drum up a few more tourists from the UK over the summer months however I wouldn't hold my breath!!

Is it too late for any new flights for the forthcoming summer to be announced? Where they could come from is the question although it does suprise me at times theres no link to Eastern Europe/Poland from Knock. Would have thought there would be a decent amount of demand from Sligo/Galway.

[EI-A330-300]

Flybe restore the Tue and Thur MAN flights from 22 May, it will then be back daily for the remaining summer schedule.

[takingoff]

Route – PAX Carried – Up/Down on February 2012 – Percentage change of Total

Gatwick – 5024 - down 307 PAX -6
Luton - Not available
Stansted – 6891 - down 381 PAX -5
Birmingham – 1437 - down 1805 PAX -56
Bristol – 2166 - No Feb 2011 Figures
East Midlands – 3672 - up 390 PAX +12
Edinburgh - No service - down 520 PAX
Liverpool – 6099 - down 256 PAX -4
Manchester - 1296 down 153 PAX -11

Hope they are all right, please correct if not. Anything to be concerned about above?

[sawtooth]

Lack of ILS on 09 leading to a few diversions in recent weeks, FAO today. Down to unusually long spell of easterly winds, above tailwind minima for ILS approach on 27 which rarely have any problem.

In fairness ORK, SNN, CFN, KIR and DUB all had weather diversions in last week, but not great advertising if the weather trend continues.

Not that there will be any infrastructure investment in near future, department still discussing terms of reference for airport study with the original deadline just a month off...

[EI-A330-300]

In fairness ORK, SNN, CFN, KIR and DUB all had weather diversions in last week, but not great advertising if the weather trend continues.

Don't tell me the people from the North West would turn their backs on NOC because of a few diversions.

Not that there will be any infrastructure investment in near future, department still discussing terms of reference for airport study with the original deadline just a month off...

I would not expect any infrastructure investment after the study is done.

[ryan2000]

Don't count on anything coming from that report.

[takingoff]

In fairness if you look at the arrival boards at Dublin airport there are all sorts of delays due to the weather. The diversions at Knock are not great but happens from time to time. Look at this live feed and see the havoc the snow has caused BBC - Travel News - Air (UK airports) : Current Disruptions (http://www.bbc.co.uk/travelnews/air)

As it is live maybe by the time you check the link everything will be back to normal but flights are suspended at East Midlands. Delays Lutin, heathrow and Birmingham all due to adverse weather conditions.

Worse still you could have diversions for something like this although rarely happens in the West unless a field is at stake! Armed shopping centre robbery causes flight diversions at Dublin airport | Irish Examiner (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/armed-shopping-centre-robbery-causes-flight-diversions-at-dublin-airport-587970.html)

[iwak]

Ei lgw service on sale for winter 2013/14 daily a 320 and flybe have loaded man and edi at same freq as last.

Family member recently flew noc to lanzarote with ryanair and said flight was full over and back.hopefully summer season will be successful at iwak.

[sawtooth]

Strange they would go back to 320 after 319 Summer change, where are 319s based for winter? Also see they have moved to a 16:50 departure.

Sundays MAN service operated with E175, nice to see Embraer at NOC for a change.

[EI-A330-300]

A320 is defalt aircraft setting.so expect a change.

[iwak]

Just noticed lgw changed back to 3pm departure ex noc for summer timetable .better timing than 12.45 .it takes effect from some stage in may.

[Locker10a]

Oh Didnt know EI were using the A319 to NOC! Is it scheduled all summer?
Ah yes it will be nice to see Flybe Emb at NOC!

[Shamrock350]

The A319 starts from May onwards, the next two A319s are delivered to EI some time that month.

[sawtooth]

Few of items in regional media this week, good to see regional business and authorities getting behind the airport:

20,000 passengers are expected to pass through Ireland West Airport Knock in Co Mayo over the bank holiday weekend. Passenger numbers are up 10pc from the same period last year, with UK and sun-holiday destinations proving popular.

Airports packed as thousands flee for a welcome dose of sun - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/airports-packed-as-thousands-flee-for-a-welcome-dose-of-sun-29163767.html)

A SENIOR delegation representing the EU directorate general for competition has met with the board of Ireland West Airport Knock to hear their concerns regarding the government’s €300 million bailout of their rival, Shannon Airport.

Connaught Telegraph - EU competition authority meets with Knock airport Board (http://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/latest-news/3615-eu-competition-authority-meets-with-knock-airport-board--possibility-of-industrial-activity-at-mayo-base-in-the-years-ahead)

Galway County Council support Ireland West Airport Knock in its position as a strategic airport in the West of Ireland and calling on the Government to provide the full amount of funding being sought for the airport’s development. The Council passed both motions unanimously.

Passengers travelling via Ireland West Airport Knock spent 200,000 bed nights and a total of €25 million in Galway last year, Galway County Council heard this week.

Airport management and trustees informed councillors at Monday’s council meeting that 30 per cent of all inbound visitors to the airport stayed in Galway City or County. Joe Gilmore, Managing Director of the Mayo transport hub, also revealed that 23 per cent of all its outgoing passengers in 2012 came from the Galway region.
Galway Independent | Council back Knock funding bid (http://galwayindependent.com/20130327/news/council-back-knock-funding-bid-S912.html)

Almost 30 businesses from around the region have met with the airport in a show of solidarity and recognition of its vital role for business and the region. The support from business people follows recent motions of support passed by county councils throughout the region in Roscommon, Donegal, Sligo, Leitrim and Mayo endorsing the airport’s future plans and its importance to the West and North West.

Regional development organisations Council for the West and the Western Development Commission have also put on public record their support for the airport, highlighting the critical importance of the airport from a regional development perspective and the substantial contribution the airport makes to the economy of the Western region, whilst welcoming news of the strategic study being undertaken by Government to support the airport’s development plans.

Commenting on recent developments, Liam Scollan, Chairman of Ireland West Airport Knock, said, “We have been overwhelmed by the positive support and backing we have received from a multitude of organisations from across the region who recognise the development potential at Ireland West Airport Knock and the importance and vital role this airport plays for the Western region.
Galway Independent | 'Strong backing' for Ireland West Airport Knock (http://galwayindependent.com/20130320/business/strong-backing-for-ireland-west-airport-knock-S168.html)

[sawtooth]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/webstuff1/flightradar24_noc_zps5fc708a4.png

[Knock63]

Air Namibia, ready for the new 'Chop Shop' now based at IWAK.

[takingoff]

Sawtooth where was the following line published...?

Passenger numbers are up 10pc from the same period last year, with UK and sun-holiday destinations proving popular.

I know they are due 20,000 passengers over the easter weekend but didn't see anything about the 10% increase over the same time as last year.

[sawtooth]

Did you click the link, it's the last line of the article.

[Sky Conductor]

20,000 passengers over the weekend????? Really??

20,000 divided by the four days of Fri, Sat Sun & Mon = 5,000 per day divided by inbound and outbound legs = 2,500 each way. I know most flight are B738 so say 80-90% load factor for the weekend thats in it = about 160 pax per flight. 2,500 divided by 160 = 15 approx.

Was there really an average of 30 flights (in + out) B737 size flights using knock each day over the weekend. I doubt it. In fact id think there was only half that on Sat and bearing in mind some of those flights are done with AT72/43 and DH8D it makes it seem even more remarkable. Id say 12 to 15k pax might be more realistic.

Open to correction of course by those of greater knowledge in this area.

[EI-A330-300]

Airports who publish these stats are based on the.number of seats so in reality 20000 pax wont happen unless there is a 100% LF.

[Sky Conductor]

Ok. Even basing it on every flight being full to the brim, 189 pax per flight both in and out brings the number of flights down to 26 per day. This again not taking into account that 6/8 sectors a day are on much smaller aircraft. I say at the most they might have 10 in, 10 out on the busiest day with less on other days. I would be interested to know where they got the 20,000 figure from?

[EI-A330-300]

May of included Thursday, I do question it myself as you say the flights don't add up, I expect that it would take around a week to get to that number.

[Sky Conductor]

Thursday was never part of any weekend..but maybe they do things different over there!

I'm sure there is logical reason and the figures are accurate..they would'nt have said it otherwise!!!! There was probably a few dozen charter flights that i have'nt heard about. I was sure some of our regular knock champions would set the record straight. Instead its all gone very quite. Sorry folks, it looks like i just killed the thread!!

[takingoff]

On a different topic the Malaga flight started yesterday. Couple of good touches on Facebook by Knock Airport about the route.“Ryanair will offer passengers in the West and North West a choice of 6 Spanish destinations this summer as well as Faro making it Ryanair’s biggest ever summer sun schedule from the West of Ireland".

[Sky Conductor]

Ah yes...on with the propaganda. Ignore the naysayers!

[takingoff]

Haha!! I wouldn't exactly call it propaganda! The flight did launch in the week and would be deemed newsworthy.

[Sky Conductor]

Well by not responding to someone questioning your "great news" statement but instead continuing on with more "great news" statements then its not far off the kind of reporting that wouldnt be out of place in North Korea..only difference, in NK id probably be in a gulag by now!!

Dont get me wrong i have no issue with knock airport in general, i think its a great success and wish it well in the future. I do however take issue with airports/airlines who throw out these "bulls@#t" marketing lines which appear to have no foundation.

[ryan2000]

Media Statements from airports about busy Easter's and busy Christmas' and Busy Bank Holidays' are nothing new. Media organisations love this sort of thing although you'd wonder what's so newsworthy about it.

[Sky Conductor]

I have no problem with such statements..after all they are only trying to promote themselves. I do have problem with them when they appear to be a blatant lie. Since no one has set me straight on the matter then i believe this is another instance of the above. Wonder would advertising standards have any interest..then again i suppose it would have to be an actual advert as opposed to just a press release.

[Knock63]

I know someone that works on the ramp at IWAK and he said all the flights were packed to near capacity, in and out on Good Fri, Sat, Sun and Bank Holiday Mon, not sure how many pax that makes, more important things to be doing than working that lot out, but I'm sure someone has nothing better to do, all yours sky conductor!!!

[Sky Conductor]

Well come on lets be honest, you have already worked it out in a desperate attempt to put me back in my box. But you realise the figures just dont add up and that maybe..just maybe..your great leaders have lied to you! But you dont want to admit it so act all flipant. Anyway I refer you to my posts dated 2nd April on this thread for figures.

[Mayfly1]

I would guess the airport is too busy focused on developing new routes etc rather than being concerned with what's posted on this stream

[Sky Conductor]

I guess they're also too busy to check the accuracy of their press releases!

Your right they dont have to worry about this thread..they have their little lapdogs to do that for them!

Anyway, can any one of you justify the "20,000" figure or is just easier to attack the poster rather than the post. Im genuinly curious. Maybe ive missed something.

[Roll to the end]

Or they might be too busy with the new monument of Fr Horan that's gonna cost €30K+. I can only imagine that the money could be used a bit more wisely up there.

[Jamie2k9]

a choice of 6 Spanish destinations this summer as well as Faro making it Ryanair’s biggest ever summer sun schedule from the West of Irelan

What kind of research do the PR staff do as this is pure and simply lies.

Now the passenger numbers, AFAIK they are rounded off however I also suspect that this was another lie form the PR staff in NOC as there is not a chance of 20,000 seats over Easter weekend of 4 days.

4 STN - 1512
4 LTN - 1512
4 LPL - 1512
2 BRS - 752
1 FAO - 378
1 BGY - 378
4 EMA - 1512
4 LGW - 1392
3 MAN - 468
1 EDI - 156
2 ALC - 756
4 BHX - 576
Total - 10945

Now I have BHX as a 72 as it was planned to swtich back over the last week, havn't checked if it did or not. I may of even included one EMA which didn't operate. 20,000 figure dosn't add up at all so sombody can't calculate. The tweet from the airport was:

Close to 20,000 expected through the airport this weekend, one of busiest weekends of 2013 also sees start of our Milan service on Sunday!

Just who are they trying to fool?

[Knock63]

Ya can't beat a good bit of spin. Good press or bad press keeps them in the news, keep up the good work boys!!

[Mayfly1]

Was talking to someone who works at the airport and they said that there was a visit from a delegation from Etihad last week, might be something to do with their tie up with Flybe?

[840]

It's about the only thing that makes sense. I can't imagine that they'll be flying to Knock when they have so many other holes in their network. It's presumably a link-up with the Manchester flight as they're long gone from Gatwick and don't fly to Birmingham or Edinburgh, which are the other destinations where you can interline out of Knock.

It's a bit unusual to send a delegation just for a potential codeshare though. You could half ask yourself if it's associated with their GAA sponsorship, but Mayo isn't known as a hotbed of hurling...

[takingoff]

Some people have little else to be doing then giving out about a PR stat on twitter. Besides, the amount of debate this has caused means its gone down a treat! Im sure the marketing team in Knock which is probably only one full time member of staff with another lad/girl on a FAS work placement programme (WPP) on the social media side of things so I wouldnt exactly be too hard on them. In this one tweet no public money was spent or wasted. I'm sure if you look at twitter accounts at Dublin, Shannon or Cork they get stuff wrong, these things happen and of course like in any business you will round up figures rather then down. Remember the photo Luton Airport posted of a Russian plane crash on a social media site a few weeks back with an very ill remark, a lot worse has been done but hey lets knock Knock anyway..

I see something on the Dublin thread about a new codeshare with Etihad. Cant see Etihad wanting to travel down to Knock for no reason regardless what the actual outcome will be.
(Taken from the Dublin thread)
Dubai: Etihad Airways said on Monday it has received regulatory approval for its codeshare deal with Irish carrier Aer Lingus to offer codeshare flights via Irish capital, Dublin, to the US.

[fivejuliet]

They advertise themselves as an International airport. The least they can do is get their figures right. There is NO excuse for it, WPP scheme or not!

[takingoff]

Fivejuliet I see you have said many negative things about Knock through your post history particularly in the last while.

Let's go through one or two of your comments from last year....

"it's going to be quite quieter at Knock next summer"

"Next summer will probably see mostly just ACE, ALC, probably FAO and probably GRO along with the UK flights. LTN doesn't look too good"

However... Alicante, Faro, Gran Canaria, Lanzarote, Tenerife and the new Malaga flight and sales have been good for that so far from what I believe.

While GRO and BGY are back for 2013.

LTN as been ever present, year round. Double daily on Stansted now on a Friday & Sunday too.

You will say give it a rest and fair enough I realise i am too much pro Knock however can I ask you and others to stop trying to be overly critical and get behind a regional airport bringing much needed employment to an area in badly need of it, while standing on its own two feet and offering people in the West, North West commute to the UK every week for employment which unfortunately is not available in Ireland.

[Knock63]

Takingoff, I applaud you sir, :D. There's a lot of sad, sour people out there that are just a little envious of IWAK and what they have achieved so far. So once again :D :D :D

[Sky Conductor]

Come on guys. You're going to have to take the good with the bad. You climb over each othet to get "great news" posts up on this thread but cant take it when people point out glaring errors and i believe in this case it was'nt a slip of the finger on a calculator but done intentionallly in an "ah sure no one will check thoses figures anyway" kinda way. By all means round up figures but dont bloody double them!!

As ive said already im a fan of knock airport and admire what they have acheived but it annoys me that they have to stoop to that level. But i think the point has been well and truley made now so we'll leave it at that (even if the rose tinted wearing ones refuse to see it!) Be interesting to see if their projections for the next holiday period will be as "ambitious"!

[EI-A330-300]

That tweet gives give airport bad credibality, one might question the total passenger figiure for last year. You never know they might of added 10,000 to that to....:eek:

[Sky Conductor]

Haha, best not go there i think. A real can of worms might be opened!!

[Knock63]

Y-A-W-N !!!!

[EI-A330-300]

Y-A-W-N !!!!

Yes would expect these type of responces as you are unable to defend the airports lies in this case. As you are close to people who work there ask them why they have started making up passenger numbers.

[Mayfly1]

Ireland West Airport

@Irelandwest follows you

Official twitter account for Irelands fastest growing airport, now serving over 25 International destinations.

The West of Ireland · http://www.irelandwestairport.com (http://www.irelandwestairport.com/)



1,424 Tweets (https://twitter.com/Irelandwest)
908 Following (https://twitter.com/Irelandwest/following)
4,120 Followers (https://twitter.com/Irelandwest/followers)
https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3444796471/1f21923cd4e35883f58823e4c34146cf_normal.jpeg Ireland West Airport ‏@Irelandwest (https://twitter.com/Irelandwest)48m (https://twitter.com/Irelandwest/status/321611561833730049)




The airport is delighted to have won the award in the 'Social Enterprise Category' at 2days @ulsterbank_baa (https://twitter.com/ulsterbank_baa) awards pic.twitter.com/NcUShn7Fvq (http://t.co/NcUShn7Fvq)


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BHaYAvNCEAICbXH.jpg (https://twitter.com/Irelandwest/status/321611561833730049/photo/1/large)

[Knock63]

Lies ?? Strong word that !! I believe it said "expect 20,000" I "expected" United to win the FA Cup, not a "lie" but they won't. Some people need to find something PROPER to worry and bitch about in their lives other than a bit of promotional bumph, some people. :ugh:

[EI-A330-300]

Lies ?? Strong word that !! I believe it said "expect 20,000" I "expected" United to win the FA Cup, not a "lie" but they won't. Some people need to find something PROPER to worry and bitch about in their lives other than a bit of promotional bumph, some people. :ugh:

the tweet was posted and said close to 20,000 passengers expected, now that tweet would be fine if there was over 15,000 seats but there was less so why use 20,000...you ask some people who work there?

[Mayfly1]

I don't know what all the fuss is about regarding the pax numbers over Easter weekend at airports.
Regular observers of these type of media releases from airports , indeed bus and train operators use stats to make key points such as positive traffic numbers.
In regard to Easter and the interpretation of weekend etc I'd guess that weekend covers a broad definition and I know plenty who started their Easter weekends the Tuesday or Wednesday of Easter week and travelled back to the UK the Monday or Tuesday after! It would be interesting to see how other companies calculate their numbers also

[ryan2000]

Other Irish airports also release statements of this sort every Easter and Christmas and also tend to take a very broad definition of when the festival starts and ends. The media generally quote the statements verbatim in their efforts to hype up the holiday atmosphere.

In general it must be difficult for public relations officers in airports other than Dublin at the moment given that there is so little good news to report. I wish Knock well but between Facebook, Pprune, Twitter and the traditional media I must have read about the new service to Malaga about 15 times since it was first announced.

[EI-A330-300]

It's the principal of it, I could account for the DAA's figures for DUB and take another transport operator ie - Irish Rail I could account for their 150,000 estimate over the easter weekend. Anyway we will never get to the botton of it on here so we may as well draw a line under it and move on.

[Mayfly1]

Good point on the Malaga release Im sick of reading about it on social media releases but I guess if your the airport then it's probably better to be talked about than not at all! And of course social media is a very cost effective mode for communication as this website is clear evidence

[Knock63]

What about if we think "Easter Break" instead of "Easter Weekend" then everyone can carry on and not get out of their prams over nothing.

[Mayfly1]

But then does that mean they can include the whole Easter months figures in the definition if they want to? Maybe Easter week would be better in the Christian sence given its Knock we are talking about here ?

[sawtooth]

Look it seems we all agree it's normal enough for airports to round up capacity figures for publicity now and then. Someone at NOC clearly lost the run of themselves in a t.weet and threw in 2 weeks over Easter, that or there were 10000 refugees hidden on that flight from Namibia...

Can we move on before this thread turns into boards.ie?

[CONAIR11]

Its not the first time figures have been 'rounded up' on this thread including Shannons debt which was trebbled here recently in the interest of the Knock propaganda machine.

[takingoff]

^^^^^ Step away from your keyboard and let it go....

[Knock63]

AND don't forget the amount of money that Knock was supposed to have been granted from the Gov. all exagerated, it happens, get over it.

[CONAIR11]

You shoud know better than trusting the Government

[Knock63]

Gatwick cancelled 2day cos of hydraulic leak from landing gear I believe.

[buddy1]

this is true that a monument is been erected in memory of Monsignor James Horan the total cost is actualy 70k and all funds have been raised locally through fundraising and donations and not the airport wasting money as suggested its simply the people recognising Monsignor James Horan for all he has contributed to the region.

[CARNMANORLAD]

This evenings STN-NOC diverted to SNN due high winds. Flight will operate from SNN with a 4.5 hour delay.

[ryan2000]

Knock Airport wouldn't exist if it weren't for Monsignor Horan.

[Kinocker]

STN flight was unlucky, circled the airport for 10 or 15 minutes and then went to SNN, perhaps hadn't the fuel to hang around any longer. Flybe's MAN flight was circling at the same time but waited around and got in about 15 minutes later when the winds had dropped a little. I was waiting to get on the EDI flight which (thankfully) was an hour late due to a technical issue in Scotland and got straight in. Pilot admitted that we were close to the wind limits for a dash 8 but we got away OK. Plane was rocking on the Tarmac though. Surprised by the number of passengers on the EDI flight connecting elsewhere, the delay made them quite visible.

STN flight looked very busy, so you're talking about three or four bus loads up and down to Shannon. They'll only be departing about now.

103kmph gust recorded at Knock earlier according to the airport's twitter.

[takingoff]

Wind gusts of 103km clocked in Knock. It was the only one affected.

I don't want really want to go down this road but if the people in the West & North West want to fundraise for a statue to the man who effectively build the airport so be it, this is nothing new and is a fitting contribution to the man. From the sounds of things it's like it's offending people, come on lads!

There was even a play not so long ago about the man and his struggles, all proceeds went in aid of Mayo Roscommon Hospice Foundation. I suppose people will give out about raising money for a hospice too!

http://wingandprayermusical.com/

[Knock63]

:ok: Welcome and thanks Buddy 1 for explaining to the uneducated about the money being locally raised for the monument. :ok:

[iwak]

Hi Kinocker

How were the loads to and from edi.It's good to hear that passenger were using the route for connections.

It's the one route I would be afraid knock could lose.passenger numbers don't set the world on fire but the airport have said flybe are happy with the way their 2 routes are performing.I guess the turboprop is much more economical than a jet.

I think the airport should do a slot on local radio informing passengers of low fares and deals on hotels for weekend breaks to the uk from knock.This would definitely help the likes of flybe routes and ei routes as people will always check fr first as it's the dominant carrier.

Just a thought!

[Kinocker]

EDI loads were in the mid 40s which is fairly consistent with what I have experienced on the route in the last couple of years. The early weekend flight has switched from Friday back to early on Thursday for this summer which may have a negative impact on numbers. Also the commencement of flybe's GLA-SNN route might have an effect as a certain amount of the NOC route's passengers would be going to/from the west of Scotland.

However, the loads I saw on this trip were encouraging so hopefully it can continue to be sustained. I use it quite regularly and would certainly miss it if it was to be pulled at any stage.

[Knock63]

I see Aer Lingus have started with the 319's now for LGW.

[cuthere]

Folks,

With reference to the EDI flight, there appears to be something weird going on.

CAA Stats say this:

Edinburgh- IRELAND WEST(KNOCK) 91

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data_prov/201303/March_2013_Provisional_International_Routes.pdf

So, something's gone wrong somewhere. Any ideas?

[iwak]

Hi

The route stopped after Xmas and recommenced on march 31st so 91 carried on the 31st. Roughly 45 each way in line with what kinocker said .

[cuthere]

Ah, that makes sense.

Cheers IWAK.

[EI-A330-300]

Second daily LTN flight added on saturdays in June.

[Kinocker]

Seems a random day for an extra flight - did Ryanair have a four hour afternoon slot free at LTN that they didn't know what else to do with or something?

Departures at 12:45pm and 4:50pm to Luton, EI to Gatwick departs at 12:45pm, FR Stansted flight goes at 1:40pm - I can't imagine there's that much demand for flights from Knock to London on a Saturday afternoon...

On a separate note, I don't think the passenger figures for the first quarter of 2013 have been posted, so here they are:

January 32,089 (+221/0.7%)
February 34,886 (-2800/7.4%)
March 43,644 (-2828/6.1%)

Overall 110,619 (-5407/4.7%)

The expected passenger number drops already clear to see unfortunately, this is likely to be a trend right through the year at Knock after last year's record breaking numbers. Somewhere around the 650k mark still probably the target for 2013 - that would see the damage limited to a 5% drop overall.

[takingoff]

Im using the Luton flight this Saturday into Knock and also surprised about an additional flight on a Saturday. A Friday or Sunday fair enough but it must have been a case that they were doing nothing else with the plane!

Maybe this flight is more geared up for a 'gathering' festival Saturday night goer, get into Sligo/Galway/Westport for 5/6 have a night of it and head back to good auld Landon Town the next day.

Well that's my best attempt - already the normal Gatwick, Luton & Stansted flights on a Saturday although this extra flight is a welcome addition.

[airnoc]

Hi All
Any word on the Turkish flights comming for winter 2013? :ok:http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif

[nrm2]

Just for info folks the EI LGW flight will be operated by BHD based a/c and crew from next week as a W pattern BHD LGW NOC LGW BHD!

[takingoff]

Kinocker...

I stand corrected on my previous comment about the additional Luton service. As I previously said I had to go on that flight yesterday and it was JAMMED packed, pax struggling to find a seat busy. It could well be that advanced bookings for June are high and it was worth MOLs while to run another flight. I think there's a few festivals on around then so they could be helping matters too maybe. Also spend per passenger on confectionery items was very high on this particular flight which I was somewhat surprised about. Maybe I'm more used to flying early morning/late night services when demand for these items are generally very low, but I was take aback on how many people actually purchased items.

I flew on the 16:40 Stansted flight back just now and asked cabin crew about numbers and was informed 184 seats out of 189 were sold.

On another side note my lift situation didn't work out well so unfortunately I had to hire a car this time. The lad from Budget said 45 cars were rented out from their office, more from Hertz and the same number from Avis & Europcar for the weekend. Again I was surprised that on a given weekend over 200 cars were rented from the airport, admittedly your man did say they were busier than normal with a lot of Communions & Confirmations taking place over the weekend in the West.

[EI-A330-300]

Hi All
Any word on the Turkish flights comming for winter 2013? http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif

Airport said they would not be back, not sure where I read it but it was around the time PMI was added.

Seems a random day for an extra flight - did Ryanair have a four hour afternoon slot free at LTN that they didn't know what else to do with or something?


Its just a slot filler if there was more free time you can be sure it would be heading to southern Europe in June.

[airnoc]

Thanks EI-A330-300


See that LGW flight from tomorrow is W from BHD LGW NOC LGW BHD.



Is this the finish of LGW base for EI?

[Cian]

There's still 319 flights to Dublin operated from the LGW base.

[Hangar6]

Doing fine these days good number ad hoc charters
Updates on The Lingus Source | (http://www.thelingussource.com), cross ref this with virginsource
But looking at march April,seems base was busy ,

EI are short a plane still , this is causing cancelations and subs
On a regular basis, still better not to be over capacity
In these trying times.

[takingoff]

On the Knock's live flight information Cityjey have a Pau/Pyrnees flight tomorrow. I take its a charter?

[Knock63]

Lourdes flight.

[takingoff]

Please excuse me, dawned on me after I posted the message and thought I had already deleted it.

[Knock63]

Dare I mention the possibility that,

Ireland West Airport‏@Irelandwest
Close to 10,000 passengers expected to travel through the airport this bank holiday weekend, with 80 flights to 15 different destinations.

[takingoff]

You beat me to it, mind you the Duesseldorf flight is starting back up again this weekend!! A total of 20 flights in and out tomorrow.

I'm sure the Knock PR team will be in for a battering about misquoting figures and generating free publicity, which airlines of course never do...:eek:

Anyway I'll sit back now and get the popcorn out!

[EI-A330-300]

Well at least they have now produced a correct figure, clearly staff read this fourm.

[Knock63]

That's good, does that mean we can put all the 'High Horses' away :)

[Cloud1]

I dont know how many flights go in and out of NOC, but I do know the bank holiday weekend consists of Saturday, Sunday and Monday - with 3 days worth of operations both inbound and outbound flights will that not nearly reach 80 flights?

[EI-A330-300]

Bank hoilday weekend is counted as Fri-Mon which means 80 flights is correct.

[Mayfly1]

I definatley think there should be an independent company down there also counting the 10,000 passengers over the weekend and making sure that the flights actually land!

[Knock63]

:ok: I like the way you roll :ok:

[EI-A330-300]

Just came accross anna aero passegner stats and they show a large decline at NOC, Jan +0.7%, Feb -7.4% and Mar -6.1%. Total passenger drop is just short of 5,500.

With the earlier Easter and FR resuming sun routes slightly earlier what has lead to such a decline in March? April likely to see a fall with Easter in March.

[takingoff]

In short no, it's highly unlikely that 2012 figures will be matched.

Affected by:
Reduced capacity on Birmingham & Manchester flights,ATR and a dash 8 only replace about half the seats lost from the BMI Boeing 737 so a cut in seats by 50%.
Routes lost Leeds, Paris & Frankfurt
The recession, people simply have lees disposable income and it's hitting people's pockets harder this year.

Will be helped by:
Double daily on Stansted Friday & Sunday flight
Additional Saturday Luton flight for June
Additional Malaga flights which goes twice weekly June, July & August*

I think April stats will be up. Easter Monday was the 1st of April when commuters/holiday makers were going back to the UK and around this time of year weekend flights from the UK are generally busy for religious occasions confirmations/communions.

If Knock could hit 650,000 this year that would be good, obviously a dip but still a respectable number. You normally tell when figures aren't great on Knocks twitter account, there very quick to inform their followers on increase but there hasnt been for 13 yet, January aside.

April's figures will be very interesting.

[EI-A330-300]

http://www.johnomahony.ie/?p=2208

[Kinocker]

The posters who didn't like that tw itter message a few weeks back probably won't be too happy about about Michael Murphy's slightly stretched account of IWAK's passenger numbers in their new TV advert either. :)

E6fUk6CuY5k

[CONAIR11]

Good old Michael with his 2 Senior All Ireland Medals.

[takingoff]

Haha! Good little piece...

However a poor hand pass by Dessie Dolan and those white boots they'd be flity in a matter of seconds playing in Mayo.. Ah Dessie Dessie Dessie..

The english here won't have a clue of any of these lads!

[Knock63]

Any idea why the EI Bhx diverted to Shannon today ?

[confused atco]

Crosswinds

[Knock63]

Many thanx!

[Knock63]

Busy weekend at Noc, nice to see 757's up there.

[airnoc]

Hi All
Is this the busieut weekend for the airport so far
What time did the lourdes flight get in last night at?
Any word on the April figures yet

[Knock63]

I think Lourdes landed about 01.45, heard there was 1,650 using the airport on Saturday, not sure for Sun/Mon.

[takingoff]

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport_data_prov/201304/April_2013_Provisional_International_Routes.pdf

Here are the UK figures for April.

Most sizeable changes the Luton flight is up on last year.

While the Gatwick flight is down but a lot of that was due to disruption with Aer Lingus flights in April. Aer Lingus cancels Knock-Gatwick flight today (http://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/14256-aer-lingus-cancels-knock-gatwick-flight-today.html) I know that link states just one day but more days were effected by these cancellations.

Not too sure on the other routes Spain/Milan but the arrivals/departures board looked extremely busy at the weekend alright. That said the airport realise that this year was going to be their toughest in quite a while so any figure over 650,000 in total would be positive.

[Knock63]

Whispers of US flights ???

[iwak]

Please tell, are we talking a us carrier??

[mart901]

any word on BHX for winter??:confused:

[EI-BUD]

A US service, with the small limited number of US carriers and fewer with the capability of transatlantic flying, hard to see who it could be. This would feel more like territory of a start up or niche carrier.

But most likely but still unlikely is air contractors in the guise of EI b757, otherwise I wouldn't expect any developments in this area.

Failing that jet2 enroute LBA us

[Mayfly1]

From what I heard the whisper is regarding possible flights from the US around the G8 summit only, scheduled or chartered is still a long way off unfortunately at this stage. Although a charter schedule remains an option

[fivejuliet]

Apparently there will be a charter from USA for the G8 indeed

[sawtooth]

Nice pic today, lots headign off on holliers from sunny Mayo.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BMOXEQ3CEAAG4TU.jpg:medium

Chairman moving on, he oversaw 10 years of growth.

Knock chairman Scollan resigns - Independent.ie (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/knock-chairman-scollan-resigns-29329150.html)

Do I see a works compound to the left or is that used by handling?
Any update on what the recent capital increase is to be used for?

[takingoff]

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/knock-chairman-scollan-resigns-29329150.html (http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/knock-chairman-scollan-resigns-29329150.html)

I was going to post that link too. What is people’s opinion on Liam's term at Knock?

I suppose no one can argue with how under his leadership it’s grown in size, trebled in pax since he started in 2002. Will be difficult for the new man coming in to better that!

Seemed like a decent skin too although I did know him personally.

[sawtooth]

767 media charter for FOX / CNN mentioned on another forum.

[Kinocker]

I'm sure they'll enjoy the delights of the road from Sligo to Enniskillen!

[Knock63]

Not as much as they'll enjoy the road from Bravo to Alpha, more pothole than road from what i've seen.

[sawtooth]

Lol, I've experienced that 'trasfer'. Must have been the thinnest layer of tar ever laid.

[Mayfly1]

Ye both definitely seem to have the inside track on that one, I didnt realise that road is used to transfer passengers from one apron to the other....when did this start?

[m36mike]

NAA 767 due in late next Sunday evening. It will make a change from Ryanair 737's.

[EI-A330-300]

April dropped 12.3% and May dropped 2.1%

First 4 months of the year passengers are down by 14,572, not to bad but it's just a sign of the economic conditions.

[gaelgeoir]

I think many airports' are getting away lightly in using "Economic conditions" as an excuse for falling numbers. A few posts back Liam Scollan was being credited for overseeing Knock's passenger growth since 2002 even though half of his tenure included the drastic economic downturn since 2007/8.

Given the carry-on by, for example, Ryanair in their unsustainable "deals" with airports I think it's safe to say that overall economic conditions play a subordinate role in airport passenger growth compared to the abuse by airlines of their dominant market position.

[CabinCrewe]

especially as lots of airfields reporting month on month percentage gains during the same economic circumstances :confused:

[iwak]

Bhx service still not book able for winter or ryanair Bristol service, anybody know what's happening.??

[ryan2000]

AirportS tend to take credit and issue glowing press releases when traffic is up and blame the recession and every thing else that goes with it when traffic is falling. As far as Knock goes and increasingly Cork, the traffic patterns are likely to follow the whims of Ryanair for the forseeable future. They're the only airline interested in providing serious growth but the downside of that is that they can easily bring about a major decline in traffic if they so wish.

[Jack1985]

increasingly Cork

Not true concerning Aer Lingus plan's for Cork in 2014.

[mart901]

From what I know iwak, EIR haven't cancelled BHX, they are late launching winter schedule. Not confirmed, just what I've been told.

[Kinocker]

I'd be surprised if Birmingham was discontinued. Bristol maybe not so much - possibly only profitable during the summer months for a 738.

Passenger numbers are down because the Hahn and Beauvais flights didn't prove profitable last year and have not been brought back. Because the seats for those flights were sold cheaply they skewed the passenger numbers a bit for 2012 - like a mini version of what happened at Shannon for about five years. I think this year's numbers and the 2011 figures give a truer picture of where the airport is at - about 650,000 pax p.a. still.

[EI-A330-300]

I'd be surprised if Birmingham was discontinued. Bristol maybe not so much - possibly only profitable during the summer months for a 738.

Passenger numbers are down because the Hahn and Beauvais flights didn't prove profitable last year and have not been brought back. Because the seats for those flights were sold cheaply they skewed the passenger numbers a bit for 2012 - like a mini version of what happened at Shannon for about five years. I think this year's numbers and the 2011 figures give a truer picture of where the airport is at - about 650,000 pax p.a. still.

HHN and BVA mostly had empty seats which couldn't being filled with fares of 5 euro.

Malaga was launched which should of got good loads.

Over all the bucket and spare has increased competition this year and people will go for cheap even if it means traveling further afield. Then their is the Irish-UK market which is struggling at the minute.

[takingoff]

Decent figures for the month of May for Knock, spares a little of the doom and gloom on this thread recently:

Luton 9497 +32 (increase 2,294 PAX)
Stansted 10797 +20 (increase 1,812 PAX)
Birmingham 2479 -47 (Aer Arann now serving this route compared to BMIbaby, decrease 2,209 PAX)
Bristol 3014 +2 (increase 63 PAX)
Gatwick 5884 -7 (decrease 476 PAX)
East Midlands 5230 +10 (increase 459 PAX)
Manchester 2317 -9 (decrease 233 PAX)
Edinburgh no figures yet
Leeds -744 (no serving this route anymore)
Liverpool 7574 +21 (increase 1,293 PAX)

In total its 2,259 PAX up on UK routes compared to May 2012. From what I heard the mainland Europe routes are doing ok too.

Also nice photos on their website of the US Media delegation

[airnoc]

Hi All

Ryanair are reportedly considering operating fewer flights from the airport for 2014.

What flight are for the chop or reduce.

MOL said 2011 that he would announce for flights from IWAK to bring number of flights to twenty five in rthe future.

[confused atco]

Ryanair are reportedly considering operating fewer flights from the airport for 2014.

Perhaps some of the newer routes are coming to an end of whatever incentive scheme was agreed.

Ryanair are well known for playing hardball.

They will threaten to move services unless they get a new sweetheart deal.

Standard business practice for them

[EI-BUD]

Am I right in saying that Iberia express came to NOC this evening from Pamplona?

[Scone190]

Yes . There was a charter flight operated NOC today from PNA with Spanish students mostly traveling to Galway for a month and will be returning to Pamplona on the 29th of July afaik.

[iwak]

Bhx still not bookable for winter are regional pulling out???

[takingoff]

Boris, David and the Queen have all been invited over for the London V Mayo match. Good to see the extra flights. IWAK management must be loving London's continued run in the championship.

Ireland West Airport Knock (http://www.irelandwestairport.com/utility/news_details.aspx?id=330)

[ryan2000]

Marvellous Spin, what looks like 4 Connacht Final Specials turns out to be just one extra flight! The other so called specials are the existing flights!

[takingoff]

Fair dues NOC create a bit of free publicity around things like this, Ryanair have been doing it for years.

Is it not two flights? One from STN on the Saturday at 11:55 then from NOC on the Monday at 16:40. Those flights will probably carry the London team with some of their lads out of pocket due to these additional matches from taking days off work.

[airnoc]

Quota

Marvellous Spin, what looks like 4 Connacht Final Specials
All it is are two extra flights for the weekend


Talking to friend of mine and say had booked Palma-Majorca for Aug 2nd and got a cll today and flight cancel due to low passager numbers.

Is this for real as i try to booked a number of flights in aug and most were full out and back.

[EI-A330-300]

Is it not two flights? One from STN on the Saturday at 11:55 then from NOC on the Monday at 16:40. Those flights will probably carry the London team with some of their lads out of pocket due to these additional matches from taking days off work.

The team want to arrive relaxed and refreshed and not have to put for with the FR scrum for seats on board etc :rolleyes: which is why EI Regional will fly them in on a charter.

[ryan2000]

Report in one of today's paper said that the Kerry Palma flight ends on 18th July and that the Knock charters' are under review.

[mart901]

Also still no bhx past October - anyone any info?

[iwak]

Maybe ei mainline might take it up 4 wkly. There was rumour a While back that ei regional would be the next to arrive at bhd so maybe a route would be done to bhx through a bhd based aircraft .

I would say fr would do a daily service and reduce ema to three weekly if it were to happen. It would be a great boost to pax numbers if we had a daily bhx with fr.

Numbers have been fairly good on the route can't undertand as to why they would let an established route go.

[EI-A330-300]

Not a chance of EI mainline, if EIR do drop it then I think NOC will go to Flybe before Ryanair but FR won't keep both EMA and BHX going.

[airnoc]

Hi Folks
Joe Kennedy back again as chairman, now he will sort the bhx winter/spring shedule and the palma-Majorca flights hopefully

[takingoff]

Here's hoping anyway, more of a regular London passenger myself but on the odd occasion I need to get to Birmingham the route has served me well.

Will the new chairman really make that much of a difference?

[takingoff]

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer’s charges (Molde) fly into Knock airport tomorrow in advance of the Rovers game on Wednesday night. Can't say I know any of the players but what are the bets a team photo will be on Knock's twitter page tomorrow!

[takingoff]

Record flights for Knock this weekend (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/crowds-gather-to-welcome-london-gaa-team-at-knock-1.1470497?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

Obviously the London match is the reason why the airport is so busy.
Boris even sent the team a good luck tweet.

What would Knock airport give for a draw to get the boys back over next week again!

[VickersVicount]

CAA stats UK NOC Some good. Some not so good....

LGW 5479 -24
LTN 9884 +44
STN 10224 +14
BHX 2240 -17
BRS 2485 -7
EMA 5040 -5
LPL 6406 -7
MAN 2454 -4

EDI 849 -13

[fivejuliet]

NOC-BHX should be loaded thrice weekly for the winter according to the BHX thread.

[mart901]

SAT snn-bhx has also been re-timed as well as the Tue,Fri and sun that was mentioned on the bhx thread

[fivejuliet]

It's doing a straight turnaround to SNN on Saturdays, the other days mentioned it's not leaving BHX for SNN until after 5pm.

[Sky Conductor]

What is a "good luck PPRuNe"?

[Cyrano]

What is a "good luck PPRuNe"?

The BB software on which PPRuNe runs does some strange and inexplicable text subsititutions, for example changing every occurrence of the word "tweet" into "PPRuNe".

[Sky Conductor]

Oh ok, that's explains it. Thanks

[takingoff]

Anyone know how the routes outside of the UK ones are doing? Here's hoping Knock can hold onto them for next summer too.

[EI-A330-300]

NOC-PMI scrapped from Friday.

The recent good weather will have affected and IT fights and scheduled carriers who's profits will see steep falls and may lead to cuts over the next while.

[ryan2000]

Do people seriously think the Mediterranean style weather we've had is going to last? It's raining heavily in Cork on and off since 0800!

[EI-A330-300]

Ryan it won't last but carriers have being forced to slash prices for August, September and October. Booking have being very slow since the weather heated up. Carriers will issue profit warning very soon and EI will comment on it at their Hal yearly results next week.

last summer Fr and Ezy said their profits had being increased because of last minute booking from people trying escape the bad weather here and the uk and this hasn't happened this year.

EI have a 50% sale in the middle of summer just doesn't happen very often at most it's 20% for this travel period,

[ryan2000]

Shows the danger of becoming over dependent on bucket and spade routes. Looks as if Charters have had their day at all airports and Majorca no longer has the appeal it once had. It was the No1 Choice from the 60' through to the mid 90's but not any longer.

[Knock63]

Palma flight went out with pax on fri, don't think its been scrapped yet???

[EI-A330-300]

Friday was the last departure with passengers, once they arrive back next week, it won't operate anymore.

[takingoff]

Typical high numbers over a bank holiday weekend.Management still hoping for the 670,000 figure by year end. 15,000 pax less than last year, still think that figure is optimistic...Ireland West Airport Knock (http://www.irelandwestairport.com/utility/news_details.aspx?id=331)

[iwak]

So it looks like a very quiet winter ahead with no bhx ,brs and no edi over the winter months. I'm surprised at bhx as it had fairly healthy loads brs was always border line and edi never seem to get over the fourty mark per flight.if I was management I'd be going after a few late night stn services on thurs ,fri,sunday to make up for these losses.

An fr service to bhx would definitely help numbers but I think ema would be lost if they took up bhx.

[mart901]

Has BHX been officially dropped? If thats the case what is the plane going to do for several hours on a Tue, Fri and Sun while it waits to go back to SNN from BHX, the schedule was ammended like that a few weeks ago, EIR may be delaying launching winter schedule for a reason???

[takingoff]

Over 52,000 passengers travelled on flights to and from the UK in July, a 5% increase on the same period in 2013

German visitors to the West of Ireland from Dusseldorf with passenger numbers on Lufthansas weekly service increasing by 44% in July when compared to same period last year

Despite July being one of the warmest months of the year passenger numbers travelling to popular sun destinations increased by a massive 14% with close to 25,000 passengers travelling to destinations such as Malaga, Tenerife, Barcelona, Alicante and Milan despite July being one of the warmest months in recent history.

Ireland West Airport Knock (http://www.irelandwestairport.com/utility/news_details.aspx?id=332)

[Kinocker]

Better than I would have expected alright. Certainly the EDI flights I took in July were well above the average numbers (low 40s) that I'm used to. If they put up a similar total in August they should be well on their way to 650,000 + for the year. I'll get an idea of whether its a similar story in August on the EDI route next week. London's run in the gaelic football championship will have helped a bit as well.

Late night STN in winter would be popular alright but the airport's winter strategy in recent years has been to stick rigidly to daytime hours to cut costs - hopefully they can finance something different this winter as it would undoubtedly boost pax numbers.

[confused atco]

Late night STN in winter would be popular alright but the airport's winter strategy in recent years has been to stick rigidly to daytime hours to cut costs - hopefully they can finance something different this winter as it would undoubtedly boost pax numbers.

To run a late flight would likely cannibalize the passengers from the day.
Its not going to give you 2 full loads of passengers.

This would also require the Airport to bring in staff or extend the day shift.
Either way it would cost money.

The knife edge that airports run on is very narrow.

Local management may desire a late flight but are no fools, if they can get the same passengers to use the airport during its scheduled opening hours its a far better use of resources.

Remember that the revenue generated by late opening especially in winter must be balanced by the cost of providing the service.

[Kinocker]

A decent enough month for the Edinburgh route seems to back up what I saw on board, numbers are up 7% to an average of 50 pax per flight. Despite posting considerably lower numbers flybe's GLA-SNN will operate this winter but EDI-NOC will not. I guess the newer route into SNN deserves a winter to prove itself but I wonder if it will last if it is posting 20% lower passenger numbers than the NOC route (which is marginal enough itself) in high season.

A return to a Friday flight as operated last year instead of Thursday would help the NOC route to grow I think.

[malc77]

Hi- Does anyone know if the Ryanair Bristol to Knock service is definitely cancelled for winter 2013? When this service started, the Aer Lingus Bristol to Shannon flight stopped permanently.
Now there does not appear to be a way to get from Bristol to West Ireland (Knock or Shannon) over winter 2013.
Many thanks,

[malc77]

I can now answer my own question after getting a reply from Ryanair - No there will be no Bristol to Knock flights over the winter period. As there are no Bristol to Shannon flights either, it leaves SW England truly cut off from W Ireland.

[MerchantVenturer]

Not really a surprise that Ryanair has pulled this route for the winter. The loads have never been high. Even in July and August the monthly load factors rarely get beyond the low 70s%.

Knock was one of the original routes when Ryanair opened its Bristol base in 2007 and from memory has operated continuously since then (originally 4 x weekly reduced to 3 x weekly in recent years) except for the winter of 2011-2012 when it was given a rest.

Aer Lingus Regional axed Bristol-Shannon towards the end of summer 2012 (end of September I seem to recall) and hasn't reinstated it since then. Passenger numbers seemed reasonable but the airline presumably believed there were better opportunities elsewhere.

[Jack1985]

I'd expect Shannon-Bristol will be reintroduced for Summer 2014, RE are re-basing a second aircraft at Shannon for 2014 going on there plans as recent as last May.

[malc77]

It must be more than seven years since there has been no way to fly Bristol to either Knock or Shannon over the winter period. A great shame for travellers and businesses alike.

[Kinocker]

Exceptionally high load on the EDI route last week, there were well over 60 on the flight I took with 55 going back the other way. One of the flight attendants was asking if there was anything in particular going on in the area as the EDI-NOC flights had been particularly busy in recent weeks.

I don't think there is any reason for that route to have an increase over any of the other UK ones, so if that is replicated across the board August could turn out to be a record breaking month at Knock.

[VickersVicount]

I would have though the sudden peak in an otherwise dire normal load might have something to do with the Edinburgh festival.... Normal service will resume shortly Im sure...

[airnoc]

Hi all
Is tomorrow the businest day of the year with six flights on lourdes as well as the rest of the day routes.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/wink2.gif

Was in airport recently going on holidays and the P.A was nothing short of the worst i ever heard could not make out one word that was been said.:=http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/embarass.gif

The Bascilica in knock shrine has one of the best so could the airport have a look at this one or try and improve on the one they have http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

[Kinocker]

Doubt its the Edinburgh festival to be honest - that's on every year so wouldn't explain the spike in traffic this summer. More likely to be related to 'the gathering' I think.

[Knock63]

Glad to say the PA system has just been upgraded, not before time!!

[airnoc]

Hi

I see on wiki page that Dusseldorf is finish on 26 oct 2013, is this for good and Cologne/Bonn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cologne_Bonn_Airport) begins March 2014.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Hopefully this wil be twice weekly

Any chance Jet2 might take the BHX routehttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/confused.gif

[mart901]

Why would jet2 do such a thing when they have no aircraft at BHX? BE is a lot more likely really given their strong base there and two existing NOC routes. BE have done a lot better job of BHX-WAT in terms of growth. All that said EIR haven't necessarily dropped the route, nothing has been announced either way.

[airnoc]

[QUOTE]
Why would jet2 do such a thing when they have no aircraft at BHX?

Sorry mart901 meant to say monach might be a good choice and maybe do Leeds as well

[mart901]

Monarch I've thought of before - I can't quite see that one either as its out of their remit, that said they have been diversifying a bit lately into some more city type destinations, also there is a proven low fares market BHX-NOC, bmibaby and in particular mytravellite had much higher PAX numbers than EIR. FR at EMA is the issue really, I think B'ham based Irish would much rather fly from BHX but price dictates otherwise.

[airnoc]

Hi All

WDL411 16:55 VAGAR (FAROE ISLAND/FAEROERNE on 07/09/2013

What is charter for?

Seen that July had a increase in pax numbers how is the overall on pax through the airport year on todate

[virginblue]

I know that WDL brought in the German under-21 squad for tonight's match against the Faroes on Thursday or Wednesday. I guess the flights goes to Vagar to collect them tomorrow. Not sure why it positioned out to NOC in the first place, though.

[mart901]

Having looked closely at flybe's booking engine over the last few days BHX-NOC was available as a route for a few days but no flights showing as bookable. It has now dissappeared altogether. There are numerous connections through EDI which could and have previously been bookable. The same scenario happened with BHX-WAT with the booking engine showing it in the drop down menu, only for it to dissappear then reappear when announced. It looked at one point like EIR would run 3x weekly in winter. I would hazard a guess flybe are to take over the route. It would make a lot of sense. EIR came in on a daily basis and really haven't done any favours for it having had over 90% load factor last summer to not even bookable past October. Flybe have good brand recognition in the BHX market and seem able to hold their own against low fare operators such as EZY.

[j636]

As NOC-EDI is being dropped for winter in October, any connections to BHX are gone. I don't think that BE will open the route this winter, at least 2014 before anything happens.

[mart901]

Yeah but quite a few weeks left of EDI and its bookable in 2014 with connections via EDI to other places but not BHX despite high frequency on EDI-BHX

[j636]

Possibly but a bit late for a winter start.

[mart901]

This is true. EIR ammended BHX-SNN times on 3 days and it looked like they were going to keep going over winter. They may of course still have something up their sleeves.......

[Kinocker]

There might be something in that BHX thing alright. It would be welcome - I'd choose BE over EIR on the same route every day of the week, they are much more reliable and comfortable in my experience.

In other news, August was the second busiest month in the airport's history with 85,000+ travellers using the airport. You can spin this either way of course, while the numbers are very strong in what has been a relatively difficult year for the airport (compared to the last few of steady growth) August 2012 was the busiest ever month so there will have been a year on year drop for August of about four or five percent.

I'd imagine they are still well on target to break 650k passengers this year though which, considering they lost those two Ryanair Euro routes which were artificially increasing the figures somewhat, wouldn't be a bad result.

[iwak]

It's all a bit strange the way ei pulled the route even had they gone 4 wkly for winter it would have made more sense. Anyway here's hoping for an e175 service if be take on the route.

It's a pity that jet 2 don't have a base at bhx a low cost jet service besides fr is what would bring inthe numbers fr would drop ema if they done bhx.

I think ei mainline 4 wkly would work after all my travel done a daily a320 granted back in boom time but really successful .

Anyway it said on their facebook page that they are hopeful of confirming their bhx winter schedule next wk.

[takingoff]

Anymore news on the BHX front?

[iwak]

According to airports social media they expect to have their bhx schedule confirmed early in the coming week.According to flybe thread there is definitely capacity in the bhx base to run a route to noc so fingers crossed.

[airnoc]

[QUOTE]
According to airports social media they expect to have their bhx schedule confirmed early in the coming week.According to flybe thread there is definitely capacity in the bhx base to run a route to noc so fingers crossed[QUOTE]

Hi All

I think it will a waste of time putting a dash Q400 on the route it wants a E175/E195 to make a succees of the BHX/NOC route like it was before with BMIBABY or Mytravellite.

[iwak]

Totally agree but with flybe cost cutting and trying to stem their losses they stated that ejets would be used on business routes and longer med routes.I'm sure a q400 would be cheaper to run to noc than an embraer. But here's hoping would love to see a daily e175.

[OltonPete]

airnoc

Without saying never but I think the chances of a flybe jet on BHX-NOC is very unlikely.

The 175 only holds ten more seats than the Q400 and the schedule is maxed out during the winter for the three based aircraft.

As for the 195, it appears the BHX base is going down to one operational on the Air France code-share Paris. There will be still plenty visiting from EDI & GLA but they are on straight turnarounds.

This means either one of the four new 175's or more than likely if it happens the same Q400 that sits on the ground the Waterford doesn't operate (Tue, Thu, Sat) or a major revamp of the schedule, which is only weeks away making it unlikely.

Monarch - well..........it would be well outside their comfort zone with the likes of Munich, Milan gone (fingers burnt), Bordeaux (with no competition) operating barely half full, it would take some arm-twisting especially when thus far they have ignored easier city targets from BHX such as Prague and Lisbon.

Pete

[simoncorbett]

Perhaps bmi Regional ...they are stopping Lyon soon from BHX so could do NOC instead ?

[fivejuliet]

If it were to be started again it would probably be Flybe though definitely not with a jet. BMI Regional a very unlikely runner.

[mart901]

The shame of it all is MON possibly could make a tidy killing on NOC but persuading them may be another story. I would agree BE is most likely candidate if EIR do bow out....its late for them to launch a schedule now. BM a very, very long shot.....but who knows.

[Jack1985]

With Monarch's cost base? Doubt it, I believe thats why they ignore Domestic routes and the likes of routes to Amsterdam/Paris. The airport's best bet is most definitely Flybe.

[Kinocker]

Agreed Jack - no question, everything points to flybe and a dash 8. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

[mart901]

It would be an increase in capacity. Still no announcement, end of week keeps being mentioned. Love to know what's happened with EIR and why they seem to have chopped and changed plans.