More ATR's
 

Jethro's showing that Loganair are expecting a further 8 ATR's this year - 4x 42-5/600's and 4x 72-600's.

The same list suggests there are 5x Saab 340's still in service, so assuming they are replaced by some of these then the fleet will grow by 3x aircraft.

More Embraers going.

Any word on which ones will be retiring? These would be the first ERJ-145 retirements of Loganair.

Rumours of INV going all ATR.

INV is going all ATR - the Embraer from INV is moving to EDI as a third based a/c.

Suspect the issue is just that Jethros website lists too many ATRs arriving - sure as I can be that there are five to come to replace the last five 340s. There's no change to the 145 fleet size and spending on FMS, ADS-B and a cabin refresh all happening.

Will INV be a ATR 72-600 ONLY base.

Three are to replace Saab 340's which have already departed at the start of the winter season.

When is the last scheduled flight using the Saab ?

Be interesting to see what they do with GLA/EDI to SOU long term. Obviously different times but BE were flying 80 seaters the same frequency instead of the 50 seat ERJs. Not sure whether the AR72 is quick enough to be suitable for those routes and the ERJ is very cramp and means high ticket prices. I suppose a small fleet of ERJ 170/175s would mean another sub-fleet.

Trades unions holding remote communities to ransom:
https://aviationweek.com/air-transpo...ace-suspension

Flybe might have been using 80 seat aircraft but they were rarely full. Use the service to GLA regularily and the LM fights are busy on the E145 so they obviously have the right number of seats available.Yes more expensive but the cheap fares are one of the reasons why FLYBE are no longer here. The AT72 seems to manage to BHD with Emerald ok so cant see why it wouldnt to GLA/EDI.

Not sure where you get your numbers from but BE were mid to high 80s LF on EDISOU in summer and low 80s LF in Winter. GLASOU about 5% below EDI. Strong numbers for a regional carrier and probably why Logan started the routes.

It was Loganair that started the routes in the first place, they were gifted to flybe in the whole merger and sale fiasco involving BA Connect. the ATR is going to be relatively slower but I don't see them buying Q400s so it is what it is once the ERjs go.

Flew on the 145 recently and compared to the BA A320 on which I did the journey south, it was cheaper and far better. If I had to describe anything as cramped and expensive, it would be the A320 - and both were nearly full. Give me the 145 any day!!

Must have been prior to 2003 then as there's no sign of them after that date until recently.

I suppose it all depends how much of a puritanical historian you are ! Glasgow - Southampton was initially flown daily by a BUA 1-11-200 in between Gatwick sorties for many years which continued through into BCal until the early 80s.

There was a BA HS748 service which was a Glasgow-Manchester-Birmingham-Southampton in the late 80s, which was short lived.

After that, Loganair was the first nonstop service since the BCal which I recall started in 1991 or 1992, designed to serve the IBM corporate business. It was initially a 2x daily J31 and went to a 4x daily J31 before Edinburgh was also added and J41s arrived.

After that came the BRAL / BA Connect thing with the 145s and then Flybe started up in competition on the Southampton routes about 1997 with 146s. Flybe then were given BA Connect with the dowry to take it off BA’s hands, competition was eliminated and the Q400s came along.

Flybe went bust, Loganair came back with the 145s, Flybe threatened to come back again but pulled those plans and went bankrupt shortly afterwards.

If I’ve missed anything, please say so but I think that’s a potted history of 50 years of Glasgow-Southampton services!

I don't remember flybe going against BA on GLA-SOU, they were however competing on GLA-BHX with the 146 from 1997. I think flybe inherited GLA-SOU in the BA sale? I thought Loganair lauched the GLA-SOU route in 1991, never knew about BUA! You live and learn.

Thanks for filling in the gaps I didn't have @Flightrider!

I definately remember Flybe competing with BA on the GLA- SOU route as it was sometimes cheaper to go one way with BA and back with Flybe, dont ever remember it being a 146 though. Im sure it was the Dash then later the E195. The Loganair service was taken over by Manx when Airlines of Britain decided they would operate all of Loganairs services outwith Scotland. This then became BACON.

Flybe came onto the route in competition with BA CitiExpress in March 2004, and both airlines operated until October 2006, when BA Connect (as BA CitiExpress had by now become) withdrew.service. Flybe thus did not acquire the route via the BA Connect transfer in spring 2007, it was already flying it.

Loganair offer a great service but EZY will jump on GLA or EDI once SOU runway extension is complete, 3/4 weekly in competition with RYR BOH

I doubt this... They'd almost certainly be more expensive than Ryanair for the leisure market and offer a poor frequency compared to Loganair so with next to no appeal to business travellers.

Rubbish, many pax would rather fly with EZY from SOU with its superior ground connections (road/rail) and catchment. Loganair will always have a niche for business travellers but one daily to EDI would make a killing for the majority being leisure!

Just a couple of points if I may.

BUA started Glasgow to Southampton in 1966 with a Viscount 800, the BAC-1-11-200 started in 1969. Originally a daily service but was reduced to six weekly after Caledonian purchased BUA in 1970. In 1974 BCAL had to reduce their network due to several factors at the time and Glasgow to Southampton ended in September 1974.

The short lived British Airways HS-748 service that operated to Southampton between 1987/88 I believe originated in Edinburgh rather than Glasgow. The routing was Edinburgh-Manchester-Birmingham-Southampton, it could have even originated from Aberdeen. I used the flight a couple of times whilst it existed.
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Loganair inaugurated Edinburgh/Glasgow to Southampton in October 1991.

If easyJet start then Loganair leave. I doubt there's room for both, look at the IOM. There's very few regional routes with both high volume leisure and high frequency connectivity.

In danger of going off-topic but the runway wouldn't appear to be overly restrictive at the moment for a A319 to EDI or GLA. If Easy were going to start why haven't they already?

Probably more to do with lack of apron space (no large aircraft stands) and airfield performance prohibitive in warmer temps, even Loganair struggle with summer temps currently. All of this is being rectified come August so let’s wait and see. Do agree however that an EZY schedule to EDI would go down very well with people on the south coast

So how did the Palma etc flights operate?

A little more expensive than RYR but significantly less expensive than Loganair. The business travel market is now a fraction of what it was so cheaper fares with less frequency is the way to go with 186 full seats x whatever weekly!

Maybe the tour operators were willing to compromise on seat numbers and hold capacity? Doubt this would ever be entertained by a LCC

Geneva EZY flights also squeeze in as have several airbus operators in the past. If Easy wanted to they could do GLA / EDI now.

short flight of 470 miles in winter temps

I don't see the UK summer temperatures really stopping a A319 performance to EDI?

you will be surprised off a strip of tarmac just over 5500ft

GIB have a marginally longer runway and offer Airbus flights as far as EDI, albeit probably seat restricted.

As I said, I don't see the runway length currently realistically being much of a restriction on an airbus 319 hopping to Scotland.

Agreed but SOU is penalised rather heavily by reduced TORA/TODA declarations

I think we're going off topic completely here but I don't see any restriction which would stop easyjet chucking a 319 on flights to EDI at present considering several operators have flown larger aircraft greater distances from the airport in the past.

Maybe the opportunity to operate longer sun routes from the airport might entice them in to also do shorter routes alongside....

easyJet already fly SOU-GVA with the 319/320. If they wanted to fly shorter sectors from SOU to EDI, GLA, BFS, AMS etc then there is no technical reason as to why they couldn’t have done it already. That they haven’t is clear, but the reasons less so.

The comments about winter temperatures are also a bit of a false trail. The bigger impact on performance is a wet runway, which you’re more likely to get in winter.

Just checking: is this the Loganair thread?

It's is a rumour thread that has little to do with Loganair. By people that in the main have no real association with Loganair.