Yes, but it’s the sheer number that are leaving that is causing issues. The training system can’t cope with such a turnover and experience levels on the fleet will be very low as such new pilots come on stream. Most of the big airlines are recruiting and LM is very low on the list of companies to go to unless starting out in the industry with low hours.

I think he was just burned out and needed a break (as was his reasoning in his social media posts).

They dont do other LM routes.

Old boy at LM and covered JH for many a day.

Orange cleaning up on GLA and SOU losing LM pax to BOH on EDI

Care to quantify your statement?

LM will be losing business to easyJet on their GLA service and pax are also using Ryanair BOH flights to EDI as a cheaper alternative, backed up by a quick look at latest CAA stats

Is it backed up by the CAA stats?

It was discussed in the Southampton thread. It's hard to extrapolate the Glasgow stats as to who is winning that battle. A modest increase in pax numbers considering the additional capacity and only anecdotal evidence otherwise with people saying easyJet's look full when boarding and others saying easyJet are averaging about 100 pax.

Similar with Edinburgh - Southampton. November's figures were 15% down year on year but for most of the year the differences are marginal when compared year on year, with the summer months actually being higher. Ryanair's Edinburgh- Bournemouth started in April, didn't it?

So I would say, at the moment there isn't much evidence to prove either way on Glasgow, but Edinburgh seems to be holding up pretty well.

Guess the real test will be when GLA with easyjet goes daily in May

Ive been using the LM flights to GLA fairly often since EZY started and they have been over 3/4 full each time.. They were like that before EZY started too

Because Logan flights go to the places when people want to go there for business and come home again. EZY and RYR don't. And our poster hasn't even mention another LM base that isn't even looked at by the sharks. Seems the poster has a grudge against LM.

There will always be a certain number of people that need a multiple-times daily schedule for business and will be prepared to pay for it. Other people also need to be able to travel on a particular day, or time of day. As long as these people are happy and able to pay a premium for such a service I think there will continue to be a niche market for Loganair on regional routes.

I'm only a passenger and not an airline expert, but to me it feels that LM have exactly the right equipment in the shape of the ERJ 145 to deliver this service. If they possibly deployed a bigger capacity turboprop on the routes to Scotland, I think it could actually backfire on them. Yes, the seat costs would be lower, but not low enough to match EasyJet, but they would be offering an inferior service to those who can pay more, and these people may possibly desert to Heathrow for the comfort of a jet.

I'm sure EZY will eat into LM's market share, but I think they are offering a different product and there will always be some people prepared to pay for it. Waitrose will never outsell Tesco, but there's a market for both! Incidentally, back in the day, BA regional or whatever they were called then, were quite successful at Southampton using ERJ 135s and 145s to a number of business destinations in mainland Europe, from memory I'm pretty sure there were services to Zurich, Milan and Frankfurt amongst others. I wouldn't be surprised if there's still a potential market for business flights from Southampton if the right aircraft can be found and they were well-publicised. Hampshire/West Sussex/South Wiltshire/East Dorset is a very wealthy area and not everyone is looking for cheap and cheerful.

while I note your points there is no way that the market is segmented LM for business and EZY for leisure. Just taking a quick look at next Summer’s EZY GLASOU schedules, while they are all over the place as is standard for EZY regional domestics, on a Tuesday and a Friday they have late afternoon/evening rotations which will obviously be attractive to the business market to the detriment of the LM operation. If the EZY operation was a daily middle of the day round trip I would agree that maybe LM could coexist with them but not when they schedule at peak times.

The EZY flights are at a different time each day. Vary wildly.

BACON were so successful the Irish gentleman dumped them are a few quid soonest he could :ugh:

That’s what I meant by their schedules being all over the place.

Actually I think the Irish gentleman shelled out quite a lot of money to persuade you know who to take them away.

Yes - just reinforcing the point.

...and never picked up since.

Sort true due to carried over debt- including some from other divisions ; that 767 was charged to them above typical market leasing rates .

Those Amazon jets weren’t and never have been appropriate for the European market , and especially after the flexible fares carriers arrived on the scene.

Work adequately flying from boon dock towns many lacking a regular coach services let alone rail connections (Greyhound and Amtrak make the UK services look positively luxurious and reliable by comparison ) into one or other US hub as life line services.

They were rather less suitable from Manchester/ Birmingham and Southampton when competing with the full sized 320/737 services of the EU mainline carriers, and rapidly expanding flexible fare carriers eating their lunch .

Still another life time ago now - we have voting adults today that weren’t even ameba back then.

Through is some circles the sour taste often lingers; then you sit back and see the massive explosion in range of destinations and indeed based fleets today compared to those of BA back in the day.

It's more that the offering to market changed. With no Ryanair or easyJet offerings, BACON may well be around today offering high frequency high fare business type service. But that old world died and so did they.

The EMB145s were ordered by British Regional and Brymon (both flying as BA) idependently pre merger for the likes of Scotland- BRS/CWL/SOU, but as soon as GO opened a BRS base, the market changed. BA ended up competing with itself at one point! I think the penny dropped quite soon after delivery that the business model they were ordered for was changing rapidly.

Yes also a history lesson today.

BA should have ditched them not hung onto them and then try to price match or operate a million times a day to Frankfurt ( the regions didn’t demand that much frequency)

Total disaster through BA competed with itself in the regions for several decades before .

The twin Birmingham Manchester mini hubs with sometimes parallel onward connections to Scotland and Belfast made little sense other than reflecting political realities of the time .

Regionally they may have survived by consolidating over one or the other , and indeed several years beforehand a transport report recommended just such a scenario with some services hived off to the likes of Dan Air and Britannia . Never happened through.

Ah that sale and withdrawal from the regions never does get old on these forums among those of a certain age :=

Because of that nasty word that has damaged UK Aviation since 23 June 2016. Shapps should be introduced to the compressor of a CFM56-7 for the damage he has done to UK aviation.

The EJRs work well on the longer routes and the French Truck Bomber is the only alternative to it.

Although Zurich was never operated from Southampton by any other carrier than BACON your incorrect in regards to Frankfurt and Milan as both destinations were later flown by "or picked up, in your words" by Flybe.

Yes - just reinforcing the point 👉

Apologies, Should have said "No longer operate". I know there's a list on one of the threads of all the routes dropped from SOU and when, should have checked.

If I remember correctly I actually wrote that particular list.

But apologies accepted from you which im sure your agree with is a first.

Didn't Loganair explicitly state that they are done with international routes to the continent for good after they burned quite a bit of money on the routes they tried? Maybe the odd Scandinavian route, but otherwise my take is that they will concentrate on the British Isles in the future (whatever that means in the airline business).

On reflection that’s probably a good decision, they are obviously operating reasonably successfully serving smaller airports and communities where the larger mainstream carriers feel there isn’t sufficient business to deploy their larger resources.

Perhaps one should think of Loganair as being the UK equivalent of Norway’s Widerøe?

I seem to recall something along those lines, with Germany singled out for particular mention. It looks as though Scandinavia works - probably because of a lesser level of both direct and indirect competition and higher fares - but anything to continental Europe is/was off limits.

Back in the day of sizeable European non-stop services from Southampton, you didn't have this large low-fare operation called easyJet up the road at Gatwick. I'm not sure those type of services would work at SOU nowadays - you need high yields and your ability to get those with sufficient volumes to achieve a respectable loadfactor too is probably a stretch. Moot point though, really.

Never did international routes pre pandemic bar Oil and Gas. BMIR did. They went bust.

They did Glasgow - Dusseldorf in 2019 after Eurowings pulled out. Google suggests they also did Edinburgh to Hannover for a while.
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Routes killed by Brexit.

Glasgow-Dusseldorf ex Eurowings and Newcastle-Brussels and a short lived run on EMA-Brussels ex BMIR were all flown. I don't think EDI-Hannover ever got launched but can't remember if that was Brexit or Covid (or both).

Covid

And never considered viable to return. Covid just accelerated the effects of Brexit.

Yeh possibly, and not to get into a political debate, but with Aviation out of the UK booming again post Covid, I think to keep blaming brexit now is a bit wrong.

Whom wants to fly to Brussels? We will see if CAA figures for 2023 are on a par with 2019. The economy decides air travel accurately. I do know the B word cost Logan a lot of money and time to sort out the regulatory mess.

Credit goes to @SeanM1997 on X

But quoted from him below

Quote:
Loganair are trimming many frequencies in Summer 2024 with Aberdeen-Oslo cut completely and reductions to Aberdeen-Manchester, Edinburgh-Exeter, Edinburgh-Southampton, Glasgow-Derry & Glasgow-Southampton among others

watch EZY trim back their competing routes now to eg Bournemouth and Southampton

Going off topic but I believe COVID was an excuse for Brexit complications