My fear is that there are more cowboy venture capitalists (Flybe 2.0) ready to pounce than there are benevolent private owners willing to take it on.

They've certainly got at least four pure freight aircraft and I thought did a lot more charter stuff too - could throw that calculation off quite quickly. If that is what they get though, then yes - it is a good effort.

Presumably if they thought selling to a direct rival was that obvious, they'd have picked up the 'phone before engaging expensive advisors. Logically, they've either already done that or don't see there's any point!

True. Their financials are out next month and they may mention their profit per seat sold which would be more meaningful.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....94811525f4.jpg
Response from the CEO on LinkedIn

Scottish airline Loganair goes on the market https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...iness-63194336

Something like this occurred some weeks ago. The name of the airline wasn’t mentioned to me, but it seems likely it was LM in light of this announcement.

I really do hope Loganair doesn't become another casualty of "hedge funds" or "Private Equity" sharks. It looks from what has been published that the current owners are in no desperate need of a sale so can afford to be choosy and with any luck they will go with the offer that is good for the business after they've sold it, not just for their bank accounts.

Fingers tightly crossed!

The Bond brothers kept it alive during the years, they F#cked BMI over to keep one baby alive. They will have some serious battles to fight... old fleet that majority is owned but will need to be replaced by leased new equipment... tik tok... card house waiting to collapse..

You've said something like that before and it's cobblers now as then!

Fleet isn't majority owned. Last Saab 340s on their way out and ATRs heading in as fast as you can count (15, I think) - which I believe are all leased.

bmi would never have survived Brexit, Covid and fuel where it is today - it was losing money when it collapsed before any of that little lot came along. It fell over because the owners declined to put any more funding into it and stopped throwing good money after bad. Strange definition of "f#cked over" but may be that's just lost in translation.

Did you read any of the articles. The carrier has a majority leased fleet, is debt free and doing pretty well.

Listen, I know it is not a populair statement, but they have pumped the numbers, loans out and Bond brothers kept liquidity.. however now its game on.. I want them to survive.. but the wrong part of the fleet is owned and the expensive part is leased...

Also the fleet is way to big, like back in the days with FlyBe.. economy of scale yes... but regional aviaton can not be profitable at this size when you are not an BA Cityflier or a KLM Cityhopper.. so some of the PSO in combo with ABZ ops is good but rest is shambles and we will see this soon... tik tok.. I am sorry..


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....af5dd4a00a.jpg

The info you have there isn't right to begin with.

Come back when you know what you're talking about, I'd suggest. Patently obvious that you don't - predicting the demise of Loganair on the first posting on this thread two years ago, and two years later, it's still here and in very good health!

Seems like you have a serious axe to grind with Loganair?
BMIr was a failure long before its final demise, many refuse to believe it to this day.
No point blaming Loganair or the Bond brothers, previous owners, successive management failures and a changing market hammered in the nails.
Some of us are just happy to still have jobs in this day and age and hope things stay that way.

What do you replace the Embraer fleet with?

More ATRs I suspect… even if they are slower.

The 50% reduction in passenger tax in 2023 will surely be a big help to LM on its domestic services and help to keep it a viable operation.

Hi Guys, I have nothing against any airline but I just dont have the "pink" glasses certain people have. I do hope all people, pilots etc tec can keep their jobs.. I am just raising my concerns that they are not in that great shape as it may seem.

On the fleet side, I think the data is accurate enough, Saabdriver1 saying I am wrong, happy to be wrong but show your source in that case.

Historic I just think the Bond brothers kept the airline afloat and they saved Logan over BMI and ok, sometimes you need to make those choises.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....60c7c6f5a6.jpg


I think current Logan just grew too big, and I know this a fond strategy, but you need to keep growing to stay ahead of the bills of previous years.. grow more aircraft and routes.. the bills follow.. so grow again... like Flybe did... now there more reason why they went bust... but in the basis, you can not grow forrever so at one point you need to make serious money or you start loosing serious money... and I am no advocate of closing airlines that dont make a profit for lets say one year...

But Logan at 40+ as "Scotlands Airline" is just too big and vunarouble, the Scottish essential services and the ABZ related work will work but the rest is loads of window dressing and just open to be easy killed by for example Easyjet. Logan does not have the equipment and or pockets to compete on routes. The cry wolf over the PSO I think is nice example, from tax payer perspective we dont want to pay for the PSO so if an airlines want to go comercial perfect.. but as the PSO operator dont cry..

I wish Logan well but I think they grew too big and they will have a hard time ahead, going from owned cheap metal to expensive lease, if it was that profitable and bright future the Bond brothers would not sell, they dont need the few extra pounds.

If Easyjet / BA does offer you that job tallaonejuliet I would take it.. tell the wife you will be still home many nights... just not every night.

I am not convinced FlyBe2 have a business strategy or if they do I don't see it, save perhaps eventually capitalising on LHR slots. I wouldn't like to see Loganair mixed up in that.

The vision surely and unique USP has to be around Scotland's Airline. Against a background of a proto independent Scotland seeking to rejoin the EU, that is a pretty strong position. Even if Scotland remains part of the U.K. it is still a USP.

What?

Are they still the owner of the two Dornier 328s that have sat in Dundee for a few years? Seems a bit odd to have the expense of maintaining them rather than scrapping them.

The shortbread onboard is lovely

Major turning point
 

Well, I for one don’t believe that this is any kind of coincidence with respect to timing etc. The break up of the U.K. in my opinion is now inevitable and I believe this will be the start of nest feathering for a new National Independent Scottish Airline. If the Scottish Government get involved here in any way, then that will be all the confirmation one needs. Putting that caveat on it, the lease of A220/319, E190’s to operate LHR/European routes is nowhere near beyond the realms of possibility

I doubt the Scottish Government could ill afford to get involved pouring money into an airline after nationalising the railways

Plus given they supposedly want to rejoin the EU they would need to comply with state aid rules which would be difficult for them.

If easyJet etc don't eat them alive first...

The suggestion reads as though no-one else - KLM, easyJet, Ryanair, Air France and many more - would be flying to Scotland if it became independent. I can't see that will be so. Going up against all of those players would be a death-wish and this is an airline which chooses its battles rather than fighting on every possible front.

Countries in Europe with under 10 million population having a national airline, particularly if state owned, has a rather variable history since 2000. Yes, some like Finnair or Aer Lingus have been around for many years... but plenty of others have struggled to remain independent and financially viable.

In connecting Scotland's outlying regions, Loganair has a nice little niche, and flying thinner routes from Scotland/IOM to the rest of the British Isles should work well. Flying to Germany did not. They have a good CEO right now... but I'm very wary of a potentially state owned airline being pushed into flying to places that make for good political soundbites but are commercially lousy

Aer Lingus, however, is a part of IAG so is probably not the best example as a surviving independent state airline.
If Scotland became independent would Loganair be able to maintain it's Newcastle base?

It would depend on the Constitutional arrangement between the two newly indepentent states and what sort of Air Services agreement that they come to.

I think we've strayed far enough from reality now. :ok:

Loganair made a pre tax profit of £4.98millon on turnonver of £162m.

Jonathan Hinkles wrote on LinkedIn, that Loganair is the UK’s 3rd largest airline measured by flights and they have signed Loganair’s largest ever contract with a new five year agreement with a major logistics company.

Entire Scotland population 5.5 million. Greater London population 9.5 million. Where would you operate?

Depends how competitive you are or want to be

is that really true? Is he conveniently discounting BA, TUI and the EJU/EZS bits of easyJet? Either way it’s not a very credible comment to be making.

CAA stats for July - number of passenger flights. The number of cargo flt make no difference. Not sure why you'd want to include Austrian and Swiss airlines?

EASYJET UK LTD 24,013
BRITISH AIRWAYS PLC 18,288
JET2.COM LTD 12,070
TUI AIRWAYS LTD 8,857
LOGANAIR LTD 5,284

His words: “We were the third largest UK airline measured by flights in the year, safely and securely completing 48,922 sectors”

https://ukaviation.news/bbc-to-air-a...s-busy-summer/

Don't forget the £££££MMMM's they git for this documentary that was aired on BBC Scotland earlier this year. Probably available on BBC iPlayer, a lot of flight deck footage. Its Tunnocks Caramel Wafers that you get on board not Shotbread lol. Does the money for the essential services to the remote islands come from gov.scot or gov.uk? The two "world's only" flights. Barra beach landing and world's shortest flights are always packed out during the summer. In actual fact the 1mile flight priced at £17 is one of the most expensive seats in the world per seat mile.

I doubt they were paid anything for taking part. It's all free advertising.

I flew on Logan earlier this month, and you get a choice of shortbread or Tunnocks :)
Re the £17 for the two-mile flight from Papay to Westray: it's part of a bus stop service that goes Kirkwall-Papay-Westray. There's a ferry between the two islands , so the only folks who fly just from Papay to Westray are tourists doing it purely to say they've done it. Any non-tourists who fly the route are folks flying Kirkwall to Westray or Papay to Kirkwall.

Nice one