Three ATR 72s operating a reasonably intensive schedule would require an establishment of about 30 cabin crew but whether these would all be IOM based only LM know.
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30? That’s a bit overkill. I would doubt the establishment would be anywhere near that number.
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Since LM has been on the scene in the IOM the cabin crew base has been 4 full timers with the ATR42/S2000 (single cabin crew member) covering just LCY/LHR, with crew from GLA & ABZ frequently drafted in to cover leave, shortages, sickness etc - the ATR72 needs 2 CC. I know of 1 IOM based hostie who has just left so I'd estimate a base of at least 24-25 would be needed.
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With my qualification of a “reasonably intense schedule “ a reasonable rule of thumb is five crews per aircraft to allow for leave, sickness etc. Cabin crew for AT7 is 2 so 5 crews x 2 crew members x 3 aircraft equals 30 crew members. I do actually know what I’m talking about. Obviously a more relaxed schedule would need less crews. Obviously if LM prefer to cover leave, sickness etc from GLA then you need less IOM based crews.
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LM have recent days removed from sale there flights from both NCL and EDI to BGO and SVG.
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Norway has indicated that it will not be particularly easy for those who are neither citizens or residents to enter Norway for a number of months. Loganair may have taken this into account in their decision on routes between the UK and Norway
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When Stobart had the base there were easily 20+ cabin crew (more I think) to cover 2 based aircraft and a similar number of pilots ... so I think the comment above is pretty fair an accurate, you can slightly reduce the number of standbys etc with more aircraft but at 3 based units the economies of scale are not huge.
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According to planespotters.net G-SAJB/JU have both been permanently withdrawn from service and will not be returning after their stints out of service last year. This is inline with a previously published schedule that only displayed 2x ER3s in service operating from NCL. Hopefully this is all that is being culled at this point.
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Lots of routes today have seen significant cuts today in frequency. EDI/GLA-SOU has lost around half of their services per week amongst other cuts on ABZ-BHX/MAN/NWI. GLA-BHD has been removed until September too.
In light of this it looks fair to say more of the ERJs will be pulled this summer. A sign of things to come for W21/22 or a platform to build upon? Time will tell. |
I do feel for Loganair as it’s a good company, well run with a good brand identity but they are not going to be taking over the best ex Flybe routes.
Flybe will simply take them back and I doubt Loganair will put up much of a fight for them or any other new ones Flybe choose to fly, unless codeshares play a part. Flybe will simply undercut them and seize on their debt free advantage. New Flybe are in a safe harbour whilst surviving airlines are out at sea facing down the coronavirus storm and suffering. Fate is cruel as this situation is not of Loganairs making, where as Flybe got themselves in the **** over a number of years. |
You look at the Teesside routes with no passengers ..almost.Are they being massively subsided by the Teesside mayor..or are they genuinely putting their faith in a Teesside suspect business plan?
Strange and worrying times.. |
Jamie2009
I wouldn’t be so sure. It’s not cheap to launch an airline. Flybe will quickly run up costs. They will need a lot of advertising and PR given everyone thinks they are that airline which corona killed. It wasn’t a hugely popular brand either - the whole Flymaybe nickname from a lot of people. That costs money to repair that reputation. Loganair have fought and won against Flybe before. Flybe will also be fighting others on most of the routes too - Eastern, BA Cityflyer, Blue Islands have all ramped up ops. |
Let's worry about "flybe" when they launch.....if and when! MME-LHR is also intended to connect the region to the world over LHR, not something that's possible given the current market, all depends on how long they can fund a loss leader.
I agree that flyebe2 could well inflict serious damage on the survivng UK airlines. |
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With every new route announcement, I am worried that Loganair is overstretching itself...
Let's hope the prey is not too big to swallow for them. They are pretty much the last man standing when it comes to regional air services across the UK |
ABZ DUB a pretty safe bet I would have thought. Some of the S340’s remaining and the ‘old’ Embs all getting long in the tooth but LM seem to be able to keep ageing aircraft alive and well so even with a stretched timetable hopefully not to many tech dramas.
Lots of these routes will chop and change over the next 12 months so probably not a huge net gain |
To be fair, the 'old' ERJ's appear to be a good 3-4 years newer than some of the 'new' ATR42's they are getting to replace the SF340's which are only about another 3-4 years older than the ATR's are!
I also see on Jethro's that the two ex. Flybe ATR72's are due to be returned later in the year, but with 4 other ATR72-600 aircraft joining. I assume two of these are direct replacement and the other two are for the IOM operation. Wonder if they have plans to grow this fleet in the longer term - I would think routes like EDI/GLA-SOU and ABZ-MAN/BHX ultimately should be able to support the volume without them having excessive capacity. |
Anyone know why G-RJXH never got re-registered like the other Embrears?
Also if there are any plans to finally sell the 328s? |
Haven’t the 328s technically be for sale for a while. It’s been more a problem of there being no buyer.
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It was last painted in the summer of 2018 into it's current white scheme under BMI so it simply wasn't due a paint like the rest were upon their transfer to Loganair and thus never got the opportunity to get re-registered in the process would be my interpretaton. Lack of neccesity coupled with the current climate may never see it become G-SAJE has had been widely speculated however I could very well be wrong.
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Change is supposed to be happening fairly soon. The aircraft needs a few days on the ground for the change to happen. G-INFO is showing change of registration opened last week and due for review in two weeks time. I doubt it's been a massive priority and XH is also one of the aircraft which has been flying without much of a break.
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If it's not a silly question, what's the significance of the G-SAJx registrations ?
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Scotlands Airline Jets
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Just saw this today, however it's dated 30th July. Who could he be referring to? :D
I assume that the three big low cost airlines he means are Jet 2, easyJet and Ryanair. Airlines' biggest enemy are themselves - Loganair boss - Business Insider “In terms of the three big low cost airlines operating out of the UK, one of them is acting in a very measured and controlled way, one of them has come close to losing control and taken some pretty judicious steps to get back there, and the third one has lost control of its business and unfortunately just haven’t realised it yet." |
What about Wizz?
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Ryanair, Wizz and Easyjet respectively was my guess on reading this.
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SealinkBF
I read that and thought pot, kettle, black |
Maybe he should concentrate a little more on his own business and instead tackle the ridiculously high fares on many of their routes!
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If a company has a (near) monopoly on its products - eg domestic routes within Scotland for Loganair... ridiculously expensive prices tends to be profitable. Demand might be lower, but the profit margins more than make up for it
Loganair has little reason to cut those ridiculously high fares |
I think Link Kilo probably has nailed it with the airlines and the order in which they appear in that comment.
The fares discussion is quite funny. It's not as though selling low fares on regional aircraft has worked out especially well as a business model in the UK of late. Most airline CEOs, with a few very notable and public exceptions, tend to try to find ways to increase yields rather than decrease them. I can't imagine Loganair would be any different. |
SKOJB
FlyBe did exactly that and it didn’t work. |
Based on albeit limited direct and indirect experience, I have to say that Mr Hinkles is a very astute businessman. He knows what he's doing, he knows how to do it and he's happy to share his knowledge and expertise - be that positive or brutally honest constructive feedback.
The high fares being charged on certain routes are what is keeping them afloat and as has been said, their is no reason to reduce those fares. They're lifeline routes and the people that use them as a lifeline are afforded discounts. The rest of the passengers can choose to pay the premium. Just to re-post the quote in full, I think it's clear that he has a pretty damning view on easyJet and their recent practices. “We have a number of competitors who are doing things which are bizarre - piling aircraft into the UK domestic market, flying 180 person planes with 20 to 30 passengers on board - and that is having some impact on Loganair. “There will be questions when we will eventually get an outbreak in sanity from some of the more outlandish things that we are seeing from one carrier in particular. “In terms of the three big low cost airlines operating out of the UK, one of them is acting in a very measured and controlled way, one of them has come close to losing control and taken some pretty judicious steps to get back there, and the third one has lost control of its business and unfortunately just haven’t realised it yet." Loganair really do know what they're doing, they're a good balance of optimistic and risk averse. I think they could possibly have done more to gain traction after the demise of Flybe and take on some of the key routes that worked for them, but other than that they seem to be doing all the right things and plus, we had a pandemic that put paid to most growth opportunities. I hope to see Logan and British Airways work together in the future. I do believe Cityflyer and Loganair in particular could be a very good partnership in certain niche areas. I wish their foray into Teesside the best as well, there were only 7 of us on MME-LHR on Friday (16 on MME-BRS, and a decent amount seemed to get off ABZ-MME) but I was told things are picking up - "sometimes we have double figures." I hope there's more to come from Loganair at Newcastle too, there are a few gaps they could fill quite nicely and I'm sure their Scottish work will remain as strong as ever. Very pleased to see that service has returned to Loganair as well and I must say Teesside is one of the best UK airport experiences I think I've ever had. |
Loganair's latest ATR 72-600, G-LMTA was delivered into Aberdeen last night(19th). This is the replacement for G-FBXA, with the replacement for G-FBXB due next month.
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where are XA and XB going?
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Return to lessor Nov/Dec
Loganair Fleet List (jethros.org.uk) |
Loganair is so far the only airline to receive money from a £4.5m Department for the Economy scheme to support Northern Ireland’s domestic air connectivity, Business Telegraph can reveal. The Scottish airline told the Belfast Telegraph it has received money for four Belfast City Airport routes under the NI Domestic Aviation Kickstart Scheme (NIDAKS), which closes in less than a fortnight. It flies to Aberdeen, Dundee, Inverness and Teesside International in England from Belfast. |
My first flight with LA couple of weeks ago on an ATR72.
Was surprised to receive a snack and drink (well a biscuit and a beaker of water), although that did not really make up for the mugging that the corporate credit card took. They were very strict that Bluetooth was not to be used. Not sure what that was all about, but rather murdered the point of my noise-canceling headphones. |
The bluetooth policy stems from Saab themselves, Crossair 498 crash had many theories that led to phone interference (hence the original ban) and Saab then never certified the 340s for use with bluetooth and still haven't, so LM has a blanket ban on it. However there was quiet talks about LM trying to get the paperwork for the other fleets in order soon enough to allow. Free inflight serviced with added hot and cold drinks fully resumed yesterday which is good.
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Would agree on your assessment of the CEO. Traction after the fall of Flybe however was not possible as every airport had stopped bar essential travel. I did enjoy the cup of tea on my last flight.
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