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-   -   Jet2 4 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/466290-jet2-4-a.html)

mockingjay 23rd Mar 2015 11:19

I wrote to my MP recently on another travel related issue and I found the whole experience to be very positive. The local MP got me the information Ineeded and in good time.

With EU261 one however, I won't be writing to anyone about it. I feel if airlines have spent millions battling this through a court of law then what can I do? I'm just one little person writing to my MP.

111KAB 23rd Mar 2015 11:53

mockingjay - you will probably find your MP not too bothered about 261 (particularly at the moment!) as it really isn't a vote winner however your MEP may be a little more interested as it stems, after all, from the EU.

The airlines (Jet2 in particular hence on this thread) have put a lot of effort into defeating UK claims via local, county, high, appeal and supreme court action however they (like many others) have put little or no effort, into tackling the law at source. Indeed if it were not for the Gibraltar EU fiasco the law would probably be made even tighter.

In 2012 my MEP knew nothing about 261 - he actually departed in the last election and I then had to 'brief' the new MEP - unfortunately whilst she has contacts on the Transportation Committee she is not on same so my route of communication is diminished.

The airlines have generally relied upon the CAA/NEB representing their wishes however as can be seen with regard to press releases over the weekend/today the CAA appear to be giving into public pressure.

handler 23rd Mar 2015 12:57

Full year 2014 Source CAA

Comparison of the largest operators.

Top 20 by number of flights operated, Arrival OTP

FLYBE 85.37
CITY JET 87.53
JET2.COM 74.49
WIZZ AIR 86.63
SAS 80.17
KLM 86.35

Top 20 by number of flights operated, Departure OTP

FLYBE 78.7
JET2.COM 82.0
SAS 88.8
KLM 87.2

When compared to 2013 figures, Jet2 OTP has improved by 7% on arrival and 10% on departure

BasilBush 23rd Mar 2015 13:41


It wasn't me that posted ACL data, but like you I recall reading about it on this site somewhere. And the % increase for STN was quite a bit higher than for MAN, so the gap between the two airports will continue to close.

Maybe this discussion is better on the STN or MAN threads...

Meanwhile here is the link to ACL http://www.acl-uk.org/UserFiles/File/STN_S15_SOS.pdf

Seats up c9% on last summer

MANFOD 23rd Mar 2015 15:28

It wasn't me that posted ACL data, but like you I recall reading about it on this site somewhere. And the % increase for STN was quite a bit higher than for MAN, so the gap between the two airports will continue to close.

Maybe this discussion is better on the STN or MAN threads...
Thanks Basil. I realise we were a bit off topic but appreciate the link.
I'll post something on the MAN thread.

2Planks 24th Mar 2015 14:03

Given that Jet2 is run by a team of professional businessmen (lets face it these days you have to a ruthless streak to compete) I am not surprised they challenged EU261 as it appears to have more (loop)holes than the proverbial Swiss Flight Safety Cheese. That said, after the number of times it has been tested in the courts, the writing is more than on the wall and for the sake of reputation it is probably time to shut up and pay up.

As for the compensation culture - some aircrew have been getting very tendentious about 261. I can only assume that they have never claimed for a mis-sold endowment or a mis-sold PPI and would never claim from the NHS if one of their family was a victim of medical negligence. 261 was set up to protect customers from rapacious companies, I have yet to hear from anyone complaining about the savings people have made on mobile calls abroad thanks to EU mandates. Thanks to 261 we now have a better service as companies have been forced to put in mitigation plans - Jet2 being a prime example.

However, I think 261 is ripe for review. It was drafted before the locost boom and its compensation levels can be ridiculous. I think the model of the Directive on ferry delays (1177) is much better (and clearer). Compensation here is based on a percentage of the ticket price (and that % rises with the length of the delay); food, accom and comms also have to be provided. On the other hand I would like to see more protection for the customer to prevent cancellations or provide reasonable compensation when flights are cancelled due to 'operational reasons' (ie they are running at a loss). Currently an airline can hold your money for over a year and then cancel the flight with 2 weeks and a day to go and you only get your money back. In one instance a Leeds based carrier cancelled my return leg with 2 weeks and 2 days to go (so a week and 2 days before the outbound) so I had to incur a number of costs to ensure the other elements of my holiday were not lost - a highly cynical move on their part. Again the market has moved on since the early noughties as many more book elements of their independently so IMHO compensation should be mandated.

BasilFawlty 24th Mar 2015 19:39

Anyone with a full list of how many aircraft each base will have this summer?

anothertyke 25th Mar 2015 14:50

2 Planks-- but surely a claims based approach would be extremely bureaucratic. The circumstances of 200 people on a plane delayed by eight hours or cancelled would all be different.

I have been on trains delayed by an hour, got my fare back and felt quids in. I've been on trains delayed five hours, got my fare back and felt undercompensated. It sounds to me like a simple formula system with an element of rough justice would be more practicable. Beyond that it should be up to the individual to take out the right kind of travel insurance to cover them against risks.

2Planks 25th Mar 2015 20:07

Fair point, and a tad more admin perhaps - but as every claim has to be verified anyway - it would only be a couple of extra button pushes before the money is sent. If P&O can manage it with a ferry with 1200 people on (my only experience with 1177) I'm sure an airline can.

El Bunto 26th Mar 2015 07:28

I think the model of the Directive on ferry delays (1177) is much better (and clearer). Compensation here is based on a percentage of the ticket price (and that % rises with the length of the delay); food, accom and comms also have to be provided.
EU261 does have a proportional-rebate clause for involuntary downgrades.

I believe it wasn't adopted for the delay / cancellation conditions because it would tempt airlines into favouring one group of passengers over another ( e.g. if the business-class-fares London City flight went tech, dump the tourists off the cheap-fares Ibiza aircraft and use it instead. ).

castleford tiger 28th Mar 2015 09:26

I thought 400 hours was a limit imposed on flying hours.


Station_Calling 28th Mar 2015 18:15

900 flying hours in a rolling year. Up to 100 in any month. This is different to duty hours, which are much greater.


rudolf 28th Mar 2015 18:23

NO apology needed CT, you invest in the company that provides my livelihood. Things aren't perfect but then I don't think there are any jobs available at Utopia Airlines; the most important thing is that we generally look after our customers despite what some may say with regards to the very badly written piece of EU legislation that is EU 261.

GLAinsider 29th Mar 2015 21:28

It is true that the Jet2holidays livery is unpopular with many "purists" (myself included), however, like it or not, Jet2holidays PAX are now the bread and butter of the airline and it is totally understandable that the company want to push that side of the business.

Even I have to admit that when you see several EXS aircraft lined up side by side on remote stands in Jet2holidays livery they do stand out, making a great advert for "Holidays" and with much more impact than they would for Jet2.com in red and silver!

Jet2_738 30th Mar 2015 07:40

I agree also that when lined up on remote stands, the LSholidays livery is very effective, especially given that a large chunk of the business is now based around that area. Still, its nice to see that they are still painting them in the original red/silver livery. :ok:

SWBKCB 30th Mar 2015 08:20

original red/silver livery
Only it's not the original red/silver livery, it's the current one.

Anyway, enough colour scheme talk.

paully 30th Mar 2015 08:42

Jet2 now appear to be following the Thomson business plan. That is using their own flights, primarily, to fill their`s and other operators package holidays.The seat onlys that are left, are sold at rather higher prices, albeit not as eyewatering as Thomsons.But if it works and keeps many people in jobs then fine.

El Bunto 5th Apr 2015 09:09

Any word of G-CELW? Poddled from Belfast to Leeds on Thursday at low altitude after a couple of days AOG.

BasilFawlty 5th Apr 2015 13:24

Sounds like a pressurization problem.

pug 6th Apr 2015 10:05

positioning for repair I believe..

Jet2_738 6th Apr 2015 10:26

G-JZHC is at Bournemouth getting its repaint, into the Silver Mica (Red and Silver) livery, whilst G-JZHB has been painted, and has the name Jet2Malta now on the side :ok:

silverstreak 6th Apr 2015 11:41

Cant wait for the B737-9ER to arrive :ok:

Lord Spandex Masher 6th Apr 2015 12:43

You're 5 days late. ;)

LBIA 6th Apr 2015 15:22

Rumour has it come the Paris air show Jet2 are to order 6x Boeing 737Max aircraft.

Lord Spandex Masher 6th Apr 2015 16:38

Well that's another rumour to add to the many doing the rounds already.

chuzwuza 6th Apr 2015 17:42

737-9ER???? You sure?

B737900er 6th Apr 2015 18:09

More like A320's :ok:

Jet2_738 6th Apr 2015 18:45

Jet2 won't change type any time soon. They have got a fleet of mainly owned aircraft, which in their older age will not be so easy to shift. With type change comes expense. 737-9's are more likely as they have been going a few years now and are on the second hand market already. I would also certainly not rule out the 737MAX's, but of course, these are brand new, and if ordered, would be of a fewer quantity (maybe 5 or 6). One thing for sure, they won't be changing type to Airbus, even if they do have one on lease for the summer. :ok:

bluepilot 6th Apr 2015 19:29

i heard it was a deal with AA for a larger number of 757s

Sean Dillon 6th Apr 2015 20:16

And the "Airliner World" zombie army keep marching!

Flying Wild 6th Apr 2015 20:36

I heard they're taking on ex-BA 747-400's as they are retired and are going into high density bucket and spade to Spain, etc as well as long haul Jet2 Holidays...

B737900er 6th Apr 2015 21:01

Higher chance taking on A340-200's than B744's. At least the 340-200s use the CFM engine, which Jet2 already have spares for.

SWBKCB 6th Apr 2015 21:04

1st of April was last week...

TSR2 6th Apr 2015 21:09

Air Atlanta Icelandic anyone, with their 517 seat B742.

Artie Fufkin 6th Apr 2015 22:32

The new aircraft order is coming. Airbus was the front runner, with the order a pretty much done deal back in Feb. Boeing got wind of the fact they were about to loose a large order to Airbus and came in with an improved offer, which is now being considered. Apparently, PM insisting that the all the Airbus conversions could be done on the cheap in Bradford was met with raucous laughter in Toulouse.

A certain someone reckons fleet order circa 70 airframes. Allegedly.

A330 wet lease cancellation may be ominous.

Jet2_738 7th Apr 2015 08:24

LCC's tend not to have a a mixed fleet, and this is part of their success. Realistically, it would be a Boeing order.

The thing about Airbus having a done deal, (allegedly, I know) is that Jet2 would use this in order to drive a better deal with Boeing. I do think they will go long haul, in the very near future, but instead, that will be with something like a 8-10yr old 767-300WL. Otherwise, I think if there is any big order, the likelihood is lots of new 737NG's, and maybe a good few 737MAX's.

If rumour stands correct, hopefully we'll all know sooner, rather than later. :ok:

paully 7th Apr 2015 09:48

For the sake of doubt!!
738..........sorry but I think you will find Flying Wild was taking the :mad::ok:

Flying Wild 7th Apr 2015 12:05

Originally Posted by paully (Post 8935633)
738..........sorry but I think you will find Flying Wild was taking the :mad::ok:

It is a rumour network after all...! :=

Brigantee 7th Apr 2015 15:08


Lord Spandex Masher 7th Apr 2015 16:43

Rather inaccurate Jumbo old chap.

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