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-   -   Jet2 4 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/466290-jet2-4-a.html)

Mr @ Spotty M 22nd Oct 2014 04:33

The a/c is going to be 9M-XXM with substitute a/c 9M-XXC both RR powered. :ok:

JonnyH 22nd Oct 2014 08:59

If they're just getting one, which it looks like they are, it'll be interesting what contingency plans they'll have in place if it goes tech.

It'll be an expensive lease if all doesn't go as planned - shipping a full A330 load across 2/3 other aircrafts or leasing in another is not going to be cheap. I'm sure the company they're leasing off won't compensate a lot to them depending on the issues.

Don't mean to be so doom and gloom but surprised nobody has not mentioned this yet.

It could still be a good move for Jet2 though if it all goes smoothly - I imagine there'll be plenty of s for them and could change the structure of their business for future years.

Lord Spandex Masher 22nd Oct 2014 09:03


Originally Posted by JonnyH (Post 8708393)
Don't mean to be so doom and gloom but surprised nobody has not mentioned this yet.

They have mentioned it, just where it matters and not on pprune.

paully 22nd Oct 2014 09:36

Interesting move by Jet2 and I wish them well...Good company to travel with...I presume this will be a wet lease with a couple of Jet2 staff supernumary in the cabin, as it were??

Lord Spandex Masher 22nd Oct 2014 09:37

It'll be a damp lease.

N707ZS 22nd Oct 2014 10:20

There was mention of two in one grapevine message.

VC10man 22nd Oct 2014 10:46

I see the A330 is 8.6 years old and has only had 2 previous operators.

Are Jet2 starting to get newer planes?

DADDY-OH! 22nd Oct 2014 10:55

So if the introduction of the B787 Dreamliner hasn't reduced the prices of second hand B767's so why would anyone think that the introduction of the A350 will reduce the prices of second hand A330's??????

HOODED 22nd Oct 2014 12:03

I assume the 330 will be purely MAN based. Multiflights hangar at LBA can take up to 757s but any overnight work on a 330 would have to be done outside if they used it ex LBA.

Boris1 22nd Oct 2014 12:46

Strange move, but good luck to them. Hope it works out.

I see that the NCL EK enthusiasts are recommending they take Ex EK A330s? Haven't even got their hands on the one they are leasing, but yeah, makes perfect sense so snap up all of EKs.

This becoming a Slightly worrying obsession

HOODED 22nd Oct 2014 13:34

The EK ones are -200 whilst the leased Air Asia one is a -300. Depends if they want the capacity or the range really given the lease the capacity seems to be what they are looking for. I suspect the lease is a trial to see if the ac fits into the fleet.

EK77WNCL 22nd Oct 2014 15:34

Boris... Don't really think my username has anything to do with it to be honest, only reason I picked it was I wanted a change from my usual (name-initials-age)... I almost went for LS757NCL or G-LSAG but thought EK stood out more IMO.

Anyway the EK frames are along the lines of what they have purchased in the past and will be going cheap.

Ernest Lanc's 22nd Oct 2014 16:23



LS also has to integrate BLK's flying into the MAN operation for next
summer's forward bookings and hopefully it'll swell those ALC and other routes
for them. Having a people mover on the strength is a no-brainer and the A330-343
fits the bill nicely.
Yes MAN will gain PAX from Blackpool's closure. But the BLK based 737-300 jets will now be based at MAN.

Good load factors at BLK, but LS managed with two based 737/300.

Penworth 22nd Oct 2014 16:29

Jet2 have obviously identified a need for more capacity in certain routes during the summer. Given their cautious expansion over the past few years, they wouldn't switch from Boeing to Airbus and from narrow to wide body without a proper business case for doing so. I think a damp lease is very sensible, allowing Jet2's cabin crew to continue providing the Jet2 product while not having any flight deck or engineering responsibilities for a brand new type to the operation.

I would imagine having the ability to sub-lease it to others over the winter for long haul ops and/or to use it themselves for a slightly expanded winter long haul program (ie. the NYC trips or possibly Orlando) is part of the reason it's been decided to add it to the fleet. And if it doesn't work out for whatever reason, being leased, it can always be returned at the end of lease and the program can continue pretty much as it has in the past.

JonnyH 22nd Oct 2014 17:02


Anyway the EK frames are along the lines of what they have purchased in the past and will be going cheap.
Give a few examples of these similar "EK frames" that LS have purchased in the past as EK really only have widebodies..


They have mentioned it, just where it matters and not on PPRuNe.
So, Lord Spandex Masher, what did LS point out about what will happen if this single A330, they're leasing, is not as reliable as they expect? Your comment insinuates you know what they've discussed.. It's pretty obvious they would have discussed it but would be interesting to know what the contingency plan would be as they've got nothing in their fleet that's like-for-like unlike most other carriers and they're probably gonna find it quite difficult to get their hands on something similar, within a short period of time, if there was to be tech issues and it's not gonna be cheap sending out more than one relief aircraft to DLM/TFS etc. and it may not even be possible in the height of summer.

All ifs and buts, admittedly, but it wouldn't necessarily inspire you too much.

However, it's still brilliant to see that LS are testing the waters. It'll be an interesting summer for them.

Lord Spandex Masher 22nd Oct 2014 17:09

I'm not sure it's public knowledge yet so I'm not going to be specific.

They aren't getting their hands on something similar - would you lease another 330 just to sit around as a spare?

They will be able to cover a broken 330 at short notice.

jethro15 22nd Oct 2014 18:07

Anyone able to confirm a leased Titan A320 for GLA Sum 15?

SWBKCB 22nd Oct 2014 18:43

Being reported locally that EMA is to get an extra aircraft next summer?

JonnyH 22nd Oct 2014 18:45


I'm not sure it's public knowledge yet so I'm not going to be specific.

They aren't getting their hands on something similar - would you lease another 330 just to sit around as a spare?

They will be able to cover a broken 330 at short notice.
:ugh:

I'm aware they're not getting anything similar hence why my post was questioning their contingency plans if the only wide body they've got goes tech.. Nobody with an ounce of intelligence would expect them to be capable of having an A330 on standby.

I'll be very surprised if they'll be able to cover a full A330 at short notice in the height of summer especially with their ageing fleet. You clearly disagree and claim to have the "inside" info which is fair enough but there's no way it'll be that black and white - there's so many others factors that need to be considered. Nothing's ever guaranteed in aviation. Do care to enlighten us when you can though.

Lord Spandex Masher 22nd Oct 2014 19:45

No, I don't think I will.

FRatSTN 22nd Oct 2014 21:59


Being reported locally that EMA is to get an extra aircraft next summer?
Yes indeed they are. LS will now base a sixth aircraft at EMA for S15. I believe an extra 733.

Increases on Alicante, Malaga, Palma to name a few. Unsure if they'll be any new routes?

EK77WNCL 22nd Oct 2014 23:29

JohnnyH, what I mean is that some consider EK's A330's to be workhorses and worn out, over used etc due to their high cycles on routes of less than 4 hours, I've seen words such as battered used to describe them. For all some have found a place in minority fleets for airlines like Syphax, I'm sure a lot of them would be considered, and are "dead" aircraft, destined for the desert.

LS has bought "dead" or "end of the road" aircraft before, namely the hard worked Ansett 733's and the similarly hard worked Chinese 757's. I've said before that had BA's 767's been 10 years younger (similar age to EK's A330's) they would have been an even better fit. Oddball aircraft, bought cheap but probably the most commonality LS would get in terms of widebody.

Ian Brooks 24th Oct 2014 08:47

Jet2 very happy with figures according to Northwest Business News

DART Group, the owner of leisure airline Jet2, expects operating profit for the full year to exceed market expectations.

In a trading statement the group, said its reported operating profit for the six months ended September 30, 2014 will be around 10% ahead of the same period in the previous year.

However, it said increased losses are expected in the second half, a function of the continued expansion of its seasonal leisure travel operations.

"With winter 14/15 leisure travel bookings continuing to perform in line with expectations, notwithstanding the important post-Christmas booking period that is still to come, the board is optimistic that current market expectations for full year operating profit will be exceeded," the group said.

Giving an update on trading for the first half of its financial year ending March 31, 2015, Dart said its leisure travel business improved in the later summer months compared to the "challenging" market conditions experienced earlier in the season.

Flight only passengers grew by 8% to 3.07m (2013: 2.84m), while its package holiday product, Jet2holidays, took 771,000 (2013: 635,000) customers on holiday, an increase of 21%.

Consequently, its leisure airline, Jet2.com, flew 4.6m passengers in the six months to 30 September 2014, an increase of 12% over the same period last year, though below the increased seat capacity of 13%.

Dart's distribution and logistics business, Fowler Welch, continues to focus on growing its revenue pipeline and the successful development of existing and new business opportunities but that margins continue to be "very tight", it added.

EK77WNCL 24th Oct 2014 17:47

That's what I'd assume would happen... If so good deal!

alasdair1 24th Oct 2014 22:58

LS 152
 
Hi folks
Again we have a issue in dlm only effecting ls and mon
All cancelled ls 152expected into gla 1515 tomorrow all other airlines tcx,tom &ohy are opperating as normall so no weather issues effecting thr other airlines my freind at dlm says weather is rain only and all other flights are opps as normall as per atm dalaman,site.
Are jet2 in bother or tech as everyone else is.ok

Lord Spandex Masher 25th Oct 2014 04:26

Or is everyone else being a bit.....naughty?

Check Mags On 25th Oct 2014 07:34

alasdair
 
Do you or your friend actually know the difficulties of operating into Dalaman.
It has some very challenging terrain. That combined with the thunderstorms in the area. The whole of that part Turkey is being affected.
Last nights Thomas Cook diverted from Bodrum due weather.

alasdair1 25th Oct 2014 09:27

Hi check mags on,
I am aware as i fly to dlm regularly and my freind was boarding the tcx4513 to aberdeen and.others that left on time i have evidence printed from www.atmairport.aero/dalaman
And fr24which shows all flights opperating as normall my neighbours landed early from dalaman last night and said weather.was great when we picked them up the tom to ncl left on time,lgw,ltn all left with no delays same during the day tcx6557 to ncl,pc to aberdeen etc no delay but all jet2 cancelled

Check Mags On 25th Oct 2014 09:42

Dalaman
 
Well having operated into Dalaman many times, you will be aware of the weather and terrain. You can have all the evidence you want printed from the internet. Having spoken to the Captain of one of our flights that diverted to BJV from DLM whilst he was down route. I can tell you the weather was atrocious at the time of their arrival.
And with all due respect to your neighbours who would have been passengers I presume, their view on the weather and a pilots view on the weather are completely different.
My question to you is, do you fly as a passenger or crew to Dalaman.

yeo valley 25th Oct 2014 09:42

dlm delays etc
 
just think of what aircraft jet 2 operate against the newer kit of tom and tcx. the newer kit will have much better operating issues than the older kit of jet 2.
not saying jet 2 has problems but weather and performance has a big part in operations.

Check Mags On 25th Oct 2014 09:49

yeo valley
 
That is the biggest load of rubbish I have ever seen written down.
The aircraft that diverted were unable to get into DLM due weather. The age of an aircraft has no bearing on any of this.
Thomas Cook and Thomson operate their 757's down to Dalaman and they are of a similar age. In fact the 738's of Jet2 that diverted were newer than the 757/767's of Thomson and Thomas Cook.

alasdair1 25th Oct 2014 09:54

Passengers got home from dlm with no delays and. I agree with yeo that tom opperated as normall with 737_800 tawo in fact i study this and bjv and i have the regs, abd fr24 doesnt lie neather do the customers who flew home

yeo valley 25th Oct 2014 10:00

bt also you must ememnd of season is only days away and if no pax are going to blm then airlines this stage of the season tend to buy seats from other airlines if they have room, and this late all airlines tend to do it.easyjet flies to dlm and they pick a lot of pax from other airlines that cant fill a plane.

Check Mags On 25th Oct 2014 10:03

alasdair
 
Are you a pilot who has operated into Dalaman.
If not, you have no idea of the intricacies involved with getting in there at night with some of the worst thunder storms for quite some time.

Check Mags On 25th Oct 2014 10:05

Yeo Valley
 
You must also remember that this week and last is half term in the UK and the flights are going full. And by full, I mean NO spare seats.

Check Mags On 25th Oct 2014 10:41

Weather
 
Have a look at these METARs.
Display metars
Some pretty significant weather at the time of Jet2s schedule. Also some very significant wind. Which does not affect departures to the south. But will prevent use of the ILS.

Penworth 25th Oct 2014 11:05

Check mags on, there's no point trying to argue with spotters, clearly they have a better idea of what's going on than us pilots! :ugh:

The fact is that night ops to Dalaman with strong southerly winds are not permitted for safety reasons. Whether other airlines have less stringent procedures or not I don't know. But the ONLY reason Jet2 aircraft were diverting were weather related and for the safety of their passengers.

alasdair1 25th Oct 2014 12:33

I know that rway 01 is a vor/dme approach ,
The flights i saw leaving around that time were on a kekik dep routing
But im happy to accept that ls were using it as a precaution
Just i dont understand why the other airlines were continuing with arrivals and departures.

yeo valley 25th Oct 2014 12:49

read the last few posts. its all explained to you in them.
different airlines different procedures.

easyflyer83 25th Oct 2014 14:14

You also have to understand that it is individual captains who ultimately make the decision. If the commander isn't happy then he has every right to divert.


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