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samj 10th Oct 2014 07:45

at Station_Calling:

No need to be like that was there? Someone had a bad day?

Was just a genuine question. In previous travelling exeprience, the majority of flights I have travelled on haven't been full on a 757 for a flight such as MAN-TFS, therefore makes me question whether or not they would full an A330?

MANFOD 10th Oct 2014 08:14

Regarding an A330, there is such a thing as consolidation. For example, instead of say 2 daily flights to Palma with smaller a/c, an A330 could go just daily. That said, whether there are enough such routes to keep an A330 busy throughout the week based on Jet 2's current schedules for MAN for next summer is debatable. If, however, they were aiming for real growth or consolidating flights from other airports at MAN, that would be a different matter.

janeyTA 10th Oct 2014 09:58


That's true - BLK had ease of use MAN uses could only dream about, and people where prepared to pay. Not popping at MAN, I like the airport - But BLK had NO walking.
Blackpool security was like watching grass grow given the size of the flights, and the luggage gets offloaded quicker at Manchester.

Granted no walking within the terminal, but I'd prefer to walk in a terminal than drag my cases across a field in the pouring rain. Also no decent eating facilities, or shops, or anything else. My son dropped us off and picked us up this year, because although they offered 'free' parking it's only up to 15 days. After that it was £10 a day to park on a field.

It's shame it's closed, and people are losing their jobs, but BB didn't seem to have much interest in it so was it ever going to go anywhere?

TSR2 10th Oct 2014 11:26


That said, whether there are enough such routes to keep an A330 busy throughout the week based on Jet 2's current schedules for MAN for next summer is debatable.
Certainly not during the winter months so I cannot see Jet2 investing in any equipment that can only be used for a few months per year.

Penworth 10th Oct 2014 18:05

I have heard that the A330 will operate for Jet2 during the summer then will be sub-leased to Thomas Cook for their Caribbean flights over the winter. Not sure how that fits in with TC's current fleet, but that's what I've heard.

Ernest Lanc's 10th Oct 2014 18:31



Blackpool security was like watching grass grow given the size of the
flights, and the luggage gets offloaded quicker at Manchester.

Granted
no walking within the terminal, but I'd prefer to walk in a terminal than
drag my cases across a field in the pouring rain. Also no decent eating
facilities, or shops, or anything else.
Blackpool security was not that bad - They may had done their job correct, nothing would have got past them.

It never rained ever when I walk the short distance to the a/c, I supposed it must have done at some stage.

You don't always get an air bridge at MAN. I remember a nightmare in 2009/10 - landed back from Lanzarote - We landed nowhere near the terminal. We played follow my leader with bags, up and down steps - Eventually got to security - Took an age, or seemed that way. Of to the baggage reclaim - Yes I had a taxi waiting and it was 4AM before we escaped from T1 - I would never use MAN where the flight returned after midnight again.

As for shops - I go to an airport to fly not buy. In particular outbound. The café at Blackpool was small but good, I never heard any complaints - yes there are a lot of places to eat at MAN, you need a suitcase just for money to pay the bill. Only AGP is more expensive.

take-off 11th Oct 2014 05:20

I think that with the 2 330's , should they arrive or not , they would be looking at sending them at some point a bit further than PMI , or AGP, although on saying that , no reason why they can't fill one on their busier Med routes. Especially in the school holidays , in respect of BLK , I'm sure they will miss that base , as having a captive audience , how many other airlines like that have a airport to themselves, other than those that are booked with jet2 over the next 12 months will fly with them again, but after that pax are now forced to use Man or LPL, give ing them more options of who to fly with , obviously that choice was their before, but people paid the small premium , where as at Man there's a variety of airlines to choose from and compare , their not likely to keep all the pax they had due to what the pax searches for or their travel agent offers them in the future .

sunshine79 18th Oct 2014 13:22

Does anyone know why Airbus were at Jet2 the other day?

EK77WNCL 18th Oct 2014 15:44

-Preparation for the A330? (anymore news on that)
-Maybe LS are looking at some ex EZY A319's?
-Placing an order for some A320ceo/neo's?

Who knows...

Artie Fufkin 18th Oct 2014 16:09


Does anyone know why Airbus were at Jet2 the other day?
757 and Classic fleet replacement is currently being looked into. We are told "all options are being considered, including Airbus product". Seriously, that's what they're telling us. Whether it's true, is a different matter.

Also heard the 330 lease has now been signed, from the proverbial "reliable source". 1 coming for summer only at MAN, the lessor sounds like a sufficiently cheap, tin pot operation to give the rumour some credibility.

CabinCrewe 18th Oct 2014 16:13

...so long as its not wasted on stack em high benidorms and magalufs. People prefer frequency rather than capacity nowadays. Send it off to Sanford.

Artie Fufkin 18th Oct 2014 16:23

The rumour circulating is that the 330 lease is all part of an operation trial for the alleged forthcoming airbus order.

They trialled the narrowbody product at NCL last year with the Titan A320 wet lease (did seem a bit odd at the time, didn't it?) and that the 330 wet lease next summer is the widebody trial. It'll stay shorthaul next summer, but they're looking to order 330s for operation to Florida /Caribbean at some later date, but will shove it on the upcoming narrowbody order for max discounting.

That's the rumour.

sunshine79 18th Oct 2014 16:39

Thanks guys, I was wondering why they were in the building. We were discussing hopefully bringing in an A321 if they bring back the SSH route

LEEDS APPROACH 18th Oct 2014 16:51

JET2 A330
 
I notice that a good few LS destinations from LBA in summer 2015 have less flights per week than this or last year. Could this be the A330 doing a 'W' out of MAN for certain destinations?

The aircrafts performance could be evaluated from LBA and this would fit in with the reduced amount of rotations as well as not using up overnight parking space at LBA, of which there is none. The airbus to 'W' in at the quieter times at LBA if possible?

EK77WNCL 18th Oct 2014 18:33

So LS are looking at new builds then?

silverstreak 18th Oct 2014 19:46

... the A330 lessor - a certain far-eastern low-cost outfit perhaps?

LBIA 18th Oct 2014 19:59

Air Asia X A333 by any chance?

EK77WNCL 18th Oct 2014 20:48

Always wanted to try D7... And MAN is easier to get to than KUL. This might help Jet2 turn over another page I think.

MKY661 18th Oct 2014 23:11

Taken from Jethro's site:

Airbus A330-343 | 9MXX- |To be lsd fm Air Asia X|Sum 15. Bsd Manchester

LBIA 18th Oct 2014 23:19

Even though it's going to be MAN based it will make at least one appearance at LBA next summer.

EK77WNCL 19th Oct 2014 01:43

How bout us up here in Geordieland?

Jet2krazey 19th Oct 2014 09:59

Airbus
 
Why would they be looking at a fleet upgrade to Airbus after building a £9million training facility filled with Boeing Simulators, Airbus must have been at Jet2 head offices, surely just for Engineering support? 😳

Lord Spandex Masher 19th Oct 2014 10:39

There's a fair bit of room at the new facility...

HH6702 19th Oct 2014 14:09

Why did easyjet change from Boeing to Airbus??

Price and the best deal same may happen here

EK77WNCL 19th Oct 2014 14:23

I'm doubtful, I think it was more likely A330 related. I see it more likely LS getting a few A330's than changing their business model completely going from buying used Boeings 10+ years old to a brand new Airbus order.

Facelookbovvered 19th Oct 2014 15:42

Catch 22 for Jet2
 
I don't doubt that Jet2 could raise the funds to finance a new (as in direct from the factory) fleet, but their business model would struggle to support it, a new fleet would require far higher utilisation than what they could do with their current business model or current fleet. Jet2 do next to nothing in terms of point to point schedule flying outside of a few med destinations.

Whilst their fleet is now quite large, in pax volume they are a millions of pax light compared with Ryanair/easyJet/Norwegian, even Monarch move more and yes i know Jet2 are profitable, but that is probably a lot to do with the low capital cost of their current fleet

EK77WNCL 19th Oct 2014 15:55

Yeah as you say, probably some of the only benefits of a new fleet would be that they could operate (or would be forced to operate) more high frequency, i.e operating 4/5 weekly where they currently operate 2 weekly, but that doesn't mean the routes are going to be profitable. And then there was something about their current fleet being mostly paid for so all they pay for is operating and maintenence. No need to pay for things like leasing etc.

INeedTheFull90 19th Oct 2014 16:07

They need to stick with what they're doing. It works. They need to know who they are and stick with it. You need your niche in aviation to make money and you need focus. Just ask AIr Berlin, MON and BD what happens when you don't know who you are trying to be. New Airbus and A330s will be the downfall of them.

VickersVicount 19th Oct 2014 17:14

"New Airbus and A330s will be the downfall of them."
Someones been to drama lessons ?! If you dont consider development and build slowly on existing experience, you stagnate and then thats when you sink

Artie Fufkin 19th Oct 2014 18:07


I don't doubt that Jet2 could raise the funds to finance a new (as in direct from the factory) fleet, but their business model would struggle to support it, a new fleet would require far higher utilisation than what they could do with their current business model or current fleet.
Jet2's business is widely misunderstood. .com is now Holidays's bitch. The business was diversified away from scheduled low cost towards package holidays back when the credit crunch hit, specifically to avoid a futile attempt to compete with RYR. It caused some internal strife, with the adjustments to working practices (and how it was mishandled) the primary reason for the Emirates exodus back in 09/10. It's now all about the package holiday customers. A low cost version of Thomas Cook / Thomson.

Recent comms tell us some flights now have 90%+ Holidays customers on board. If a coach is waiting for customers in Cyprus, deep night flying becomes commercially viable, which the current "Queens Of The Sky" cannot manage. That's the way the business is going and it seems to scream for a new, reliable, higher utilisable fleet.

Mixed fleet flying on A320/321/330 would be far more crew efficient (let's face it, crew utilisation is pathetic, most Jet2 crew don't see the "wrong" side of 500 hours a year).


all they pay for is operating and maintenence. No need to pay for things like leasing etc.
The crux of the matter. As the fleet ages, maintenance is becoming crippling. I heard LU is soon to be scrapped due to maintenance costs going through the roof. The NEO vs the classic's fuel burn is probably enough of a cost saving alone.

You don't have to go back too far for it to have been utterly unthinkable that Jet2 would build a state of the art training centre. "But they couldn't afford it"...

Facelookbovvered 19th Oct 2014 18:37

Artie Fufkin
 
Yep agree with much of your analysis, but with Jet2 holidays driving the flying program the business becomes more seasonal, package holiday volume in winter are a fraction of the summer volume and it is for that reason that Jet2 sensibly lease in capacity during the peak 4 month period, but being a package means ATOL and cradle to the grave care when something goes wrong, which they do (both), they could not run the current fleet at the sort of utilisation that the big Lo Co's do and have any chance at an on time performance, as you say stay in your niche and gradually replace the classics with newer kit.

EK77WNCL 19th Oct 2014 20:14

Surely they can continue operating as they are with used aircraft, they can still get "new" A/C just not necessarily factory fresh.

i.e they have the classics while everyone else has the NG's, they're starting to get the NG's now as everyone else starts to get neo's and MAX's, which they can have while everyone else has the MAX 2.0 and the A320eneo (even newer engine option)

They can operate used aircraft acceptably reliably with a non strenuous yet still quite high utilisation over the summer, and still not haemorrhage money over the winter with half the fleet on the ground.

I really want to see the A330 happen, I'm glad it is (or they are definitely on track), I agree it will be risky but I think they can make it work, I have faith in them. Even if it fails, it will be tragic, but I don't think it would finish them off.

samj 19th Oct 2014 20:15

Looking forward to this A330 arrival. I wonder if it will be reliveried for the summer?

EK77WNCL 19th Oct 2014 21:12

Hope so, it would be mighty pretty

take-off 20th Oct 2014 00:55

Maybe , they are looking at the 330's because they can't find any half decent 767's that have been rumoured in the past several times , once the next gen 330's and 350's come online , older versions of the 330 will be coming up for grabs . Would imagine the numbers have been crunched over and over , slow and steady seems to be working well for them, and no reason why in the future it won't still, I think if anything , is what will they use to replace the 737 300's with , or will they just get phased out , replaced with more 800's , or would they likely look to pick up a mix or 319/320's ? Personally think they'd likely stick with the 737's and have a small Airbus long haul fleet . Fast forward 10 years , maybe pick up some second hand early build 787's :ok::ok::ok:

EK77WNCL 20th Oct 2014 01:04

Yeah those second hand terrible teen 78's will be right up LS's street.

I think they should be looking in EK's direction for A330's

SCANDIC 21st Oct 2014 08:41

I thought they would of stuck with Boeing but thumbs up to them for getting something as big as that. I just wonder how long they will keep the 75's for.

yeo valley 21st Oct 2014 09:48

airbus
 
they used to have a couple of a300 freighters be for they got into passengers in a big way.
they were converted to freighters in filton bristol.
it was nice to watch them with crew training out of filton.

Whitehatter 21st Oct 2014 19:33

Midhaul
 
The 'Bus they are leasing is an A330-343. Trent engines and not the very latest bells and whistles HGW version.

That makes it the ideal plane for Canaries midhaul sectors or packed to the rafters with Alicante and Palma passengers. I'd expect it might see plenty of Dalaman and Paphos too. That A333 variant might not be ideal for flying over the pond but as for the LS and Holidays core routes it would fit quite nicely. High capacity, medium range.

LS also has to integrate BLK's flying into the MAN operation for next summer's forward bookings and hopefully it'll swell those ALC and other routes for them. Having a people mover on the strength is a no-brainer and the A330-343 fits the bill nicely.

OntimeexceptACARS 21st Oct 2014 21:34

A330
 
If its Air Asia X as the donor airline, one old as the hills aircraft is a -301 GE engined variant, and possibly unable to go TATL. The rest are -343E variants, built between 2005 and 2014, and unless they are equipped as short to medium haul only, I suspect would be well capable of TATL operations.

Maybe someone would know the differences in more detail?


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