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-   -   EAST MIDLANDS - 6 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/287822-east-midlands-6-a.html)

spitfirealex 12th Aug 2012 01:01

As im new to this forum and EMA is the nearest airport to me I often wonder what lies ahead in the future for EMA ? Is it likely we will see any presence from any international airlines , or see any routes bar the odd exception going internationally ?

Cazza_fly 13th Aug 2012 23:29


ematom1Anyone know why Thomson Airwways managing director is at east midlands this week?
She's also been around GLA too... Apparently not for good reasons though...?

nigel osborne 14th Aug 2012 17:13

Spitfirealex

re EMA.

I think EMA will continue to grow as a freight and charter airline hub.However BHX will be the one gaining more International sched airlines Qatar being the next.

With BHX also getting the runway extension opening April 2014 ,they are in a position also to attract airlines from further away if they want to come.

EMA does get the TOM 787 next summer BHX with a shorter runway does not.Not sure what will happen when it does will TOM want to share a 787 with EMA,or decide to have just 1 long haul base in the Midlands ?

Nigel

paul atkins 14th Aug 2012 22:12

Gibraltar 2013
 
With the announcement of BHX getting the Monarch service does that mean the end of this route for EMA i thought the rumour was Monarch for EMA 2013

spitfirealex 14th Aug 2012 22:25

Thanks nigel

So is it highley unlikley we are to see the likes of emirates etc in the near future ? Is this down to lack of facilities or just the fact it is too close to BHX ? One final question are we likely to ever see KLM or any other national carrier take some of the routes that will be missing due to the closure of bmi baby ?

Alex

paully 14th Aug 2012 22:52

Possibly a change of mind by Monarch, although a few weeks ago, the Gib Tourist Minister, Neil Costa announced the EMA - GIB service and said Monarch would be annoucing it in due course. Cant see it making sense to operate now in addition to Brum....though stranger things have happened :rolleyes:..we shall see

ATNotts 15th Aug 2012 08:43

Alex,

I'm afraid that the one advantage that EMA has over BHX - runway length - will be scrubbed out from Spring 2014 when the extended runway at BHX is ready. This will make BHX, with it's greater catchment area plus the ICC and NEC with it's many international events attracting inbound travellers a much more attractive for any long haul carriers that can be persuaded to look beyond London, or Manchester as gateways.

EMA needs "proper" scheduled airlines interlining at principal hubs - something that BMI Baby never offered. Their demise has resulted in FlyBe, that does offer interline facilities through Amsterdam and Paris CDG - in co-operation with Air France / KLM - so in some respects every cloud has a silver lining.

EMA is however an extremely successful cargo centre - much more successful than BHX, or most other airports outside of the South East will ever be, and I still believe that, less glamorous though the cargo side is, it is cargo that will make EMA - not long haul or full service scheduled passenger carriers.

tweentown 15th Aug 2012 10:13

I can't help thinking that the arrival of Flybe and Monarch at EMA is primarily a defensive move by them to protect their operations at BHX rather than having any major intentions for development of EMA services. If a new competitor had arrived at EMA (eg return of EasyJet) or even a major expansion by Jet2, this would be in direct competition with their major BHX operation. Now, with a small presence based on established and popular routes, they will hope to prevent any new competition and meanwhile a number of the 'secondary' routes that Baby were operating have not and probably will not get replaced - and indeed both Monarch and Flybe are now increasing frequencies on existing routes and starting new routes from BHX, presumably to pick up the ex EMA passengers. It seems to me neither Flybe or Monarch have so far lived up to their promises made in the initial hurried press announcements - delayed start ups, reduced frequency, old leased in aircraft etc and no news on any further routes. We shall see.

spitfirealex 15th Aug 2012 13:36

Thanks guys

Thats a shame to hear, is it too early to decide weather the departure of bmi baby will pan out to be a good thing for the airport or not ? Also with bmi now becoming part of the iag will the maintenance facilities at EMA that belong to bmi be just turned into an iag facility or sold on to another company ? Is very likely that EMA will see a rebuild or expansion of their terminal to feature airbridges and larger parking spaces if any international carriers ever decide to start a route there ?

Alex

ATNotts 15th Aug 2012 18:19

Tweentown:

I think you being a little hard on Monarch and FlyBe. Both have stepped into the breach, and neither had planned to do so when their S12 season was being put together. Given that Monarch could hardly have located a handful of shiny new A320s at the drop of a hat, what exactly were they supposed to do (at either EMA or BHX). Sure at BHX Monarch's aim would have been to stifle any new player (such as Jet2 or EZY) muscling in on their territory when Baby's closure was announced.

Moving into EMA seems far less defensive, since Jet 2 are already ensconced and will for sure give them a run for their money.

So far as FlyBe are concerned they would surely have wished to move in on the domestics and AMS / CDG sooner, but if they don't have the equipment free what could they be expected to do.

It has to be said that Baby were losing money hand over fist, probably because they were carrying too many passengers for too little revenue, and some of the "secondary" routes are probably not really viable and as you suggest, and may be lost.

Running an airline is supposed to be about turning a profit, not putting bums on seats irrespective of the costs.

EGAC_Ramper 15th Aug 2012 19:07

Regarding the likes of EK/EY or other big international operators, it would be great to see but in my own humble opinion I'd think any of the sort would be mightily unimpressed by the terminal facilities at EMA and as such prevent them turning up. Ideally it would be great to see the current terminal demolished and a proper new one built. Awful awful terminal!

Regards

ShyTorque 15th Aug 2012 19:21


Ideally it would be great to see the current terminal demolished and a proper new one built. Awful awful terminal!
If you think this one's bad, you should have seen the previous one... ;)

MKY661 15th Aug 2012 21:20


With the announcement of BHX getting the Monarch service does that mean the end of this route for EMA i thought the rumour was Monarch for EMA 2013
Maybe they will do EMA too. They were also supposed to do MAN four times a week this winter too although that is still not bookble either. Only three of the four days are.

spitfirealex 15th Aug 2012 23:15

Seeming the terminal is old as the airport its self the MAN group must be considering a new terminal as the current one is hampering any possible large movements into the airport and isnt really up to the standards of a high class modern airport even with the millions investd into upgrades

Alex

ematom1 16th Aug 2012 14:36

East midlands routes to Asian countries could do so well with large Asian community's in the 3 major cities around the airport, but the airport can't handle heavy movements, aircraft are being parked on cargo aprons due to the main apron being full, what impression does that give to the larger airlines? Plus I'm sure UPS was looking to expand At east midlands airport for 2014?

egnxema 16th Aug 2012 17:18

Forget your dreams of new terminals boys! The first thing airlines look for is volume of high fare paying passengers. If there are likely to be plenty of those the age of any terminal building is irrelevant.

The absence of the long haul airlines you wish for is due to the insufficient demand.

Mr Angry from Purley 16th Aug 2012 18:50

EK A380 the man in the mobile camera car would be a happy man grrh :\

easyflyer83 16th Aug 2012 19:27


Regarding the likes of EK/EY or other big international operators, it would be great to see but in my own humble opinion I'd think any of the sort would be mightily unimpressed by the terminal facilities at EMA and as such prevent them turning up. Ideally it would be great to see the current terminal demolished and a proper new one built. Awful awful terminal!
I don't see EK etc at EMA but not because of it's terminal.......they along with countless other 'full service' carriers fly into other dumps of an airport much worse than EMA. Not that i'm calling EMA a dump.

ematom1 17th Aug 2012 17:48

Airline's move to East Midlands will mean up to 200 new jobs, says boss | This is Derbyshire

spitfirealex 18th Aug 2012 00:57

It says in the article that monarch are one of several airlines looking to fill in where bmi baby used to fly , what airlines could these be ? Easy jet is the immediate choice that springs to mind ?

Alex

ATNotts 18th Aug 2012 11:01

Alex

The gaps have been filled by Flybe (AMS, CDG, GLA, EDI, JER) and Jet2 with extra capacity.

I guess that some of the less obvious routes will have to wait until the economy improves - and that could be a few years away!

Forget EZY, it won't happen, how ever much you want it to.

ematom1 18th Aug 2012 13:02

The capacity doesn't cover what baby had, jet2, monarch, and Flybe have done well in short notice to take over the lost capacity on many routes, but there's still room for expansion from other airlines, doubt easy jet but who knows.

ATNotts 19th Aug 2012 10:35

ematom1

Correct, the capacity may not have been replaced, but perhaps overcapacity resulted in depressed yields, which lead to the losses that Baby incurred, which resulted in their being disposed of by LH and closed down by BA?

Capacity reduction may result in higher yields, and help retain the routes that have been taken up by BE, LS and ZB.

CabinCrewe 19th Aug 2012 11:10

What was the outcome of the TOM senior management visit to EMA ?

ematom1 19th Aug 2012 16:01

Im not saying monarch Flybe and jet2 should take on bmibabys failed routes, but there's room for other airlines to create some new routes from east mids now bmibaby are leaving

Sonic Bam 20th Aug 2012 00:09

Spitfirealex
 
BMI's maintenance and engineering facility closes at the end of the year with everybody except a few who have applied for jobs with BA at LHR being made redundant. BA/IAG are not putting any work into the hangar and it will be vacated by bmi and handed back to the airport. No signs of anybody taking on the hangar lease and saving some jobs.

VC10man 20th Aug 2012 09:32

It seems odd to me that Jet2 and other airlines send their planes all over Europe for maintenance when EMA has a good facility.
It would be good for someone to take the people on and service the planes at EMA. They must be good at their job because Baby's old planes seemed to have good reliability.

TSR2 20th Aug 2012 10:06


It seems odd to me that Jet2 and other airlines send their planes all over Europe for maintenance when EMA has a good facility.
Yes I agree, but in the end it all comes down to cost.

VC10man 20th Aug 2012 11:42

Yes TSR2 I understand that, but it makes you wonder when airlines send their planes to places like Malta, Budapest, China and other cheapo places and then seem to have maintenance problems. If I owned an old 737-300 I would use EMA and have it done properly and well.

Perhaps that is why I don't run an airline!

ematom1 22nd Aug 2012 03:33

Monarch takes off as the new East Midlands airline | This is Nottingham

Says here 2 A321's based at east midlands Quoting " the plan is the network will grow"

Nakata77 22nd Aug 2012 04:05

What a missed opportunity for some publicity. I thought the photo was about some old geezers selling antiques for a new BBC show.

VC10man - Even Virgin Atlantic send some of their fleet to Manila for maintenance. Thats not exactly a reassuring thought but they do seem to keep it well hidden. Virgin have a perfectly good facility at Heathrow too but it may not always be available and the cost of labour at LHR v MNL is hugely different.

OliWW 22nd Aug 2012 11:17

A321's from Summer 2013, 1 A321 for W12/13, Leased A/C for the remainder of this Summer.

ematom1 22nd Aug 2012 14:55

Heard a roumor that a A380 & 787 will be visiting ema sometime soon to test the facility's in the event of a divert? Can anyone confirm?

Invicta DC4 22nd Aug 2012 15:54

A380 Divert airports in the UK other than those already served are BHX, STN & LGW. Not sure why a B787 would need a "test" divert. If you look on the NATS website, there are published A380 Taxi routes for BHX & STN.

OliWW 22nd Aug 2012 20:56

Supposedly coming in within the next two months, don't know how true that is, time will tell.

spitfirealex 23rd Aug 2012 02:09

I did'nt think east midlands could even take an a380, hence when it first entered service it only did a flypast ?

Arkroyal 23rd Aug 2012 12:22

VC10 Man

It may seem ironic, that even with the excellent bmi facility at EMA, bmibaby 737s were sent to Sofia to have major servicing done by Lufthansa Technic.

EMA was only used for day to day line sevicing.

As TSR2 says, it's all down to cost.

You are right though, the 737s are a credit to EMA, with the two (G-OBMP and G-ODSK) which have been with British Midland from new being the best two in the fleet.

odogo2 23rd Aug 2012 16:26

East Midlands can easily handle the A380,it handles the AN 225 the biggest Aircraft in the world so the A380 is no problem.

spitfirealex 28th Aug 2012 13:34

If the 787 and A380 do land will they park in the cargo ramp area ? Also are they both likely to be manufacturer demonstrators ?

nigel osborne 28th Aug 2012 15:44

EMA A380
 
Not aware the A380 has CAA approval to land at EMA. NATS show approved CAA A380 taxiing charts for LHR,LGW,MAN and recently added BHX.Can't find one for EMA.

BHX has also JUST taken delivery of its first tug capable of pushing a 380. The EK one that visited had to use a tug borrowed from LHR.

EK will therefore use BHX,MAN LGW as English diversion fields.

I however see no reason why EMA with its longish runway can't get approval quickly for the type too ?

Nigel


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