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-   -   EAST MIDLANDS - 6 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/287822-east-midlands-6-a.html)

ATNotts 31st Oct 2012 20:28

ematom1

The East Midlands (as a region) doesn't need more leisure air services, it needs proper scheduled services that link the region into the networks of the major international carriers and global alliances.

Ryanair may carry twice the number of passengers as BA does (according to Michael O'leary on BBC Breakfast this morning) but he does nothing, zip, zilch, nada to assist East Midlands exporters get to their worldwide markets from their local airport. Thankfully FlyBe does, and hopefully bmi Regional will, if they can forge deals with Star Alliance.

I can only cite the instance of Mrs ATNotts who needs to go to Hamburg at the end of this month. Inconvenient connections from EMA cost 400.00 plus return, more useful connections from BHX (not even the direct BHX/HAM service), just over half that. I rest my case.

Balair 31st Oct 2012 21:06

ATNotts,

The reason why it is common practice for airports to list all code share flights on their Arrivals/Departures boards is to provide instant information to all those individuals that require it, whether it be passengers transiting the airport with any given airline or meeters and greeters awaiting their arrival (both of which, as we all know, can be can be less than clear thinking at times). The airport managed it with the BRU flights when they were code shared, but have obviously slipped-up in this case!

As far as the booking process is concerned that is an entirely different matter from the point I was making.

Balair

NutLoose 31st Oct 2012 21:28

Last departure of a BMI schemed Airbus


http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/f...h_IMG_0086.jpg

Burnie5204 31st Oct 2012 22:24

Ryanair expansion for S13 announced on todays East Midlands Today.

1 more airframe,
2 new routes,
Increase in frequency of some existing routes.

SWBKCB 31st Oct 2012 22:27


The East Midlands (as a region) doesn't need more leisure air services, it needs proper scheduled services that link the region into the networks of the major international carriers and global alliances.
So there either has to be enough pax in the East Midlands willing to pay enough for an airline to make a profit or somebody (me or you) has to subsidize the service for the greater good of the region.

If Ryanair can make more money flying people to the Costa's, as a business that is what they should be doing.

sunday8pm 1st Nov 2012 08:19

Nottingham in particular has some big employers based there; capital one, experian, eon, boots, revenue & customs etc plus reasonable financial and law sectors. If the airport were linked directly to the city centre the demand for business flights both domestic and to Benelux & Germany would increase a little. You'd also need to add to this links to Derby, Leicester and a mainline train station. What I'm driving at is the fact EMA is simply not easy to get to from all of the regions major employment areas.

Crusher1 1st Nov 2012 09:58

I think the lack of onward connectivity is a problem, one of my regular trips is to the north of Sweden. Going back years I could use the KLM flights, more recently the Sterling flights to Stockholm, but since their demise I've been using BHX/AMS/ARL with KLM or SAS from LHR.

We must be one of the many local companies that have been forced to use other airports, however the AF tie up is a step in the right direction although the prices I have looked at (for Singapore) do seem quite high.

fireflybob 1st Nov 2012 10:29



Nottingham in particular has some big employers based there; capital one, experian, eon, boots, revenue & customs etc plus reasonable financial and law sectors. If the airport were linked directly to the city centre the demand for business flights both domestic and to Benelux & Germany would increase a little. You'd also need to add to this links to Derby, Leicester and a mainline train station. What I'm driving at is the fact EMA is simply not easy to get to from all of the regions major employment areas.

sunday8pm, I agree!

At least after many decades of prevarication they are making the A453 dual carriageway but completion is a way off.

East Midlands Parkway station would not be so bad if they built a monorail to EMA (compare BHX which has same from International to the terminal) but, in my opinion, what they should have done is divert the railway through the airport and put a station at the airport. As you probably know the tram system is being extended to Clifton (finish circa 2014?) and they have asked for tenders to extend the tram line to EMA but I think we are going to have to wait at least ten years for that to happen if it does!

I think what we are saying is that airports need to have good connections to other parts of the transport system. I recall a journey I made to Basle years ago - flew Easy to Geneva - from touchdown at GVA to sitting in the train was 20 minutes with excellent rail service to Basle (and a lot cheaper than the scheduled airfare from BHX via Lufty!)

ATNotts 1st Nov 2012 14:37


and they have asked for tenders to extend the tram line to EMA but I think we are going to have to wait at least ten years for that to happen if it does!
With the UK planning system, and the NIMBYs that will oppose and prevaracate at every turn, not to mention the tramline would have to cross into Leicestershire I think 10 years is extremely optimistic!

SWBKCB 1st Nov 2012 15:31

So all these local businessmen are travelling to BHX and LHR because there isn't a dual carriageway from Nottingham to EMA? EMA does have the M1, A42 and A50 all on it's doorstep so not exactly stuck in the back of beyond!

fireflybob 1st Nov 2012 16:12


With the UK planning system, and the NIMBYs that will oppose and prevaracate at every turn, not to mention the tramline would have to cross into Leicestershire I think 10 years is extremely optimistic!
ATNotts, agreed!


So all these local businessmen are travelling to BHX and LHR because there isn't a dual carriageway from Nottingham to EMA? EMA does have the M1, A42 and A50 all on it's doorstep so not exactly stuck in the back of beyond!
SWBKCB, have you ever driven down the A453 in peak hours (or attempted to?) - also the M1 roundabout near the airport is notorious for bottlenecks with long queues to/from EMA (Friday after about 2 pm is a nightmare!).

Mind you, us locals know the way round but we're not telling anyone!

sunday8pm 1st Nov 2012 17:02

Anyway, as it is we're slowly clawing our way back to the heights of a few years ago. With the FR expansion, monarch, jet2, tcx, tom and further flybe EMA will be approaching the 5m pax mark again by the end of next year.

SWBKCB 1st Nov 2012 19:20


SWBKCB, have you ever driven down the A453 in peak hours (or attempted to?) - also the M1 roundabout near the airport is notorious for bottlenecks with long queues to/from EMA (Friday after about 2 pm is a nightmare!).
You can say same about the M6/M42 at BHX and M4/M25 at LHR. I was making the point that is it really local access that is the reason why EMA doesn't have more 'business' routes? I think it's more likely that there isn't sufficient demand for airlines to make money.

sunday8pm 1st Nov 2012 19:31

Indeed. We're arguing that improved public transport links will increase demand.

Crusher1 1st Nov 2012 20:03

As a business traveller I fly to where I need to go. If the airport is part of an integrated transport system so much the better. However I don't consider it when I book, if it's somewhere I need to visit then I just have to go.

Slightly different if going on holiday though, if I can catch a train or tram virtually to my hotel/apartment then it's a plus point.

So I do agree that a dedicated train/tram station would be good and would encourage people to use public transport to and from EMA. My guess is that the areas such a service connects to would probably benefit from extra visitors who have passed through EMA.

But would it make a major difference to passeger numbers at the airport? Maybe a little but nothing spectacular is my guess.

ematom1 2nd Nov 2012 03:55

Air France code share now on ema arrivals and departure boards

ATNotts 2nd Nov 2012 13:43

That'll be the power of PPRune then!

almost professional 2nd Nov 2012 14:00

If I had known what was involved then I wouldn't have started !
Some credit to my assistant also.

FRatSTN 2nd Nov 2012 15:56

Despite Ryanair saying their summer 2013 schedule consists of 38 routes, 2 new ones with 17 increased in frequency etc. there is yet to be a full summer 2013 schedule on the Ryanair website and none of the routes that are up for summer 2013 are showing an increase in frequency. Does anybody know when a full summer 2013 timetable will be released for EMA and more importantly, which 17 routes is it which are getting the extra flights?

My guess would be the Greek routes increasing to twice weekly and maybe the 5 times weekly Faro flight increasing to at least once daily but I can't think what else would increase. EMA already has some of the highest frequency of Ryanair flights the key Spanish, Balearics and Canary Island destinations, will they really get even more???

sunday8pm 2nd Nov 2012 21:22

Do you know I was thinking the same thing. Maybe it is the case that they plan to add more FAO, PMI, AGP, ALC, TFS, ACE flights at a later date after some demand assessment and it still wouldn't surprise me if they squeeze in a daily return to ORK or SNN as well.

nigel osborne 2nd Nov 2012 21:52

Balair,

I understand the reasons but its getting ridiculous..the other day 25 flights apparently shown on the screen.Yet look closer only 7 arrivals, so many flippin codeshares showing..Id ban them lol !

Nigel

cornishsimon 3rd Nov 2012 09:03

So any hints that an airline might take up the summer WW EMA-NQY route ?


cs

FRatSTN 3rd Nov 2012 11:47

FlyBe have one aircraft doing EMA-CDG-EMA-JER-(W pattern to somewhere else)-JER-EMA-CDG-EMA. The other aircraft based at East Midlands only shows EMA-AMS-EMA, (which operates mid-afternoon/early evening). I think personally that flight will be changed so theres a morning and evening flight to AMS (exactly like they have to CDG) and another route or two will be added inbetween. I think NQY and IOM would be great additions and can see it happening to be honest!

spitfirealex 3rd Nov 2012 22:05

Would there be any likely-hood of KLM taking over the code-shared route to Amsterdam by flybe ? I recently flew MAN-AMS-STV and stavanger and other remote airports have much less demand the ema but still get served by both KLM and other operators ?

ATNotts 4th Nov 2012 10:49

KLM
 
spitfirealex:

Why should they? The benefit of the codeshare to KLM is the passengers connecting worldwide in Amsterdam, without having the risk and associated costs of setting up their own service from EMA.

At this stage I don't see the market is big enough for 2 operators, but in the long term, well, if you're an optimist I guess you wouldn't discount KLM, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting!

ATNotts 4th Nov 2012 10:52

spitfirealex

You flew via Amsterdam to Surat, India? That's not a KL route I'm familiar with??

Burnie5204 4th Nov 2012 11:20

Full planning docs for EMA terminal extension and refurbishment are online at NWLDC planning portal including totally new internal layouts.

Though the planning application is not fully approved yet the airport clearly dont anticipate any problems and plan to start ASAP as all affected shops are completely clearing out all fixtures and fittings as I type this and we've been told to expect to see workmen from tomorrow initially setting up the site boundary and hoardings ready to commence.

From looking at the plans it looks very much a 'rip it all out and start again' job with the shops. Down in the main shopping area between security and Three shires food hall the only shops not affected are Boots and the Ritazza outlet in the east lounge.

Everyone will still walk through duty free (which is moving to where the current security search area is) but access to gates 1-5 will move round to gate 8 and be accessed by a covered walkway with full height glazing to give views onto the ramp round the back (rampside) of the current duty free area to enter the east lounge in the same place as where you currently enter the lounge after the police search area (which wont be there anymore)

spitfirealex 4th Nov 2012 13:00

ATNotts I flew to stavanger ! Got my codes wrong ! Ahh I see, is east midlands likely to see any scheduled airlines operating from here in the near future ?

ematom1 4th Nov 2012 15:19

The plans for the terminal sound great about time it had a change, hopefully will bring a few more passengers through and improve the experience for current flyers :)

spitfirealex 5th Nov 2012 17:35

Is the work an expansion allowing more shop space and seating or just a renovation of current shops to enhance the passenger experience ?

Burnie5204 5th Nov 2012 18:03

From the plans - New security area with body scanners which is being built from new on what is currently the paved area in front of the terminal, duty free moves to where security is currently with a fairly substantial rework of retail space layouts both downstairs and upstairs with the executive lounge moving from upstairs to where the runway bar is currently. Based on the size of the upstairs units I would suspect that these may be marketed for catering though the plans seem to suggest that 3 shires remains untouched with everything either side changing.

Jonty 9th Nov 2012 08:19

Apparently the A380s in today for an engine test, anyone got any details of what it's doing and when? My mum wants to go and see it.

LBIA 9th Nov 2012 08:39

Hope this is off use to you jonty.

F-WWOW A388 AIB27OW eta 0900 etd 1500

handsfree 9th Nov 2012 09:07

It's just landed on 27.

Interesting news about the terminal. Wonder if it'll turn out to be another bodge.

sunday8pm 9th Nov 2012 09:11

Is that a Qantas aircraft?

Jonty 9th Nov 2012 09:20

Thanks guys

Burnie5204 9th Nov 2012 09:40

@Sunday8pm

No its the Airbus Industries Flying Test Bed with a Trent XWB engine in the number 2 engine position.

EDIT: Started counting from the wrong end....

sunday8pm 9th Nov 2012 12:17

Thanks, I did a quick google images of the reg no. on my phone and it came up with Airbus/Qantas livery so wasn't sure if it was the one they first launched in Oz a few years ago.

Balair 9th Nov 2012 12:57

"Interesting news about the terminal. Wonder if it'll turn out to be another bodge."

handsfree,

I don't know what in your view has been "bodged" before, but as has already been stated, the work on the terminal will entail yet another "bolt-on" structure which will house security.
Although this approach is far from ideal it must be accepted that this is the only way forward for the airport to expand. If you think there is any chance of demolishing what is already there and building a new terminal then think again, it isn't going to happen...!
What is more important is that the issue of passenger comfort is addressed asap, particularly the problem of transit between aircraft and terminal in bad weather, but I believe plans are in hand to address this?

One final dig regarding the airport's poor communication skills; AF6404 has been missing off the arrivals board ever since the code share flights were included......ahh they did try though, bless their little cotton socks!

Balair

Burnie5204 9th Nov 2012 13:25

Narp, not in this round of improvements.

This one covers security, retail and access to gates 1-5.

However I know the airport has previously stated that a long term ambition is development of more sheltered aircraft access/egress possibly in the form of Airbridges (again, long term ambition) though I know FR are vehemently against airbridges if it can be avoided as is prevents 2 door access/egress and thereby extends turnaround times.


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