PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Airlines, Airports & Routes (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes-85/)
-   -   EAST MIDLANDS - 6 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/287822-east-midlands-6-a.html)

sunday8pm 16th Feb 2012 08:20

CAA stats show EMA total pax up 2.4% for the year to December 2011 at 4,208,402.

I would imagine 2012 would be a much better year for EMA. Ryanair, bmibaby (provided it stays open) and Jet2 all have more routes this year.

emaint2003 16th Feb 2012 18:47

To put this into context this is less than in 2004! What has all that wonderful Manchester Management been doing for 8 years?

lplsprog 17th Feb 2012 07:59

Looking after MAN what else!:E

INKJET 17th Feb 2012 09:37

There are busy times and dead times at EMA but there seems to be a shortage of overnight parking, could EMA handle another 10 night stopping aircraft for example?

A330 or 777 would cause mayhem in arrivals that already sees people standing outside if 2 or 3 737's turn up at the same time, it will need m's to be spent to grow but I'm sure there's the market out there, but the rub is it would rob MAN

SWBKCB 17th Feb 2012 10:31

How many UK airports have got better figures now than 2004?

ericlday 17th Feb 2012 10:54

Luton for one !!!

TSR2 17th Feb 2012 11:53


How many UK airports have got better figures now than 2004?
Just to name a few:

LHR - 3.2%
LGW - 7.0%
LTN - 26.3%
LPL - 56.0%
LBA - 23.2%

OliWW 17th Feb 2012 12:35

Not all doom and gloom...

Ryanair will further add an extra weekly AGP on a Wed Evening, (now totalling 11 weekly) as well as an extra weekly VLC on a Sat afternoon.

egnxema 18th Feb 2012 14:10

With the schedules at EMA being dominated by LoCo's, whose customer base is overwhelmingly leisure, EMA has done well to be reporting increases at all!

The other airports mentioned with higher growth have a very evident business mix in their passenger profiles.

EMA should still work hard to attract a couple of the legacy airlines to establish minimum 3x daily links to AMS or CDG or FRA - I know BD have the flight, but it does not have an LH code on it, therefore LH do not market the link to its hub and global network.

I genuinely believe with its large asian population, the East Midlands area could be of interest to the likes of QR or EY - they are hugely competitve with EK, who are present at BHX and MAN.

A major factor for QR or EY would be facilites though - there is not a chance in hell that they would even consider a terminal which risks its pax queuing in the rain!!

They would want space to install a private lounge etc.

So it is not only ramp space that hinders EMA - but a terminal buildin that is seriously flawed in its design and complete "unexpandability" :uhoh:

OliWW 18th Feb 2012 16:24

Well considering the facts, Lufthansa own bmi... there is available connections through Frankfurt, it just isn't shown on the airports fairly naff departure board that they are available. The number of connections has grown considerably with the introduction of Frankfurt, flights I'd have said are at least half full on most sectors, which for any bmi regional flight is good.

KLM still has available slots and flight allocations for EMA-AMS which it operated well over 20 years ago, so the possibility still lies, but the fact it is starting to reduce its UK connections, e.g. dropping LPL, reduces the likelihood of them coming to EMA, but at the same time, could be a possibility with spare aircraft sitting around. Generally Cityhopper routes aren't use for passengers travelling to KLM alone, with the majority of passengers using it as a connecting service, which is now more widely available through lufthansa. With IAG taking bmi, whether this continues is yet to be seen, but KLM may take the chance if it becomes available if Lufthansa do not carry the routes on.

The likes of EY, QR and EK will not come to EMA at least within the next 5 years, as the terminal facilities, apron space and general handling isn't upto scratch. They will require prime check-in desks, boarding gates, stands the lot, and the airport cannot accommodate these to them as they are too focused on WW and LS to care.

In terms of this summer coming, the number of flights looks very healthy, well over 30 flights a week to ALC, AGP and PMI, the question will be how will the airport accommodate 3 TOM, 2 TCX, 8 WW, 7 FR, 3 LS, 2 BD and 1 T3 every morning without using the UPS apron, something will have to give, or WW will just have to park aircraft down at the hanger until first wave has gone, as some of their flights leave around 8am.

FR- 18th Feb 2012 17:11

Jet2's 737 will be parked on the 40s, and a few of ryanairs will be pushed out to the 30s even more.

fr-

Montezuma 18th Feb 2012 18:01

FR
 
Bullsh1t.

You got the stand plan?

Nah:-)

OliWW 18th Feb 2012 22:15

Ryanairs will be on the 30's regardless, waste of time putting the LS on the 40's, they need them for the charters, i'm guessing the use of stand 4/5, as its also a late departure for the 733s.

Good luck to the FR's going ontime if they are on the 20's!!

ematom1 18th Feb 2012 23:05

anyone know the link for the ramp/ stand plan layout?

Montezuma 19th Feb 2012 15:05

And the plan while the maintenance is being carried out?

Stands 4 and 5 can't cope with a 75 or 738.

Start again.

OliWW 19th Feb 2012 17:36

As I said, UPS. There was one morning last year where we had two TOM and a TCX down there first wave, not ideal, but its the best they can do.

Skipness One Echo 19th Feb 2012 17:47

EMA Stand Layout

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadba...2012-02-09.pdf

BHX2FRA 20th Feb 2012 17:48


FRA - I know BD have the flight, but it does not have an LH code on it
I think the BD FRA flights are code-shared as LH6524 - LH6529 although they are not publicised at the airports.

Similar situation arises in reverse at BHX/FRA where the LH FRA/BHX flights do not appear on the boards/airport websites under their BD codeshare.

OltonPete 26th Feb 2012 17:46

January pax down 4% & Route Analysis
 
Passenger figures: CAA

EMA was down 4% at 179786 below the 2003 figure similar to BHX/MAN.

I thought I would gave a go at looking at the average pax per flight and load factor. However I have to rely on libhomeradar 100% for number of sectors, which can be hard work due to duplicates and similar entries.

For BMI Baby I have used 140 as the average seats available as they have the 500's based as well.

Brussels - 1085 - 16 per flight 42%

Paris CDG - 5620 - 72 pax - 51%

Chambery - 1817 ????

Dinard - 2230 - 101 pax - 54%

Limoges - 2685 - 112 pax - 59%

Berlin SXF - 4854 - 121 pax - 64%

Cologne - 1744 - 51 pax - 37%

Frankfurt - 21 pax - 43%

Dublin - 13204 - 106 - 56%

Knock - 1740 - 75 pax - 39%

Bergamo - 2144 - 119 pax - 63%

Venice TSF - 2897 - 111 pax - 59%

Amsterdam - 6695 - 66 pax - 47%

Faro - 140 pax - 76%

Alicante - 6389 - 139 pax - 81%

Malaga - 4703 - 138 pax - 79%

Arrecife - 3013 - 151 pax - 80%

Fuerteventa - 2688 - 134 pax - 71%

Las Palmas - 1095 - 55 pax - 29%??????????????? very low wrong figures??

Tenerife - 6820 - 163 pax - 80%

Geneva - 2133 - 119 pax - 80%

Edinburgh 7854 - 70 pax - 50%

Glasgow 7531 - 82 pax - 58%

Jersey 1647 - 82 pax - 59%

Not all the routes shown as some were just a few flights or joint with other
airlines such as BHD.

Pete

OliWW 26th Feb 2012 18:16

FR have been struggling to fill LPA, not just at EMA, but the likes of LPL and BRS as well.

OltonPete 26th Feb 2012 20:07

LPA
 
OliWW

Cheers for the info.

I have doubled-checked the libhomeradar figures and there seems to have
been an extra service on Wednesday 4/1/2012 and if that operated it has
skewed the figures a little bit as I am sure the outbound would have been
virtually a positioning leg or at least split the pax with next days regular service.

Frankfurt was quite low but early days I suppose although crucial to remain a code-share I would have thought once BMIR's future is sorted.

Pete

OliWW 26th Feb 2012 20:21

From what I know and have seen, Frankfurt has been performing a bit better in February, at least 50-55% load

ATNotts 27th Feb 2012 17:28

Passenger Figures - Load Factors
 
Pete,

Some of those figures are absolutely dire, and you've got to ask why FR in particular are still operating the routes - e.g. Dublin, Berlin, Dinard, Treviso. At many other airports routes performing as badly as that would have been chopped - they must have a very good (cheap) deal at EMA and if / when that disappears there will likely be a cull of based aircraft and routes.

Same can be said for Knock and Cologne for BMI Baby.

Frankfurt, on the other hand seems to be doing rather well, and given the normally high yields on the route, Brussels is doing OK too.

dwlpl 27th Feb 2012 17:35


FR have been struggling to fill LPA, not just at EMA, but the likes of LPL and BRS as well.
Using another forum the four months to December on the Liverpool/Las Palmas route, the load factors are 93%, 93%, 83% and 67%.

Cazza_fly 27th Feb 2012 17:54


Same can be said for Knock and Cologne for BMI Baby
Ryanair operate the Knock route from EMA.

I agree some of those figures are poor, but I suspect that similar figures can be seen across the UK on comparible routes for the January period.


Using another forum the four months to December on the Liverpool/Las Palmas route, the load factors are 93%, 93%, 83% and 67%.
Im going to take a guess that OliWW meant for the January-present period regarding this route, as ofcourse during September and October they can easily achieve such load factors.

OliWW 27th Feb 2012 18:17

Cazza_fly
 
I surpose as we are talking about Jan's result, thats a given. Very easily LPA is reaching 170-185s throughout Apr-Oct

OltonPete 27th Feb 2012 19:07

LPA
 
I am still a little suspicious of the EMA Las Palmas figures but here are Bristols,
Liverpool and Luton's for January- all Ryanair.

Bristol, 2177, 121 pax per flight or 64% load factor

Liverpool 2873, 131 pax per flight or 69% (a couple of extra's)

Luton 2811, 141 pax per flight, or 74% (one extra flight)

BHX was 76% load factor but that included Monarch flights.

Some of the destinations operated are a surprise as others just lay-over for a month. It will be interesting to see what survives next winter.

Libhomeradar used again for the number of rotations.

Pete

Forgot the EMA good news, ATM's 3724 up 9.5% - I assume cargo flights.

OltonPete 27th Feb 2012 19:43

LPA
 
Mystery solved re EMA-LPA after receiving a heads-up off forum.

EMA-LPA for January now showing (or did it always show?) 2429 pax.

This equates to 121 or 64% I believe.

I could have noted it down wrong twice mixing it up with the EDI-LPA
figure or the figures could have been entered wrong like Newcastle -
Dubai, which has also been corrected.

Pete

ematom1 3rd Mar 2012 10:53

whats thomascooks aircraft bases for summer A321 + A320 or same as last year 2 A321's? thanks

OliWW 3rd Mar 2012 12:21

Will become 2x A321 from the end of March I believe

ematom1 3rd Mar 2012 15:51

oh thanks mate :)

potash 4th Mar 2012 14:01

FUE
 
FR have pulled Sunday flights to Fue :sad:

OltonPete 5th Mar 2012 20:49

Ryanair 2012 update
 
potash

This is just one of many cutbacks.

Tallinn & Marrakesh chopped

Knock back to five weekly (see NOC thread)

Faro reduced (FR thread)

Palma, Malaga and Alicante also see reductions but remain more that daily.

Other cuts or some might be day changes - BGY, CCF, DNR, LIG, EGC & MJV.

These are mainly April to June and I have at least three flights a day
cut/changed.

So what is it: -

Poor bookings due to over capacity in general?
Crewing issues at FR (alluded to on another thread?)
Dispute with the airport?

Six aircraft required April-June compared to seven last year although I have to admit the original schedule when released was only six but they quickly added frequencies to make it seven based.

Pete

OliWW 5th Mar 2012 21:01

Tallinn figures have never been fantastic it has to be said, I'm guessing its mainly down to issues with the Airport group and crewing issues. Ryanair may also suffer a slight aircraft shortage issue over the summer, and the fact EMA is going to suffer with lack of aircraft stand availability, may also be a reason.

frfly 6th Mar 2012 04:35

The main reason for UK cutbacks was the launch of BUD. 5 Aircraft came from nowhere for the summer schedule. UK bases are the ones that are most expensive to run due to the high levels of taxation. Therefore EDI, LPL and EMA have lost in total 4 A/C split over the bases (1 EDI, 2 LPL and 1 EMA) in order to sustain the 5 A/C needed in BUD.

At the moment there is no crewing issue. Theres around 15 training courses going on around europe and so far all crew from unpaid leave are returning as planned. Not to sure on the F/D side of things.

FR- 6th Mar 2012 06:15

EMA crews from unpaid leave are not all coming back, many have found jobs at easyJet/BA/EK and other airlines, or just left the aviation sector all together. But we have lots of new crews coming over the last few weeks. Even the girls with buns in the ovens were given unpaid leave, and we have about 6 of them at the moment.

fr-

Drive4it 1st Apr 2012 19:26

Hi,

Can anyone advise me of what the aircraft would be for the flight?
EMA - FUE Wed 11/4 TCX

Thanks
Craig

Doody2007 1st Apr 2012 22:29

Hi,

Most likely an A321.

All the best.

Doody

sunday8pm 3rd Apr 2012 19:56

bmibaby routes for this summer seem to be doing well, but who is going to take up all the spare capacity if/when they close? You'd imagine Ryanair expansion but what about a return for Easy?? Maybe Jet2?

ematom1 4th Apr 2012 15:45

I have doubts Bmibaby will close but in the unfortunate case i could see a big expansion move from jet2 most likely


All times are GMT. The time now is 16:12.


Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.