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Old 30th Jul 2022, 14:44
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It is regrettable that the 757 and early 763 frames are clapped out , and pretty much end of life over the Atlantic

DELTA has three sub classes on the 763
Un refurb C26/200 ( used to Edinburgh -about twenty frames ) aged from over 23 to 30 years old!
C36/Y175 ( used Transcontinental and to Hawaii ( 8 frames)
Refurbished C26/W18\Y172 ( used to Heathrow/Amsterdam/ Paris and a few others)

American well they couldn’t care less about Europe these days period ( The shirts in Texas think only of Dallas )

United are well aware of increasing costs and failing reliability of the 757 fleet , and right now I think their already stretched with the 763 fleets and 764 fleets

The 764s are great high season on secondary European routes with C39/Y203 whilst the majority of the 763 frames are far to premium C46W22Y99 including a few acquired late from Hawaiian leaving just 16 763 frames in a two class C30Y184 to serve Europe, and Central American secondary and tertiary markets.

United certainly need a boost in the 180-250 seat medium and long haul market soon or further contractions are inevitable imho.

That will be the A321xlr however not before I believe Spring 2024.


BTW UNITED continue to have one daily rotation with the 757 into Heathrow which has seen at least one tech issue in each month since April , several cancellations and one divert to St Johns .

As for the Dreamliner fleet , there are a tiny fleet 5 or 6 789 currently two class C48Y204 whilst the rest are all premium heavy across all three varieties currently delivered.

Pure conjecture would expect a few more especially the 787-10 frames to be redeployed in a two class arrangement in future for secondary and Hawaiian duties at some point.









Last edited by Rutan16; 30th Jul 2022 at 15:32.
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Old 30th Jul 2022, 19:28
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The whole United B788 and B789 fleet is moving to three class as the Polaris refits are done. Deliveries from N29975 onwards came with Polaris, new livery and Premium Economy. The last 8 B787-10s are coming with Polaris and 3 classes and so the Dreamliner fleet will be fairly uniform. EDI is an A321 destination I suspect, not too long to wait.
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Old 30th Jul 2022, 19:56
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Last media quote was
United plans to take delivery of the first A321XLR in 2024 and expects to begin international service with the aircraft in 2025
So still a significant wait and thats assuming no production delays. Then likely to be only one base eg EWR to start.
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Old 30th Jul 2022, 21:47
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Originally Posted by VickersVicount View Post
Last media quote was
United plans to take delivery of the first A321XLR in 2024 and expects to begin international service with the aircraft in 2025
So still a significant wait and thats assuming no production delays. Then likely to be only one base eg EWR to start.
Also my understanding, and reason I said some contraction however temporary.

Skip at some point they need to replace the Hawaiian 772 fleet and a high premium 787 ain’t gonna be the right creature and I conjecture neither are the max or 321s .
Some of those 787-10 frame really are he best vehicle and certain won’t demand 65 premium seats imho. The clapped out 777-222 aircraft can be swapped with 10 on an almost 1 for 1 basis at some point still that probably another three to five years out at the moment
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Old 2nd Aug 2022, 20:16
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American S23

I reached out on Twitter to American to try and find out if PHL will return in S23. Surprisingly, I did receive a response stating that American “hope” to return to Edinburgh in summer 23. Stay tuned for announcements in the fall about scottish routes. Will they or won’t they? Resource issues apparently in S22. Mainly lack of available aircraft. Although they are notorious for starting then chopping European routes very freely, they must see other US airlines enjoying a bumper summer season in the Scottish market.
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Old 2nd Aug 2022, 22:43
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Originally Posted by Planeraz View Post
American S23

I reached out on Twitter to American to try and find out if PHL will return in S23. Surprisingly, I did receive a response stating that American “hope” to return to Edinburgh in summer 23.
You didn’t honestly expect them to say anything else?
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Old 2nd Aug 2022, 22:46
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Originally Posted by VickersVicount View Post
You didn’t honestly expect them to say anything else?
I was surprised to even get a response! They normally ignore such “enquiries”.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 09:09
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They just retired their 757 fleet, so they'll need to find something else to operate the route. They have a few 787s on order, but deliveries of those are currently suspended, so they'd need to chop something else to operate to Edinburgh.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 09:39
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Amid all the optimism that we read regarding expansion of transatlantic, well any expansion in summer 2023, we mustn't forget that demands on household budgets in the next 12 months are going to include £3500 p.a utility bills, up around £2,000 from 12 months ago, and spiralling food prices. Where is the money going to come from to allow people to fill all the seats on all the extra services anticipated already for next summer?

Running a global travel business is well above my pay grade, but to me, consolidation of what's available in 2022 and retaining that level of business is going to be the best most airlines and tour operators can expect in 2023, expansion looks like a pipe dream. And let's not forget that these higher energy and food costs aren't just impacting the UK, but they are a global problem, so expecting to put inbound "bums on seats" is not likely to lead to much growth either.

2023 is going to be very tough, just what the industry doesn't need after the virtual two year hiatus caused by Covid-19 and the restrictions that were brought in as a consequence.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 10:05
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Amid all the optimism that we read regarding expansion of transatlantic, well any expansion in summer 2023, we mustn't forget that demands on household budgets in the next 12 months are going to include £3500 p.a utility bills, up around £2,000 from 12 months ago, and spiralling food prices. Where is the money going to come from to allow people to fill all the seats on all the extra services anticipated already for next summer?

Running a global travel business is well above my pay grade, but to me, consolidation of what's available in 2022 and retaining that level of business is going to be the best most airlines and tour operators can expect in 2023, expansion looks like a pipe dream. And let's not forget that these higher energy and food costs aren't just impacting the UK, but they are a global problem, so expecting to put inbound "bums on seats" is not likely to lead to much growth either.

2023 is going to be very tough, just what the industry doesn't need after the virtual two year hiatus caused by Covid-19 and the restrictions that were brought in as a consequence.
It usually takes something ‘physical’ to deter flying - eg Covid, 9/11, ash cloud. Rarely does finances seem to hugely (on their own) impact the ability and determination to fly. Where there is a will there is often a way. The Benidormer’s will use their fuel rebates to board that low cost flight. Transatlantic might be a different scenario though.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 10:32
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Originally Posted by nighthawk117 View Post
They just retired their 757 fleet, so they'll need to find something else to operate the route. They have a few 787s on order, but deliveries of those are currently suspended, so they'd need to chop something else to operate to Edinburgh.
787 deliveries resume this month with nine expected this year: https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/...149555.article

Most of EDI's North Atlantic demand is inbound. Weakness in Sterling versus the US and Canadian dollars may actually help demand from those markets by making trips to the UK relatively more affordable.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 11:04
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Originally Posted by tartan 201 View Post
787 deliveries resume this month with nine expected this year: https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/...149555.article

Most of EDI's North Atlantic demand is inbound. Weakness in Sterling versus the US and Canadian dollars may actually help demand from those markets by making trips to the UK relatively more affordable.
Leaving aside the extortionate cost of decent hotel accommodation in UK! In addition the USA is also suffering high inflation, comparable to that in the UK I believe. I hope I am proved wrong but I really don't see 2023 being particularly rosy.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 12:14
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Originally Posted by VickersVicount View Post
It usually takes something ‘physical’ to deter flying - eg Covid, 9/11, ash cloud. Rarely does finances seem to hugely (on their own) impact the ability and determination to fly. Where there is a will there is often a way. The Benidormer’s will use their fuel rebates to board that low cost flight. Transatlantic might be a different scenario though.
Agree. People will still fly be it for business or pleasure. With regards to American, should the aircraft be available and most importantly if they believe they can make money, the PHL route will return. The NYC market appears to be well covered by UA and DL. United via their hubs and IAD is enjoying a bumper season. PHL or CLT hubs is geographically convenient for American. If the conditions allow, like before, PHL route will be successful.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 14:07
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Emirates UK manager: “Edinburgh was a very strong route for us, particularly inbound in summer,” he said”
Suppose its the other 9 months of the year they’ll have looked at to decided what is boosted /reinstated. Perhaps S23 ?
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 14:29
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Emirates

Originally Posted by VickersVicount View Post
Emirates UK manager: “Edinburgh was a very strong route for us, particularly inbound in summer,” he said”
Suppose its the other 9 months of the year they’ll have looked at to decided what is boosted /reinstated. Perhaps S23 ?
https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/emirat...chedules-35611

Here is the article. The comments certainly suggest a resumption of EDI-Dubai service is likely. As others have estimated, based on slots request for Dubai, a 5 x weekly service could be a starting point. Perhaps increasing to daily at peak summer times which according to the article, the route previously performed very strongly. Is it too late for a resumption in 2022? Others believe it may be. I’m not so sure. A late November resumption for example would give them ample lead in time and would allow them to meet the the Xmas/NY demand.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 17:08
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With much of Asia still closed or semi-closed to BAU tourism and a whole subfleet of delayed B787-8s about to arrive en-masse from Boeing, it's not that unlikely AA will be back.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 18:21
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Originally Posted by Planeraz View Post
https://www.ttgmedia.com/news/emirat...chedules-35611

Here is the article. The comments certainly suggest a resumption of EDI-Dubai service is likely. As others have estimated, based on slots request for Dubai, a 5 x weekly service could be a starting point. Perhaps increasing to daily at peak summer times which according to the article, the route previously performed very strongly. Is it too late for a resumption in 2022? Others believe it may be. I’m not so sure. A late November resumption for example would give them ample lead in time and would allow them to meet the the Xmas/NY demand.
The article says

Services to the Scottish capital are likely to be restored, he indicated. “Edinburgh was a very strong route for us, particularly inbound in summer,” he said.
The article also implies that EDI was dropped due to Covid, says Stansted is daily - it's five weekly - and omits Newcastle from the list of destinations not yet restored to pre-covid levels, so make of it what you will.
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Old 3rd Aug 2022, 18:39
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
The article says



The article also implies that EDI was dropped due to Covid, says Stansted is daily - it's five weekly - and omits Newcastle from the list of destinations not yet restored to pre-covid levels, so make of it what you will.
STN is daily, built you are correct in that NCL is missing frequencies
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Old 4th Aug 2022, 08:00
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Originally Posted by GrahamK View Post
STN is daily, built you are correct in that NCL is missing frequencies
Apologies, mis-read the press reports - looks like STN was originally re-starting at five weekly but upped to daily
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Old 11th Aug 2022, 10:44
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Emirates S23

According to the EACC Q2 Update, Emirates is expected to resume in S23.
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