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Southampton-3

Old 21st Feb 2023, 20:08
  #1281 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GrahamK
So what happens if the runway extension gets built but no new airlines/routes come in?
​​​although additional airlines / routes are the aim for the airport,the extra length provides existing airlines to operate at full weight in challenging conditions.
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Old 21st Feb 2023, 22:20
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Originally Posted by RW20
​​​although additional airlines / routes are the aim for the airport,the extra length provides existing airlines to operate at full weight in challenging conditions.
And that pretty much is all the extension was aimed to do. The airport MD has repeatedly stated as much so all these dreams about Easy/Ryanair additional med routes etc etc are just pie in the sky. It just re-enforces the operations that are currently there and allows a less restrictive operating environment.
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Old 21st Feb 2023, 22:42
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Originally Posted by TartinTon
And that pretty much is all the extension was aimed to do. The airport MD has repeatedly stated as much so all these dreams about Easy/Ryanair additional med routes etc etc are just pie in the sky. It just re-enforces the operations that are currently there and allows a less restrictive operating environment.
You clearly have absolutely no idea on why the extension is being built and the MD has stated no such thing!
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Old 21st Feb 2023, 22:59
  #1284 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=stewyb;11389327]
Originally Posted by TCAS FAN

Yep and maybe W23 also, go on make a prediction or two and Iíll start with Orange to BFS/EDI
In the absence of access to current performance data, particularly relating to the A320, to ascertain the improved max take-off weights with the extended runway, I would have to resist speculating on new operators/destinations.

With the substantial investment that AGS are making I am sure that their business case for it included definition of potential new destinations, and thereby the additional revenue that can be generated, to ensure a return on it.
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Old 21st Feb 2023, 23:06
  #1285 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by GrahamK
So what happens if the runway extension gets built but no new airlines/routes come in?
I feel sure that the AGS business plan for the extension was far more robust than “build it and they will come”!

Last edited by TCAS FAN; 22nd Feb 2023 at 05:28.
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Old 21st Feb 2023, 23:19
  #1286 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by stewyb
You clearly have absolutely no idea on why the extension is being built and the MD has stated no such thing!
You're entitled to your opinion. Let's see who pitches up......
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 13:51
  #1287 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
Somewhat academic unless the CAA have signed off the project.
CAA held their regular board meeting at the airport yesterday so hopefully all was signed off!
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 14:44
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
I feel sure that the AGS business plan for the extension was far more robust than “build it and they will come”!
Genuine question, how many flights per day is the multi million pound runway extension at BHX needed for? I don't think Emirates needs it most of the time, so while the extension is welcome at SOU, the benefits may well be marginal in future years. I'd expect a flurry of B737/A320 operators to give it a go and see in the short term though.
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 14:59
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I'd expect a flurry of B737/A320 operators to give it a go and see in the short term though.
Ok - I'll bite, like who?

There aren't that many about - Mr O'Leary has said 'never', so they are nailed on..., EZY - large base at LGW, Wizz - possible..., TUI - currently a couple of charters a week - larger operations already at BOH and LGW, Jet2 - said to be not looking at new bases at present, don't normally dabble in 'W's' into non-bases.

After that you are down to wildcards like Volotea, Vueling, Eurowings?
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 16:09
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I wouldn't be surprised if easyJet initially tried something like a 3x weekly service in the summer from their PMI and AGP bases.
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 16:49
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If anyone tries the airport, certain it will be EZY and donít foresee the odd route here and there diluting their mammoth base of 80+ aircraft at LGW!
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 18:29
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[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;11389495]
Originally Posted by stewyb

In the absence of access to current performance data, particularly relating to the A320, to ascertain the improved max take-off weights with the extended runway, I would have to resist speculating on new operators/destinations.

With the substantial investment that AGS are making I am sure that their business case for it included definition of potential new destinations, and thereby the additional revenue that can be generated, to ensure a return on it.
TCAS FAN

Lets hope the airport attracts additional / higher capacity with airbus type aircraft to Sun routes,I dont see domestic routes upgrading to this size of aircraft due to limited PAX demand
I received this email today from airport managemrnt"
Timescales for the project are as follows:

20th Jan - 3rd Apr - Enabling work, incl. set up of site compound
3rd Apr - 17th Aug - Main construction works"

Thanks
Mike
Southampton Airport
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Old 23rd Feb 2023, 19:30
  #1293 (permalink)  
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[QUOTE=RW20;11390545]
Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
TCAS FAN

Lets hope the airport attracts additional / higher capacity with airbus type aircraft to Sun routes,I dont see domestic routes upgrading to this size of aircraft due to limited PAX demand
I received this email today from airport managemrnt"
Timescales for the project are as follows:

20th Jan - 3rd Apr - Enabling work, incl. set up of site compound
3rd Apr - 17th Aug - Main construction works"

Thanks
Mike
Southampton Airport
So my timescales have been correct from the very beginning
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Old 24th Feb 2023, 03:41
  #1294 (permalink)  
 
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Why did Air Berlin pull out and go to Bournemouth? Were they fed up of being terrified trying to operate off an aircraft carrier?
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Old 24th Feb 2023, 06:03
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Originally Posted by 055166k
Why did Air Berlin pull out and go to Bournemouth? Were they fed up of being terrified trying to operate off an aircraft carrier?
You have obviously posed two questions there with two sentences and the use of two "question marks".

Strange question to ask though, "were they fed up of being terrified trying to operate off an aircraft carrier"?

Really🤔

To answer that childish question. Yes, that was the official statement from Air Berlin at the time, exact words as well.

Getting to the real question you posed.

Air Berlin were using a Boeing 737-800 on the Paderborn route. The Boeing 737-800 is not an ideal aircraft for the current runway at Southampton and this won't change even with the very short 164m extension.

Air Berlin obviously realised this and therefore eventually moved to Bournemouth. The flight to Paderborn did not remain at Bournemouth for long as it was cancelled within four months of moving from Southampton.

Air Berlin from Paderborn actually flew to Southampton for just under a year before it moved to Bournemouth.

Air Berlin opened up Paderborn to Southampton as the British Army had a major base in the German city which had close connections to the British army base's in Hampshire and Wiltshire.

Not long after Air Berlin commenced Paderborn to Southampton it was announced that the British army would be leaving the Paderborn area. After that announcement along with less than expected passenger figures it was fairly obvious that the market for the flight was limited hence why it was finally cancelled.
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Old 24th Feb 2023, 08:47
  #1296 (permalink)  
 
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TUI Airways does not fly its own holidays charters from SOU -

For the past 2 years they have bought seats on BACF's scheduled Palma flights and in 2022, and for 2023 actually charter their own aircraft.

2 a week for Palma using BACF 98 seat EMB190's.

A sensible load to sell - and they still offer holidays on the BA scheduled Palma flights as well (3 a week) if they fill their own up.


Future routes - ?

We know it will always be an 'Airbus airline' should any Leisure routes attract an airline wishing to dip their toe in at SOU.


Jet2 (and Jet2 Holidays) are getting new A320N's, but they do not do any 'W' pattern flying from their UK Bases.

So it would be a huge gamble for them to make a new year round Base at SOU.

Winter flights are always popular to the Canary Islands and Madeira, so of course the performance/payload issues could restrict a SOU operation, until we know more later.


However Jet2 Holidays is a very strong brand and would scare the s*** out of TUI at BOH if they did come to SOU.


TUI did really well with its own Base at DSA Doncaster - but it was only them that used the Airport, and all was very seasonal.


Other routes needed back
are AF CDG and LH FRA, plus an EI DUB service that actually connects with their USA/Canada flights interlining at DUB

Liverpool would be great, it's a ghastly long drive, or an all day train ride.


BACF dropped Florence, Nice, and Berlin before they even started - I think those, plus Venice, Munich, and Barcelona are great routes with the right size a/c.
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Old 24th Feb 2023, 09:58
  #1297 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=RW20;11390545]
Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
TCAS FAN

Lets hope the airport attracts additional / higher capacity with airbus type aircraft to Sun routes,I dont see domestic routes upgrading to this size of aircraft due to limited PAX demand
I received this email today from airport managemrnt"
Timescales for the project are as follows:

20th Jan - 3rd Apr - Enabling work, incl. set up of site compound
3rd Apr - 17th Aug - Main construction works"

Thanks
Mike
Southampton Airport
As yet the Minutes from the 3 February Consultative Committee meeting have not appeared on the EBC website, maybe later today?. When they do it is expected that the Airport Ops Director's Report will include the amended work schedule.

The "Draft Schedule" presented at the 7 October meeting indicated that the main construction (ie including what CAA had to sign off) was scheduled 1 March-25 July with the "Runway go live" on 1 August.

We can only speculate that the slightly delayed schedule now indicated could have been caused by the wait for the CAA sign off.

The recent post about CAA Board holding their recent meeting at SOU is indeed encouraging. That said, I have today seen the next batch of AIP Supplements that become effective on 9 March. Nothing there relating to the runway extension project. Again, another possible indication that CAA project approval may have been delayed.

IMHO the delay with publication of the AIP Supplement shouldn't further delay the kick off. The 3 April start could initially be covered by a NOTAM which could then be superseded by a Supplement, which should appear on the NATS website during the last week of March to become effective from 6 April.

Hopefully we are almost there, maybe the new SOU construction App will announce the CAA project sign off?

Last edited by TCAS FAN; 24th Feb 2023 at 12:47. Reason: spelling
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Old 24th Feb 2023, 10:26
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Air Berlin obviously realised this and therefore eventually moved to Bournemouth. The flight to Paderborn did not remain at Bournemouth for long as it was cancelled within four months of moving from Southampton..
While I'm not sure why this has been brought up more than 15 years later, I feel obliged to correct the post.

The Paderborn flight operated from Bournemouth from December 2005 until October 2007 which I make 23 months or rather more than 4 months! While winter loads were not great, July to October consistently saw over 3,000 passengers per month on the 3 days a week service.
July 06 - October 06 13,825
July 07 - October 07 13,975

The highest monthly passenger numbers were in July 2007 with 3,921 or around 150 per flight based on 26 flights in the month. In fact the last 4 months of the service saw some of the highest loads - possibly connected with the troop withdrawal?

LT
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Old 24th Feb 2023, 10:44
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Re: plus an EI DUB service that actually connects with their USA/Canada flights interlining at DUB

checking the Aer Lingus website would seem to indicate many of the USA and Canada flights are bookable as a through connection via Dublin.
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Old 24th Feb 2023, 11:16
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Originally Posted by rog747
TUI Airways does not fly its own holidays charters from SOU -

For the past 2 years they have bought seats on BACF's scheduled Palma flights and in 2022, and for 2023 actually charter their own aircraft.

2 a week for Palma using BACF 98 seat EMB190's.

A sensible load to sell - and they still offer holidays on the BA scheduled Palma flights as well (3 a week) if they fill their own up.


Future routes - ?

We know it will always be an 'Airbus airline' should any Leisure routes attract an airline wishing to dip their toe in at SOU.


Jet2 (and Jet2 Holidays) are getting new A320N's, but they do not do any 'W' pattern flying from their UK Bases.

So it would be a huge gamble for them to make a new year round Base at SOU.

Winter flights are always popular to the Canary Islands and Madeira, so of course the performance/payload issues could restrict a SOU operation, until we know more later.


However Jet2 Holidays is a very strong brand and would scare the s*** out of TUI at BOH if they did come to SOU.


TUI did really well with its own Base at DSA Doncaster - but it was only them that used the Airport, and all was very seasonal.


Other routes needed back
are AF CDG and LH FRA, plus an EI DUB service that actually connects with their USA/Canada flights interlining at DUB

Liverpool would be great, it's a ghastly long drive, or an all day train ride.


BACF dropped Florence, Nice, and Berlin before they even started - I think those, plus Venice, Munich, and Barcelona are great routes with the right size a/c.
I used to fly from Liverpool to Southampton quite often, it was a very convenient and popular link. Would be good to see it back, as you say surface transport is slow.
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