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Southampton-3

Old 11th Jan 2023, 16:15
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Are there any examples where EZY operate this level of non-based flying?
Their has been a lot of hopeful talk about post runway extension destinations and especially EZY operations.The reality however is that 2023/24 is going to be tough for Southampton, the extended runway only allows for sustainable payloads to limited destinations in the Med,and with limited types i.e. Airbus 320but significantly not present Boing aircraft types i.e 737-800,a staple airline plane!.
Before the Pandamic and current financial crisis Southampton would have boomed with the extentsion,but it is a different ball game now.
Its going to be an interesting next couple of years,SOU needs to increase revenue by extra pax etc to break even,lets hope it achieves this.
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Old 11th Jan 2023, 16:39
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
Are there any examples where EZY operate this level of non-based flying?
BHX springs to mind immediately and believe my example is the most realistic option at this present time whereby a LCC is not committing to a base and SOU can deliver growth. Letís hope something happens!
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Old 11th Jan 2023, 19:37
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easyJet

Originally Posted by inOban
How many pax do EZY bring through BHX? No based aircraft but an increasing number of routes.
I haven't got a passenger figure for easyjet at BHX as some of the routes are shared and to calculate the seats would take a while as it is a very fluid schedule depending the time of year with some seasonal routes starting in June/July and some routes reducing in peak summer such as Amsterdam.

To give you an idea the first week in April sees 74 flights per week over 6 destinations with a maximum of 13 flights (Friday) and minimum 9 (Saturday) with one a two variations until the last week in June when their are 10 routes but then a dip in peak season to 65 flights per week as Amsterdam drops from 14 per week to 4 but Nantes starts making 11 routes in total but all that changes in September with 78 flights per week and back to 10 routes (15 flights on a Monday).

Obviously Southampton would never get 5 Belfast a day (not even sure if BHX will as things change regularly) but the destinations are Amsterdam, Belfast Int, Edinburgh, Faro, Geneva, Glasgow, Lisbon, Milan MXP, Nantes & Palma. Malaga remains in the APP but not in the main website but gives you idea what can be achieved without a base.

Pete
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Old 11th Jan 2023, 20:25
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Originally Posted by OltonPete
I haven't got a passenger figure for easyjet at BHX as some of the routes are shared and to calculate the seats would take a while as it is a very fluid schedule depending the time of year with some seasonal routes starting in June/July and some routes reducing in peak summer such as Amsterdam.

To give you an idea the first week in April sees 74 flights per week over 6 destinations with a maximum of 13 flights (Friday) and minimum 9 (Saturday) with one a two variations until the last week in June when their are 10 routes but then a dip in peak season to 65 flights per week as Amsterdam drops from 14 per week to 4 but Nantes starts making 11 routes in total but all that changes in September with 78 flights per week and back to 10 routes (15 flights on a Monday).

Obviously Southampton would never get 5 Belfast a day (not even sure if BHX will as things change regularly) but the destinations are Amsterdam, Belfast Int, Edinburgh, Faro, Geneva, Glasgow, Lisbon, Milan MXP, Nantes & Palma. Malaga remains in the APP but not in the main website but gives you idea what can be achieved without a base.

Pete
Interesting thanks Pete, think this model would work well for SOU in order to attract a LCC without a base expense/commitment whilst developing the growth plans projected for the airport
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 04:52
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Flybe announced summer 2023 yesterday, but SOU didn't get a mention

Only 2023 route seems to be BHD Belfast City just once daily at lunchtimes - (Not operating until 22 February 2023)

Toulon and Avignon flown last summer are not listed as flying (yet >? Fly Maybe lol)
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 08:42
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Originally Posted by rog747
Flybe announced summer 2023 yesterday, but SOU didn't get a mention

Only 2023 route seems to be BHD Belfast City just once daily at lunchtimes - (Not operating until 22 February 2023)

Toulon and Avignon flown last summer are not listed as flying (yet >? Fly Maybe lol)
Not a big loss to the airport and instead dodged a bullet!
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 09:33
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Maybe the airline knows SOU would be a loss making airport for them otherwise they would be keen to return.
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 11:50
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Originally Posted by Pain in the R's
Maybe the airline knows SOU would be a loss making airport for them otherwise they would be keen to return.
The potential market now for the 'new flybe' is very different to that experienced by the 'old flybe' a few years ago. General out and back in the day business travel has reduced significantly as so many people are now working from home and use zoom etc. For many colleagues, it's no longer a realistic option to meet-up as without an office base, it would entail meeting other colleagues at their homes - not something everyone would want.

Where such business still exists, this is now ell catered for by other operators. Having this distributed amongst Aer Lingus Regional, Loganair, Blues Islands, Aurigney, Eastern and KLM is a much healthier situation for SOU than the 'all the eggs in one basket' situation with the original flybe of a few years. I'm sure flybe will keep the situation under review, but at a small airport like Southampton there is only a certain amount of business to be had and this is being well-served (albeit with high fares) at the moment. I think when the economy improves the present operators, and maybe flybe too, will introduce a few new routes and increased frequencies to existing destinations. I think the runway extension will bring results too, probably not with a based operator to start with, but I would be very surprised if we don't see I nice small portfolio of leisure/city break routes developing over the next few years, using aircraft from other bases. I still think the longer-term for SOU is bright!
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 13:32
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Originally Posted by rog747
Flybe announced summer 2023 yesterday, but SOU didn't get a mention

Only 2023 route seems to be BHD Belfast City just once daily at lunchtimes - (Not operating until 22 February 2023)

Toulon and Avignon flown last summer are not listed as flying (yet >? Fly Maybe lol)
Their obsession with BHD is very very odd considering Emerald with the backing of Aer Lingus are already established. The domestic routes at SOU should have been one of their main focuses with the awful Eastern and uneconomical jets being flown by Logan. Flybe are still missed by a lot of people locally but I echo what another poster has said that them returning would be counter productive for SOU. Maybe SOU have been giving them the hard shoulder. Letís all wait and see when the runway is done. Anyone know the progress with the works?
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 13:54
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Iím struggling to find any actual timeline for the runway extension. Maybe Iím blind, but is there an expected date for works to be finished other than ď2023Ē?
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 14:02
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Originally Posted by USERNAME_
Iím struggling to find any actual timeline for the runway extension. Maybe Iím blind, but is there an expected date for works to be finished other than ď2023Ē?
Groundworks have been on going during December to relocate a sewage pipe. Prep starting very shortly on actual extension with first spades in the ground at the start of April and runway to be complete by mid August
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 14:58
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Originally Posted by stewyb
Groundworks have been on going during December to relocate a sewage pipe. Prep starting very shortly on actual extension with first spades in the ground at the start of April and runway to be complete by mid August
sounds promising. Any idea if they are going to put in the northern taxi link at the same time? Would make sense surely whilst the equipment is there.
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 15:03
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Originally Posted by Rivet Joint
sounds promising. Any idea if they are going to put in the northern taxi link at the same time? Would make sense surely whilst the equipment is there.
not that I am aware of although stands 1-5 being reconfigured to x 4 A320 size
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Old 12th Jan 2023, 15:10
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Originally Posted by USERNAME_
Iím struggling to find any actual timeline for the runway extension. Maybe Iím blind, but is there an expected date for works to be finished other than ď2023Ē?
The serious construction work has to be "notified" (to use the legal term) via a NOTAM or AIP Supplement. As the project will apparently exceed the maximum life span of a NOTAM (three months) and the extent of impact on continued runway operation, the most likely way will be an AIP Supplement (my post 1015 refers).

Supplements are published on a 28 day (AIRAC) cycle. The current batch of Supplements are effective today (12 January), with no mention of runway works. Next batch of Supplements effective 23 Feb and should on the AIS website

https://nats-uk.ead-it.com/cms-nats/...p-supplements/

about a week before. If there is to be a 1 April start on serious construction work either 23 Feb or 23 March should contain a relevant Supplement. That said, I doubt that AGS will miss the PR opportunity to hail the pending start of work. As mentioned in a previous post of mine, would be a nice touch, to show that there are no continued bad feelings, for the Bournemouth Airport Director to be invited to symbolically break the first ground!
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Old 13th Jan 2023, 08:16
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he wouldn't come - he'd suspect he was inked in for a pagan sacrifice..................
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Old 13th Jan 2023, 08:49
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Originally Posted by Rivet Joint
Their obsession with BHD is very very odd considering Emerald with the backing of Aer Lingus are already established. The domestic routes at SOU should have been one of their main focuses with the awful Eastern and uneconomical jets being flown by Logan.
I imagine their research/market intelligence/etc suggested that BHD/Belfast has more potential than many other airports. There is less competition from road/rail from Belfast and for day trips/overnight stays a road/rail/sail combination is thoroughly impractical. From that point of view it makes sense. I don't think flyBe banked on Emerald getting their launch together a year early, getting a UK AOC and building a reliable operation as quickly as they did. The continued operation of many of the Stobart Routes by EI mainline and BA CityFlyer probably helped Emerald and closed off opportunity for flyBe 2 as well. Now, Im not sure how much market research they really did. The route network is visibly incoherent and operationally fragile. Why fight at AMS with easyJet, KLM and BA?

flyBe were never afraid to throw good money after bad in Pyrrhic battles. They shot themselves in the foot with poor timings, lower frequency than Emerald and much worse reliability.
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Old 13th Jan 2023, 14:13
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Originally Posted by stewyb
not that I am aware of although stands 1-5 being reconfigured to x 4 A320 size
Interesting! All shaping up well for the move to bigger aircraft. Hopefully the taxiway will appear as I feel it would be a big oversight if not. Backtracking already adds a few minutes to departures so with the longer runway itís going to be even more of a hindrance.
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Old 13th Jan 2023, 14:16
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Originally Posted by brian_dromey
I imagine their research/market intelligence/etc suggested that BHD/Belfast has more potential than many other airports. There is less competition from road/rail from Belfast and for day trips/overnight stays a road/rail/sail combination is thoroughly impractical. From that point of view it makes sense. I don't think flyBe banked on Emerald getting their launch together a year early, getting a UK AOC and building a reliable operation as quickly as they did. The continued operation of many of the Stobart Routes by EI mainline and BA CityFlyer probably helped Emerald and closed off opportunity for flyBe 2 as well. Now, Im not sure how much market research they really did. The route network is visibly incoherent and operationally fragile. Why fight at AMS with easyJet, KLM and BA?

flyBe were never afraid to throw good money after bad in Pyrrhic battles. They shot themselves in the foot with poor timings, lower frequency than Emerald and much worse reliability.
You would like to think they did their research but the old BE was focused on aggressive tactics against opposition so perhaps they just donít learn their lesson. The move into jets and the disaster that was the battle in the highlands against LM springs to mind. Itís odd as they very much have a place in the industry and should focus on their own business rather than going on the attack. They wonít win against Emerald at Belfast and certainly not at Heathrow against BA/KLM.
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Old 13th Jan 2023, 16:21
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Originally Posted by Rivet Joint
Interesting! All shaping up well for the move to bigger aircraft. Hopefully the taxiway will appear as I feel it would be a big oversight if not. Backtracking already adds a few minutes to departures so with the longer runway itís going to be even more of a hindrance.
Agree totally, as mentioned in an earlier post of mine, backtracking from TWY B could be a PIA. With another 164 metres added if SOU gets back to previous traffic levels runway capacity will significantly drop either by a need for increased gaps between successive arrivals to accommodate backtracks, or the log jam at Hold B1 preventing pushbacks from multiple adjacent Stands. Are we going to see a repeat of the previous missed opportunity (when runway was resurfaced) to add the TWY A missing link at the northern end?
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Old 13th Jan 2023, 18:22
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Originally Posted by TCAS FAN
Agree totally, as mentioned in an earlier post of mine, backtracking from TWY B could be a PIA. With another 164 metres added if SOU gets back to previous traffic levels runway capacity will significantly drop either by a need for increased gaps between successive arrivals to accommodate backtracks, or the log jam at Hold B1 preventing pushbacks from multiple adjacent Stands. Are we going to see a repeat of the previous missed opportunity (when runway was resurfaced) to add the TWY A missing link at the northern end?
As I mentioned previous, it seems from the latest S106 that no additional planning is required for this taxiway and therefore it would surely be remiss not to add a bit more tarmac out from stand 14 to runway with equipment already being on site

Last edited by SKOJB; 13th Jan 2023 at 19:11.
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