EasyJet-6
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Originally Posted by Jonty
jet2 is doing that as well.
The difference is that Jet2 is controlled by a top executive, chairman Philip Meeson, who not only started off life buying third-hand Handley Page Heralds, but sees his prime goal as sustaining a good business. Easyjet's chairman is a longstanding banker. Easyjet has fallen into the hands of stock market analysts who only look at the next quarter's earnings and stock price in spreadsheets, and don't know one end of an aircraft from the other.
The operations side has fallen out of sync with the sales side, who have demanded bookings and schedules they do not have the resources to operate, whether own staff or contracted in. By now they could have rejigged schedules, not on the day but several weeks/months out, to fit what they have. But the sales would get hit. It's up to the Ops Director to only offer what they can do, not be strongarmed by the sales team.
It's very difficult being the bargain basement LCC operator, when that business plan is based on bottom tier wages, at a time of significant labour shortages. The management just don't have the aptitude to stop their staff being poached by more pleasant (in all aspects) rivals.
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This idiot won't have helped today's schedule:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-62036779
Hopefully he is languishing in a un air conditioned Menorcan cell.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-62036779
Hopefully he is languishing in a un air conditioned Menorcan cell.
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Is it really necessary for every thread on PPRuNe to be taken over by the same 3-4 Jet2 fanboys/employees telling us how wonderful and innovative Jet2 are at every opportunity?
This is the easyJet thread. Recent discussion is about Peter Bellew resigning. Nobody mentioned Jet2 and this discussion is nothing to do with Jet2.
This is the easyJet thread. Recent discussion is about Peter Bellew resigning. Nobody mentioned Jet2 and this discussion is nothing to do with Jet2.
Last edited by Vokes55; 5th Jul 2022 at 00:31.
If you give a class of schoolkids a written test, and almost all the kids can't answer a specific question, then the question is too hard. Equally, if all the kids can answer a question, then the question is too simple.
If half the kids can answer a specific question, and the other kids cannot, then you have found a way to see which kids was paying attention in class or worked hard at homework... and which kids spent too much time doodling and watching TV.
The kids with bad grades will inevitably be compared to the kids with good grades. The kid with bad grades can expect (well meaning) parents and teachers to be asking why it's gone wrong. People don't just shrug their shoulders and accept a kid is destined for failure - they prefer to know why... eg maybe kid has poor eyesight and needs a visit to optician
When one airline has an extended operational meltdown and a similiar one does not... it's absolutely valid to compare and ask why there is a difference... even if the kid with bad grades prefers not to have that conversation - eg kid hates the idea of being called "four eyes" in playground for wearing glasses
I want to see Easyjet back to its old highly competent and effective existence
If half the kids can answer a specific question, and the other kids cannot, then you have found a way to see which kids was paying attention in class or worked hard at homework... and which kids spent too much time doodling and watching TV.
The kids with bad grades will inevitably be compared to the kids with good grades. The kid with bad grades can expect (well meaning) parents and teachers to be asking why it's gone wrong. People don't just shrug their shoulders and accept a kid is destined for failure - they prefer to know why... eg maybe kid has poor eyesight and needs a visit to optician
When one airline has an extended operational meltdown and a similiar one does not... it's absolutely valid to compare and ask why there is a difference... even if the kid with bad grades prefers not to have that conversation - eg kid hates the idea of being called "four eyes" in playground for wearing glasses
I want to see Easyjet back to its old highly competent and effective existence
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Originally Posted by Vokes55
Is it really necessary for every thread on PPRuNe to be taken over by the same 3-4 Jet2 fanboys/employees telling us how wonderful and innovative Jet2 are at every opportunity?
This is the easyJet thread. Recent discussion is about Peter Bellew resigning. Nobody mentioned Jet2 and this discussion is nothing to do with Jet2.
This is the easyJet thread. Recent discussion is about Peter Bellew resigning. Nobody mentioned Jet2 and this discussion is nothing to do with Jet2.
For the sake of accuracy, Peter Bellew departing is connected with a very poor current operational record, and poorly handled on the day, which is not reflected in the extent to which certain other comparable operators of comparable aircraft on the same routes in the same market are experiencing.
Originally Posted by WHBM
[Operating more flights than pre-Covid]
The difference is that Jet2 is controlled by a top executive, chairman Philip Meeson, who not only started off life buying third-hand Handley Page Heralds, but sees his prime goal as sustaining a good business. Easyjet's chairman is a longstanding banker. Easyjet has fallen into the hands of stock market analysts who only look at the next quarter's earnings and stock price in spreadsheets, and don't know one end of an aircraft from the other.
The operations side has fallen out of sync with the sales side, who have demanded bookings and schedules they do not have the resources to operate, whether own staff or contracted in. By now they could have rejigged schedules, not on the day but several weeks/months out, to fit what they have. But the sales would get hit. It's up to the Ops Director to only offer what they can do, not be strongarmed by the sales team.
It's very difficult being the bargain basement LCC operator, when that business plan is based on bottom tier wages, at a time of significant labour shortages. The management just don't have the aptitude to stop their staff being poached by more pleasant (in all aspects) rivals.
The difference is that Jet2 is controlled by a top executive, chairman Philip Meeson, who not only started off life buying third-hand Handley Page Heralds, but sees his prime goal as sustaining a good business. Easyjet's chairman is a longstanding banker. Easyjet has fallen into the hands of stock market analysts who only look at the next quarter's earnings and stock price in spreadsheets, and don't know one end of an aircraft from the other.
The operations side has fallen out of sync with the sales side, who have demanded bookings and schedules they do not have the resources to operate, whether own staff or contracted in. By now they could have rejigged schedules, not on the day but several weeks/months out, to fit what they have. But the sales would get hit. It's up to the Ops Director to only offer what they can do, not be strongarmed by the sales team.
It's very difficult being the bargain basement LCC operator, when that business plan is based on bottom tier wages, at a time of significant labour shortages. The management just don't have the aptitude to stop their staff being poached by more pleasant (in all aspects) rivals.
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There is also the fact that Jet2 and easyJet currently have fundamentally different business models. Jet2 is essentially a UK-based holiday company (where they can hide costs in creating a higher margin through packages), and easyJet which is pan-European, which has toes in both a regional and holiday market.
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I am not sure how you think a company can ‘hide’ costs - the top line and bottom line is the same whatever company you are in. Sure there can be creative accounting but J2 are listed too and have to be pretty transparent. Simple fact seems to be that customers like their product, they seem operationally pretty sound (very few cancellations) and their service is rated. It seems more joined up from the top line sales part to the operational execution.
U2 (inevitably) is no longer a ‘pioneer’ and is now becoming ‘legacy’ with the costs and mindset that goes with that imho. Their current leadership does not inspire confidence.
btw - Jet2 started as a seat only business and identified an IT tours gap - something U2 is trying to tap into poaching several TUI execs. They’ll need to learn quickly tho that to be successful at this you have to actually get people to their destination without a whole load of stress!
U2 (inevitably) is no longer a ‘pioneer’ and is now becoming ‘legacy’ with the costs and mindset that goes with that imho. Their current leadership does not inspire confidence.
btw - Jet2 started as a seat only business and identified an IT tours gap - something U2 is trying to tap into poaching several TUI execs. They’ll need to learn quickly tho that to be successful at this you have to actually get people to their destination without a whole load of stress!
Last edited by TOM100; 5th Jul 2022 at 14:43.
Originally Posted by toledoashley
There is also the fact that Jet2 and easyJet currently have fundamentally different business models. Jet2 is essentially a UK-based holiday company (where they can hide costs in creating a higher margin through packages), and easyJet which is pan-European, which has toes in both a regional and holiday market.
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Originally Posted by TOM100
I am not sure how you think a company can ‘hide’ costs - the top line and bottom line is the same whatever company you are in. Sure there can be creative accounting but J2 are listed too and have to be pretty transparent. Simple fact seems to be that customers like their product, they seem operationally pretty sound (very few cancellations) and their service is rated. It seems more joined up from the top line sales part to the operational execution.
U2 (inevitably) is no longer a ‘pioneer’ and is now becoming ‘legacy’ with the costs and mindset that goes with that imho. Their current leadership does not inspire confidence.
U2 (inevitably) is no longer a ‘pioneer’ and is now becoming ‘legacy’ with the costs and mindset that goes with that imho. Their current leadership does not inspire confidence.
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Just like I have been peremptorily told above that "this discussion is not about x", it's likewise not about whether you have other aspects of the business. The compared operations are all significant airlines, many bases the same, serving the same airport pairs, with crewing, handling agents, fuel price inflation, etc, all the current issues, and yet their day-to-day operating issues and customer experiences are turning out very different.
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EasyJet's current struggles are fundamentally down to it's business strategy. Prior covid, they aligned themselves a competitor to the legacy carriers, taking advantage of number one or two network positions at primary, slot constrained airports. A strategy no doubt born out of the fact they had a good presence here already and could no longer compete with the likes of Ryanair and Wizz on cost. I'm not knocking them for that, it's a strategy that's worked well for them over the years.
Covid has shifted the sands in a way nobody ever thought possible, and yes, slot rules have given a great deal of protection. However, government bailouts to home carriers and the opportunities taken by other airlines to get into slot constrained airports, even prior to Covid, will make EasyJet have to rethink the way it grows in future. I think EasyJet Holidays came about from that realisation to some extent.
With that comes the network shift. Key long established markets like Berlin, where EasyJet have struggled to maintain market share, the closure of three UK bases and reductions in regional Italian airports. I do wonder what the future network strategy will be, and whether it is more bucket and spade, as competitors return traffic at a greater rate. I personally do not see EasyJet as having a long term future without some sort of acquistion or consolidation somewhere along the line, but I do wish them and their people well through what are still extraordinary times.
Covid has shifted the sands in a way nobody ever thought possible, and yes, slot rules have given a great deal of protection. However, government bailouts to home carriers and the opportunities taken by other airlines to get into slot constrained airports, even prior to Covid, will make EasyJet have to rethink the way it grows in future. I think EasyJet Holidays came about from that realisation to some extent.
With that comes the network shift. Key long established markets like Berlin, where EasyJet have struggled to maintain market share, the closure of three UK bases and reductions in regional Italian airports. I do wonder what the future network strategy will be, and whether it is more bucket and spade, as competitors return traffic at a greater rate. I personally do not see EasyJet as having a long term future without some sort of acquistion or consolidation somewhere along the line, but I do wish them and their people well through what are still extraordinary times.
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I am SLF with more than a passing interest in the aviation business, hence my presence here
I think the comparison between EZY and LS is highly relevant and cannot be batted away like an annoying wasp just because it doesn't fit an individual's narrative
I, like millions of others who fly, whether regularly or just once a year, don't give a flying fig about boardroom politics, management styles, operational differences and how costs are allocated, hidden or written off.
For me and millions of other passengers, they are on the outside, similar airlines flying from similar UK airports to similar destinations across Europe.
We care about both airlines getting us there safely and ideally on time, at a good price (pricing points are obviously individual to all), being treated like human beings and having problems resolved to the best of everyone's abilities on the day when things go wrong.
I have taken 3 return Jet2 flights this year (2 from LBA, 1 from BHX) without any issues at all apart from a 1 hour delay BHX-EFL, with great service in the ground and in the air
I have taken 3 flights with EasyJet this year (2 from MAN and 1 from BHX) all of which were rescheduled at inconvenience to myself, then delayed and in one instance, cancelled on the day (MAN-BER) leaving me high and dry
For me an millions of others, the proof of the pudding is what happens on the day, not how they cannot be compared because of backroom differences.
For me it's definitely Jet2 1: EasyJet 0
I think the comparison between EZY and LS is highly relevant and cannot be batted away like an annoying wasp just because it doesn't fit an individual's narrative
I, like millions of others who fly, whether regularly or just once a year, don't give a flying fig about boardroom politics, management styles, operational differences and how costs are allocated, hidden or written off.
For me and millions of other passengers, they are on the outside, similar airlines flying from similar UK airports to similar destinations across Europe.
We care about both airlines getting us there safely and ideally on time, at a good price (pricing points are obviously individual to all), being treated like human beings and having problems resolved to the best of everyone's abilities on the day when things go wrong.
I have taken 3 return Jet2 flights this year (2 from LBA, 1 from BHX) without any issues at all apart from a 1 hour delay BHX-EFL, with great service in the ground and in the air
I have taken 3 flights with EasyJet this year (2 from MAN and 1 from BHX) all of which were rescheduled at inconvenience to myself, then delayed and in one instance, cancelled on the day (MAN-BER) leaving me high and dry
For me an millions of others, the proof of the pudding is what happens on the day, not how they cannot be compared because of backroom differences.
For me it's definitely Jet2 1: EasyJet 0
Originally Posted by GayFriendly
I, like millions of others who fly, whether regularly or just once a year, don't give a flying fig about boardroom politics, management styles, operational differences
Originally Posted by GayFriendly
We care about both airlines getting us there safely and ideally on time
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Are you suggesting that those two sets of considerations have no bearing on each other ?
By the way if my next 3 flights with Jet2 are equally or more than shabby as my last 3 with EasyJet I'll be calling Jet2 out too!!
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The media accounts of Easy mishandling of booked passengers with last-minute cancellations are just multiplying
easyJet reported after families left to sleep on airport floor due to cancelled flights (msn.com)
In truth, from other accounts they do not sound the worst - accounts of how Wizz are just leaving people high and dry, even when seated in the aircraft for departure, come in even more as "couldn't care less".
Like the Consumers Association in the linked article, one wonders just when the CAA will wake up to their oversight responsibilities.
easyJet reported after families left to sleep on airport floor due to cancelled flights (msn.com)
In truth, from other accounts they do not sound the worst - accounts of how Wizz are just leaving people high and dry, even when seated in the aircraft for departure, come in even more as "couldn't care less".
Like the Consumers Association in the linked article, one wonders just when the CAA will wake up to their oversight responsibilities.
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13 new Routes from Lisbon (all begin from end of october)
Barcelona
Bergamo
Bilbao
Birmingham
Fuerteventura
Gran Canaria
Limoges
Marrakesh
Marseille
Tenerife South
Toulouse
Valencia
Zurich
Barcelona
Bergamo
Bilbao
Birmingham
Fuerteventura
Gran Canaria
Limoges
Marrakesh
Marseille
Tenerife South
Toulouse
Valencia
Zurich
