Teesside-2

[Grumpy1]

MME = Middlesbrough Municipal Airport. But MMA already in use so MME. Unrelated to Middleton St.George

[jensdad]

Originally Posted by Grumpy1

MME = Middlesbrough Municipal Airport. But MMA already in use so MME. Unrelated to Middleton St.George

I'm not sure where you got that from, but it sounds like a bit of retro-fit history to me? One or possibly both of the 'M's might have been related to the presence of Middlesbrough as the best-known town in Teesside, but the airfield has never been called Middlesbrough Municipal Airport.

[Grumpy1]

The history books say that the Middlesbrough Municipal name was dropped and the Tees-side (note the dash) name was adopted prior to opening.

[Harold77]

CAA December figures released today.

Aircraft Movements 1,333
Terminal Passengers 10,992

2022 Calendar Year Total
Aircraft Movements 20,319
Terminal Passengers 173,006

[mmeteesside]

Great to see the number of cargo flights steadily increasing too. 4 in the last week, with another scheduled tomorrow, mostly Metroliners but today’s was an Antonov An-26! Assume they’re all ‘just-in-time’ parts transfers for vehicle manufacturers (Nissan mostly, I guess!)

[N707ZS]

Nissan will eventually catch up with supply and the flights will dry up, they always have. The airport needs to find a full time cargo operation.

[SWBKCB]

The well publicised freight flights at the end of last year didn't make it in to the CAA stats

[highwideandugly]

Think most airports are looking for a full time freight/cargo operation..not sure why here is any different?

Bag of fag packet maths says average of 177 passengers per day departed the airport during December.
Seems a very long way off breaking even and or making a profit?

[Harold77]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

The well publicised freight flights at the end of last year didn't make it in to the CAA stats

Think CAA only count freight when aircraft is over a certain weight.
Also CAA don't count traffic carried on Air Taxis, which I think these flights are operating as.

The Teesside Airport Movements website on the monthly stats page has cargo weights listed.

[ZULUBOY]

Originally Posted by highwideandugly

Think most airports are looking for a full time freight/cargo operation..not sure why here is any different?

Bag of fag packet maths says average of 177 passengers per day departed the airport during December.
Seems a very long way off breaking even and or making a profit?

As a curious observer I cannot see how it is feasible to sustain this

[SWBKCB]

Originally Posted by ZULUBOY

As a curious observer I cannot see how it is feasible to sustain this

Are you assuming that the airport can only by sustained by passengers and freight? Think of it as an industrial estate/business park with a runway in the middleserving some aviation content and you'll be closer to the mark.

[Atlantic Explorer]

Originally Posted by ZULUBOY

As a curious observer I cannot see how it is feasible to sustain this

You’re forgetting about the Mayors endless blank cheque book. Although word has it that it’s getting a trifle thin.

[onion]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

Are you assuming that the airport can only by sustained by passengers and freight? Think of it as an industrial estate/business park with a runway in the middleserving some aviation content and you'll be closer to the mark.

That, plus Draken (Honey Badgers and Falcons), plus the clubs/schools, 2Excel, Calibrators, Medical flights and much more.
There are too many who just concentrate on pax flights.

[ZULUBOY]

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

Are you assuming that the airport can only by sustained by passengers and freight? Think of it as an industrial estate/business park with a runway in the middleserving some aviation content and you'll be closer to the mark.

Sure but doesn't it have to pay for Air Traffic Control and the fire service? They can't be cheap. I don't know if these are 24 hour cover

[SWBKCB]

Originally Posted by onion

That, plus Draken (Honey Badgers and Falcons), plus the clubs/schools, 2Excel, Calibrators, Medical flights and much more.
There are too many who just concentrate on pax flights.

Does anybody actually call them 'Honey Badgers'?

The point I was making is that you can't judge the feasibility of these small regional airports by the number of passengers going through the terminal. The runway, ATC, fire etc, facilitate lots of other businesses as well, which create wealth, jobs for the region.

There is nothing wrong with the strategy of investing in the airport to get it to the point where it is self-sustaining, but it is arguable whether the right investments have been made so far (and I really hope the railway halt isn't next!)

[highwideandugly]

It’s all down to yearly contract prices then ?

Passenger flights alone would not provide enough revenue to keep the airport going.

However annual fixed price income from Willis,Fire School,Draken et al is massive..hence the current mayor/government investment.
When the subsidies dry up is when the problems arise.

As seen in the frequent comings and goings of scheduled flights.After many,many years..it remains a staple diet of the three ‘A’s’..Amsterdam,Alicante and Aberdeen?

[onion]

I would say that the "fixed price" contracts provide the security.
Honey Badger, L159 or ALCA, take your pick.
We dont know the situation with the subsidies so I'm not going to comment.
What I can see is Logan have consolidates the aircraft at NCL likely with another E145 thus reducing the need for engineer support at MME and lowering their cost base. They ll also be hoping for an uplift on the ABZ out of NCL as MME is going 1 a day. MME to ABZ is usually the stronger route than NCL to ABZ. So this is really a way of putting off another operator coming onto the MME-ABZ route.
None of the routes Logan operated were really attempted properly.
Any UK or Ireland, (except for the likes of Newquay and Jersey), route that is operated by the likes of Eastern or Logan needs to be twice a day to provide a true alternative to the train or flights from NCL or LBA.
Ryanair and the like are a different kettle of fish.
If that were to happen moving forward then we could say that it's been tried and failed.
Belfast 4 times a week with the alternatives up and down the road is not going to work.

[highwideandugly]

Good summary Onion.

The other airport problem.,for everyone, is that there is not much choice of UK airlines these days!

[SWBKCB]

So this is really a way of putting off another operator coming onto the MME-ABZ route.

Originally Posted by highwideandugly

Good summary Onion. The other airport problem., for everyone, is that there is not much choice of UK airlines these days!

I was thinking the same - who? There's only Eastern.

[N707ZS]

Will it be groundhog day with Eastern back on the Aberdeen with the J-41.