Manchester-3

[BHX5DME]

Originally Posted by tictack67

Where HS2 in its new plan will open on 2029 meaning BHX to LON will be 52 mins. (mind you they promised that to Manchester, East Midlands Leeds and Scotland after it was funded)

BHX - LON will be as fast as 37 minutes and BHX are saying in a press release that BHX will effectively sit in London Transports Zone 5 with that quick travel time from BHX to Central London,

[Rutan16]

Originally Posted by BHX5DME

BHX - LON will be as fast as 37 minutes and BHX are saying in a press release that BHX will effectively sit in London Transports Zone 5 with that quick travel time from BHX to Central London,

That target will be missed as the line speed and proposed equipment is now 300 kilometres per hour and not the original target .

Equipment will need to be classic compatible ( thats narrower in plain speak) and the dynamic forces are poorer with weight distribution penalties and pendulum swings, than are achievable with the wider captive designs which push those forces beyond the axle and downwards for added adhesion.

Further the fares will negate much of the potential benefits especially if we look at those on the only other highspeed network into Kent . The premium over the conventional network is ridiculous today !

Overall I am supportive of HS2 indeed the entire line to Manchester but the current plan is an abject failure.

[zed3]

I cannot remember (!) is the HS2 line going via Heathrow... with a stop?

[TartinTon]

Originally Posted by zed3

I cannot remember (!) is the HS2 line going via Heathrow... with a stop?

No, it doesn't touch LHR as a very quick google search would tell you. It would still take you a minimum of 2 hours plus to get from BHX to LHR by train/tube but as this is the MAN thread it's not really relevant for here!!

[Rutan16]

Originally Posted by zed3

I cannot remember (!) is the HS2 line going via Heathrow... with a stop?

You will change to the Elizabeth line at Old Oak Common - indeed for several years , thats going to as close at you get to Central London on ANY service !

Its a massive rail junction and maintenance depot in West Acton just north of Wormwood Scrubs where the line passes the Great Western -Paddington and several freight only lines .
Through with usual lack of connected thinking the North London and Orbital London (London Overground) passes under 700ms to the southern end of the junction yet will not connect for passengers services whatsoever.

Another element of the fiasco we currently have.

I think we can park current HS2 proposals here and for a few years in relation to Manchester and until we do have a change of government and sight of a developed and deliverable national transport policy.

[chaps1954]

Don`t expect anything from Labour as they have no idea what to do.

[laviation]

HS3 is what is needed.

[kriskross]

Cannot see the point of any HS unless it goes to Scotland where a shorter journey would really benefit.

[EKBromsgrove]

Originally Posted by Navpi

Do the Brummies think HS2 will be good or bad for BHX?

Surely If you live in Birmingham but can be at Heathrow in not much more than hour with almost hourly frequencies everywhere and no doubt cheaper fares doesnt BHX become well a bit redundant?

It will be positive for the city overall, increasing demand for air connectivity. There will no doubt be some leakage of this to Heathrow - who knows the extent of this leakage. BHX will be busier than it is today though.

[Rutan16]

Originally Posted by EKBromsgrove

It will be positive for the city overall, increasing demand for air connectivity. There will no doubt be some leakage of this to Heathrow - who knows the extent of this leakage. BHX will be busier than it is today though.

How exactly the train will speed through the potential catchments such as Oxfordshire , Northants and Warwickshire, adds zero zilch to Birminghams potential .

[EKBromsgrove]

Originally Posted by Rutan16

How exactly the train will speed through the potential catchments such as Oxfordshire , Northants and Warwickshire, adds zero zilch to Birminghams potential .

To be clear - as a city or an airport?

[Sioltach Dubh Glas]

I'm sorry if I come across as pedantic, but could this thread please return to the subject title of "Manchester".

Thank you and every best wish to all for the New Year.

[MARK9263]

Agree....A very tedious thread drift

[Navpi]

Originally Posted by Sioltach Dubh Glas

I'm sorry if I come across as pedantic, but could this thread please return to the subject title of "Manchester".

Thank you and every best wish to all for the New Year.

Yes apologies, my fault i posted here as there are usually more Brummies on the Manchester thread than Birmingham.

I'll shall retreat to the naughty step.

[Navpi]

Do we actually know why T1 is now being mothballed when originally the plan was demolition of of pier C and a refurb to make one large global terminal ?

When was that decision made ?

The original 45m forecast capacity must now be in doubt ?

[TheSpiddalKid]

Originally Posted by Navpi

Do we actually know why T1 is now being mothballed when originally the plan was demolition of of pier C and a refurb to make one large global terminal ?

When was that decision made ?

The original 45m forecast capacity must now be in doubt ?

A core reason I have seen on another forum was that the numbers weren't justified in the short term to develop the T1 site. Then the costs associated with demolition owing to how much essential infrastructure is routed through T1 makes it uneconomic to consider until there is justification to redevelop the site. The better option in the short term is to mothball it until there is a need to develop T2 further.

[Manair6]

The plan was never to retain or refurbish T1 in any form- the entire purpose of the transformation programme is to replace T1 which is outdated, this is stated in the original planning application submitted in 2015.

The whole of T2 once finished will have a higher passenger capacity than the original T2 + T1 combined being capable of handling up to 35 million pax per annum alone.

T3 remains open for Ryanair, topping up MAN’s capacity over and above T2.

The stands on B pier will be split between some being walked from T3 and the rest being remote, C pier will also become remote stands.

Other than that there is no use for the site of T1 presently so it doesn’t make sense to spend a significant amount on demolition for a site that’s not going to be used anyway - similar to LHR T1 which is also mothballed.

[Asturias56]

Originally Posted by chaps1954

Don`t expect anything from Labour as they have no idea what to do.

as opposed to the current incumbents????

[chaps1954]

Well we know the Torries are crap at moment but don`t expect anything else from Labour or Libs

[Rutan16]

Originally Posted by chaps1954

Well we know the Torries are crap at moment but don`t expect anything else from Labour or Libs

A stable administration with intent to deliver through will be restrained by the very many minefields deliberately planted .

Main goals must be restoring confidence in the delivery of health care ( btw I don’t mind some private provision provided free at the point of use is maintained) . Correctly financing regional government councils and social care . And developing a proper industrial and indeed financial policy.

And a deliverable housing strategy, not a scatter gun approach to market will provide .

And a return to constructive foreign policies and co-operating with partners .

First term work .