Manchester-3
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Even in the days of BA schedule dominance and pooling of services with Air Canada the Toronto service frequencies in the winter would be no more than three per week , sometimes just once a week as stop off of a Heathrow Tristar flight prior to finally canning the connection completely.
Some years way back BA would terminate the flights both New York and Toronto in Prestwick in deep winter deploying a rather rare Viscount 701 as a feeder .
BA retained two of these dinosaurs at Prestwick for a very long time, their main function being to fly feeder flights onto Aberdeen and Belfast on a BA flight number ( as opposed the BE code)
The list of charter carriers over the years mainly summer is quite long
Off the top of my soleil burned head
Nationair
Ontario
British Midland
British Caledonian
Dan Air ( yes with a 707)
Club something or other
Worldways
Pacific Western
CP Air
Wardair
Thomas Cook
Air 2000/ Canada 3000
Royal
Zoom
Might have missed a few idk
Cant remember if KT ( British Airtours ) flew any on their own batt but may have subbed for BA
In the heady days
Wardair flew between Manchester and Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton and even Winnipeg - the last three are shadow of those days on the long haul
Winnipeg has no long haul at all whilst Edmonton retains just KLM to Amsterdam a legacy from their long gone CP-Air partnership days.
Calgary has seen Air Canada long haul presence in decline for some years , I believe from the Northern winter timetable just Heathrow remains over the Atlantic - Pressure from Westjet taking its final toll imho.
Like Edmonton KLM retains a presence again as legacy of that long gone CP-Air partnership.
For much of the heady days of Wife’s and daughters traffic Air Canada weren’t in the market at all.
Historically Air Canada commitments within the northwest market place haven’t been at all spectacular.
Air Transat do provide an adequate Toronto connection for twelve months of the year through their commercial decision to end much/ most of the Central and Pacific seaboard operations from Europe is imho regrettable.
This carrier operates a dual hub with UK and English speaking services from Pearson , whilst Francophone operations remain at Trudeau ( or as I recall it Dorval) - not a fan of that Canadian dynasty
Another fact is many many Canadians tend to follow the birds to the Caribbean in the winter rather than to similar European climes ( in fewer numbers that do each year as family ties continue to dilute)
Not sure they will make much/any money in November in Edinburgh, cepting they may have a few corporate golfing customers.
The days of CP, WD, BA, and/or AC same day summer departures from the 80s are long gone never to return.
Last edited by Rutan16; 8th Sep 2023 at 11:11.
Don't forget Odyssey International! :-)
The VFR market from the UK to Canada has collapsed to a shadow of what it was in the 1970's-1980's heyday. Today, we must look more to demand being driven by Canada's substantial tourism appeal, though there is a ready market for that. Toronto is a mainstream English-speaking business destination too.
The VFR market from the UK to Canada has collapsed to a shadow of what it was in the 1970's-1980's heyday. Today, we must look more to demand being driven by Canada's substantial tourism appeal, though there is a ready market for that. Toronto is a mainstream English-speaking business destination too.
Missing from the above, FlyGlobespan and Crown Air, a DC8-52 operation in the early 90s which did two summers at Manchester and Gatwick before never being seen again. They changed to 06 departures mid way through the day one day and the DC8 came roaring up the hill in a cloud of black smoke and barely cleared the localiser on take-off.
And yes, the BA VC10 service for many years was JFK-YYZ-PIK-MAN daily even through most of the winter. It connected on to a VC10 service running into Jamaica and the Caribbean at JFK.
Airlines will go where they make money. AC might have different views on where to fly in the winter to use their aircraft to generate the best return. Unless you have spare aircraft and crews sitting about, Manchester is probably a less attractive bet than many others.
And yes, the BA VC10 service for many years was JFK-YYZ-PIK-MAN daily even through most of the winter. It connected on to a VC10 service running into Jamaica and the Caribbean at JFK.
Airlines will go where they make money. AC might have different views on where to fly in the winter to use their aircraft to generate the best return. Unless you have spare aircraft and crews sitting about, Manchester is probably a less attractive bet than many others.
With their short summer operation AC are essentially just there to spoil the party, mores the pity, rather than looking to serve the Midlands and Northwest market year round.
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I'm not sure what size on the international stage means, nor how it is operationalised. The number I'm fairly sure Air Canada is looking for is likely number of seats to be sold at their target price and target yield. I'm not sure 'we feel important' is a hugely important metric for them.
Moreover, given Air Canada as an experience is only slightly better than swimming to Canada, I'm not sure why you would be desperate to have their service?
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Missing from the above, FlyGlobespan and Crown Air, a DC8-52 operation in the early 90s which did two summers at Manchester and Gatwick before never being seen again. They changed to 06 departures mid way through the day one day and the DC8 came roaring up the hill in a cloud of black smoke and barely cleared the localiser on take-off.
And yes, the BA VC10 service for many years was JFK-YYZ-PIK-MAN daily even through most of the winter. It connected on to a VC10 service running into Jamaica and the Caribbean at JFK.
Airlines will go where they make money. AC might have different views on where to fly in the winter to use their aircraft to generate the best return. Unless you have spare aircraft and crews sitting about, Manchester is probably a less attractive bet than many others.
And yes, the BA VC10 service for many years was JFK-YYZ-PIK-MAN daily even through most of the winter. It connected on to a VC10 service running into Jamaica and the Caribbean at JFK.
Airlines will go where they make money. AC might have different views on where to fly in the winter to use their aircraft to generate the best return. Unless you have spare aircraft and crews sitting about, Manchester is probably a less attractive bet than many others.
Own memories were something like
BA53x something to JFK via Prestwick
BA46x something to Montreal and Toronto via Prestwick
A weekly service ran beyond JFK to the Caribbean and terminated in Georgetown in Guyana operated with a std VC10
BA later split the Canadian ops with a separate and lower frequency service direct to Montreal and brought in the 747 to Manchester at the same time.
Montreal was finally dropped completely.
For the most part the weekly scheduled dropped to a single near daily link to Prestwick alternating between JFK and Canada with a feed available on the non op days to the alternate ( Including the Prestwick Air Canada operated flights )
And chaps thanks I expected that I’d miss a few.
Birmingham however did have a short programme of via US to Toronto ops with the 757 for memory.
Last edited by Rutan16; 8th Sep 2023 at 14:22.
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The problem for England inbound tourism is that nowhere is big on the international stage apart from for London. Yes, if you're a footie follower then Manchestet has two of the biggest names, anc if you're of the right vintage a decent rock / pop music reputation. What ought to help Manchester is the location of Liverpool, witth a rather more prominent (historic) music scene, a fairly well known waterfront and a high profile football team (Everton?).
With their short summer operation AC are essentially just there to spoil the party, mores the pity, rather than looking to serve the Midlands and Northwest market year round.
With their short summer operation AC are essentially just there to spoil the party, mores the pity, rather than looking to serve the Midlands and Northwest market year round.
Music agree to differ - Joy Division, New Order, Oasis , “ bespectacled stair carpets”- look up the euphemism here, James, Smiths, The orange haired geezer ( lives in Milan) ,Happy Mondays ( thief’s and robbers admittedly), Stone Roses, Charletians, 808 State, Mock Turtles, The Fall, Electronic ( partly) Paris Angels Chemical Bros, The Verve, ( the entire Madchester scene), the Hacienda , Factory Records and for the classical buff Halle Orchestra .
Liverpool
Gerry and the Pacemakers, Frankie Vaughan, The Searchers and band the name I forget maybe insect related
Oh and never forget the magnificent Cilla.
More modern Sugababes and Atomic Kitten and that tragically dead early tranny Pete Burns
A walk down City one and the docks takes maybe a few hours at most .
Don't take this too seriously by the way.
Spoil what party? They offer summer peak knowing the seats will sell, if they could see strong performance beyond that, they'd offer it, the UK is a pretty core market and they no longer have the option to sell MAN via BMI over LHR. I was genuinely surprised that both Air Canada and Westjet offered B787 service to EDI this summer but it seems to be the function of a strong pull with Edinburgh as an inbound attraction, far enough away from London to stand on it's own. I suspect MAN may well be a A321N option when they arrive.
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Football colour correct city not so much
Music agree to differ - Joy Division, New Order, Oasis , bespectacled stair carpets- look up the euphemism here, James, Smiths, The orange haired geezer ( lives in Milan) ,Happy Mondays ( thiefs and robbers admittedly), Stone Roses, Charletians, 808 State, Mock Turtles, The Fall, Electronic ( partly) Paris Angels Chemical Bros, The Verve, ( the entire Madchester scene), the Hacienda , Factory Records and for the classical buff Halle Orchestra .
Liverpool
Gerry and the Pacemakers, Frankie Vaughan, The Searchers and band the name I forget maybe insect related
Oh and never forget the magnificent Cilla.
More modern Sugababes and Atomic Kitten and that tragically dead early tranny Pete Burns
A walk down City one and the docks takes maybe a few hours at most .
Don't take this too seriously by the way.
Music agree to differ - Joy Division, New Order, Oasis , bespectacled stair carpets- look up the euphemism here, James, Smiths, The orange haired geezer ( lives in Milan) ,Happy Mondays ( thiefs and robbers admittedly), Stone Roses, Charletians, 808 State, Mock Turtles, The Fall, Electronic ( partly) Paris Angels Chemical Bros, The Verve, ( the entire Madchester scene), the Hacienda , Factory Records and for the classical buff Halle Orchestra .
Liverpool
Gerry and the Pacemakers, Frankie Vaughan, The Searchers and band the name I forget maybe insect related
Oh and never forget the magnificent Cilla.
More modern Sugababes and Atomic Kitten and that tragically dead early tranny Pete Burns
A walk down City one and the docks takes maybe a few hours at most .
Don't take this too seriously by the way.
.
Thank you Alan Freeman....I 😁 (more modern sugarbabes?)
Agreed Manchester can be done in a day if you are nosey enough to alight on its doorstep, but there is bit more to it than the docks if you are from, by way of example the US woke generation, especially as it beginning to look more like Manhattan with all the bloody towers.
Might not chime with us crusty old gits but that generation are more interested in culture, than old relics from a bygone age, that said MAN is still a potential gateway to N Wales, Chester, Liverpool Yorkshire Dales, And of course the Lakes.
A quick look at a US tour itinerary for 2024 will include those places, but as was said , London is the be all and end all for Dwight Diddly Bom Bom and the rest of the silvertops, despite being a bit squalid beneath the veneer in the brochure.
Well done for the Oasis connection. Continuing on a US theme Noel Gallagher has given Manchester more publicity on his recent mega sold out US tour than VisitBritain ever could. Likewise Johnny Marr re The Smiths.
You only have to tap into American yoof culture thru eg TIMEOUT etc to see that a younger generation are more interested in visiting Manchester for reasons that might escape the majority here.
Last edited by Navpi; 8th Sep 2023 at 18:21.
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One of the airlines missed out is Laker which offered LGW-MAN-YYZ until Skytrain services started.
From memory MAN-PIK-JFK was BA537/8 including for routings when PIK was dropped.
MAN-PIK-YUL-YYZ was BA648/9. The inclusion of YUL was because of a Canadian government statute which made it mandatory. BA 607 sounds familiar but I cannot remember which routing it was.
From memory MAN-PIK-JFK was BA537/8 including for routings when PIK was dropped.
MAN-PIK-YUL-YYZ was BA648/9. The inclusion of YUL was because of a Canadian government statute which made it mandatory. BA 607 sounds familiar but I cannot remember which routing it was.
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One of the airlines missed out is Laker which offered LGW-MAN-YYZ until Skytrain services started.
From memory MAN-PIK-JFK was BA537/8 including for routings when PIK was dropped.
MAN-PIK-YUL-YYZ was BA648/9. The inclusion of YUL was because of a Canadian government statute which made it mandatory. BA 607 sounds familiar but I cannot remember which routing it was.
From memory MAN-PIK-JFK was BA537/8 including for routings when PIK was dropped.
MAN-PIK-YUL-YYZ was BA648/9. The inclusion of YUL was because of a Canadian government statute which made it mandatory. BA 607 sounds familiar but I cannot remember which routing it was.
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Figured I would ask this here as you probably all know the airport like the back of your hands....
I'm arriving on the late shuttle from LHR and have a booking at the Holiday Inn.
How long will it take to walk from T3 to the Holiday Inn, and is there some kind of covered walkway through T1 or do I walk outside?
As I arrive late, I don't want to be chasing my taiil...so I figured I would ask people in the know!
Thanks in advance.
I'm arriving on the late shuttle from LHR and have a booking at the Holiday Inn.
How long will it take to walk from T3 to the Holiday Inn, and is there some kind of covered walkway through T1 or do I walk outside?
As I arrive late, I don't want to be chasing my taiil...so I figured I would ask people in the know!
Thanks in advance.
Figured I would ask this here as you probably all know the airport like the back of your hands....
I'm arriving on the late shuttle from LHR and have a booking at the Holiday Inn.
How long will it take to walk from T3 to the Holiday Inn, and is there some kind of covered walkway through T1 or do I walk outside?
As I arrive late, I don't want to be chasing my taiil...so I figured I would ask people in the know!
Thanks in advance.
I'm arriving on the late shuttle from LHR and have a booking at the Holiday Inn.
How long will it take to walk from T3 to the Holiday Inn, and is there some kind of covered walkway through T1 or do I walk outside?
As I arrive late, I don't want to be chasing my taiil...so I figured I would ask people in the know!
Thanks in advance.
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Snoopy
We did some consultancy work on your hotel. You may find breakfast interesting.
Cheers
Mr Mac
We did some consultancy work on your hotel. You may find breakfast interesting.
Cheers
Mr Mac
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Yeah, mid 1980s for Poundstretchers. Air Canada arrived in 1985 coupled with PIK and latterly GLA. The one thing that pleasantly surprised me, was that given the old VFR market passed on and their kids have many more options, that EDI saw the return of both Air Canada and even WestJet, mirroring DUB on a smaller scale. Also remember AC has no STAR partner to feed their LHR flights from MAN which was partly why they left years ago, abandoning GLA/MAN to feed via LHR with bmi.
Last edited by Skipness One Foxtrot; 18th Sep 2023 at 13:50.