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Old 24th Sep 2023, 08:31
  #3101 (permalink)  
 
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Well here's a suprise......

https://news.sky.com/story/northern-...rstands-12968I

It's
' actually very preditable BUT a double whammy.

Personally I was always 50/50 on HS2 anyway, was always dubiousregarding completion.

Personally I would have preferred investment was spent on a West /East corridor and better connectivity to Manchester Airport. Investment in transport infastructure in the north has been non existent for decade after decade from both parties of government. The Tories never invest as they see no political capital, Labour never invest because they see their vote guaranteed, it comes down to begging for crumbs from Whitehall who are ambivalent.

"Please sir can i have some more".

Personally I preferred better connections to North Wales, Cumbria, Yorkshire and the East Coast to Manchester and by defintion to the Airport. These have been decimated pre and post Covid with the shambolic state of our regional railways especially, Northern Railway.

There should be services to Manchester Airport from all the large cities across the North and the North Midlands given how the terminal is ideally nestled slap bang in the middle of the terminals.

Improvements in these areas have all been knocked off one by one, scrapped on the false premise that they were spending money on HS2.

"don't worry lads and lasses you are getting a shiny new train set as we will spend the money on that instead".

Some might say this decapitates The North as a whole.
Manchester Airport was due to get a brand new station so expect a lame pr memo to say they are disappointed rather than gloves off outrage.

Nobody holds anyone to account at any level, it's abysmal.



Last edited by Navpi; 24th Sep 2023 at 14:37.
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Old 24th Sep 2023, 09:09
  #3102 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Navpi

Some might say this decapitates The North as a whole.
Indeed, along with the East Midlands.

But never mind, Solihull will become a North London suburb, Warwickshire will become a 'Home County" and BHX can be rebranded 'London (Elmdon) Airport'.

Levelling up my arse!
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Old 24th Sep 2023, 11:25
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Levelling up.... to Watford....
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Old 24th Sep 2023, 12:04
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Originally Posted by laviation
Levelling up.... to Watford....
To Birmingham :-)
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Old 24th Sep 2023, 13:26
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Personally I preferred better connections to North Wales, Cumbria, Yorkshire and the East Coast to Manchester and by defintion to the Airport. These have been decimated pre and post Covid with the shambolic state of our regional railways especially, Northern.

There should be services to Manchester Airport from all the large cities across the North and the North Midlands given how the airport is ideally nestled slap bang in the middle of the terminals.
I accept that the inter-regional train services are crap, but what cities does MAN need links to?
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Old 24th Sep 2023, 14:53
  #3106 (permalink)  
 
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I do wonder how this will effect Birmingham airport although i accept the premise the whole line has now become totally fragmented and totally devalued to the point that it's hardly worth bothering.

Birmingham to Euston salvages something , but a terminus at Old Oak Common ? I despair.

They are effectively now wasting the money already spent !

Do the Birmingham parish think this will effect the airport which seems to growing it long gaul offering rapidly with a really on point route development team.
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Old 24th Sep 2023, 15:04
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
I accept that the inter-regional train services are crap, but what cities does MAN need links to?
I think Manchester heavy rail is somewhat constrained in the Southern corridor .There are really just three lines converging on Piccadilly with commuter, London and Birmingham intercity traffic and another through the Hope Valley plus container and bulk freight trains to boot.

The resultant current traffic flows terminating at the airport are very sub optimal inho

Imho the airport would be better serviced with dedicated a high frequency shuttle to East Didsbury Piccadilly, Oxford Road and Victoria with paths to York (half hourly) Preston ( half hourly) and Liverpool via Chats Moss very twenty minutes .And an hourly Style to Wilmslow
I would actually remove the through Scottish services but scheduled cross platform connections at Preston where viable.

The Northwest corridor needs Full electrification from Stalybridge Huddersfield and Leeds to Church Fenton , York to Scarborough .
Ideally a link from the airport to Ashley and also the western Metro line round Wythenshawe.

The aim would be a more reliable and predictable service along the Style line

Not rail related however I am of the opinion that a frequent Airport, Warrington, Runcorn, Speke and Liverpool coach service needs to be restored soonest.
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Old 24th Sep 2023, 15:06
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB
I accept that the inter-regional train services are crap, but what cities does MAN need links to?
it doesn't its towns across N Wales, Cumbria, and the East Coast who have all been crying out for better connectivity not worse.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...h-19855071.amp

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-65558316

They have only just saved N Wales services which were also threatened.





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Old 24th Sep 2023, 15:08
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Well was waiting for a friend off local train and Nottingham to Manchester and Liverpool train arrived at Stockport as 6 car and was heaving at 19.30 last night so business is there
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Old 24th Sep 2023, 15:15
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Originally Posted by Navpi
I do wonder how this will effect Birmingham airport although i accept the premise the whole line has now become totally fragmented and totally devalued to the point that it's hardly worth bothering.

Birmingham to Euston salvages something , but a terminus at Old Oak Common ? I despair.

They are effectively now wasting the money already spent !

Do the Birmingham parish think this will effect the airport which seems to growing it long gaul offering rapidly with a really on point route development team.
This is a last roll of the die from a zombie administration along with the so call roll back on certain climate policies earlier in the week.

Might have a majority in the house however they probably have little if any parliamentary time to delivery ANYTHING so its A matter of political grandstanding and vapour from Sunack.
Sunacks tenancy in No 10 and indeed within his own party is tenuous at best.

I do expect the next administration to be looking at all sorts of domestic issues and time frames within their first parliament # Target 2030 will slip anyway (always was going too but 2035 will be retained. The HS2 timetable and costing will be reevaluated sure . Euston will be completed . However north of Birmingham the timetable will need to be updated - Manchester must still be the goal imho however 2035 -2040 is a very long time into the future .
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Old 24th Sep 2023, 19:26
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Originally Posted by Rutan16
This is a last roll of the die from a zombie administration along with the so call roll back on certain climate policies earlier in the week.

Might have a majority in the house however they probably have little if any parliamentary time to delivery ANYTHING so its A matter of political grandstanding and vapour from Sunack.
Sunacks tenancy in No 10 and indeed within his own party is tenuous at best.

I do expect the next administration to be looking at all sorts of domestic issues and time frames within their first parliament # Target 2030 will slip anyway (always was going too but 2035 will be retained. The HS2 timetable and costing will be reevaluated sure . Euston will be completed . However north of Birmingham the timetable will need to be updated - Manchester must still be the goal imho however 2035 -2040 is a very long time into the future .
Somehow i doubt it.
Now Boris has gone , Labour know they can now put a donkey up in the North, i honestly cannot see any incentive to commit. They too will hide behind costs.

Andy Burnham has said Labour WILL BUILD IT... given he despises Labour in London this may be more about a politics playbook to "try" and twist their arm.

https://www.bdonline.co.uk/news/labo...125237.article

I appreciate we are talking lots of politics here BUT its a political decison that affects The North and indeed Manchester Airport which is at its epi centre.


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Old 24th Sep 2023, 19:41
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Originally Posted by Navpi
I do wonder how this will effect Birmingham airport although i accept the premise the whole line has now become totally fragmented and totally devalued to the point that it's hardly worth bothering.

Birmingham to Euston salvages something , but a terminus at Old Oak Common ? I despair.

They are effectively now wasting the money already spent !

Do the Birmingham parish think this will effect the airport which seems to growing it long gaul offering rapidly with a really on point route development team.
The advantage BHX has over MAN where rail connectivity is concerned is that Birmingham International sits on the WCML and has Cross Country and Avanti long distance services across much of central and northern England.

When I had cause to travel to and from International a few weeks ago I was amazed by how many air passengers were arriving at BHX by rail. I am not sure how close to BHX the new HS2 station is going to be but it'll only be much use to North Londoners using BHX as a departure airport rather than LHR. I can't really see many doing that!
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Old 25th Sep 2023, 09:13
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Originally Posted by ATNotts
The advantage BHX has over MAN where rail connectivity is concerned is that Birmingham International sits on the WCML and has Cross Country and Avanti long distance services across much of central and northern England.

When I had cause to travel to and from International a few weeks ago I was amazed by how many air passengers were arriving at BHX by rail. I am not sure how close to BHX the new HS2 station is going to be but it'll only be much use to North Londoners using BHX as a departure airport rather than LHR. I can't really see many doing that!
HS2 problem on the southern core in its current form imho is the lack one intermediate parkway station somewhere around Finmere area .This with a massive carpark connection to the East -west Varsity line and buses to Brackley, Banbury and Aylesbury would bring significant improvements and new markets back onto the rail network . As it is none stop Ealing - Birmingham it’s missing a beat .
I would then consider half hourly stop at this parkway and then none stop to final destination eventually Euston

Current designs incorporate a spur onto the Varsity line ( primarily for maintenance and diversion purposes) towards Bletchley through I don’t know if the line Finmere to Bletchley is provisioned for the wider captive HS2 gauge vehicle clearances.

A further problem is Curzon Street as a terminal station where does that connect to the wider Midlands network without the northern and ( already shelved eastern spurs)

Bit by bit the concept and reasoning has been systematically broken and each delay/shelving saves little in the now but adds massively down the line ( pun intended) .
With phase 1 contracts the contractors are already Adding to the cost delay and stage payment risk with each application. Politicians have no idea how contracting works in the main.

Sorry only tangentially related to aviation but of some relevance.

I will repeat to current administration is playing for time their legislative programmes are binned and they could call an election anytime within THIS parliamentary term .

Last edited by Rutan16; 26th Sep 2023 at 07:57.
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Old 25th Sep 2023, 12:22
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" As it is none stop Ealing - Birmingham it’s missing a beat ."

That's the point - no-stop ...... Rail planners often moan that they introduce new trains & kit to speed things up and then intermediate stops howl until they 're connected - thus negating the advantages o the original idea.

IIRC the original W region Intercity 125 service was supposed to be London - Bristol and London Cardiff non-stop - but then they added Bath, Swindon, Reading.........
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Old 25th Sep 2023, 13:38
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Have FR yet to release their summer 23 flights from MAN. Was hoping Paphos would be back.
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Old 25th Sep 2023, 18:26
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Originally Posted by Asturias56
" As it is none stop Ealing - Birmingham it’s missing a beat ."

That's the point - no-stop ...... Rail planners often moan that they introduce new trains & kit to speed things up and then intermediate stops howl until they 're connected - thus negating the advantages o the original idea.

IIRC the original W region Intercity 125 service was supposed to be London - Bristol and London Cardiff non-stop - but then they added Bath, Swindon, Reading.........
The IC125 Great Western services replaced the pullman diesels with a half hourly throughout the day operation .

If we look at France and Japan in particular they set a number similar large parkway style interchanges with skip services in the case of SNCF at around 80 miles enroute and massively reduced Paris - Lyon block times

Now true later SNCF TGVs are now using using conventional rail to extend coverage and the traditional Corrail network is oft in a poorer state than much of the current UK network.

Some of the worst trains I use are the Transilien outer suburban le de France trains they are terrible dirty graffiti and often cancelled . Nought to do with this thread through

Last edited by Rutan16; 25th Sep 2023 at 18:39.
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Old 25th Sep 2023, 18:37
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Not rail related however I am of the opinion that a frequent Airport, Warrington, Runcorn, Speke and Liverpool coach service needs to be restored soonest.

There is an hourly bus service from Warrington - Lymm-Altrincham-Airport, the X5
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Old 25th Sep 2023, 19:10
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Originally Posted by Mr A Tis
There is an hourly bus service from Warrington - Lymm-Altrincham-Airport, the X5
The problem with this services is that is an extension of the local Warrington to Altrincham service and has no real capacity for passenger luggage - and also is rather slow.
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Old 26th Sep 2023, 21:36
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EIs July LF for the MAN base was 70% according to chatter on Irish discussion boards, 1 point up on July 2022, but one must remember that the A321 was replaced with an A333.
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Old 26th Sep 2023, 22:30
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Originally Posted by Una Due Tfc
EIs July LF for the MAN base was 70% according to chatter on Irish discussion boards, 1 point up on July 2022, but one must remember that the A321 was replaced with an A333.
The JFK route is also hauling significant volumes of cargo too.
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